Which is odd since they have been out of stock for over a year on the website. Having to buy them from recasters is the path I went. GW doesn't want my money, well then that's fine with me.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13Yes, yes, of course, well I... I certainly wouldn't dare print my own, I mean... It's a Krieg Army, but that doesn't meant the tanks are vat-grown too, I mean... *ahem*
Great video bud. Loving the content. I think a big change was in the rules commentary: if a unit is battleshocked and the is destroyed you can not use the Reinforcement strategem. This hurts a lot.
Great point Matt, I picked this up after I posted this. This is obviously huge and you'd almost want to be losing regiment units in one turn as opposed to two and therefore risking battle-shock
Yeah i agree i think we should view it against the overall changes across all factions. Will be interesting to see thd collective impact. Was hoping for more but at least we didng get taxed too much.
The Manticore nerf was just part of the Big Indirect Fire Nerf that also hit: Whirlwind, Exorcist, Plagueburst Crawler etc. .... the Question now is if it's replaceable by 2x Medusa Carriage Batteries ? I think Guards Winrate is not as high as it could be because Guard Players tend to value the flavour and the style of their army above how competitive it is, which leads to unoptimized lists.
I've found Medusas to be disappointing, D6 shots is super unreliable and hitting on 4s doesn't cut it. Having slept on it, I think 2 Manticores may still work but even that is an extra 60pt....
@@GuardsmanHanan The other Option is to play less indirect Fire, use Basilisk to slow down certain Units of the opponents army and take other Tanks to deal Damage GW's message about their dislike of indirect fire is quite clear in the Points increase of those weapons Gaunt's Ghosts got buffed hard by the Command Rules, do you think it will be the next Auto-Include Unit next to Lord Solar ?
@@cyeRunnerI absolutely agree on the Ghosts. Being able to drop down and issue orders where needed and add some decent damage of their own while having Lone Operative is an insanely useful combination. Dropping in some Scions or Kasrkin alongside a Reinforcement Krieg blob and being to get Take Aim on both is excellent. I'm considering dropping Leontus and using the Creed/Fields/Vox combo as my CP battery to be able to fit in GG's.
I've been running Basilisks more just because I love the idea of an old artillery canon blasting away at the enemies. Right now with the current change I think switching to basilisks would be handy because between 2 basilisks and 2 manticores you'd get enough maybe for a scout sentinel to improve your indirect game or another cadian squad for better objective control.
Haha right on, none of this fancy rocket business, just good old fashion gunpowder and steel. Yeah 180pt makes it 45pt more than a Basilisk. Or said differently 405pt for 3 basilisk or 360pt for 2 manticores. The manticores Damage 3 is strong however D6+1 shots is unreliable especially at 180pt. The Basilisk profile gets out way more shots and their is often a 'quality in quantity'
Guants Ghostd went from strong pick to near auto include. This update is actually a complete buff if you dont use Manticores. The flexibility of being able to order units when they are setup is super good
Its a good point you make. Previously I was a bit 50/50 on ghosts. My ape brain couldn't remember to pick them up, drop them down every turn however now they can issue orders on return it's a great way to buff an area of the board that needs more focus etc
I've been finding a lot of success with chimeras, catachan, and ogryn. If you put ogryn in chimeras they become a real problem, or you take them in full squads and get solar to move move move them into rapid range. They're essentially two durable heavy bolters when firing within within 9 inches plus they're decent in melee, for 22 points per model. That makes heavy weapon squads look like a joke! Chimeras are cheap as hell and you can shove them onto objectives and have them flamer anything with decent OC or that wants to melee them. Catachan can give the chimeras scout, are as cheap as OC gets, and can take straken who is absolutely a hidden gem. I like to stick straken and a platoon command with Nork on 20 catachan and watch them become a big melee woodchipper.
Ogryns arent something I have tried yet but as you say, the dakka can be serious business. I have however used Straken, command squad, oygrn bodyguard + catachans and it is glorious to see them upper cut melee threats they really shouldnt be taking out, for the Emperwah!
haha indeed, maybe the Mechanicus was a circuit board shortage so cant make the aiming device in the Storm Eagle Rocket, gun powder and metal for Earthshaker shells however!
For me personally, I've been taking a pair of manticores recently and now they're fine. Gonna see how some eradicator russes do for me in the anti-marine role
The Kasrkin rule applies even when they're off the board, so they should be fine. The verbiage is "In your Command Phase, select one order to affect this unit..." and there are no qualifiers as to their location. So you could give them Take Aim while embarked, disembark with them and Creed and have her issue FRFSRF and be good to go. Edit: In fact, if Creed is attached her ability allows her unit to be affected by 2 orders so you could also give them Fix Bayonets and charge in if you were feeling spicy. Lol
The Guard update to only one unit just feels like GW didn't want to appear to ignore the list, not that they had any good ideas. And where are our Krieg Combat Engineers? They're still selling the models but we have no rules of any kind. Seems like it would have been better to just leave the Guard point costs as is and just add in the Krieg Engineers. Even if the design team is just plain inept and lazy, could they be bothered to put them in Legends?
I think this is actually due to poor inventory management. Probably there is loads of stock of them still and GW refuse to discount products so they are still for sale. And someone probably didn't tell the rule team and hence got missed when legends were worked out. You could send them an email actually. They won't reply but may actually do something about it. I once emailed them about something and they actually fixed it!
Hear me out.... instead of a death korp blob... 10 scions with a command sqaurd with a psyker ... command squad has the command rod plus the medic pack and the grand strategies.... your order plus to hit and rapid fire.... So hitting on 2s Command squad 6 from the Las gun 5 from the volley gun 3 from the plasma Scions 1 from the plasma pistol 15 from the Las guns 10 from the volley gun 6 from the plasma gun Psyker D6 dev wounds (say 3) 49 shots all with sustained hits plus one. All re-rolling on 1's For 265 points...... please tell me if I'm on to something ???
Would the psyker get the deepstrike rule when attached to the unit? I don't think you could deepstrike as it doesn't have that keyword. If the unit is forced to be on the ground, you could add a Ogryn body guard for some serious melee potential and still have the composition you've laid above.
@Combner it definitely wouldn't have the deep strike rule with the psyker, maybe just in reserve or like u said add a bodyguard 🤔 or do away with the psyker and have it deep strike. Kasakin with castellan and scions are gonna be meta now, so many combos I can see
A minor watch out is the Pysker and command squad don't get the re-roll 1s (or full re-rolls if on an objective), only the scions squad themselves. Granted you couldn't deep strike them with the Pysker, sustained hits on the Pysker dev wounds could be very very tasty!
most poor guard list are short of screening units whether battle line or scout sentinels .... I have noticed most list have to many officers / characters and not enough orders.... the other thing we have no death ball gimmicks , so stop that until a new codex comes out ... manticores were seen as better than baslisks ,,,,,, So to stop 3 manticores and 3 baslisks in every list points nerf ......
I think Guard were where they needed to be at. The Manticore wasn't particularly efficient at 150pts, at 180pts it is now an overcosted unit that's going to be shelved. Indirect fire is a tool and wasn't dominating games. GW's obsession with cluttered terrain is why people brought indirect fire to avoid being hit by melee only armies. The current game designers don't quite seem to grasp the entirety of the game. One thing that has yet to be fixed is adding back in our combat engineers. They still sell the figures but why no rules? All the other Forge World tanks need dramatic point drops as they are so absurdly overpriced and under-gunned that people aren't bringing these out.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 GW have been attacking Forge World since 8th edition. Weaker stats, expensive points; deliberately making it harder to bring FW models to a table. I really do miss Forge World being its own entity.
@@dominicl5862 I had a Dorn shoot all its guns at two exalted eightbound to kill only one model....one model killed from a 260 point tank with take aim! This edition is hands down the worst edition of 40k I've ever played.
@@leonardskilroy3869 it's interesting you say that because I genuinely think the Rogal is very overrated. Yes it has a stronger canon than the Basic Leman Russ but it's ability is purely durability based. It doesn't do anything for damage besides have a bunch of guns. Vs say the LRBT it has reroll 1s and even full rerolls on objectives. That's a huge DMG boost. LRBT at 80pts cheaper, exterminator autocannon Russ buffs ur whole army, demolisher for the real tank busting, lascannons for tank duels (another thing the Rogal lacks). I feel like the Rogal is more of a distraction Carnifex. I love the discussion btw.
Great video mate :)
Many thanks good sir!
Dataslate's like "You'll take Basilisks and LIKE it!"
Which is odd since they have been out of stock for over a year on the website. Having to buy them from recasters is the path I went. GW doesn't want my money, well then that's fine with me.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13Yes, yes, of course, well I... I certainly wouldn't dare print my own, I mean... It's a Krieg Army, but that doesn't meant the tanks are vat-grown too, I mean... *ahem*
😂😂😂
Great video bud. Loving the content. I think a big change was in the rules commentary: if a unit is battleshocked and the is destroyed you can not use the Reinforcement strategem. This hurts a lot.
Great point Matt, I picked this up after I posted this. This is obviously huge and you'd almost want to be losing regiment units in one turn as opposed to two and therefore risking battle-shock
Yeah i agree i think we should view it against the overall changes across all factions. Will be interesting to see thd collective impact. Was hoping for more but at least we didng get taxed too much.
The Manticore nerf was just part of the Big Indirect Fire Nerf that also hit: Whirlwind, Exorcist, Plagueburst Crawler etc. .... the Question now is if it's replaceable by 2x Medusa Carriage Batteries ?
I think Guards Winrate is not as high as it could be because Guard Players tend to value the flavour and the style of their army above how competitive it is, which leads to unoptimized lists.
I've found Medusas to be disappointing, D6 shots is super unreliable and hitting on 4s doesn't cut it. Having slept on it, I think 2 Manticores may still work but even that is an extra 60pt....
@@GuardsmanHanan The other Option is to play less indirect Fire, use Basilisk to slow down certain Units of the opponents army and take other Tanks to deal Damage
GW's message about their dislike of indirect fire is quite clear in the Points increase of those weapons
Gaunt's Ghosts got buffed hard by the Command Rules, do you think it will be the next Auto-Include Unit next to Lord Solar ?
@@cyeRunnerI absolutely agree on the Ghosts. Being able to drop down and issue orders where needed and add some decent damage of their own while having Lone Operative is an insanely useful combination. Dropping in some Scions or Kasrkin alongside a Reinforcement Krieg blob and being to get Take Aim on both is excellent.
I'm considering dropping Leontus and using the Creed/Fields/Vox combo as my CP battery to be able to fit in GG's.
Orders from officers in chimeras can be doubled when they jump out.
I've been running Basilisks more just because I love the idea of an old artillery canon blasting away at the enemies. Right now with the current change I think switching to basilisks would be handy because between 2 basilisks and 2 manticores you'd get enough maybe for a scout sentinel to improve your indirect game or another cadian squad for better objective control.
Haha right on, none of this fancy rocket business, just good old fashion gunpowder and steel.
Yeah 180pt makes it 45pt more than a Basilisk. Or said differently 405pt for 3 basilisk or 360pt for 2 manticores. The manticores Damage 3 is strong however D6+1 shots is unreliable especially at 180pt. The Basilisk profile gets out way more shots and their is often a 'quality in quantity'
Guants Ghostd went from strong pick to near auto include. This update is actually a complete buff if you dont use Manticores. The flexibility of being able to order units when they are setup is super good
Its a good point you make. Previously I was a bit 50/50 on ghosts. My ape brain couldn't remember to pick them up, drop them down every turn however now they can issue orders on return it's a great way to buff an area of the board that needs more focus etc
@@GuardsmanHanan dude for real, teleport every turn. That's just wow. Especially in a guard army
I've been finding a lot of success with chimeras, catachan, and ogryn. If you put ogryn in chimeras they become a real problem, or you take them in full squads and get solar to move move move them into rapid range. They're essentially two durable heavy bolters when firing within within 9 inches plus they're decent in melee, for 22 points per model. That makes heavy weapon squads look like a joke!
Chimeras are cheap as hell and you can shove them onto objectives and have them flamer anything with decent OC or that wants to melee them.
Catachan can give the chimeras scout, are as cheap as OC gets, and can take straken who is absolutely a hidden gem. I like to stick straken and a platoon command with Nork on 20 catachan and watch them become a big melee woodchipper.
Ogryns arent something I have tried yet but as you say, the dakka can be serious business.
I have however used Straken, command squad, oygrn bodyguard + catachans and it is glorious to see them upper cut melee threats they really shouldnt be taking out, for the Emperwah!
Meanwhile the Cadian Nonplanetary News:
Imperium is running out of (manticore) missiles.
Also imperium:
So you choose death by basilisk
haha indeed, maybe the Mechanicus was a circuit board shortage so cant make the aiming device in the Storm Eagle Rocket, gun powder and metal for Earthshaker shells however!
For me personally, I've been taking a pair of manticores recently and now they're fine. Gonna see how some eradicator russes do for me in the anti-marine role
Manticore going up was utterly unnecessary. I’d rather we had no changes at all and let the others catch nerfs rather than what we got
Good thing I never built my manticore now they are way down on the list but the command change is nice
It's a shame they didn't word the Orders ability to make Kasrkiin able to order themselves when disembarking
The Kasrkin rule applies even when they're off the board, so they should be fine. The verbiage is "In your Command Phase, select one order to affect this unit..." and there are no qualifiers as to their location.
So you could give them Take Aim while embarked, disembark with them and Creed and have her issue FRFSRF and be good to go.
Edit: In fact, if Creed is attached her ability allows her unit to be affected by 2 orders so you could also give them Fix Bayonets and charge in if you were feeling spicy. Lol
The Guard update to only one unit just feels like GW didn't want to appear to ignore the list, not that they had any good ideas. And where are our Krieg Combat Engineers? They're still selling the models but we have no rules of any kind. Seems like it would have been better to just leave the Guard point costs as is and just add in the Krieg Engineers. Even if the design team is just plain inept and lazy, could they be bothered to put them in Legends?
I think this is actually due to poor inventory management. Probably there is loads of stock of them still and GW refuse to discount products so they are still for sale. And someone probably didn't tell the rule team and hence got missed when legends were worked out. You could send them an email actually. They won't reply but may actually do something about it. I once emailed them about something and they actually fixed it!
Hear me out.... instead of a death korp blob... 10 scions with a command sqaurd with a psyker ... command squad has the command rod plus the medic pack and the grand strategies.... your order plus to hit and rapid fire....
So hitting on 2s
Command squad
6 from the Las gun
5 from the volley gun
3 from the plasma
Scions
1 from the plasma pistol
15 from the Las guns
10 from the volley gun
6 from the plasma gun
Psyker
D6 dev wounds (say 3)
49 shots all with sustained hits plus one. All re-rolling on 1's
For 265 points...... please tell me if I'm on to something ???
Would the psyker get the deepstrike rule when attached to the unit? I don't think you could deepstrike as it doesn't have that keyword.
If the unit is forced to be on the ground, you could add a Ogryn body guard for some serious melee potential and still have the composition you've laid above.
@@Combner that's a really good point. I know one thing, it's definitely gonna have to make me go back to the drawing board again
@Combner it definitely wouldn't have the deep strike rule with the psyker, maybe just in reserve or like u said add a bodyguard 🤔 or do away with the psyker and have it deep strike. Kasakin with castellan and scions are gonna be meta now, so many combos I can see
A minor watch out is the Pysker and command squad don't get the re-roll 1s (or full re-rolls if on an objective), only the scions squad themselves. Granted you couldn't deep strike them with the Pysker, sustained hits on the Pysker dev wounds could be very very tasty!
most poor guard list are short of screening units whether battle line or scout sentinels ....
I have noticed most list have to many officers / characters and not enough orders....
the other thing we have no death ball gimmicks , so stop that until a new codex comes out ...
manticores were seen as better than baslisks ,,,,,, So to stop 3 manticores and 3 baslisks in every list
points nerf ......
Obligatory Comment 🫡
GW just don't know what they're doing, Guard needed a serious buff and our only useful tank gets a points increase??
I think Guard were where they needed to be at. The Manticore wasn't particularly efficient at 150pts, at 180pts it is now an overcosted unit that's going to be shelved. Indirect fire is a tool and wasn't dominating games. GW's obsession with cluttered terrain is why people brought indirect fire to avoid being hit by melee only armies. The current game designers don't quite seem to grasp the entirety of the game.
One thing that has yet to be fixed is adding back in our combat engineers. They still sell the figures but why no rules? All the other Forge World tanks need dramatic point drops as they are so absurdly overpriced and under-gunned that people aren't bringing these out.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 GW have been attacking Forge World since 8th edition. Weaker stats, expensive points; deliberately making it harder to bring FW models to a table. I really do miss Forge World being its own entity.
Ya it's crazy takes like "our only useful tank" which makes me TOTALLY understand why the Guard winrate is so bad.
@@dominicl5862 I had a Dorn shoot all its guns at two exalted eightbound to kill only one model....one model killed from a 260 point tank with take aim! This edition is hands down the worst edition of 40k I've ever played.
@@leonardskilroy3869 it's interesting you say that because I genuinely think the Rogal is very overrated. Yes it has a stronger canon than the Basic Leman Russ but it's ability is purely durability based. It doesn't do anything for damage besides have a bunch of guns. Vs say the LRBT it has reroll 1s and even full rerolls on objectives. That's a huge DMG boost. LRBT at 80pts cheaper, exterminator autocannon Russ buffs ur whole army, demolisher for the real tank busting, lascannons for tank duels (another thing the Rogal lacks). I feel like the Rogal is more of a distraction Carnifex. I love the discussion btw.