No, it is much more than that my sweet summer child. If you invest the bare minimum into a group then don't expect any return of investment in this competitive kpop scene.
@@fabiannamauge3555 because they have contractsvthat last a certain time and some contract have a fine that has to be paid in the artist wants to leave the group before the contract ends
Profit margins are the only thing that matters to companies who dish out millions to train, market and debut idols. No profit, no company. Just plain common sense. You can't live off of good intentions.
It's kinda true but we still have to remember that kpop groups/idols are mostly treat like products. So the company will give the group that's more successful better treatment and the group that give the company less benefit will get lesser better treatment or even worse they'll get left behind by the company
From a business point of view, this is rather normal; of course they would pour investments of the group that sells. I don't blame them, at the end of the day, the kpop industry is still a business.
Without Gidle, Cube would be gone, especially after pentagon, and btob. Soyeon single handedly carried the group since debut since their budget was so minimal, and soyeon produced, wrote, and even choreographed their debut song.
The starship one is horrible I hope WJSN goes to another company. They have a lot of hit songs in korea but starship doesn’t like to promote them well even after they won queendom 2
I hope their next comeback gets higher budget. Like the budget for «Finale sequence» was nothing expected from a well off company like Starship. They could have done so much with the mermaid concept give it a more cosmic feel even. Loona’s company is not as rich as Starship, but still their budget is way higher and they had comeback after queendom almost the same time.
But do the fans even promote them. Cuz if the fans don’t even bother promoting the group and what would be the point of investing money if they don’t do well
For cube, I also initially thought of CLC because even though they are Idle's seniors, Cube didn't give them any promotions or songs to help them reach fame. But even then, Cube still mismanages all their groups as they kicked out Hyuna and Dawn and Soojin. One of the biggest reasons why Idle has successful music is because of Soyeon. Not only have CLC members talked about their mistreatment but even Idle members have mentioned a few mistreatment issues.
It's sad that lots of companies can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I think it's a bit of sunk cost fallacy at play...avoiding spending more money on what they think isn't going to workout. But they skipped a step, which is providing adequate support to see whether the group can stand on it's own. I'm a jyp stan and it's the perfect example of a company investing in their flagship (twice) while being supportive of their 2nd group (itzy) and their maknaes (nmixx). All 3 are successful and jyp is making a ton of profits. The ex head of yg said he wanted to create a girl group like twice but every company should follow the jyp formula of supporting all their groups or at the very least not neglect any of them.
I think group promotions wise, Bighit did a great job for TXT. the group is becoming more popular and is creating their own fans without “the involvement of their senior, BTS” as the group’s concept is evolving too throughout the years because they’re not minors anymore. Bighit also allow TXT members to have solo projects like Soobin as MC for Musicbank which clearly attract a lot of new fans, Yeonjun as aotm for studio choom, the maknaes with their radio program, etc. As mentioned in the video, for security wise, i think the company didn’t expect for 1-2yo group to have such crowd in public. yes, bighit should have anticipated the worse scenario when taking the members in public, but nowadays during TXT 2022 recent world tour, they have much more secure security
Bighit has nothing to do with sauka she is under source music a different company. All companies under hybe manger their own artists. All companies under hybe work independently.
@@nicoleloss7987 so? Imagine even a smaller company could manage safety for artist before debut. But Big hit which actually bought them couldnt manage it for their own babies . Isnt it a shame?
Gidle doesn't get anything from their company, the reason they are still alive, thriving, and have music is all thanks to Soyeon and the members of the group. Cube is well known for giving zero shits. Gidle deserves all the support here
If I say so myself, I think TXT are treated fairly well by Hybe/ BigHit.. Their projects are constantly evolving, the members have freedom of creativity within those projects, they're allowed to pursue different things. Their projects are promoted even more efficiently, good collaborations, they're constantly given more and more opportunities, an example of which can be found by their participation on Lola this year. Further, they're the only group besides the 3rd gen to sell and score outstandingly on charts all over the world. And without carefully calculated effort by the agency, this is nearly impossible to do so. They're even on massive tours nowadays. But if you constantly compare it to BTS, then obviously it'll be different. Even their western counterparts, like Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran doesn't have nearly as much as security as BTS. So, does that mean that those artists are poorly treated by their agencies? No, it just means that BTS is a completely different phenomena within the industry, one that hasn't been experienced since the Beatles era. So, if you constantly compare with them, then of course it'll feel lackluster but it doesn't mean it actually is.
People need to understand that HYBE itself isn't 1 Entertainment. It's made out of many different entertainments with their own Ceos and so on. So comparing LS and TXTs treatment is like comparing apples with pears. LS is under Source Music. TXT is under BigHit. Get that
Bighit is also independent to HYBE wc means HYBE doesn’t get to interfere in their activities whilst Lesserafim is also personally handled by Bang Sihyuk, the money invested in them comes from the budget given or borrowed from HYBE, the different treatments are because of the individual companies’ management not because LS is being favored
I'm sorry but txt not being as famous as bts means nothing when it it comes to security. I mean, it's people's lives they are putting at risk. Being rich or famous should never be a qualification to have a basic thing like protecting.
Thank you for this, txt are very famous maybe not as famous as bts, but they still need proper security and one or two people for "protection" is not enough
Tbh no, bodyguards are expensive enough to hire, we should teach fans to be more respectful, hiring bodyguards for them when they are not even on BTS' level, would greatly affect the profit margin and the company is gonna lose a lot of money.
And Le Sserafim are less pooular than TxT and why are they getting better treatmens. Security matters! You think they should let their idols get slapped in the face just because they aren't as popular as the othwr group?
It’s such a big oof with WJSN and IVE. I love WJSN a ton but when I went to KCon I wasn’t the only Ujung who felt the same that this was our last chance to see WJSN before they disbanded due to IVE. Starship should’ve done more for the girls, they’re extremely talented in person. I thought it was just over a screen but no, they sing extremely well in person and great performers that need more spotlight. Edit: I want to make it clear that I DO NOT hate IVE, they’re very good and I like their songs as well.
Don’t forget about Xuan Yi Cheng Xiao and Mei Qi. They were supposed to come back from China for a comeback(especially after the project group Xuan and Mei that they were part of disbanded) but then netizens’ boycott towards them happened and Starship and Yuehua did nothing. Instead they’ve been inactive for 4 years and now that they, along with other Chinese idols, are no longer welcomed to return, they obviously have not done anything to figure out what their future holds.
@@methylfairy6877 why are you dragging Jennie. Is she from Starship then why are you bringing her here. Peeps are way too obsessed with Korea's IT girl, I see...
As soon as I saw different treatment of groups under same company, my head straight forwardly went towards WJSN and IVE. WJSN have suffered the most under starship. Their rushed debut of 12 unknown girls to an year long hiatus in 2017 for a rookie group to Chinese members leaving and never coming back to denial of opportunities and so much more. If you learn more of their history, u will realise how starship never used WJSN's potential and let them Suffer with low budget comebacks. Although they won QUEENDOM 2 now, I don't think starship will use this win to their advantage and in my opinion is just waiting for their contracts to end. I hope WJSN changes their company where they will be appreciated. No hate on IVE though. They are awesome group.
We don’t know why the Chinese members left and it might not even be the companies fault due to the ten rooms between the countries. Also cravity is ehhh lol
What do you expect from starship, sistar very famous people know their song but they have very small fandom compare to other group. Starship management are 💩
The only reason gidle has comebacks and albums is because Soyeon, Minnie and Yuqi produce them. Soyeon even produced their debut and had to fight for it bc cube didn’t really believe they were going to make it. Members have talked about mistreatments too, the only difference is they make money and that’s why it might seem they’re cubes favorites.
ok i would like to mention about bts and txt situations, like the cat and dog was intentionally promoted the same as boy with luv due to that bts can interact with them as the same time promote them, it’s always happen when it come to other big groups too, and the i know i love you and butter, well is also stated by rm himself that bh was having a hard time to make ikily or finalize it, so it cause txt to move comeback dates due to it’s delay, that’s why bh himself ask rm if he could write or compose the finalization of the song. finally the bodyguards, yes txt has less bodyguards than bts due to their massive fans so maybe that was the reason, but ofcourse it was still unfair for txt not to get some bodyguards, (i’m not saying hybe is favoring bts, but you know army are way bigger than moa, so hybe is really at fault here not the other groups.) and yah those harassment yeonjun got was unacceptable and disgusting.
It felt like Cube had no direction or plan when it came to Lightsum. I liked their debut enough but they disappeared quickly and it was clear from their follow up that their was no one creatively directing/ leading Lightsum. They blended into the background so fast (for me at least)
6:54 “Since it’s likely that the profits of WJSN as a whole were said to not even equal to half of the money Wonyoung brought to SSE, asking the company to treat them like treating IVE was rather too much” Really hurt my heart as an UJUNG 💔💔💔
Wjsn's career never really took off. During their predebut/ rookie years, some members appeared in variety shows and survival shows like Unpretty rapstar. Also, the company had that "zodiac" concept going for them. The company also decided to include Yeonjung from IOI into the group. However, those were not enough to help the group to be successful. Then, people forgot about them and they got buried after newer groups debut. If you compare to IVE, all plans of the company worked to make them successful. Wonyoung and Yujin were in IZONE and they got really popular from that. I guess it is a combination of luck and timing. I don't support the company's treatment of wjsn but it seems like through the trials and errors starship made from wjsn they learned how to make Ive a success. Unfortunate fate for Wjsn.
@@skyler5679 I don’t think starship will ever consider that because they see WJSN as not worth spending a ton on since they’re not incredibly popular and with their contracts expiring soon it would take a miracle for Starship to start treating them better
@@skyler5679 but that will make Ive acts cheaper and starship would have a chance of loosing popularity of Ive without gaining anything from WJSN and now that 3rd gen group other than big3 and some popular groups are fading I also believe that now that the end of their career investing in them would be any help to their popularity or stuff
TXT and BTS are different But size of fandom do matters They give more bodyguards to More famous one Because they need more security But ya they should do something about sexual harrasment of members
Moas don’t want the same treatment as Bts, they want enough treatment for Txt (Does it make sense?). Txt doesn’t need 200 but they need at least enough to protect them.
On a serious note, WJSN is really good group. I have been always bg stan but I randomly came across Unnatural song by WJSN and I was surprised by their vocals, visuals and charisma. Each and every member has their own charm and they got really great potential. I feel bad for them for not getting much exposure.
@@brennathecatlover4360 no Cube treats every group badly IDLE only strives cuz Soyeon and other 2 can write and produce songs on their own Cube literally is afraid of them
It makes sense for companies to spend more money on groups with better sales and opportunities. It's just simple logic. If a company spends more money on a group with better sales/opportunities they will make even more money and become successful, meanwhile if they spend on a group with low sales and little opportunities they will lose a lot of money.
You are missing the most important step, a company should provide enough support, that includes quality music, choreo and most importantly promotions to se if the group can suceed. Pledis don't put the effort and then act surprise when their project aren't working well. Ive would have never been succesful without their Izone members because Pledis simply never provide any real support to developp their group and Ive would not have been an exeption. Pledis is honeslty a dumb company business wise, they could be ten times bigger if only they believe a little more in their artists and pushed them from the start.
@@MM-kj8os but the fans are at fault too. Why complain if you’re not even supporting the group cuz if the group isn’t doing well what’s the point of even trying cuz the fans won’t do anything
It think it’s obvious that the more popular group gets more resources but I also think everyone so have security like it’s extremely important and take action to cyber bullying. That should be equal
It makes sense for a company to give more attention to the group that makes more profit. I think they use that group's profits to improve their apartments.. But I just hope in the case of the bodyguards issue, everyone deserves protection regardless of how much he or she brings to the company.
SM with red velvet v nct it angers me so much that RV would've been way more popular if they were given proper treatment. But they achieved so much solely on their own
I think SM can only manage one girl group at a time, so when aespa came along, they kind of just forgot about RV (no hate to aespa!). Look at the differences between SNSD and f(x). Same thing with boy groups. Since NCT has become so popular, look what happened to EXO.
@@allie5954 nah, they have been mistreating them WAY BEFORE aespa debut... they decide to promote nct until they got famous cuz they are sexist and cpuld not stand a male sm group not being popular, spedially this bug proyect that has been sm target since forever .... a never ending group like akb48 In other hand red velvet had comebacks like zimzalabim that was a joke for kpoppers for the longest time for the hideous outfits
@@jjba3571 I see what you mean. I think I was trying to be generous by saying they did better (not great) in the beginning (like until 2019). It was around the time NCT started getting popular (no hate to NCT; they deserve the agency’s support as well and have nothing personally to do with RV’s poor management). Was it sexism? Probably played a part, but also (generally speaking) boy groups are more profitable due to the overwhelming support of female fans. I think it was a combination of sexism and good ol’ cooperate greed. And I might die alone on this hill, but I actually like Zimzalabim! I can agree with the questionable styling though…
That's how business works, you get the fortune that you bring to your company. Ofcourse that does not mean the companies should treat the idols like trash. But they're only gonna get what they've earned. And it's not just kpop, literally any usual employee or worker has to go through mistreatment time to time depending on the condition of the company. Kpop is a job afterall. People are able to point out such things in entertainment agencies because they see it directly on TV or internet but it's nothing different from how a normal office worker is treated, it's just less public.
Txt is famous but Bts is more famous than them, however now hybe treat Txt better than the other companies and le sserafim is in source music so it different from big hit
BTS is more famous and therefore need more bodyguards. Can't expect them to be treated the same if the company doesn't receive the same amount of money off of the group's. Also I've only heard about I've not the other group
aside from the bodyguard thing ,the group are treated the way they have been succeeding ,you cant expect a group that dont bring much to the company to get the same treatment as a group who have been steadily succeeding since their debut , they use the money they earn
@@rhesafrederick2806 I guess you are new to BTS. They built the company...it's not that they didn't treat them well. They didn't have the money to treat them better back then. It's a long run development for bts. Not some big 3 thing back then.
This provers how good of companies are YG and SM, they do not let their groups overlap each other and maintain a decent consistency between all of their groups let it be their most famous ones or just the famous ones. Their groups are divided in two groups, the ones that are more known internationally and the ones that are more popular in Korea. To me that’s really good because they know how to manage each of their groups accordingly even if they go on hiatus or not their hype doesn’t really end and that to me is smart tactics
@@jayeshkumaryadav4290 they were under the Same company as (G)idle (CUBE ENT.) They used to treat so shitty from their angency but now they are already disband.
Just to make sure we're using the right rhetoric here... we're talking more about favoritism from corporate profit margins, not discrimination. Most if not of all of these neglected groups are not being given the shaft because of bias based on them as people, thank god. But because they don't make money (or as much money). Which devil's advocate... makes sense. Companies spend A LOT of money training idols with the gamble they'll work out and whether it be just lack of luck, poor management, or terrible fandoms, most of the time they don't. I don't understand keeping them on the hook for the their contract if you're not gonna use them or activey downplay them so they make even less money for you, but I do understand hitting gold with one group and wanting to keep digging and abandoning the "dead ends" you found along the way, from a business standpoint. We should refrain from using buzzwords like discrimination to get clicks, because that is actually a very serious issue even in Korea when it comes to ethnicity and skin tone, and this kind of isn't the case here. Fandoms tend to blow things out of proportion, especially when it comes to their faves. But please look at it objectively. Not saying it can't be, but this isn't what is being dicussed for the most part.
For WJSN it's completely on Starship. Yeonjung was a member of IOI, so it's not like she was a nobody when she joined the group in 2016. She brought in some fans, and the fandom for WJSN is pretty solid, esp in Korea. They have a lot of great songs and their own vibe different from that of IVE. But yes, Wonyoung is the massive It girl in K-pop right now, so it makes sense that Ive would debut and get more than WJSN did in their early days--but after seven years, you'd think WJSN would still get a little more from their company. Sure, they're not the hit that Ive is, but they've won some music shows, some awards, and have built a solid fanbase and career for themselves. To clarify, this is nothing against Ive or Wonyoung. They absolutely deserve everything they have achieved/been given and more. Just stating that Starship Ent. should put give WJSN more respect.
This pains my heart so much as an Ujung. Not even comparing with Ive, the living condition during WJSN’s debut era was really bad. 13 members + 1 manager sharing such a small place, there are so many people that the only place the member could have their privacy was their own bed with the makeshift curtain. For sure, Starship/Yuehua could do better. In term of discographies, WJSN pioneered cosmic sound and all their albums contained really good songs.
When nu'est was still active i could tell that pledis really favored seventeen obviously. Seventeen went to many award shows, variety shows, radio shows, they had amazing content for their youtube channel, went on vlive many times, and had multiple comebacks in the same year. While nu'est barely got to promote, had poor content for their youtube channel, they didn't have any extravagant sets for their music videos, barely went on vlive, and they literally had a comeback once a year. These companies only care about money so if one group is doing better than the other, obviously they're gonna pay more attention to that group. I just wish companies wouldn't be so biased and promote all of their groups equally but i know that will never happen 🤷♂️😐
I think that the groups had an initial amount of investment(the company, sponsors, investors) that should last them like maybe 1 or 2 years? After that different groups have different budget depending on their popularity/sales/revenue.. Marketing, album/songs production, training, rent, bodyguards, employees, everything cost money. The groups treatment basically depends on themselves. The company would expect to earn money from the group instead of just keep investing in them without return. It is a career/business sadly the company is not some non-profit charity organization.
Tbh most people are saying how cube is biased towards (g)-idle when soyeon is literally carrying the whole group. Be honest if it wasn't for soyeon's producing and lyrics skills (g)-idle would have mostly ended up like CLC or Lightsum (no hate to CLC or Lightsum they have so much talent but if they were given better producers)
if latata didn't become a hit then the mv for hann-tomboy will be as cheap looking as latata mv... i dont hate it but honestly speaking it is so obvious how cube gave a low budget for latata's mv... among all ( )i-dle mvs latata got the cheapest looking one for the old storage building set which looks like an mv from an indie artists... although their are some elements of the mv that looks like given budget and effort like the pink horse in minnie's part and the vehicle at the start, the other props are very usual that they can be found every where.
That is why Idol group who thinks they are mistreated need to learn from Gidle. Learn to get back up on your own feet instead of complaing. Gidle didn't even have a debut song while almost every group in K-Pop do. They made it because they themself do all the work
@@gwenmloveskpopandmore i dont think bankruptcy is the reason why latata is low budgeted, because hann looks budgeted... according to minnie's brother deleted post cube entertainment doesnt really want to invest in (g)i-dle at first but after latata's success they do want to invest... and it is really obvious that cube still has budget to make better mvs because not to long after latata's mv release hann with better set and quality came out it is quite impossible that ( )i-dle's debut album sales can budget that mv when it didnt belong to cube's most album sales... even if how hard you try to defend cube there are a lot of things that really shows how they mismanage their artists... looking at the scenario now i think cube wouldnt want ( )i-dle to leave them especially because not only that ( )i-dle brought them huge revenue but also they dont have any other groups who can do it like ( )i-dle... cube is in fact poor in promoting it's group.....
I really feel bad for the idols not treated properly coz they worked so hard and spent their childhood and teen years working under some company trusting it to make their future bright but alas
Well I was and still am an Ahgase for years and I didn't stan any group since I got into GOT7. When GOT7 left JYPE in 2021 and started to got into their own ways, TXT caught my attention and after several years, I started to stan an another group and become a MOA. So yeah, it hella hurts to know that both groups I loved deeply mistreats by their company and lack of promotion. just DAMN.
Txt is well promoted well i dont know .. its not true that hybe doesent do anything against harrasment. They regulary post information about lawsuits etc they are doing against people who crossing a line.. the Bodyguard situation couls be better there i agree also for enhypen.
Ngl Hybe does treats txt better ,yall need to stop comparing txt to bts ,they are different artist . Their success ,fame,luxuries are way different . Maybe bts has their own personal bodyguards too ,who does not belong to hybe. Anyways no one is asking for 150 bodyguards all we were asking for 10 bodyguards who can protect txt well.
(G)I-DLE being Cubes favorite I don’t know from what I read them girls are mistreated but they keep them lights on😭😭😭😭 so they have no choice but to continue letting them girls be great and do them
I dont agree with lightsum and gidle.. i would say that both groups are mistreated by cube and whatever gidle is getting was fought by the members themselves especially soyeon.. since lightsum are still rookies and are the youngest in cube, they are still probably scared of the company and will not have the courage to voice out their wants and needs moreover fight for what they deserve.. hopefully one day lightsum will get the treatment they deserve as they are such a talented group like their seniors..
This is a numbers game and has to remain a numbers game, otherwise you don’t get content of any group. There’s basic respect, which is given on a human to human level, but as for money distribution that’s obviously given to the most lucrative group around in the company. As well as chances, time, energy, staff, travel, rent etc..all falling under money. You need your groups to be independent and if they can’t do it, they’ve go. Improvement needs to happen quick. You can’t dump a ton of money into a group that doesn’t make it quick, as money drains fast. This is for any business in any country around the globe. There’s a tight window of when a company needs to stop bl*eding cash, when you break even and when you first make a profit. They’re all pretty tight and need to be kept. There’s little room to sway. Ya it’s nice to have investors and attempt to sell them a false reality for more money, but that doesn’t last long for most. Same with groups that have talent but just don’t get enough money being brought in. The chances of that happening, again and again are low. There’s only a handful that were given a chance, for good reason. This gets even worse when you add the constant trends changing in each part of the world, the improvement of standards in society and it’s morals along with its technology. It’s extremely hard to push a group consistently with all of the above changing. You’ve to fit them into a box, then another, then another to get the right image to get the right tune to capture the right moment, to get the right view to be successful. And success if the goal. If companies treated everyone the same they’d run out of money 20 years ago. They’d have nothing for future projects, training, music demos, producers etc. They wouldn’t get 1/10 of what they have today. If people assume it’s this easy to run a company and give all groups equality they should attempt it themselves. Even idols who make their own companies realize the harsh reality and discuss the terror of having to half trainees and groups because of how bad they’re doing. You can’t run by breaking even or making little profit. People don’t understand the loans, the investors, the interest, the royalties and the deals these companies have to share their cut with. Get real. The company wouldn’t even be taking to cents to a dollar with all they share. Many of the royalties along, that they sign to share for deals and such, would be a 70% cut. That’s all their profit to balance the books. You have to discriminate in every single work field out there. To not do so means the end of your business. This entire mentality of “don’t discriminate” is for children. There’s no understanding of when a company gets that it needs competition with itself and focusing on different regions for different things. This means debuting groups at the same time. In addition to a whole other amount of issues of having different departments for each group, this will happen. People need to put their feet back on the ground and hit reality. Discrimination is what brought them kpop and got it to be successful as it is. If people think it’s as simple as a company getting bigger means equal money or more for other groups, they’re wrong. You have to prove your income for that company to invest more. That’s the way it goes. Otherwise this big company would be regressing to its former self
Talking about company discrimination how is SM not here. Their treatment of SNSD, SJ, EXO vs FX. FX didn't even have fandom name or lightstick or a concert tour like their label mates.
I can go on about this all day. f(x) didn’t have concerts until 2015, but EXO got their first concert in 2014, no fan name until 2016 (shortly after they went on an indefinite hiatus), and got promoted maybe once a year, with short promotion periods. And yet, they still opened a lot of doors for k-pop today. They were the first k-pop group that went to SXSW, which opened the floor for k-pop acts to go to American music festivals, like Coachella. They arguably have the most critically lauded k-pop album with Pink Tape which sold over 100k copies. They opened the door for a lot of girl groups to experiment with sounds and looks. And yet SM treated them like shit. Imagine if they didn’t.
my personal opinion: i find wjsn's songs r quality earworm songs too, along with ive (which is why i stan both groups). wjsn r also given rlly good outfits since 2019 (there were a couple of times they used high end brands as well i think the main issue here is not abt the quality of comebacks from ive n wjsn respectively, rather its the promotion that's the issue. SSE does not promote wjsn as well, as seen from their limited appearances on award shows even after QD2 win (ofc i wldnt expect that they wld attend the more popular award shows but i thought they shld appear on AAA as a full grp, circle chart music award etc) - again, this issue of unequal treatment seems to be very prevalent in mid-range companies (as seen from cube also)
I know this might sound weird but there's something iffy to me about groups who start with like a silver spoon compared to groups who built up their career through struggles. like I know they all go through packed schedules and practices but it's different when they start off with luxuries. I think what's so amazing about BTS is that they started with barely anything but worked so hard and got to where they are with a humble background. Like even coming from lower income households like myself, I find more comfort in them. I know I am bias but I think TXT deserve a lot more than other groups and I feel like they do get good treatment but then again idk everything lol. Also I get that there is a budget for groups to debut but having a new group that's flashy with the sets and wears designer clothing in their debut also is weird, like they don't know if the group will actually succeed. LS seems like a cool group and they already have a big company name for them but I think that scandal kinda made things tense idk, I dont really pay attention to girl groups 🙃
If those companies are just gonna treat their other groups unfairly then they shouldn’t just debut them. They should really build a system where they can predict the success that their future groups will have. I know it might be impossible but we’ll never know in the future if they’ll be able to make one.
I dont think that Starship is bad company only because of WJSN case. I love starship for their choice of music and concepts. Cosmic girls have wonderful songs and visuals but they were not so popular from the debut times before IVE s come, so this isnt IVEs fault at all. Even if they hadnt debut they will be treated in that way... because
Investment and treatment are what determine a group's popularity but groups are treated and managed (= money invested in them) differently depending on their popularity... it's a vicious circle
It's funny how a lot of people love to make excuses as soon as people find something wrong a label is doing to a group those dudes had that many security guards but your new group doesn't you supposed to protect your artist the same. And the way they treat groups different under the companies is why a lot of people always say why the hell would you want to join a group in K-pop there's always favoritism and the company don't give a damn they just want money. This is why so many groups went down and they quit if I ran a record label all of my artists getting treated the same freedom to write their own music and do other things outside the company they're making you lots of money what's the point of putting them against each other. This reminds me of Lou Pearlman look how he put NSYNC and Backstreet Boys against each other even though both groups were bringing millions of dollars in what a shame
Momoland and t1419 are even sadder, Momoland brought all the money and their company used it on their unknown boy group, they even got Momoland's apartment and the girls were kicked out
txt and lesserafim are under different management. what they do is up to their agencies. if lesserafim spend a lot of money to rent a skyscraper or even a private island for lesserafim, it's under source music responsibility and nothing to do with txt (bighit). both have their own funds from hybe.
Thank you. Le sserfirm just debute under source music and are having their 1 comeback Oct 17. Txt is treated very well and because in a great profits..
Lol just because they aren't as popular as other groups that does not mean you have to treat less popular ones like a trash. Ofc they aren't gonna be popular when you promote them like shit. At least give them goof security and a dorm which is not like garbage
Yes I see different treatment between IVE and WJSN but WJSN are in my heart! Their songs, mvs, choreos and costumes are super top quality! I like IVE so much but I love WJSN!
That's the point WJSN Have great costume,songs,music and choreo and everything but if they still aren't as popular as Ive than that's not starship or Ive fault
i would say Xdinary Heroes. Most groups under JYP became pretty famous (twice, stray kids, got7,2pm...) but they didn't even give XH a chance bc as soon as they debuted they just disappeared until their next comeback. JYP is seriously sleeping on these poor boys. Like their so talented and unique for what? XH is the only group i know that plays guitar, keyboard, drums, can rap and can sing. i cant name any other group that plays instruments as well as their voices.
To that, I would say you're forgetting about DAY6. Personally, I feel like the only reason JYP pushed XH to debut was because they wanted to dispose of DAY6. As a MyDay, I was pretty shocked that JYP wanted to debut another band especially when I saw that one of the XH members were pretty upset about having to debut as a band member when he trained all his life as an idol.
Starship & YueHua only has words and no actions when it’s towards WJSN, the girls had no proper pre debut activities and relied solely on EXY for her appearance on Unpretty Rapstars as a leverage for their debut. Not only that, but they completely change the group’s concept from Girl Crush to Cute a few weeks before debut and did not have enough funding for the project as a whole, they were totally rushed to debut knowing that Sistar was about to reach their 7 year mark and having a failed to debut group in 2014 only shortened their time. - YeonJung who was in the initial lineup was cut from the debut team because they and 2 others had already signed a contract to participate in Produce101 Season 1 which started filming back in late 2015, but Starship wanted a 12 member lineup as their debut because of the whole Zodiac / horoscope concept that the group has and decided to debut the original 12 members. - The group also debuted at the wrong time, since this was a collab group between Starship & YueHua, they were initially suppose to promote in 2 countries simultaneously… the plans ended when the Chinese government put a ban on kpop and everything the companies wanted was completely ruined, that’s also probably why YueHua decided to pull their Chinese members back. Butterfly era was definitely the final page between the 2 companies before the group completely transition from WJSN/Cosmic Girls to just WJSN. ( they used to introduce themselves as cosmic girls to international fans but now they just go by their Korean name ) - The housing situation got better after awhile but 13 members + 1 manager used to live in the same dorm with only 1 bathroom. Their debut album was a bunch of post cards and a CD The debut MVs for both MoMoMo & CatchMe were in the same location with different colouring and you can totally tell how budget it was compared to every other Starship group. Do we also need to talk about the outfits? Only Catch Me’s stage outfits were the best (only because that was suppose to be their main concept) They were originally gonna have 2 MVs (3 if you count the Chinese release as 1) every comeback but it was scrapped and the idea was later given to their Junior group Cravity. Their 1st RePackaged full album got delayed and ultimately CANCELED sending the rookie group into a year hiatus. There’s many other things that went wrong and it’s just so upsetting, it’s not any of the group’s mentioned at fault, just bad timing, bad company management and lack of funding that caused all this. Coming from a fan of starship groups, this is very painful… The group on paper is the best group out there, they have amazing vocalists, amazing rappers, amazing dancers, they can produce their own music, they can choreograph their own dances, but everything that’s suppose to support them was barely there to keep them alive. So yes Hi Orbits, us UJungs know the pain very well and we only wish the best for everyone!
about TXT, BTS and LS: We all know the great success Bts has as the biggest bg internationally and how much money the label got bc of them. TXT debuted when it was still BIGHIT (2019) and had been training there for years (Yeonjun has the longest time there with 4y), It was known BH wanted a to debut a new group (they tried with a gg but didn't end well). For this 3 years, since day one, TXT showed how capable they are as a group, the quality in their music, great sales and that. In terms of promotion, mvs and music I think the company treats them equally, however the moment of their first tour in USA they give them THEATERS with 4k of capacity!! That's not something you give to a group with amazing sales there, the security should be better for TXT and about LS i don't follow them so I can't say much about it
the examples mentioned about how Gidle is being treated better than Lightsum are recent, but when Gidle debuted people said the exact same thing about them...that they didn´t had boudget and no content, every group starts the same and by saying this i actually don´t see Lightsum not having support..yes i do agree promotions maybe not as good as other rookies, but their songs are not bad quality "Vanilla" maybe not everyones cup of tea but it wasn´t bad and htis year their song was made by the same group that makes the songs for Itzy and have the same choreographers as Ive and they have really good stylists too. Also about the fact that they don´t make their own music like the other groups, lets not forget that BTOB and Pentagon debuted they didn´t make their music, not until 2 or 3 years, for Gidle they were going to debut with company song but since they didn´t found the right one, Hui suggested Soyeon to make her own song for the debut...so Lightsum have time to find their style first.
Honestly I think that they give lots of security to bts becouse theyre seniors, if you see the 1st 3 years of bts then you can see how much security they had, its just the amount of time or popularity they have in the industry, i think it may be fair....
I think having BTS and TXT promotions partially overlap was entirely done on purpose for marketing reasons. Because TXT were newer rookies, their name wasn't out there as much and some people may not look into them. But by having them on music shows at the same time as BTS, more people will be likely to see them. Lots of ARMYs and Korean gp will tune in for BTS and, in the process, see TXT. Pretty smart if you ask me.
If my company ditched me and my brothers at an airport, I'd take it upon myself to be a security guard. Don't want to protect us? Fine, I'll do it myself! I won't let my friends get hurt due to negligence. I'm not kidding. I mean it.
Do the bodyguard job. Guide them through the airport. Keep them safe. I'd take the pushing, touching and pulling if it meant my members could be left almost untouched
That's why I prefer to stan small-to-mid companies who has only one or two groups (a BG and a GG) under their roofs, yet regard them as precious assets despite low budgets.
btob, pentagon and gidle are self producing idols. i wish lightsum will not end up like clc, unless they make their own music on the next combacks find their own unique sound.
Imagine the idols who are treated badly in compare to their juniors will always go to bed thinking what did they wrong? or what they are lacking after all that hard work, and what did they do deserve this? it is so f****d up. I'm never gonna stan those groups because if I'll do it will legitimize the agency decisions and their discriminations and will make them assure that what they are doing is right. Sorry won't stand behind it.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
We should just accept that idols are treated differently because of popularity. It's becoming pretty much normal now which is so sad😥😥😥
So they cant leave the company
No, it is much more than that my sweet summer child.
If you invest the bare minimum into a group then don't expect any return of investment in this competitive kpop scene.
@@andrewalltheway so why cant they leave the group
@@fabiannamauge3555 because they have contractsvthat last a certain time and some contract have a fine that has to be paid in the artist wants to leave the group before the contract ends
@Real Me yeah even TO1 is being mistreated
Tbh its so disrespectful for companys to treat their idols differently just bc they are not as famous as another group under them
Profit margins are the only thing that matters to companies who dish out millions to train, market and debut idols. No profit, no company. Just plain common sense. You can't live off of good intentions.
It's kinda true but we still have to remember that kpop groups/idols are mostly treat like products. So the company will give the group that's more successful better treatment and the group that give the company less benefit will get lesser better treatment or even worse they'll get left behind by the company
From a business point of view, this is rather normal; of course they would pour investments of the group that sells. I don't blame them, at the end of the day, the kpop industry is still a business.
i mean its a business after all , what do u expect 🤷🏻♀️
@@ae-ribae6426 Exactly
Without Gidle, Cube would be gone, especially after pentagon, and btob. Soyeon single handedly carried the group since debut since their budget was so minimal, and soyeon produced, wrote, and even choreographed their debut song.
The starship one is horrible I hope WJSN goes to another company. They have a lot of hit songs in korea but starship doesn’t like to promote them well even after they won queendom 2
I hope their next comeback gets higher budget. Like the budget for «Finale sequence» was nothing expected from a well off company like Starship. They could have done so much with the mermaid concept give it a more cosmic feel even. Loona’s company is not as rich as Starship, but still their budget is way higher and they had comeback after queendom almost the same time.
@@vixxexo6855 how so
But do the fans even promote them. Cuz if the fans don’t even bother promoting the group and what would be the point of investing money if they don’t do well
Honestly after Ive starship has been mistreating monsta x and wjsn
*jennie should leave blackpink*
For cube, I also initially thought of CLC because even though they are Idle's seniors, Cube didn't give them any promotions or songs to help them reach fame.
But even then, Cube still mismanages all their groups as they kicked out Hyuna and Dawn and Soojin. One of the biggest reasons why Idle has successful music is because of Soyeon. Not only have CLC members talked about their mistreatment but even Idle members have mentioned a few mistreatment issues.
Yeah Cube is a trash company even their 1st groups Beast and 4Minute were done dirty
It's sad that lots of companies can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I think it's a bit of sunk cost fallacy at play...avoiding spending more money on what they think isn't going to workout. But they skipped a step, which is providing adequate support to see whether the group can stand on it's own.
I'm a jyp stan and it's the perfect example of a company investing in their flagship (twice) while being supportive of their 2nd group (itzy) and their maknaes (nmixx). All 3 are successful and jyp is making a ton of profits.
The ex head of yg said he wanted to create a girl group like twice but every company should follow the jyp formula of supporting all their groups or at the very least not neglect any of them.
Yes
yes yes yes 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽
*jennie has always been salty of her fellow members*
However jyp can only handle girl groups because they completely ignore their boy groups for yeats
@@jessie2945 yes
I think group promotions wise, Bighit did a great job for TXT. the group is becoming more popular and is creating their own fans without “the involvement of their senior, BTS” as the group’s concept is evolving too throughout the years because they’re not minors anymore. Bighit also allow TXT members to have solo projects like Soobin as MC for Musicbank which clearly attract a lot of new fans, Yeonjun as aotm for studio choom, the maknaes with their radio program, etc.
As mentioned in the video, for security wise, i think the company didn’t expect for 1-2yo group to have such crowd in public. yes, bighit should have anticipated the worse scenario when taking the members in public, but nowadays during TXT 2022 recent world tour, they have much more secure security
But if you remember Sakura even has many bodyguards before debut so its really sad that txt had to outlast that
@@marienikki2816 exactly :(
@@marienikki2816 bighit doesn't have anything to do with that
Bighit has nothing to do with sauka she is under source music a different company. All companies under hybe manger their own artists. All companies under hybe work independently.
@@nicoleloss7987 so? Imagine even a smaller company could manage safety for artist before debut. But Big hit which actually bought them couldnt manage it for their own babies . Isnt it a shame?
Gidle doesn't get anything from their company, the reason they are still alive, thriving, and have music is all thanks to Soyeon and the members of the group. Cube is well known for giving zero shits. Gidle deserves all the support here
If I say so myself, I think TXT are treated fairly well by Hybe/ BigHit.. Their projects are constantly evolving, the members have freedom of creativity within those projects, they're allowed to pursue different things. Their projects are promoted even more efficiently, good collaborations, they're constantly given more and more opportunities, an example of which can be found by their participation on Lola this year. Further, they're the only group besides the 3rd gen to sell and score outstandingly on charts all over the world. And without carefully calculated effort by the agency, this is nearly impossible to do so. They're even on massive tours nowadays.
But if you constantly compare it to BTS, then obviously it'll be different. Even their western counterparts, like Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran doesn't have nearly as much as security as BTS. So, does that mean that those artists are poorly treated by their agencies? No, it just means that BTS is a completely different phenomena within the industry, one that hasn't been experienced since the Beatles era. So, if you constantly compare with them, then of course it'll feel lackluster but it doesn't mean it actually is.
yes exactly my point.
Yea mee too
Definitely its childish to even compare
but txt still needs better security, even if they are not as popular as bts
exactly, plus thinking back bts during their earlier years have less to nothing compared to todays treatment to some rookie grp like.....
People need to understand that HYBE itself isn't 1 Entertainment. It's made out of many different entertainments with their own Ceos and so on. So comparing LS and TXTs treatment is like comparing apples with pears.
LS is under Source Music.
TXT is under BigHit.
Get that
Finally someone say this..
Bighit is also independent to HYBE wc means HYBE doesn’t get to interfere in their activities whilst Lesserafim is also personally handled by Bang Sihyuk, the money invested in them comes from the budget given or borrowed from HYBE, the different treatments are because of the individual companies’ management not because LS is being favored
@@aeshia how is LS handeled by Bang PD when they are under PLEDIS (no hate I just never knew this)
I'm sorry but txt not being as famous as bts means nothing when it it comes to security. I mean, it's people's lives they are putting at risk. Being rich or famous should never be a qualification to have a basic thing like protecting.
Fr still they are idols and its not about who is more famoush tbh.
Thank you for this, txt are very famous maybe not as famous as bts, but they still need proper security and one or two people for "protection" is not enough
Tbh no, bodyguards are expensive enough to hire, we should teach fans to be more respectful, hiring bodyguards for them when they are not even on BTS' level, would greatly affect the profit margin and the company is gonna lose a lot of money.
I agree with you. I mean we aren’t asking for 200 Bodyguards and the same treatment as Bts, but we are asking for enough bodyguards to protect them.
And Le Sserafim are less pooular than TxT and why are they getting better treatmens. Security matters! You think they should let their idols get slapped in the face just because they aren't as popular as the othwr group?
It’s such a big oof with WJSN and IVE. I love WJSN a ton but when I went to KCon I wasn’t the only Ujung who felt the same that this was our last chance to see WJSN before they disbanded due to IVE. Starship should’ve done more for the girls, they’re extremely talented in person. I thought it was just over a screen but no, they sing extremely well in person and great performers that need more spotlight.
Edit: I want to make it clear that I DO NOT hate IVE, they’re very good and I like their songs as well.
Didn't cosmic girl won queendom? They have the momentum now
Don’t forget about Xuan Yi Cheng Xiao and Mei Qi. They were supposed to come back from China for a comeback(especially after the project group Xuan and Mei that they were part of disbanded) but then netizens’ boycott towards them happened and Starship and Yuehua did nothing. Instead they’ve been inactive for 4 years and now that they, along with other Chinese idols, are no longer welcomed to return, they obviously have not done anything to figure out what their future holds.
@@ozamatazbuckshank7467 barely..
@@munchiebear exactly we haven’t heard anything from Chinity in years. Last we heard they’re somewhat thriving in China 🤷🏻
@@ozamatazbuckshank7467 yeah and their queendom money probably went to Ives m/v
Practice may sound terrible but reality hurt
Companies prefer group that make the most profit
just you outing yourself as a hater again with yet another account...
*jennie only cares for herself that's why shes dating V*
@@methylfairy6877 don't put jennie's and v names in your dirty mouth
@@methylfairy6877 why are you dragging Jennie. Is she from Starship then why are you bringing her here. Peeps are way too obsessed with Korea's IT girl, I see...
@@methylfairy6877 go cry about it if you believe cuz someday your V oppa will DEFINITELY go to someone else
As soon as I saw different treatment of groups under same company, my head straight forwardly went towards WJSN and IVE. WJSN have suffered the most under starship. Their rushed debut of 12 unknown girls to an year long hiatus in 2017 for a rookie group to Chinese members leaving and never coming back to denial of opportunities and so much more. If you learn more of their history, u will realise how starship never used WJSN's potential and let them Suffer with low budget comebacks. Although they won QUEENDOM 2 now, I don't think starship will use this win to their advantage and in my opinion is just waiting for their contracts to end. I hope WJSN changes their company where they will be appreciated. No hate on IVE though. They are awesome group.
We don’t know why the Chinese members left and it might not even be the companies fault due to the ten rooms between the countries. Also cravity is ehhh lol
@@brennathecatlover4360 actually we know but u don’t lol
What do you expect from starship, sistar very famous people know their song but they have very small fandom compare to other group. Starship management are 💩
The only reason gidle has comebacks and albums is because Soyeon, Minnie and Yuqi produce them. Soyeon even produced their debut and had to fight for it bc cube didn’t really believe they were going to make it. Members have talked about mistreatments too, the only difference is they make money and that’s why it might seem they’re cubes favorites.
ok i would like to mention about bts and txt situations, like the cat and dog was intentionally promoted the same as boy with luv due to that bts can interact with them as the same time promote them, it’s always happen when it come to other big groups too, and the i know i love you and butter, well is also stated by rm himself that bh was having a hard time to make ikily or finalize it, so it cause txt to move comeback dates due to it’s delay, that’s why bh himself ask rm if he could write or compose the finalization of the song. finally the bodyguards, yes txt has less bodyguards than bts due to their massive fans so maybe that was the reason, but ofcourse it was still unfair for txt not to get some bodyguards, (i’m not saying hybe is favoring bts, but you know army are way bigger than moa, so hybe is really at fault here not the other groups.) and yah those harassment yeonjun got was unacceptable and disgusting.
Being a Ujung since 2017, hurts me so much, they are 13 extremely talented girls and they deserved so much more
It felt like Cube had no direction or plan when it came to Lightsum. I liked their debut enough but they disappeared quickly and it was clear from their follow up that their was no one creatively directing/ leading Lightsum. They blended into the background so fast (for me at least)
Of course it is common because it's just human behaviour. This can be seen even in classrooms.
We can't take off this problem out of kpop
6:54 “Since it’s likely that the profits of WJSN as a whole were said to not even equal to half of the money Wonyoung brought to SSE, asking the company to treat them like treating IVE was rather too much”
Really hurt my heart as an UJUNG 💔💔💔
Yeah that’s really sad : (
WJSN was a mess IMO, they create big group but don't know how to manage them. After Chinese member left i never heard anything from them
@@cheesecake7159 Every group from starship is mismanaged it’s not even a surprise anymore lol
the scout that able to recruit wonyoung to starship got rewarded
Should be
Wjsn's career never really took off. During their predebut/ rookie years, some members appeared in variety shows and survival shows like Unpretty rapstar. Also, the company had that "zodiac" concept going for them. The company also decided to include Yeonjung from IOI into the group. However, those were not enough to help the group to be successful. Then, people forgot about them and they got buried after newer groups debut. If you compare to IVE, all plans of the company worked to make them successful. Wonyoung and Yujin were in IZONE and they got really popular from that. I guess it is a combination of luck and timing. I don't support the company's treatment of wjsn but it seems like through the trials and errors starship made from wjsn they learned how to make Ive a success. Unfortunate fate for Wjsn.
Well but wjsn still exist with all the money they have now can do better for wjsn
@@skyler5679 I don’t think starship will ever consider that because they see WJSN as not worth spending a ton on since they’re not incredibly popular and with their contracts expiring soon it would take a miracle for Starship to start treating them better
@@skyler5679 but that will make Ive acts cheaper and starship would have a chance of loosing popularity of Ive without gaining anything from WJSN and now that 3rd gen group other than big3 and some popular groups are fading I also believe that now that the end of their career investing in them would be any help to their popularity or stuff
TXT and BTS are different
But size of fandom do matters
They give more bodyguards to
More famous one
Because they need more security
But ya they should do something about sexual harrasment of members
ik
I mean if bts has over 100 and txt only has 2 or 3, they could at least let them have a couple of more for proper security
@@yasminchan7425 its changed, look the recent ones. The ones shown in the video are old ones
Hybe does regular lawsuits but cant sue against evety hate coment people tend to forget that
Moas don’t want the same treatment as Bts, they want enough treatment for Txt (Does it make sense?). Txt doesn’t need 200 but they need at least enough to protect them.
On a serious note, WJSN is really good group. I have been always bg stan but I randomly came across Unnatural song by WJSN and I was surprised by their vocals, visuals and charisma. Each and every member has their own charm and they got really great potential. I feel bad for them for not getting much exposure.
I feel so sad for Lightsum.They are my ults but Cube do such a bad job promotin them
To be fair, it is Cube, so we shouldn't be too surprised that they screwed this up.
It’s cube they only care about g idle
@@brennathecatlover4360 no
Cube treats every group badly
IDLE only strives cuz Soyeon and other 2 can write and produce songs on their own
Cube literally is afraid of them
Light Sum are basically another Clc
@@brennathecatlover4360 nope even G idle has gotten mistreated
It makes sense for companies to spend more money on groups with better sales and opportunities. It's just simple logic. If a company spends more money on a group with better sales/opportunities they will make even more money and become successful, meanwhile if they spend on a group with low sales and little opportunities they will lose a lot of money.
If song will nice everyone buy album though the company not giving good music too it is also problem .
@@스네하보라색이네요 TXT's songs aren't the problem their fandom's laziness is.
You are missing the most important step, a company should provide enough support, that includes quality music, choreo and most importantly promotions to se if the group can suceed. Pledis don't put the effort and then act surprise when their project aren't working well. Ive would have never been succesful without their Izone members because Pledis simply never provide any real support to developp their group and Ive would not have been an exeption. Pledis is honeslty a dumb company business wise, they could be ten times bigger if only they believe a little more in their artists and pushed them from the start.
@@MM-kj8os But IVE are from Starship Ent. not from Pledis Ent.
@@MM-kj8os but the fans are at fault too. Why complain if you’re not even supporting the group cuz if the group isn’t doing well what’s the point of even trying cuz the fans won’t do anything
there's never a day within kpop where someone isnt complaining about something.
So true
It think it’s obvious that the more popular group gets more resources but I also think everyone so have security like it’s extremely important and take action to cyber bullying. That should be equal
Of course companies would pour more money into their most popular groups. That's just business. That doesn't make it right.
It makes sense for a company to give more attention to the group that makes more profit. I think they use that group's profits to improve their apartments.. But I just hope in the case of the bodyguards issue, everyone deserves protection regardless of how much he or she brings to the company.
All artists under hybe have alot of bodyguard
SM with red velvet v nct
it angers me so much that RV would've been way more popular if they were given proper treatment. But they achieved so much solely on their own
I think SM can only manage one girl group at a time, so when aespa came along, they kind of just forgot about RV (no hate to aespa!). Look at the differences between SNSD and f(x). Same thing with boy groups. Since NCT has become so popular, look what happened to EXO.
@@allie5954 nah, they have been mistreating them WAY BEFORE aespa debut... they decide to promote nct until they got famous cuz they are sexist and cpuld not stand a male sm group not being popular, spedially this bug proyect that has been sm target since forever .... a never ending group like akb48
In other hand red velvet had comebacks like zimzalabim that was a joke for kpoppers for the longest time for the hideous outfits
@@jjba3571 I see what you mean. I think I was trying to be generous by saying they did better (not great) in the beginning (like until 2019). It was around the time NCT started getting popular (no hate to NCT; they deserve the agency’s support as well and have nothing personally to do with RV’s poor management). Was it sexism? Probably played a part, but also (generally speaking) boy groups are more profitable due to the overwhelming support of female fans. I think it was a combination of sexism and good ol’ cooperate greed.
And I might die alone on this hill, but I actually like Zimzalabim! I can agree with the questionable styling though…
Reve is popular tho but I think more in Korea. U act like they’re nugu when they’re not lol
@@jjba3571 how’s that sexist when it’s normal to promote newer groups. Reve doesn’t need 50 thousand promotions they honestly do fine
That's how business works, you get the fortune that you bring to your company. Ofcourse that does not mean the companies should treat the idols like trash. But they're only gonna get what they've earned. And it's not just kpop, literally any usual employee or worker has to go through mistreatment time to time depending on the condition of the company. Kpop is a job afterall. People are able to point out such things in entertainment agencies because they see it directly on TV or internet but it's nothing different from how a normal office worker is treated, it's just less public.
Txt is famous but Bts is more famous than them, however now hybe treat Txt better than the other companies and le sserafim is in source music so it different from big hit
Preach
Accept the hard reality
We are also treated based upon our success... so what's wrong here
BTS is more famous and therefore need more bodyguards. Can't expect them to be treated the same if the company doesn't receive the same amount of money off of the group's. Also I've only heard about I've not the other group
How are these mistreated groups going to have their time to shine if the company doesn’t give them the time or money to do so? Smh
aside from the bodyguard thing ,the group are treated the way they have been succeeding ,you cant expect a group that dont bring much to the company to get the same treatment as a group who have been steadily succeeding since their debut , they use the money they earn
You're right, but that does not give rights companies to treat groups like trash
txt is literally hybes best seller after bts and when bts will enlist and fade out hybe will wake up w nothing.
@@von1glik waiting for this day tbh
@@von1glik
Seventeen in the second best seller in Hybe.
All artists under hybe bring in profits.
After bts seventeen txt enhypen.
Bts and txt bighit music
Seventeen pledis entertainment
Enhypen belift lab
Bighit was such good guy
His mature version hybe is
So not 🙄
yea
Exactly but he didn't treat BTS nicely before they grew to fame
Bighit : a couple before married.
HYBE : a couple after married with 3,4 kids.
It should be diff. Nothing wierd 🙃
@@rhesafrederick2806 I guess you are new to BTS. They built the company...it's not that they didn't treat them well. They didn't have the money to treat them better back then. It's a long run development for bts. Not some big 3 thing back then.
@@ajaym9714 no I'm not
Plus I'm not talking about money,I'm talking about real mistreatment
This provers how good of companies are YG and SM, they do not let their groups overlap each other and maintain a decent consistency between all of their groups let it be their most famous ones or just the famous ones. Their groups are divided in two groups, the ones that are more known internationally and the ones that are more popular in Korea. To me that’s really good because they know how to manage each of their groups accordingly even if they go on hiatus or not their hype doesn’t really end and that to me is smart tactics
guuuuuuurl bfr
Companies only pour money on groups who can make the most of money, its sad but its business
CLC 😭
Who are they
@@jayeshkumaryadav4290 exactly
@@jayeshkumaryadav4290 they were under the Same company as (G)idle (CUBE ENT.) They used to treat so shitty from their angency but now they are already disband.
Just to make sure we're using the right rhetoric here... we're talking more about favoritism from corporate profit margins, not discrimination. Most if not of all of these neglected groups are not being given the shaft because of bias based on them as people, thank god. But because they don't make money (or as much money). Which devil's advocate... makes sense. Companies spend A LOT of money training idols with the gamble they'll work out and whether it be just lack of luck, poor management, or terrible fandoms, most of the time they don't. I don't understand keeping them on the hook for the their contract if you're not gonna use them or activey downplay them so they make even less money for you, but I do understand hitting gold with one group and wanting to keep digging and abandoning the "dead ends" you found along the way, from a business standpoint. We should refrain from using buzzwords like discrimination to get clicks, because that is actually a very serious issue even in Korea when it comes to ethnicity and skin tone, and this kind of isn't the case here. Fandoms tend to blow things out of proportion, especially when it comes to their faves. But please look at it objectively. Not saying it can't be, but this isn't what is being dicussed for the most part.
For WJSN it's completely on Starship. Yeonjung was a member of IOI, so it's not like she was a nobody when she joined the group in 2016. She brought in some fans, and the fandom for WJSN is pretty solid, esp in Korea. They have a lot of great songs and their own vibe different from that of IVE. But yes, Wonyoung is the massive It girl in K-pop right now, so it makes sense that Ive would debut and get more than WJSN did in their early days--but after seven years, you'd think WJSN would still get a little more from their company. Sure, they're not the hit that Ive is, but they've won some music shows, some awards, and have built a solid fanbase and career for themselves.
To clarify, this is nothing against Ive or Wonyoung. They absolutely deserve everything they have achieved/been given and more. Just stating that Starship Ent. should put give WJSN more respect.
This pains my heart so much as an Ujung.
Not even comparing with Ive, the living condition during WJSN’s debut era was really bad. 13 members + 1 manager sharing such a small place, there are so many people that the only place the member could have their privacy was their own bed with the makeshift curtain. For sure, Starship/Yuehua could do better. In term of discographies, WJSN pioneered cosmic sound and all their albums contained really good songs.
Yeah. You got the point. WJSN and IVE are like in two separate worlds, as if they had different company.
When nu'est was still active i could tell that pledis really favored seventeen obviously. Seventeen went to many award shows, variety shows, radio shows, they had amazing content for their youtube channel, went on vlive many times, and had multiple comebacks in the same year. While nu'est barely got to promote, had poor content for their youtube channel, they didn't have any extravagant sets for their music videos, barely went on vlive, and they literally had a comeback once a year. These companies only care about money so if one group is doing better than the other, obviously they're gonna pay more attention to that group. I just wish companies wouldn't be so biased and promote all of their groups equally but i know that will never happen 🤷♂️😐
Grown up. Both groups were promoted
I think that the groups had an initial amount of investment(the company, sponsors, investors) that should last them like maybe 1 or 2 years? After that different groups have different budget depending on their popularity/sales/revenue.. Marketing, album/songs production, training, rent, bodyguards, employees, everything cost money. The groups treatment basically depends on themselves. The company would expect to earn money from the group instead of just keep investing in them without return. It is a career/business sadly the company is not some non-profit charity organization.
Tbh most people are saying how cube is biased towards (g)-idle when soyeon is literally carrying the whole group.
Be honest if it wasn't for soyeon's producing and lyrics skills (g)-idle would have mostly ended up like CLC or Lightsum (no hate to CLC or Lightsum they have so much talent but if they were given better producers)
Yeah people forget that soyeon loterally wrote and produce their debut somg zucuz cube keep delaying their debut
if latata didn't become a hit then the mv for hann-tomboy will be as cheap looking as latata mv... i dont hate it but honestly speaking it is so obvious how cube gave a low budget for latata's mv... among all ( )i-dle mvs latata got the cheapest looking one for the old storage building set which looks like an mv from an indie artists... although their are some elements of the mv that looks like given budget and effort like the pink horse in minnie's part and the vehicle at the start, the other props are very usual that they can be found every where.
@@aejaesa6039 Cube was on the verge of going bankrupt at the time therefore it was cheap
That is why Idol group who thinks they are mistreated need to learn from Gidle.
Learn to get back up on your own feet instead of complaing.
Gidle didn't even have a debut song while almost every group in K-Pop do. They made it because they themself do all the work
@@gwenmloveskpopandmore i dont think bankruptcy is the reason why latata is low budgeted, because hann looks budgeted... according to minnie's brother deleted post cube entertainment doesnt really want to invest in (g)i-dle at first but after latata's success they do want to invest... and it is really obvious that cube still has budget to make better mvs because not to long after latata's mv release hann with better set and quality came out it is quite impossible that ( )i-dle's debut album sales can budget that mv when it didnt belong to cube's most album sales... even if how hard you try to defend cube there are a lot of things that really shows how they mismanage their artists... looking at the scenario now i think cube wouldnt want ( )i-dle to leave them especially because not only that ( )i-dle brought them huge revenue but also they dont have any other groups who can do it like ( )i-dle... cube is in fact poor in promoting it's group.....
WJSN deserves better, those girls have worked their butts or and got nothing. No promotion whatsoever
I really feel bad for the idols not treated properly coz they worked so hard and spent their childhood and teen years working under some company trusting it to make their future bright but alas
Txt is during well in Korea and international. They are treated very well.
Well I was and still am an Ahgase for years and I didn't stan any group since I got into GOT7. When GOT7 left JYPE in 2021 and started to got into their own ways, TXT caught my attention and after several years, I started to stan an another group and become a MOA. So yeah, it hella hurts to know that both groups I loved deeply mistreats by their company and lack of promotion. just DAMN.
What are you talking about Txt isn't mistreated and they has good promotion even there ouw variety show you don't relly know about them ugggh
@@linncruz8077 they promoted for Thursday child only for 2 weeks cmon is that you called good promotion
@@hiyyihluv1614 cuz they had other promotions.
@@avi3354 what other promotion you talking about??
Txt has put many albums since their debut.
About the dorms Starship has more money now compared to back then.
Txt is well promoted well i dont know .. its not true that hybe doesent do anything against harrasment. They regulary post information about lawsuits etc they are doing against people who crossing a line.. the Bodyguard situation couls be better there i agree also for enhypen.
Bts and txt are under bighit music. Enhypen are under belief lab. 2 different companies. Hybe only only a parent company.
I came for the tea 🍵 but this is sad even considering the economic aspects.... Just sad
Ngl Hybe does treats txt better ,yall need to stop comparing txt to bts ,they are different artist . Their success ,fame,luxuries are way different . Maybe bts has their own personal bodyguards too ,who does not belong to hybe. Anyways no one is asking for 150 bodyguards all we were asking for 10 bodyguards who can protect txt well.
why people comparing groups that debuted in 2013 with boygroup who debuted in 2019, nonsense
(G)I-DLE being Cubes favorite I don’t know from what I read them girls are mistreated but they keep them lights on😭😭😭😭 so they have no choice but to continue letting them girls be great and do them
If it wasn’t for Soyeon herself idle would be no where. Yeah it’s true they’re all being mistreated because all groups in cube have gotten mistreated
I dont agree with lightsum and gidle.. i would say that both groups are mistreated by cube and whatever gidle is getting was fought by the members themselves especially soyeon.. since lightsum are still rookies and are the youngest in cube, they are still probably scared of the company and will not have the courage to voice out their wants and needs moreover fight for what they deserve.. hopefully one day lightsum will get the treatment they deserve as they are such a talented group like their seniors..
This is a numbers game and has to remain a numbers game, otherwise you don’t get content of any group.
There’s basic respect, which is given on a human to human level, but as for money distribution that’s obviously given to the most lucrative group around in the company. As well as chances, time, energy, staff, travel, rent etc..all falling under money.
You need your groups to be independent and if they can’t do it, they’ve go. Improvement needs to happen quick.
You can’t dump a ton of money into a group that doesn’t make it quick, as money drains fast.
This is for any business in any country around the globe.
There’s a tight window of when a company needs to stop bl*eding cash, when you break even and when you first make a profit.
They’re all pretty tight and need to be kept. There’s little room to sway.
Ya it’s nice to have investors and attempt to sell them a false reality for more money, but that doesn’t last long for most.
Same with groups that have talent but just don’t get enough money being brought in.
The chances of that happening, again and again are low. There’s only a handful that were given a chance, for good reason.
This gets even worse when you add the constant trends changing in each part of the world, the improvement of standards in society and it’s morals along with its technology.
It’s extremely hard to push a group consistently with all of the above changing.
You’ve to fit them into a box, then another, then another to get the right image to get the right tune to capture the right moment, to get the right view to be successful. And success if the goal.
If companies treated everyone the same they’d run out of money 20 years ago.
They’d have nothing for future projects, training, music demos, producers etc.
They wouldn’t get 1/10 of what they have today.
If people assume it’s this easy to run a company and give all groups equality they should attempt it themselves.
Even idols who make their own companies realize the harsh reality and discuss the terror of having to half trainees and groups because of how bad they’re doing.
You can’t run by breaking even or making little profit.
People don’t understand the loans, the investors, the interest, the royalties and the deals these companies have to share their cut with.
Get real. The company wouldn’t even be taking to cents to a dollar with all they share.
Many of the royalties along, that they sign to share for deals and such, would be a 70% cut.
That’s all their profit to balance the books.
You have to discriminate in every single work field out there.
To not do so means the end of your business.
This entire mentality of “don’t discriminate” is for children.
There’s no understanding of when a company gets that it needs competition with itself and focusing on different regions for different things.
This means debuting groups at the same time.
In addition to a whole other amount of issues of having different departments for each group, this will happen.
People need to put their feet back on the ground and hit reality.
Discrimination is what brought them kpop and got it to be successful as it is.
If people think it’s as simple as a company getting bigger means equal money or more for other groups, they’re wrong.
You have to prove your income for that company to invest more.
That’s the way it goes. Otherwise this big company would be regressing to its former self
Well at the end of the day it's a business. It's a give and take....if u make high profit then of course u deserve a high rate.
Talking about company discrimination how is SM not here.
Their treatment of SNSD, SJ, EXO vs FX.
FX didn't even have fandom name or lightstick or a concert tour like their label mates.
I can go on about this all day. f(x) didn’t have concerts until 2015, but EXO got their first concert in 2014, no fan name until 2016 (shortly after they went on an indefinite hiatus), and got promoted maybe once a year, with short promotion periods. And yet, they still opened a lot of doors for k-pop today. They were the first k-pop group that went to SXSW, which opened the floor for k-pop acts to go to American music festivals, like Coachella. They arguably have the most critically lauded k-pop album with Pink Tape which sold over 100k copies. They opened the door for a lot of girl groups to experiment with sounds and looks. And yet SM treated them like shit. Imagine if they didn’t.
@@katierodrigo5893 FX is flop, if they weren't from SM no one would've known them.
my personal opinion: i find wjsn's songs r quality earworm songs too, along with ive (which is why i stan both groups). wjsn r also given rlly good outfits since 2019 (there were a couple of times they used high end brands as well
i think the main issue here is not abt the quality of comebacks from ive n wjsn respectively, rather its the promotion that's the issue. SSE does not promote wjsn as well, as seen from their limited appearances on award shows even after QD2 win (ofc i wldnt expect that they wld attend the more popular award shows but i thought they shld appear on AAA as a full grp, circle chart music award etc)
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again, this issue of unequal treatment seems to be very prevalent in mid-range companies (as seen from cube also)
I know this might sound weird but there's something iffy to me about groups who start with like a silver spoon compared to groups who built up their career through struggles. like I know they all go through packed schedules and practices but it's different when they start off with luxuries. I think what's so amazing about BTS is that they started with barely anything but worked so hard and got to where they are with a humble background. Like even coming from lower income households like myself, I find more comfort in them. I know I am bias but I think TXT deserve a lot more than other groups and I feel like they do get good treatment but then again idk everything lol. Also I get that there is a budget for groups to debut but having a new group that's flashy with the sets and wears designer clothing in their debut also is weird, like they don't know if the group will actually succeed. LS seems like a cool group and they already have a big company name for them but I think that scandal kinda made things tense idk, I dont really pay attention to girl groups 🙃
I think there are too many members in a group. I hope all the groups become successful!
Company investing into groups that make no money just makes no sense.
If u make more money u get treated better. Simple
If those companies are just gonna treat their other groups unfairly then they shouldn’t just debut them. They should really build a system where they can predict the success that their future groups will have. I know it might be impossible but we’ll never know in the future if they’ll be able to make one.
🤨
I dont think that Starship is bad company only because of WJSN case. I love starship for their choice of music and concepts. Cosmic girls have wonderful songs and visuals but they were not so popular from the debut times before IVE s come, so this isnt IVEs fault at all. Even if they hadnt debut they will be treated in that way... because
Rgt wjsn are flop.
@@hmmmk7630 only in ur dreams
Yeah plus it’s not the 1st time it happened Boyfriend got neglected because of Monsta X
Investment and treatment are what determine a group's popularity but groups are treated and managed (= money invested in them) differently depending on their popularity... it's a vicious circle
It's funny how a lot of people love to make excuses as soon as people find something wrong a label is doing to a group those dudes had that many security guards but your new group doesn't you supposed to protect your artist the same. And the way they treat groups different under the companies is why a lot of people always say why the hell would you want to join a group in K-pop there's always favoritism and the company don't give a damn they just want money. This is why so many groups went down and they quit if I ran a record label all of my artists getting treated the same freedom to write their own music and do other things outside the company they're making you lots of money what's the point of putting them against each other. This reminds me of Lou Pearlman look how he put NSYNC and Backstreet Boys against each other even though both groups were bringing millions of dollars in what a shame
Momoland and t1419 are even sadder, Momoland brought all the money and their company used it on their unknown boy group, they even got Momoland's apartment and the girls were kicked out
This reminds me of Cube, the different treatment between CLC and G-(IDLE).
txt and lesserafim are under different management. what they do is up to their agencies. if lesserafim spend a lot of money to rent a skyscraper or even a private island for lesserafim, it's under source music responsibility and nothing to do with txt (bighit). both have their own funds from hybe.
Thank you.
Le sserfirm just debute under source music and are having their 1 comeback Oct 17.
Txt is treated very well and because in a great profits..
there will never be equality in this world
Lol just because they aren't as popular as other groups that does not mean you have to treat less popular ones like a trash. Ofc they aren't gonna be popular when you promote them like shit. At least give them goof security and a dorm which is not like garbage
SNSD and f(x) are the 1st groups that came to my mind.
Loving baby - SNSD
Trash - f(x)
Can you make a part 2?
Yes bodyguards are being lectured but not their rowdy fans???
At the end of day, Kpop is a business and whichever group will bring more revenue will get better treatment... Simple as that!
Yes I see different treatment between IVE and WJSN but WJSN are in my heart! Their songs, mvs, choreos and costumes are super top quality! I like IVE so much but I love WJSN!
That's the point WJSN
Have great costume,songs,music and choreo and everything but if they still aren't as popular as Ive than that's not starship or Ive fault
@@BaemonFan but they don't get promoted enough compared to I've so it is starships fault they don't invest in them enough
i would say Xdinary Heroes. Most groups under JYP became pretty famous (twice, stray kids, got7,2pm...) but they didn't even give XH a chance bc as soon as they debuted they just disappeared until their next comeback. JYP is seriously sleeping on these poor boys. Like their so talented and unique for what? XH is the only group i know that plays guitar, keyboard, drums, can rap and can sing. i cant name any other group that plays instruments as well as their voices.
To that, I would say you're forgetting about DAY6. Personally, I feel like the only reason JYP pushed XH to debut was because they wanted to dispose of DAY6. As a MyDay, I was pretty shocked that JYP wanted to debut another band especially when I saw that one of the XH members were pretty upset about having to debut as a band member when he trained all his life as an idol.
Starship & YueHua only has words and no actions when it’s towards WJSN, the girls had no proper pre debut activities and relied solely on EXY for her appearance on Unpretty Rapstars as a leverage for their debut. Not only that, but they completely change the group’s concept from Girl Crush to Cute a few weeks before debut and did not have enough funding for the project as a whole, they were totally rushed to debut knowing that Sistar was about to reach their 7 year mark and having a failed to debut group in 2014 only shortened their time.
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YeonJung who was in the initial lineup was cut from the debut team because they and 2 others had already signed a contract to participate in Produce101 Season 1 which started filming back in late 2015, but Starship wanted a 12 member lineup as their debut because of the whole Zodiac / horoscope concept that the group has and decided to debut the original 12 members.
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The group also debuted at the wrong time, since this was a collab group between Starship & YueHua, they were initially suppose to promote in 2 countries simultaneously… the plans ended when the Chinese government put a ban on kpop and everything the companies wanted was completely ruined, that’s also probably why YueHua decided to pull their Chinese members back. Butterfly era was definitely the final page between the 2 companies before the group completely transition from WJSN/Cosmic Girls to just WJSN. ( they used to introduce themselves as cosmic girls to international fans but now they just go by their Korean name )
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The housing situation got better after awhile but 13 members + 1 manager used to live in the same dorm with only 1 bathroom.
Their debut album was a bunch of post cards and a CD
The debut MVs for both MoMoMo & CatchMe were in the same location with different colouring and you can totally tell how budget it was compared to every other Starship group. Do we also need to talk about the outfits? Only Catch Me’s stage outfits were the best (only because that was suppose to be their main concept)
They were originally gonna have 2 MVs (3 if you count the Chinese release as 1) every comeback but it was scrapped and the idea was later given to their Junior group Cravity.
Their 1st RePackaged full album got delayed and ultimately CANCELED sending the rookie group into a year hiatus.
There’s many other things that went wrong and it’s just so upsetting, it’s not any of the group’s mentioned at fault, just bad timing, bad company management and lack of funding that caused all this. Coming from a fan of starship groups, this is very painful… The group on paper is the best group out there, they have amazing vocalists, amazing rappers, amazing dancers, they can produce their own music, they can choreograph their own dances, but everything that’s suppose to support them was barely there to keep them alive. So yes Hi Orbits, us UJungs know the pain very well and we only wish the best for everyone!
You forgot to insert Kep1er & TO1 😀
That's worse to be honest. Kep1er is the one earning the money and they are the one being mistreated.
Le sserfirm is source music under hybe. That just debute in may.
about TXT, BTS and LS: We all know the great success Bts has as the biggest bg internationally and how much money the label got bc of them. TXT debuted when it was still BIGHIT (2019) and had been training there for years (Yeonjun has the longest time there with 4y), It was known BH wanted a to debut a new group (they tried with a gg but didn't end well). For this 3 years, since day one, TXT showed how capable they are as a group, the quality in their music, great sales and that. In terms of promotion, mvs and music I think the company treats them equally, however the moment of their first tour in USA they give them THEATERS with 4k of capacity!! That's not something you give to a group with amazing sales there, the security should be better for TXT and about LS i don't follow them so I can't say much about it
Bighit put out a statement saying txt will be getting bigger venues for their next tour.
Le sserfirm is under source music one of hybe sublabels
the examples mentioned about how Gidle is being treated better than Lightsum are recent, but when Gidle debuted people said the exact same thing about them...that they didn´t had boudget and no content, every group starts the same and by saying this i actually don´t see Lightsum not having support..yes i do agree promotions maybe not as good as other rookies, but their songs are not bad quality "Vanilla" maybe not everyones cup of tea but it wasn´t bad and htis year their song was made by the same group that makes the songs for Itzy and have the same choreographers as Ive and they have really good stylists too.
Also about the fact that they don´t make their own music like the other groups, lets not forget that BTOB and Pentagon debuted they didn´t make their music, not until 2 or 3 years, for Gidle they were going to debut with company song but since they didn´t found the right one, Hui suggested Soyeon to make her own song for the debut...so Lightsum have time to find their style first.
“wjsn’s failure” ma’am did you hear yourself?
Honestly I think that they give lots of security to bts becouse theyre seniors, if you see the 1st 3 years of bts then you can see how much security they had, its just the amount of time or popularity they have in the industry, i think it may be fair....
I knew about lightsum right when they debuted and I loved it they have so much talent and I wished cube treats them better
I think having BTS and TXT promotions partially overlap was entirely done on purpose for marketing reasons. Because TXT were newer rookies, their name wasn't out there as much and some people may not look into them. But by having them on music shows at the same time as BTS, more people will be likely to see them. Lots of ARMYs and Korean gp will tune in for BTS and, in the process, see TXT. Pretty smart if you ask me.
True
If my company ditched me and my brothers at an airport, I'd take it upon myself to be a security guard. Don't want to protect us? Fine, I'll do it myself! I won't let my friends get hurt due to negligence.
I'm not kidding. I mean it.
What do you mean...how are you taking it on yourself to be a bodyguard?
Do the bodyguard job. Guide them through the airport. Keep them safe. I'd take the pushing, touching and pulling if it meant my members could be left almost untouched
3:52 I want a replica of that round thing. Would look nice on the coffee table as a drink coaster 👍
the differences are sad but that’s just how companies work. those who make more money will have more promo and budget.
Bro this is so sad, like whyy. Also did anyone see what that weird sesang said? They said that they would do something very weird but I can’t say it
That's why I prefer to stan small-to-mid companies who has only one or two groups (a BG and a GG) under their roofs,
yet regard them as precious assets despite low budgets.
btob, pentagon and gidle are self producing idols. i wish lightsum will not end up like clc, unless they make their own music on the next combacks find their own unique sound.
Imagine the idols who are treated badly in compare to their juniors will always go to bed thinking what did they wrong? or what they are lacking after all that hard work, and what did they do deserve this? it is so f****d up. I'm never gonna stan those groups because if I'll do it will legitimize the agency decisions and their discriminations and will make them assure that what they are doing is right. Sorry won't stand behind it.
this happens with every rookie group so it is not fair to compare
like comparing bts to txt?
@@houseofbangtan6689 yeah
What a shame! I believe there is a favoritism one of this group especially on those popular!
Their should be minimum standards in every company depending on its capability and as humane as we are humans n