Never ever portrayed to be a good bowler, but I love being a league bowler…gets me out of the house, and at least provides for consistently oiled lanes vs. open bowling where the lanes go several days between oil being applied. But that said…there are a lot of egos out there.
I have never thought that I was better than a pro bowler whenever I bowled a great game. The only person I knew that criticized the pros was a fellow employee who wasn't a bowler but a pretty good golfer. He said that he couldn't believe he saw what was supposed to be a pro bowler bowl a 140 game on tv, and that he has gone bowling before, drank lots of beer and still managed to bowl a 200. I explained to him about the lane conditions and the number of games the pros bowl but he wasn't hearing none of it. I bowl in a senior league with some pretty good bowlers. At least they're good in my opinion. Even though we are seniors team want to win and there are many competitive matches. I don't have to bowl in a scratch league or be a touring pro to consider myself a competitor. Bowling in the 70's thru the 90's was great in my hometown. There were tournaments every week and about 15 bowling centers open. Now, there are about 6 left. I think Bowlero hasn't helped at all. Their marketing ideas suck balls! I've never seen 5 people at the foul line cheering a bowler on. That's the promo Bowlero puts out. Anyway, too much ranting. RJ, I disagree with you on everything you said.
Can bowling manufacturers survive without league? I've worked a bit in pro shops i doubt we survive without leagues. Coaches too most coaches survive off senior bowlers
Good point. Most casual bowlers I see going in a pro shop will look for the cheapest hooking ball right above the plastic line that also looks cool. I see it all the time when I’m getting new thumb inserts or having something modified.
Mmy opinion if booking is dying kinda depends if u are a HAVE or a HAVE NOT. Centers are pricing out the common folk looking for fun, and with equipment prices through the roof, and with more and more centers going to string pins, I think bowling in general will continue to decline.
As bowlero buys up most independent centers, their model of jacking prices for open play and leagues is absolutely stupid. They nickel and dime the centers they own and don't fix anything! They will run these centers into the ground and destroy the product. Bowling will suffer tremendously at the hands of bowlero. My bowlero at Fredericksburg in Virginia has needed a new oil machine for 4 years. It can't put out any pattern correctly or with any consistency. The previous mechanic knowingly sabotaged/destroyed the machine and still bowlero won't replace it. In a 50 lane center we have at least 10 lanes that the racks are so messed up you can't hardly strike at all. This company is a disgrace!
@StephRenee812 the guy who owns bowlero doesn't think it's a serious sport, he thinks of it as a recreational sport. That's why open play is more of their priority than league bowlers.
My center wouldn't even be open if not for leagues. 6 nights a week.. 4 days with 2+ leagues. Some of the biggest leagues in So Cal. Also, y'all can hate bowlero all you want. But, the fact is there are 200+ centers across the U.S. that are only still open because bowlero saved them. Talking trash about most of your audience doesn't seem like a smart move.
@free2befree you don't know what you're talking about. Bowlero bought 10 or so centers in my area that were previously owned by bowl america. Every single one of them got worse and more expensive! The amf and bowlero in my area already sucked for several years, and have only gotten worse! If you want to speak for yourself and your experience, that's fine, but this company is garbage! I've seen too much to defend these fu@kers! Maybe your area has a district manager who isn't a peice of sh!t. Idk.. I know I won't have you tell me I'm wrong when you don't know what most of us already do. I'd say shut up and consider yourself lucky that you aren't dealing with bull sh!t a lot of us are. If we want anything to improve, we need to speak up! So, defend the corporate fu@ks if you want.. but you don't know shit!
I’m a disabled veteran that bowls on a Senior league . My bowling arm is fused and I’ll never have a 250 average. I bowl with a 93 year old lady and high scores or who acts like they have the biggest tool doesn’t come up in our league. We are a group of good friends that don’t take ourselves too seriously. Bye
I know JR is trying not to lump all league bowlers together, but it comes off that way. I think most of us 200-230 average bowlers know our limitations. Every league has that guy or two, but everyone else knows whats up. Also without league bowlers I don't think the bowling companies out there would survive long term and that WOULD be bad for bowling. JR is very matter of fact, but not everything is black or white.
I bowled league with PBA and high level tournament guys in it. It was such a chill league. We all knew league was just for giggles for these guys and it permeated to everyone. I'm in a handicap league now and people take it more seriously.
Our league went from eight teams last year to four teams this year. It's my wife and I's day to get away from our kids. Plus it's good for some socialization. Edit: there's 2 teams in our league that they will put different patterns down for. Another guy and I asked for different lane patterns. So when both our teams face off, we get completely different patterns on adjacent lanes.
You do realize that most sales of bowling equipment come from league bowlers? Try keeping a house or pro shop open without them. I've been bowling for 40+ years on leagues, and I can tell you with certainty you have the ego problem, not us! You're just grasping at straws to try to save your ass for biting the hand that feeds you!
This is what I hear, but you ain't saying it... The "Good" bowlers don't like bowling against bowlers who get pins, it makes the playing field (more) level (insert ego). You can beat them on "challenge" patterns because you are "good" bowlers (insert ego). Realistically the scratch bowlers can't afford to have their own league, and great bowlers can't afford to make a living on tour.... Cracking on any bowlers or "bowlers" (as you say) is not good for bowling! Lets all be better, and have fun, ffs!
In our area there was a brand new house built on the assumption there was going to be no leagues. They were going to survive on open bowling and church groups. Was not long before they changed their minds because open bowling and groups were not paying the bills. So they started leagues Monday-Friday with youth on Saturday so they would have steady income instead of waiting for someone to come bowling on a whim. I think in order to be certified all house shots should be certified USBC patterns. Yes league bowlers can be a pain but some of these bowlers are bowling 2 to 3 nights a week plus buying bowling balls every year and paying $200+ for each one plus maybe drilling. We have no sport shot leagues because nobody will come out. The higher average bowlers will not even bowl scratch leagues or tournaments on house shots. Which I guess is one point you were making. Bowling in our area is on life support. Clearly not what it was in the 80’s and 90’s when we had double leagues every night except Sunday. Like mine, this is just one persons opinion. Feels more like click bait than actual help, yes I clicked on it. Just my 2 cents.
If bowling center feel that leagues are a hinderance to their centers, then why do they agree to allow leagues? Leagues are great to bring a community together too have fun and learn more about the sport of bowling. Individuals will be individuals including arrogant cocky PBA bowlers!!!!
Open bowlers are reckless, trying to damage equipment. I see it every time I go when I'm not bowling league. The worst of them are the ADULTS. I work second shift, if there's no Sunday leagues then why bother bowling? Team atmosphere keeps it going. Not sure how you can sell training tools and trash league bowlers at the same time. These people who come and throw 2+ balls down the lane at the rake at once are not buying shit from you
There is only leagues in most areas in upstate ny. Proprietor at my center prefers it, people off the street are rough on everything league bowlers know the rules
I would love to bowl in a league that changed the shot from week to week. I'm all up for a challenge. Modified house shot, sport patterns, PBA patterns etc. I would love to learn on those and we even have a center on Sunday's that's does a thing called sport shot Sunday's to where they reserve like 10 to 12 lanes and put a sport shot out on it for open play. Granted u wanna get there early so u can learn on the fresh but I thought it was a great thing when they started doin this. Also I would like to ask ya tho. What do u do with the guys that bowl on leagues Thursdays and Fridays cuz they enjoy the sport and that's the only nights that they have to make time to bowl, what would u suggest they do?
Bowling has been replaced by funnel ball a long time ago. Like a game I discovered playing with golf balls in my bath tub My technique is so good I never miss the drain. Unlike my cat and a gecko on my wall, I know how to get the ball in the tub and keep score. I think that gives me GOAT status and immuned to haters
Wow you sound like a gatekeeper and an elitist. What you can’t bowl PBA as an adult then you don’t deserve to be on your lanes? Talk about tearing down bowlers
@ You literally said you want to get rid of leagues. But hey you do you man…I’m not a PBA Bowler so I don’t deserve to hear what you have to say because I’m not good enough
It’s true. League bowling is practically a different sport. I often get crushed by guys who have gotten really good at the house shot, but wouldn’t be able to handle a short pattern.
If you take away league, where would we all bowl? Something would have to replace it. I wouldn't mind a tournament each week but open bowling on a desert isn't fun.
Don’t disagree that there is a great divide between league bowling and the tournament and/or professional level. But, very few ever make it to the elite levels without first getting their feet wet in league. As a sport, we must find a way to grow league bowling. The more you grow leagues, the more you increase the overall popularity of bowling which will then lead to more advertisers / sponsors at the professional level.
I'm a league bowler. Bowling practice for me while not in league is a challenge because alleys pump up the music, have distracting TVs at the end of the damn lanes and the lights off where you can't even see the freaking boards. I CAN practice but it's muted because of that crap. And around me there are only so few alleys I can go to. In Leagues I can put to work what I've practiced on. Point is, without alleys that make conditions to up our games the less body of professional bowlers that can be out there.
I am the OPPOSITE of the League Bowlers you are referring to (we have LOTS of guys with fragile egos in my League). While I may not "like" getting crushed in Sport Pattern Tournaments, I prefer bowling them as the guys there (mostly) are not high ego guys (there are still a few), but it drives me to get better. Right now, I average roughly around 175 for Sport Patterns which doesn't feel great, but I work at it and have so much fun bowling in them and I know the more work I do and the more versatile I become, the better I'll get.
If we get rid of half the ball leagues. Who’s going to buy balls and equipment from bowl X. It’s the thought of, I need the next thing out to get better. The need to build arsenals etc. it’s the league bowlers that spend the bulk of the money to buy from you!! The pros are sponsored
@Tenpindoctors no it's not. I can score on a 33ft for example but the pattern requires urethane or like a 1 inch pin. And who the F has the money to buy a ball just to drill it with a short pin? People aren't sponsored nor get free bowling balls
@@joepic85 I'm a one hander (no thumb) that loves throwing my urethane all the time because all the reactive balls hook so much I have to throw them 4th or 5th arrow and then the ball return gets in the way at half the centers. Much easier to just throw plastic or urethane (like we all did in the 80s and 90s) up the boards and move right (right hander) when the oil carries down.
When I joined the PBA Experience league we started with 35 bowlers, the second week half of the bowlers quit, then more quit, ended up with maybe 12 bowlers. I loved it, the tough patterns made me a better bowler on the normal house shot. In the 80's and 90's through the early 2000's in the southern Chicagoland area every bowling alley was packed with league bowlers almost every day of the week. Everyone had team shirts, but so many manufacturing type jobs shut down in the last 20 years, it became very difficult to put a league bowling team together. The Men's Tuesday league is packed which I bowled for a couple of years but I got tired of all the angry bowlers who thought they were Pro's with a 210 or 220 average, fights breaking out, ball returns being kicked and way too much complaining. I love my mixed league on Friday nights, we just have fun.
I'm with you. I bowl a sport shot league every summer. They change the pattern every three weeks. It makes you a better bowler and more prepared for challenging lane conditions at tournaments. I don't agree with how JR approached getting his point across, but he is right: many bowlers don't understand the difference between house shots and pro/sport shots and so don't realize how little they really know about how to bowl "well."
my kids just started bowling in HS this year and it was great, coaches are great, they started league as well and there are great experienced bowlers helping them on league mornings as well walking around.. it's been awesome, and unlike other HS sports the coaches are not 100% pleased but are open to them doing two sports with keeping them compete on the HS team.. centers are packed coming to see HS bowlers compete. Bowling is a welcoming inclusive sport and all kids should at least try it.
@@XCRiders what’s that have to do with anything? I don’t play in a golf league yet I bought a new set of clubs… just like many bowlers don’t bowl league and buy balls
@@Tenpindoctorsthat's a logical fallacy by comparison. I bowl and golf. I don't know anyone that has their own bowling ball that has never bowled in a league. Everyone i have golfed with has their own clubs and 99 percent have never golfed in a league. Why? Well, most golf courses require you have set of clubs to play. Bowling alleys are fully equipped with house balls for the random people that are there to have fun.
@@benh580 A thing that you're missing is that golf courses are set up for varying levels of skill and all rounds in season count for handicap purposes. You don't need a league to play golf "officially". But, you do need league to bowl officially. Getting rid of league, gets rid of USBC.
@@lastuberman the original comment by Xrider was basically saying that league bowlers are who keep the bowling manufacturers in business. Tenpindoctor is off his rocker
Bowling leagues are what keeps bowling alive, not everyone is lucky enough to be born with talent to be able to bowl competitive and do well, so being able to score big games and series in league for the average Joe keeps them interested in the sport
Not specifically bowling but something that separates the pro from the average Joe and I disagree it's hard work people can learn and be taught how to bowl their whole lives and still not be good at it, some people are just natural and can do it at high levels and most people can't no matter how much training and hard work put in and I'm one of those people that just isn't very good at it minus be coached and bowling my whole life
Bowling and Golf are very similar in so many ways. Yes, you are totally correct in what you are saying. Like Bowling league where the ratio is 10-12-14 to 1 and tournaments are 1-2-4-5 to 1 ratio, the room for error is so small in tournaments and a small mistake is enhanced. Like golfing on Saturday or Sunday with the guys, where the flags are around the center of the greens and those 2-3 footers with the guys are good. Tournaments in golf the greens are faster and harder, so there is part of the ratio difference and then courses tuck the flags to the edges of the greens and all putts have to be holed and there you have it tournament golf. Last thing for those guys that do league, well most bowl there 3 games after working 8 hours with little or no practice and still avg 200+ congrats to you, or golf 18 holes and still shoot in the high 70's to low 80's with no practice, where the pros in both sports spend up to the 8 hours doing all the things to make themselves better, while the rest of us are working. I'm amazed on the dedication it takes for the drive to be a pro in both of these sports. Yes I still classify Bowling as a sport where others may classify it as a recreation.
Not all centers have a constant flow of open play bowlers. Who makes more money a bunch of teenagers or a mens league who drink buckets of beer and shots
The PBA should implement a handicap system that accounts for the correlation between a bowler's average and the difficulty of the oil pattern to address the disparity between league bowlers and professionals. League bowlers often achieve inflated averages on easy house shots, creating a misleading sense of skill equivalence with PBA pros, who consistently compete on far more challenging patterns. This misperception not only diminishes the credibility of professional achievements but also creates unrealistic expectations for league bowlers transitioning to tougher conditions. A revised system that adjusts averages based on pattern difficulty would promote fairer competition and a better understanding of skill levels across different bowling environments.
I am glad that I bowl in the center that I do. We have the most leagues we ever have. 52 lanes, filled every night of the week! .. And we really don't have many "ego" bowlers, a few, but mostly we are all a bunch of hack bowlers having a LOT of fun! .. I hope it stays this way, because I really like it. It's a TON of fun! .. Boy, your center is a LOT different than ours. Our center makes the bulk of their funds from our leagues. We spend BY FAR more money than open bowling, and we don't damage our bowling center like open bowlers do. If it were up to me, I wouldn't cater to any of the open bowling except for parties. We get a lot of low-life characters for open bowling that just abuse the center, abuse the staff and just cause a lot of problems and cost. Our center caters to mostly leagues and tournaments, and it's great that they do. This week, I am playing on 3 leagues and bowling in a tournament on Saturday. Doesn't get any better than that! .. and, FYI, our center is one of the lowest bowling centers around. We hare one of the most difficult "house shot" centers in the entire area, and I LOVE that. When I go to another center, it's easy peasy. .. Oh, on a final note, our center won't host PBA anymore .. we host PWBA and PBA50, but not PBA anymore. Why? .. because the bowlers on the PBA do nothing but complain constantly, treat the staff like shit and don't show them any courtesy for the hard work they put in for their tournaments, so we quit doing it. The PWBA, PBA50 and Collegiate are completely different (other than the collegiate leaves a terrible mess behind), they all treat the staff really well, are well behaved and at super appreciative of the had work the staff goes through to host their events. The PBA .. not so much!
I' d like to see a more "egotistical maniac" league bowler than the PBA egotistical Pete Weber! He is the definition of egotistical maniac. You can just see the entitlement written all over his face! However, that does not take away his talent in bowling, but I also would not take away that if not for leagues, some bowling centers would not be able to keep their doors open. The managers at my old house said the only reason the house was still open today was because of their leagues during covid. Take the leagues away, and there's not enough open bowlers, game ends. Moreover, I have never seen league bowlers destroy their house, or any house that they visit. But I have seen open bowlers that simply do not care how they treat the equipment or anything else.
I so agree with you..i love the guy on league 220 ave..goes to a tourney outside the house with 10 balls and shoots .... 150s ..im no big shooter just a recreational league bowler...i so agree with you 100%
In order for you to qualify to become a PBA member you must carry a 200 average or better for 36 games or more in a Sanction League. So to say that bowling leagues are not important to the wonderful game of Bowling. I believe you have misspoke JR.
I'm not a high average bowler. But I love the challenge and I enjoy sport shots. I also enjoy the traditional league setting, but understand bowling centers need to make money. I just feel that it's an extreme on both sides. League bowlers feel entitled, but the entertainment type bowling centers charge a lot while not maintaining their lanes well.
@@Tenpindoctors Everyone here makes good points. I don't agree with all of what has been said. In my local area leagues are the foundation to a successful center. One 24 lane center recently converted to string pins and all of the leagues left and now that center is only open a few hours in the evening on some weekdays and a few more hours on the weekends. The place is a ghost town. The other center that supports leagues is busy all the time with all 24 lanes in use all weekend and in the evenings after leagues conclude. A third much older center exists with a few leagues but their prices are so high that most won't bowl there during open bowling.
Unfortunately to get an established average you must bowling in a league. I'm a 200 plus average bowler but I'm not on a sanction bowling league and I'm not able to compete in tournaments
You can buy a USBC card and just put down the local organization you live closest to. The only tournaments you need a qualifying average are PBA. Even a few of them have qualifying tournaments that you can bowl your way into an event.
I actually agree with this video 100% - especially the 220 avg league bowlers who get humbled by any tournament that doesn’t have the China Oil Pattern and go through their entire arsenal complaining they can’t hit the pocket. 😂
Bowling isnt dead or dying.....it will die when Brunswick decides to pull out....because they own the equipment, the tv, the pro league, and the houses. Were will you bowl at when theres no Bowleros??? Dont say your house down the road because I know Bowlero bought that too. Its great right now....but we have no back up plan for when Brunswick goes away. Why?????
Bowling tournaments require way too much investment in equipment. You can show up and have your entire arsenal be too strong or weak or whatever. I bowled a sport shot league for a few years. Difference between scoring and not was what ball did I use. Proved it self out over the 4 week stretch before the patterned changed. 4 of my well cared for balls cracked over the summer (they were all under used, but 9+ years old). Many worked extremely well on the sport shots…I don’t want to spend the money to replace them. Thus, my arsenal has a huge hole or two in it now. League at least gives you a consistent start, then goes insane in proportion to who you are bowling with and what they are trowing etc… Until they limit equipment (or number you can bring) and flatten the patterns bowling will be pay to play, or a partial joke, as my son says about adult leagues now.
Everything has a place and a purpose. Just about every bowling center in Chicagoland is filled with leagues M-F. Zero lanes available until 10:30pm or before 5:00pm. I wonder what profitability looks li,e when you add liqueur sales into the centers revenue? I havent been a league bowler since 1990. Came back this year, and no one I have met in our league (very large) has any type of hero ego at all. Young to old all down to earth guys. None would ever pretend to be a professional. As to golf analogy, I agree with you. I love seeing pros have to play even par to win. Tough weather conditions, insane courses with insane pin placements….yes!!! However, in bowling you dont have the “visual” impact that golf has. Anyone whose played golf has shanked one, or hit a tree, or water or got a 12 on a hole……but bowling is “just a lane and a ball”……everyone here knows its much more than that, but the average person doesnt. So a lane is a lane, to most people. Anyway, good channel……keep the tips coming!
I bowl in league with a rotating sport shot that goes year round. I've noticed open bowling is actually quite pathetic. Almost every time I go to an alley. That is just a bowling alley, no other gimmick. It is insanely dead every day. You absolutely need leagues in these types of alleys.
Few things go into that.. less maintenance for strings, big help for short staffed centers. Finding a mechanic to work on free fall machines certainly isn’t easy in my area, not sure about other parts of the country… and mechanic fee of $200/hour adds up pretty damn fast
Smaller centers don't do enough business to hire a full time mechanic so a lot of time it ends up being the owner working on the machines. Most of those small centers were put in in the early 60s making the pinsetters over 60 years old and even more difficult to maintain. Unless they have a tangle, they can reset pins and change scores from the front desk and never have to go to the back.
This opinion, in my opinion, is pretty much 100% spot on. I am not a league bowler, but I consider myself to be a "bowling dad." To offset the costs of my son's bowling, I took up a side job at the local bowling alley. In this journey, I have been able to improve my personal bowling skills and observe a sizable measure of the beat of typical league bowlers. I have witnessed, and personally faced the verbal assault of, league bowlers who, frankly, are not as good as they think they are. Plunging into the abyss of bowling on actual sport patterns, I have found myself totally humbled and deeply respectful of what PBA bowlers do on TV. Throwing a 220 game in local leagues says that you are able to repeat shots on a specific line and pick up spares. It says nothing of a bowler's ability to adjust to difficult patterns (from the outset), and the quick transition that occurs when all the people bowling are sweet slinging monsters. Bowling is not dying, Just as JR states. His argument is cogent and concise. My bowling alley makes significantly more money from open bowling and Rock "N Bowl, though the leagues do help. Especially the youth leagues: they help grow the sport. Finally, I find there are very few things more joyful than sharing the the overwhelming happiness of a youth bowler throwing a strike. It builds them up, it keeps them coming back. Thank you, JR, for sharing an unpopular, though correct, point of view.
I only been bowling for six years now and I love bowling league, league bowling is the only time I get to experience fresh oil and lane courtesy, open bowling your not getting none of that.
@Tenpindoctors i did. I was commenting on one particular sentence. And then you made it seem like league bowlers are bad for the bowling alley and they are just a bunch of whiners with bad attitudes. Maybe it's where you live. Over here in Texas, we have respect for our alley.
I think we need to stop and rethink this because it all depends on the area you live in and what type of bowlers you have in your area and how many bowling centers there are. Where I live, we have one bowling center and everyone bowls including Jr. High and High school intermural leagues and it's not easy making those teams either our kids are good, really good and go on to college with bowling scholarships to the top bowling colleges around our country. They have a string of 8 state championships in a row both boys' and girls' teams. We have leagues on Tues. mornings called the Silver Streaks and we start at 11:30 am and bowling center opens at 11, I bowl in this league. We then have league nights on Mon., Wed, Thur. and Sun. they are 4 person men's, Women's and Mixed leagues. Our center has 32 lanes on Mon. it is full with a mixed league and a woman's league taking up the whole house. I sub. in the Mon. night mixed league it's not easy getting on a team in either league and there's a huge waiting list of folks hopping a team or some bowlers don't come back the next year, this rarely happens but people do move, and openings do come up every once in a while. Wed. night mixed which I bowl in as well is full with 32 teams and again it's hard getting in this league and like on Mon. there is a huge waiting list of folks hopping to get in. Thur. and Sun. leagues take up about half the house and open bowling does go on. Open bowling in our house is normally full especially during the weekends and summer lots of families come in and will throw a few games and have fun, they'll even come in on school nights once the parents have gotten home from work, our center seems to always be busy. The owners Bill and his wife just put in brand new never been used before lanes and approaches, last year they got brand new pins. The open bowling house shot is still the same, but they've made our league house shot a tougher one this year to go with the new lanes and approaches, I love the new challenge and tougher shot and have adapted well to it my book average is up to a 195 from a 182. Of course, I did buy some newer bowling balls and got rid of my old Piranha's I had the Emerald Green and the solid Teal from back in the day. As with most leagues we have our small handful of league bowlers who think they're all that and complain but every center has those types including the ones who complain that aren't league bowlers, you can't get away from it, it is what it is and it's all a part of life right? You can't satisfy everyone so you try to satisfy the majority and make it fun for everyone the best you can. For the majority of us who bowl league here we're all there to have fun, compete, socialize and of course trash talk our friends and fellow bowlers when we mess up LOL. We have just one rule when it comes to that if you can't take it don't be dealing it out. We all know and understand that league bowling is nothing like bowling on the pro-tour its much different and tougher oil patterns each n every week that the pros bowl, in the case of league bowlers the league house shot is the same each week with the exception of the sport shot leagues which we have during the summer which I bowl in, in those leagues you find out who the true bowlers are and the wanna bees LOL, my book average was actually much higher in that league than my winter/fall league go figure right LOL. Our league house shot isn't all that easy compared to some other places I've bowled league in over my life, but it's not all that difficult if and this is a BIG IF you know how to read oil patterns and what equipment is best suited for that pattern and know how to adjust as the lanes start transitioning and breaking down throughout the night of league bowling. As far as saying bowling is dying, nobody can make a general statement like that because not every city and town are the same, yes, in some places bowling is a dying sport while in other cities/towns bowling is flourishing and very popular like here where I live for instance, yet in others they're just chugging along up and down, up and down. Overall based on what I've seen in my travels throughout this country of ours I'd say bowling is doing just fine and isn't even close to dying, could it be doing better of course but then what sport can't be doing better than what it's doing right now? I'd say none so does that mean those sports are dying as well? I don't think so, but in others books I guess they'd say yes I guess it's safe to say everyone has their own opinion on the subject yes, no, maybe, sometimes, always, never? Well there's my 2 cents worth for what it's worthing coming from an average Joe nobody such as myself. You and your family have a good, safe and blessed rest of yer day and upcoming weekend. Keep up the good with your video.
This is a very good video with a lot of truth in it. I can honestly say from experience (this September was 50 years since joining my first adult league) that what is being said about certain league bowlers is absolutely spot on. I once knew a team that averaged about 1100 that bowled in 3 different houses in 3 years because of there entitlement but I can also say that, bowling in 3 leagues, 3 different houses with one being a decent money league, I'm not witnessing a lot of that right now. I know they're out there, and I over hear a few of them complaining but i really like the leagues I'm in. I joined one in 1994 and have been secretary since 05. Managed to keep it together through 07 and 8. Last year i had 16 teams and this year 20. Having said that we kind of vette the inquiries and let guys know that it's competitive but a night out kind of league and the new guys that joined are GREAT. Some hadn't bowled league in 20 years, some want to bowl with their Dad, aves go from 140 to 220...and my other league is a nooner with 16 4 man teams. A lot of fun. I also like to bowl some MDUSBC events. One scary trend though is that corporate centers are kicking their HS teams out and that is sad. I know some really good HS bowlers that want to bowl college but their schools may have to drop the sport.
lately your posts have come across as someone who has a growing dislike of bowling. watching you through the years I know this can't be the case, but one can see how someone that isn;t familiar with your channel might take what you are saying out of context. I truly enjoy your channel and at league we often talk of topics you have covered. I love league and I hope it never goes away completely. I enjoy bowling competitive with my friends and just getting out of the house on a weeknight or two, (or three). That being said, I get what you are saying I know a business needs diversity to stay afloat in this particular industry.
Totally agree. I prefer scratch over handicap since it really shows the best on challenging patterns and test your mental game more. It's funny when I see league bowlers with new bowling ball thinking they can make hook like the pros but unfortunately they don't put the work in to improve their skills in order to make the ball work for their game instead of trying to throw it like somebody else game.
I agree 100% with your league take! I used to think league bowlers were all beast mode lol and I used to be intimidated to join. I haven’t joined yet, but I’m going to now. Getting more serious into bowling recently, I noticed on average I’m on the same level of most of them lol, or better. I understand just getting into it, it’s about getting around likeminded people, learning more, the social aspect, being a part of the next level above just casual. With anything, you have to recruit new people to keep it alive. Just like sports, they have it funneled all through school with heavy promo and the highest level of the sports most of the time are heavily advertised and huge. Like you mentioned, youth leagues/high school/college. I think RUclips is a huge part of why bowling has been kept afloat as much as it has throughout its most down years, and I think RUclips is single handedly getting more people into bowling. I definitely think it’s on the rise! Most people would like to know how to bowl better, and would want their own custom ball custom fit for them. To make it even better, I think bowling centers should kind of market the pro shop and even offer coupons/advertisements of the pro shop to get your own ball with purchases. When I was casually bowling I literally didn’t even notice the pro shop. Or even give out little cards or have info some where on general tips of proper form. Those little things can push just casual people into wanting to explore the next level. A LOT of people don’t realize that this is a legit sport they’re playing. I used to be well above average at bowling as well as my friends for years and years, but we had 0 information about league or anything else. And we was using house balls cause we knew nothing about custom balls lol. I don’t think that should happen if someone frequents bowling at a bowling center. I could have been well into league with years of higher level bowling experience and coaching by now if the bowling center offered some kind of knowledge. I only know what I know now literally because of RUclips
I agree, many times my wife and I have gone to the bowling alley just to find out the league has all the lanes. We now go to a bowling alley without leagues which is further for us.
My bowling center has a Practice Your Skills league, where they use a different sports pattern every 2 weeks. My average is at least 20 -30 pins less in that league compared to my house shot league.
It's so annoying going to a bowling alley and every lane is for league until after 9:00. A good place would have at least some lanes for open bowling. I have never wanted to be on a league.
A 220 league bowler on a house pattern general drops to about 150 in a PBA pattern league. Bowlero is most responsible for leagues declining in areas where Bowlero owns 80+% of bowling centers. Bowlero centers are often the worst maintained. The are so cheap with oil that I often have to switch to a very weak or plastic ball in the 3rd game. I don't set up company event with Bowlero. I use a family owned center. Cost is a fraction of what Bowlero demands. The irony is that Bowlero owns the PBA but works to anger bowlers in favor of soaking people who want something to do while they are drinking and eating.
I really like your videos JR because you give real good how to information. Here is another take on leagues, I am a league bowler, and my guess is most of your subscriber's are as well. If i didn't bowl league, I wouldn't watch channels like yours nor keep buying all these bowling balls and equipment. So leagues, imo do help bowling in other ways besides the bowlero center profits i.e. pro shops, bowling equipment manufacturers demand, support bowling influencers, and so on.
Funny, the leagues I bowl on are up. One of them has 4 more 4 person teams than it had last year, going from 14 to 18. This isn't a senior league either, it's a lot of people in their twenties and thirties. My home center also has leagues available every day. Even Saturday morning Youth League is well attended. A lot of the decline people see has to do with the maintenance of bowling alleys. Don't do the upkeep and people will stop coming.
We have leagues every day of the week, all of them are full except the new league that just started this year. But when they have a tournament or big event going on, everyone bowls ahead to clear room for event.
I should also add that we have a lot of league bowlers who think bowling on Sport/Pro patterns is easy due to their high league average. Only to find out opposite when they put down a challenge pattern.
I'm a new bowler and I just bowl league. I like the structure and the competition while I learn to better my mechanics. I'm certainly not going to try to bowl in an open for that competition. I'd be a joke. I need the league. I'm not going to open bowling because I'm not going to have people just running up and throwing right as I'm throwing, then doing ass dances in my way and having little kids running around. So as a new bowler who is trying to take it more serious, all i have is league. For now.
I enjoy bowling. I have my up days and down days. I'm more concerned over the price that some places charge for bowling. Also not understanding how places that switched to string jacked their prices. Oh well.
I see where you're coming from, and I agree with most of this. But even easy/casual leagues have a place. You gotta start somewhere and you need to have some confidence to take your game to the next level, and usually that takes place from bowling on easier patterns and just simply going every week for practice on fresh oil. I do wish my league would put out sport patterns though.
I have to disagree with how the PBA is running there events. We see countless bowlers on the professional level get crushed simply from the sheer amount of games needed to qualify or play. I believe Brad miller had to play 60+ games alone to just get passed qualifiers. That’s way too many games and pba bowlers are constantly mentioning how bowling isn’t profitable unless you’re one of the few who cash in and make a show. Yes it’s a grind but the sport has no awareness of expanding its marketing. People still see bowling as a fun thing to do on a Friday night and laugh when you say “I bowl competitively.” I think qualifiers should cut the amount of games in half at the very least and have a standard to maintain your PBA status whether that’s tournament appearances, pro shot averages, etc. I also would like to see the PBA give anyone who does bowl competitively consistently to have the ability to at least make tournament cost more affordable. No NFL, NBA, MLB game is making money from there players paying to play
You should see my bowling alley (not mine). Theres 32 lanes, and every day is filled!! And all day long. Not only the leagues, but all the schools. I literally want to buy the place.
If i had the money to get my head stomped in, then I would. Only reason I am a league bowlers. I am down 10 pins in one league and my normal average in another league. It all balances out at some point. I agree with your statement, I am not offended as a league bowler. I will say that some of the disregard of one of the houses I bowl on has made me consider leaving not because I am bowling lower but because of the inconsistent patterns. We sign a contract every year for a certain shot, so that's my only issue is we pay for a particular service now if the house doesn't want to deal with a league then I understand but overall I've been bowling long enough to have no issue with what you said. I just like things being upfront if houses don't want leagues around, don't pretend to care.
I think this was more of an emotional rant and less of logical argument for the state of bowling as a whole. Or maybe just rage baiting. Idek at this point. A large amount of casual players is important in any sport for the future of the competitive side. The interest of the casual players in the professional side of the game stimulates the entire industry and it will die from the ground up starting with local pro shops and coach’s if leuges die out. I do not think the majority of Leuge bowlers are anything like you’ve talked about, if anything it’s a small minority.
I bowled on a 1.6 to 1 and it was too difficult for me😀. I try to only bowl tournaments with tough patterns and don't bowl league. I do practice on the house shot at a couple different centers. .
People are gonna be butt hurt over these comments…but…Truth does hurt sometimes….Balance in life is always good…”Balance Daniel san…“ I will say this …I think Summer leagues keep the lights on…🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
It does if that is what gives you a better chance to shoot high scores. I didn't bowl for 20 years. Still haven't figured out when bowlers started getting brainwashed about urethane.
I'm certain when JR bowled in leagues, (and /or if he still does, which would be hypocritical) his opinion would be different, had he heard some moron suggest to eliminate leagues
Never ever portrayed to be a good bowler, but I love being a league bowler…gets me out of the house, and at least provides for consistently oiled lanes vs. open bowling where the lanes go several days between oil being applied. But that said…there are a lot of egos out there.
I have never thought that I was better than a pro bowler whenever I bowled a great game. The only person I knew that criticized the pros was a fellow employee who wasn't a bowler but a pretty good golfer. He said that he couldn't believe he saw what was supposed to be a pro bowler bowl a 140 game on tv, and that he has gone bowling before, drank lots of beer and still managed to bowl a 200. I explained to him about the lane conditions and the number of games the pros bowl but he wasn't hearing none of it. I bowl in a senior league with some pretty good bowlers. At least they're good in my opinion. Even though we are seniors team want to win and there are many competitive matches. I don't have to bowl in a scratch league or be a touring pro to consider myself a competitor. Bowling in the 70's thru the 90's was great in my hometown. There were tournaments every week and about 15 bowling centers open. Now, there are about 6 left. I think Bowlero hasn't helped at all. Their marketing ideas suck balls! I've never seen 5 people at the foul line cheering a bowler on. That's the promo Bowlero puts out. Anyway, too much ranting. RJ, I disagree with you on everything you said.
In my area leagues are far more profitable than open bowling
@@jamesk5172 that’s very VERY rare but not impossible
Can bowling manufacturers survive without league? I've worked a bit in pro shops i doubt we survive without leagues. Coaches too most coaches survive off senior bowlers
Good point. Most casual bowlers I see going in a pro shop will look for the cheapest hooking ball right above the plastic line that also looks cool. I see it all the time when I’m getting new thumb inserts or having something modified.
Don't forget- all those links above to buy stuff really aren't meant for people holding PBA cards.
Mmy opinion if booking is dying kinda depends if u are a HAVE or a HAVE NOT. Centers are pricing out the common folk looking for fun, and with equipment prices through the roof, and with more and more centers going to string pins, I think bowling in general will continue to decline.
As bowlero buys up most independent centers, their model of jacking prices for open play and leagues is absolutely stupid. They nickel and dime the centers they own and don't fix anything! They will run these centers into the ground and destroy the product. Bowling will suffer tremendously at the hands of bowlero. My bowlero at Fredericksburg in Virginia has needed a new oil machine for 4 years. It can't put out any pattern correctly or with any consistency. The previous mechanic knowingly sabotaged/destroyed the machine and still bowlero won't replace it. In a 50 lane center we have at least 10 lanes that the racks are so messed up you can't hardly strike at all. This company is a disgrace!
Maybe whoever owns Bowlero has a grudge on bowling if they take over and run places in the ground? Becsuse that's just crazy
@StephRenee812 the guy who owns bowlero doesn't think it's a serious sport, he thinks of it as a recreational sport. That's why open play is more of their priority than league bowlers.
I know the whole Bowlero story....UGH
My center wouldn't even be open if not for leagues. 6 nights a week.. 4 days with 2+ leagues. Some of the biggest leagues in So Cal.
Also, y'all can hate bowlero all you want. But, the fact is there are 200+ centers across the U.S. that are only still open because bowlero saved them.
Talking trash about most of your audience doesn't seem like a smart move.
@free2befree you don't know what you're talking about. Bowlero bought 10 or so centers in my area that were previously owned by bowl america. Every single one of them got worse and more expensive! The amf and bowlero in my area already sucked for several years, and have only gotten worse! If you want to speak for yourself and your experience, that's fine, but this company is garbage! I've seen too much to defend these fu@kers! Maybe your area has a district manager who isn't a peice of sh!t. Idk.. I know I won't have you tell me I'm wrong when you don't know what most of us already do. I'd say shut up and consider yourself lucky that you aren't dealing with bull sh!t a lot of us are. If we want anything to improve, we need to speak up! So, defend the corporate fu@ks if you want.. but you don't know shit!
I’m a disabled veteran that bowls on a Senior league . My bowling arm is fused and I’ll never have a 250 average. I bowl with a 93 year old lady and high scores or who acts like they have the biggest tool doesn’t come up in our league. We are a group of good friends that don’t take ourselves too seriously. Bye
I know JR is trying not to lump all league bowlers together, but it comes off that way. I think most of us 200-230 average bowlers know our limitations. Every league has that guy or two, but everyone else knows whats up. Also without league bowlers I don't think the bowling companies out there would survive long term and that WOULD be bad for bowling. JR is very matter of fact, but not everything is black or white.
I agree. I also find the "Competitive bowlers" are the ones that complain the most in leagues. At least the leagues that I am in.
@@ChrisNyenhuis it really doesn’t come off that way because I specifically make sure to not do that if you watch all the way through
@@Tenpindoctors I watched it fully the first time and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Keep it up.
Also bowling isn't dying. It's just at a crossroads. IMO, there is room for everyone.
I bowled league with PBA and high level tournament guys in it. It was such a chill league. We all knew league was just for giggles for these guys and it permeated to everyone. I'm in a handicap league now and people take it more seriously.
Our league went from eight teams last year to four teams this year.
It's my wife and I's day to get away from our kids. Plus it's good for some socialization.
Edit: there's 2 teams in our league that they will put different patterns down for. Another guy and I asked for different lane patterns. So when both our teams face off, we get completely different patterns on adjacent lanes.
Show me a bowling alley with consistant full house of open play. Durjng the week no one is there. Its ALL leagues. It keeps the lights on
You do realize that most sales of bowling equipment come from league bowlers? Try keeping a house or pro shop open without them. I've been bowling for 40+ years on leagues, and I can tell you with certainty you have the ego problem, not us! You're just grasping at straws to try to save your ass for biting the hand that feeds you!
This is what I hear, but you ain't saying it... The "Good" bowlers don't like bowling against bowlers who get pins, it makes the playing field (more) level (insert ego). You can beat them on "challenge" patterns because you are "good" bowlers (insert ego). Realistically the scratch bowlers can't afford to have their own league, and great bowlers can't afford to make a living on tour.... Cracking on any bowlers or "bowlers" (as you say) is not good for bowling! Lets all be better, and have fun, ffs!
@@kylemc8851 sounds like you’re offended and putting words in my mouth
@ of course is sounds like that to you…
@@kylemc8851 let me rephrase that. You clearly are offended and you ARE putting words in my mouth
I typically agree you....but not in this case. Many people, just like me, bowl for the fun...really never will be a 'pro' bowling.
@@jimlake22 what’s that have to do with what I said and the topic of whether bowling is dying?
Don't really agree with patronizing an entire demographic of participation in bowling, which is kind of a weird cringy vibe.
But you're not wrong.
In our area there was a brand new house built on the assumption there was going to be no leagues. They were going to survive on open bowling and church groups. Was not long before they changed their minds because open bowling and groups were not paying the bills. So they started leagues Monday-Friday with youth on Saturday so they would have steady income instead of waiting for someone to come bowling on a whim.
I think in order to be certified all house shots should be certified USBC patterns.
Yes league bowlers can be a pain but some of these bowlers are bowling 2 to 3 nights a week plus buying bowling balls every year and paying $200+ for each one plus maybe drilling.
We have no sport shot leagues because nobody will come out. The higher average bowlers will not even bowl scratch leagues or tournaments on house shots. Which I guess is one point you were making.
Bowling in our area is on life support. Clearly not what it was in the 80’s and 90’s when we had double leagues every night except Sunday.
Like mine, this is just one persons opinion. Feels more like click bait than actual help, yes I clicked on it.
Just my 2 cents.
If bowling center feel that leagues are a hinderance to their centers, then why do they agree to allow leagues? Leagues are great to bring a community together too have fun and learn more about the sport of bowling. Individuals will be individuals including arrogant cocky PBA bowlers!!!!
Open bowlers are reckless, trying to damage equipment. I see it every time I go when I'm not bowling league. The worst of them are the ADULTS. I work second shift, if there's no Sunday leagues then why bother bowling? Team atmosphere keeps it going. Not sure how you can sell training tools and trash league bowlers at the same time. These people who come and throw 2+ balls down the lane at the rake at once are not buying shit from you
This video is killing Bowling 😂
@@XCRiders nope it’s getting some people to recognize the real problems
There is only leagues in most areas in upstate ny. Proprietor at my center prefers it, people off the street are rough on everything league bowlers know the rules
I would love to bowl in a league that changed the shot from week to week. I'm all up for a challenge. Modified house shot, sport patterns, PBA patterns etc. I would love to learn on those and we even have a center on Sunday's that's does a thing called sport shot Sunday's to where they reserve like 10 to 12 lanes and put a sport shot out on it for open play. Granted u wanna get there early so u can learn on the fresh but I thought it was a great thing when they started doin this. Also I would like to ask ya tho. What do u do with the guys that bowl on leagues Thursdays and Fridays cuz they enjoy the sport and that's the only nights that they have to make time to bowl, what would u suggest they do?
Bowling has been replaced by funnel ball a long time ago. Like a game I discovered playing with golf balls in my bath tub My technique is so good I never miss the drain. Unlike my cat and a gecko on my wall, I know how to get the ball in the tub and keep score. I think that gives me GOAT status and immuned to haters
Wow you sound like a gatekeeper and an elitist. What you can’t bowl PBA as an adult then you don’t deserve to be on your lanes? Talk about tearing down bowlers
@@guyclaudy9318 awful interpretation of what was said but ok
@ You literally said you want to get rid of leagues. But hey you do you man…I’m not a PBA Bowler so I don’t deserve to hear what you have to say because I’m not good enough
It’s true. League bowling is practically a different sport. I often get crushed by guys who have gotten really good at the house shot, but wouldn’t be able to handle a short pattern.
If you take away league, where would we all bowl? Something would have to replace it. I wouldn't mind a tournament each week but open bowling on a desert isn't fun.
Don’t disagree that there is a great divide between league bowling and the tournament and/or professional level. But, very few ever make it to the elite levels without first getting their feet wet in league. As a sport, we must find a way to grow league bowling. The more you grow leagues, the more you increase the overall popularity of bowling which will then lead to more advertisers / sponsors at the professional level.
I'm a league bowler. Bowling practice for me while not in league is a challenge because alleys pump up the music, have distracting TVs at the end of the damn lanes and the lights off where you can't even see the freaking boards. I CAN practice but it's muted because of that crap. And around me there are only so few alleys I can go to. In Leagues I can put to work what I've practiced on. Point is, without alleys that make conditions to up our games the less body of professional bowlers that can be out there.
I am the OPPOSITE of the League Bowlers you are referring to (we have LOTS of guys with fragile egos in my League). While I may not "like" getting crushed in Sport Pattern Tournaments, I prefer bowling them as the guys there (mostly) are not high ego guys (there are still a few), but it drives me to get better. Right now, I average roughly around 175 for Sport Patterns which doesn't feel great, but I work at it and have so much fun bowling in them and I know the more work I do and the more versatile I become, the better I'll get.
If we get rid of half the ball leagues. Who’s going to buy balls and equipment from bowl X. It’s the thought of, I need the next thing out to get better. The need to build arsenals etc. it’s the league bowlers that spend the bulk of the money to buy from you!! The pros are sponsored
If leauge bowlers are bad for the centers then so are tournament bowlers. Also if there arr no leauge bowlers who is gonna watch the pba?
Lets be real. The competitive side is ass. 2 handers throwing urethane. So much fun!
@@joepic85 terrible take
@Tenpindoctors no it's not. I can score on a 33ft for example but the pattern requires urethane or like a 1 inch pin. And who the F has the money to buy a ball just to drill it with a short pin? People aren't sponsored nor get free bowling balls
@@joepic85 I'm a one hander (no thumb) that loves throwing my urethane all the time because all the reactive balls hook so much I have to throw them 4th or 5th arrow and then the ball return gets in the way at half the centers. Much easier to just throw plastic or urethane (like we all did in the 80s and 90s) up the boards and move right (right hander) when the oil carries down.
Quite a bit to unpack here.. but this ain’t it bud
When I joined the PBA Experience league we started with 35 bowlers, the second week half of the bowlers quit, then more quit, ended up with maybe 12 bowlers. I loved it, the tough patterns made me a better bowler on the normal house shot. In the 80's and 90's through the early 2000's in the southern Chicagoland area every bowling alley was packed with league bowlers almost every day of the week. Everyone had team shirts, but so many manufacturing type jobs shut down in the last 20 years, it became very difficult to put a league bowling team together. The Men's Tuesday league is packed which I bowled for a couple of years but I got tired of all the angry bowlers who thought they were Pro's with a 210 or 220 average, fights breaking out, ball returns being kicked and way too much complaining. I love my mixed league on Friday nights, we just have fun.
I'm with you. I bowl a sport shot league every summer. They change the pattern every three weeks. It makes you a better bowler and more prepared for challenging lane conditions at tournaments. I don't agree with how JR approached getting his point across, but he is right: many bowlers don't understand the difference between house shots and pro/sport shots and so don't realize how little they really know about how to bowl "well."
my kids just started bowling in HS this year and it was great, coaches are great, they started league as well and there are great experienced bowlers helping them on league mornings as well walking around.. it's been awesome, and unlike other HS sports the coaches are not 100% pleased but are open to them doing two sports with keeping them compete on the HS team.. centers are packed coming to see HS bowlers compete. Bowling is a welcoming inclusive sport and all kids should at least try it.
Who purchases dozens of bowling balls?
League bowlers do!
@@XCRiders what’s that have to do with anything? I don’t play in a golf league yet I bought a new set of clubs… just like many bowlers don’t bowl league and buy balls
@@Tenpindoctorsthat's a logical fallacy by comparison. I bowl and golf. I don't know anyone that has their own bowling ball that has never bowled in a league.
Everyone i have golfed with has their own clubs and 99 percent have never golfed in a league. Why?
Well, most golf courses require you have set of clubs to play. Bowling alleys are fully equipped with house balls for the random people that are there to have fun.
@@benh580 A thing that you're missing is that golf courses are set up for varying levels of skill and all rounds in season count for handicap purposes. You don't need a league to play golf "officially". But, you do need league to bowl officially. Getting rid of league, gets rid of USBC.
@lastuberman idk if you meant to tag me, but it seems like we're in agreement
@@lastuberman the original comment by Xrider was basically saying that league bowlers are who keep the bowling manufacturers in business. Tenpindoctor is off his rocker
This isn’t true across the board. One of the centers I bowl in would close if not for their leagues.
Bowling leagues are what keeps bowling alive, not everyone is lucky enough to be born with talent to be able to bowl competitive and do well, so being able to score big games and series in league for the average Joe keeps them interested in the sport
@@WARHERO388 nobody is born with bowling talent…
Not specifically bowling but something that separates the pro from the average Joe and I disagree it's hard work people can learn and be taught how to bowl their whole lives and still not be good at it, some people are just natural and can do it at high levels and most people can't no matter how much training and hard work put in and I'm one of those people that just isn't very good at it minus be coached and bowling my whole life
Bowling and Golf are very similar in so many ways. Yes, you are totally correct in what you are saying. Like Bowling league where the ratio is 10-12-14 to 1 and tournaments are 1-2-4-5 to 1 ratio, the room for error is so small in tournaments and a small mistake is enhanced. Like golfing on Saturday or Sunday with the guys, where the flags are around the center of the greens and those 2-3 footers with the guys are good. Tournaments in golf the greens are faster and harder, so there is part of the ratio difference and then courses tuck the flags to the edges of the greens and all putts have to be holed and there you have it tournament golf. Last thing for those guys that do league, well most bowl there 3 games after working 8 hours with little or no practice and still avg 200+ congrats to you, or golf 18 holes and still shoot in the high 70's to low 80's with no practice, where the pros in both sports spend up to the 8 hours doing all the things to make themselves better, while the rest of us are working. I'm amazed on the dedication it takes for the drive to be a pro in both of these sports. Yes I still classify Bowling as a sport where others may classify it as a recreation.
Not all centers have a constant flow of open play bowlers. Who makes more money a bunch of teenagers or a mens league who drink buckets of beer and shots
The PBA should implement a handicap system that accounts for the correlation between a bowler's average and the difficulty of the oil pattern to address the disparity between league bowlers and professionals. League bowlers often achieve inflated averages on easy house shots, creating a misleading sense of skill equivalence with PBA pros, who consistently compete on far more challenging patterns. This misperception not only diminishes the credibility of professional achievements but also creates unrealistic expectations for league bowlers transitioning to tougher conditions. A revised system that adjusts averages based on pattern difficulty would promote fairer competition and a better understanding of skill levels across different bowling environments.
We enjoy getting and bowling on league nights.
I am glad that I bowl in the center that I do. We have the most leagues we ever have. 52 lanes, filled every night of the week! .. And we really don't have many "ego" bowlers, a few, but mostly we are all a bunch of hack bowlers having a LOT of fun! .. I hope it stays this way, because I really like it. It's a TON of fun! .. Boy, your center is a LOT different than ours. Our center makes the bulk of their funds from our leagues. We spend BY FAR more money than open bowling, and we don't damage our bowling center like open bowlers do. If it were up to me, I wouldn't cater to any of the open bowling except for parties. We get a lot of low-life characters for open bowling that just abuse the center, abuse the staff and just cause a lot of problems and cost. Our center caters to mostly leagues and tournaments, and it's great that they do. This week, I am playing on 3 leagues and bowling in a tournament on Saturday. Doesn't get any better than that! .. and, FYI, our center is one of the lowest bowling centers around. We hare one of the most difficult "house shot" centers in the entire area, and I LOVE that. When I go to another center, it's easy peasy. .. Oh, on a final note, our center won't host PBA anymore .. we host PWBA and PBA50, but not PBA anymore. Why? .. because the bowlers on the PBA do nothing but complain constantly, treat the staff like shit and don't show them any courtesy for the hard work they put in for their tournaments, so we quit doing it. The PWBA, PBA50 and Collegiate are completely different (other than the collegiate leaves a terrible mess behind), they all treat the staff really well, are well behaved and at super appreciative of the had work the staff goes through to host their events. The PBA .. not so much!
So string pins are cool and league bowlers stink. Want to talk about somebody's ego that is so big...
@@bryzink try watching and comprehending the topic rather than lashing out like a child because your feelings got hurt
I' d like to see a more "egotistical maniac" league bowler than the PBA egotistical Pete Weber! He is the definition of egotistical maniac. You can just see the entitlement written all over his face! However, that does not take away his talent in bowling, but I also would not take away that if not for leagues, some bowling centers would not be able to keep their doors open. The managers at my old house said the only reason the house was still open today was because of their leagues during covid. Take the leagues away, and there's not enough open bowlers, game ends. Moreover, I have never seen league bowlers destroy their house, or any house that they visit. But I have seen open bowlers that simply do not care how they treat the equipment or anything else.
League bowlers understand how tough the lane conditions are for pros. We’re not stupid.
I so agree with you..i love the guy on league 220 ave..goes to a tourney outside the house with 10 balls and shoots
.... 150s ..im no big shooter just a recreational league bowler...i so agree with you 100%
In order for you to qualify to become a PBA member you must carry a 200 average or better for 36 games or more in a Sanction League. So to say that bowling leagues are not important to the wonderful game of Bowling. I believe you have misspoke JR.
I'm not a high average bowler. But I love the challenge and I enjoy sport shots. I also enjoy the traditional league setting, but understand bowling centers need to make money. I just feel that it's an extreme on both sides. League bowlers feel entitled, but the entertainment type bowling centers charge a lot while not maintaining their lanes well.
JR, you are about as wrong as you can be when you say bowling can survive without leagues. Bowling would be dead without league.
@@Wagster-xs4st false. But you also didn’t listen all the way through
@@Tenpindoctors Everyone here makes good points. I don't agree with all of what has been said. In my local area leagues are the foundation to a successful center. One 24 lane center recently converted to string pins and all of the leagues left and now that center is only open a few hours in the evening on some weekdays and a few more hours on the weekends. The place is a ghost town. The other center that supports leagues is busy all the time with all 24 lanes in use all weekend and in the evenings after leagues conclude. A third much older center exists with a few leagues but their prices are so high that most won't bowl there during open bowling.
Unfortunately to get an established average you must bowling in a league. I'm a 200 plus average bowler but I'm not on a sanction bowling league and I'm not able to compete in tournaments
You can buy a USBC card and just put down the local organization you live closest to. The only tournaments you need a qualifying average are PBA. Even a few of them have qualifying tournaments that you can bowl your way into an event.
Seriously!!! Why am I the only one who sees that the entirety of our sport, is owned by 1 company????
I actually agree with this video 100% - especially the 220 avg league bowlers who get humbled by any tournament that doesn’t have the China Oil Pattern and go through their entire arsenal complaining they can’t hit the pocket. 😂
Idk… I’m just a bowling addict I’ll try anything challenging,Just happy knocking down pins
This was a crappy post buddy
Bowling has turned into 2 seperate sports
Bowling isnt dead or dying.....it will die when Brunswick decides to pull out....because they own the equipment, the tv, the pro league, and the houses. Were will you bowl at when theres no Bowleros??? Dont say your house down the road because I know Bowlero bought that too. Its great right now....but we have no back up plan for when Brunswick goes away. Why?????
Bowlero owns Brunswick. Brunswick does not own Bowlero.
@ripvanrevs either way still spells the end of bowling once they give up.
Bowling tournaments require way too much investment in equipment. You can show up and have your entire arsenal be too strong or weak or whatever.
I bowled a sport shot league for a few years. Difference between scoring and not was what ball did I use. Proved it self out over the 4 week stretch before the patterned changed.
4 of my well cared for balls cracked over the summer (they were all under used, but 9+ years old). Many worked extremely well on the sport shots…I don’t want to spend the money to replace them. Thus, my arsenal has a huge hole or two in it now. League at least gives you a consistent start, then goes insane in proportion to who you are bowling with and what they are trowing etc…
Until they limit equipment (or number you can bring) and flatten the patterns bowling will be pay to play, or a partial joke, as my son says about adult leagues now.
Everything has a place and a purpose. Just about every bowling center in Chicagoland is filled with leagues M-F. Zero lanes available until 10:30pm or before 5:00pm.
I wonder what profitability looks li,e when you add liqueur sales into the centers revenue?
I havent been a league bowler since 1990. Came back this year, and no one I have met in our league (very large) has any type of hero ego at all. Young to old all down to earth guys. None would ever pretend to be a professional.
As to golf analogy, I agree with you. I love seeing pros have to play even par to win. Tough weather conditions, insane courses with insane pin placements….yes!!! However, in bowling you dont have the “visual” impact that golf has. Anyone whose played golf has shanked one, or hit a tree, or water or got a 12 on a hole……but bowling is “just a lane and a ball”……everyone here knows its much more than that, but the average person doesnt. So a lane is a lane, to most people.
Anyway, good channel……keep the tips coming!
Not even worth responding to. You probably just made 10 more bowlers quit.
@@2AChef-n-BBQ awful take
I bowl in league with a rotating sport shot that goes year round. I've noticed open bowling is actually quite pathetic. Almost every time I go to an alley. That is just a bowling alley, no other gimmick. It is insanely dead every day. You absolutely need leagues in these types of alleys.
String pins is an indication that they’re not making enough to pay for proper machines. What exactly is the reason? Not sure
Few things go into that.. less maintenance for strings, big help for short staffed centers. Finding a mechanic to work on free fall machines certainly isn’t easy in my area, not sure about other parts of the country… and mechanic fee of $200/hour adds up pretty damn fast
Smaller centers don't do enough business to hire a full time mechanic so a lot of time it ends up being the owner working on the machines. Most of those small centers were put in in the early 60s making the pinsetters over 60 years old and even more difficult to maintain. Unless they have a tangle, they can reset pins and change scores from the front desk and never have to go to the back.
This opinion, in my opinion, is pretty much 100% spot on. I am not a league bowler, but I consider myself to be a "bowling dad." To offset the costs of my son's bowling, I took up a side job at the local bowling alley. In this journey, I have been able to improve my personal bowling skills and observe a sizable measure of the beat of typical league bowlers. I have witnessed, and personally faced the verbal assault of, league bowlers who, frankly, are not as good as they think they are.
Plunging into the abyss of bowling on actual sport patterns, I have found myself totally humbled and deeply respectful of what PBA bowlers do on TV. Throwing a 220 game in local leagues says that you are able to repeat shots on a specific line and pick up spares. It says nothing of a bowler's ability to adjust to difficult patterns (from the outset), and the quick transition that occurs when all the people bowling are sweet slinging monsters.
Bowling is not dying, Just as JR states. His argument is cogent and concise. My bowling alley makes significantly more money from open bowling and Rock "N Bowl, though the leagues do help. Especially the youth leagues: they help grow the sport. Finally, I find there are very few things more joyful than sharing the the overwhelming happiness of a youth bowler throwing a strike. It builds them up, it keeps them coming back.
Thank you, JR, for sharing an unpopular, though correct, point of view.
You lost me when you said youre glad that league bowling is dying. 99 percent of your viewers are league bowlers.
@@benh580 you didn’t listen to what I said through the video. You must have stopped watching. Get out of your feelings and watch more
You just insanely twisted the words of this video lol
Where did you get the 99% information?
I only been bowling for six years now and I love bowling league, league bowling is the only time I get to experience fresh oil and lane courtesy, open bowling your not getting none of that.
@Tenpindoctors i did. I was commenting on one particular sentence. And then you made it seem like league bowlers are bad for the bowling alley and they are just a bunch of whiners with bad attitudes. Maybe it's where you live. Over here in Texas, we have respect for our alley.
I think we need to stop and rethink this because it all depends on the area you live in and what type of bowlers you have in your area and how many bowling centers there are. Where I live, we have one bowling center and everyone bowls including Jr. High and High school intermural leagues and it's not easy making those teams either our kids are good, really good and go on to college with bowling scholarships to the top bowling colleges around our country. They have a string of 8 state championships in a row both boys' and girls' teams. We have leagues on Tues. mornings called the Silver Streaks and we start at 11:30 am and bowling center opens at 11, I bowl in this league. We then have league nights on Mon., Wed, Thur. and Sun. they are 4 person men's, Women's and Mixed leagues. Our center has 32 lanes on Mon. it is full with a mixed league and a woman's league taking up the whole house. I sub. in the Mon. night mixed league it's not easy getting on a team in either league and there's a huge waiting list of folks hopping a team or some bowlers don't come back the next year, this rarely happens but people do move, and openings do come up every once in a while. Wed. night mixed which I bowl in as well is full with 32 teams and again it's hard getting in this league and like on Mon. there is a huge waiting list of folks hopping to get in. Thur. and Sun. leagues take up about half the house and open bowling does go on. Open bowling in our house is normally full especially during the weekends and summer lots of families come in and will throw a few games and have fun, they'll even come in on school nights once the parents have gotten home from work, our center seems to always be busy. The owners Bill and his wife just put in brand new never been used before lanes and approaches, last year they got brand new pins. The open bowling house shot is still the same, but they've made our league house shot a tougher one this year to go with the new lanes and approaches, I love the new challenge and tougher shot and have adapted well to it my book average is up to a 195 from a 182. Of course, I did buy some newer bowling balls and got rid of my old Piranha's I had the Emerald Green and the solid Teal from back in the day.
As with most leagues we have our small handful of league bowlers who think they're all that and complain but every center has those types including the ones who complain that aren't league bowlers, you can't get away from it, it is what it is and it's all a part of life right? You can't satisfy everyone so you try to satisfy the majority and make it fun for everyone the best you can. For the majority of us who bowl league here we're all there to have fun, compete, socialize and of course trash talk our friends and fellow bowlers when we mess up LOL. We have just one rule when it comes to that if you can't take it don't be dealing it out. We all know and understand that league bowling is nothing like bowling on the pro-tour its much different and tougher oil patterns each n every week that the pros bowl, in the case of league bowlers the league house shot is the same each week with the exception of the sport shot leagues which we have during the summer which I bowl in, in those leagues you find out who the true bowlers are and the wanna bees LOL, my book average was actually much higher in that league than my winter/fall league go figure right LOL. Our league house shot isn't all that easy compared to some other places I've bowled league in over my life, but it's not all that difficult if and this is a BIG IF you know how to read oil patterns and what equipment is best suited for that pattern and know how to adjust as the lanes start transitioning and breaking down throughout the night of league bowling.
As far as saying bowling is dying, nobody can make a general statement like that because not every city and town are the same, yes, in some places bowling is a dying sport while in other cities/towns bowling is flourishing and very popular like here where I live for instance, yet in others they're just chugging along up and down, up and down. Overall based on what I've seen in my travels throughout this country of ours I'd say bowling is doing just fine and isn't even close to dying, could it be doing better of course but then what sport can't be doing better than what it's doing right now? I'd say none so does that mean those sports are dying as well? I don't think so, but in others books I guess they'd say yes I guess it's safe to say everyone has their own opinion on the subject yes, no, maybe, sometimes, always, never? Well there's my 2 cents worth for what it's worthing coming from an average Joe nobody such as myself. You and your family have a good, safe and blessed rest of yer day and upcoming weekend. Keep up the good with your video.
This is a very good video with a lot of truth in it.
I can honestly say from experience (this September was 50 years since joining my first adult league) that what is being said about certain league bowlers is absolutely spot on. I once knew a team that averaged about 1100 that bowled in 3 different houses in 3 years because of there entitlement but I can also say that, bowling in 3 leagues, 3 different houses with one being a decent money league, I'm not witnessing a lot of that right now. I know they're out there, and I over hear a few of them complaining but i really like the leagues I'm in. I joined one in 1994 and have been secretary since 05. Managed to keep it together through 07 and 8. Last year i had 16 teams and this year 20. Having said that we kind of vette the inquiries and let guys know that it's competitive but a night out kind of league and the new guys that joined are GREAT. Some hadn't bowled league in 20 years, some want to bowl with their Dad, aves go from 140 to 220...and my other league is a nooner with 16 4 man teams. A lot of fun. I also like to bowl some MDUSBC events.
One scary trend though is that corporate centers are kicking their HS teams out and that is sad. I know some really good HS bowlers that want to bowl college but their schools may have to drop the sport.
And I also LOVE the talent on the PBA tour.
lately your posts have come across as someone who has a growing dislike of bowling. watching you through the years I know this can't be the case, but one can see how someone that isn;t familiar with your channel might take what you are saying out of context. I truly enjoy your channel and at league we often talk of topics you have covered. I love league and I hope it never goes away completely. I enjoy bowling competitive with my friends and just getting out of the house on a weeknight or two, (or three). That being said, I get what you are saying I know a business needs diversity to stay afloat in this particular industry.
Totally agree. I prefer scratch over handicap since it really shows the best on challenging patterns and test your mental game more. It's funny when I see league bowlers with new bowling ball thinking they can make hook like the pros but unfortunately they don't put the work in to improve their skills in order to make the ball work for their game instead of trying to throw it like somebody else game.
I agree 100% with your league take! I used to think league bowlers were all beast mode lol and I used to be intimidated to join. I haven’t joined yet, but I’m going to now. Getting more serious into bowling recently, I noticed on average I’m on the same level of most of them lol, or better. I understand just getting into it, it’s about getting around likeminded people, learning more, the social aspect, being a part of the next level above just casual.
With anything, you have to recruit new people to keep it alive. Just like sports, they have it funneled all through school with heavy promo and the highest level of the sports most of the time are heavily advertised and huge. Like you mentioned, youth leagues/high school/college. I think RUclips is a huge part of why bowling has been kept afloat as much as it has throughout its most down years, and I think RUclips is single handedly getting more people into bowling. I definitely think it’s on the rise!
Most people would like to know how to bowl better, and would want their own custom ball custom fit for them. To make it even better, I think bowling centers should kind of market the pro shop and even offer coupons/advertisements of the pro shop to get your own ball with purchases. When I was casually bowling I literally didn’t even notice the pro shop. Or even give out little cards or have info some where on general tips of proper form. Those little things can push just casual people into wanting to explore the next level. A LOT of people don’t realize that this is a legit sport they’re playing. I used to be well above average at bowling as well as my friends for years and years, but we had 0 information about league or anything else. And we was using house balls cause we knew nothing about custom balls lol. I don’t think that should happen if someone frequents bowling at a bowling center. I could have been well into league with years of higher level bowling experience and coaching by now if the bowling center offered some kind of knowledge.
I only know what I know now literally because of RUclips
League issues in my house
1 the league coordinator doesn't do his job
2 our winter leagues are to damn long
3 owners who are out of touch with society
I agree, many times my wife and I have gone to the bowling alley just to find out the league has all the lanes. We now go to a bowling alley without leagues which is further for us.
My bowling center has a Practice Your Skills league, where they use a different sports pattern every 2 weeks.
My average is at least 20 -30 pins less in that league compared to my house shot league.
I couldn’t possibly love this message anymore than I already do.
It's so annoying going to a bowling alley and every lane is for league until after 9:00. A good place would have at least some lanes for open bowling. I have never wanted to be on a league.
A 220 league bowler on a house pattern general drops to about 150 in a PBA pattern league.
Bowlero is most responsible for leagues declining in areas where Bowlero owns 80+% of bowling centers. Bowlero centers are often the worst maintained. The are so cheap with oil that I often have to switch to a very weak or plastic ball in the 3rd game.
I don't set up company event with Bowlero. I use a family owned center. Cost is a fraction of what Bowlero demands.
The irony is that Bowlero owns the PBA but works to anger bowlers in favor of soaking people who want something to do while they are drinking and eating.
I really like your videos JR because you give real good how to information. Here is another take on leagues, I am a league bowler, and my guess is most of your subscriber's are as well. If i didn't bowl league, I wouldn't watch channels like yours nor keep buying all these bowling balls and equipment. So leagues, imo do help bowling in other ways besides the bowlero center profits i.e. pro shops, bowling equipment manufacturers demand, support bowling influencers, and so on.
Funny, the leagues I bowl on are up. One of them has 4 more 4 person teams than it had last year, going from 14 to 18. This isn't a senior league either, it's a lot of people in their twenties and thirties. My home center also has leagues available every day. Even Saturday morning Youth League is well attended. A lot of the decline people see has to do with the maintenance of bowling alleys. Don't do the upkeep and people will stop coming.
We have leagues every day of the week, all of them are full except the new league that just started this year. But when they have a tournament or big event going on, everyone bowls ahead to clear room for event.
I should also add that we have a lot of league bowlers who think bowling on Sport/Pro patterns is easy due to their high league average. Only to find out opposite when they put down a challenge pattern.
I'm a new bowler and I just bowl league. I like the structure and the competition while I learn to better my mechanics.
I'm certainly not going to try to bowl in an open for that competition. I'd be a joke.
I need the league.
I'm not going to open bowling because I'm not going to have people just running up and throwing right as I'm throwing, then doing ass dances in my way and having little kids running around.
So as a new bowler who is trying to take it more serious, all i have is league. For now.
I enjoy bowling. I have my up days and down days. I'm more concerned over the price that some places charge for bowling. Also not understanding how places that switched to string jacked their prices. Oh well.
I see where you're coming from, and I agree with most of this. But even easy/casual leagues have a place. You gotta start somewhere and you need to have some confidence to take your game to the next level, and usually that takes place from bowling on easier patterns and just simply going every week for practice on fresh oil. I do wish my league would put out sport patterns though.
I have to disagree with how the PBA is running there events. We see countless bowlers on the professional level get crushed simply from the sheer amount of games needed to qualify or play. I believe Brad miller had to play 60+ games alone to just get passed qualifiers. That’s way too many games and pba bowlers are constantly mentioning how bowling isn’t profitable unless you’re one of the few who cash in and make a show. Yes it’s a grind but the sport has no awareness of expanding its marketing. People still see bowling as a fun thing to do on a Friday night and laugh when you say “I bowl competitively.” I think qualifiers should cut the amount of games in half at the very least and have a standard to maintain your PBA status whether that’s tournament appearances, pro shot averages, etc. I also would like to see the PBA give anyone who does bowl competitively consistently to have the ability to at least make tournament cost more affordable. No NFL, NBA, MLB game is making money from there players paying to play
Jr must be a Harris supporter
You should see my bowling alley (not mine). Theres 32 lanes, and every day is filled!! And all day long. Not only the leagues, but all the schools. I literally want to buy the place.
Schools adding bowling in the last 20 years has been tremendous for the sport.
Bowling has so many variables than most sports.
If i had the money to get my head stomped in, then I would. Only reason I am a league bowlers. I am down 10 pins in one league and my normal average in another league. It all balances out at some point. I agree with your statement, I am not offended as a league bowler. I will say that some of the disregard of one of the houses I bowl on has made me consider leaving not because I am bowling lower but because of the inconsistent patterns. We sign a contract every year for a certain shot, so that's my only issue is we pay for a particular service now if the house doesn't want to deal with a league then I understand but overall I've been bowling long enough to have no issue with what you said. I just like things being upfront if houses don't want leagues around, don't pretend to care.
Bowling is too expensive. It’s a sport for the pros. Let it go. Good!
he trying to say he at a different level than league bowlers lol and league bowlers are trash 🤣
Hey JR …can you give your take on the status of the PBA Tour
We are all aware pro bowlers are about 240ish on house
Isnt intentionally bowling in a tougher center in a wsy sandbagging for handicap tournaments
I think this was more of an emotional rant and less of logical argument for the state of bowling as a whole. Or maybe just rage baiting. Idek at this point. A large amount of casual players is important in any sport for the future of the competitive side. The interest of the casual players in the professional side of the game stimulates the entire industry and it will die from the ground up starting with local pro shops and coach’s if leuges die out. I do not think the majority of Leuge bowlers are anything like you’ve talked about, if anything it’s a small minority.
Bowling is already dead
It is all fun and games until Leauge bowlers bowl on a 1:1 Ratio dead flat Pattern 😵💫
I bowled on a 1.6 to 1 and it was too difficult for me😀. I try to only bowl tournaments with tough patterns and don't bowl league. I do practice on the house shot at a couple different centers. .
Cool video talk tech bowling Jr Raymond
People are gonna be butt hurt over these comments…but…Truth does hurt sometimes….Balance in life is always good…”Balance Daniel san…“ I will say this …I think Summer leagues keep the lights on…🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
No way !! Not even close !! Bowling is insanely on the rise !! 👉
Using urethane on tour doesnt make you a good bowler either
It does if that is what gives you a better chance to shoot high scores. I didn't bowl for 20 years. Still haven't figured out when bowlers started getting brainwashed about urethane.
Hey JR, why don’t you use your top of your bald head and put a bowling logo on it?
I'm certain when JR bowled in leagues, (and /or if he still does, which would be hypocritical) his opinion would be different, had he heard some moron suggest to eliminate leagues
Sandbaggers are ruining bowling......