The Future of the Second Avenue Subway - My Thoughts | Transit Talk
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- The Second Avenue Subway is one of the most anticipated subway expansions in New York City. Plans for this line have existed for over a century ago, and only three stations have been built for the line so far. Many people question whether the full line will be able to see the light of day. In today's video, let's talk about the good, the bad, and the future of the Second Avenue Subway.
MUSIC USED:
Norman Sann - Don't Slip on the Drip (Instrumental Version)
MSEC - Good Day
LAKEY INSPIRED - Blue Boi
Jeff Kaale (X I X X) - Skate
KaizanBlue - Remember
NBHD NICK - Summertime in NY (Instrumental Version)
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0:00 Introduction
0:34 Phase 1
1:07 Design of the Line
2:30 Phase 2
3:46 Phase 3
5:11 The Elephant in the room
7:02 Outerborough Expansions: Queens
7:35 Outerborough Expansions: Brooklyn
9:03 Outerborough Expansions: The Bronx
10:17 125 St Crosstown 
Авто/Мото
My grandkids would have grandkids before this is done 😂
There REALLY needs to be a 79th St Station for the M79+ SBS, the 15 block space is just terrible.
I agree
I'm glad that you are definitely back as well. when you get a chance read my comments all right.
The Bad news that the Q T trains can not go to the Bronx all the way up to Gun Hill Road where the 8 trains used to run under neath the 2 5 trains because the BMT and the iND trains is to big and wide. The Good news is the old 8 Third Ave Elevated line could definitely work in the south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster all the way up to Gun Hill Road. They definitely have plans for the Q T trains running across west side 125 street and then 137 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line.
Totally!
@@leecornwell5632 The [P] & {PT} should run on the IND Webster Avenue Elevated Line into Westchester County. The should run from Manhattan Beach-MacKenzie Street to Fordham Plaza, while the (N) should run from 18th Avenue to Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard. The [Q] shouldn't serve the BMT 2nd Avenue Line, as that should instead be the {QT}. The Olinville Shuttle should be added to serve a transfer between the [2], [P], [U], & {PT}.
As a teenager I used to always imagine Transit having a Tremont Avenue crosstown line in the Bronx to better serve that borough from River Park Towers all the way to Throggs Neck by the cemetery. On my old hagstrom street map I had the route laid out with local & express service. I have to share it with you one day.
Maybe a light rail
The Bronx will never get new transit. The city hates us.
I don't really have any problems with the 106th Street station. Not only is it a short distance from 103rd Street and 110th Street (which you pointed out), but that section of 106th Street actually has a bus route. What I take issue with is the lack of a 79th Street station, given the importance of that street (just look at the M79!).
I really love the idea of the (T) going on the Fulton Line. For years, I always thought it would be a good idea for the (C) train to go to Lefferts Blvd but a lot of people thought it was a bad idea because it would be switching tracks too much since only the express tracks keep going after Euclid Avenue. The (T) train serving the local tracks instead of the (C) would solve this problem perfectly.
The [T] shouldn't & should instead be the [Y] on the BMT Fulton Street Elevated Line. The [T] should run to Staten Island directly from Hanover Square.
this is a suprisingly good take imo as the staten island is just so forgotten and giving a line to it allows staten island to gain more traction and be densified :) i just hope that the mta would triple track at least some portions of the 2nd ave line cuz its just such a convient reroute @@bennythepenny5831
I think your right about the express route. I think the T should go to Red Hook, since they wanted to extend the W there in the 2025-2045 plan. It could run from Smith 9 st stop (transfer to the F and G) to 137-City College with a connection to the 1. For the Express V train. It would start at Hanover Square and be the inverse of the F line. It would run with the F and would turn local and at 36 st. With the M and the R. Now it can interesting if this new train used the old Rockaway Beach branch. So the V would run from Rockaway Beach 116- Hanover Square. The V would be around 35 stops, which is doable. I mean the Far Rockaway - Inwood is 37 stops. It could work.
The [V] should return to the IND 6th Avenue Line. The should run from Stuyvesant Heights-Bainbridge Street to JFK Airport-TWA Hotel, while the (V) should run from 2nd Avenue to Jamaica-Atlantic Avenue. The should run from Bronx Park to Dyker Beach Bark-86th Street, while the (M) should run from College Point-5th Avenue to Fort Hamilton Parkway. The should run from Graniteville-Richmond Avenue to Little Bay Park-Cross Island Parkway, while the (R) Should run from Bay Ridge-95th Street to Willets Point-World’s Fair Marina.
I think extending the T to the Bronx is a better idea. While Express service could work. If you have stops that are every 8-13 blocks you'll be okay without express service
@@logik_08 As a Bronxite, no.
@@peskypigeonx I live in the bronx too, I take the 41 on a daily basis. It is overcrowded as hell and not much can be done about it. The only 2 options to ease crowding is a Tram Via Webster or the T going to Gun hill.. this "Q via 125th" makes No sense to me. Yes the corridor is crowded, yes it needs faster service. Again, Either Convert the M125 into a Tram or Make 125th buses only (iike 181st)
@@logik_08 After thinking about it, it is needed, but I don’t think the time it’d take would be worth it. If it is done, I’m not mad.
Alternative suggestion. Instead of building a 2nd Ave on the 7 Line, extend the 42 St shuttle to 2nd Ave.
Only 2nd Ave Express I would suggest to split of after Grand St, and turn onto the abandoned tracks under Canal St. Then Serve Chambers St and enter the Montague St. Tunnelor even more fancy. Follow up very old plans for tracks from Chambers St up and over the Brooklyn Bridge.
125th is a HUGE problem and they NEED to get a crosstown line above central park.
This expansion was great for ppl who work on the upper east side. There are a few hospitals that employ alot of folks in the area. It saves some commute time and probably eases congestion on lines like the 6 as opposed to using the 6 line. Ppl who live uptown and up in the Bx still gotta do what they gotta do. But for ppl who live in BK or other parts in lower manhattan, that Q line expansion was clutch.
I’m glad you’re back bro
Another suggestion. The Q train should run to City College/137 st. (Making stops at the 125 st stations) to Coney Island. Let the T start at Hanover Square. When it gets to 125th Street, it should go up to the Bronx via the 6 line. After the Whitlock Ave. the T splits off to East 180th Street for a connection (there are abandoned tracks there). Then heads to Co-Op City (similar to the abandoned Triboro line) ending at Bay Plaza. This would be ~33 stops. Next the “V” line could start at Roosevelt Ave. (lower platform). Run local till 36st., then run with the F for two stops until the 55th/2nd Ave stop. After Hanover Square, they would build a revision to the Montague St. tunnel with the R. Let it run with the R to Court Street, Jay Street and DeKalb Ave. After DeKalb Ave., there is a provision from DeKalb to Lafayette Street they could build. It would run local with the C until Euclid Ave. This could let the C run to Lefferets for an extra 7 stops. The C would remain local as C trains can take up to 10mins to come. Though, the new route for the V train would be Euclid Ave. to Roosevelt Ave. which would be 34 stops. This is doable. (Btw if Woodhaven Blvd can be converted to an Express station, maybe the V train could start there.)
The 10 trains could definitely replace the furmer 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line in the south Bronx Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx and make the same exact stops up to Gun hill road and Batincal gardens Frordam plaza and Battery park place or chatmam Square or south Ferry under ground on Thrid Avenue.
Thanks for the video!
VERY well done, great narration, great visuals, I love it !!!
Thanks!
The T trains could definitely replace the frumer 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line up to Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx making the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line stops.
The comeback of Transit Talk NYC.
The original layout for that line was supposed to be local express service. But these new contractors in my opinion messed up the whole original layout. If our was Subway forefathers could come back to life and see how the system looks now I'm sure they would be very disappointed especially at this 2nd Avenue line project.
I went to New York a week ago, and I rode so many of the subways there
Also for the long walk connections, put some retail space, also some people will actually use the walk from 2 Avenue to Lex to get out of inclimate weather
Well done video, thanks for posting. I heard Q pase 2 is supposed to be running by 2029....I won't hold my breath, lol
I use 72nd st station all the time i love it and i love the transfer at LEX
Excellent video!
At Broad Street's (J) termination track, there's a switch in the Brooklyn direction where a train doesn't have to pass the station just to turn around. If you stop the trains from doing that, then the SAS has a chance to enter Brooklyn through the Montague tunnel. I ridden the train before to Broad Street and saw the train going backwards and was confused, but yeah it's there. Plus all the MTA would have to do is build a short tunnel to get from Hanover Sq to the Montague to finalize everything.
Nice! I’ve always been wondering why it’s taking the MTA so long to build the Phase 2 stations. The 3 stations for Phase 1 opened in 2017 so the next 3 stations for Phase 2 I think should have opened a year or two after that. For Phase 3 and 4, they also could run Skip Stop trains like the J and Z.
Skip stop sucks
It’s all about the Benjamins. When you’re spending a couple billion dollars a mile, it’s hard to get funding for much. It’ll be 30+ years before the currently planned phase 4 is done.
Skip-stop trains are ludicrous. Here’s how the rest of the world does it: one line, one route, stops at every station. No “trains”, but lines. For example, a Blue Line with ten stops, with trains stopping at every station. No other “trains” running along that line. No rerouting. Just one one line, one name, one service pattern, every day of the year. You people suck!
THEY SHOULD NEVER BECAUSE SKIP-STOP SUCKS
For the second avenue subway to have four tracks requires multiple branches and connection to other existing lines throughout main line and on to outer boroughs as well as new set of lines to make these changes and this has to be plan and build with cutting or compromising the other service
9:28 The IND Concourse Line should serve the to Co-op City, while the should run to Throgs Neck-Schurz Avenue via the IND Bruckner Boulevard Line & IND Throgs Neck Elevated Line, while the should run to Bay Terrace-Little Bay Park via the IND Bruckner Boulevard Line & Throgs Neck Bridge Line.
The Pelham 6 line could definitely could be extended to co op city. The B D trains would be a long ride. Let the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave South Bronx and 125th street connecting to the 4 5 6 Q T and the Metro North railroad trains and just make a elevated line 8 trains. The 10 trains could definitely run to Hunts point and throggs Neck Avenue Elevated line.
@@leecornwell5632 The [Q] should return to the BMT Astoria Line, while service on the BMT Broadway Line onto the BMT 2nd Avenue Line should be replaced by the {QT}. The {YF} should serve the IND 6th Avenue Line onto the BMT 2nd Avenue Line.
This is cool great video
The T line doesn't need an express track!!! The stations are spaced out. Regarding the Island platform and the grand mezzanine on the 2nd Ave, I actually love it. They have to dig all the way down to the track level so it makes sense to make the mezzanine grand. I'm hoping they change the Q to go to W125th Street by the ABCD trains but I doubt it.
5:17 good point! why they don't do a four track line like lot of other lines.
We could add a set of express tracks, although they won't be on 2nd Ave itself.
V might use 63rd street tunnel to sunnyside yard (then all the way through LIRR main line or lower Montauk or other alignments you like) as the space of subway under northern blvd has been built as East Side Access’s en passant.
It would be great if the third Avenue el ( bronx) would be back in service to extend to throgg’s neck ! It would be also nice if the culver shuttle would be brought back to run along the second Avenue line ( along with the F train) and have more stations towards Coney Island
Love how you added that r46 to the thumbnail. Kinda saddens me knowing the r46s won’t be able to see the (T) line.
Agreed
All ntt will run on it and the r68 will be retired but see phase two
They need a extension of the 6 train to Co-op city and place the station between I-95 and Baychester Ave facing Bartow Ave.
it would alleviate all those buses from all those people, help with the pollution from exhaust and bring a community together with they city.
Very nicely done.
My biggest disappointment is the lack of express service options
The [Y], {YF}, & {YT} should run express on the BMT 2nd Avenue Line, while the [I], [T], & {QT} should run local.
My biggest disappointments is they torn down the Thrid Avenue Elevated line that really messed up the south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx that took people from point A to point B. Blame the old president LaGuardia and Robert mosses that had foust the TA workers to tair down All the extra elevated lines down wich it would of been running today Blame the old president LaGuardia and Robert mosses could not stand for no extra iRT elevated and the iND BMT lines. The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line could definitely run between Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Ave Bronx and Queens plaza connecting to the 7 N W trains. That's what the Mayor Eric Adams said before he got sword in the office. Eric Adams said that south Bronx definitely needs Transportation besides the buses and that's the Thrid Avenue Elevated line wich that shouldn't be never been talking down in the first place. My biggest question is this what's is the cence of rebuilding the second Ave subway line and not rebuilding the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back up?
If they want the second Ave subway line back fine Adleast plan rebuilding the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back up also .
It’s probably still possible to build express tracks on the existing portion of the second ave line. Also, in the abandoned tunnels that may be used for phase 2, there’s already a third track built. We’ll see what the MTA does about that though
Ridiculous idiocy on your part. Every train should stop at every station. If you don’t like it, walk, you fat, lazy American swine!
Of course there is never talk of extending existing lines in Queens. There is only talk of adding service where it is already plentiful. Over half of Queens has no subway service. The 7 line has not been extended even one millimeter since the Main St. station opened over 90 years ago. The Hillside Ave line has not been extended one inch since the 179 St station opened in the early 1950s. Governor Rockefeller had plans to extend a line from the Woodhaven Blvd IND station along the LI Expressway to Springfield Blvd. This never materialized. Greece, which does not have the monetary resources of the United States, is aggressively adding stations to the subway system in Athens.
Yes! Queens needs a new line, or an extension
The Answer might be using a Big Bertha Seattle TBM design that way you have the T 2nd ave local upper tunnel Lower Tunnel V 2nd express transfer between the two tracks using the Barcelona Metro setup stack tunnel switches. Making the Q train end at 135th st this can allow B & D trains to run on 2nd ave via 125th to Lexington Ave 63rd street then 6th ave line with the F train from there to 47-50th street
Regarding express trains, if we don’t have enough money to build four tracks, Maybe designing express stations like four tracks with two island platforms could be an expediency. Also, adding outer bypassing tracks in some local stations.
That's how it's done on many lines in Tokyo. Works perfectly fine there but it needs very strict adherence to schedule.
The 77th Street Station on the Lexington Avenue line should be 79th Street. Just extended the platforms North to 79 Street and put a new entrance/exit there.
I think the 125 crosstown should only go to the ABCD. It would be too costly to go into the Manhattan Valley and connect with an elevated 1 station
I think that there should be a 1st Av Station on the (7) line, but there will be entrances and exits on both 1st and 2nd Avs. This station would also have a transfer to 42 St on the 2nd Av line.
Great idea, hopefully it happens. The BMT 2nd Avenue Line deserves a better transfer. I hope that all stations close together & especially in lower Manhattan get free, in-system transfers.
Tenth avenue is going to happen and first avenue is proposed and telve avenue is a possibility
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 What's telve?
On 42nd street. Moving sidewalk can be installed. It was proposed for what is times Square shuttle. I think, that the shuttle should be replaced with moving sidewalk.
I’m all for the outer borough expansion. I can’t see all that time work and money going into this project for only one borough. They could’ve just used light rail for that. If new tracks need to be constructed, then the third Avenue line in the Bronx would be great for that. The MTA’s 20 year plan includes a train being sent to Red Hook. The T could be used for that too. The T can maybe also slightly run with the N/W into Queens and can turn down Astoria or Ditmars Blvd into LaGuardia.
How about a connection from 2nd ave to Culver Line possible adding a full time express in Brooklyn with and another line destination
My thoughts were to created a new line possible bring the V back. From kings highway on the F in Brooklyn running local while the F ran express in Brooklyn to Jay Street Metrotech. From Jay street to 2nd ave on the F. Than at 2nd Avenue and Houston Street branch off to join the T line to 63rd Street in order to reduce some the trian congestion on 6th where we have M service. where it will rejoin the F. It will run express and branch off and run down the Rockaway Branch. It can be a 24 hour line from Church Avenue to Rockaway and extended to King Hwy during rush hours. That my Idea how to bring the 2nd ave line into Brooklyn that won't cost to much to build.
I’ve heard proposals for a subway to Throggs neck, and extending the T to there would certainly be nice. Maybe that, combined with extending it to Coney Island via the 4th ave and sea beach line, could allow sea beach express service to be a thing. It has 4 tracks, might as well use them. And it can run 4th ave local service, because the R does a terrible job of that on its own.
The residents of TN are heavily opposed to a subway connection. It’s one of the more affluent parts of the Bronx, and they want to remain “separated” from the rest of the borough.
They can add a metro mover like at the airport to connect people from 42nd and 2nd to grand central
The original plan for the 2nd Avenue line would have been a 4 track line going all the way to Southern Manhattan and it would have had local and express stations. But when they finally built the portion where the Q train runs that 4 track idea was scrapped and only 2 tracks where built so that scraped any hopes of express service on 2nd Avenue. I wish this line was completed at the early part of the 20th century.
Couldn’t they try to send express tracks via 3rd Ave in Manhattan to 3rd Ave in the bronx then to co-op city. Then the express tracks can run into Brooklyn via the Williamsburg bridge and take over the J/Z line. Then have J trains take over the myrtle Ave line.
So express K trains will run from Co-op city- Bay plaza to Jamaica center. With peak direction express from Burke Ave to 3rd Ave 149, then from Marcy Ave to Jamaica center. So K trains would have to run like 20tph so there can be two different direction peak express trains on the K line.
That's not a bad idea, because there was a Manhattan portion of the old 3 Ave EL that was torn down in the mid 1950's, but it all about cost.
Chances are Rebuilding the brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line back in the south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx. Never Rebuilding another elevated line in Manhattan again.
@@leecornwell5632
I feel like the MTA should tair down Jerome Avenue, White Plains and Pelham elevated lines and replace them with new modern 4 track subways to allow for all day bi-directional local and express subway service.
The island platforms of Phase 1 increase flexibility. Both tracks are bidirectional and a train can run in any direction at anytime.
It's annoying 72nd is 2 track instead of 3 like they planned.
@@Joesolo13So bad that there is only 2 instead of 3 track. Like how they would connect the T to the Q
I like the idea of the South Street seaport station.
This is interesting, though I have my own takes on it. I do believe that here should still be two segments of the SAS in the Bronx, though in my take, the main branch continues up 3rd Avenue to at least 163rd Street. There, it would actually continue up Boston Road to 169th Street. There it would continue via Crotona Avenue to Fordham Road. That's the first part of this sector. From there it could cut through the Bronx Park and then continue East via Allerton Avenue to Boston Road again, where it will continue along that street to Dyre Avenue, a few blocks walking distance from Co-op City. A replacement for the Dyre Avenue Line, this will provide new service to the South Bronx with connections to the existing White Plains Road Line and an extended Concourse Line, which will provide direct service to Co-op City.
Meanwhile branching would be built off the main SAS line at 163rd Street where the line would continue to operate curving East along Prospect Avenue and Longwood Avenue making a stop at Southern Blvd for a transfer to the (6) again the line would then continue to operate along Lafayette Avenue to East Tremont Avenue. This line would better serve Southeast Bronx by providing new coverage for them.
I do hope Phase 3 of the Second Avenue Subway features express service like most of the other lines running vertically in Manhattan, otherwise the line will stick out like a sore thumb.
I want to see the T be an express line. As for the local lines, they should be known as the U and Y trains. 55th, 34th, and 23rd Streets would be local stations. There should also be 2 additional stations: 6th Street (as a local stop) and 64th Street (for the T).
I imagine 55th street will be a bit like 50th Street on the C and E, where the Y will have its own platform before splitting off towards Queens to run along with the F on the 63rd Street tunnel and into the Queens Blvd line, terminating at Jamaica Center with the E, while the U runs alongside the N, R, and W on the 59th Street tunnel, but after Queens Plaza, it runs along a new branch towards LaGuardia Airport, with the G by its side.
The T will have its own platform at 125th Street as splits off from the Q towards the Bronx, running along Webster Avenue and eventually Gun Hill Road with the D before terminating at Co-Op City-Bay Plaza. The Q will continue along 125th Street before terminating at 125th Street on the 1.
As for the southern part, after Grand Street, the T and Y will continue towards Brooklyn, but will split after Court Street, where the T will be running along the A and C on the Fulton Street Line as an express train, terminating at Euclid Avenue, so the C can be extended to Lefferts and won’t have to be entirely enclosed by the A line, while the Y will run along with the F on the Culver line, terminating at Kings Highway.
The U, meanwhile, will run towards Chambers Street on the J where it will terminate, but during Rush Hours it’ll run along the pre-2010 M rush hour route, where it’ll run local alongside the R on 4th Avenue, and then with the D on West End, terminating at Bay Parkway.
These should be the stations on the BMT 2nd Avenue Line:
Ⓜ 125th Street [Y] {YF} {YT}
Ⓜ 116th Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 110th Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 103rd Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 96th Street [T] [Y] {YF} {QT} {YT}
Ⓜ 91st Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 86th Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 79th Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 72nd Street [T] [Y] {QT} {YF} {YT}
Ⓜ 66th Street [T] {QT}
Ⓜ 59th Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ 50th Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ 42nd Street [I] [T] [Y] {YF} {YT}
Ⓜ 34th Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ 28th Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ 23rd Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ 18th Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ 14th Street [I] [T] [Y] {YF} {YT}
Ⓜ Saint Marks Place [I] [T]
Ⓜ Houston Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ Grand Street [I] [T]
Ⓜ Chatham Square [I] [T] {YT}
Ⓜ Frankfort Street-Brooklyn Bridge [I] [T]
Ⓜ Maiden Lane [I] [T]
Ⓜ Hanover Square [I] [T] {YT}
Ⓜ Battery Park [I]
There should be a lower level added for express service. The [Y] should run express.
Sas express is too expensive
As someone who lives in the upper east side, we really need this the 456 and q s as re good but atenta really useful bc they are only in the center and to get anywhere you just have to go to midtown and it’s really difficult etc.
Walking a few blocks is difficult? Get outta here!
Really wish there was a stop in the east village. What’s the point of a local train that doesn’t stop for 14 blocks?
I Believe that SAS should extend further toward the Bronx,but this needs to be a 4-track route to be effective. That's why I think they should at least try to build the new SAS express tracks underneath the existing ones north of 63rd or at least on a nearby street, with the intention of providing express service to the Bronx. Two 4-track branch would split off, with one route going northward via 3rd Avenue to 163rd Street, and then along Boston Road to 169th street and Crotona Avenue to Fordham Road. From there this line would continue under Bronx Park and operate along Allerton Avenue for a bit and travel along Laconia Avenue until Burke Avenue, where it would connect with an extended D train via Burke Avenue, and then along Boston Road to Dyre Avenue. This line effectively replaces the IRT Dyre Avenue 5 train, with 5 service instead terminating at Wakefield-241st Street. Another 4-track line would turn east along 149th Street, then cross through Hunts Point and serve the Southeast Bronx via Randall Avenue and eventually Lafayette Aveune. This should truly help ease crowding along Lexington Avenue due to availability of new fast rapid transit options in these areas.
For a Brooklyn extension I do agree with having SAS go via The IND Fulton Street Line to simplify things over there. However, with a 4 track SAS, I do propose having the other two tracks take over B and D service via Manhattan Bridge, allowing for the former two to better serve Northern Brooklyn (maybe set the stage for a new South 4th Street Line?)
A rather interesting set of ideas about the new Second Avenue Line. To be honest, I do not think the T needs an express equivalent based on the confirmed route (Hanover Square to Harlem 125th St when phase 4 is completed). I do however have some ideas on what they could do with it.
- Along the existing route under construction, they could add an additional station between 55th and 72nd streets (my idea is to put the extra station on 61st St as it would sit on a relatively central point between Lexington Avenue 63rd St stop (served by F & Q), Lexington Avenue 59th St station (served by N, R, W, 4, 5 & 6) and Roosevelt Island Tramway). All of the above could be connected via free transfers between one another.
- As for expansion on each end, I don’t think they could do anything further south of Hanover Square as it is sitting in Lower Manhattan facing away from anywhere in Brooklyn. As for expanding up north though, what they could do is run it from 125th St to University Heights in The Bronx via 135th St (served by 2 & 3, but T would need separate infrastructure since letters and numbers cannot share infrastructure), 148th St (existing terminal for the 3), 155th St (served by the B (peak service) & D (off-peak)) then under Highbridge Park and through a new tunnel under Harlem River and a new subway station underneath University Heights Metro-North Railroad stop.
The tail tracks at Hanover Square are pointed towards Brooklyn so there is one thing that they can do for an extension that way: connecting it to the IND Fulton Street Line, which is severely running under capacity right now.
@@TheRailLeaguer Very interesting. Maybe you could do something to Brooklyn in that case. I agree with the idea of putting it onto the Fulton St Line.
I agree with your station for the East 60's. The gap between 55th and 72nd Streets is simply too long for such a densely populated area.
_
@@brmnyc The gap in the station spacing there is to accommodate the junction with the 63rd Street Tunnel.
The Q running under 125th would be cool but I see more towards st Nicolas rather than Broadway and that’s cause the bedrock on that part isn’t strong enough otherwise the 1 train would have its 125th street stop underground as opposed to above it.
I think the last stop should be south ferry for a transfer to the 1 r w bowling Green for transfer to the 4 5 or even stop at south ferry and continue to wtc or battery park for the last stop for extension fun maybe along 7th av in Brooklyn and into Staten Island following the expressway to the Goethals Bridge
just make it run through atlantic/barclays... i dont get why the a/c/g dont run through it, its literally 2 blocks difference and you gotta swipe your metrocard again, it makes no sense to me
Mta please make a free transfer
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 idc ab the free transfer i js hate walking to another station, it makes me hate the a c ang g trains tbh
They should consider expanding the Times Sq shuttle one stop to 2nd avenue to fix the 42nd street transfer on the T train
I would like to see a video entitled Transit lines taken down that would have been a perfect fit for today. When you decide to make that video please get in contact with me I would love to be a part of that.
Once they added T train, new V should be express 2nd Avenue Subway from 125th ST to Hanover ST.
The next phase of the Second Ave project will be, extended to East 125th St and the phase of the project will be extending it to the MetroNorth Harlem station.
I Believe SAS should be extended further toward the Bronx, but this needs to be a 4-track route to be effective. That's why I think they should at least try to build the new SAS express tracks underneath the existing ones north of 63rd or at least on a nearby street, with the intention of providing express service to the Bronx.
The (Q) and (T) extends to the Bronx runs elevated via the 3rd avenue bridge then underground to 3rd avenue 138th street to connect with the (6), and with the (2) and (5) at 3rd avenue 149th street
Then two 4-track branch would split off, with the (T) going northward via 3rd avenue to 163rd street, and then along Boston Road to 169th street and Crotona Avenue to Fordham Road. From there this line would continue under Bronx Park and operate along Allerton Avenue for a bit and travel along Laconia Avenue until Burke Avenue, where it would connect with an extended D train via Bruke Avenue, and then along Boston Road to Dyre Avenue. This line effectively replaces the IRT Dyre Avenue (5) train, with (5) service instead terminating at Wakefield-241st Street.
Another 4-track line which will be served by the (Q) would turn east along 149th Street, then cross through Hunts Point and serve the Southeastern Bronx via Randall Avenue. This should truly help ease overcrowding along Lexington Avenue due to availability of new fast rapid transit options in these areas.
I believe I commented on this in a previous video before? But as far as an extension into The Bronx, I have always felt strong about the Central Bronx needing a Subway Line. So extended the Q into The Bronx along 3rd Ave would be ideal extending the line to connecting with the D train past 205th Street because I'm still a strong advocate for extending the D Train across either Gun Hill Road or Burke Ave into Co-Op City and building a Semi-Major transportation hub there to connect with the new Metro North extension and potentially expanding the 6 Train Line one extra stop past Pelham Bay Park into Co-Op City as well. Co-Op City has gone FAR TOO LONG without a major Subway Line. The Metro North is a step in the right direction, but let's not stop there, extend the D and 6 Lines in Co-Op City with the Q Train being a ventricle part of that.
I agree 100%
I think the 125th street crosstown line should curve up to city college and have a transfer point to the 1 train
No should go to the Bronx to 149 st Grand Concourse not 125 Lex
I do have a better idea for it. The 125th Street Line is obviously pointing west, and I also noticed that there are very few crossings between NY and NJ. Perhaps rather than make it turn upward along another street, it should contribute across the Hudson River right into Palisades Park. This could add an additional mass transit connection between NY and NJ and ease some congestion on the George Washington Bridge. Yeah it might require cooperation between two states and other hurdles to overcome but if you play your cards right, it works out for everyone.
@@williamerazo3921 the busses suck on 125th street
@@williamerazo3921 No . Because one the Q T trains is definitely planning to run west side 125 to connect to the 2 3 trains and the A C D B trains and then the next and last stop 🛑 is 137 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line. The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line would definitely work because the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line used to run between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx and south Ferry back in 1955. The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line could definitely be the last stop at East Harlem 125 street connecting to the 4 5 6 Q T and the Metro North. Let the IRT 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line would go to the Bronx 138 street connecting to the 6 Pelham line and then 149 street to connect to the 2 5 trains all the way back to Gun Hill Road connecting to the 2 5 trains again. That's another reason why the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to come back is because sometimes during the weekends the 2 5 trains may not be running fully between Wakefield 241 street and Flatbush Ave Brooklyn because they have to do some track work and other constructions . they definitely need to take some heavy load of the bus operators and some cars and trucks of the road I'm keeping it 100% real I'm not going to tell you no lies.
Also the T and U would branch int Queens either along Northern Blvd or Astoria Blvd into LaGuardia or College Point and then into the Bronx along Tremont
The whole "Phase" planning was a huge mistake. They should have just planned to continue working on the entire line. We are now five years after Phase 1 opened and not one bit of work has started on Phase 2, they're still trying to figure out the money. They should have been using the existing tunnels north of 96th Street as the basis for continuing north and built the 106th and 116th stations by now. The hard part of Phase 2 will be the curve west and the 125th St. station.
They also should have just continued deep tunnel boring south of 63rd St. The actual tunnel boring only took about a year to do between 63rd and 96th. It's those enormous stations and ventilation towers that take up all the time to build. The tunnel boring machines could have made it all the way down to City Hall by now.
Furthermore, if New York State and the MTA can't get construction costs under control then all of this is moot--it will never get done. All the arguments about New York City being "expensive" and "crowded" and blah blah are totally bogus. Tell that to London, Paris, and Tokyo--very crowded and expensive First World cities that managed to build extensive additions at a far lower cost per mile than NYC. First thing that needs to be dealt with are obsolete union rules that require far more workers relative to other complex projects in these other cities.
I agree with extending the line further west on 125th--makes total sense to connect to the West Side lines IRT and IND Lines for people from Uptown and the Bronx needing to get to the East Side.
My personal opinion is to extend it to Brooklyn via Bergen st and liberty av to crescent st and for the Bronx via 3 Av to Fordham rd
Unless a completely new set of tunnels exclusively for express service were excavated under the existing Second Avenue tunnels, I don't we will ever see express service on the Second Avenue Line.
I think it will be another 100 years to see phase 3 or 4 I would love to see the line end at south ferry
It would be interesting if you spoke about the possibility of reviving the North Shore line in Staten Island and sending (T) and (W) trains there, just like the Montague St Tunnel diverges on the Manhattan end to either Broadway or Nassau St lines, there can perhaps be another point of divergence, one leading to 4 Av and another leading into the North Shore line. Obviously distance is a problem here, as Staten Island and Manhattan are around 5 miles apart, but a tunnel could perhaps be built directly to Staten Island south of Whitehall St. The (W) no longer would need to terminate at Whitehall St and might even be able to have its own yard along with the (T) in Arlington in SI. This is all obviously just a pipe dream and might never happen, but is interesting to wonder of the possibilities.
Five miles is extremely extremely expensive and insanely inefficient and from 59 street Brooklyn lower level the Nancy going to staten is and the wolf takes over sea beach all times and daytime hours fourth avenue express and then the n is a shuttle during late night in si
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 would indeed benefit Staten Island tho
@@ShawnLamont1997 and the diamond n will be supported and non peak direction express in queens and more w trains on sas with the q and support the 125 street crosstown line
Good idea. More tunnels. To Staten Island. Extend the subway to Jersey.
My biggest problem is the train platform doesn’t online with the gap for my wheelchair.
How about make the T train skip 23 & 34 sts have the M turn teal and run on the 63 st tracks and bring back the Orange V train.
This won’t fix the m train though
how did you add the new stations onto the nyc map at 2:55
I edited it! You should check out my second channel, where I edit the maps.
I've been thinking for years that the line in the Bronx should be extended via 3rd Avenue like you said. Run east under Gun Hill Road but continue going east all the way to Bay Plaza (Co-Op City Bvd & Bartow Ave last stop) above ground. It'll relieve crowding on not only the 5 train, but also the Bx12 bus. You can take the train from Fordham to go to Bay Plaza instead of taking the crowded Bx12
Reservations for the eight train
@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 Not anymore, the should run from Parkchester to Rockaway Park-Beach 105th Street, while the (8) should run from Parkchester to Flatlands Avenue.
The 10 trains could definitely replace the furmer 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line up to Gun hill road Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx making the same exact stops like the 8 used to do. Have the 10 trains run under ground on Thrid Avenue up to battery park place or chatmam Square or south Ferry.
I want an express line on 2 Av to be the (U) This line would SKIP all the stations shown below.
Chatam Sq
23 St
34 St
72 St
86 St
106 St
Shown below are SOUTHERN branches for 2 Av.
(U) to Staten Island
(T) on Fulton St (to get to Fulton, it will use the outer 2 tracks at Hoyt - Scherm. Sts, and it will run around the Court St station (it will run straight from Hanover Sq. to Hoyt - Scherm. Sts)). This will also have the Fulton St line extended underground, where the (T) and (C) would run (idc where this extension goes)
Shown below are NORTHERN branches for 2 Av.
(Q) crosstown extension along 125 St to St. Nicholas Av, and connect w/ the (A/B/C/D) lines
(T) will be extended on the Concourse Line to 205 St, with a stop at Yankee Stadium.
(U) extension to LaGuardia Airport, splitting off of 2 Av at 116 St.
I forgot to mention that the (U) would run on a lower level while it is running on 2 Av
@@josephrosner905 You can edit the comment!
it wouldn’t allow me to do that fsr
I think that a big mistake is at 14th Street and Houston .. Instead of having line at 14st and 2nd avenue they should make it go east - and have the station connect 14th and 1st avenue (or Avenue A) Station .. this would get Subway access farther east in LES where there is currently a dead zone.
There a T train?
I like the edited R46 rollsign!
Thanks
@@TransitTalkNYC You're welcome!
The powder blue T reminds me of the powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line.
Eventually they are definitely gonna wind up rebuilding the Brand New Thrid Avenue Elevated line back in the south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx. I'm telling you.
w where do you connect with the110th strret buses.
The buses are at 116th Street and at 106th Street, not at 110th Street.
Frankly, I hope the southern phase of the 2nd Ave Subway never gets built. Doing so would permanently halve the capacity of the Broadway Express tracks. At some point in the future, after all the lines have been upgraded with CBTC, there will be a lot of extra capacity across the system that will have to be filled with route reconfigurations, specifically the elimination of reverse branches. A Q line operating at maximum capacity (~30tph) along 2nd Ave and Broadway all the way to Brighton Beach and Coney Island would ultimately carry more passengers across a larger area than a new tunnel in Manhattan that would forever run at half capacity and would NOT HAVE ITS OWN YARD. Those billions of dollars could be better spent on smaller capacity enhancing projects, such as new strategically located tail tracks and yards, that would enable the MTA to untangle, or "deinterline" the network (thanks Vashnook), eliminate certain routes that only exist because of a lack of yards (e.g: M, R, W, etc), and augment other routes with more trains. Additions to the network should not reduce capacity elsewhere in the network.
Well in my view I would just put Phase 3 and 4 on hold to redesign it to include extra tracks and a provision for express tracks to the Bronx. You really don’t need to scrap the southern end of the SAS, which is still needed to ease congestion in Manhattan. It also adds new coverage as well in Lower Manhattan.
@@TheRailLeaguer that's fair. I just don't want the T to block capacity on the Q. If they would be willing to spend billions to build duplicate tunnels and have new Express service on the upper east side as part of a line that runs from the Bronx to Lower Manhattan, then so be it. I believe that those billions would be better spent wringing as much capacity as possible out of the existing system before we focus on massive system expansions. But that new line sure would be nice.
Worse comes to worst and SAS P3 is built as designed it might be best to remove Broadway trains from 2 Av altogether so the T can run exclusively between 125th and Houston St. That doesn't solve the yard issue but it eliminates the potential for cascading delays from Broadway to 2 Av.
I think the absolute maximum in terms of space between stations on the NYC subway (excluding technical limitations) is 12. I think anything more, and you’re at risk of leaving a cross street behind. So I would put a station at 79th at least.
My main problem with not having any express tracks is the problem of interlining the Q and T. You really don’t want to make that same mistake of interlining again
Agreed
Interlining isn't a problem, as it is individually based.
The entire subway system needs an entire overhaul. This piece meal work is making the whole system into a bunch of random bs.
“I’m not saying you should take Lexington because it has an express”
You should take Lexington because that’s the only vertical line on the east side *to* take.
6:14 The [V] should run on the IND 6th Avenue Line.
Expand 6 train to Bay Plaza in Co Op City From Pelham Bay Park make it an underground yard and stop. The other solution would be to do above ground line from Gunhill Whiteplains road line to Co Op City/ Bay Plaza
Eight train only
All jokes aside I think Phase 3 of the Second Avenue Subway should be built with 4 tracks to allow for express service. The T could run express while a re-colored Z train handles local service. Around Grand street, the local tracks should connect to the existing M train tracks allowing Second Avenue trains to run across the Williamsburg bridge to Metropolitan Avenue. This would free up the M train which can then be used to improve service along the Culver line (all-day express service), which has a lot of excess capacity. The express tracks would go to Grand Street, using new platforms under the current B/D platforms like the current Phase 4 plans, but i would have these tracks turn off and connect to existing tracks under Canal and Centre Streets (once the Nassau Loop). This would be a better routing not just because of money saved, but also because it would run through the Fulton Center, a major transit hub, and it would allow for a cheap connection to Downtown Brooklyn.
With the T train going through Broad Street, the J train would be cut back to Chambers Street. The T would run 4th Avenue local in Brooklyn to 36 Street, then along West End to Coney Island (this would be part of a separate “de-interlining” plan for South Brooklyn that removes conflicts between trains from different trunk lines).
Having the SAS tracks connect to Nassau would not benefit anyone, but rather make service worse for the already existing lines. It’s also worth nothing that the BMT lines in Brooklyn are pretty much full so it’s impractical.
Rather, the cheapest AND most effective solution is to build the SAS line along Water Street and connect the tracks to the IND Fulton Street Line, which is currently underused and would allow for even more connections to other subway lines.
I think it would be better if it had 3 tracks because I don't see a reason why the T needs an express equivalent 24/7.
@@coolboss999 Three tracks can only do so much for any line, especially since 4 track line can benefit from express service during off-peak hours in BOTH directions.
@@TheRailLeaguer You right. My precious concourse line was SNATCHED of 4 tracks which would have arguably been very beneficial for it rn
Phases 3&4 should be easier , as due to previous expansion programs, much of the tunneling already exists. And with continued rebuilding of the east side, new station entrance locations can be added to any private development, as opposed to the need to use eminent domain for such entrances.
In the past, the construction of the 2nd ave, line was through cut and cover! Creating a huge street traffic nightmare. Today this can be avoided as tunnel boring machines are more prevalent. And only those locations where deep utility conditions( water, sewer Etc.) where remediation will be required will street access be necessary.
3:59 - Me: *wait what?*
the moment broke me...
I prefer their choice to have the 106th street station rather than a 103rd. If you live work go to school or just travel through east Harlem by train, you know how much more convenient it is to put a train at 106th rather than three blocks south. I actually don’t like the fact that the 6 has a stop there. 106 Street is serviced by the crosstown M106 bus…103rd doesn’t have a crosstown line because 103rd street isn’t a major crosstown street…106th is,
Agreed !
They need to bring the T to The Bronx to Gun Hill Road via White Plains Road it’ll have to go upstairs to the 5 line at 138th Street-Grand Concourse after 125th Street then 149th Street-Grand Concourse, 3rd Avenue-149th Street, Jackson Avenue, Prospect Avenue, Intervale Avenue, Simpson Street, Freeman Street, 174th Street, West Farms Square-East Tremont Avenue, East 180th Street, Bronx Park East, Pelham Parkway, Allerton Avenue, Burke Avenue, and then Gun Hill Road that way 2 and 5 train service along with the proposed 8 line don’t have to stop at Gun Hill Road they should also make an East 180th Street Shuttle ranging from East 180th Street and 3rd Avenue to East 189th Street Street and 3rd Avenue making a stop at East 180th Street along the 2 and 5 line.
If they are doing this, then they should have the T line Be a shuttle on weekends and have the M line Fill in.
For the 42nd st station they could extend the shuttle
It would actually be a good idea to, at the very least, extend Q train service to a portion of The Bronx. I'm not sure how far it should go tho 🧐
Ideally, Gun Hill road. And it would stop at 138th,149th,161st,167-8th,Claremont pkwy,180th,Fordham,Bedford Park and then Gun hill
@@logik_08 You have the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line could definitely do all that or the 10 trains.
@@leecornwell5632 elaborate because I don't understand what your saying right now
The [Y] & {YT} should run BMT 2nd Avenue Line service to The Bronx.
5:33 There should be a lower level added.
What happened to the sound on this video?
What happened with the sound?
Maybe a video should be made showing how a expansion of the 6 train to Co-op city can work.
The eight train should go there
OR have the 12 train run on the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back and replace the 8 trains between Gun hill road Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave South Bronx and Queens plaza connecting to the Flushing 7 line N W trains and let the 8 run to co op city. ether way the 8 or the 10 train could run to co op city mall barto Bronx because you have the Connecticut metro North coming to Pennsylvania station Manhattan Hunts point moriss parkchester and co op city mall so it would definitely make sense for the 6 to be extended to co op city.
@@leecornwell5632 leave my eight train on third Avenue
why can the T not be an Express and Local service like the 7? (but you know actually all the time in both directions)
Might not be possible to do that due to the Q sharing the line as welll
@@TransitTalkNYC I feel like the reality is the signal system is actually causing the issues not the amount of trains if we had a modern signal system then we could double the amount of trains or increase express services
11:38 Please do a video soon!
It’s not possible to run a train all the way to Broadway because of the fault lines so the train would have to terminate at st Nicolas and above ground is just out of the question because there’s not nearly enough room