As Nader says, Boeing agrees the engines were too big to properly fit under the wings. The solution would have been to raise the wings and fuselage. That would create moments about the pitch axis with high thrust during takeoff. The solution is pilot training or, if necessary, pilot conversion. Boeing choose instead to implement MCAS to automatically trim the aircraft. But they also put in anti stall features. In both crashes the planes were not stalling but MCAS said they were and took over control to fly the planes. Faulty AOA sensors should never have been allowed to let MCAS take control of the flight. Did MCAS corroborate with altimeter and differential thereof? Or with rate of climb instrumentation? Or with airspeed instrument? The planes were too fast to stall, so MCASdid the wrong things. Or deal with its conflict with ground prox? MCAS was bad software. It cannot be fixed by minding two AOA sensors instead of one. In fact what MCAS did was against aviators' desires but they were overridden.
MCAS was given far too much authority and repeatedly activated in rapid sequence. And its reliance on a single AOA sensor that in both cases was faulty was a horrible decision. But the supposed aero instability due to larger engines further forward only occurs at high angles of attack. That's manageable with a less aggressive MCAS activating only once in a given pitch event and relying on 2 AOA sensors coupled with an agree/disagree comparison AND specific pilot training for MCAS activation scenarios. Boeing screwed up royally and yes, Dennis MUST go AND donate most of his compensation to the crash victims' families. But the airplane is fixable and won't be scrapped because the market still needs it far too much. Airbus alone can't build enough of the A320 family to satisfy the market and the airlines which ordered the MAX need it for its improved fuel efficiency (over the prior 737NG model) AND the reduction in C02 emissions increasingly demanded by world governments.
Nader likely overstated the aero issues because he lost a family member. I empathize with him but the aero instability, the pitch up, only occurs at high angles of attack at the edges of the normal flight envelope. The main issues are MCAS over-activation and stupid reliance on just one AOA sensor, along with lack of proper pilot training regarding MCAS. Still on Boeing but the MAX will not be scrapped because the market needs it far too much. They need to begin designing a replacement airplane sooner rather than later though.
The Wall Street corporate sociopaths at Boeing should be sent to death row. Do they have pedophile parties at their board meetings when they split up the loot? It's pretty obvious psychopaths run this evil company. They are followers of the devil and will get their justice when they croak. They kill every day via the Military Industrial Complex. Boeing Boeing gone! Boycott Boeing!
Watching David "Squeaky" Calhoun reminds me why Boeing is such a poorly run organization. Now that the light of day is focusing on Squeaky and his president "Skippy"Muilenburg, the public can easily see why Boeing is in such a pickle. Years of rotten management and missing oversight always leads to an inadequate or inferior product.
This reminds me of the old fable. A dog rescues a snake, the snake then bites the dog. The dog says 'why did you do that?' The snake replies 'I'm a snake. What do you expect me to do? '
To Dennis and the Boeing Company: The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are people. Congress can impute to a corporation the commission of certain criminal offenses and subject it to criminal prosecution therefor. In actions for tort, a corporation may be held responsible for damages for the acts of its agent within the scope of his employment, even if done wantonly, recklessly or against the express orders of the principal. While corporations cannot commit some crimes, they can commit crimes which consist in purposely doing things prohibited by statute, and in such case they can be charged with knowledge of acts of their agents who act within the authority conferred upon them.
7 down votes. Likely executives on the Boeing board. Ralph Nader is spot on in his assessment and recommendations. Boeing made their decisions on the basis of profit, not safety. Hundreds have already died. And the company is more concerned with getting their planes back into the air rather than being transparent and doing the right thing. No amount of money will bring back a single life. Giving up his bonus is laughable. Muilenberg should be fired
If another Boeing plane crashes... most of these characters will still try to talk you into traveling on these planes.... why...MONEY MONEY MONEY.... would any of them fly on one? here is a question ... the factory workers who build these jets ... would they get on one?
Ralph Nader hits the nail on the head. There's clearly a lot more wrong with this 50-year old design than software. The engines are mounted too far forward and upward, anyone can see this leads to Center of Gravity (CG) issues. But further, this "new design that isn't new" causes a strong pitch-up moment at low speed and high power (e.g. right after take-off). Boeing tried to save time and development costs while chasing Airbus, and 346 lives later the real problem has surfaced. MCAS would never have been necessary if proper aerodynamic design principles had been obeyed. It is a software "patch" on a hardware "bug". Issues about AOA sensors and software "authority" are sideshows. Boeing will likely be found liable in the hundreds of lawsuits to follow. Boeing will try to have the trials moved overseas, but they seem to have not recognized that this is now a global issue. Does any company have the right to jeopardize lives to make or save money? See this: "The Economics That Made Boeing Build the 737 Max" ruclips.net/video/BfNEOfEGe3I/видео.html
Not center of gravity issues. Instability at high angles of attack resulting from aerodynamic pitch up caused by the bigger, more forward mounted engines. You relied on widely circulated but inaccurate assumptions. Go on the airliners.net web forum and read the MAX threads there. Nader is not an aeronautical engineer so he too has fostered the incorrect assumption about bad COG. Even Airbus's A320 family with its even larger engines experiences the pitch up to an extent but their better engine placement and the superior fly-by-wire flight controls tame it. MCAS was added to the MAX to help do the same but it was badly flawed and not revealed to the pilots.
problem, the transporters have the right to switch the plane for your flight after you did buy your ticket... and have no refund right if you refuse to get on a plane you don't trust...
Gotta love when random's with a distant ass connection chime in to give their 2 cents. Oh we need to hear how the great grand uncle in law of a victim would handle it. What a joke. Boeing is fucked but getting rid of mullenburg and the board doesnt change the fact the Max exists and will continue to for years to come regardless of the bad press. You cant just fix the airframe of an existing aircraft. MCAS isnt an anti stall feature its a feeling system to make the aircraft handle like every other 737. Boeing doesnt want to mandate extra sim training because that defeats the whole purpose of the max fitting a 737 type rating.
I did not know Ralph Nader was such an expert on Boeing and, in particular, on the 737 Max 8? Excuse me Mr. Nader but maybe if you would have spoken out before the crashes, with all your knowledge, maybe these incidents would not have happened right? Hey Ralph, rather than ranting off in the hysteria and emotion driven atmosphere, why don't you let the experts take care of things and you can relax before you make things worse.
William Dowda and you’re an expert? How much do you actually know about Ralph Nader? How much do you actually know about aircraft. Go see a therapist and stop being a troll.
@@1234jajadingdong I confess that I don't know too much about Mr. Nader let me say. I beleive he is a good man and has accomplished much for good. I just don't think that he qualifies as an expert and take the position of determining the correct course of action for Boeing Corporation's board od directors. Does ambulance chaser sound like what may be involved here?
Maybe Ralph Nadar should just retire and buy a Florida retirement condo.. and keep out of voicing his opinion about something he doesn’t know anything about.
You Don't Know - Perhaps you should just retire and move to communist China where they censor and kill people for speaking out. You would love it there.
Me Myself - Ohmm, no just happen to fly the airplane everybody have an opinion about. I love flying the MAX and can’t wait for it back in the air and the remaining orders being delivered to my employer. Boeing made a design mistake in the design of the MCAS system, and it is what it is a design mistake, and it is being corrected. Humans make mistakes, that’s just how it is, it cannot be totally eliminated.
Not one of the board should get bonuses.
Why is this even an issue.
WTF. This is why the market is BS.
Resigning isn't enough. He needs to go to prison.
As Nader says, Boeing agrees the engines were too big to properly fit under the wings. The solution would have been to raise the wings and fuselage. That would create moments about the pitch axis with high thrust during takeoff. The solution is pilot training or, if necessary, pilot conversion. Boeing choose instead to implement MCAS to automatically trim the aircraft. But they also put in anti stall features. In both crashes the planes were not stalling but MCAS said they were and took over control to fly the planes. Faulty AOA sensors should never have been allowed to let MCAS take control of the flight. Did MCAS corroborate with altimeter and differential thereof? Or with rate of climb instrumentation? Or with airspeed instrument? The planes were too fast to stall, so MCASdid the wrong things. Or deal with its conflict with ground prox? MCAS was bad software. It cannot be fixed by minding two AOA sensors instead of one. In fact what MCAS did was against aviators' desires but they were overridden.
MCAS was given far too much authority and repeatedly activated in rapid sequence. And its reliance on a single AOA sensor that in both cases was faulty was a horrible decision. But the supposed aero instability due to larger engines further forward only occurs at high angles of attack. That's manageable with a less aggressive MCAS activating only once in a given pitch event and relying on 2 AOA sensors coupled with an agree/disagree comparison AND specific pilot training for MCAS activation scenarios. Boeing screwed up royally and yes, Dennis MUST go AND donate most of his compensation to the crash victims' families. But the airplane is fixable and won't be scrapped because the market still needs it far too much. Airbus alone can't build enough of the A320 family to satisfy the market and the airlines which ordered the MAX need it for its improved fuel efficiency (over the prior 737NG model) AND the reduction in C02 emissions increasingly demanded by world governments.
SCRAP IT!
Nader is improving with age. Can't agree more. Something is woefully wrong with safety culture at Boeing. Can't be fixed by those responsible.
Spot on Mr Nader, Boeing should scrap the p;lane because of it's serious aerodynamic issues.
Nader likely overstated the aero issues because he lost a family member. I empathize with him but the aero instability, the pitch up, only occurs at high angles of attack at the edges of the normal flight envelope. The main issues are MCAS over-activation and stupid reliance on just one AOA sensor, along with lack of proper pilot training regarding MCAS. Still on Boeing but the MAX will not be scrapped because the market needs it far too much. They need to begin designing a replacement airplane sooner rather than later though.
A lawyer telling you how to build a airplane. What could go wrong?
LOL. Check out the professional background of far too many U.S. Congressman and Senators.
its crazy the ceo is still there lol obviously the board needs to go to, wouldnt be suprised if somethign similar happens again
This CNBC commentator just doesn't seem to know the appropriate question to ask about this out of print bird.
The Wall Street corporate sociopaths at Boeing should be sent to death row. Do they have pedophile parties at their board meetings when they split up the loot? It's pretty obvious psychopaths run this evil company. They are followers of the devil and will get their justice when they croak. They kill every day via the Military Industrial Complex. Boeing Boeing gone! Boycott Boeing!
Is the bonus simply deferred? Think this is an empty pr move... details probably are that he gets his 'lost' bonus next year with interest.
Watching David "Squeaky" Calhoun reminds me why Boeing is such a poorly run organization. Now that the light of day is focusing on Squeaky and his president "Skippy"Muilenburg, the public can easily see why Boeing is in such a pickle. Years of rotten management and missing oversight always leads to an inadequate or inferior product.
This reminds me of the old fable. A dog rescues a snake, the snake then bites the dog.
The dog says 'why did you do that?'
The snake replies 'I'm a snake. What do you expect me to do? '
To Dennis and the Boeing Company: The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are people. Congress can impute to a corporation the commission of certain criminal offenses and subject it to criminal prosecution therefor. In actions for tort, a corporation may be held responsible for damages for the acts of its agent within the scope of his employment, even if done wantonly, recklessly or against the express orders of the principal. While corporations cannot commit some crimes, they can commit crimes which consist in purposely doing things prohibited by statute, and in such case they can be charged with knowledge of acts of their agents who act within the authority conferred upon them.
7 down votes. Likely executives on the Boeing board.
Ralph Nader is spot on in his assessment and recommendations.
Boeing made their decisions on the basis of profit, not safety. Hundreds have already died. And the company is more concerned with getting their planes back into the air rather than being transparent and doing the right thing.
No amount of money will bring back a single life. Giving up his bonus is laughable. Muilenberg should be fired
He underestimated the safety culture in Lion and Ethiophian airlines in the first place.
really? you imbecile
If another Boeing plane crashes... most of these characters will still try to talk you into traveling on these planes.... why...MONEY MONEY MONEY.... would any of them fly on one? here is a question ... the factory workers who build these jets ... would they get on one?
Ralph Nader hits the nail on the head. There's clearly a lot more wrong with this 50-year old design than software. The engines are mounted too far forward and upward, anyone can see this leads to Center of Gravity (CG) issues. But further, this "new design that isn't new" causes a strong pitch-up moment at low speed and high power (e.g. right after take-off). Boeing tried to save time and development costs while chasing Airbus, and 346 lives later the real problem has surfaced. MCAS would never have been necessary if proper aerodynamic design principles had been obeyed. It is a software "patch" on a hardware "bug". Issues about AOA sensors and software "authority" are sideshows. Boeing will likely be found liable in the hundreds of lawsuits to follow. Boeing will try to have the trials moved overseas, but they seem to have not recognized that this is now a global issue. Does any company have the right to jeopardize lives to make or save money? See this: "The Economics That Made Boeing Build the 737 Max" ruclips.net/video/BfNEOfEGe3I/видео.html
Not center of gravity issues. Instability at high angles of attack resulting from aerodynamic pitch up caused by the bigger, more forward mounted engines. You relied on widely circulated but inaccurate assumptions. Go on the airliners.net web forum and read the MAX threads there. Nader is not an aeronautical engineer so he too has fostered the incorrect assumption about bad COG. Even Airbus's A320 family with its even larger engines experiences the pitch up to an extent but their better engine placement and the superior fly-by-wire flight controls tame it. MCAS was added to the MAX to help do the same but it was badly flawed and not revealed to the pilots.
@@RagShop1 -- Point taken, thanks...
Ralph is spelled wrong in the video title FYI @CNBC
Nader is exactly right concerning the larger engines and there locations on the wings. There is no MCAS fix. Folks, stay away from the MAX
problem, the transporters have the right to switch the plane for your flight after you did buy your ticket... and have no refund right if you refuse to get on a plane you don't trust...
@@kolerick easy, choose Delta Airlines which have no 737Max aircraft in their fleet. Nice try
Choosing between absurd and double-dumb...Really? That plane is MAX doomed.
Wrong, it is being fixed and WILL be back in service soon.
Jeffrey Hastings If one crashes again for any reason it would be a shitstorm
This is the same thing Ralph said the last time he was on CNBC.
Gotta love when random's with a distant ass connection chime in to give their 2 cents. Oh we need to hear how the great grand uncle in law of a victim would handle it. What a joke. Boeing is fucked but getting rid of mullenburg and the board doesnt change the fact the Max exists and will continue to for years to come regardless of the bad press. You cant just fix the airframe of an existing aircraft. MCAS isnt an anti stall feature its a feeling system to make the aircraft handle like every other 737. Boeing doesnt want to mandate extra sim training because that defeats the whole purpose of the max fitting a 737 type rating.
Well then Nader maybe you should resign for not properly regulating the FAA. And the rest of Congress for that matter you fool.
I did not know Ralph Nader was such an expert on Boeing and, in particular, on the 737 Max 8? Excuse me Mr. Nader but maybe if you would have spoken out before the crashes, with all your knowledge, maybe these incidents would not have happened right? Hey Ralph, rather than ranting off in the hysteria and emotion driven atmosphere, why don't you let the experts take care of things and you can relax before you make things worse.
William Dowda and you’re an expert? How much do you actually know about Ralph Nader? How much do you actually know about aircraft. Go see a therapist and stop being a troll.
@@1234jajadingdong I confess that I don't know too much about Mr. Nader let me say. I beleive he is a good man and has accomplished much for good. I just don't think that he qualifies as an expert and take the position of determining the correct course of action for Boeing Corporation's board od directors. Does ambulance chaser sound like what may be involved here?
Jonny B I know Ralph Nader was key to Bush being elected which led to the war in Iraq and crashing the global economy in 2008.
Maybe Ralph Nadar should just retire and buy a Florida retirement condo.. and keep out of voicing his opinion about something he doesn’t know anything about.
Oh boy. This man has helped save countless lives over his lifespan. Perhaps you should grab your passifier and return to your crib.
Me Myself - Why don’t you do that kiddo..
You Don't Know - Perhaps you should just retire and move to communist China where they censor and kill people for speaking out. You would love it there.
@@thequake180 These staunch Boeing defenders sure seem to have some personal financial interests at stake.
Me Myself - Ohmm, no just happen to fly the airplane everybody have an opinion about. I love flying the MAX and can’t wait for it back in the air and the remaining orders being delivered to my employer. Boeing made a design mistake in the design of the MCAS system, and it is what it is a design mistake, and it is being corrected. Humans make mistakes, that’s just how it is, it cannot be totally eliminated.