We've got an identical setup except for the HX stomp boxes. We're using the line 6 helix rack that processes both guitars and bass because of its capability of having individual signal chains at the same time. Sweet job with the stomp boxes! The LP 16 is a livesaver
@@Starcrunch72 a personal favorite of mine, I run into this monthly. I have made it a habbit to call/email bands myself to double check things when they seem kindof screwy.
Its only right you feel proud of your work. Just putting the rig together is tough but charting the music and programming the midi program changes for 3 Hx Stomps must have taken some hard work. Kudos to you Trey
Brilliant. Fuckin absolute Brilliance. Dude, this should be made available to every band as a whole package with tips/instructions verbatim. ABSOLUTELY. Hats off to you my brother and a pint raised in your name for being a genius.
Man this is the best all in one rack system video I’ve ever seen. I especially love how you run the HX Stomps with the Cymatic Audio LP 16. I would have never heard about it, and especially never known it could trigger midi changes. I’m looking to do this with my band for vocal effects as well as guitar effects and possibly midi keys and lights if I can make it all work. Great job! Now I’ve got a lot to learn!
I play with the band Tragacanth from Nederlands. We have something similar, simpler in a way, but more complicated in others. We have an Allen and Heath idr32 mixer, a Kemper, an Atomic 3 and a Line6 bas pod pro, all 3 midi controlable. Backingtracks come from a Macbook pro, together with midi change AND a videotrack for the whole show. We have lyrics videos for all the songs, 2 screens and shortthrow projectors. We do wired inear, in stereo, using 10meter cables taped together with the guitar cable. The mixer has 16 outs, so we don't need splitters, i can do stereo mixes for everybody and send separate guitars, bas, voc and backingtracks to FOH.
Our rig has a split snake and we run our own drum mics. Kick mic is mounted in a shock mount in the kick, and we have cymbal stands attached to the hihat and ride cymbals. All the other mics just clip onto the toms and snare. We use Line 6 G-90 wireless systems with our 2 Kempers for guitar, and a Darkglass for bass. Our 2 wireless mics are in the rack as well. Opted for the XR-18 instead. It's still a single case, but it has 2 racks in it. Reaper runs our midi for our Kempers through the midi port on the XR-18.
To be fair, a 5 piece band is splitting this cost. Where the rack might be $10,000 each member is paying $2000, most of which can be financed & even sold later at little to no loss. If you’re passionate about playing live music you can come up with $2000 some way or another
Great video. Having built a few racks like this before, your point about planning it out beforehand can't be stressed enough. I like to make big documents with every single piece of gear I need, every cable I need, and every different type of signal path (power, audio, MIDI, etc.) so that all I have to do is get the gear, make the cables, and wire it up when it comes time to actually build.
Hey Trey, thank you so much for that video. We're thinking in our band switching to iem and working with a backing track and as I saw that Live Player in your rig my life was saved. That thing really makes your setup easier: you don't need an additional computer with an additional audio interface and a bunch more of cables. And it's midi capable!!! So great! Thank you very much for sharing this.
This video is amazing my band coast n bay now runs a similar setup. That cynamtic audio player is literally a dream for running backtracks. We've invested in a laptop and has always had problems with it. That live player literally takes out the guess work and makes it a plug and play.
Thanks man, that video helped a lot! Could you also make one on how you use and program the MIDI patches on the three HX Stomps with just that one LP-16? And your band sounds amazing, can‘t wait for more!
It seems no one wants to share knowledge about midi patching. Im almost 2 years looking on the net and nothing. That would be a lot of help of he could explain that
After see with atention its fantastic ! I also want to see video how to program midi patches and click track sync Can you make this ? regards from Portugal
MIDI patching should be straight forward in a setup like this, since you only have one source + the Helixes. As long as the devices have MIDI through, you could just daisy-chain them. Otherwise you would need multiple MIDI outs or a MIDI splitter. If you need different patch changés on each HX Stomp, you would need them to react to different MIDI channels and program the LP 16 to send the corresponding MIDI program changes. It's usually easiest to have all units use the same patch numbers for the same songs. And the click track... I don't know what to explain about it. Just send it to your monitors and make sure to play in time. If you want to set something like this, you will most certainly have to read the manuals of the units you're using. But MIDI switching is really no rocket science. You will have to spend a lot of more time to make sure all your patches do sound the way they should.
That little rack is GORGEOUS. I absolutely love the automation and MIDI control. Nicely done sir...this kind of setup was not even possible just a decade ago unless you were Metallica or a Rockefeller. 👍👍
Excellent build . You should get lacing bars that install in the rack holes for the back. Then velcro your cables to it, it takes the weight off of the connectors.
Great job, and thanks for showcasing the sequencer, very interesting. My build has a 2U CBI 16 input splitter with plenty of trunk cable. Everything fit in the 12U version of your rack with the exception of the Mac mini (with keyboard, mouse, monitor) and guitar/instrument processing lives off-rack). Ableton provides backing tracks and adds drum and vocal effects with midi changes per song. The Allen & Heath Qu-Pac 32 is the rack mixer which has plenty of I/O and is an excellent interface.
I made something similar for my 4 piece symphonic metal band last year. Made everything fit in a 6RU SKB rolling rack, but using both front and back for the pieces. Not the greatest set up, but I also have a 23kg flying limit I have to keep in mind. Would like to make it 2 smaller, modular racks eventually. Guitar and bass both just running through one Helix Floor
Wow. Insane. Having three HX Stomps in the rack and simply having to plug your guitars and bass into the transmitters... that’s nothing short of brilliant. I know Periphery run their shows off of a laptop and have it do all the MIDI switching on their AXE FXs but this is even a level above that. I have to say though that mono IEM is something I can only shake my head it. I legitimately loathe it and my head always drops when I’m forced to use it. Thanks so much for taking the time and explaining everything in depth!!! Awesome awesome awesome!
This is an incredible video. I wasn't aware of the X-32 and how great that can be for controling your own IEMs. I also know a lot of EBM and industrial bands that run their tracks from their laptop and I've seen in fail on them a lot. That LP-16 seems like the perfect solution for that
The x air 18 is a slightly more cost efficient option, the only downside is a little less versatility and no lcd screen so no control without a laptop or tablet
I Love these tech videos, you’ve done a killer job with this rack. I’m gonna do something like this but with presonus series 3 gear, their NSB stage boxes are gone be INCREDIBLE!!!!
@@gregg4164 Well, for the functionality packed in there, I do consider it cheap and effective. If you're just looking at the $$$ spend, I imagine it's a little on the steep side. However, I see a LOT of guitarists getting around with Paul Reed Smith guitars and Mesa Boogies, so there are people spending cash routinely on their gig gear.
How come you need to split the signal and send half to front of house? Couldn’t you send a mono L and R from the x32 to channel 1 and 2 of front of house and pan the mixes?
yea if it were not for streaming services taking over the party scene :( thank god for weddings even if people request the same Craptastic tunes every time :( only the special dance tunes change once and awhile. I think I'm immune to "the wind beneath my wings" at this point.
Great setup! I’d love to see a more in depth video about how the midi switching works - how you cue the songs to start, how to program the info on the thumb drive, etc. Thanks!!
We made pretty much this same video two years ago. Not only that, but you released your version on my birthday haha main difference for us is that instead of having the sound guy use his own cables into our rack, we have a snake inside our rack and give the sound guy our tails. This way the rack doesn't even need to be on stage, and the sound guy doesn't need to suddenly produce 10 extra cables or unplug his mics and leave them in a corner just to deal with us. For particularly grumpy sound guys, we tag and label his existing cables while they're still in the stage box so he can quickly restore them when we're finished. Most sound guys worth their shit either have already dons this, or have enough spaces in their stage box that it isn't even necessary.
Have been using the LP-16 for switching my rig & clicktracks forever. Best thing ever... The helix stomps make me want to dump my Kemper and build a rig like this.
For the midi switching, you just have to add a midi track that has the program changes in it, into the song ? I haven't seen videos on the LP 16 for the midi part ^^'
Basically there's a tool (Cymatic cymatic utool) that you have to use to set up your tracks and playlists and write them to a USB stick. You assign your (up to) 16 wave files and a single midi file per track. The midi file is pretty easy to set up in your DAW, along with the other tracks. For multiple devices, your MIDI track should send program changes on different channels. It's a pain in the ass to set everything up, but once you have it all in place, you gain a great deal of freedom when performing. Totally worth it.
Nice job. Put the X32 below the splitter and panel, so it's a lot easier to get to their back panels. Then make custom-length cables to make room so you can see in there.
This is so fucking awesome! I have a kemper but that HX stomp intrigues me since making a rig as light and compact as possible but still sound great is the goal.
Thanks for this video Trey! I'm getting ready to launch a project that's going to need something similar to this, but a bit more expanded. This setup looks like an incredible start to building my own rack!
Glad to see I'm not the only one rack mounting HX Stomps with MIDI control. I got our all-in-one rig finished up this last week before our run of shows next month lol. I have our setlist on my laptop which is mounted in our rack (its got a removable top for an optional soundboard) with USB hooked up to the stomp but I dig your way of controlling it. We have a programmed light show off of the setlist session so that's our difference. Your excitement for the Stomp just about matches mine though...it's a swiss army knife of a unit for sure.
Awesome Rack!!! In the process of building one just like it. One quick question, What is the purpose of the UE Sound Tap? and why not going straight into the behringer?
The Sound Tap lets you pull a signal from a powered monitor line, you can't plug a speaker cable directly into the Behringer because it'll blow it up haha. If you can get a regular old mic or line level signal off the board then you don't need it.
Hey thanks for this video! Do you power the LP16 with the furman power conditioner? Is there any special adapter involved or do you connect it straight to the power conditioner? Thanks!
that LP-16 is a game-changer; I was about to drop way too much money on a laptop when that would do the job for easily half the price, plus not needing to bring an interface. Can't thank you enough, much love!
Great video, awesome setup. Would love to hear you elaborate on how you set up the MIDI tracks that send signal along with the backing tracks; How does it work with the stomp? Is each one on a MIDI channel and how do you program which parameter does what with the stomp?
If there are no cabs on stage , how does the audience within the first 20 feet from center stage hear the guitars or bass if the pa mains pump from the sides and bounce off the back wall? Is there ever an issue with that ?
C Math thats the job of the pa. Bringing everything from the stage to the audience. And it‘s much easier to do a balanced mix if you don‘t have to worry about stage volume. You don‘t have to deal with the 11/10 master volume guitarist who is louder than the pa.
Herr Veranstaltungstechniker that’s the thing, if there is no stage volume, anywhere directly in front of the stage (that does not get PA coverage, because it’s either hung above/to the side) is going to be missing guitar/bass coverage unless there are front fills up.
I've also heard that this is a common problem for bands who run 100% line guitars, if the venue doesn't provide front fillers the drums are going to take over for people that are too close to the stage. Hopefully as more bands adopt these kind of setups the venues will catch up
This is amazing. The only thing I can think to improve would be to squeeze another one or two rack spaces somehow and add a custom redco patch panel for all inputs/outputs to be plugged into. That reduces the likelihood of interconnect cables of getting jacked up and makes it even more thoughtless during setup. :)
Great video. Love everything in 1 rack. I would prefer to lose the drawer and add another 8 in and 8 out split and get those drums separated. But I have an old rack that came from the Four Tops that is all drawers! This video will help a lot of bands.
That's a really awesome rack, i especially love the automatic preset switching, and the playback unit in general! One slight improvement you could make: wouldn't it be easier to have a labelled snake for the outputs to foh, so the soundguy doesn't need 8 individual cables and could just plug your snake straight into his stagebox? That would also safe you another unit height in the rack. Also noone except your guys would have to touch the rack at all! 😊
That's. Fucking. Dope. By far, the best execution I've seen of this concept. The realtime midi switching is something of witchcraft! Also you totally sold me on one of those HX stomps. Fantastic job!
There literally is a more advanced, 1U rackmount version of that backing track device, with the midi output at the back, by the same company. Cymatic Audio uTrack24 The non rack version that you have is pretty cool, if you have it on your pedalboard. We normally keep it by the drummer, he controls the playback. But once I get my hands on the Fractal FM3, i'll build myself an all-in-one pedalboard and I will probably place the Backtrack device there. Btw, in your case, I recomment buying a low profile angled MIDI cable. It will look way less awkward at the front of the unit.
Thanks for the informative video. The live player and the power conditioner might be a good addition to my own IEM Rack. However I'd like to point out that it is quiet hard to get a good IEM sound with mono tracks. Fortunately Behringer has two awesome products which enable each band member to have their own stereo IEM mix. For around a 1000 bucks more you can buy the Behringer Powerplay PD16-D and a Behringer Powerplay P16-M for each band member. Feed the PD16-D from the X32 mixers ultranet output and go from there to each of the P16-M units. Now each band member has the same 16 channels (selectable by choice in X32) on their own P16-M unit and can mix them together individually to their own liking. Of course this means spending more money and managing more hardware but in my opinion an individual stereo IEM mix for each bandmember is definitely worth it. Furthermore Behringer has awesome extension modules for the X32 which enabled me to add another splitter and tap the drum mics into the x32 as well.
Great rig pal. I'm looking at stuff that would work well in a set up and tear down church for worship. Not seen anything like the Line 6 unit you put together there - solid!
Just wondering, as I am getting ready to start building my live setup soon. How does this rig hold up in 2022? Have you upgraded in efficiency or is this about as efficient as it gets? Have you added any new gear to this?
use your own splitter setup and multi from rack to stagebox so after soundcheck you keep it hooked up. I mix multiple venues and I get more and more bands using this system, but miss the last crucial steps to be self contained. What if one of the many venue cables you ask is defective? get 2 behringer ms8000 and a decent labeled multi from the splitter to the front and maybe a labeled one as an extention from the stagebox to your splitter. Then you are set. Without these setups are a real pain because you're forcing big time consuming changes in the venues setup during changeover.
Definitely agree. These setups are very cool, but sometimes bands don't seem to think ahead or realize that goes into setting up this kind of rig on the FOH end. At my venue, we often have 5 or more bands playing 25 min sets with fast changeovers. A band will then come up to me 2 minutes before they are supposed to start and want me to unplug my entire stagebox and plug in their inputs (often with unlabeled cables, soundcheck, etc. So now when the next band plays, I have to eat into that band's setup time in order to unplug the last bands inputs, reattach all of my inputs, etc. Not to mention, now all of my preamp, eq, levels etc will have to be checked because I have no idea what signal you're going to be sending me from your rig. So, always ask your sound engineer as soon as you arrive at the venue if it's viable to use this kind of rig and be ready to adjust if they say they aren't comfortable pulling apart their entire stagebox just for one band.
we're currently building own all-in-one rack xr18 air mixer axe fx3 for guitar/bass/vocal stuff - yep, everyone will use it except drummer shure wireless mic stuff noname mono iem 4 channels - will be changed to sehnheiser when we got bit more money and laptop with studio one and playback/click stuff - i think problem of forgetting laptop somewhere is exaggerated probably i'll think about some playback player backup solution so main sound is completely mixed except drums and going stereo to main console
Thanks for the video! I love the concept of the "prewired-all-in-one-rack". But I'm still not sure to keep multiple racks for beeing more flexible since I play in different bands. I love the "no-floor-boards" idea! But one question to all you string-players: How do you tune? I love my rack tuner, but then remote-muting is an issue. So do you use just clip-tuners? And how do you mute for cable unplugging? Digital wireless --> easy, else --> ???
Hi, I noticed you mentioned at 6:50 about running the HX stomps without a Cab sound on it. I am having the exact same dilemma at the moment where some venues are asking for us to use cabs. And obviously you mentioned that you run a line out without a Cab/IR on it as that causes the cabs to sound super muddy. But how do you deal with the signal running to your ears as I have noticed that if I remove the the Cab/IR from my Helix patch, the signal in my ears is super high FQ and has a lot of static. Is there a way to run one line to your ears with Cab/IR and another without Cab/IR to the cabs?
So question? Could you do a video on how you set HX stomps and the LP-16 to do the changes in a song.. I am new to the midi game and I would like to do something similar for my team.
For micing my band's kit we use the Yamaha EAD-10 it's 1 microphone and it can hear all the drums around it! It uses our splitter to hear it and that's it!
Hello - at 25:38 you said that you run some things in through the behringer and back out to FOH, I don't understand why you don't run everything the same way ie. Either through the x32 or through the splitter 🤔
thats a killer idea! i am not a drummer. i have seen drums that have had microphones permanently mounted inside the shells and you just plug the mic lead into the shell that would solve the problem of having the house mixer micing up the drums and getting the drum sound to your in ears though you might need to have mixer in your rack
I am a drummer, and also a recording engineer. I'm working on refinishing and customizing an old set of drums, including internally mounted mics, with another drummer friend. We'll certainly be putting up a video on the process.
We're planning a new live rack. The question I have is: How do you get the drums into your iem? Do you also route all the drum mics to your splitter or does the FOH-mixer give you a stereo-sum-signal to insert in your iem mixer?
We are having the same thought process, we think we will route kick, snare (and maybe overhead/hi-hat) to splitter, the rest will go directly to FOH to the sound-guy. That will save up some input/output space as well. I do not know however if we need a separate antenna system for our IEMs, or if antennas hanging in the back of the rig is are ok.
@@sebastianklima you don’t HAVE to have antennas. Our sennheiser G4 units sound fine without. However, I will probably purchase an antenna system soon to help clean up some RF stuff we’re currently having.
In Ethereal Kingdoms we ask for a drums submix from FoH and route that back in, avoids fucking around with the drum mic setup which is not necessarily in our control on multi-band shows or when we don't bring our own tech.
Great work! This is a great solution. Just a thought: being handy with a soldering iron, and making custom length cables for all of this would certainly reduce the cost (for those of us who don't have hookups with Hosa), and would basically eliminate the spaghetti-ness of the back - not to mention improve airflow through a rack that's as tightly packed as this one. Obviously, it would add to the time required to build the rack to make a bajillion cables, but your mileage may vary.
Nice rack! one suggestion - get a UPS instead of the "power conditioner" so that if power goes out momentarily, you don't lose any settings on your mixer or other units. If you really want, you could step up to an AR-1215 Voltage regulator, but they are pricey. Computer UPS for the win.
@@treyxaviermusic Yep - especially with iffy power in some places... Audiopile also makes excellent rack cases and their shock mount rack is 24". Plus Mark & Liz are great people.
I mean cable is expensive if your not buying in parts. I can do 8m mic cable for $20 and get 5-8 years from them (connectors get recycled I get 10-15 years out of them). Were not even talking super expensive parts either here. neutrik XX series connectors are ~$5 a peace and cable goes for about $1-2 per meter. neutrik XX aren't even that expensive - the low end no name or Amphenol connectors retail for basically the same price and last nowhere near as long. Note pricing is in AUD - half the price if your in Pound or Euro or USD. Brother make tube labels which can be printed on. highly recommended for adding labels and getting none of the tape glue on everything. neutrik also have colour rings which can help identify what is connected to what - there's a transparent one for labels as well. If you have to use tape then high end electrical tape or board tape - which is less likely to make everything sticky.
2 years down the line, I wonder whether the next step forward might be even more integrated systems that are completely laptop based. I KNOW, I KNOW. If you get it to run smoothly, you still need a backup. But hear me out. You’ve got AD/DA conversion a bunch of times. Audio quality aside (with any decent gear, loss in audio quality is negligible), this introduces latency. Then you need multiple cables for MIDI switching. You’re connecting a load of hardware that is only there to perform SOFTWARE tasks. Let’s say you have a really fast computer (not sure today’s M1 Max MacBooks would be up to the task). You could run as many Helix Native instances as you need, or literally any other amp sim, along with all the effects you want without the limitations of what’s provided by a hardware unit. Granted, for most people that’s not that relevant. But the possibilities would be great. You could run the signals from wireless receivers to an interface, do all the processing, click track and backing track duties inside a single computer, and run that out through separate outputs from the interface to FoH. Heck, you might even be able to get away with doing your monitor mix inside a DAW. Although I’ll admit that for stereo IEM for an entire band you’d need such a large interface that you might as well get a rack mixer. Finally you could expand that kind of system to also run lights at any point. Let’s say you have a few moments in your show where you’d like certain accents. You don’t need to bring the entire lighting (not possible for most touring bands). You could probably manage to bring a few LED pars that would help make your show that extra bit more memorable. A system like this would still be pretty pricey, but what do you guys think?
I have a similar setup and really love the idea of the LP16, but I’m curious if you could’ve gone with the Cymatic Audio utrack x32 expansion card and do away with the LP16? That would also solve the weird shape and plug positions on the LP16. Pretty sure the expansion card is cheaper too! An added bonus with the utrack X32 is you’ll have the ability to multitrack record all 32 channels on a thumb drive as opposed to a stereo mix.
No, at least if you want to use the MIDI output you have to use either the LP16 or uTrack24. The X32 expansion card (which has been discontinued) doesn't have MIDI output support.
Nice setup. The only thing I would do differently is to have custom length cables or even small snakes made that are just long enough to get from your wireless receivers to the x32, and from your x32 to your In ear transmitters. That way, you don’t have to roll up excess cables.
I might be missing something obvious here, but I'm brand new to building racks and am in the process of building my first for my current band. Is the only purpose of the UE Sound Tap to split the drum mix into both the on-stage monitor and the X32? In essence, if you didn't need to split the signal back to the monitor, wouldn't you be able to disconnect the on-stage monitor and plug its XLR directly into the X32 and mix it from there? Assuming it's there because your rack is staying connected throughout the entire show, but wondering if that small change in between bands (plugging the XLR back into the stage monitor) would eliminate the need for the UE all together.
Can you PLEASE help me us out with a tutorial on the correct settings for hx stomp to receive midi control like this. Pulling my hair out trying send or receive any midi with hx stomp and invective head! Should work but who knows!
Uh, your band is amazing. Liked. Followed. Purchased.
How much does it cost to purchase a band? Been thinking about getting one myself
@@DeadSilent lol..I doubt money was an obstacle
We've got an identical setup except for the HX stomp boxes. We're using the line 6 helix rack that processes both guitars and bass because of its capability of having individual signal chains at the same time. Sweet job with the stomp boxes! The LP 16 is a livesaver
How do you program the Cymatic and incorporate it to change patches?
"the monitor guy has the power to ruin your life on stage, we give you the power to ruin your own life..."
SOLD! I'm making my own all-in-one rack
Only annoying thing: Explaining FOH people how your splitter/snake works because they refuse to read tech riders. Constant struggle
@@lucasbottner8897 send us your rider and then we can read it. Can't read what we don't have.
@@Flyingdingii Or, "Oh no that was the rider from 3 years ago....Our plot is nothing like that"
😂😂😂 I was reading this at the same time he was saying it
@@Starcrunch72 a personal favorite of mine, I run into this monthly. I have made it a habbit to call/email bands myself to double check things when they seem kindof screwy.
You should do an update on your “All in one” setup
5 people agree with me so far
Its only right you feel proud of your work. Just putting the rig together is tough but charting the music and programming the midi program changes for 3 Hx Stomps must have taken some hard work. Kudos to you Trey
Dudes, such a sick video! I was actually just looking into reworking my live rig too. Thank you for this! 🙏🏼
The x32 is the king! Its the OG! Can't go wrong with an x32!
As a sound engineer, if you were to roll in that rack into my venue, I would love you!!!
...Until you rolled in all those cabs 😂
I feel that :D
We have everything in a rack, and get told that all the time. No amps/cabs for us, though.
LOL
THIS!!!!!! I have people come in with Racks like this with their own mics. Makes my life SOOO much easier
Step 1: Be in a band. That's where I failed.
ha hope your band mates don't see this :D
Same
I wish I was in one lol
I feel you dude.
@@stbone6274 start one, i did it
Absolutely amazing job on that rack. I have been trying to build something similar, but this really gave me a ton of ideas!
Brilliant. Fuckin absolute Brilliance. Dude, this should be made available to every band as a whole package with tips/instructions verbatim. ABSOLUTELY. Hats off to you my brother and a pint raised in your name for being a genius.
Man this is the best all in one rack system video I’ve ever seen. I especially love how you run the HX Stomps with the Cymatic Audio LP 16. I would have never heard about it, and especially never known it could trigger midi changes. I’m looking to do this with my band for vocal effects as well as guitar effects and possibly midi keys and lights if I can make it all work. Great job! Now I’ve got a lot to learn!
I play with the band Tragacanth from Nederlands. We have something similar, simpler in a way, but more complicated in others. We have an Allen and Heath idr32 mixer, a Kemper, an Atomic 3 and a Line6 bas pod pro, all 3 midi controlable. Backingtracks come from a Macbook pro, together with midi change AND a videotrack for the whole show. We have lyrics videos for all the songs, 2 screens and shortthrow projectors. We do wired inear, in stereo, using 10meter cables taped together with the guitar cable. The mixer has 16 outs, so we don't need splitters, i can do stereo mixes for everybody and send separate guitars, bas, voc and backingtracks to FOH.
Our rig has a split snake and we run our own drum mics. Kick mic is mounted in a shock mount in the kick, and we have cymbal stands attached to the hihat and ride cymbals. All the other mics just clip onto the toms and snare. We use Line 6 G-90 wireless systems with our 2 Kempers for guitar, and a Darkglass for bass. Our 2 wireless mics are in the rack as well. Opted for the XR-18 instead. It's still a single case, but it has 2 racks in it. Reaper runs our midi for our Kempers through the midi port on the XR-18.
One of our favorite videos of an IEM system. We've built our own and will be breaking it in this summer playing local and regional shows. Excited!
First step: Have money
mimimi I'm acting financially irresponsible
Or could credit. Lol
🤣👍
To be fair, a 5 piece band is splitting this cost. Where the rack might be $10,000 each member is paying $2000, most of which can be financed & even sold later at little to no loss.
If you’re passionate about playing live music you can come up with $2000 some way or another
I’m taking inspiration and finding cheaper versions of each unit so ig the video is still useful
Great video. Having built a few racks like this before, your point about planning it out beforehand can't be stressed enough. I like to make big documents with every single piece of gear I need, every cable I need, and every different type of signal path (power, audio, MIDI, etc.) so that all I have to do is get the gear, make the cables, and wire it up when it comes time to actually build.
Hey Trey, thank you so much for that video. We're thinking in our band switching to iem and working with a backing track and as I saw that Live Player in your rig my life was saved. That thing really makes your setup easier: you don't need an additional computer with an additional audio interface and a bunch more of cables. And it's midi capable!!! So great! Thank you very much for sharing this.
Never been so amazed from seeing stage equipment! This setting really seems to translate into a perfect live experience
I have $7.
With only .45c more you can buy ONE of the MIDI cables!
Youre broke. I got $8
I think a 2nd hand IKEA shelf will do
😂😂
cbix that ikea shelf will break the second you put the gear
This video is amazing my band coast n bay now runs a similar setup. That cynamtic audio player is literally a dream for running backtracks. We've invested in a laptop and has always had problems with it. That live player literally takes out the guess work and makes it a plug and play.
Thanks man, that video helped a lot! Could you also make one on how you use and program the MIDI patches on the three HX Stomps with just that one LP-16? And your band sounds amazing, can‘t wait for more!
I also want to see video how to program midi patches and click track sync.
It seems no one wants to share knowledge about midi patching. Im almost 2 years looking on the net and nothing. That would be a lot of help of he could explain that
Ricardo Carniça noticed that myself as well. Just gotta figure it out then I’m probably gonna make my own video to explain that for people like us :)
After see with atention its fantastic ! I also want to see video how to program midi patches and click track sync Can you make this ? regards from Portugal
MIDI patching should be straight forward in a setup like this, since you only have one source + the Helixes. As long as the devices have MIDI through, you could just daisy-chain them. Otherwise you would need multiple MIDI outs or a MIDI splitter.
If you need different patch changés on each HX Stomp, you would need them to react to different MIDI channels and program the LP 16 to send the corresponding MIDI program changes. It's usually easiest to have all units use the same patch numbers for the same songs.
And the click track... I don't know what to explain about it. Just send it to your monitors and make sure to play in time.
If you want to set something like this, you will most certainly have to read the manuals of the units you're using. But MIDI switching is really no rocket science. You will have to spend a lot of more time to make sure all your patches do sound the way they should.
That little rack is GORGEOUS. I absolutely love the automation and MIDI control. Nicely done sir...this kind of setup was not even possible just a decade ago unless you were Metallica or a Rockefeller. 👍👍
It costs 10k though...
It gave me some ideas for a rig of my own though...
Little
Awesome setup!... it brings lot of ideas to implement something similar in our church!
this was super useful man. thank you!
Excellent build . You should get lacing bars that install in the rack holes for the back. Then velcro your cables to it, it takes the weight off of the connectors.
Great job, and thanks for showcasing the sequencer, very interesting. My build has a 2U CBI 16 input splitter with plenty of trunk cable. Everything fit in the 12U version of your rack with the exception of the Mac mini (with keyboard, mouse, monitor) and guitar/instrument processing lives off-rack). Ableton provides backing tracks and adds drum and vocal effects with midi changes per song. The Allen & Heath Qu-Pac 32 is the rack mixer which has plenty of I/O and is an excellent interface.
Great video! Couldn’t find the link to the TP Link router you mentioned. Can you post that? Thanks!!
Very cool and interesting. I always appreciate your comprehensive explanations and the approach to your videos. Thank you and Cheers!
I made something similar for my 4 piece symphonic metal band last year. Made everything fit in a 6RU SKB rolling rack, but using both front and back for the pieces. Not the greatest set up, but I also have a 23kg flying limit I have to keep in mind. Would like to make it 2 smaller, modular racks eventually. Guitar and bass both just running through one Helix Floor
Wow. Insane. Having three HX Stomps in the rack and simply having to plug your guitars and bass into the transmitters... that’s nothing short of brilliant. I know Periphery run their shows off of a laptop and have it do all the MIDI switching on their AXE FXs but this is even a level above that.
I have to say though that mono IEM is something I can only shake my head it. I legitimately loathe it and my head always drops when I’m forced to use it.
Thanks so much for taking the time and explaining everything in depth!!! Awesome awesome awesome!
100% with you on the mono iem thing
This is an incredible video. I wasn't aware of the X-32 and how great that can be for controling your own IEMs. I also know a lot of EBM and industrial bands that run their tracks from their laptop and I've seen in fail on them a lot. That LP-16 seems like the perfect solution for that
The x air 18 is a slightly more cost efficient option, the only downside is a little less versatility and no lcd screen so no control without a laptop or tablet
showing up to sound check with a stage plot and on time makes sound guys happy to see you.
Niiiiice sound, great band- solid mix. Thanks for sharing the music and the info!
I Love these tech videos, you’ve done a killer job with this rack. I’m gonna do something like this but with presonus series 3 gear, their NSB stage boxes are gone be INCREDIBLE!!!!
This is a wonderful video. Massive props for getting this solution racked so elegantly, comprehensively and cheaply. Great stuff.
He said it was not cheap. He did it as economically as he could but it was not cheap.
@@gregg4164 Well, for the functionality packed in there, I do consider it cheap and effective.
If you're just looking at the $$$ spend, I imagine it's a little on the steep side. However, I see a LOT of guitarists getting around with Paul Reed Smith guitars and Mesa Boogies, so there are people spending cash routinely on their gig gear.
That is a sweet set up. Well played sir, well played... And I agree with others, the band is the bomb. Good stuff!
How come you need to split the signal and send half to front of house? Couldn’t you send a mono L and R from the x32 to channel 1 and 2 of front of house and pan the mixes?
Keen to hear a live recording using all the outs on this unit
Great work. I'd definitely get antenna combiners for transmitters and receivers and get the antennas out of the rack though.
I built a 18 space Rack extra deep for cable storage in my mobile DJ Rig. huge time saver for set up and tear down .
You did the best possible thing first, which was to be a DJ instead of in a band, then you can afford whatever rack you want
yea if it were not for streaming services taking over the party scene :( thank god for weddings even if people request the same Craptastic tunes every time :( only the special dance tunes change once and awhile. I think I'm immune to "the wind beneath my wings" at this point.
Great setup! I’d love to see a more in depth video about how the midi switching works - how you cue the songs to start, how to program the info on the thumb drive, etc. Thanks!!
We made pretty much this same video two years ago. Not only that, but you released your version on my birthday haha
main difference for us is that instead of having the sound guy use his own cables into our rack, we have a snake inside our rack and give the sound guy our tails. This way the rack doesn't even need to be on stage, and the sound guy doesn't need to suddenly produce 10 extra cables or unplug his mics and leave them in a corner just to deal with us. For particularly grumpy sound guys, we tag and label his existing cables while they're still in the stage box so he can quickly restore them when we're finished. Most sound guys worth their shit either have already dons this, or have enough spaces in their stage box that it isn't even necessary.
Have been using the LP-16 for switching my rig & clicktracks forever. Best thing ever... The helix stomps make me want to dump my Kemper and build a rig like this.
For the midi switching, you just have to add a midi track that has the program changes in it, into the song ? I haven't seen videos on the LP 16 for the midi part ^^'
Yeah Cymatic has a free software that lets you add a MIDI track before you upload it to the LP16, it's pretty easy to use
@@treyxaviermusic Thank you !
Basically there's a tool (Cymatic cymatic utool) that you have to use to set up your tracks and playlists and write them to a USB stick. You assign your (up to) 16 wave files and a single midi file per track. The midi file is pretty easy to set up in your DAW, along with the other tracks. For multiple devices, your MIDI track should send program changes on different channels. It's a pain in the ass to set everything up, but once you have it all in place, you gain a great deal of freedom when performing. Totally worth it.
Nice job. Put the X32 below the splitter and panel, so it's a lot easier to get to their back panels. Then make custom-length cables to make room so you can see in there.
This is so fucking awesome! I have a kemper but that HX stomp intrigues me since making a rig as light and compact as possible but still sound great is the goal.
Fractal has that new micro 3 switch pedal coming real soon too! It looks sexy, it sounds Fractal...and its got MIDI
Thanks for this video Trey! I'm getting ready to launch a project that's going to need something similar to this, but a bit more expanded. This setup looks like an incredible start to building my own rack!
Glad to see I'm not the only one rack mounting HX Stomps with MIDI control. I got our all-in-one rig finished up this last week before our run of shows next month lol. I have our setlist on my laptop which is mounted in our rack (its got a removable top for an optional soundboard) with USB hooked up to the stomp but I dig your way of controlling it. We have a programmed light show off of the setlist session so that's our difference. Your excitement for the Stomp just about matches mine though...it's a swiss army knife of a unit for sure.
I was blown away went you talked about the hx stomp usage. x0
BTW the rack you created is awesome!
Awesome Rack!!! In the process of building one just like it. One quick question, What is the purpose of the UE Sound Tap? and why not going straight into the behringer?
The Sound Tap lets you pull a signal from a powered monitor line, you can't plug a speaker cable directly into the Behringer because it'll blow it up haha. If you can get a regular old mic or line level signal off the board then you don't need it.
Hey thanks for this video!
Do you power the LP16 with the furman power conditioner?
Is there any special adapter involved or do you connect it straight to the power conditioner?
Thanks!
that LP-16 is a game-changer; I was about to drop way too much money on a laptop when that would do the job for easily half the price, plus not needing to bring an interface. Can't thank you enough, much love!
can someone explain why using Cymatic Audio LP16 Live Player? Behringer x32 Rack have playback, and MIDI as well 😕
Great video, awesome setup.
Would love to hear you elaborate on how you set up the MIDI tracks that send signal along with the backing tracks; How does it work with the stomp? Is each one on a MIDI channel and how do you program which parameter does what with the stomp?
If there are no cabs on stage , how does the audience within the first 20 feet from center stage hear the guitars or bass if the pa mains pump from the sides and bounce off the back wall? Is there ever an issue with that ?
C Math thats the job of the pa. Bringing everything from the stage to the audience.
And it‘s much easier to do a balanced mix if you don‘t have to worry about stage volume.
You don‘t have to deal with the 11/10 master volume guitarist who is louder than the pa.
@@herr.veranstaltungstechniker Or bass that's creating standing waves or sound out of phase with the PA that can't be EQd out :-)
Herr Veranstaltungstechniker that’s the thing, if there is no stage volume, anywhere directly in front of the stage (that does not get PA coverage, because it’s either hung above/to the side) is going to be missing guitar/bass coverage unless there are front fills up.
I've also heard that this is a common problem for bands who run 100% line guitars, if the venue doesn't provide front fillers the drums are going to take over for people that are too close to the stage. Hopefully as more bands adopt these kind of setups the venues will catch up
So you go from HX Stomp line out to Behringer X Air mic in? My understanding is that a DI box would be needed.
This is amazing. The only thing I can think to improve would be to squeeze another one or two rack spaces somehow and add a custom redco patch panel for all inputs/outputs to be plugged into. That reduces the likelihood of interconnect cables of getting jacked up and makes it even more thoughtless during setup. :)
This is such an amazing video. I'm really thankful for all this information, taught me a lot!
I know this would be a long shot but would you be able to do a video on a budget version of this? or parts you'd recommend
Great video. Love everything in 1 rack. I would prefer to lose the drawer and add another 8 in and 8 out split and get those drums separated. But I have an old rack that came from the Four Tops that is all drawers! This video will help a lot of bands.
That's a really awesome rack, i especially love the automatic preset switching, and the playback unit in general!
One slight improvement you could make: wouldn't it be easier to have a labelled snake for the outputs to foh, so the soundguy doesn't need 8 individual cables and could just plug your snake straight into his stagebox? That would also safe you another unit height in the rack. Also noone except your guys would have to touch the rack at all! 😊
Absolutely--labeled output tails to FOH--because green/blue labels can't be read well at all on a dark stage.
That's. Fucking. Dope. By far, the best execution I've seen of this concept. The realtime midi switching is something of witchcraft! Also you totally sold me on one of those HX stomps. Fantastic job!
Thanks for going through this, that IEM setup is exactly what I need!
Damn trey didnt know u can sing so well
ruclips.net/video/kJfraNCvR8s/видео.html !
There literally is a more advanced, 1U rackmount version of that backing track device, with the midi output at the back, by the same company. Cymatic Audio uTrack24
The non rack version that you have is pretty cool, if you have it on your pedalboard.
We normally keep it by the drummer, he controls the playback. But once I get my hands on the Fractal FM3, i'll build myself an all-in-one pedalboard and I will probably place the Backtrack device there.
Btw, in your case, I recomment buying a low profile angled MIDI cable. It will look way less awkward at the front of the unit.
Thanks for the informative video. The live player and the power conditioner might be a good addition to my own IEM Rack.
However I'd like to point out that it is quiet hard to get a good IEM sound with mono tracks. Fortunately Behringer has two awesome products which enable each band member to have their own stereo IEM mix. For around a 1000 bucks more you can buy the Behringer Powerplay PD16-D and a Behringer Powerplay P16-M for each band member. Feed the PD16-D from the X32 mixers ultranet output and go from there to each of the P16-M units. Now each band member has the same 16 channels (selectable by choice in X32) on their own P16-M unit and can mix them together individually to their own liking.
Of course this means spending more money and managing more hardware but in my opinion an individual stereo IEM mix for each bandmember is definitely worth it.
Furthermore Behringer has awesome extension modules for the X32 which enabled me to add another splitter and tap the drum mics into the x32 as well.
Great video! Can you describe how you bounce out the MIDI program changes into an SMF for the cymatic lp16?
Great rig pal. I'm looking at stuff that would work well in a set up and tear down church for worship. Not seen anything like the Line 6 unit you put together there - solid!
Amazing idea becoming a practical reality! Kudos to you. =)
Any alternatives to the Cymatic Audio LP16??? They don't make it anymore :(
Just wondering, as I am getting ready to start building my live setup soon. How does this rig hold up in 2022? Have you upgraded in efficiency or is this about as efficient as it gets? Have you added any new gear to this?
use your own splitter setup and multi from rack to stagebox so after soundcheck you keep it hooked up. I mix multiple venues and I get more and more bands using this system, but miss the last crucial steps to be self contained. What if one of the many venue cables you ask is defective? get 2 behringer ms8000 and a decent labeled multi from the splitter to the front and maybe a labeled one as an extention from the stagebox to your splitter. Then you are set. Without these setups are a real pain because you're forcing big time consuming changes in the venues setup during changeover.
Definitely agree. These setups are very cool, but sometimes bands don't seem to think ahead or realize that goes into setting up this kind of rig on the FOH end. At my venue, we often have 5 or more bands playing 25 min sets with fast changeovers. A band will then come up to me 2 minutes before they are supposed to start and want me to unplug my entire stagebox and plug in their inputs (often with unlabeled cables, soundcheck, etc. So now when the next band plays, I have to eat into that band's setup time in order to unplug the last bands inputs, reattach all of my inputs, etc. Not to mention, now all of my preamp, eq, levels etc will have to be checked because I have no idea what signal you're going to be sending me from your rig.
So, always ask your sound engineer as soon as you arrive at the venue if it's viable to use this kind of rig and be ready to adjust if they say they aren't comfortable pulling apart their entire stagebox just for one band.
On cleaning up the rack in the back, I would use install XLR cable. Much thinner and lets you get that ish out the way.
we're currently building own all-in-one rack
xr18 air mixer
axe fx3 for guitar/bass/vocal stuff - yep, everyone will use it except drummer
shure wireless mic stuff
noname mono iem 4 channels - will be changed to sehnheiser when we got bit more money
and laptop with studio one and playback/click stuff - i think problem of forgetting laptop somewhere is exaggerated
probably i'll think about some playback player backup solution
so main sound is completely mixed except drums and going stereo to main console
Sadly it looks like the Cymatic Audio unit is discontinued and hard to find at least in Canada.
Thanks for the video! I love the concept of the "prewired-all-in-one-rack". But I'm still not sure to keep multiple racks for beeing more flexible since I play in different bands.
I love the "no-floor-boards" idea! But one question to all you string-players: How do you tune? I love my rack tuner, but then remote-muting is an issue. So do you use just clip-tuners? And how do you mute for cable unplugging? Digital wireless --> easy, else --> ???
Hi, I noticed you mentioned at 6:50 about running the HX stomps without a Cab sound on it. I am having the exact same dilemma at the moment where some venues are asking for us to use cabs. And obviously you mentioned that you run a line out without a Cab/IR on it as that causes the cabs to sound super muddy. But how do you deal with the signal running to your ears as I have noticed that if I remove the the Cab/IR from my Helix patch, the signal in my ears is super high FQ and has a lot of static. Is there a way to run one line to your ears with Cab/IR and another without Cab/IR to the cabs?
So question?
Could you do a video on how you set HX stomps and the LP-16 to do the changes in a song..
I am new to the midi game and I would like to do something similar for my team.
For micing my band's kit we use the Yamaha EAD-10 it's 1 microphone and it can hear all the drums around it! It uses our splitter to hear it and that's it!
Hello - at 25:38 you said that you run some things in through the behringer and back out to FOH, I don't understand why you don't run everything the same way ie. Either through the x32 or through the splitter 🤔
thats a killer idea!
i am not a drummer.
i have seen drums that have had microphones permanently mounted inside the shells and you just plug the mic lead into the shell that would solve the problem of having the house mixer micing up the drums and getting the drum sound to your in ears though you might need to have mixer in your rack
I am a drummer, and also a recording engineer. I'm working on refinishing and customizing an old set of drums, including internally mounted mics, with another drummer friend. We'll certainly be putting up a video on the process.
Bobb Harris sweet look forward to seeing it
This whole video is pure gold
Love it. I was working towards something like this. But have only an XR16
We're planning a new live rack. The question I have is: How do you get the drums into your iem? Do you also route all the drum mics to your splitter or does the FOH-mixer give you a stereo-sum-signal to insert in your iem mixer?
We are having the same thought process, we think we will route kick, snare (and maybe overhead/hi-hat) to splitter, the rest will go directly to FOH to the sound-guy. That will save up some input/output space as well. I do not know however if we need a separate antenna system for our IEMs, or if antennas hanging in the back of the rig is are ok.
@@sebastianklima you don’t HAVE to have antennas. Our sennheiser G4 units sound fine without. However, I will probably purchase an antenna system soon to help clean up some RF stuff we’re currently having.
In Ethereal Kingdoms we ask for a drums submix from FoH and route that back in, avoids fucking around with the drum mic setup which is not necessarily in our control on multi-band shows or when we don't bring our own tech.
Great work! This is a great solution.
Just a thought: being handy with a soldering iron, and making custom length cables for all of this would certainly reduce the cost (for those of us who don't have hookups with Hosa), and would basically eliminate the spaghetti-ness of the back - not to mention improve airflow through a rack that's as tightly packed as this one. Obviously, it would add to the time required to build the rack to make a bajillion cables, but your mileage may vary.
Dude, stereo in-ears are a gamechanger! Only thing i would maybe suggest to change (but I get that it would be a lot more complicated)...
This is fantastic. Glad you’re digging the stomp. Not too long ‘til you get the Revv model.
I wants it soooooooo baddddd
Nice rack! one suggestion - get a UPS instead of the "power conditioner" so that if power goes out momentarily, you don't lose any settings on your mixer or other units. If you really want, you could step up to an AR-1215 Voltage regulator, but they are pricey. Computer UPS for the win.
that's not a bad idea, I have one of those in my studio setup and it's pretty sick
@@treyxaviermusic Yep - especially with iffy power in some places... Audiopile also makes excellent rack cases and their shock mount rack is 24". Plus Mark & Liz are great people.
I mean cable is expensive if your not buying in parts. I can do 8m mic cable for $20 and get 5-8 years from them (connectors get recycled I get 10-15 years out of them). Were not even talking super expensive parts either here. neutrik XX series connectors are ~$5 a peace and cable goes for about $1-2 per meter. neutrik XX aren't even that expensive - the low end no name or Amphenol connectors retail for basically the same price and last nowhere near as long. Note pricing is in AUD - half the price if your in Pound or Euro or USD.
Brother make tube labels which can be printed on. highly recommended for adding labels and getting none of the tape glue on everything. neutrik also have colour rings which can help identify what is connected to what - there's a transparent one for labels as well. If you have to use tape then high end electrical tape or board tape - which is less likely to make everything sticky.
Doesn't the power amp get pretty hot in there, all squished up like that?
Can you explain the drums input ?
How do you mic and mix the drums before it goes into that single cable ?
The drum mics are connected to the main console of the venue, then the sound guy send the entire drum mix through a single aux send to the UE device
2 years down the line, I wonder whether the next step forward might be even more integrated systems that are completely laptop based. I KNOW, I KNOW. If you get it to run smoothly, you still need a backup. But hear me out.
You’ve got AD/DA conversion a bunch of times. Audio quality aside (with any decent gear, loss in audio quality is negligible), this introduces latency. Then you need multiple cables for MIDI switching. You’re connecting a load of hardware that is only there to perform SOFTWARE tasks.
Let’s say you have a really fast computer (not sure today’s M1 Max MacBooks would be up to the task). You could run as many Helix Native instances as you need, or literally any other amp sim, along with all the effects you want without the limitations of what’s provided by a hardware unit. Granted, for most people that’s not that relevant. But the possibilities would be great.
You could run the signals from wireless receivers to an interface, do all the processing, click track and backing track duties inside a single computer, and run that out through separate outputs from the interface to FoH. Heck, you might even be able to get away with doing your monitor mix inside a DAW. Although I’ll admit that for stereo IEM for an entire band you’d need such a large interface that you might as well get a rack mixer.
Finally you could expand that kind of system to also run lights at any point. Let’s say you have a few moments in your show where you’d like certain accents. You don’t need to bring the entire lighting (not possible for most touring bands). You could probably manage to bring a few LED pars that would help make your show that extra bit more memorable.
A system like this would still be pretty pricey, but what do you guys think?
I have a similar setup and really love the idea of the LP16, but I’m curious if you could’ve gone with the Cymatic Audio utrack x32 expansion card and do away with the LP16? That would also solve the weird shape and plug positions on the LP16. Pretty sure the expansion card is cheaper too! An added bonus with the utrack X32 is you’ll have the ability to multitrack record all 32 channels on a thumb drive as opposed to a stereo mix.
No, at least if you want to use the MIDI output you have to use either the LP16 or uTrack24. The X32 expansion card (which has been discontinued) doesn't have MIDI output support.
Nice setup. The only thing I would do differently is to have custom length cables or even small snakes made that are just long enough to get from your wireless receivers to the x32, and from your x32 to your In ear transmitters. That way, you don’t have to roll up excess cables.
I might be missing something obvious here, but I'm brand new to building racks and am in the process of building my first for my current band. Is the only purpose of the UE Sound Tap to split the drum mix into both the on-stage monitor and the X32? In essence, if you didn't need to split the signal back to the monitor, wouldn't you be able to disconnect the on-stage monitor and plug its XLR directly into the X32 and mix it from there? Assuming it's there because your rack is staying connected throughout the entire show, but wondering if that small change in between bands (plugging the XLR back into the stage monitor) would eliminate the need for the UE all together.
Thanks for the great upload, this was both very informative and interesting
Very nice setup. I have started to do similar setup for my band. My Question is How do you control the Cymatic LP16 live ? foot switch? midi Switch?
Have you made any updates to this rig?
No, all my live performance plans were shot by the pandemic and I haven’t had any reason to improve on it, hopefully that’ll change soon
"if the playback takes a shit" ..... LOL Love the solution given, super pimp brother!! 🤟😎❤️
Can you PLEASE help me us out with a tutorial on the correct settings for hx stomp to receive midi control like this. Pulling my hair out trying send or receive any midi with hx stomp and invective head! Should work but who knows!