Noisy ECM furnace draft inducer ball bearing - FIXED - how to replace the ball bearing
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Rather than replace a noisy draft inducer with an expensive new inducer ($800-$1000 just for NEW parts), I decided to try to replace the 608 ball bearing. The bearing was less than $3 online. I replaced the original double shielded bearing with a double sealed bearing. Hopefully, this will do a better job of resisting water penetration. The inner race diameter of the new bearing seemed to be oversized but I failed to take an accurate measurement of the shaft and bearing. The bearing was a slip fit onto the motor shaft when it should have been a press fit. This is a popular skateboard bearing size but try to avoid skateboard bearings.
Be sure to check out my original video showing how I simply put a few drops of oil into the failing bearing to get my furnace running temporarily for a week+ until I could receive the replacement bearing bit.ly/2Ppmok4
I just successfully replaced the bearings on my ecm motor. It was a model 5sme44jg2006d. Steps were almost identical to what was shown in the video except the motor only had 3 solder points.
To remove the bearings from the shaft I placed the shaft vertically in a vise (loosely) with the bearing resting on top of the jaws and hit the shaft out with a mallet. After the front bearing, magnet, and rear bearing are removed I then placed the rotor magnet on top of the jaws of the vise and hit the shaft back into it. Be sure to measure the location of the magnet on the shaft before removing it so you know how far to hit it back in.
The bearings I got were also loose on the shaft. Instead of putting knurls on the shaft, I used loctite retaining compound which seems to be made specifically for this type of scenario. It's been running like new for a couple weeks now, so far so good. Thanks!
I would like to add that bacteria grows in the water collection box and should be flushed at the end of the season and either sucked dry or add a fair amount of vinegar for the off-season. Often the water will back-up and flood the differential diaphragms and put you in the cold. Keep in mind a repairman will not clean and drain those switches...he will throw-on new and charge you a few hundred.
Thank you for the video. I appreciate that you shred this. I prefer it when you use a tripod mounted camera. When that is not possible, please slow down the camera movement, and pause on the object you are talking about.
Thanks for sharing. I would not have tried otherwise. I only removed half of the assembly, seemed easier than removing the whole thing. The most tedious part was de-soldering the board. I easily removed the little fan bracket by slipping in the blade of a pocket knife. The bearing did not look damaged. I almost did not replace it, but since I got a bearing puller just for this project, I replaced it anyway with a 608 rs2 I believe, rubber shielded, specifically for mechanical purposes. The one in there was a 608z, but with metal shields. Probably why the inner ring isn't the same size. Metal shield bearings on skateboards are 608zz. Putting it all back together was a piece of cake, except the nozzle on my can of sealant was broken and I had a hard time getting it out properly, but it worked out. I waiting a couple of hours for it to dry before running the furnace. Cures in 24 hours but I don't think it will leak. Works like a charm. Ran a couple of cycles and so far that noise hasn't come back. Thank you! It cost me $70 (sealant, iron that I didn't have, bearings, bearing puller...) and was quoted $1,400 for the job!!!! Another HVAC co was taking $280 to show up, then $150 per hour, and would probably have quote me another $1200 to replace the entire assembly.
The rattle still comes back but only at high rpms. So we increase the temp gradually. It works a lot better though. Maybe the other bearing?
Thanks for your comment. With the 608 rs2 bearing did you also have the knurl the shaft and loctite it to get it to fit correctly or was that bearing the correct size for the shaft? Thanks.
@@andrewsnider4098 I used loctite, but even if it were loose I don't think it would be an issue with the spring holding it. I did not see that spring in your video actually, like a spacer/spring against the bearing
I have 2 Trane XV 90s about 21 years old. The problem I had was a long run for the exhaust vent and lots of water coming back into the furnace which all drained through the bottom of the inducer motor. To further complicate and prevent draining there is an elbow coming off the bottom of the induction blower that constricts to about 3/16" and is easily clogged. Several years ago after getting tired of cleaning this elbow and hearing the water in the bottom of the induction fan housing, I put a full sized T in the vertical run of the exhaust vent as close as I could to the furnace with the one port facing down. I reduced it down to 3/4" and then put an end cap on it with a 1/4" hole drilled in it. This drilled end cap is centered over the top of the drainage vent piping on the furnace. At the time I did it only on the main floor furnace. It solved the problem of all the water coming back into the furnace.
As I have a bearing problem with the induction fan on the other furnace I just did the same to the exhaust on no. 2 furnace. Just as his in the video, the front bearing is rusty, no doubt due to water coming back into the furnace from the exhaust vent.
I don't have a lot of water entering because my exhaust line is slanted downward as it travels out of the house and is a short vertical run and modest run to outside. I recall this being mentioned in the manual.
Hopefully you put a condensate trap on that drain that you installed. Otherwise you’re blowing carbon monoxide into the furnace area. Which is potentially lethal.
My motor has had (in the past) a fairly high pitched sound (started from 5years old) in past years that would go away if you manually moved the motor slightly changing the alignment (sits on rubber pads). This noise has NOT been a problem for last several years. Today a "NEW" sound (different lower sound) much louder noise, like something hitting rapidly /almost grinding. This could go away if you twisted the motor (up or down and held it there) manually but with a fair bit of force but noise returned as soon as I "STARTED" to release the force. I dont know what is causing this, what do you think it is? The draft inducer motor is a Genteq 5SME44JG2006D (Carrier 58MVC080-F-1--14 furnace was installed in Dec 2011)
Great video! I wasn’t able to tear into mine as I needed the heat every day. Why do these things always fail in November and not March? I got a new inducer installed but will replace the bearings and put it up for sale to recoup some of the cost.
I have the same inducer motor assembly and the same code, but the bearings feel perfect. Any idea of what else it could be?
BTW 608 bearings are the same size used in skateboard wheels. I've had to replace that bearing on my work furnace. One thing to be careful about is, most skateboard bearings have plastic/nylon bearing cages and the bearing on my work inducer motor gets hot.
Thank you for the videos!
thanks for your video. i fixed my motor bearing just as you described. the inducer motor is like new. Huge saving
glad you were able to do it! I hope you subscribe to my channel and give me a thumbs up! Thanks.
Question:
How many hours did it take the first time for disassembly and re install?
Good job! Looks like taking off the old bearing is the hardest part.
Bearing not too bad but getting the circuit board off will be challenging for most without soldering skill or desoldering equipment
@@YuDaMan correct me if missed something. The bearing is on the other end of the shaft opposite to the circuit board. Could you remove the bearing without having to remove the circuit board? Also, do you recall the size of the bearing? Thx
@@hnng3919 The endcap covering the bearing is held on by screws that are underneath the circuit board. Removing the circuit board is definitely necessary.
Great video and thorough explanation! Thanks!
Thanks for making the video! Can someone please provide information on which bearing puller they used that would work for this job (without having to use a vice to create enough room for the puller to grab the bearing)? Would any high temperature RTV work (auto parts store)? Should the push on fastener be replaced? If so, what size should I order? Thanks again for all of the great information and comments. Fingers crossed that my unit will survive the surgery.
Did you find a good bearing puller?
The noise gradually came back the day after doing this repair. Turns out the motor was sagging causing the fan wheel to rub inside the assembly. I lifted the motor less than 1/4 inch and the noise disappeared. The motor weighs 6 pounds and overtime, caused the fan wheel to spin sideways. That's all it was. Hope this helps other people.
Haha I just saw your follow-up reply. How did you secure the motor 1/4" higher to prevent the noise? Did your bearings look ok or was it still worth replacing the bearing? Thanks.
@@andrewsnider4098 the bearing looked fine actually. Since I got in there and had everything to do the job I just replaced it. I lifted the motor with a stick for a while to make sure that's what it was. It worked for a while then starting down it again only for a second when kicking in. I removed the stick to lower it, a couple weeks ago, and haven't heard it again. It's also very cold right now which might have an effect on the rubber spacers.
@@sucemacouille ok thanks for your help!
Our now 10 year old Carrier Infinity Series was making a load high pitched noise last year. When I went to check it out I noticed that moving the motor would silence it for at least a few days only for it to come back. Now this year I hear it again - went up and moved it back and forth and now it is quiet for the time being. The motor is a Genteq 5SME44JG2006D. When it make the noise you can hear it outside in the back yard coming thru the vents in the attic! Too bad it's getting cold out now cause I would like to change the bearings myself! We will see what happens......
Michael Trager
Did you replace the bearings and did it solve the high pitch noise? Just thought I would ask before I replace the bearings. My motor makes the same high pitch noise but it does spin freely.
Thanks
Paul
@@paulkarisny5575 Hi Paul, No I did not replace the bearings or motor because the last time I was up there I managed to stop the noise by moving the assembly back and forth and so far that noise has never returned:) Previously doing this the noise eventually came back but this time so far it has not. It has been fine the whole winter so far.
I was thinking of purchasing a whole new assembly but they weren't cheap and it was hard to find. Haven't called Carrier on this yet either.
@@michaeltrager4381 I have the same Genteq motor. When you say that you moved the assembly back and forth, did you have to tighten any screws or hold it in a certain position to get the noise to stop? Thanks.
Anyone watching this video should know, the reason that the circuit board is soldered on and the job is so tedious is because the manufacturer didn't design this motor with the intent to replace the bearings. The intent is to replace the the inducer motor assembly and be done with it. Also there is a very good chance if you have this heater, the heat exchanger is bad. Carrier/Bryant had a design flaw that caused the heat exchanger to prematurely fail which means it is unsafe to operate. Google search your model number to be certain or have a qualified dealer check for you. If you do have a defective heat exchanger, the manufacturer will prorate your warranty with a credit towards a new heater or give you a warranty part.❗Don't wait until the warranty runs out the heaters are not safe to operate❗
I thought I had a bad bearing in my carrier infinity inducer motor, but have determined the the main blower motor is making a intermittent high pitched whine (g#5 note). I "think" it's related to the module, but not sure. Anyone?
For those of us that are clueless about such things, can you go into more detail about the 5 solder joints ?
they are shown at 8:20 .... three electrical connections but 5 solder joints electrically connecting the board to the motor windings. The only way to remove the board so you have access to the bearing is to undo those connections by removing the solder. This takes certain skill depending on the tools you have to remove solder.
Believe it or not I have a Carrier that's 36 years old and is now doing this i have no other issues other than that I was looking to replace it however if I can save a buck I will.
You can also but complete used inducers on ebay. Glad you found my video to be helpful. Be sure to LIKE and Subscribe. That will really help me! THANKS!!!!
I am thinking to bite the bullet and do the repair myself, not ready to spend 4 grands for a new heater.
Few questions:
1) What kind of oil you used to lubricate the bearing in your temporary fix, I saw your other video but may be I missed the info.
2) What kind of RTV Sealent you ended up using for the blower chamber?
3) at 14:45 you speak of two added seals, what type of grease and what type of silicone O-ring you used there?
4) The rubber sealed bearing for the motor shaft, does it have to be any specific temperature rated ( I am assuming this motor moves hot air from the furnace, so the assembly will get pretty hot)?
i don't recall a lot of details since this was quite awhile ago but don't overthink it. 1. bearing are pre-lubricated so I left them alone. 2. there was a special GE RTV that was recommended in the operating manual.
3. don't recall anything about those seals 4. air is not as hot as you think. it's combustion gas venting thru PVC pipe. I doubt the bearing is in the main airstream
Good luck and be sure to LIKE and subscribe!
GE RTV 6700 sealant
These bearings are the same as a premium quality skateboard bearing (no joke). You can buy those oiled or greased...I chose the greased type.
They’re not the same. Skateboard bearings have 8mm bore. These have 5/16 bore. Slightly smaller.
ended up replacing the furnance, but it wasnt thebearing. it was the fan at the back
hope you salvaged the ECM draft inducer .... it's worth some money on ebay!
Great video, working on this now. Anyone run into a problem getting the set screw out of the collet holding the impeller on? Mine is not budging and I don’t want to apply too much heat and potentially warp the impeller. Not a lot of room for error. I may end up having to drill it out 🫣
I worked on mine tonight. Getting the impeller off was the most difficult part of the job so far. This one has a plastic impeller that was friction fit. I ended up clamping the lower part of the shaft between two pieces of brass in a vice and after lubricating the end where the impeller fit into the shaft and getting a lot of exercise in the process, got the impeller off and inadvertently loosened the magnetic part of the motor from the shaft. I'll use some loctite to secure that back in place. I've not been this deep into an electric motor before but think I'll get it back together and working again.
Apply penetrating oil, wait about 30 minutes. Apply more penetrating oil. Wait some more. Use a 1/8” hex bit with an impact drill. Works every time.
These ECM’s are on a national back order and have been for several months. The factory claims that they are negative 20,000 of these motors behind. Mine went out last night in Ohio. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get one? Thanks in advance
I've seen them for sale previously on ebay.
Hey where would you recommend to buy a better bearing without having to etch the rod where the bearing is placed?
nvm found it,, @mark hughes
@@azn789456 where did you find it? Post a link!
I am having a hard time getting the setscrew for the motor shaft off. What size is it?
sorry I don't have that information. mine came off very easily. I don't recall the size being unique or unusual and my standard set of allen wrenches fit it perfectly.
@@YuDaMan So it was a standard size(not metric) and was it very tight (so it makes a snap sound when it lets go)?
Same problem - there should be a class action lawsuit, manufacturer spec'd the wrong motor for the application.
I politely disagree. The ECM motors are highly sophisticated and very expensive but the variable speed performance is second to none.
@@YuDaMan The motor is rated at 1/15HP at 1.1A. Achieving a variable speed control with a simpler motor design isn't even a challenge.
Strangely enough the manufacturers put an overly complicated motor design in there where simpler option with the same advantage already exists.
do you have a part number for the bearing Thanks
it's sort of in the video description ... 608. Be sure to LIKE and subscribe if this video helps you. That would really help me. THANKS
Thanks I was skimming thru at work
Did this work okay for you? Any further issues?
no further issues. Perfect thru a pretty normal Connecticut winter. Given how difficult and expensive it is to just get a replacement motor without the whole housing, I'm very happy with the cost and performance of this fix
Update: Nov 2019 - still running quietly with no other issues
I’d imagine a faulty secondary heat exchanger is to blame for the bearings failure. Good reason to leave these repairs to the pros. Don’t fix just the failure.. need to address the root problems
@@jeffb8437 go on governor.
@@jeffb8437 His problem was the bent bracket holding the motor to the housing causing it to not seal properly and water got out and rusted the bearing which he replaced and bent the back straight again.
@@jeffb8437 the main problem is the rubber water seal which gets hard.
www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Carrier-Shaft-Seal-Kit-58SX660003-1456-/362953790706 Have to change this also
I got exact problem. Talked to a HVAC guy and they told me some people had a very bad batch and have this exact same issue. Parts cost +1000$ for inducer motor assembly , at that point I just bought a new furnace for 2600$.
Fuck carrier never going with them again.
It's not only just Carrier, I have a Bryant 95i series and it has the same motor with same problem.
Tech came by today and the motor costs $1400, even that is on a national back order.
So even if I wanted to spend the money, I can't, because the manufacturer can't supply it anymore.
My furnace is 12 years old and my only options are either try to fix the motor the hard way or buy an entirely new unit. Imagine that!
Also there is no HVAC company that will fix the bearing and save me from buying a new furnace.
@@shkhamd The reason HVAC companies don’t replace bearings is because of liability. If they replace the bearing, they are liable for any future failures. It’s not worth the risk for them. Your best bet would be a handyman probably.
What size bearing did it require?
2nd sentence in description under the video. It’s a common size for skateboards so avoid the temptation of using a really cheap one.
@@YuDaMan Thanks, missed the '608'.... Was used to seeing bearings sized as 8x22x7. Very helpful video.
Let me spare you some grief. The standard 608zz is not the right bearing. The shaft size is imperial and the bearing bore is metric. They will all be too loose at 8mm. You need to find a 608 with an imperial shaft which measures 7.938mm. NSK is the original bearing but I could not find one in the right size. I bought a NTN 608LLB/7.938PX2/5C. It was tight and I had to tap it in with a sleeve and hammer. The other benefit was it has a rubber seal (LLB) and will not allow moisture or dirt in like the metal ZZ which is shielded not sealed. Thanks for the video it really helped.
@@markhughes1887 Mark, thanks for the specs on the correct bearing. In my search, I have not been able to locate this bearing. Would you share your source? Is the ID correct in the comment section? thanks, dwg
@@4800detroit Here it is on ebay. www.ebay.com/c/1304503529
Now I did not buy it there but had my local bearing supply order it for me in Canada. I paid $40 each. Ouch. There are 2 bearings, one on either side of the motor. I changed them both even though the inside one looked fine. It is so much trouble I only wanted to do it once.
The replacement motor is now a ridiculous $1100 plus!
Just called today, 1600$ 1727$ with the service install. I will be attempting this repair myself