Amén. Best regards to everyone who comes here to listen to what they need to listen in order to stay away from these people. You’re all doing something really hard .
This video helped me make sense of my ex. When he started to devalue me, he would tell me to yell at him and tell him off for the way he treated me. He said his exes would fight back. I told him I wasn’t them. His mom was emotionally and verbally abusive to him, but now he has a strange relationship with her. He’s 40 and texts her every morning 9have a good day) and at night (good night). Always tells her he loves her.
Disconnect, focus on yourself & your own wellbeing, redecorate, buy new clothes, invest in yourself, meditate so that you can focus on being happy in yourself, be polite, but in a detached & neutral observant way. If you feel them attempting to parent you, then remain calm & advise them you are an adult & have your own brain & decision making process, whether that's your actual parent or someone thinking they are a parent & therefore know best, despite not being your actual parent. If they act like a child then again, remain detached & centred in yourself as your own individual separate person. Be kind, considerate & cool & detached in relation to them, you don't need to parent them either. If they act up, tell them, & make a joke out of it, you don't need to punish them as the bad parent replacement either. Don't take anything personally & remember at all times to avoid the toddler rage.. if they start going psychotic on you, don't try & reason with them, or argue or explain yourself to them, & don't let them get to you. When they are in that state, they are centred purely in their inner trauma mind, & you don't really exist to them when they are in that state beyond a mirror image projection they need to punish or destroy. So it's best to just backtrack & vacate the area when they are in that state of mind. If you can remain detached & cheerful in yourself because you have your own self esteem & don't worry about external validation or approval, as an independent adult individual, you may even be able to get along with them fine. Just maintain your boundaries & keep aware of any dodgy behaviour & just keep it in check with a sense of humour & don't let them get you down, & if you feel they are getting to you, just make your excuses & walk away.
It is also unbelievable how the narcissist creates an extremely bad version of their partner. He creates ideas in his mind to acuse their partner, totally delusional and sick. 😢
i legitimately can’t tell if i’m the bad object or the narcissistic abuser. how do i figure that out??? whenever i watch these videos like this one, it feels like it could go both ways every time. does that mean i’m the narcissist?
@@joeboxter3635 It's why red flags went off when he told me that he wanted to kill his ex .. I just left him and blocked him when he left the country without warning. He is coming back and we go to the same campus. Hope he has found a secure supply so that I get left alone.
I’ve been studying your videos diligently. I’d like to compliment the way you spin through words; repeating alternative nuances. It really helps dial in the intended meaning. During the first video I watched, I asked myself, “why is he doing this?” After MANY videos, I understand. It’s a great vehicle. Keep doing it. Next. I’m writing a memoir on my 20 years with some kind of Cluster B creature. I don’t know which one, but it’s not a diagnosis I’m after. When I divorced her, she tested high (MMPI-2) for narcissism and histrionic. But the behaviors stretched beyond that, straying into reckless, self-destructive territory. I also compliment you on your attitude toward the gurus, coaches, etc. I agree. It’s a cottage industry designed to suck money out of miserable, confused people. And they work to keep them confused and in “victim” status. I’ve seen a lot of that, because I was initially a prime target. Keep up that message, as well. Thanks for what you do, Sam.
Mind-blowing explanation on the narcissistic cognitive process! This video has provided me with the clarity I have been seeking for months. I suspected my ex's behavior towards our separation had to do with narcissism. You nailed it. Now, I have exactly what I need to move on. Now, I can finally understand what, how, and why I felt my marriage had to end. Thank you
We come from narcissistic families that live in narcissistic societies who are ruled by narcissistic governments. The exponential trauma being refracted off of this hall of mirrors is fractal in it's infinitude.
I am so grateful for the assistance you have the most informative knowledgeable you tube channel to heal millions of victims of narcissist family trauma 🙏
I kept asking myself what I did wrong and why my Ex secretly seemed to enjoy chaos and conflict continuously.Now apart from understanding I was the narcissistic supply,I now understand i was hated for no reason other than being a bad object! Mommy and daddy issues really suck!
I don't think narcissist are the result of mommy daddy interactions in particular bad mother, bad father. If that is true than why is one sibling a narcissist but other is a human. My wife is full human. Empathy is her nature. Apology is the first words on her lips, if she even thinks she might have done something wrong. Her older brother is the exact opposite. He is narcissist who might even be a sociopath. I find his views interesting. But keep in mind, he is a self-admitted narcissist. So much of his opinion on narcacism is based on his own personal experience. There are (have to be) other explanation of how narcissist come into being. In particular, I know the narcissist. I know mommy/daddy. I know a sibling. His theory of narcacism does not fit this particular narcissist. He also says the narcissist sees you as weak. I don't necessarily think that's true. They don't always. This is why they employ lovebombing to suck you in. Then they use gaslighting to get you to doubt. Triangulation to leave you without resource to escape their planned attack. And if you resist, they scheme using their knowledge of you and their cult of flying monkeys to attack and destroy you or until you submit to their victimization. Too much of his analysis is centered around male - female relationships. Narcissist have many different kinds of relationships. So what he says isn't applicable to the full scope of narcacism. And, again this is because he is relying on his own experience as (not with) a narcissist.
What you say about them internalising us as bad objects, I witnessed this for myself. this person had created her own version of me in her mind. She was engulfed by this inner narrative - a total departure from reality. Everything I did during this time was perceived as a slight and in the end she has risked her career - soon after training - to exact vengeance on me. It's so sad but I will never forgive her for what she did to me. And now I'm being stalked by her.
I never had anyone dislike me so much in a short time for being a kind and caring person. Initially, I accepted his advances because he seemed awkward, and I did not want to say no and hurt his feelings. He was very very anti-social. He was against all societal norms, like going on dates, gift-giving, things about the law, etc. He would make a date to come over to my place, and many times he would not show up, and there was no reason. I started to think he just wanted to see if I wanted to see him. I am not sure if it was a game or what. I have the old texts, and I was reading through them and remembering how many times that happened. He seemed not to bother with his family, or anyone, and I wanted to make sure he had a gift at Christmas. When he was here a few days after Xmas, I pulled out the gift saying this is for you. He gave me the most creepy dark look and stated he does not buy gifts for anyone and does not accept gifts from anyone. Then, he did not understand why that made me cry. I was so excited for him to have the items, all beautifully wrapped and very thoughtful items. The items are still here from two years ago. He then did not communicate for over three months, and I thought I was just ghosted, although nothing really happened to cause this. When he then called on the fourth month, I told him I don't know who you have been with, and I did not hear from you for a long time, like three months. He murmured something like Oh, God, she is counting the months. Maybe next time I will wait six months. I said I am not comfortable getting back into this as you seemed unhappy here and went so lomg without calling me, so you must of not had any desire for me, and you did not miss me. He called a few more times, and I still said no. He did not like to be called on the phone or texted, and I am the most chatty person around! He "picked" me for certain things, but it seems he then hated me for the things that make me appealing. As he is out dealing with the public and going in and out of places, I was very concerned about catching COVID, and he thought that was so ridiculous, but it was a big part of the reason I did not want to get together anymore. On the last call, he made a negative comment about my body (sadistic) as that was the only thing he could think of to criticize me or hurt me. I felt he wanted to be as hurtful as possible so that there would be no going back ever. I could have said something about his body parts/looks that would have really hurt him, but that is not who I am. Ten months have gone by, so he seems to be gone for good, which is for the best. I really hope he will be okay in his life. I do miss things about him, and he was not all bad either.
I have similar experience, even the same feeling. Like he wanted to see if I want him enough, but he acted very aloof. Like, they want you to chase them even if they act hurtful. They are offended if you have dignity. At the same time, if you humiliate yourself for them, they're still not happy. Very stupid games they play. And yes, they like you very intensely at first, and then they hate you for the same reasons that they liked you and vice versa. One of my many narc exes hated that I have strong principles, like respecting religion, traditions etc. When I finally acted out and stomped my own moral principles he was very disappointed. They're very confusing and mentally ill people. I can't bring myself to hate them either. I am very angry for the abuse inflicted but at the same time I feel pity for them, because they're like wounded children. I believe their healing is impossible and this is real tragedy
@@mariammiee I know that, and I think for him to be that messed up someone must have messed him up pretty badly. I am sorry such a good person made him feel bad, but I felt it best to step away. Seems like a long while ago now, and it's all okay. No ill will towards him, and I hope he finds his way someday.
Professor Vaknin, first of all thank you for your amazing videos. Secondly, I'm so shocked that these creatures don't get cancer or other many psychosomatical illnesses at a very young age considering all the chaos they live with constantly.
I did get cancer. It’s stage 4 now. And get this, a Tibetan llama once told my husband that his anger was going to kill me. This llama barely knew my husband who had taken a weekend workshop with him. The Llama only spoke Tibetan and had a translator, so at the time we laughed about it, and blew it off. We thought maybe it was a translation error. And now here I am. I’m getting a divorce soon. My cancer is stable and I’m going to live free for as long as I can.
This explains why I could never understand why he has such a bad outlook on me. I mishap is instantly called a “trend”, this would be something that happens once in 365days. But understanding that the snapshot is the one who is bad, me the external good being could never reconcile back to the internal snapshot. It was like be told a version of yourself which doesn’t exist, and it always baffled me. But it definitely makes sense now, he interacts with a version of me in his head. The puzzle pieces now fall into place. For the past 12 years, l felt l couldn’t pin how his head functioned. I have often looked at him trying to get how he gets to things he says but it never made sense to me. Wow, what a revelation. I mean phew, l need out
Mirror Mirror on the wall! think I attracted myself to myself. This helps me to understand my own dysfunction. I want the flame but don't want to get burned. Wish I knew how to heal it. Would like to be held and cared for but by the age of two I was rejected by both parents and now at 46 find myself independent, loving my freedom and pushing away anyone who disagrees with my fantastical projections onto Human's that I wish to see as God's. The object of my desire a Narc married to a Borderline or covert Narc, flying monkeys everywhere and the shared fantasy between him and myself created the triangulation he needed to get her under control. I of course couldn't be and exited stage left, I think we all missed the game for a while.
In the workplace, narcissists use many situations which include some that are " much to do about nothing " to play out this fantasy upon you. The ability to see this could be easily lost in the scenario of " who's right or whos wrong or a mistake was made" ... Don't be confused ... they had been waiting for this " trap " in order to label you the " bad object." And as sensitive human beings we become overwhelmed by this seemingly un-equal confrontation/attack based upon the situation. Once in this world of shared fantasy, gaslighting, control, bullying is the unfortunate outcome.
Still trying to get over the internalized trauma of one narc supervisor who started early on choosing to penalize my honest mistakes, ostracize me, rather than mentoring me so I could be a better team member. With my self esteem in crumbles, I made the excruciating decision to leave my good job to get out from under her tyranny.
Wow. Is all I can say. I have these traits...as I've inherited a lot of narcissism from my father...i feel I'm also full of empathy and have a heart. I feel truly messed up because I feel like half and half...half victim of narc abuse, half narc, half ego path, half empathic huge hearted person...I must thank you because if theres any chance of me healing, growing, and changing...this information will help a lot.
If only parents understood that babies have a need for stress relieving crying, and would support it when the baby runs inevitably into caretaker's failure to meet needs, no permanent psychic injury occurs with the many disappointments a growing one has to face. Please see Aletha Solter's experiences and compilations of the science about the positive effects of acceptance of the physiological release of negative emotions, especially with infants and children.
Beware of getting too intellectual about mental health. Life is a terrific challenge, but there are tools for getting through it (and, theoretically at least, even thriving).
(It's about min. 3 that Vaknin describes inevitable situation and the possible infliction of childhood injury (and, I'm saying, the possibility of avoiding it via the acceptance of child's expression of frustration(s)).
Oh Sam... At 39.25 when you gave a demo' of the reaction to empathy & emotions ✨ It was SO spot on to my ex 😂 I had to replay! There's not been much to laugh about beyond him, with the amount of discord & destruction he caused in our lives. But, your invaluable info on the topic, has been so helpful ✨ & it's good to experience a banging belly laugh aswell as the very important knowledge afterwards 💫💖
The bad object, does this come along with the "grudge" they hold against you. Why you can never do enough, never make them happy etc. Was just curious if that is conjunction with the grudge, like how they can justify treating you poorly because in their minds they got a narcissist injury because you didn't agree on a color and now it's a way to justify it? The poor behavior/cheating/all justified because they always find you not perfect.
This was a great explanation. I have relationships with men like this. I love them still. I accept them for who they are. But I have come to understand that it is not healthy for me & I am becoming more curious throughout my time in therapy & “healing” what it might feel like to be with a man who does not love me through the lens of hatred. My summer lover is egregious with his attitude. I blocked him & went no contact. He finally gave me space for a couple months & then he returned. He does not handle this well at all. He just says, “i only want to have sex that’s it. I don’t want “you” at all. You are ugly which is why I only come at night.” (He doesn’t only come at night.) I’ve never seen or met someone with whatever mental illnesses he has. He’s blatant with his attitude & behavior too. He does not wear a charming mask or pretend to be nice or charismatic at all. He is the most over mean, cold person I’ve ever met in my life. He’s made of ice. He thrives in the cold bitter winds of resistance & it is really boring. I let him come over recently & it’s been a couple months. He walked in my bedroom & my room was a huge chaotic mess. Clothes everywhere, ‘stuff’ Not put away. He paused and looked around and I just said, “this is who I really am. I’m a mess. I don’t care about impressing you & I’m not a clean person.” He didn’t respond, as usual, but he layed on my bed & had sex with me & he was trying really hard to make it enjoyable for me. He just cannot let his body touch mine in an intimate way. He cannot kiss me. It’s really interesting. It’s like he wants to try but can’t do it. I disgust him & repulse him but he can’t manage without thoughts of me in his mind. He cannot manage the idea of me not available or me not thinking about him too. It’s really bizarre. I just tried to quit judging him & leave him be. Im not sure who he thinks I am to him or what he feels about me. I don’t think he feels anything for me at all - or anyone. He literally hates me but won’t let me go for long. I hope he finds someone else and takes his attention off me eventually. Im not afraid of him anymore. There’s more going on inside of him every second of his life than I’ll ever be able to understand. & he is just such a quiet person. He hardly speaks. I don’t feel like I know him at all but he’s been in my life since June 2020. He told me that if he can just see me one more time then he’ll be able to finally get me out of his head & stop plaguing & poisoning his life. He was pleading & it was baffling how he can be so distant in every way but then snap & beg & plead to be with me. Eventually we will grow bored & tired of this and it will end but apparently we aren’t otherwise it wouldn’t be on my mind. We wouldn’t be seeing each other in this acrid relationship
@@karennichols9939 There's a man who says he likes me & said he has made a "copy" of me in his mind based on my attributes & that copy exists inside of him. He said he does this copy thing with anyone he has any emotional attachments with. He interacts with that copy regularly as he reads our daily chat conversations 5 times a day & also insists me to read chat repeatedly to get to the depth but I don't. Especially after a fight, he has discussion with my copy rather than with me. I don't understand this! I never paid attention to it until someone suggested me this video. Do u all think that copy is same snapshot what this video is about? It's scary though to realize that guy is doing this with me. And yes, he displays almost all red flags of narcissism. He's admitted to having a massive ego as Jupiter. I called him a narc on his face as well & he couldn't defend.
Thank you for sharing that. He won’t kiss me either though be appears sensual and seductive, when I try to hold him he balls up and stiffens like a beaten dog. The sex itself is cold and robotic and usually some form of masterbation. It was just such a shock from what I thought the sex would be. It is just sad making and disappointing.
Professor Vaknin, your insight is greatly and sincerely appreciated. Besides the sexlessness, when a narcissist does decide to have sex why does he have premature ejaculation?
She's doing this to me right now. I'm a recovering alcoholic and drank two days ago. I feel guilty enough. But the abuse I'm receiving is beyond cruel. I met her in the hospital she works for when I was there for an alcohol detox.
About the disonance, what when you think good about the person but this person starts to behave in wrong ways against you (triangulations, intermitent behavior, silent treatment, etc) is the opposite process? this person is trying to convert me to a bad object looking for my reactions? and im getting disonance because what this person showed me at the begining is not what is showing right now?
He said, at discard phase: “before I need you or depend on you, I better shoot myself, I will not give you that pleasure of needing you. Disappear from my life.”
Prof. Vaknin, you need to make a video on this gender ideology crazyness, I'm genuinely afraid I will have to comply with that nonsense in order to either please people or hold a job.
Does my own son (age 17) consider it weird that I care about him and wanted to communicate with him? I am filed under bad but he cannot give me the basis of this. Over the last 4 years though he has shut me down completely, he's always angry, always bad tempered, when he began to scare me I kicked him out with gardai assistance, and he went to live with my brother. Now, he hates me but he hated me before I kicked him out. I've tried to get him to tell me why he hates me and he doesn't have any reason. Just more attacks, I'm shit, I'm fat, my pension will be shit, I've never achieved anything in life, blimey, on and on. If I've never achieved anything, well, that's for me to grapple with, why would that be the basis of his hatred for me. He needs to worry about his own life. I have a job. I am content. I'm not going to absorb all of this hatred. I will listen to him if he has a message.
@Prof. Vaknin: Jung explained that introverted intuitives had the ability to create a more or less complete psychological picture of another person from fragmentary information. Does this idea overlap with your description of purely pathological snapshotting?
@Jo Legge what is it with people like you? Why do you hate IN-types? Are you an ES-type? Interestingly I know 3 narcissistic. 2 are ES-type and one is an IS-type. Should I now conclude all narcissists are S-types? Not just that, let me go as far as you have and say all S-types have narcissistic tendencies.
Professor Vaknin. Regarding someone's devaluation as a good object.... Is it possible that the narcissist sees you as a "good" object all along and devalues you from the beginning. Only relating to you as someone she can use or toy with. So, there may never have been an idealization phase at the beginning?
@Prof.Sam so if the ego is fragile and the ID appears to be quite strong, what about the function of the super-ego pls? Just love how you deliver your lectures !!
If you abandon the narcissist for a short period of time, do they get mortified and become sexually disengaged typically or does their grandiose mentality kick in and go on during this phase? Curious to your answer. Thank you
@@samvaknin thank you for your response. Wondering if you dumped them when they expected you yo stay over the beginning of the discarding phase or fairly recent into discarding phase. I will watch the video again as well. Your video’s are excellent btw. 👍
Do the same needs and desires that drive the male narcissist in terms of seeking a replacement for his mother apply to the female narcissist? Is she forever seeking a replacement to give her what she wanted and needed for her father?
There's a man who says he likes me & said he has made a "copy" of me in his mind based on my attributes & that copy exists inside of him. He said he does this copy thing with anyone he has any emotional attachments with. He interacts with that copy regularly as he reads our daily chat conversations 5 times a day & also insists me to read chat repeatedly to get to the depth but I don't. Especially after a fight, he has discussion with my copy rather than with me. I don't understand this! I never paid attention to it until someone suggested me this video. Do u all think that copy is same snapshot what this video is about? It's scary though to realize that guy is doing this with me. And yes, he displays almost all red flags of narcissism. He's admitted to having a massive ego as Jupiter. I called him a narc on his face as well & he couldn't defend.
Me being a concerning partner put me in bad place with my ex narc anything that she did that had me react was my fualt some how even if it didnt make sense she tryed to screenshot as the bad person but all i did was use it against her i had no problem telling people what i did to her because i actually did do something but i realise i just didnt trust her but how did i use it against her by telling people that shes talking about something that dont have to do with what i was talking about now she was just deflecting but after the breakup i did make her think i was in realationship again i thought was actually funny all it did was make her scream at me again 😅 to be honest im lil toxic. I can take accountbillty for my actions but i usually tit for tac when people try to hurt me i mught feel bad atthe ending but its worth it
You are weak and stupid, are his favorite insults to me. That hit hard.... He calls me a bad broken toy. But he loves me , even if he is mean to me per him. 😑 I call it BS, yet here I am 4yrs and going, we dont talk as much as before only here and there, but I still feel I need him as medicine but I realized he is a bad medicine for me. He knows how to love bomb me very good and I trip into the trap again. Tell me please how can I stop this obsession on the lovey dovey part? I love it when he love bombs me not the mean cruel side.
Several years ago my partner told me that I was in love with an idea of who I thought he was, that I had built a fantasy image of him that didn't exist! We are still together, but the history of that time is repeating itself... I find myself here listening to what is being said on your many videos, and I'm wondering if I'm either a full on narcissist, or at best have a lot of narcissistic traits? I feel totally confused, I love him, he intrigues me, I want to be in his presence, but I'm worried that its about me and not about him? We also have a young son and I'm worried that I might be hurting his development, ie, I think I'm doing everything that's good for him, but I'm questioning if I actually am, I don't want to fail him, I want him to have an amazing life, to grow up, to find love and to be content!
@@Roberta_Esposito well thats a stretch it's difficult to list the attributes and I can see nothing good they have to offer actually its the opposite of good a nessecary evil I suppose idk tbh
I have to keep listening to this everyday in order to keep my divorce process going!
Amén. Best regards to everyone who comes here to listen to what they need to listen in order to stay away from these people. You’re all doing something really hard .
He would push me to become the bad object, and I did! Ironically, I thought I was fighting against him, but, instead, became what he wanted!
Same, he loves making me get upset and cry.
This video helped me make sense of my ex. When he started to devalue me, he would tell me to yell at him and tell him off for the way he treated me. He said his exes would fight back. I told him I wasn’t them. His mom was emotionally and verbally abusive to him, but now he has a strange relationship with her. He’s 40 and texts her every morning 9have a good day) and at night (good night). Always tells her he loves her.
Same here! Looking back he pushed me to the level I never know I could reach and then made me an evil abuser in the eye of everyone
They hate being held accountable for their part in creating the destructive creature you become.
They want to make you them. miserable empty and looking to be filled. It's gonna take time to be myself again.
@@Zanie234 its a process. Time alone but not too much. Do things that make you happy and write a daily journal.
Disconnect, focus on yourself & your own wellbeing, redecorate, buy new clothes, invest in yourself, meditate so that you can focus on being happy in yourself, be polite, but in a detached & neutral observant way. If you feel them attempting to parent you, then remain calm & advise them you are an adult & have your own brain & decision making process, whether that's your actual parent or someone thinking they are a parent & therefore know best, despite not being your actual parent. If they act like a child then again, remain detached & centred in yourself as your own individual separate person. Be kind, considerate & cool & detached in relation to them, you don't need to parent them either. If they act up, tell them, & make a joke out of it, you don't need to punish them as the bad parent replacement either. Don't take anything personally & remember at all times to avoid the toddler rage.. if they start going psychotic on you, don't try & reason with them, or argue or explain yourself to them, & don't let them get to you. When they are in that state, they are centred purely in their inner trauma mind, & you don't really exist to them when they are in that state beyond a mirror image projection they need to punish or destroy. So it's best to just backtrack & vacate the area when they are in that state of mind. If you can remain detached & cheerful in yourself because you have your own self esteem & don't worry about external validation or approval, as an independent adult individual, you may even be able to get along with them fine. Just maintain your boundaries & keep aware of any dodgy behaviour & just keep it in check with a sense of humour & don't let them get you down, & if you feel they are getting to you, just make your excuses & walk away.
It is also unbelievable how the narcissist creates an extremely bad version of their partner. He creates ideas in his mind to acuse their partner, totally delusional and sick. 😢
i legitimately can’t tell if i’m the bad object or the narcissistic abuser. how do i figure that out??? whenever i watch these videos like this one, it feels like it could go both ways every time. does that mean i’m the narcissist?
Grey rock them as much as possible. They hate you because they can't be you. They hate you cause they need you to emotionally exist.
It's so shocking, yet totally explanatory, that a narcissistic - if you reject them - wants you dead.
@@joeboxter3635 It's why red flags went off when he told me that he wanted to kill his ex .. I just left him and blocked him when he left the country without warning. He is coming back and we go to the same campus. Hope he has found a secure supply so that I get left alone.
I’ve been studying your videos diligently. I’d like to compliment the way you spin through words; repeating alternative nuances. It really helps dial in the intended meaning. During the first video I watched, I asked myself, “why is he doing this?” After MANY videos, I understand. It’s a great vehicle. Keep doing it. Next. I’m writing a memoir on my 20 years with some kind of Cluster B creature. I don’t know which one, but it’s not a diagnosis I’m after. When I divorced her, she tested high (MMPI-2) for narcissism and histrionic. But the behaviors stretched beyond that, straying into reckless, self-destructive territory. I also compliment you on your attitude toward the gurus, coaches, etc. I agree. It’s a cottage industry designed to suck money out of miserable, confused people. And they work to keep them confused and in “victim” status. I’ve seen a lot of that, because I was initially a prime target. Keep up that message, as well. Thanks for what you do, Sam.
It's the "Cluster B creature" for me lmaooooo 😹😹😹
Mind-blowing explanation on the narcissistic cognitive process! This video has provided me with the clarity I have been seeking for months. I suspected my ex's behavior towards our separation had to do with narcissism. You nailed it. Now, I have exactly what I need to move on. Now, I can finally understand what, how, and why I felt my marriage had to end. Thank you
We come from narcissistic families that live in narcissistic societies who are ruled by narcissistic governments. The exponential trauma being refracted off of this hall of mirrors is fractal in it's infinitude.
Sounds like a bit if a stretch, but I'm not the expert here.
Right on.
Blessings
I am so grateful for the assistance you have the most informative knowledgeable you tube channel to heal millions of victims of narcissist family trauma 🙏
Yes, they hate you and project their self-loathing onto you.
I kept asking myself what I did wrong and why my Ex secretly seemed to enjoy chaos and conflict continuously.Now apart from understanding I was the narcissistic supply,I now understand i was hated for no reason other than being a bad object!
Mommy and daddy issues really suck!
I don't think narcissist are the result of mommy daddy interactions in particular bad mother, bad father. If that is true than why is one sibling a narcissist but other is a human.
My wife is full human. Empathy is her nature. Apology is the first words on her lips, if she even thinks she might have done something wrong. Her older brother is the exact opposite. He is narcissist who might even be a sociopath.
I find his views interesting. But keep in mind, he is a self-admitted narcissist. So much of his opinion on narcacism is based on his own personal experience. There are (have to be) other explanation of how narcissist come into being.
In particular, I know the narcissist. I know mommy/daddy. I know a sibling. His theory of narcacism does not fit this particular narcissist.
He also says the narcissist sees you as weak. I don't necessarily think that's true. They don't always. This is why they employ lovebombing to suck you in. Then they use gaslighting to get you to doubt. Triangulation to leave you without resource to escape their planned attack. And if you resist, they scheme using their knowledge of you and their cult of flying monkeys to attack and destroy you or until you submit to their victimization.
Too much of his analysis is centered around male - female relationships. Narcissist have many different kinds of relationships. So what he says isn't applicable to the full scope of narcacism. And, again this is because he is relying on his own experience as (not with) a narcissist.
What you say about them internalising us as bad objects, I witnessed this for myself. this person had created her own version of me in her mind. She was engulfed by this inner narrative - a total departure from reality. Everything I did during this time was perceived as a slight and in the end she has risked her career - soon after training - to exact vengeance on me. It's so sad but I will never forgive her for what she did to me. And now I'm being stalked by her.
All of their actions have reasons and good intentions while the actions of others are the opposite.
I never had anyone dislike me so much in a short time for being a kind and caring person. Initially, I accepted his advances because he seemed awkward, and I did not want to say no and hurt his feelings. He was very very anti-social. He was against all societal norms, like going on dates, gift-giving, things about the law, etc. He would make a date to come over to my place, and many times he would not show up, and there was no reason. I started to think he just wanted to see if I wanted to see him. I am not sure if it was a game or what. I have the old texts, and I was reading through them and remembering how many times that happened. He seemed not to bother with his family, or anyone, and I wanted to make sure he had a gift at Christmas. When he was here a few days after Xmas, I pulled out the gift saying this is for you. He gave me the most creepy dark look and stated he does not buy gifts for anyone and does not accept gifts from anyone. Then, he did not understand why that made me cry. I was so excited for him to have the items, all beautifully wrapped and very thoughtful items. The items are still here from two years ago. He then did not communicate for over three months, and I thought I was just ghosted, although nothing really happened to cause this. When he then called on the fourth month, I told him I don't know who you have been with, and I did not hear from you for a long time, like three months. He murmured something like Oh, God, she is counting the months. Maybe next time I will wait six months. I said I am not comfortable getting back into this as you seemed unhappy here and went so lomg without calling me, so you must of not had any desire for me, and you did not miss me. He called a few more times, and I still said no. He did not like to be called on the phone or texted, and I am the most chatty person around! He "picked" me for certain things, but it seems he then hated me for the things that make me appealing. As he is out dealing with the public and going in and out of places, I was very concerned about catching COVID, and he thought that was so ridiculous, but it was a big part of the reason I did not want to get together anymore. On the last call, he made a negative comment about my body (sadistic) as that was the only thing he could think of to criticize me or hurt me. I felt he wanted to be as hurtful as possible so that there would be no going back ever. I could have said something about his body parts/looks that would have really hurt him, but that is not who I am. Ten months have gone by, so he seems to be gone for good, which is for the best. I really hope he will be okay in his life. I do miss things about him, and he was not all bad either.
I have similar experience, even the same feeling. Like he wanted to see if I want him enough, but he acted very aloof. Like, they want you to chase them even if they act hurtful. They are offended if you have dignity. At the same time, if you humiliate yourself for them, they're still not happy. Very stupid games they play.
And yes, they like you very intensely at first, and then they hate you for the same reasons that they liked you and vice versa.
One of my many narc exes hated that I have strong principles, like respecting religion, traditions etc. When I finally acted out and stomped my own moral principles he was very disappointed. They're very confusing and mentally ill people.
I can't bring myself to hate them either. I am very angry for the abuse inflicted but at the same time I feel pity for them, because they're like wounded children. I believe their healing is impossible and this is real tragedy
This isnt a person you should have sympathy for
@@mariammiee I know that, and I think for him to be that messed up someone must have messed him up pretty badly. I am sorry such a good person made him feel bad, but I felt it best to step away. Seems like a long while ago now, and it's all okay. No ill will towards him, and I hope he finds his way someday.
Professor Vaknin, first of all thank you for your amazing videos.
Secondly, I'm so shocked that these creatures don't get cancer or other many psychosomatical illnesses at a very young age considering all the chaos they live with constantly.
@@ernesttrosman 🎯💯
@@ernesttrosman Absolutely, they're nothing without the supply and our light.
They will go on forever but their targets end up sick and die young.
I did get cancer. It’s stage 4 now. And get this, a Tibetan llama once told my husband that his anger was going to kill me. This llama barely knew my husband who had taken a weekend workshop with him. The Llama only spoke Tibetan and had a translator, so at the time we laughed about it, and blew it off. We thought maybe it was a translation error. And now here I am. I’m getting a divorce soon. My cancer is stable and I’m going to live free for as long as I can.
This explains why I could never understand why he has such a bad outlook on me. I mishap is instantly called a “trend”, this would be something that happens once in 365days. But understanding that the snapshot is the one who is bad, me the external good being could never reconcile back to the internal snapshot. It was like be told a version of yourself which doesn’t exist, and it always baffled me. But it definitely makes sense now, he interacts with a version of me in his head. The puzzle pieces now fall into place. For the past 12 years, l felt l couldn’t pin how his head functioned. I have often looked at him trying to get how he gets to things he says but it never made sense to me. Wow, what a revelation. I mean phew, l need out
So it's like he's absorbing you and creating a incubator inside himself it's like becoming a host
Mirror Mirror on the wall! think I attracted myself to myself. This helps me to understand my own dysfunction. I want the flame but don't want to get burned. Wish I knew how to heal it. Would like to be held and cared for but by the age of two I was rejected by both parents and now at 46 find myself independent, loving my freedom and pushing away anyone who disagrees with my fantastical projections onto Human's that I wish to see as God's. The object of my desire a Narc married to a Borderline or covert Narc, flying monkeys everywhere and the shared fantasy between him and myself created the triangulation he needed to get her under control. I of course couldn't be and exited stage left, I think we all missed the game for a while.
Resume: take distance! Go away! No contact!
This is amazing. I love how you understand everything and can explain so succinctly.
In the workplace, narcissists use many situations which include some that are " much to do about nothing " to play out this fantasy upon you. The ability to see this could be easily lost in the scenario of " who's right or whos wrong or a mistake was made" ... Don't be confused ... they had been waiting for this " trap " in order to label you the " bad object." And as sensitive human beings we become overwhelmed by this seemingly un-equal confrontation/attack based upon the situation. Once in this world of shared fantasy, gaslighting, control, bullying is the unfortunate outcome.
True! I see this in my workplace with a particular coworker. I feel sorry for her, actually.
Still trying to get over the internalized trauma of one narc supervisor who started early on choosing to penalize my honest mistakes, ostracize me, rather than mentoring me so I could be a better team member. With my self esteem in crumbles, I made the excruciating decision to leave my good job to get out from under her tyranny.
Wow. Is all I can say. I have these traits...as I've inherited a lot of narcissism from my father...i feel I'm also full of empathy and have a heart. I feel truly messed up because I feel like half and half...half victim of narc abuse, half narc, half ego path, half empathic huge hearted person...I must thank you because if theres any chance of me healing, growing, and changing...this information will help a lot.
You sound like a covert narc
@@nobody-yh2bf thanks butthole, I think i figured that one out already
I feel the same brother, I think being aware of it is a huge step
Narcissists are not aware and do not want to change. You are above your abuse and your abuser. Keep working hard!
If only parents understood that babies have a need for stress relieving crying, and would support it when the baby runs inevitably into caretaker's failure to meet needs, no permanent psychic injury occurs with the many disappointments a growing one has to face. Please see Aletha Solter's experiences and compilations of the science about the positive effects of acceptance of the physiological release of negative emotions, especially with infants and children.
Beware of getting too intellectual about mental health. Life is a terrific challenge, but there are tools for getting through it (and, theoretically at least, even thriving).
(It's about min. 3 that Vaknin describes inevitable situation and the possible infliction of childhood injury (and, I'm saying, the possibility of avoiding it via the acceptance of child's expression of frustration(s)).
Oh Sam... At 39.25 when you gave a demo' of the reaction to empathy & emotions ✨ It was SO spot on to my ex 😂 I had to replay! There's not been much to laugh about beyond him, with the amount of discord & destruction he caused in our lives. But, your invaluable info on the topic, has been so helpful ✨ & it's good to experience a banging belly laugh aswell as the very important knowledge afterwards 💫💖
The bad object, does this come along with the "grudge" they hold against you. Why you can never do enough, never make them happy etc. Was just curious if that is conjunction with the grudge, like how they can justify treating you poorly because in their minds they got a narcissist injury because you didn't agree on a color and now it's a way to justify it? The poor behavior/cheating/all justified because they always find you not perfect.
This was a great explanation. I have relationships with men like this. I love them still. I accept them for who they are. But I have come to understand that it is not healthy for me & I am becoming more curious throughout my time in therapy & “healing” what it might feel like to be with a man who does not love me through the lens of hatred.
My summer lover is egregious with his attitude. I blocked him & went no contact. He finally gave me space for a couple months & then he returned. He does not handle this well at all.
He just says, “i only want to have sex that’s it. I don’t want “you” at all. You are ugly which is why I only come at night.” (He doesn’t only come at night.) I’ve never seen or met someone with whatever mental illnesses he has. He’s blatant with his attitude & behavior too. He does not wear a charming mask or pretend to be nice or charismatic at all. He is the most over mean, cold person I’ve ever met in my life. He’s made of ice. He thrives in the cold bitter winds of resistance & it is really boring.
I let him come over recently & it’s been a couple months. He walked in my bedroom & my room was a huge chaotic mess. Clothes everywhere, ‘stuff’ Not put away.
He paused and looked around and I just said, “this is who I really am. I’m a mess. I don’t care about impressing you & I’m not a clean person.”
He didn’t respond, as usual, but he layed on my bed & had sex with me & he was trying really hard to make it enjoyable for me. He just cannot let his body touch mine in an intimate way. He cannot kiss me. It’s really interesting. It’s like he wants to try but can’t do it. I disgust him & repulse him but he can’t manage without thoughts of me in his mind. He cannot manage the idea of me not available or me not thinking about him too.
It’s really bizarre. I just tried to quit judging him & leave him be.
Im not sure who he thinks I am to him or what he feels about me. I don’t think he feels anything for me at all - or anyone. He literally hates me but won’t let me go for long.
I hope he finds someone else and takes his attention off me eventually.
Im not afraid of him anymore. There’s more going on inside of him every second of his life than I’ll ever be able to understand. & he is just such a quiet person. He hardly speaks.
I don’t feel like I know him at all but he’s been in my life since June 2020.
He told me that if he can just see me one more time then he’ll be able to finally get me out of his head & stop plaguing & poisoning his life. He was pleading & it was baffling how he can be so distant in every way but then snap & beg & plead to be with me.
Eventually we will grow bored & tired of this and it will end but apparently we aren’t otherwise it wouldn’t be on my mind. We wouldn’t be seeing each other in this acrid relationship
@@karennichols9939 There's a man who says he likes me & said he has made a "copy" of me in his mind based on my attributes & that copy exists inside of him. He said he does this copy thing with anyone he has any emotional attachments with. He interacts with that copy regularly as he reads our daily chat conversations 5 times a day & also insists me to read chat repeatedly to get to the depth but I don't. Especially after a fight, he has discussion with my copy rather than with me. I don't understand this! I never paid attention to it until someone suggested me this video. Do u all think that copy is same snapshot what this video is about? It's scary though to realize that guy is doing this with me. And yes, he displays almost all red flags of narcissism. He's admitted to having a massive ego as Jupiter. I called him a narc on his face as well & he couldn't defend.
Sound more like a sociopath
Thank you for sharing that. He won’t kiss me either though be appears sensual and seductive, when I try to hold him he balls up and stiffens like a beaten dog. The sex itself is cold and robotic and usually some form of masterbation. It was just such a shock from what I thought the sex would be. It is just sad making and disappointing.
But there's something unhealthy in you too, to continue engaging in this dynamic.
How are things going now, it's June 2023.
Watch the movie "mother" it is exactly as Proffessor describes!
Professor Vaknin, your insight is greatly and sincerely appreciated. Besides the sexlessness, when a narcissist does decide to have sex why does he have premature ejaculation?
She's doing this to me right now. I'm a recovering alcoholic and drank two days ago. I feel guilty enough. But the abuse I'm receiving is beyond cruel. I met her in the hospital she works for when I was there for an alcohol detox.
About the disonance, what when you think good about the person but this person starts to behave in wrong ways against you (triangulations, intermitent behavior, silent treatment, etc) is the opposite process? this person is trying to convert me to a bad object looking for my reactions? and im getting disonance because what this person showed me at the begining is not what is showing right now?
He said, at discard phase: “before I need you or depend on you, I better shoot myself, I will not give you that pleasure of needing you. Disappear from my life.”
what happens when you are normal and you dont abandon the inner child and share the love that you are. what happens then.
Prof. Vaknin, you need to make a video on this gender ideology crazyness, I'm genuinely afraid I will have to comply with that nonsense in order to either please people or hold a job.
Search the sexuality playlists.
Did you see the Hemingway documentary tonight he replaced his third wife in 11 days
Does my own son (age 17) consider it weird that I care about him and wanted to communicate with him? I am filed under bad but he cannot give me the basis of this. Over the last 4 years though he has shut me down completely, he's always angry, always bad tempered, when he began to scare me I kicked him out with gardai assistance, and he went to live with my brother. Now, he hates me but he hated me before I kicked him out. I've tried to get him to tell me why he hates me and he doesn't have any reason. Just more attacks, I'm shit, I'm fat, my pension will be shit, I've never achieved anything in life, blimey, on and on. If I've never achieved anything, well, that's for me to grapple with, why would that be the basis of his hatred for me. He needs to worry about his own life. I have a job. I am content. I'm not going to absorb all of this hatred. I will listen to him if he has a message.
How do you reverse narcissists point of view so that you no longer are a bad object? Or persecutory object? 🤔
You can't. But, if you did not mortify the narcissist, it will happen anyhow inside the narcissist's mind.
I’m wondering if there’s an lecture available on this subject that covers the codependent (covert) narcissist.
Search the comorbidities playlist.
A mitzvah, thx so much
@Prof. Vaknin: Jung explained that introverted intuitives had the ability to create a more or less complete psychological picture of another person from fragmentary information. Does this idea overlap with your description of purely pathological snapshotting?
No.
@Jo Legge what is it with people like you? Why do you hate IN-types? Are you an ES-type? Interestingly I know 3 narcissistic. 2 are ES-type and one is an IS-type. Should I now conclude all narcissists are S-types? Not just that, let me go as far as you have and say all S-types have narcissistic tendencies.
Professor Vaknin. Regarding someone's devaluation as a good object.... Is it possible that the narcissist sees you as a "good" object all along and devalues you from the beginning. Only relating to you as someone she can use or toy with. So, there may never have been an idealization phase at the beginning?
@Prof.Sam so if the ego is fragile and the ID appears to be quite strong, what about the function of the super-ego pls? Just love how you deliver your lectures !!
Does this apply for all type of narcissist including somatic narcissist,Professor Vaknin?
Yes.
@@samvaknin Thank you for your work.
If you abandon the narcissist for a short period of time, do they get mortified and become sexually disengaged typically or does their grandiose mentality kick in and go on during this phase? Curious to your answer. Thank you
Depends HOW you abandoned them. Watch the videos about mortification.
@@samvaknin thank you for your response. Wondering if you dumped them when they expected you yo stay over the beginning of the discarding phase or fairly recent into discarding phase. I will watch the video again as well. Your video’s are excellent btw. 👍
Professor Vaknin, does this also apply to Borderline Personality Disorder?
No.
Do the same needs and desires that drive the male narcissist in terms of seeking a replacement for his mother apply to the female narcissist? Is she forever seeking a replacement to give her what she wanted and needed for her father?
Mother, rarely a father. But she has conflicted relationships with men (“daddy issues”) and a disturbed gender identity.
@@spikestoyou hey least you recognizem now learn cut early at red flags. Yes keep learning to know self ask for change from "universe" it will answer.
Yes ditto
There's a man who says he likes me & said he has made a "copy" of me in his mind based on my attributes & that copy exists inside of him. He said he does this copy thing with anyone he has any emotional attachments with. He interacts with that copy regularly as he reads our daily chat conversations 5 times a day & also insists me to read chat repeatedly to get to the depth but I don't. Especially after a fight, he has discussion with my copy rather than with me. I don't understand this! I never paid attention to it until someone suggested me this video. Do u all think that copy is same snapshot what this video is about? It's scary though to realize that guy is doing this with me. And yes, he displays almost all red flags of narcissism. He's admitted to having a massive ego as Jupiter. I called him a narc on his face as well & he couldn't defend.
in the idealisation phase he sees you as bad object? thanks
Me being a concerning partner put me in bad place with my ex narc anything that she did that had me react was my fualt some how even if it didnt make sense she tryed to screenshot as the bad person but all i did was use it against her i had no problem telling people what i did to her because i actually did do something but i realise i just didnt trust her but how did i use it against her by telling people that shes talking about something that dont have to do with what i was talking about now she was just deflecting but after the breakup i did make her think i was in realationship again i thought was actually funny all it did was make her scream at me again 😅 to be honest im lil toxic. I can take accountbillty for my actions but i usually tit for tac when people try to hurt me i mught feel bad atthe ending but its worth it
Where's the Minnie mouse cup
You are weak and stupid, are his favorite insults to me. That hit hard.... He calls me a bad broken toy. But he loves me , even if he is mean to me per him. 😑 I call it BS, yet here I am 4yrs and going, we dont talk as much as before only here and there, but I still feel I need him as medicine but I realized he is a bad medicine for me. He knows how to love bomb me very good and I trip into the trap again. Tell me please how can I stop this obsession on the lovey dovey part? I love it when he love bombs me not the mean cruel side.
Did you get away? xx
Several years ago my partner told me that I was in love with an idea of who I thought he was, that I had built a fantasy image of him that didn't exist! We are still together, but the history of that time is repeating itself... I find myself here listening to what is being said on your many videos, and I'm wondering if I'm either a full on narcissist, or at best have a lot of narcissistic traits? I feel totally confused, I love him, he intrigues me, I want to be in his presence, but I'm worried that its about me and not about him? We also have a young son and I'm worried that I might be hurting his development, ie, I think I'm doing everything that's good for him, but I'm questioning if I actually am, I don't want to fail him, I want him to have an amazing life, to grow up, to find love and to be content!
I was once told that if you question yourself than you cant be a narcissist! Cos narcissist never really question or accept to be one
is that for both male and female for sadist being aroused or just male?
Do narcissists know other people are narcissists and know they think the same way? Do they thinks non narcissists think this way also (snapshots)
Yes and yes.
@@samvaknin
So, is going no contact considered being a bad object by the narcisst or the opposite?
I love the narcissist I have a choice
@@Roberta_Esposito well thats a stretch it's difficult to list the attributes and I can see nothing good they have to offer actually its the opposite of good a nessecary evil I suppose idk tbh
Then you need to follow and learn from HG Tudor (channel)
@@misbah76 pls no one go to this channel it gave me cancer