Electric Bike 4.0 - Prototyping
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Electric Bike V1: goo.gl/ktnbBJ
Electric Bike V2: goo.gl/CJ2RW4
Electric Bike V3: goo.gl/pdGwV8
Best electronic speed controller for electric vehicles up to 4kw: goo.gl/sN9EnZ
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I was lucky enough to blag a test ride on V3. I can confirm the brakes were pretty sketchy LoL! Nice work Tom :)
Thanks for going into detail responding to my questions. I am am an avid cyclist in my other life, so this project is really appealing. One day I would like to have the free time to make an e-bike too.
this seems like one of those "simple" projects until you realize you don't have your own CNC machine.
use a jigsaw and a drill
I have the time, tools, and skills but not enough money to spend like 600 euro on parts with no guarantee it will all work in the end.
do you not have 20min, internet acess for ebay and about $400?
Plum_ Pie It's much more than that. The conversation kit will cost you about 300 euro and another 300 for a decent battery
"So that's the end of this video..." (1/3 of the video still remaining)
:)
I was thinking the same
thats great, I'm not even mad!
but is that not the best part of Tom's channel!
already wanted to watch the next one :D
Yess, found your channel when looking into making a DIY electric bicycle, since then you've become my favourite RUclips channel
You might want to take a closer look into that belt tensioning arm during the build. Going that fast might induce some dynamics problem such as high vibrations. Maybe you should attach it to the frame as well?
Tom I am very inspired by you and after watching you so much i could not give up and i got myself anet a8 3d printer(sill on its way from china) and first thing i want to print is the stuff you designed Im so exited!!!
Im curious why did you decide to go with the a8 ? the ender 3 cost about the same but is regarded as the superior machine
Lerbyn I actually didnt even tried to check out other options turns out its about same i mean a8 is kinda hard to maintain. I just got it to get into 3d printing and i will probably get a pro printer after a year or so.
saladnuts mine is under import clearance what a luck but will be here in 3 days😋
that.s well thought out. I like the bearing support bracket for the motor shaft, this will keep everything square and ease loading on the motor bearing
I want to say thanks a lot for all of your videos! It's really fun to watch because you talk about your design considerations and go into detail of your process. You've easily got on of the top channels on youtube in my book.
Very cool Tom!
Hi Tom, electric brushless motors are basically inductors, meaning that when the motor suddenly stops, it causes a surge in voltage. You can easily netgate this by adding a capacitor to your powerline. I had this problem on my 250 quad and fried 2 FCs until I soldered on the capacitor. Hope this helps!
Alec Ryan. What powerline do you mean??
ConnorMakes the main power input. putting a capacitor in parallel with the battery should fix the voltage spikes
A capacitor on the input side would Help? Wouldn't this just protect the battery? Or does it absorb the voltage spike current that the speed controller would need to absorb
ConnorMakes Exactly, it acts as a temporary sponge for the excess voltage of the inductor.
My speed controllers already have one on the power input, is this what you mean?
I used to work in an e-bike store: e-bikes have special brakes with an electric switch that cuts out the engine when braking. This prevents the engine fighting the breaks, which wears both out.
Still, looks awesome, keep it up!
In honor of your hair color joke, I must propose a new title for your channel: British Gingineering. Lol wonderful project again! Can't wait to see it done!
Lol I like it.
Or just Real Gingineering, like the Irish channel haha
i fooking hate my red hair..... old ladys, " oh look how lovely your...." me- " you have the fucking shit than " lol, soooo many fight at school over being a carrot top....
@@opiestanborough4774 ginger is the way - add some garlic too - my mum used to say oh look youre strawberry blonde - who gives a luck i mean its like spelling - suck fake haters
Ik this was a while ago but I really want to like it. However, as of right now it has 69 likes therefore I can’t bring myself to Change it 😂
Wow - impressed with this! I remember watching your earlier E-bike iterations and marveling at the engineering efforts required for them. I can't wait to see this materialize!
Man, I needed one of these at uni ;)
Great video. I love the engineering and cad work. I am jealous, actually, I haven’t been in the country so i cant work on my build, but i love what you can do with such “minimal electronics”. Great ratios, too, should be really fun to ride
You could pressure form your aluminum pulley spoke, if you can get some form of hydraulic press, just place your cut piece [including enough length for the angle deflection included in the bend] onto a set of centered steel pieces, screw it down to the middle to keep it from slipping or tilting and gradually add pressure to make sure you don't develop a stress fracture or get one spoke bending before the others causing a lopsided draw...
I cannot give enough thumbs up to this guy. What a sincere video, no acting , even technical info.. wow. If youtube looked like this, this world would be awesome:)
Dont forget, regenerative breaking is not mostly about the added range but additional breaking power and reducing the break pads wear, thereby reducing the cost of running :)
Thanks for going into all of that detail at the end... it was quite informative and answered a few Q's I had from the start of the video. Super looking forward to seeing how this evolves!
There is going to be a very large amount of force on the idler pulley, I would suggest adding a clamp to the idler pulley arm so it can clamp to side tube its close to. Keep up the great work, love your videos.
Very nice project Tom. Finally you put the motor into the shape of the bycicle frame and not out as previous versions of your project. Many challenge are waiting you but i'm sure you'll win all of them! See you next time!
Tom! you make me a kind of addicted to your posts. Entertaining and inspiring. Can't wait the next one. Thanks for giving the reasons of your choices. I do love the "too simplistic" expression. Ambitious projects are more interesting actually.
Your designs get better and better.
Bravo!
Very well done! You've gotten a lot done in the last week!
Quick tipp: Never lubricate a bearing with oil unless it is at least half in oil everytime. Otherwise oil gets out of the contact area of the rollers or balls qickly and bearing fails because of metal/metal contact. You have to use grease which stays between the roling elements and supplies them with a thin oil film for separation all the time.
Disk brake conversion is easy, I did it in my bike. And I have shock apsorber in satle mount tube. Works well.
When I saw the thumbnail I thought you had the motor in direct contact with the tire. It would transfer the torque by friction between outside of the motor and outside of the tire. You can improve friction by a sheet of rubber glued to the outside of the motor and a spring to press the motor to the tire. Motor would have to run in reverse, but the gear ratio doesn't look much off from the pulley and pinion. This is how Solex bikes work, so it's know to work. It would be such a simple design. Would love to see someone try it!
Very good engineering, love the choice to go simpler, makes it far easier to manage. The amazing thing is with modern batteries and motors, no gearbox or anything crazy is even needed.
Tom, great new video! I've watched your whole ebike series, and am working on a similar project myself. Really appreciate your detailed descriptions, thank you!
I am fascinated by the planetary gear "transmission" arrangement you mentioned, particularly including a clutch, and two gear ratios. Even if you don't build it, I would love to hear more about that design. Cheers!
Sounds like a fun project, cool to see the different designs! I've never really played with this stuff myself (would like to get into it once I build my workshop) but one thing I always wondered is could you actually use the entire wheel as a motor? The wheel would have magnets mounted to it, and then there would be a stationary frame section on both sides that would hold a bunch of magnetic coils. Essentially it would be a high pole count 3 phase motor. It would be more bulky I guess though. I guess the only advantage would be less moving parts.
Again a super design! Very nice how compact the build is.
Looking good. Good luck with the build
Couldn’t see anyone mentioning it, so I figured I would mention it whilst you’re starting the project, you’re gonna need to think about spray, not for water but grit and dirt being sprayed into the motor from the wheel, you’re definitely going to need to have some shield for the electronics
I'd love to be able to commute daily on an eBike just like this, definitely very interested in seeing how simple this turns out I might have to make my own! Great Work Tom. What kind of range do you get out of it?
Hi Tom
Nice to see the e-bike projekt running again!
I don't think that the extra bearing will save your motor bearing. There is two bearings located in the motor and then you are adding a third to the motor shaft. This could cause large forces to all the bearings because of misalignment of the bearings.
I work within mechanical engineering and I just love your projekts! 😊
Your camera confidence is coming on hugely. Not easy talking to a camera, but this looked relaxed and - easy!
Nice one.
for your gear box system, thered be no need for a clutch. racing motorbikes now use clutchless shifting by removing power not by diconnecting the engine but just cutting the ignition for the secong it takes to change gears.
i know youre not going to do it as you said in the vid but you could just cut the power to the motor via the ecu or a momentary switch when changing between gears if you were to add some. however thatd probably be a bit fast for mountain bike tyres anyway
great vid as always
You could use #25H size chain. Smallest pinion gear you can use is 6 tooth. Biggest is around 74-80+ tooth. It's small, light weight, and plenty strong. #25H chain is what you find on a 47cc & 49cc gas powered mini pocket bike.
Its possible to use the rear freehub space for belt drive if you can design a belt pulley fit in the freehub after 1or2 cogs in the cassette is taken away.(the rear hub of a disk brake bike is pretty compact and this method could be the most rigid and easy way)
Also you can get the bike geometry from the bike manufacturer too
the hand signs make me think you've been watching cody's lab ;-) Great work! it's really cool seeing the different projects you make come from a "napkin sketch" to prototype and then a more refined design
You could also use the regenerative braking of the VESC to help slow you down and recharge the battery as you do so
I'm new to the channel, but you've got me hooked. Can't wait to see this new bike rip!
Excellent work. Seriously thinking of doing a project this like myself, tho' need a better bike really. A guy in USA make his parts from scrap, like wood, had small wheel drive the back wheel by pressing up against, which has been in other videos. Works, but not a great design, but he did use a mains (usa 120v ac motor) powered with 2 power tool 36v dc batteries. No electronics, just using a heavy resistor wire, same as an electric coiled heating element wire used in electric fires, to control the power on the handle-bar. His most impressive part, is how he re-wired the stator, so it ran in parallel with the brushes on the rotor. He claimed this not only eliminated back emf, but used that same emf as driving forward torque. Could see he was getting tremendous torque even at low speeds. On one brush, there was an arc. Viewed via an infra-red camera, there was even a bigger more stable spark, almost like a plasma. Suggesting electro-static energy involvement. His name is John Christopher Gay if you want to check him out. I've lots of motors & gaining parts to experiment with. I'm old school analogue, don't have a clue how to program eeproms at all. Am also following Gerald Morin from Canada, who's into building a free over unity RF generator, using high voltage/high frequency generating a 50hz or 60hz for America square sine wave gap. I'm working on a magnetic free energy generator, which I got the first one working, producing up to 9 volts, enough to power a torch bulb or charge a battery. Let's hope the one I'm building now can belt out at least 12 volts or more, so can run it into the battery charger & pure sine wave inverter I'm also building. I guess the controller is using Mosfets for the power switching output? Is it frequency or voltage controlled? Thought if keeping the voltage up, but using a triac or scr set up, could control the output via frequency control. I've seen designs using drum motors & using a drum motor on the front wheel. Be almost impossible to fit a drum motor on the back wheel, no?!
Just for future reference, the smallest bike gear you can get is one you can remove from a cassette, and it's 11 tooth. Those are pretty easy to come by.
About the cheap bike getting so many miles: I ride a bmx that I got for £200 and I've had it nearly four years I think and maybe around 5000 miles on it and it's lasted fairly well with everything I do to it. I've had to replace many parts but nothing has actually broke just worn down and bent slightly but I've be using the same wheels, drive train and headset for all of that up until about a week ago.
About the brake pads: useless to you now but I use odyssey ghost pads clear (clear break pads are softer and so better than black ones but clear can be really loud if not set up properly) and they are great but they are tiny without the round washers and you can get the perfect toe in without trying and they're really thick and wear pretty slowly with everything I do. I do have v-brakes I think it is but I don't know how much difference that makes.
About the pot holes: learnt to bunny hop over them haha. Learning bunny hops is really difficult on a heavy bike but once you've learnt them you can do them on any bike and I can bunny hop the really cheap, heavy, old, steel mountain bikes that weigh like 20kg probably after learning it on a 11kg bmx.
About the chain for the motor: you can get some super thick chains for bmx because they don't have gears and are probably impossible to break from normal use and can fit to a 9t sprocket, probably smaller if you wanted.
Sorry for writing so much and for most of it being about bmx but I'm just sharing my knowledge.
I'm from Bristol if you know where that is (about 4 miles out from the center) and bmx has been perfect for me with everything there is going on.
Strangely My Comments Usually Get Quite Popular I'd love to do an ebike conversion on a BMX, they're fun to ride
PyreGnome Ay I agree but I'm not sure how we'll the electronics will hold up to the abuse and then there is also the extra weight. If you keep riding bmx you will eventually get a lot stronger in your legs and you won't need a motor, if it's too slow then you can get a 28t sprocket or maybe even bigger
You have a sick channel!! Very inspiring.
Doesn't that count as an electric motorbike as it goes faster than 15.5 mph and runs on more than 250W or whatever it is? Looking at doing something like this myself, but have been held back by those laws.
Correct in the UK BUT you have to get caught!
Richard Harris - Tom the rebel
Mattie Dumbrill no one is going to enforce these laws. Get yourself a sticker that says 250w and stick it to the motor.
I can't imagine an street inspector with multimeter and a regulated power supply testing your motor lmao
Seems brave putting it on youtube lol and it would only take a cop car behind you to get caught as they would be able to see what speed you are going with on board cam and radar or whatever they use to tell speed of car in front? Guess if you keep your wits about you chances of getting caught are slim though
Hi Tom, Bearing life in the motor is a bit of a concern as it's always engaged. If the belt drive could disengage via for example a freewheel at the hub, that would maintain better effeceincy when cycling and freewheeling.
Awesome e-bike build. There is a company in the US that makes similar electric and gas powered bike kits called "Sick Bike Parts". They make all sorts of bottom bracket adapters with extra long spindles and threaded crank arms. You might get some inspiration from them. Keep up the cool work.
awesome, is probably going to look cleaner than the previous versions
@TomStanton: Thank you for this great video.
I recommend that you find a seat suspension. It's a sprung apparatus that mounts between the seat and post. It helps in taking out much of the road vibration and jolts taken at the rear wheel. I found mine on "Performance Bicycles" website. Good luck with your belt & pulley.
You said you can now set the bike on both sides and not obstruct any electronics. But it is good practice to set the bike down on the side with the break disks, you do not want to risk damaging the rear derailleur, this can lead to shifting problems and the chain skipping down to higher gears without warning. And if at all possible it is good to keep the bike up-righted so you don't cause bubbling in the break lines.
I find it interesting to hear how this all holds up over hundreds of miles. Designing something to work is one thing, but keeping it going for that long is another!
Those toys I mean tool are so cool! I want them. Nice Vid!
I absolutely love your E-Bike videos!
the fusion model was impressively good ! nice job
I love this design man....and Fusion!!! lol Behind the seat was a smart idea.
This came up as a suggested video. Very impressive, not what I was expecting at all. Subbed 👍🏻
Tom, Another Great Video, I look forward to see how this project goes forward.
There’s no freewheeling on the side you plan to mount the belt, the freewheel is only on the drivetrain side. Discs from the break are permanently attached to the hub and so will be your pulley.
Great video Tom
FANtastic project !!!
Amazing quality and eye for detail, What I can not understand is why not use a mxus hub motor and control it from your vesc 6 it even has a build in temp probe. I use a mxus in a 20 inch wheel and it can take 8kw peaks no issues and last for many thousands of miles no service if it's had conformal coating applied.
Been loving these bike videos. I'm not a physical engineer (I'm a software engineer) - so forgive my dumb question:
Why not use the motor to power the pedal gear instead of the wheel directly? Then you could use the bike gears.
I'm sure there's a simple reason why not - I'd guess space? (no room for feet, pedals and a motor)
That is really fast! Bike engineer here. In Germany this would be absolutely illegal. Not sure about the UK. But besides the law: please get a proper helmet and gear. This is so fast, you should dress for the slide, not the ride, as the motorbike people say. And of course be very careful, if you have an accident and lets say you die, the driver of the car will also be scared: emotionally, for live. And remember that the bike and the frame are not made for these speeds. The brakes are decent (and of course way better then the previous brakes), but still not made for these speeds. Maybe you should think about Downhill brakes.
Technically: very nice solution and good thinking :)
Hey Tom... at 10:40 you're thinking about a free wheel system. There you fear, that your controller has problems, when the load-torque of your bike suddenly goes down. When you use the controller in torque control mode, you are right, because the speed will go up immediatley. But in Speed control mode, the conroller behaves stable. But on the other hand you have to calibrate the controller with the demand speed instead of throttle between 0-100%. So, there will be another behaviour, but I think it could be more reliable in a free wheel system
one more sentence: Great work!
Iterative design ftw! That a much more compact system. Looking forward to following the process.
looking forward to seeing the final 4.0 Tom Stanton electric bike!!
VESC usually have options for regenerative braking. The power generated from braking goes back into the battery and you don't have to use the brakes (as much).
Just got to the part about regen brake. Why do you use the normal brakes if you have regen braking?
dont think regen breaking is enough, i know its possible to config the vesc to break harder but it highers the risk of burning the vesc due to voltage spikes
It's a really good bike for its original RRP so good job Tom
nice work Tom! Very clean design. I do my daily commute on my ebike. A simple friction system and i've been using it for more than 2 years now. I've been planning to do another design though but i need to find time for that. Keep it up!
Awesome, Tom! But why didn't you mount the big gear the other side? After all, you won't need the gearbox. 😊
Because the gear cassette is a pain to remove! You are right though, that is a valid option.
He would just need a whip and a special wrench
The gearset would be useful if he ever has to pedal the bike
This would be good I think. The cassette is not difficult to remove and room could be made for the electric drive pulley on the free-hub by removing a gear or two from the cassette. There may be clearance issues with the chain though.
what issues? The derailleur can be set with 1 screw
3:47 "So eventually i wrecked the whole motor-mount by lubricating the frame." - Tom. Just, Tom ...
Love your thuroughness
Was really informative regarding the design concepts.
Hope your, this new project would also be a great success as the former versions.
looks good.
you could steam the ply-wood to make the prototype pulley.
This is great, really impressed with the use of photos for sizing the frame instead of stuffing around with measuring.
Can you go into a bit more detail on how you did that please?
Make sure you don't go too fast with those tires on tarmac. They'll easily skid because of the knobs. Keep it up - cheers.
Anders Dyekjær Hansen I don’t think so mate, they’re typically far more “grippy” than road bike tires. I’ve ridden MTB on fast roads before and never had any sort of issue.
Rian Mach is gay
Tor gottem
Rian - that might be true for high quality tires, but most shops don't have those. The knobbed tires there are made from harder rubber cause they know the people buying those won't actually ever leave the road and so harder tires make them last long - and reduce grip a Lot. Friend of mine had the stupid idea of getting one of those bikes were the tires are like 5cm thick - and it had so little grip that when pulling the front brakes the front tire simply locked up.
I agree... get some good, high quality touring fats. Schwabe brand with minimal tread. Those knobbies will be HUMMING at 30 mph and will wear down to threads fast!
Nice simple build. Looking forward to the build!
oh that looks super awesome
Try cutting an acrylic sheet and bend it with a heat gun for the prototype, great videos 👌👌
Hello Tom, thank you for showing us and teaching us your knowledge, you made the dream of many people to optimize and create a functional system by simplifying the technology in a clean and efficient design for an electric bicycle, please you could put the parts and assemblies flat to make the pieces with your measurements and specifications a greeting from Colombia
lookup what a jackshaft is for 2 stroke motorized bikes. it will allow you to use all your gears on the bike. its a game changer.
Or just slap on a bafang or any old mid-drive motor. You can also use all the gears on an electric bike, with the right motor load location.
I have my own motorised bike with a two stroke petrol engine, the disk brakes help lots. You need to have the batteries being recharged by pedalling the bike like it was designed.
razor e300 scooters can be had on gumtree for about 30 quid (once the lead acid batteries are dead), they are great for modding and have an almost motor bike like tubular chassis. loads of v. cheap dc motors and speed controllers on ebay for them.
Should get a bike seat shock absorber also would help on pot holes and a smoother ride since only your front has a shock absorber.
I like Your projects.
Best regards.
Paulo - From Portugal
On the old bike you had caliper brakes (not V-Brakes) which are sometimes quite bad. However, modern road bike caliper brakes (e.g. the Shimano Ultegra R8000) can be quite good. Brake pads shouldn’t wear that quickly, get some green Swissstop or salmon Koolstop brake pads and they should brake much better, especially in wet or cold conditions.
I always had trouble keeping the belt on with this setup. When I absolutely had to hit a large hole or bump the tensioner would move enough to let the belt get tossed off. I was going to use higher wall pulleys and some kind of roller stop on the back of the belt. I never got around to it...
Very cool design, although using a seperate idler and tensioner feels really wrong. Maybe you can use the tip of the idler arm as a tensioner by adding a small movable segment.
You can make a basic thread tapper by cutting slots into the screw.
This is why engineering is cool. I'm inspired to say the least.
I would attach the idler pulley with a clamp around the frame, i think the bolts holding the bracket for the pulley will be a little on the weak side.
ayyyyyyy voodoo Bizango 29er. I rate you for getting that, I got the voodoo bantu. Also a great way to spend £520
Why don't you attach the bottom of the idler to the frame as well? Just to spread the load a little more and not put it all on the motor mount. Wouldn't be hard to do since the idler is almost touching the frame anyways. I think a little 3D printed bracket would help a lot taking load off of that motor mount.
Looking forward to see how it all turns out! Cheers!
Seems like a good design, except for the obscenely long idler pulley arm, on spacers no less. Unless you attach that to the frame on several points that arm will probably twist into pretzels under full load.
Looks good Tom, cant whate to see more progress 🖒
An average bicycle chain takes an amount of torque greater than your body weight, multiplied by the length of that crank arm on the pedals. And I'd guess that kicking out as hard as you can with your full body weight behind it is almost 3x your body weight in force for a very brief moment. So if the motor puts out less than that in peak torque, it should be ok on the chain driveline.
In my past experience, I've never snapped a chain. (Never had a really overly worn out or one of those gram-saver ultra-light deals. So I suppose it can't be completely ruled out.) However I've stripped the hub threads where it connects to the sprocket set a few times by doing wheelies from a dead-stop in a hill-climber gear. Young and stupid then, and then the bike shop got something different than aluminum for the wheel hub the third time. (If I were to guesstimate from that scenario, it'd be something like 500ft/lbs at the crank, and multiplied by whatever that ratio was.)
Your driveline looks easier to work out than going through the chain for other reasons. However that may give you some numbers to come up in estimation if you reconsider it.
roboZ starrr
1 second ago
noice, glad to see new bike w/brakes and you made a ridge to prevent belt from slipping off main gear & no nylon tie strapping to the
spokes. you may want to consider adding a wheel guard to prevent the belt from wrapping itself in the wheel if it ( unfortunately ) broke /fell off. also wondering, if the belt did break under load would the motor over-rev up and "spun" the bearings, only takes a moment
( I've spun many ) . . . and/or the controller won't fry (can handle that momentary spike in power ). good luck
its interesting you bring up a potential issue of the motor spinning up and "catching the freewheeling hub" if you think about it, its no different to what your feet do on the pedals, the hub can survive serious torque, think of what torque you apply when really pushing hard up a hill. and that's short bursts of energy so the force is substantially higher.
the motor/esc would cope fine with the instant loading of torque, after all, whats the difference between no torque instantly to full torque, and all-ready being at full torque.