HONEST Talk about HiFi Audio for Audiophiles and Their Gear
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Are audiophiles right? Are the angry forum posters right? Let's take a look at what's really going on in high end audio and finding the right hifi equipment for you.
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I see you have the AC Helene in the background there. Nice. I’m curious to see how you like it. Some advice, but perhaps you already know this: Like the Antipodes, leave the Helene powered on. It will sound really good after a day. It will sound magical after being powered on for 3 days. A high quality USB cable between the Antipodes and Helene is the best option, I found. Lastly, the Helene will benefit being placed on a Wellfloat platform.
Thanks for the tips! Always appreciated.
I do plan to power it up for a day prior to listening and I'm going to listen both "stock" on the shelf and then on the Well-float. I agree with you everything sounds better with vibration control.
Right now I am running the STEALTH Audio USB cable with great success.
Thanks for watching!
I’m into this hobby for a long time. My opinion is you don’t have to own expensive gears to enjoy music😊👽✌🏼
Very true!
There is a law of diminishing returns, the problem is that people use it to claim other people are stupid for spending more but that is not what that is about. In a way when you take top end stuff, be it a car, hifi gear, computing equipment, etc. some pricing of it will be influenced by the fact that fewer people will be buying the product, therefore more money has to be requested if the OEM is going to be able to reinvest in the business again, meaning that are not linear to the actual product performance. The thing though that a lot of people often not realize is that the very affordable stuff wouldn't be that affordable if there wasn't heavy R&D that is done for producing the expensive products. It's like in cars where the "used car buyers" end up thinking those who buy cars new are dumb, completely overlooking the fact that there can be no "used car" without it having been new at first. Let alone the fact that different products have different meaning to different people and our financial standing often dictate most of our tastes.
Your audiophile temperament for me is spot on. Love your enthusiasm to the hobby. No one will tell the truth but I can convey it through your emotions. Loving what you do. Thank you
Thank you so much.
I'm not here to tell people what to buy - I'm here to help spread the passion for the hobby regardless of gear or price.
I hope you'll subscribe!
I was about to leave a comment that there are two more main categories of people that are into Hi-Fi, but you mentioned the first at the end of the video: The ones that CANNOT hear the difference. I had quite a few A/B tests in the past, for example tube rolling, and while there were huge differences in sound that everyone could commend on and agree, there was always someone that couldn't hear a difference (as I couldn't spot a difference changing cables at the studio once for example, while my friend could).
The other category are the ones that say "piece of gear X costs only 1,5k but measures so much better than anything else, therefore you are a fool to buy anything more expensive". I mean if it works for you buy it and enjoy it. I bet it does have it's place in a studio environment, but when music playback and enjoyment comes into place, that's not what I'm after. Most of my friends are musicians, I've played in bands, I have a semi-pro recording studio in my basement and tons of equipment. I know what goes on in making, recording, processing, mixing and mastering music. I wouldn't ever choose that gear for my living room.
There's more smaller hi-fi enthusiasts groups though, for example the vintage gear geeks. Here in Greece the "Multichannel Mob" is very prevalent. They believe that you need at least 7 active studio monitors, 4 sub-woofers and immersive up-scaling AV receivers to properly listen to music! And they try to force their beliefs to everyone else, and the ones that don't have such systems do not know what they are talking about according to them.
NO! I own a multichannel system, and while I enjoy it in some cases, I prefer to listen to music in 2 channels. Just some random thoughts...
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Relative ive heard 300k systems and they were amazing, not jealous though just different priorities, i agree with you. Buying a expensive sports car doesn't make you a better driver on or off the track
I totally agree with you.
Perfectly on point and it’s enough to walk in a Margolis room at a show to hear how much performance for “little” money can be had when a system is properly engineered. Still true high end or ultra hi end when properly implemented is something else.
Eager to hear your opinion on these two new beautiful pieces.
Margolis is a GREAT example of fantastic sound for a fair price.
Very well said. Fully agree. People spend $$ on what they like. Let them be. I am into watches & hifi & when i tell people how much i spend on an Omega watch, ordinary folks would go nuts. Same goes for hifi. And like what u said in the video, these are also the same people who spend alot on cars, designer clothes etc. So buy whatever that catches your fancy or floats your boat.
One has to cut one's cloth. Fortunately musical enjoyment is available at many price points. I agree that expensive does not always mean better sound. It's unusual not to see some super elaborate and expensive turntable on display in your setup 😮
Cheers from Wales
The other point I want to make is that there is little agreement about what is “good” or “high end” sound. I prefer to use the term “end game” to indicate the point at which you will stop going down the high end rabbit hole. That point, of course, differs for everyone which really is my point. Unfortunately, advice like “just go out and listen for yourself” rings a little hollow in today’s world as the opportunities to do this are limited. Larger RUclipsrs are about the only people who get to demo equipment in their listening rooms. The rest of us are taking those reviews and making our best guess about what might work for us.
Audiophiles are quick to fight over expensive equipment, but rarely do we accept our responsibility to educate ourselves about audio and make better educated decisions. Let’s take the $10,000 BAT integrated amp in your video. The question isn’t whether it’s a “bargain.” The question is how well might it integrate in my system and could another amp do it better. I’m having a custom speaker built that is designed to be bi-amped. I need power amps. I don’t need or really want an integrated amp. For the tweeter/midrange, I need 10-20 watts per channel, not 50. On the bottom end, I need 200-300 watts per channel. The BAT amp might be a fine piece of equipment, but it just doesn’t fit my needs and I can address my needs for less than $10,000. Class AB and especially Class D amps offer great bass control and my required level of power can be had at around $1500 (or less). For the tweeter midrange, the key is not much power is needed so there are options that are high quality and less than half the cost of the BAT amp. This is not to say that the BAT amp is a bad piece of equipment or that it won’t be the right solution for some people. For me, however, regardless of price, it is a bad fit.
All great points and thank you for sharing.
Shows are a great place to get exposed to gear and they are all over the US and easy to access from any major area.
Also most high end dealers will let you try the gear in your system to make sure it works for you.
Thanks for watching!
You may want to check the price on Helene DAC. It retails for $19,000 not $30,000. The Kassandra Reference II is $30,000.
You're right. Thank you.
It’s a fun hobby I’ve never looked at it in any other way ,I have an office system consisting of beautiful vintage Pioneer SX-5590 receiver , TeKton lore speaker’s a music server and Denifrips Venus 12th anniversary dac I listen to at least twice as much as my main system that’s many times the cost. I enjoy both my systems equally the dac costs more then both receiver and speakers combined. There’s a spectacular synergy going on with this vintage receiver and this particular TeKton speaker model that is uncanny.
Synergy is key!
This is from a Black man O.G. and music loving audiophile( my full title🤣). I'm blessed that i can hear differences in equipment and interconnects. I have a 44+ year love affair with high end audio, and a longer one with various music genres. All the aspects mentioned, (along with attending live music events) has allowed me to assemble an endgame system that satisfies me. Whenever I visited my audio dealer I didn't desire to trade anything for 11 years. However, I traded my Sota Comet after 30 years, for a pre-owned Sota Sapphire a few months ago and the improvement was amazing,(though the Comet was great and a upgrade from a Technics 1200 mk2). I have $18,000 invested which the "masses" would consider insane. I'm single( wives and girlfriends, including the one I have now interfere with the pursuit of sonic perfection!🤣🤣). I've mentioned these statements on another channel. Yes, if it were up to them they would have me listening to a cheap ass sound bar, or some equally cheesy Bluetooth speakers(yecch!) and earbuds (Nooooo!!). In closing, to all my fellow music loving audiophile brethren, keep the turntables, reels, cd's analog tuners and tapes spinning and playing!!👍👍😄😄 One more thing: tubes and mosfet amps(so tube like!) I have to have them man!
Thanks for watching William and sharing your gear with us!
I agree with everything except the Accord vs BMW. You must of had a regular 5 series that was an “M- Sport”. Couldn’t have been an actual M car. 😂
Correct - it was not an M5.
Yeah I thought that comment was kind of suspect as well 😂... Although I was thinking more along the lines of "does this guy really know how to drive?" 😅
@@toddt5562😂😂😂
NICE HOBBY !!! ENJOY !!!
It's a hobby! You have the right to pursue it any way you want. Make choices out of excitement, sure. Have fun. We've all made bad choices. It's part of the experience.
Well said!
I definitely agree with most of this.
But I can also tell you that if you tell someone that an audio setup is super expensive, when really it’s not, the person is going to think that the experience sounds a lot better than it really does. It’s psychological.
Thanks for watching. That's not how it has worked in my experience. That is simply an online fairy tail. If you tell someone a woman is good looking, and she is not, they don't suddenly believe she is.
There is a lot of room to squeeze out performance in the 'source' equipment if you are willing to get into building ultracapacitor based custom RPI solutions using Ian Canada parts and using Diretta with Gentooplayer. Time and time again the perception of what my speakers could do was blown away once I realized a lot of performance comes down to what your feeding your gear with and the quality of the data. Granted, it would sound even better with Magicos but point is, you can squeeze out everything from your current gear and have fun doing without breaking the bank. Yes, you'll spend a few thousand but not $20K.
What music is used to evaluate gear? Sorry, likely spelled out before in another post by you.
Here is a Qobuz link to my playlist I use and reference in the videos: open.qobuz.com/playlist/21157104
You don't have enough for a Rolex because your into HI-End HIFI 😄ask me how I know. 😁 Its true what you say, I've worked my way up the HIFI component ladder for over 30 years and there is a substantial difference from decent to higher end gear. Yes, some gear is over priced for what you get and other gear is undervalued as well. Case in point: I had upgraded a Chord Cutest DAC to a Holo May KTE. The performance upgrade was substantial for the cost. (Holo May is undervalued) I had that May DAC for two years before upgrading my speakers. I didn't hear much improvement in my speakers until I updated to a Bartok Apex DAC and was blown away. I think some consumers make the mistake of not balancing their system. You cant expect a plus $15,000 DAC to be a substantial improvement paired with $8,000 speakers. Synergy is key in HIFI audio IMO. Everybody is different in taste and what they want/like and that's what makes the world go round.
Well said!
I 100% agree, however all the time I have been watching this video I have been desperate for you to review that stunning Aris amp.
Coming soon I promise. I'm going to do at least two videos - one as an overview and one focused solely on sound quality. Be sure to subscribe to be notified when they are released.
I'm gonna go with very good affordable gear is plenty.
And nothing wrong with that! There is some great gear at great prices for sure.
A Ferrari goes like a demon, the high end rooms at Pacific Audio Fest 2024 were a major disappointment. The best sounding rooms were the most modestly priced.
Yeah - I head the show was a fraction of its former self and that they are not going to be holding it next year.
@@GreekAudioGeek hopefully 2026 will be back and better.
There are a lot of parts to this video. First of all, we all vote with our wallets. We want what we want for reasons of performance or exclusivity or a combination of the two. The performance may be measurable or it just may be perceived, but if it makes you happy, who cares???
However, the law of diminishing returns is a real economic concept. The idea is simple as applied to audio: at some point you will be spending increasing amounts of money for smaller performance gains. But there is no clear point at which this law kicks in and the law says nothing about whether those small gains are important to you. And the law certainly does not mean that any product is too expensive. In short, I see little real world application for the law of diminishing returns to audio or most other purchases. Trying to use the law of diminishing returns to any purchase decision, IMHO, is just a mis-application of the law and shows a lack of understanding of what it does and does not mean.
Hifi gear is like spanakopita:
you don't have to spend a lot for it to be really tasty
For sure! But olive oil is a different story.... ;)
I am much newer to the hobby but feel you missed a category... the measurement guys. If they can't measure a difference between two amps then they argue why pay triple or more for one of them? They would add that tube amps distort the sound and if you like that, go for it, but to get accurate low distortion sound to the speaker does not take a $10k amp. One other point from that group is sighted bias. You see it is a very expensive amp so your brain tells you it sounds better, even though it doesn't. Thus group contains some very knowledgeable audiophiles and some wealthy ones too. I think they make some compelling arguments, particularly when it comes to amps and cables. What do you think?
I am well aware of them. There is a joke about them: when they get together to each others systems and they play music they all complain about how horrible it sounds. But then they tell themselves it's OK because at least it measures "good:.
Pretty simple - if you need measurements to tell you whether you can hear a difference, then you need a different hobby.
@@GreekAudioGeek i do think that many forum warriors go too far with it but there are some clear voices in that camp too. Amir from ASR has a $25k set of speakers because he hears the value in them but likely would not recommend an extremely expensive amplifier because you don't need one to get accurate sound with low Distortion at high volume. The guy researched and worked in audio at Microsoft for years so it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing. But he will also accept the fact that people should buy what they want and what they like. I feel like your response to my comment may be appropriately dismissive of some of the ranting voices on the internet but fail to address some of the people with deep expertise that value measurement as a strong component of assessing value in the hobby.
With the utmost respect, Amir is not well regarded by anyone in higher end audio. His measurements are considered seriously flawed by just about every single high end audio manufacturer as they are not done in the correct way. He literally said not to by a headphone amp and he refused to listened to it because he said it didn't measure well. I have had or listened to over 100 headphone amps and it is the best sounding one I've ever heard. LOL. He has been kicked off of just about every forum because of his nonsense.
@@GreekAudioGeek thanks for the responses, your attentiveness in the comments is a great way to build your channel. I can see a lot of high end manufacturers not wanting measurements as it takes the mystery out of their very expensive products. I can't say who measures with skill and who doesn't but a high end manufacturer has a vested interest in trying to diminish the reputation of people whose work puts their value proposition into a harsh light. Because of that, i am skeptical of attacking a guy who did audio measurement in his career at one of the largest tech companies in the world, follows the measurement practices of Floyd OToole and Sean Olive from Harman Audio and offers his measurements all for no profit, not accepting any ads on his rather well attended audiophile forum. I don't think measurements are everything by any means but they seem to be a legitimate way of cutting through some of the expensive snake oil in the audio space. YMMV of course.
I agree with your comments and by the way Aries Cerat is a killer !!! Hope one day you can review their DAC
I have the Helene DAC here as well I will be trying. I'll keep you all updated!
I get what you’re saying ..but I think people who say “it’s not worth it “..generally don’t have their systems set up to show actually how good their stuff actually is..or could be with better pieces .
Btw,I’m a Patek Philippe ⌚️man myself 🤣
Those are nice watches for sure!
An uplifting video, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
When you said Honda Accord I had to laugh. I own a 24 year old one. Nice video. Keep it up.
I'm on your side, 98% 😊 extrem quality and highest components cost a lot of money, as I know many Highend DIY project as well! Also own expensive Preamp and Amp and have been an great upgrade to my mid-level speakers! What many of us underestimate extremely, if you have tremendeous good electronic, they will put ANY speaker to the next level! I do see so many people spending a lot on speakers and little on electronic, I do exactly the opposite! Speakers in the 15-20k are for me many times equal to 50-80k, just a matter of really good electronic match + personal flavo)!! Aries Cerat I dont like, because all if their equipment is way oversized and doesnt fit any average living room, no go for me 😊 The challenge in the higher range of Highend/Ultra-Highend, so many are just blending and argumenting with their unique, long-researched product. THIS IS NOT CORRECT for tube amp designs, ALL OF THEM are very old ones! look at Kondo, AN or Audio Research!! Similar happens in speaker designs, nothing new just crazy materials, we all know the "egg" is the perfect design, but knowone would buy it.
Thanks for watching!
My JF Reynaud Cantibile loudspeakers are too expensive new at 5k.....second hand 800. My solution. However turntable upgrades are always with new gear.
Only thing with that outlay, is make sure you get it right for you, otherwise it's an expensive blunder . More affordable gear you do get a second chance .
It's human nature to say i love my set up, but deep down you don't.
Great advice for sure.
I made a video for TAS stating the Law of Diminishing Returns is bull. It generated a lot of discussion. Also on WBF.
Hi Lee - yeah the forums seems to bring out some real nit-witts. LOL
You have nice gear, wow
Thank you. It's only on loan.
M, I don't need a Mojo, but I'm getting one. Got all my new cables needed already to go. Just need $650 to click (purchase); It's a month away. Best, D.
Keep us updated!
❤
Thanks for watching!
I want a ferrari.
Me too.
just ignore the comments, most are not worth it
I buy broken Vintage gear that was once expensive, repair and restore it. Sounds just as good as todays modern stuff.
Interesting. Which of today's modern stuff have you compared it to?
@@GreekAudioGeek Yamaha AS1200, Denon PMA-3000NE, Technics G700M2. I dove into the Chifi brands Topping, SMSL and was pleasantly surprised. What I took away from all of it was how much money do you want to spend to "Just enjoy the music". Now I own Vintage Yamaha, Luxman, Sony, Technics, Nakamichi, Pioneer, Akai... People will basically give top vintage gear away because a capacitor is blown, relay is corroded etc..
@@adaboy4z as i also own some vintage gear, I dont like the comparison, because electronic had been changed a lot in tbe last 15y. I'm on your side in regards of designs, still many use the same good old principles. Vintage gear with the right match sounds very good, but not per se as good as modern gear. Also newer speakers are not designed for older vintage gear (Ohm ratings, current, output levels etc). Unfortunately many people underestimate the treasure of certain vintage gear of good old Hiraga, Nelson Pass and many others...
@@gerihifi I havent found any amp yet that sounds as good as my Restored Yamaha B2 and Sony TA 4650 Vfet amps. I believe the Golden era of audio was 70s, early 80s where manufactures poured their money into making the best amps, preamps, tuners and tape players. Now speakers yes, enormous strides in materials. I have some vintage Yamaha and Infinity speakers that sound good with anything.
There is not absolut Truth in anything only relative.
I assume you live in greece and I don't know you income but i see that net average wage in greece is around 900-1000 euro a month not including other bill we have to pay like electricity,food, health, house rental, car fuel ,maintenance and car licence and insurance and many other bills ,in this case it is not sensible to buy such expansive devices ,matter of priorities in life!
But if you income is much more than avarege than yes ,
Beside most of the recording are far less than state of the art recordings (mediocre recordigs) so the best you can get is the recording quality no matter the quality of devices,what some people say " junk in junk out" . Everybody calculate what he can afford and what not , that's life, priorities choices.🎉
Actually, there is absolute truth. Only people who lie or people who don't like the truth say truth is relative.
e5000 video?🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
I'm going to be editing it this week. :)