I haven't finished the video but just to way in on the laugh thing: I laugh whenever other people laugh even if I didn't get the joke or the joke didn't register yet. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've genuinely laughed at something, had the implications of the joke register, and then got horrified by the fact that I just laughed at a very messed up joke. I'm not going to fully side either way on Will Smith's reaction, but I totally think it was possible he laughed with the crowd and then came to the concussion on this own that the joke was messed up immediately afterwards.
I'm the same way. I *also* get the urge to laugh when I'm upset, or feeling high levels of stress. And sometimes, I laugh when I'm *anticipating* a punchline, and it comes out before I actually hear the punchline.
I realized in the edit that the laugh could be any number of things I didn’t bring up (automatic response while still processing the full meaning, simply disconnected from his thought process, etc). In hindsight I wish I’d added a note to that effect.
Agreed. A part of me wonders if Chris Rock had immediately moved on instead of defending the joke as "an OK one" was accidentally letting it linger too long. To be clear I'm not condemning Rock with this, merely wondering if this moment it played a factor in how everything played out.
I had this theory too, because I can't count the number of times that I've had a reaction to something that is not the appropriate reaction in that situation. Sometimes it's because I'm dissociating and therefore I'm on autopilot, sometimes it's an anxiety reaction, and others I just plain won't understand the situation so I'll do my best guess at what the appropriate reaction is. Sometimes I get it right, many other times I won't, and I end up needing to apologise profusely.
One incident that involved violence, gender, class, race, celebrity status, comedians, AND disability? No wonder this thing became a bag of angry cats.
@@thalesanastacio760 No, it definitely isn't. It's a permanent medical condition that irreversably alters the body in ways that negatively impact the way a person is treated by others and feels about themselves, thus making their life more challenging than it would be without that condition. That's what a disability is.
@@gozerthegozarian9500 By that definition, having Myopia could be considered a disability. Being bald can affect one's sense of self worth, but this has more to do with standards of beauty than with real physical or mental impediments. So no,alopecia is not medically disabling, not everything that can cause emotional distress can be considered a disability.
@@thalesanastacio760 I'm not sure I agree. Gozer's definition seems pretty solid on social grounds, while you haven't provided a medical one to contradict it. Though I'm guessing you were alluding to the varied difficulty or inability to perform certain tasks that come with a disability. Would that be close to what you were saying? I just wanted to express that I thought the first two sentences were more convincing of your argument than the last, since it brought in an entirely new topic to a conclusion (whether or not everything that can cause emotional distress can be considered a disability, which is an entirely separate conversation to defining whether or not alopecia is a disability - if you take the central phrase out, alopecia is not medically disabling, and reread the sentence, you'll see what I mean) and it did seem condescending with the redundant double assertion and your use of the absolute (everything). Feel free to tell me to rack off. I just know the internet isn't kind to tone or intent most of the time and I thought that maybe there'd just been some crossed wires in communication here. I feel like you're both expressing halves of the whole rather than opposing points.
@26:57, some perspective from an amateur comedian: a common tactic used by comedians is called 'priming,' where a string of small jokes are let out in quick succession, which sets the mood of the room and gets people "primed" to laugh at a joke, sometimes even before you can process or absorb what was said in full. Will laughed because he was primed to do so in the moment. Jada's face made it sink in for him. Its somewhat why you are more prone to laughing at a film's jokes when you are watching it with friends as opposed to alone. The environment also can prime the audience.
This is what I feel happened. Maybe that he was so primed to laugh at a joke, he laughed when maybe he didn’t even quite take in what was being said, I’m sure we’ve all laughed at a joke we don’t quite get or has fully taken in what the joke was.
Theory: Will doesn't get the G.I. Jane reference (it's been 25 years) and does a fake laugh. Jada explains the joke to him. Will then goes and slaps Rock.
I watched that movie *a lot* (we had it on VHS) my father saw it as having a "badass feminist" message/representation - but for me it *illustrated something much more important:* How completely skewed, wrong, and corrupt the "don't ask don't tell" policy was (despite being painted as progressive anti-discrimination protocol) especially when a *straight* woman is railroaded with it for sitting at a beach for political reasons. If I could understand pre-pubescently that someone taking a photo of you while sitting around a fire with friends could cost you your job because of "how it looks" (like nothing, it literally looks like nothing) and destroy your career *true OR not* something was seriously wrong. --- Dinner conversations became much more interesting after that.
I love the fact that: ONE dude makes a tasteles joke. ANOTHER dude punches him. The internet goes: „Well, we need to talk about the question if the woman can be blamed somehow.“ Wtf?!
In Ireland, the slap was edited out as if it never happened. After the oscars, during the credits a voice came on to explain that the broadcasters didn't want to edit it out, but the footage they received from the academy had it cut out.
Yeah they broadcast live in the states or I assure you they'd of tried to hide it across the board so they got caught off guard in the moment like everyone there. I'm kinda surprised they went out of their way like that wow.. 🧡🦇
@@solemnlament9757 they probably think we live in thatched cottages and drive a 'pony and trap to mass on Sundays,' so what would we be doing with the internet? 🤣
I agree and while I don't think much of the Oscars, it's completely overshadowing those who did win for which it is a big thing. I'm a big fan of Coda myself but didn't expect it to get any awards, yet it won 3 and because of this incident nobody is really talking about it or the other winners.
@@Elwaves2925 Especially the one who won the documentary award He had to follow that mess. And not many really heard his heartwarming speech because everyone was buzzing over the slap
The Smiths are a narcissistic, toxic couple and they brought that to the Oscars. It was all about them because they live in a bubble of self-absorption.
The seconds we can't see might just have been his brain registering what had been said. Going from laughing to being mad because someone went from being funny to being insulting that quickly, it takes time to process.
And there is also another conversation going on…. I am a woman that has had hair loss since I was 16. I owned for over 30 years. Once people found I I did not have cancer many felt free to punch down. People and bosses thought I was not qualified to work because my hair was patchy. When I was a laid off after 30 years at a job I finally went and started wearing wigs out of fear that no one would hire me. I haven’t been made fun of at events and even on the train… Well, the point is that there are wig groups out their that are discounting Jada’s experiment because she is beautiful. Then there are others that say her alone is is fake because no one sees smooth skin on her head…that she still had enough hair to shave. Or that she should have bought a nice wig and shut up. Humanity is baffling at times.
Can’t help but feel this could have highlighted the awareness of people suffering from hair loss and something positive come out of this chaos. My son has alopecia and there’s not many options out there. I’m sorry for your situation. X
I too have had alopecia universalis for nearly 20 years and as I am in Scotland have been fortunate to have wigs funded by the NHS...for now. Most people have been okay and haven't had insults, though I was once called a "bald b**ch" in my place of employment, by a young woman who was a customer and I got no support. Jada looks amazing. Her bone structure and the shape of her face, I mean she looks good. I need wigs simply because I don't look good bald (apparently some alopecia sufferers are wanting to ditch the wig in support, I won't). I don't know about Jada's eyebrows etc, but her make-up will also be top line. I didn't realise she had alopecia. The joke was in bad taste, especially if Rock knew about her condition. However, I get why some people with alopecia would be irritated by the whole incident. Jada Pickett- Smith is privileged , is there a degree of envy within the community- yes. Also, if something is said to us, we're expected just to get on with it and wouldn't get away with slapping someone. Initially I thought this may raise the issue of alopecia, but now I fear the way some people are, this incident could be used as another weapon to attack us. I don't know how to feel about the whole thing. I may have alopecia, but I have also said stupid, tactless things.
Problem with people like that is not everyone sees through their persona, because they only target people that won't make them "look bad." They have to bring others down to lift their self up. Just ignore them don't let people like that dictate your life.
@@vintagesoup79 My best mate's big sister is in the same situation, except still on the path to getting her wigs funded by the NHS. She's had problems with addiction a lot of her life, so they're making it even harder than they already do in order to keep spending down. Keep making her go to dermatologists and other people to get her referral. It's very frustrating, because she's had it since she was a teenager (in her 40s now) and it was the result of childhood trauma, as was her addiction. She's been given so much grief about her appearance all her life, even recently at the hairdressers, it's enraging and heartbreaking. I really hope some good comes out of this for people with alopecia and everyone's understanding of the condition.
That's why the grievances towards someone's body that is out of their control are valid. But then she's a scientologist. But she's also a public figure that other people look to when they see black people on TV. It's a very intersectional issue.
I feel like the Oscars shouldn’t be about roasting people especially because it can go wrong like this, I wish they would just focus on celebrating movies
Nah we need more Ricky Gervais comedians roasting the whole crowd. If they react like how Will did then they need to grow up like who reacts to violence over a joke. Thats not how mature adults react in the real world. These celebs need to get out of their echo chambers like ugh
@@cowboysfanatic5613 In the real world, people do catch hands for cruel mockery all the time, especially if it's delivered repeatedly over the years - check Rock's history of shitting on the Smiths! And mature adults don't watch Ricky Gervais, people stuck in their 14-year-old-channer-edgelord-phase do.
@@gozerthegozarian9500 I am aware of another joke chris rock did years ago, but has he done something else against the smiths? And, no, u might not like Ricky Gervais, but to many his humour is pretty good, and he is actually a pretty clever guy who knows what he does
Personally, I think both Smith and Rock are as bad as each other for this. It was a tasteless, low punching comment (not a joke) but Smith also massively overreacted to it. He could have responded in any number of other ways. The shouting he did being one of them. What's really got to me (but doesn't surprise me) are the folks defending Rock, saying he deserves respect and held the high ground. He doesn't deserve any of that for the situation he created.
@@Elwaves2925 I totally disagree. Telling a bad joke is bad, assaulting someone for telling a bad joke is WORSE. It's not that complicated. Rock was doing his job, whether you agree with his content or not, he didn't do anything that warranted a physical assault on national television. I don't know why folks are having such a hard time condemning the violence. If a random person did what Will did they would have been arrested right on the spot. I'm not defending Rock's joke, I'm condemning Will's actions and defending Rock's right not to be assaulted for telling a bad joke.
@@coss1 You're right, it's not thatcomplicated. You are talking about the acts, which I agree the slap was worse. I was talking about the people themselves, which is why I said Smith and Rock, not words and a slap. Both did deplorable things, even though those things were different, so both are as bad as each other. Both of them should have known better. There is no excusing either of them.
This is just me, but I felt bad for Jada when so many people were laughing at her. It reminded me of when I wore glasses as a preteen girl in junior high, and two boys who were taller and bigger than me on separate occasions threatened to punch me in the face or break my glasses because they didn't like how I looked while wearing them. It honestly made me feel small and ashamed at the time, even though I needed them to see.
Pre-video thoughts: I’m surprised you even made a video about this Mid-video thoughts: “ok now that we covered the joke, let’s talk about…” ad* “Google career certificates” Post-video thoughts: I like how this video is more about the discourse surrounding the issue as opposed to it being about your personal take on it. It is very interesting to see how something like this plays out in real time, especially in the age of the internet and social media. I honestly don’t know how to feel about it either so, I appreciate you helping me process all this by watching you process this on camera. Overall great video 👍🏼
I swear these folks are acting like Will murdered ten folk like it's not that serious 🤣 They both apologized and folks on twitter damn near traumatized about all this
Hi Vera! Thank you so much for such a well-thought-out and well-organized conversation, as always. Whenever I begin thinking about something, you’re pretty much the first person on RUclips I’d like to watch and listen to, because I think you are genuinely very, very thoughtful and kind.
I'm curious is Chris Rock wrote the joke himself or if it was pitched to him by the people who write jokes for the Oscars. That's not to make excuses for him since he still agreed to tell the joke, but if it turns out someone else wrote the joke, it'll be interesting to see if the Oscar staff writers get any backlash for this
Even if they did write it and there was backlash, I personally don’t think we will hear about it in much detail. Mainly because that’s behind the scenes stuff. They could simply change who the writers are for the next Oscars and we won’t hear a thing except perhaps hearing that they are different which could become speculative in itself because I certainly don’t know how the Oscars are planned, getting a new writing team every time might be the norm.
If will had acted right they might have but now that he assaulted the guy I don’t think they will back down about the joke, that would vindicate him to some stupid people and that’s not good
I'm very uncomfortable with the blame that is landing on Jada Pinkett Smith. A lot of this is born of past trauma on my end, as a cis woman who was once conventionally attractive. There have been occasions in which a man has hurt my feelings, and another man I knew has decided, without my asking, to defend my honor. Let me assure you, the woman is always blamed. I'm blamed once, when I cried and a friend saw, and physically attacked the man who had hurt my feelings. The narrative became that I had sent someone to attack that person, and decades later, that's still the narrative. So, I really hate this dinosaur trend of a man defending "his woman." This is all coming back on her. I've seen such ugly things said about her and her marriage, such hateful things toward her. I feel I've said more than it's my place as a white lady to say, already. I have more empathy toward Jada than I perhaps have a right to feel.
I see where you’re coming from, however I feel in this instance there’s something inside me that feels different. Since Jadas RTT the stuff she’s said and admitted to doing and the way she’s spoken about literally grooming a young, vulnerable man with sexual intentions and the way she (imo) has disrespected her husband and marriage has sat so wrong inside me. She oozes toxicity in my eyes.
@@ljh8264 That's just speculation I'm not willing to participate in. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just going to be in the same camp as Vera here and say I do not know anything about it.
@@angiep2229 I’m not sure if you’ve watched much red table talk (I wouldn’t recommend, most of it is extremely uncomfortable) but what I’ve said is not speculation, the way she spoke about August, a young man at the time she met him, half her age, the SAME age as Wills first son was incredibly disturbing and the way she looked into her husbands eyes while he cried broke my heart. I practically fully agree with most of what you’ve said but imo Jada is a different story. End of the day we don’t really know what goes on behind closed doors, but the peek we’ve had in really upsets me. People saying “this is black love”, black men stand up for their women. No, No i don’t claim that shit. Jada, like myself is a grown ass women, Chris Rock was not threatening her, she’s sat high and mighty in her chair for years. If she had a problem you bring that shit to his face with your words like a strong female. Don’t get your husband to run around like a man child and embarrass himself resorting to violence as if he doesn’t have the vocabulary to tell someone they done fucked up and what they said was not acceptable. Sorry for the rant, this just hits close to home I think.
@@ljh8264 I think Will is coping with the fact that he will never be Tupac to Jada and he must PROVE his worth to her. She had said plenty of humiliating things about Will and their marriage all on her own. She is beautiful but I don’t get she is that beautiful on the inside which could just be unhappiness in a marriage that has now about money and protecting assets. I sense no love there anymore. Hope I’m wrong.
What is being lost in all this discussion is Will and especially Jada's feelings about what happened on that stage. He talked a little about his mindset in the speech he gave afterward but most people do not know about his history with Chris Rock, and with people constantly disrespecting him and his family. This may have simply been the last straw event. I wasn't surprised by what he did because if you've followed Smith's career for any length of time then you realize this was the culmination of a lot of events and decisions by him.
I find it hard to believe that a presenter at the Oscars in a similar sphere of celebrity to Jada's husband, and given the documentary involvement you mentioned, hasn't heard her being vocal about alopecia. My ultimate thought is that the joke was absolutely punching down, Will's decision to defend his wife was correct, but Will's choice to get physical was not.
Fully agree with everything except the “he surely must have known” take. Out of all of the Smiths, I follow Jada and Willow almost exclusively because I tune into Red Table Talk - and I didn’t know. I truly didn’t. She looks so outrageously stunning with her hair this way that I always just assumed it was a stylistic choice. I was blown away that I somehow missed that in all of the years I’ve followed them. Some people just simply didn’t know
It's weird cause the response isn't split by left and right. Its split within. You've got right wingers split defending the joke as free speech or the violence as protecting family/being a man. And you've got the left split defending neither of them as the joke was disrespectful and the reaction was extreme... or defending the violence against the joke because of consequences. I've seen some say he did the "correct alpha male thing" and some disgustingly blaming jada saying she "emasculated him" (typical they blame the woman who sat and did nothing). The responses have been so jumbled. I'm very much of the stance that I assumed would be common sense.... The joke was out of line and unnecessary targeted at someone with a medical condition (I very much believe he knew about the alopecia) but the reaction was cowardly, and extremely wrong. And you can defend family without bring violent.
Yeah it’s wild. I agree they were both in the wrong and like physical violence because you don’t like what someone said not right. You could make an argument that this situation physical violence was justified but that sets a dangerous precedent because who decides what justifies that level of reaction
It's mostly been comedians who are defending Chris cause we like to defend everything comedy and will always take the stance of comedy. Comedy>Everything else
1. What kills me is that people are more upset about a slap than they are about Jada being disrespected by her hair/disease that she's been opened about. 2. I feel like certain groups of people need to shut up about this situation because its way more complex than just a "oh it's a joke", "he's a comedian", etc. Its deeper due to it being a black issue/black women always being butt if a joke especially with their hair/bodies, a past beef between Rock & the Smiths, as well as men feeling the need trying to protect their wives/partners.
Fair. I will say that the people who were telling the LGBTQ community that "Oh its just a joke" "He's a comedian" a few months ago when it was about about a black comedian making up a story (I say making up because I can find no evidence that she committed suicide because of bullying by trans people on twitter. All account from those close to her was due to her potentially losing custody of her child and anti-trans assholes bullying her) that got actual trans people harassed and abused online (Jessie Gender if I recall right was getting yelled at online when trying to discuss stuff because of Chappelles special) are now totally against jokes and have flipped 180 degrees. It just feels an awful lot like "Rules for thee but not for me" about comedy. They are alright with abusive jokes and harassment when its THEM sling it out but the moment a joke turns on them its suddenly oh to far and how could you. I am sorry but if making jokes about everyone else is A-OK then jokes about you need to be as well.
At the end of the day, this was a multimillionaire celebrity slapping another multimillionaire celebrity, and I have a hard time getting too upset about it on a visceral level. But it’s still an interesting event in that it speaks to a lot of different issues. And I don’t think you can get away from trying to understand the mental state of the participants in a situation like this, but of course there is a line that should be avoided in such conversations. I’m trying to look at it less from the standpoint of ‘why’ it happened, but rather from the standpoint of whether it would have happened if one or more variables were different. As I think about it and ask questions about it, I’m trying to avoid judging any of the participants categorically, because I don’t think that’s really productive or illuminating. Again, they’re wealthy celebrities, and they just live in a different world than I do. For me it’s more about ‘what does this incident say about society itself’? Especially the intersectionality of race, wealth, and class status. If it had been Ricky Gervais instead of Chris Rock making the joke, would Will Smith have slapped him? In other words, was the nationality and/or race of the comic a factor in Smith’s response? Also, would Will Smith have been treated differently by the event staff if he had struck a white or non-American comedian? Was that calculus part of Smith’s split-section decision to physically strike Rock? Did Smith realize that slapping Rock was something he could get away with because both he and Rock are American and/or Black? Smith sat right back down, as if he knew that there would be no immediate repercussions to his action. Again, we can’t know what his actual mental state was, but these are questions to think about in general, as a reflection of the structure of society. And none of this touches upon ‘why’ Smith struck Rock, because that’s not really the question. At one point or another, I’m sure we’ve all wanted to strike someone for something they’ve said, and some of us have actually done so, but we all refrain from doing so at times. So what was the thing that took Smith from wanting to strike Rock for whatever reason, and actually doing so? I also wonder if Smith had already accepted his own award prior to the joke, would he have responded this way? How much of his reaction was due to his already heightened emotional state regarding the award he was nominated for? I also wonder how much the cosmic microwave background trauma of the last few years and ongoing current events contributed to all of this. I know a lot of us are on the razor’s edge right now. I don’t know how much that factors into all of this, but I would be very surprised if it didn’t factor in at all.
See, I had that conversation with my family and that is precisely what bothered us. The intersection of race, wealth, social status. and we added physique. Because of that, I can't imagine Will Smith hitting Tom Cruise nor Jason Momoa (known for his stupid jokes) but maybe Kevin Hart (shown in the video). As Vera said, we are not in Will Smith's head so these are just random speculations but Chris Rock is a whole caste lower because he is a comedian, not even a bona fide actor. Will Smith dominated in all four categories so it was relatively safe to assume that the consequences would not be too dramatic. Indeed, he refused to leave the premises and was not forced out; no charges were pressed; and although he may not attend the ceremony for the next decade, he can still receive Oscars. Instead of Jada Pinkett Smith controlling her husband, maybe it is all the years he spent as a big star in this type of environment where there are no consequences that made him the man he is today.
Thank you for making this video. Social media has been hard since this happened. I really appreciate you breaking everything down in such an unbiased manner. Love your earrings💙💙
I'm a huge fan of nuanced conversation. It's why I stay away from Twitter. So thank you, as always, for covering so many diverse angles on this. And, just t be clear, I did stay and watch this video all the way to the end :)
The thing about setting the line of what you can joke about at a medical condition is that invites people to speculate on what might or might not be a medical condition, and people will and do make judgments about which medical condition they think is worthy of protection. In fact, one discussion you missed is the debate as to whether alopecia qualifies as a disability or not. Disability advocates mostly say it is. The line has to be consent, you do not joke about another person's body without their consent. Buying tickets to a comedy event that is known to include this kind of comedy could be a form of consent. This is essentially her husband's work event and fame is not consent.
I am curious to hear your thoughts on Will Smith's speech, because there was a lot to unpack there, starting with how he called himself the protector of the actresses who played his wife and daughter, and then him breaking down and making a whole speech about being an arbitor of love and peace (I'm paraphrasing heavily here)... I feel his speech, while from a genuine place, pointed at a lot of very uncomfortable things and reminded me why King Richard made me so uncomfortable.
See, I can get the other angles plenty. I’m just coming at it as someone who was bullied as a nerdy kid, until I finally snapped and bit someone in middle school, earning myself an ISS for the trouble. Thing is, I refuse to be guilty over it bc… it got the bullies to stop. I was always told “oh kill ‘em with kindness”, “turn the other cheek”, etc and so forth, y’all know the drill. But it didn’t work, and the teachers did nothing and I’d had enough. And they stopped. So seeing someone stand up for his wife and slapping someone for her? If someone did that for me, I’d have married them tbh. Would’ve done a lot of things for that kind of defense.
Thank you for the nuance in your review of the conversation around this incident. Because more then one thing can be true at once and people seem to ignore that.
You’re right about this derailing other conversations and I suspect that’s a good thing for the academy. I agree it makes no sense but at the time it did feel staged, particularly because WS had been laughing at the joke. So I didn’t pay much attention to it until after. During the broadcast I was more infuriated by the constant stream of misogyny from the presenters - yes, even from the women. But no one is talking about that and I think they dodged that bullet thanks to the slap. On which, FWIW, I agree with your friend. CR was asking for it and WS shouldn’t have done it.
People, when they're trying to process something in a social setting will sometimes look to people, usually, their loved ones, to check their reactions before settling into their own response. Will was probably automatically laughing while processing the joke, and sorting out his own response. In other words, the laugh wasn't a genuine reaction it was automatic, his reading of Jada's reaction was him in the middle of processing the joke, then afterward he gave his genuine response.
I'm on Twitter and that's how I "watched" the Oscars and how I saw "The Slap" (and immediately wasn't sure if it was a bit). My take is that it had had an all out negative effect: It definitely put Jada's name in EVERYONE'S mouth, especially other comedians who TORE into her and him. So there goes the whole "defending her honor" thing. Also there were MULTIPLE ways and TIMES to address Rock's joke and still "defend" your woman, that would've benefited everyone. This was the WORST option and had the opposite effect. Chris Rock's current tour just went up in ticket prices. So Chris' jaw may be sore but his wallet is gonna be FULL and the Smith's just get to add more of that public abuse on their plate. And as you highlighted in the beginning, it overshadowed some damn amazing achievements. I had to scour Twitter to see who won the supporting actor awards. I thought it was funny that once again, West Side Story makes history in the Supporting Actress category and how Marlee Matlin who made history being the first deaf woman to win an Oscar, stars in a nominated film where her co-star makes similar history. I didn't see ?uestlove's acceptance speech for Summer of Soul till the following day. So many things just got buried under THAT.
I saw one comment claiming Will Smith "could have killed" Chris Rock. That's a weird escalation! A slap is not nice but is generally non-lethal; it's not like Rock even looked like he was in danger of being knocked off the stage. So I couldn't help but wonder if THAT take was coming from the "black dudes are scary" mindset...
Definitely an interesting conversation 🤔 Even amongst my friends opinions have vastly varied, and varied in ways that honestly surprised me. So yeah this conversation about the conversation has definitely been a welcome way to help me clear my head. Thank you 😊
One additional comment is that it seems that Chris Rock hasn't commented on the situation and neither put any complaints towards Will Smith, which makes me believe that he realized that he might have crossed a line with his joke. Or at least, that's how I see it.
Or, he figured that Will Smith already screwed himself over and that pressing charges or telling him to kindly bugger off were unnecessary moves since a good chunk of the internet held him in contempt.
The fact that a black man who is aware of the history of how hair is weaponized against black women made a joke at her expense and some people are BLAMING her for it is making my head spin. Yes violence is bad, yes toxic masculinity, yes comedians and free speech, all great conversations to have. But everyone is asking questions and very few are arriving at an answer that involves a culture of black women being the butt of the joke. Jada was the original victim (for lack of a better word) of the situation and has somehow either been completely ignored or treated like an instigator.
I mean, I don’t think she could telepathically tell when he got up what he was about to do. But besides that why was that her responsibility? She married a grown up. She shouldn’t have to police his behavior.
Some points to be considered. Asserting that Chris Rock deserved it is an advocacy of corporal punishment. Will Smith did not "protect" or "defend" his wife by his action as the offensive incident had already occurred. He exacted revenge through violence. Understanding his reaction does not constitute condoning it. In most workplaces (at least in the UK) his action would result in instant dismissal. The Academy Award is supposed to be for an acting performance not for personal good behaviour.
In my opinion, the joke was trash, and the physical assault was way out of line. Will Smith shouldn’t have been allowed to waltz on back to his seat after that. I do not believe for a second a tasteless one-liner, punch-down joke warranted a rounded smack in the mouth like that. I personally think it’s embarrassing behaviour. Then to accept his award claiming “love will make you do crazy things”? I just can’t get behind anybody justifying it. I’ve even seen people say it doesn’t “count” as assault because Will didn’t hit him hard enough? And others claiming that “action = reaction, so Chris Rock deserved that and more”. I’m truly baffled by the response this has received by such a seemingly huge number of people.
I agree that Rock's comment didn't deserve the reaction it got from Smith, who massively overreacted. However, I also think they're both as bad as each other for this. Regarding your second paragraph, I've been reading more of the opposite - people defending Rock and saying he deserves respect for how he handled it and continued with the show. Rock's comment was disgusting and he doesn't deserve respect for the situation he created. Neither does Smith for his actions.
@@Elwaves2925 I disagree, a tasteless joke at someone’s appearance is classless, but assault is illegal. They’re not as bad as each other I’m my opinion, not even close. I’ve seen some comments saying they respect Rock for carrying on as if he wasn’t just smacked. I don’t know how I’d feel or if I’d be able to carry on as normal if somebody just physically assaulted me on the world stage.
@@KRLY359 I don't consider it a joke. It's an insult, whether he knew about her condition or not. You see, I'm not talking about the acts themselves when I say they're as bad as each other. The two actions aren't directly comparable, so one of them being illegal isn't a factor in my thinking. I did also say that Rock didn't deserve the reaction he got from Smith, indicating that one act was worse than the other. It's the two people involved that I find as bad as each other as both of them did deplorable things. However, I get that others have different views on this, which is fine, at least for those that have reasonable views like yours. 🙂
@@Elwaves2925 Yes to be fair, let’s say it’s not a joke, I don’t find it funny either, that still doesn’t warrant a physical assault. Both are wrong, but at different degrees I think. Thank you! 😊 just trying to be as reasonable as I can be, it seems so simple to me, but maybe not so much to others
@@KRLY359 It's fair to try and be reasonable as it's not as clear cut as some like to make it, a factor that the video above often points out. I'm also in another conversation with someone who is clearly a fan of Rock and their bias is showing. My very first reaction to hearing about this was good for Smith, then I thought about and realised it wasn't so straightforward. Leading me to my current view.
My personal feelings is it was an understandable but ridiculously out of place reaction to a bad joke. I can't believe the narrative spiral from what was just a ridiculous celebrity moment and unbelievable live TV.
SCREW the Oscars. People are acting like it's HALLOWED GROUND... It's not. The Oscars are a mere advertising mechanism for rich people. If this happened in a club, people wouldn't be clutching pearls all over the place. Oh, and Chris Rock HIMSELF doesn't care very much, so...why should everyone else?? lol. He didn't even press charges.
If you poke the bear (with a stick of-course) expect the bear to retaliate, even if it is a circus bear. I agree the joke was bad taste, Jada has a shaved head for longer then a trend, Chris knew Jada & Will, he knew, but won't acknowledge this because he now is the victim. Also Chris let it go, for the most part, media & the Academy have not; this is telling as well.
I think the most reasonable take I've seen about this is 'If it were in a pub, you'd kick Will Smith out for being violent, but after he got down the road, you'd tell Chris Rock to leave as well. You'd probably serve Smith again if he apologised, but you'd probably give serious consideration to barring Rock' I don't know if it's just the environment I live in, but if I made a joke like he did, I'd expect to get in an argument at the very least, if not get hit.
A note that I think matters: Chris Rock SHOULD HAVE known. As a comedian, he should do research before making any jokes. Like. That's a part of his job. Yes, I understand that he can't fully prepare for everything about the audience. But if he's going to say something, he should have at least attempted to find all the information available about it first - and Jada Pinkett Smith's post about her alopecia has no doubt been liked by thousands of her fans. I imagine she's discussed it elsewhere, too, but you get the picture. This information was readily available.
Thank you for your even-handed coverage of this incident. I had the same thought processes on this, because I try to see what happened from each person's perspective to try to make sense of the motivations of those involved. It's about understanding what went on & learning from it rather than stoking the fire for more drama, views or to make judgement unfairly. This is the commentary I want to see online - a diplomatic, thoughtful response to what is a highly emotive subject
I feel that Will Smith shot himself in the foot here. I could be wrong be I think if he expressed his distaste for the joke in a less violent way the discourse would be aimed less on whether the violence was ok (which I personally think wasn’t) and more about how much Chris Rock was a jack ass for making fun of someone’s insecurities and medical condition.
Honestly, while I agree that there were better options than physical violence, what really annoys me about the way people go about saying that is that they focus so hard on one man being justifiably angry but losing his temper in an unjustifiable way and causing very minor temporary harm to one other person as being the story to discuss, and not the real issue of how we've so cravenly normalized irresponsible insult comedy like this to the point you have people defending the joke. Sure, after the catharsis of seeing someone who talks shit actually getting hit for it, it's easy to say "oh, he shouldn't have done that, it sets a bad precedent, yadda yadda", and there's a good argument to be made from that, but if you're saying you can't relate to that anger at all and that it reflects on Smith's character overall that he publicly lost his temper once, that... baffles me. If it becomes a pattern with him or people in general, maybe then that'll be an issue. But the degree of vitriol I've seen in even a cursory glance at comments about this feels undeserved to me, especially when paired with defenses of the joke itself or weird rumors about the Smiths' relationship status that shouldn't be the business of keyboard warriors. Ultimately, while I can agree that Smith should have found a better way to handle it, that doesn't absolve Rock from his joke, whether he knew about the alopecia or not, and the whole thing should not be used as a scapegoat to stop us from having a conversation about what "comedy" does and doesn't justify. So while neither party was in the right I still personally find Rock's actions far more odious than Smith's, and the fact that so many people see it the opposite way troubles me more than any "precedent" or "chilling effect" Smith might have caused. Because to be frank, if Smith had taken the moral high ground approach I really doubt anyone would have gotten the message that jokes like that are harmful. Whether that would be preferable to people now deliberately attacking that message the way we're seeing now... I can't really say. Ultimately, I really don't think it sullies my long-term image of Smith the same way it does for Rock or his defenders. Nobody's perfect in how they react to situations on the fly like this; maybe we should be judging the situation that led up to it more than the specific overreaction.
Violence is not the answer. Even if he knew about her condition and still made the joke, yes, it would be in very poor taste. Yes, you don't had freedom from consequences to your actions, but bad jokes do not give someone a free pass to be physically violent with someone. It just doesn't, I don't care how poor taste they are.
I don’t believe the Academy should revoke the award. Chris is not even pressing charges. The Academy has not revoked awards given out to folks actually convicted for much worse.
Yeah. I agree. That aspect what makes little sense to me. Like he was still going to win the award that was going to happen regardless of if the joke/slap was part of it. The only reason why I can think of to revoke it is as part of their damage control. But you have other (possible) more effective methods such as banning Will Smith from coming to the award ceremony in person in the future.
Honestly, it's so refreshing to just see anything resembling a nuanced take on this whole thing, as well as someone pointing out the specifics of what we did and didn't actually see - as was said in the video, the extent to which a lot of people are talking in definitive terms about what they think must have occurred in the few seconds we didn't see is fairly worrying. Pretty much the only thing in this video that I do disagree with is the notion that Chris Rock may not have known about Jada Pinkett-Smith's medical condition. Obviously I don't know for sure what Chris Rock did or didn't know, but speaking as an actor, people in this industry absolutely talk to each other *a lot* and about a lot of different subjects. And people only open up more the higher up the "lists" (i.e. A-list, B-list, etc) you go in terms of who is the subject of discussion - names may not be used at that point but it will generally very quickly become clear one way or another who's being talked about. It's been that way since pretty much the birth of American cinema, if not earlier - you simply cannot keep a secret for very long in this industry unless you literally never open up to anyone even remotely about your personal life...at which point you've sabotaged your career because no one wants to work with you since you're so closed off. If someone knows something about someone else, that information will spread. Things will often remain within the industry itself and not necessarily reach the general public (sort of the work equivalent of "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"), particularly if the information is particularly scandalous and/or involving someone particularly powerful (at least until that reaches a tipping point) or the information is clearly to be considered private, but within the industry itself? Any kind of gossip or information is often considered free game. Given that the three people involved in this incident are all well-known, I do find it incredibly difficult to believe that Chris Rock had absolutely no degree of knowledge to speak of regarding Jada Pinkett-Smith's reason for shaving her head. At best, I could potentially believe that he'd maybe heard from someone else and dismissed it as a bit of unfounded gossip (which also tends to be spread around a lot in this industry). But I personally find it too hard to believe that he had absolutely no idea whatsoever at the time he made the joke. Having said that, of course I can't possibly know for sure what he did or didn't know - it's just too big a stretch for me to personally believe that he didn't. As to where I stand on the whole thing? Not that it particularly matters, but I'm pretty much firmly in the camp that the joke was an utterly tasteless one that shouldn't have been said (yes, he had the right to say it but the right to say something doesn't mean you should just speak with absolutely no filter regarding time, place, general appropriateness, etc), and Will Smith hugely overreacted by escalating the situation to physical violence. The joke warranted a roll of the eyes and possibly a comment made later on finding it inappropriate but nothing more than that. Ultimately, as I see it, neither of them were in any way "in the right".
Chris Rock himself has said that he didn't know about it. I have no reason to not believe him. Half my family is in the industry and none of them knew about it before the event. Jada's not actually working in films and TV much, except for her show, so there isn't any reason to know or talk about it.
@@eshbena Well, like I said, obviously no one can know for sure, including you or me. I just do find it incredibly difficult to believe that he didn't. *If* he genuinely didn't know at all...I still find it remarkable, but it certainly puts things into a new perspective. However, I will say that being completely cynical about it (and this doesn't reflect my own opinion, btw, it's just the inevitable counter-argument to not having any reason to disbelieve his statement on the matter), it absolutely suits him after the fact to say that he didn't know about her medical condition since admitting he did or attempting to leave it completely up to speculation is basically tantamount in the court of public opinion to admitting that he knowingly and willingly weaponised a woman's medical condition against her for the sake of a joke that (let's face it) was of middling humour at best. That's not exactly something anyone with a shred of decency would want to admit to. But again, that's just pure speculation and I'll admit contributes to the problem expressed in this video. None of us will ever know exactly what he knew or didn't know at the time and while I'll trust his word on the matter, there's no denying that it's still more than a little murky. I should say that I generally do like Chris Rock. He's close to the knuckle with regards to his comedy a lot of the time but he's tended to refrain from complete tastelessness. But there's no denying that this *was* a tasteless joke when combined with the fact that the subject was, whether intentionally and knowingly or not, a woman's medical condition. And unless/until more information regarding the situation comes to light, I will stand by my opinion that ultimately neither he nor Will Smith come out of this whole thing in a particularly good light. The joke shouldn't have been made, and the reaction shouldn't have escalated to physical violence. Both men are in the wrong, though each for different reasons.
To me this framing comes across as equivocating the two. And that's a problem. Because, while yes it's true that they're both in the wrong... What Will Smith did IS worse, than what Chris Rock did. A world where we make equivocations or excuses for violence begets us more violence. Remember, it's up to all of us to create culture. And short of self defense, violence should not be accepted or tolerated.
@@viewsandrates I'm sorry that it came across as though I was equivocating the two; I've read my comment back and realised it seems as though that's what I was doing and that honestly wasn't my intention at all. I agree with you on all points with regards to your comment. I do think that what Will Smith did made him the worse of the two since, as I said in my original comment, all the joke really warranted with regards to a negative response was making it obvious via a facial expression that he felt the joke was out of line and then *at most* a comment later either to Rock privately or on social media about the inappropriateness of it (really, the comment wouldn't even necessarily be needed anyway because...not everyone has to find every joke funny and, to be honest, this joke just wasn't that funny regardless of the issues surrounding the alopecia due to how outdated the reference was). Jada Pinkett-Smith's reaction (that we saw) was pretty much the perfect way of handling it at the time: making the displeasure obvious without escalating things. It certainly in no way warranted a slap and shouting swear words up to the stage. But my overall point is that just because what Will Smith did was worse than what Chris Rock did, that doesn't automatically mean that Rock did absolutely nothing wrong. As the video says, a lot of the discussion is being held in very binary terms of "if one of them was wrong, then the other was in the right" which, in my opinion, just isn't the case - both men did wrong; in very different ways and on very different levels, yes, but still ultimately neither should have done what they did. Rock, whether he knew it at the time or not, created an uncomfortable situation by making an unnecessary and tasteless joke that, whether he knew it or not, revolved around mocking evidence of a medical condition. Smith then unnecessarily made the situation a lot worse than it *ever* needed to be by escalating it to violence when it should have just been brushed aside in the moment and dealt with peacefully at a later date. Smith was undoubtedly the worse of the two with regards to his behaviour but neither man is wholly "in the right" here. I'm honestly not meaning to equivocate the two with regards to the level of wrong they each did.
Dear all non black people, Just because you see a black person laugh doesn't mean we like the joke or that we think its OK. A laugh can be a sign of discomfort and anger.
My mom used to say “If you did something wrong and I’m laughing it’s not because it’s funny, it’s because I’m angry”. Not the healthiest response but as a kid I knew if I got in trouble and my mom was laughing I should be worried.
Something I don't believe you touched very much on (and apologies if you or someone else in the comments mentioned it and I missed it) is Black hair and how it is often weaponized against Black women. Beauty standards for women, which are already stifling to begin with, are traditionally Eurocentric (at least in this country). Black women can feel a lot of pressure to get expensive hair treatments or wigs to conform to white femininity and those that wear their natural hair texture or protective hairstyles are often mocked, judged, or punished. Any discussion or joke about a Black woman's hair (or lack thereof) is going to inherently have some misogynoir wrapped into it--something that Chris Rock should have known since he made a documentary about Black hair in part so his daughter wouldn't feel ashamed of hers. I'm not a Black woman, so I have no personal experience on this, but a lot of the reactions I've seen from Black women don't have a lot of sympathy for Rock (while also acknowledging that hitting him was not OK) and they are using the incident as an opportunity to discuss the misogynoir they regularly experience.
My sense is that CHRIS felt like he deserved the slap, and his response to it was appropriately humble. Will definitely let his anger get the better of him and maybe wasn't the best look, but doesn't make him the worst person ever.
This is a tough one, because I understand both sides, those who agree with Smith and those who think it utterly wrong. NOTE: Me UNDERSTANDING it is not the same as me APPROVING it. I don't approve of this kind of behavior. What I do understand is Smith's frustration at these so called jokes on the expense of his wife and how it can reach a limit at one point. And I completely understand why people would still support Smith, but I do hope that he also does get some punishment for it, because television should not support violence in public. If he got in a fight with Chris Rock at his house and no one saw it, that's their problem, but publicly it's not a good idea and very inappropriate behavior. That's my opinion on the matter. You can agree, you can disagree, that's totally fine. I just wanted to say my opinion on the matter.
It is her problem. Reach a limit? They are both rich, privileged people. Do you think other people, other black men too, get to reach a limit? I have been harassed a lot my whole life and have done things I am ashamed of to this day. But I don't justify them and my anger was MINE no one elses. No one else have any right to remove my agency like that. HIS limit was reached? HE is not the one with the illness.
@@anne-zh2kd I'm not going to discuss this too much. I'm not familiar with what played and I find it difficult to find the right words to give my opinion.
This incident has left me all kinds of sad and bewildered, since I like all parties involved. This is the only video I’ve watched on this, and only because I’m already a subscriber and it came up on my feed. Thank you for your usual balanced take and acknowledgment of biases including your own. If only there were more RUclipsrs like you.
If you want to see another couple of balanced and compassionate takes on the incident, I liked Grace Randolph's thoughts (Beyond the Trailer)... and T1J's thoughts.
@@ghlmk5931 Cool. I'm glad. It's amazing to me how sometimes people are just locked in their own anger and unwilling to do any thinking at all. Other people, on the other hand, are able to be constructive. It's also interesting to me that some people can actually be really angry, and yet still be able and willing to listen to other points of view. Many people seem to have zero ability to do this.
You said everything that needed to said, well done. Ultimately I do think that the slap itself and the shouting should have never happened, their were so many other ways to handle that situation.
The social media discussion mill usually works this way in that whatever is supposed to be the topic isn't really the topic, but rather functions more as a prompt for an improv scene where setting things in motion is more important than where things actually end up going. Usually, people don't notice this because they have an instant reaction to whatever the topic is and march straight into battle. They'll often even dismiss people who question whether the social media discussion is valuable or outright call it silly because they happen to feel the topic itself matters, but just because a topic matters or is serious doesn't mean that any discussion branching off of it does or is.
I'm really glad I clicked on this video. like I was hesitant at first when I got the notfi about this vid but it's really refreshing to see a nuanced conversation from a non-black person about this, bc so far , the only nuanced takes I saw didn't come from white folks, but as always, Vera, You make my day with how you approach difficult topics, and while I don't always agree with your points, but I always appreciate them, so thank you for making this video and others.
As a polyam person, the discourse about Will and Jadas relationship being inherently cheating and toxic has been uhhh… not very fun lol. Nice to know how a large number of people would think of me and my relationships if they knew. It’s like “well i guess I prolly won’t tell you about me then.” And that always sucks. Not saying their specific relationship and communication aren’t toxic, I generally haven’t done much research on them specifically. But there’s def a LOT of people framing the relationship as toxic specifics because of non monogamy.
As usual, I like your thoughtful video. It is really important to see everyone's point of view and not just take a side, find a scapegoat and hate anyone who thinks differently. My humble perspective: growing up in the Caribbean, I had a bit of a crush on the Prince of Bel Air turned Bad Boy. Then came out Bad Boy 2 and, in the interviews, Will Smith made discriminatory comments on Haitians and expressed that he despised poor people in general, while in the movie, US police officers illegally chased a suspect to Cuba and ran over a slum in the process, destroying poor people's houses. At the time, my mom, my brother and I (Haitian immigrants having fled to Martinique with next to nothing) watched in disbelief. My little brother even temporarily gave up on his high-top hair cut. This year, Will Smith got an Oscar for playing the role of Richard Williams and said in his teary speech that it had inspired him to protect his family. "King Richard" is a movie about two amazing female athletes in a family that includes five high-achieving straight-A sisters and a strong, hard-working mother, but the movie is framed entirely from the perspective of the one man. It focuses not on the achievements of Venus and Serena Williams but on their father's strength of character, in a biased and partial way, without developing his shortcomings (for example, among his several wives, Serena and Venus's mother divorced him for alleged domestic abuse; and he had several other children whom he abandoned). Possibly like Will Smith, Richard Williams seems to have always planned to become rich and to have valued wealth particularly. On the other hand, Chris Rock has talked about being bullied in the past. That made him an easy target for violence, but I agree that making the documentary "Good Hair" should have also taught him that that joke could be taken as bullying. It seems he did not write it himself but he could have chosen not to make it. With less enthusiasm, I still watch Will Smith's movies even after his rather racist comments about Haitians and poor Blacks in the US. Maybe he went too "method" and channelled Richard Williams as he explained. I love most of Chris Rock's satirical skits that address social inequalities but also ask Black men to rise above the undesirable stereotypes that exist within the Black community. I wish Will Smith watched those skits too because he really behaved and spoke like a "gangsta" stereotype we really do not need anymore - if we ever did. Sorry it ended up being so long.
I sad-laughed at the parenthetical in the video title because I just got done trying to explain to someone online, yet again, that no, hitting a person when you're upset is _not_ "common" behavior... in a thread about The Slap. 🤦 (The last time it came up was about someone who punched holes in their drywall. _No. "Everyone" _*_doesn't_*_ do that, actually._ ) Like Vera, I don't know what personal history exists between Rock and Smith, or Smith and Smith, and I'm not really invested in learning. It's gross that this happened and has already caused ugly responses from ugly people. So many seem eager to pick a side or condemn both, and I'm just backing away because... really? I don't want to keep having the same conversations over and over.
To me the way some people are framing this event comes across as equivocating the two. And that's a problem. Because, while yes it's true that they're both in the wrong... What Will Smith did IS worse, than what Chris Rock did. A world where we make equivocations or excuses for violence begets us more violence. Remember, it's up to all of us to create culture. And short of self defense, violence should not be accepted or tolerated.
People are doing that because there are many others who are portraying Chris as this epitome of Grace... That's hella lot irritating too. For he's not. That's why the other bunch try to equivocate the two
The layers of this are really interesting great video thanks 😊 for me I'm of the view that bad taste jokes should be addressed with constructive criticism rather than punishment. Seeing people frame violence as a justified consequence is making me very uncomfortable. Also people viewing Jada as the manipulator and Will as a victim reeks of misogyny to me.
The joke was in incredibly poor taste, and shouldn't be allowed to go without consequences, though a violent reaction doesn't sit right with me. The thing is, I'm not going to outright condone Will Smith having a strong reaction either because I cannot comfortably make the judgement on what happened to result in that reaction. There is risk of a bad precedent being set, but equally people can discuss that point without attacking people based on information we don't even have.
One thing is clear; we all know a bit about Alopecia now. I think it was the most effective awareness of illness campaign ever done. Didn't know it, did not know Jada had it, did not know what it intended, did not know that apparently a collegue of mine had it as well but sure do now...😅
I'm just still... so baffled. The way I was absolutely inundated on twt, the way takes went from sorta reasonable to... the wildest, most speculative things... Mainly just left me like... wow people really will take the most minimal sand grain and spin it into a mountain for??? Anything and everything really
I love your videos and I love he way you sign off at the end. my fiancee watched this video with me and she said your sign off made her a little weepy.
I have had similar feelings of these types of "social events" before, not always but I did actually have the same experience here because it's just such a chaotic mess and similarly, I'm not sure how I feel. There's arguments against everything, and equally for, and so many are so hard to weigh against each other because it's just not something that I can really judge with the insane amount of layers and tangential tethers to other topics or broader discussions that I just feel frustrated seeing so many people getting so worked up over their answer being the right one...when it just isn't that simple and is why I've tried to just avoid discussions entirely as much as possible. I can see various different paths of Will going from laughing to angry, including maybe it being a default response until it settled among those you already brought up, and equally I don't know if or why this would be planned but regardless, it serves no benefit. The amount of tweets I've seen of people saying "I still don't care about the Oscars" is astonishing, and I think I've seen one tweet about the actual winners and that was showcasing how some production members/teams are not the ones highlighted vs big names, which is another unrelated topic that deserves more attention than a lot of the mania this has brought up but again, not necessarily every topic. It's such a big bundle of mess that frankly I'm just taking a step back and trying to breathe
The lens through which I've been seeing this incident has been a legal/societal one. Technically, what Will Smith did is battery, which is usually considered a misdemeanor in California. However, these sorts of situations usually don't legally escalate unless the victim of the battery chooses to press charges and pursue the matter in court. From what I've heard so far, Chris Rock has refrained from doing so, most likely because the majority of society (himself possibly included) will have seen Will's slap as a deserved consequence of his joke. This exemplifies a current dichotomy between what the law deems appropriate for the functioning of society and what people personally deem appropriate. Despite the act of slapping being illegal, it is socially acceptable in certain circumstances such as when women slap men in anger or such as when Will Smith did it to Chris Rock to protect his wife's honor. I can't claim that Chris Rock's joke wasn't deserving of a slap, but Will still shouldn't have gone through with it because the law makes slapping illegal for a reason. While slapping (assuming it doesn't fall into the realm of abuse) in itself may not be as egregious as punching or some other type of battery, it is still a violation of another's person. Also, the act of slapping can quickly escalate into more serious forms of violence if not put in check. Therefore, I am of the opinion that any form of unsanctioned (such as in professional wrestling) or non-consensual (such as in the kind of sex that some people like to have) slapping is wrong. I empathize with Will Smith's position, but there were other ways he could have gone about defending his wife at The Oscars such as demanding that Chris Rock give a public apology during the ceremonies.
May I emphatically disagree as to why I think Chris did not press charges? To hand a Black man over to the LAPD, whether you think that they ought to be charged or not, is not something that any other Black man with a trace of grace or consideration would do, unless they thought their own lives were in danger. Considering Chris' own history, I could not imagine him pressing charges against Smith when the LAPD was going to be the ones handcuffing a Black man. No offense to most officers, who are good guys, but you cannot be certain of the safety of any Black person being arrested and if something had happened, Chris would have been blamed for it.
I've just said a similar thing. There were any number of other ways Smith could have responded and while I'm certainly not defending Smith's actions (or Rock's words), Rock was lucky it wasn't a punch.
As a white person, I personally am removing my thoughts and feelings about the situation from this whole thing. I'm instead deferring to black voices, because I've already seen a number of black people going into great detail about how the nuances of this situation are rooted exclusively in black culture. As such, none of us should be speaking over black voices, and us white people just need to sit this one out essentially.
I feel like we shouldn’t remove ourselves from talking/thinking about it just because of the race of Will and Chris. I can understand that policy with some other sensitive topics but by removing ourselves it’s just feels like we are treating them differently because of their race which is never good. I know there are some nuances to it particularly on hair importance and defending partners but at the end of the day they are just two people feeling understandable emotions. What someone is willing to say to make people laugh and that split second decision of how to defend somebody you love is something we’ll all be faced with at some point, although maybe not in front of millions of people. As you say though we shouldn’t ‘speak over black voices’ but we should always keep talking and listening.
Before I started this video, my opinion was this - humiliating and assaulting people is never okay, not in public, not in private. In different ways, Mr Smith and Mr Rock are both guilty of that. But in *absolutely equal measure*, I have zero space from which to judge either of them, or Mrs Smith. Hm. That last one felt weird, because I was reducing her to her married name. Not respectful like I was going for. But point being, I am not black, I do not work in Hollywood, I am not a celebrity. I do not know these people, their lives, their struggles or the struggles of their families and communities. I'm slowly working on dispelling my ignorances and prejudices but it's only gotten so far as understanding that I know almost nothing, so am in no fit place to judge any of these people. As human beings, sure - try not to assault or humiliate, we can all agree that avoiding those things is best. But they aren't just amorphous human forms - they're real people with histories I cannot comprehend, so I'm left in a place of bafflement. In honesty, it's probably not a bad thing - not assuming you know and have passed good judgement is a safer place to be than totally sure of yourself, most of the time. My only additional thoughts after the video were that it doesn't seem all that strange for someone to notice a loved one has been injured in some way by something they had dismissed for whatever reason, then immediately turn on the offensive towards the threat. Adrenaline is amazing, gets you going reeeeeal fast. I've gone from having a good time to on my feet, ready to throw down when something has shocked me into action (usually with a strong emotional motivation). So it never really occurred to me before this to want to see what happened in between the laughter and the stride down the stage but after hearing different theories about it, compassionate and otherwise, it does sound interesting. But since I hadn't flagged it as a point of concern before, I'm happy staying in that place. He's been doing a lot of journeying and expressing himself lately, Will Smith. Usually comes with a bit of emotional upheaval, sometimes big reactions to things. Makes sense to me, as did his apology.
Okay, Vera, you got me. 😁 Like you said, this has drawn people in from all over the place on a spiral of tangents, and I confess, I'm one of those people. Ever since this thing kicked off, I've been watching WAY TOO MUCH media about it, and all the while thinking "WHY am I so obsessed with this? WHY do I care THIS much?" And within the first few minutes of your video and your words about the multitude of angles and politicization of it, it hit me. For me, it was the "Jada Pinkett-Smith is an abusive narcissist" rabbit-hole that it went down. That's a trigger for me personally, having grown up with a narcissist; I have this need to figure them out and determine how to 'fix' the situation for their victims (in this case, allegedly, Will Smith,) possibly because I couldn't do that for myself. (It's also why I got into such an unhealthy obsession with following all the news about Trump - god, THAT was especially depressing in the last couple of years!) But that was just me; as you said, this debacle encompassed a whole buffet of rabbit-holes (wow, that's a crap metaphor, but I'll go with it anyway...) that can pull so many people in from so many different angles. That's how this thing got so big. I will say though, that I was NOT impressed with Rebel Wilson, later on in the show after The Slap and Will Smith's weird acceptance speech. She made a joke at Will Smith's expense, *to his face* that --- well, sheesh, that was just NASTY. Like, mean, kick-a-man-when-he's-down nasty. With the cruelty of that joke, plus the timing of when she decided to make it, and factoring in that he *of course* wasn't going to go up and slap a woman, it almost felt like she was deliberately baiting him, like "Hey, I can be as horrible as I like to you, because, let's face it, after everything that's already gone down tonight, you're just going to have to sit there and suck it up, aren't you?" Yes, Will Smith shouldn't have 'resolved' his beef with Chris Rock by slapping him, but for Rebel to actively GOAD him while knowing he wouldn't dare to retaliate... well, I think that's another kind of bullying, and it just made her look tacky and cowardly.
My big takeaway is how many people are performatively reacting to an incident involving celebrities while claiming they don’t care about celebrity culture because everyone narcissistically thinks they need to virtue signal their morally correct take over a fucking slap - an incident that wouldn’t rate at all on the list of the top thousand things of bad things that happened in your own fucking city that night. People are fucking sheltered and pearl-clutching over nothing because they feel compelled to have a take and be part of the discourse. For fucks sake some people out there need to face some real problems.
Something that was discussed immediately after it happened, but I haven't heard much since: Celebrity Privilege Will Smith is a higher tier celebrity than Chris Rock. When Smith stormed the stage, there was no security; when Smith hit Rock, no security response; when Smith left the stage, no response. The only responses during and after The Slap: Silence, Will Smith consoled by his friends (Denzel Washington, Tyler Perry, and Bradley Cooper), then an Acceptance Speech/Apology from Will Smith. If the situation had been reversed, Chris Rock would not have gotten that leeway.
Why are jokes about appearance ok. Making fun of anyone's appearance isn't satire. It isn't making fun of their power or privilege or fame; it's just insulting their appearance or comparing them to someone else. I have never understood why anyone finds jokes about appearance funny. The only time I've found them acceptable is when it's being used to deride horrible people. Ie saying Andy Warhol looks like (insert gross thing/physical attribute) but it's still kina iffy because if, for example, it's joke about his weight; well then other people are overweight so is it okay to make the same jokes about them too? The answer to that is largely no, I know. Just thought I'd bring this argument up myself before someone else did it as a response to my thinking these kinds of jokes aren't okay.
You know what else isn’t okay. Putting your hands on someone and slapping them. Chris Rock is not at blame here since Will acted in a completely cowardly manner by putting his hands on someone without consent.
I think the reason these jokes are common is because you can't know someones anything by looking at them, in exception to how they look. So it's easy to make a visual joke based on appearance, the audience doesn't need to do anything but look over to verify the comparison to get the 'joke'. You have to be acutely aware of who the subject is for a joke about their character or actions to even click with the audience. Especially with a main stream event with wildly different groups of people at the event&watching it at home. It just makes it easy to quickly fire some things off quickly in the allotted window of time without confusing anyone. It's kinda junk food comedy. If that makes sense? 🧡🦇
@@T0xXx1k Yeah that makes sense and I get that's just how comedy works sometimes. Every comedian has their own style but the Oscars isn't a comedy show.
@@eireannbullimore7763 no but it's made to appeal to as wide an audience and be at easily digestible as possible. I'm not defending any part of it just I know why it was done that way. 🧡🦇
Im just putting this here before i watch the video fully. Thank you for highlighting Ariana's win. Ive been a fan of hers for a while and am really excited she won AN OSCAR!
The people who think Will Smith was right to hit Chris Rock must not be living in the real world if they think everyday people can go up and just hit people if they are upset by something they say.
@@kat8559 how isn’t it the same argument? Smith hit someone because he didn’t like what they said in front of an entire audience of famous people and millions of people on television and then struts away like he did nothing wrong.
In the real world, people who pull the sort of shit Chris Rock pulled here *do* actually catch hands for it on the regular. Anybody who's ever worked in a bar - or indeed a school! - knows that .
@@gozerthegozarian9500 not really because Rock was doing his job being a stand up in a comedy sketch. If he randomly yelled that in a street it would be different
I am guilty of getting involved in this discourse (admittedly to the detriment of sanity to some extant) and tried to look at the situation with nuance. I have got into some arguments about this debacle, but luckily left the chat and didn't resort to name calling. I have also been guilty of bringing up people who have nothing to do with this situation. I'm impressed on how you handled it because I have been waiting for a video like this for a while. As black person I seen people both within and outside of my community divided on this subject, if support Will then you condone assault, if you support Chris, you support ableism. Its a huge mess and I have to the point were I didn't want to here anyone's opinions on the matter because I knew what was coming. I don't want people to lose friends over this mess. The more we find out, the more this rabbit hole of misery is going to continue. I wish that incident never happened and I really hope this doesn't end in tragedy. I don't know why I think the later, I just do. God bless, stay safe.✌
My take on the fact that one person physically assaulted someone who might have disrespected his wife? None of my business. Whether or not it happens in front of a camera it’s other peoples personal lives
I haven't finished the video but just to way in on the laugh thing: I laugh whenever other people laugh even if I didn't get the joke or the joke didn't register yet. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've genuinely laughed at something, had the implications of the joke register, and then got horrified by the fact that I just laughed at a very messed up joke. I'm not going to fully side either way on Will Smith's reaction, but I totally think it was possible he laughed with the crowd and then came to the concussion on this own that the joke was messed up immediately afterwards.
I'm the same way. I *also* get the urge to laugh when I'm upset, or feeling high levels of stress. And sometimes, I laugh when I'm *anticipating* a punchline, and it comes out before I actually hear the punchline.
I realized in the edit that the laugh could be any number of things I didn’t bring up (automatic response while still processing the full meaning, simply disconnected from his thought process, etc). In hindsight I wish I’d added a note to that effect.
Agreed. A part of me wonders if Chris Rock had immediately moved on instead of defending the joke as "an OK one" was accidentally letting it linger too long.
To be clear I'm not condemning Rock with this, merely wondering if this moment it played a factor in how everything played out.
I had this theory too, because I can't count the number of times that I've had a reaction to something that is not the appropriate reaction in that situation. Sometimes it's because I'm dissociating and therefore I'm on autopilot, sometimes it's an anxiety reaction, and others I just plain won't understand the situation so I'll do my best guess at what the appropriate reaction is. Sometimes I get it right, many other times I won't, and I end up needing to apologise profusely.
@@jintym2951 I never thought about that but maybe.
One incident that involved violence, gender, class, race, celebrity status, comedians, AND disability? No wonder this thing became a bag of angry cats.
Hooo boy are you correct!
Calling alopecia "disability" is definitely an exaggeration
@@thalesanastacio760 No, it definitely isn't. It's a permanent medical condition that irreversably alters the body in ways that negatively impact the way a person is treated by others and feels about themselves, thus making their life more challenging than it would be without that condition. That's what a disability is.
@@gozerthegozarian9500 By that definition, having Myopia could be considered a disability. Being bald can affect one's sense of self worth, but this has more to do with standards of beauty than with real physical or mental impediments. So no,alopecia is not medically disabling, not everything that can cause emotional distress can be considered a disability.
@@thalesanastacio760 I'm not sure I agree. Gozer's definition seems pretty solid on social grounds, while you haven't provided a medical one to contradict it. Though I'm guessing you were alluding to the varied difficulty or inability to perform certain tasks that come with a disability. Would that be close to what you were saying?
I just wanted to express that I thought the first two sentences were more convincing of your argument than the last, since it brought in an entirely new topic to a conclusion (whether or not everything that can cause emotional distress can be considered a disability, which is an entirely separate conversation to defining whether or not alopecia is a disability - if you take the central phrase out, alopecia is not medically disabling, and reread the sentence, you'll see what I mean) and it did seem condescending with the redundant double assertion and your use of the absolute (everything).
Feel free to tell me to rack off. I just know the internet isn't kind to tone or intent most of the time and I thought that maybe there'd just been some crossed wires in communication here. I feel like you're both expressing halves of the whole rather than opposing points.
@26:57, some perspective from an amateur comedian: a common tactic used by comedians is called 'priming,' where a string of small jokes are let out in quick succession, which sets the mood of the room and gets people "primed" to laugh at a joke, sometimes even before you can process or absorb what was said in full. Will laughed because he was primed to do so in the moment. Jada's face made it sink in for him. Its somewhat why you are more prone to laughing at a film's jokes when you are watching it with friends as opposed to alone. The environment also can prime the audience.
This is what I feel happened. Maybe that he was so primed to laugh at a joke, he laughed when maybe he didn’t even quite take in what was being said, I’m sure we’ve all laughed at a joke we don’t quite get or has fully taken in what the joke was.
Theory:
Will doesn't get the G.I. Jane reference (it's been 25 years) and does a fake laugh.
Jada explains the joke to him.
Will then goes and slaps Rock.
Given the fact that the film was a box office bomb that few people even remember, that is quite possible!
@@gozerthegozarian9500 I loved that movie. XD
I watched that movie *a lot* (we had it on VHS) my father saw it as having a "badass feminist" message/representation - but for me it *illustrated something much more important:*
How completely skewed, wrong, and corrupt the "don't ask don't tell" policy was (despite being painted as progressive anti-discrimination protocol) especially when a *straight* woman is railroaded with it for sitting at a beach for political reasons.
If I could understand pre-pubescently that someone taking a photo of you while sitting around a fire with friends could cost you your job because of "how it looks" (like nothing, it literally looks like nothing) and destroy your career *true OR not* something was seriously wrong.
---
Dinner conversations became much more interesting after that.
I love the fact that:
ONE dude makes a tasteles joke.
ANOTHER dude punches him.
The internet goes: „Well, we need to talk about the question if the woman can be blamed somehow.“
Wtf?!
In Ireland, the slap was edited out as if it never happened. After the oscars, during the credits a voice came on to explain that the broadcasters didn't want to edit it out, but the footage they received from the academy had it cut out.
Sneaky ratbags.
Yeah they broadcast live in the states or I assure you they'd of tried to hide it across the board so they got caught off guard in the moment like everyone there. I'm kinda surprised they went out of their way like that wow..
🧡🦇
I'm in Ireland and couldn't believe they did that. What did they think, we wouldn't see it? 🤣
@@janetclaireSays I know! Its like they think we don't have the Internet 🤣🤣
@@solemnlament9757 they probably think we live in thatched cottages and drive a 'pony and trap to mass on Sundays,' so what would we be doing with the internet? 🤣
I think this whole incident was very unfair on the other nominees and winners It took away from their joy. It sucked the oxygen out of the room.
I agree and while I don't think much of the Oscars, it's completely overshadowing those who did win for which it is a big thing. I'm a big fan of Coda myself but didn't expect it to get any awards, yet it won 3 and because of this incident nobody is really talking about it or the other winners.
You're completely right, I haven't seen anyone point that out. :/
@@Elwaves2925 Especially the one who won the documentary award He had to follow that mess. And not many really heard his heartwarming speech because everyone was buzzing over the slap
The Smiths are a narcissistic, toxic couple and they brought that to the Oscars. It was all about them because they live in a bubble of self-absorption.
The seconds we can't see might just have been his brain registering what had been said. Going from laughing to being mad because someone went from being funny to being insulting that quickly, it takes time to process.
This!
And there is also another conversation going on…. I am a woman that has had hair loss since I was 16. I owned for over 30 years. Once people found I I did not have cancer many felt free to punch down. People and bosses thought I was not qualified to work because my hair was patchy. When I was a laid off after 30 years at a job I finally went and started wearing wigs out of fear that no one would hire me. I haven’t been made fun of at events and even on the train… Well, the point is that there are wig groups out their that are discounting Jada’s experiment because she is beautiful. Then there are others that say her alone is is fake because no one sees smooth skin on her head…that she still had enough hair to shave. Or that she should have bought a nice wig and shut up. Humanity is baffling at times.
Can’t help but feel this could have highlighted the awareness of people suffering from hair loss and something positive come out of this chaos. My son has alopecia and there’s not many options out there. I’m sorry for your situation. X
I too have had alopecia universalis for nearly 20 years and as I am in Scotland have been fortunate to have wigs funded by the NHS...for now. Most people have been okay and haven't had insults, though I was once called a "bald b**ch" in my place of employment, by a young woman who was a customer and I got no support. Jada looks amazing. Her bone structure and the shape of her face, I mean she looks good. I need wigs simply because I don't look good bald (apparently some alopecia sufferers are wanting to ditch the wig in support, I won't). I don't know about Jada's eyebrows etc, but her make-up will also be top line. I didn't realise she had alopecia. The joke was in bad taste, especially if Rock knew about her condition. However, I get why some people with alopecia would be irritated by the whole incident. Jada Pickett- Smith is privileged , is there a degree of envy within the community- yes. Also, if something is said to us, we're expected just to get on with it and wouldn't get away with slapping someone. Initially I thought this may raise the issue of alopecia, but now I fear the way some people are, this incident could be used as another weapon to attack us. I don't know how to feel about the whole thing. I may have alopecia, but I have also said stupid, tactless things.
Problem with people like that is not everyone sees through their persona, because they only target people that won't make them "look bad." They have to bring others down to lift their self up. Just ignore them don't let people like that dictate your life.
@@vintagesoup79 My best mate's big sister is in the same situation, except still on the path to getting her wigs funded by the NHS. She's had problems with addiction a lot of her life, so they're making it even harder than they already do in order to keep spending down. Keep making her go to dermatologists and other people to get her referral. It's very frustrating, because she's had it since she was a teenager (in her 40s now) and it was the result of childhood trauma, as was her addiction. She's been given so much grief about her appearance all her life, even recently at the hairdressers, it's enraging and heartbreaking. I really hope some good comes out of this for people with alopecia and everyone's understanding of the condition.
That's why the grievances towards someone's body that is out of their control are valid. But then she's a scientologist. But she's also a public figure that other people look to when they see black people on TV. It's a very intersectional issue.
I feel like the Oscars shouldn’t be about roasting people especially because it can go wrong like this, I wish they would just focus on celebrating movies
Remember when they used to have dance routines to the nominated movie scores? Now THAT was good!
But the movies are so shit the last 3 decades no one wold trn in for 'emm alone.
Nah we need more Ricky Gervais comedians roasting the whole crowd. If they react like how Will did then they need to grow up like who reacts to violence over a joke. Thats not how mature adults react in the real world. These celebs need to get out of their echo chambers like ugh
@@cowboysfanatic5613 In the real world, people do catch hands for cruel mockery all the time, especially if it's delivered repeatedly over the years - check Rock's history of shitting on the Smiths! And mature adults don't watch Ricky Gervais, people stuck in their 14-year-old-channer-edgelord-phase do.
@@gozerthegozarian9500 I am aware of another joke chris rock did years ago, but has he done something else against the smiths?
And, no, u might not like Ricky Gervais, but to many his humour is pretty good, and he is actually a pretty clever guy who knows what he does
Thank you for the neuanced conversation.
So many people are stuck on taking sides that there is no room left to work towards understanding.
Thank you for the clarifying tweet.
Personally, I think both Smith and Rock are as bad as each other for this. It was a tasteless, low punching comment (not a joke) but Smith also massively overreacted to it. He could have responded in any number of other ways. The shouting he did being one of them. What's really got to me (but doesn't surprise me) are the folks defending Rock, saying he deserves respect and held the high ground. He doesn't deserve any of that for the situation he created.
@@Elwaves2925 I totally disagree. Telling a bad joke is bad, assaulting someone for telling a bad joke is WORSE. It's not that complicated. Rock was doing his job, whether you agree with his content or not, he didn't do anything that warranted a physical assault on national television. I don't know why folks are having such a hard time condemning the violence. If a random person did what Will did they would have been arrested right on the spot. I'm not defending Rock's joke, I'm condemning Will's actions and defending Rock's right not to be assaulted for telling a bad joke.
@@coss1 You're right, it's not thatcomplicated. You are talking about the acts, which I agree the slap was worse. I was talking about the people themselves, which is why I said Smith and Rock, not words and a slap. Both did deplorable things, even though those things were different, so both are as bad as each other. Both of them should have known better. There is no excusing either of them.
This is just me, but I felt bad for Jada when so many people were laughing at her. It reminded me of when I wore glasses as a preteen girl in junior high, and two boys who were taller and bigger than me on separate occasions threatened to punch me in the face or break my glasses because they didn't like how I looked while wearing them. It honestly made me feel small and ashamed at the time, even though I needed them to see.
Pre-video thoughts: I’m surprised you even made a video about this
Mid-video thoughts: “ok now that we covered the joke, let’s talk about…” ad* “Google career certificates”
Post-video thoughts: I like how this video is more about the discourse surrounding the issue as opposed to it being about your personal take on it. It is very interesting to see how something like this plays out in real time, especially in the age of the internet and social media. I honestly don’t know how to feel about it either so, I appreciate you helping me process all this by watching you process this on camera. Overall great video 👍🏼
I swear these folks are acting like Will murdered ten folk like it's not that serious 🤣 They both apologized and folks on twitter damn near traumatized about all this
"Did he deserve it? Yes. Should he have been slapped? No." Basically sums up my weird ambivalence about this topic
Well, this should be an interesting video
@GiRayne Worth it
@@curuvari2247 Indeed, totally worth it. Made many interesting points.
Hi Vera! Thank you so much for such a well-thought-out and well-organized conversation, as always. Whenever I begin thinking about something, you’re pretty much the first person on RUclips I’d like to watch and listen to, because I think you are genuinely very, very thoughtful and kind.
I'm curious is Chris Rock wrote the joke himself or if it was pitched to him by the people who write jokes for the Oscars. That's not to make excuses for him since he still agreed to tell the joke, but if it turns out someone else wrote the joke, it'll be interesting to see if the Oscar staff writers get any backlash for this
No one gives a damn about the joke, at least anyone with a damn brain.
Even if they did write it and there was backlash, I personally don’t think we will hear about it in much detail. Mainly because that’s behind the scenes stuff. They could simply change who the writers are for the next Oscars and we won’t hear a thing except perhaps hearing that they are different which could become speculative in itself because I certainly don’t know how the Oscars are planned, getting a new writing team every time might be the norm.
I've seen a few entertainment outlets say the Academy confirmed that the joke wasn't scripted.
If will had acted right they might have but now that he assaulted the guy I don’t think they will back down about the joke, that would vindicate him to some stupid people and that’s not good
I've consistently read that the joke wasn't scripted and he didn't say it at rehearsals.
I'm very uncomfortable with the blame that is landing on Jada Pinkett Smith. A lot of this is born of past trauma on my end, as a cis woman who was once conventionally attractive. There have been occasions in which a man has hurt my feelings, and another man I knew has decided, without my asking, to defend my honor. Let me assure you, the woman is always blamed. I'm blamed once, when I cried and a friend saw, and physically attacked the man who had hurt my feelings. The narrative became that I had sent someone to attack that person, and decades later, that's still the narrative. So, I really hate this dinosaur trend of a man defending "his woman."
This is all coming back on her. I've seen such ugly things said about her and her marriage, such hateful things toward her.
I feel I've said more than it's my place as a white lady to say, already. I have more empathy toward Jada than I perhaps have a right to feel.
I see where you’re coming from, however I feel in this instance there’s something inside me that feels different. Since Jadas RTT the stuff she’s said and admitted to doing and the way she’s spoken about literally grooming a young, vulnerable man with sexual intentions and the way she (imo) has disrespected her husband and marriage has sat so wrong inside me. She oozes toxicity in my eyes.
@@ljh8264 That's just speculation I'm not willing to participate in. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just going to be in the same camp as Vera here and say I do not know anything about it.
@@angiep2229 I’m not sure if you’ve watched much red table talk (I wouldn’t recommend, most of it is extremely uncomfortable) but what I’ve said is not speculation, the way she spoke about August, a young man at the time she met him, half her age, the SAME age as Wills first son was incredibly disturbing and the way she looked into her husbands eyes while he cried broke my heart.
I practically fully agree with most of what you’ve said but imo Jada is a different story. End of the day we don’t really know what goes on behind closed doors, but the peek we’ve had in really upsets me.
People saying “this is black love”, black men stand up for their women. No, No i don’t claim that shit. Jada, like myself is a grown ass women, Chris Rock was not threatening her, she’s sat high and mighty in her chair for years. If she had a problem you bring that shit to his face with your words like a strong female. Don’t get your husband to run around like a man child and embarrass himself resorting to violence as if he doesn’t have the vocabulary to tell someone they done fucked up and what they said was not acceptable.
Sorry for the rant, this just hits close to home I think.
@@ljh8264 I think Will is coping with the fact that he will never be Tupac to Jada and he must PROVE his worth to her. She had said plenty of humiliating things about Will and their marriage all on her own. She is beautiful but I don’t get she is that beautiful on the inside which could just be unhappiness in a marriage that has now about money and protecting assets. I sense no love there anymore. Hope I’m wrong.
@@ljh8264 Vulnerable young man? August is in his 20's. He's fine.
What is being lost in all this discussion is Will and especially Jada's feelings about what happened on that stage. He talked a little about his mindset in the speech he gave afterward but most people do not know about his history with Chris Rock, and with people constantly disrespecting him and his family. This may have simply been the last straw event. I wasn't surprised by what he did because if you've followed Smith's career for any length of time then you realize this was the culmination of a lot of events and decisions by him.
You noticed that not once did Will Smith asked Chris Rock to apologize to his wife. It was all about him and his feelings.
I find it hard to believe that a presenter at the Oscars in a similar sphere of celebrity to Jada's husband, and given the documentary involvement you mentioned, hasn't heard her being vocal about alopecia. My ultimate thought is that the joke was absolutely punching down, Will's decision to defend his wife was correct, but Will's choice to get physical was not.
Exactly what I believe. Too many believe defending family has to always be physical
I think I agree.
exactly
Fully agree with everything except the “he surely must have known” take. Out of all of the Smiths, I follow Jada and Willow almost exclusively because I tune into Red Table Talk - and I didn’t know. I truly didn’t. She looks so outrageously stunning with her hair this way that I always just assumed it was a stylistic choice. I was blown away that I somehow missed that in all of the years I’ve followed them. Some people just simply didn’t know
"Down"
It's weird cause the response isn't split by left and right. Its split within. You've got right wingers split defending the joke as free speech or the violence as protecting family/being a man. And you've got the left split defending neither of them as the joke was disrespectful and the reaction was extreme... or defending the violence against the joke because of consequences. I've seen some say he did the "correct alpha male thing" and some disgustingly blaming jada saying she "emasculated him" (typical they blame the woman who sat and did nothing). The responses have been so jumbled. I'm very much of the stance that I assumed would be common sense.... The joke was out of line and unnecessary targeted at someone with a medical condition (I very much believe he knew about the alopecia) but the reaction was cowardly, and extremely wrong. And you can defend family without bring violent.
Yeah it’s wild. I agree they were both in the wrong and like physical violence because you don’t like what someone said not right. You could make an argument that this situation physical violence was justified but that sets a dangerous precedent because who decides what justifies that level of reaction
There’s no argument for why getting up on stage is justified.
It's mostly been comedians who are defending Chris cause we like to defend everything comedy and will always take the stance of comedy. Comedy>Everything else
1. What kills me is that people are more upset about a slap than they are about Jada being disrespected by her hair/disease that she's been opened about.
2. I feel like certain groups of people need to shut up about this situation because its way more complex than just a "oh it's a joke", "he's a comedian", etc. Its deeper due to it being a black issue/black women always being butt if a joke especially with their hair/bodies, a past beef between Rock & the Smiths, as well as men feeling the need trying to protect their wives/partners.
Fair. I will say that the people who were telling the LGBTQ community that "Oh its just a joke" "He's a comedian" a few months ago when it was about about a black comedian making up a story (I say making up because I can find no evidence that she committed suicide because of bullying by trans people on twitter. All account from those close to her was due to her potentially losing custody of her child and anti-trans assholes bullying her) that got actual trans people harassed and abused online (Jessie Gender if I recall right was getting yelled at online when trying to discuss stuff because of Chappelles special) are now totally against jokes and have flipped 180 degrees.
It just feels an awful lot like "Rules for thee but not for me" about comedy. They are alright with abusive jokes and harassment when its THEM sling it out but the moment a joke turns on them its suddenly oh to far and how could you. I am sorry but if making jokes about everyone else is A-OK then jokes about you need to be as well.
Well yeah... they're both bad but a physical hit is worse
This 100%
At the end of the day, this was a multimillionaire celebrity slapping another multimillionaire celebrity, and I have a hard time getting too upset about it on a visceral level. But it’s still an interesting event in that it speaks to a lot of different issues. And I don’t think you can get away from trying to understand the mental state of the participants in a situation like this, but of course there is a line that should be avoided in such conversations. I’m trying to look at it less from the standpoint of ‘why’ it happened, but rather from the standpoint of whether it would have happened if one or more variables were different. As I think about it and ask questions about it, I’m trying to avoid judging any of the participants categorically, because I don’t think that’s really productive or illuminating. Again, they’re wealthy celebrities, and they just live in a different world than I do. For me it’s more about ‘what does this incident say about society itself’? Especially the intersectionality of race, wealth, and class status.
If it had been Ricky Gervais instead of Chris Rock making the joke, would Will Smith have slapped him? In other words, was the nationality and/or race of the comic a factor in Smith’s response? Also, would Will Smith have been treated differently by the event staff if he had struck a white or non-American comedian? Was that calculus part of Smith’s split-section decision to physically strike Rock? Did Smith realize that slapping Rock was something he could get away with because both he and Rock are American and/or Black? Smith sat right back down, as if he knew that there would be no immediate repercussions to his action. Again, we can’t know what his actual mental state was, but these are questions to think about in general, as a reflection of the structure of society. And none of this touches upon ‘why’ Smith struck Rock, because that’s not really the question. At one point or another, I’m sure we’ve all wanted to strike someone for something they’ve said, and some of us have actually done so, but we all refrain from doing so at times. So what was the thing that took Smith from wanting to strike Rock for whatever reason, and actually doing so?
I also wonder if Smith had already accepted his own award prior to the joke, would he have responded this way? How much of his reaction was due to his already heightened emotional state regarding the award he was nominated for? I also wonder how much the cosmic microwave background trauma of the last few years and ongoing current events contributed to all of this. I know a lot of us are on the razor’s edge right now. I don’t know how much that factors into all of this, but I would be very surprised if it didn’t factor in at all.
See, I had that conversation with my family and that is precisely what bothered us. The intersection of race, wealth, social status. and we added physique. Because of that, I can't imagine Will Smith hitting Tom Cruise nor Jason Momoa (known for his stupid jokes) but maybe Kevin Hart (shown in the video). As Vera said, we are not in Will Smith's head so these are just random speculations but Chris Rock is a whole caste lower because he is a comedian, not even a bona fide actor.
Will Smith dominated in all four categories so it was relatively safe to assume that the consequences would not be too dramatic. Indeed, he refused to leave the premises and was not forced out; no charges were pressed; and although he may not attend the ceremony for the next decade, he can still receive Oscars.
Instead of Jada Pinkett Smith controlling her husband, maybe it is all the years he spent as a big star in this type of environment where there are no consequences that made him the man he is today.
Thank you for making this video. Social media has been hard since this happened. I really appreciate you breaking everything down in such an unbiased manner.
Love your earrings💙💙
I'm a huge fan of nuanced conversation. It's why I stay away from Twitter. So thank you, as always, for covering so many diverse angles on this. And, just t be clear, I did stay and watch this video all the way to the end :)
The thing about setting the line of what you can joke about at a medical condition is that invites people to speculate on what might or might not be a medical condition, and people will and do make judgments about which medical condition they think is worthy of protection. In fact, one discussion you missed is the debate as to whether alopecia qualifies as a disability or not. Disability advocates mostly say it is.
The line has to be consent, you do not joke about another person's body without their consent. Buying tickets to a comedy event that is known to include this kind of comedy could be a form of consent. This is essentially her husband's work event and fame is not consent.
I am curious to hear your thoughts on Will Smith's speech, because there was a lot to unpack there, starting with how he called himself the protector of the actresses who played his wife and daughter, and then him breaking down and making a whole speech about being an arbitor of love and peace (I'm paraphrasing heavily here)... I feel his speech, while from a genuine place, pointed at a lot of very uncomfortable things and reminded me why King Richard made me so uncomfortable.
See, I can get the other angles plenty. I’m just coming at it as someone who was bullied as a nerdy kid, until I finally snapped and bit someone in middle school, earning myself an ISS for the trouble. Thing is, I refuse to be guilty over it bc… it got the bullies to stop. I was always told “oh kill ‘em with kindness”, “turn the other cheek”, etc and so forth, y’all know the drill. But it didn’t work, and the teachers did nothing and I’d had enough. And they stopped.
So seeing someone stand up for his wife and slapping someone for her? If someone did that for me, I’d have married them tbh. Would’ve done a lot of things for that kind of defense.
Thank you for the nuance in your review of the conversation around this incident. Because more then one thing can be true at once and people seem to ignore that.
You’re right about this derailing other conversations and I suspect that’s a good thing for the academy. I agree it makes no sense but at the time it did feel staged, particularly because WS had been laughing at the joke. So I didn’t pay much attention to it until after. During the broadcast I was more infuriated by the constant stream of misogyny from the presenters - yes, even from the women. But no one is talking about that and I think they dodged that bullet thanks to the slap. On which, FWIW, I agree with your friend. CR was asking for it and WS shouldn’t have done it.
People, when they're trying to process something in a social setting will sometimes look to people, usually, their loved ones, to check their reactions before settling into their own response. Will was probably automatically laughing while processing the joke, and sorting out his own response. In other words, the laugh wasn't a genuine reaction it was automatic, his reading of Jada's reaction was him in the middle of processing the joke, then afterward he gave his genuine response.
I'm on Twitter and that's how I "watched" the Oscars and how I saw "The Slap" (and immediately wasn't sure if it was a bit). My take is that it had had an all out negative effect: It definitely put Jada's name in EVERYONE'S mouth, especially other comedians who TORE into her and him. So there goes the whole "defending her honor" thing. Also there were MULTIPLE ways and TIMES to address Rock's joke and still "defend" your woman, that would've benefited everyone. This was the WORST option and had the opposite effect. Chris Rock's current tour just went up in ticket prices. So Chris' jaw may be sore but his wallet is gonna be FULL and the Smith's just get to add more of that public abuse on their plate.
And as you highlighted in the beginning, it overshadowed some damn amazing achievements. I had to scour Twitter to see who won the supporting actor awards. I thought it was funny that once again, West Side Story makes history in the Supporting Actress category and how Marlee Matlin who made history being the first deaf woman to win an Oscar, stars in a nominated film where her co-star makes similar history. I didn't see ?uestlove's acceptance speech for Summer of Soul till the following day. So many things just got buried under THAT.
I saw one comment claiming Will Smith "could have killed" Chris Rock. That's a weird escalation! A slap is not nice but is generally non-lethal; it's not like Rock even looked like he was in danger of being knocked off the stage. So I couldn't help but wonder if THAT take was coming from the "black dudes are scary" mindset...
Definitely an interesting conversation 🤔
Even amongst my friends opinions have vastly varied, and varied in ways that honestly surprised me.
So yeah this conversation about the conversation has definitely been a welcome way to help me clear my head. Thank you 😊
One additional comment is that it seems that Chris Rock hasn't commented on the situation and neither put any complaints towards Will Smith, which makes me believe that he realized that he might have crossed a line with his joke. Or at least, that's how I see it.
Or, he figured that Will Smith already screwed himself over and that pressing charges or telling him to kindly bugger off were unnecessary moves since a good chunk of the internet held him in contempt.
@@irondragonmaiden Or it might just get him bad press as well if he did that.
The fact that a black man who is aware of the history of how hair is weaponized against black women made a joke at her expense and some people are BLAMING her for it is making my head spin. Yes violence is bad, yes toxic masculinity, yes comedians and free speech, all great conversations to have. But everyone is asking questions and very few are arriving at an answer that involves a culture of black women being the butt of the joke. Jada was the original victim (for lack of a better word) of the situation and has somehow either been completely ignored or treated like an instigator.
She could've also tried to stop her husband from making a fool of himself, but instead she didn't do anything and laughed at the slap. Not good.
I mean, I don’t think she could telepathically tell when he got up what he was about to do. But besides that why was that her responsibility? She married a grown up. She shouldn’t have to police his behavior.
This is probably one of the best videos you've made in a while. You really did an excellent job breaking down the different aspects of the Discourse™.
Fascinating video, and so articulate and multi-faceted. Very, very well done.
Some points to be considered. Asserting that Chris Rock deserved it is an advocacy of corporal punishment. Will Smith did not "protect" or "defend" his wife by his action as the offensive incident had already occurred. He exacted revenge through violence. Understanding his reaction does not constitute condoning it. In most workplaces (at least in the UK) his action would result in instant dismissal. The Academy Award is supposed to be for an acting performance not for personal good behaviour.
In my opinion, the joke was trash, and the physical assault was way out of line. Will Smith shouldn’t have been allowed to waltz on back to his seat after that. I do not believe for a second a tasteless one-liner, punch-down joke warranted a rounded smack in the mouth like that. I personally think it’s embarrassing behaviour. Then to accept his award claiming “love will make you do crazy things”?
I just can’t get behind anybody justifying it. I’ve even seen people say it doesn’t “count” as assault because Will didn’t hit him hard enough? And others claiming that “action = reaction, so Chris Rock deserved that and more”. I’m truly baffled by the response this has received by such a seemingly huge number of people.
I agree that Rock's comment didn't deserve the reaction it got from Smith, who massively overreacted. However, I also think they're both as bad as each other for this. Regarding your second paragraph, I've been reading more of the opposite - people defending Rock and saying he deserves respect for how he handled it and continued with the show. Rock's comment was disgusting and he doesn't deserve respect for the situation he created. Neither does Smith for his actions.
@@Elwaves2925 I disagree, a tasteless joke at someone’s appearance is classless, but assault is illegal. They’re not as bad as each other I’m my opinion, not even close.
I’ve seen some comments saying they respect Rock for carrying on as if he wasn’t just smacked. I don’t know how I’d feel or if I’d be able to carry on as normal if somebody just physically assaulted me on the world stage.
@@KRLY359 I don't consider it a joke. It's an insult, whether he knew about her condition or not.
You see, I'm not talking about the acts themselves when I say they're as bad as each other. The two actions aren't directly comparable, so one of them being illegal isn't a factor in my thinking. I did also say that Rock didn't deserve the reaction he got from Smith, indicating that one act was worse than the other. It's the two people involved that I find as bad as each other as both of them did deplorable things.
However, I get that others have different views on this, which is fine, at least for those that have reasonable views like yours. 🙂
@@Elwaves2925 Yes to be fair, let’s say it’s not a joke, I don’t find it funny either, that still doesn’t warrant a physical assault. Both are wrong, but at different degrees I think. Thank you! 😊 just trying to be as reasonable as I can be, it seems so simple to me, but maybe not so much to others
@@KRLY359 It's fair to try and be reasonable as it's not as clear cut as some like to make it, a factor that the video above often points out. I'm also in another conversation with someone who is clearly a fan of Rock and their bias is showing. My very first reaction to hearing about this was good for Smith, then I thought about and realised it wasn't so straightforward. Leading me to my current view.
My personal feelings is it was an understandable but ridiculously out of place reaction to a bad joke. I can't believe the narrative spiral from what was just a ridiculous celebrity moment and unbelievable live TV.
SCREW the Oscars. People are acting like it's HALLOWED GROUND... It's not. The Oscars are a mere advertising mechanism for rich people. If this happened in a club, people wouldn't be clutching pearls all over the place. Oh, and Chris Rock HIMSELF doesn't care very much, so...why should everyone else?? lol. He didn't even press charges.
If you poke the bear (with a stick of-course) expect the bear to retaliate, even if it is a circus bear.
I agree the joke was bad taste, Jada has a shaved head for longer then a trend, Chris knew Jada & Will, he knew, but won't acknowledge this because he now is the victim. Also Chris let it go, for the most part, media & the Academy have not; this is telling as well.
Best video I have seen on this so far
I love how no matter what they topic is, you always try to bring nuance to it. It makes me think about the subject in new ways. :)
I think the most reasonable take I've seen about this is 'If it were in a pub, you'd kick Will Smith out for being violent, but after he got down the road, you'd tell Chris Rock to leave as well. You'd probably serve Smith again if he apologised, but you'd probably give serious consideration to barring Rock'
I don't know if it's just the environment I live in, but if I made a joke like he did, I'd expect to get in an argument at the very least, if not get hit.
A note that I think matters: Chris Rock SHOULD HAVE known. As a comedian, he should do research before making any jokes. Like. That's a part of his job. Yes, I understand that he can't fully prepare for everything about the audience. But if he's going to say something, he should have at least attempted to find all the information available about it first - and Jada Pinkett Smith's post about her alopecia has no doubt been liked by thousands of her fans. I imagine she's discussed it elsewhere, too, but you get the picture. This information was readily available.
Thank you for your even-handed coverage of this incident. I had the same thought processes on this, because I try to see what happened from each person's perspective to try to make sense of the motivations of those involved. It's about understanding what went on & learning from it rather than stoking the fire for more drama, views or to make judgement unfairly. This is the commentary I want to see online - a diplomatic, thoughtful response to what is a highly emotive subject
I feel that Will Smith shot himself in the foot here. I could be wrong be I think if he expressed his distaste for the joke in a less violent way the discourse would be aimed less on whether the violence was ok (which I personally think wasn’t) and more about how much Chris Rock was a jack ass for making fun of someone’s insecurities and medical condition.
Honestly, while I agree that there were better options than physical violence, what really annoys me about the way people go about saying that is that they focus so hard on one man being justifiably angry but losing his temper in an unjustifiable way and causing very minor temporary harm to one other person as being the story to discuss, and not the real issue of how we've so cravenly normalized irresponsible insult comedy like this to the point you have people defending the joke. Sure, after the catharsis of seeing someone who talks shit actually getting hit for it, it's easy to say "oh, he shouldn't have done that, it sets a bad precedent, yadda yadda", and there's a good argument to be made from that, but if you're saying you can't relate to that anger at all and that it reflects on Smith's character overall that he publicly lost his temper once, that... baffles me. If it becomes a pattern with him or people in general, maybe then that'll be an issue. But the degree of vitriol I've seen in even a cursory glance at comments about this feels undeserved to me, especially when paired with defenses of the joke itself or weird rumors about the Smiths' relationship status that shouldn't be the business of keyboard warriors. Ultimately, while I can agree that Smith should have found a better way to handle it, that doesn't absolve Rock from his joke, whether he knew about the alopecia or not, and the whole thing should not be used as a scapegoat to stop us from having a conversation about what "comedy" does and doesn't justify. So while neither party was in the right I still personally find Rock's actions far more odious than Smith's, and the fact that so many people see it the opposite way troubles me more than any "precedent" or "chilling effect" Smith might have caused. Because to be frank, if Smith had taken the moral high ground approach I really doubt anyone would have gotten the message that jokes like that are harmful. Whether that would be preferable to people now deliberately attacking that message the way we're seeing now... I can't really say. Ultimately, I really don't think it sullies my long-term image of Smith the same way it does for Rock or his defenders. Nobody's perfect in how they react to situations on the fly like this; maybe we should be judging the situation that led up to it more than the specific overreaction.
Violence is not the answer. Even if he knew about her condition and still made the joke, yes, it would be in very poor taste. Yes, you don't had freedom from consequences to your actions, but bad jokes do not give someone a free pass to be physically violent with someone. It just doesn't, I don't care how poor taste they are.
Exactly.
He could have just insulted him from his seat. All would have been good. Words vs words
I don’t believe the Academy should revoke the award. Chris is not even pressing charges. The Academy has not revoked awards given out to folks actually convicted for much worse.
*nods emphatically, pointing to Weinstein, Polanski etc. etc. etc. *
Yeah. I agree. That aspect what makes little sense to me. Like he was still going to win the award that was going to happen regardless of if the joke/slap was part of it.
The only reason why I can think of to revoke it is as part of their damage control. But you have other (possible) more effective methods such as banning Will Smith from coming to the award ceremony in person in the future.
I hexitate to add opinions or feelings, since there's way too much of that already. Just... thank you for the video.
Honestly, it's so refreshing to just see anything resembling a nuanced take on this whole thing, as well as someone pointing out the specifics of what we did and didn't actually see - as was said in the video, the extent to which a lot of people are talking in definitive terms about what they think must have occurred in the few seconds we didn't see is fairly worrying.
Pretty much the only thing in this video that I do disagree with is the notion that Chris Rock may not have known about Jada Pinkett-Smith's medical condition. Obviously I don't know for sure what Chris Rock did or didn't know, but speaking as an actor, people in this industry absolutely talk to each other *a lot* and about a lot of different subjects. And people only open up more the higher up the "lists" (i.e. A-list, B-list, etc) you go in terms of who is the subject of discussion - names may not be used at that point but it will generally very quickly become clear one way or another who's being talked about. It's been that way since pretty much the birth of American cinema, if not earlier - you simply cannot keep a secret for very long in this industry unless you literally never open up to anyone even remotely about your personal life...at which point you've sabotaged your career because no one wants to work with you since you're so closed off. If someone knows something about someone else, that information will spread. Things will often remain within the industry itself and not necessarily reach the general public (sort of the work equivalent of "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"), particularly if the information is particularly scandalous and/or involving someone particularly powerful (at least until that reaches a tipping point) or the information is clearly to be considered private, but within the industry itself? Any kind of gossip or information is often considered free game. Given that the three people involved in this incident are all well-known, I do find it incredibly difficult to believe that Chris Rock had absolutely no degree of knowledge to speak of regarding Jada Pinkett-Smith's reason for shaving her head. At best, I could potentially believe that he'd maybe heard from someone else and dismissed it as a bit of unfounded gossip (which also tends to be spread around a lot in this industry). But I personally find it too hard to believe that he had absolutely no idea whatsoever at the time he made the joke. Having said that, of course I can't possibly know for sure what he did or didn't know - it's just too big a stretch for me to personally believe that he didn't.
As to where I stand on the whole thing? Not that it particularly matters, but I'm pretty much firmly in the camp that the joke was an utterly tasteless one that shouldn't have been said (yes, he had the right to say it but the right to say something doesn't mean you should just speak with absolutely no filter regarding time, place, general appropriateness, etc), and Will Smith hugely overreacted by escalating the situation to physical violence. The joke warranted a roll of the eyes and possibly a comment made later on finding it inappropriate but nothing more than that. Ultimately, as I see it, neither of them were in any way "in the right".
Chris Rock himself has said that he didn't know about it. I have no reason to not believe him. Half my family is in the industry and none of them knew about it before the event. Jada's not actually working in films and TV much, except for her show, so there isn't any reason to know or talk about it.
@@eshbena Well, like I said, obviously no one can know for sure, including you or me. I just do find it incredibly difficult to believe that he didn't. *If* he genuinely didn't know at all...I still find it remarkable, but it certainly puts things into a new perspective. However, I will say that being completely cynical about it (and this doesn't reflect my own opinion, btw, it's just the inevitable counter-argument to not having any reason to disbelieve his statement on the matter), it absolutely suits him after the fact to say that he didn't know about her medical condition since admitting he did or attempting to leave it completely up to speculation is basically tantamount in the court of public opinion to admitting that he knowingly and willingly weaponised a woman's medical condition against her for the sake of a joke that (let's face it) was of middling humour at best. That's not exactly something anyone with a shred of decency would want to admit to. But again, that's just pure speculation and I'll admit contributes to the problem expressed in this video. None of us will ever know exactly what he knew or didn't know at the time and while I'll trust his word on the matter, there's no denying that it's still more than a little murky.
I should say that I generally do like Chris Rock. He's close to the knuckle with regards to his comedy a lot of the time but he's tended to refrain from complete tastelessness. But there's no denying that this *was* a tasteless joke when combined with the fact that the subject was, whether intentionally and knowingly or not, a woman's medical condition. And unless/until more information regarding the situation comes to light, I will stand by my opinion that ultimately neither he nor Will Smith come out of this whole thing in a particularly good light. The joke shouldn't have been made, and the reaction shouldn't have escalated to physical violence. Both men are in the wrong, though each for different reasons.
To me this framing comes across as equivocating the two. And that's a problem. Because, while yes it's true that they're both in the wrong... What Will Smith did IS worse, than what Chris Rock did. A world where we make equivocations or excuses for violence begets us more violence. Remember, it's up to all of us to create culture. And short of self defense, violence should not be accepted or tolerated.
@@viewsandrates I'm sorry that it came across as though I was equivocating the two; I've read my comment back and realised it seems as though that's what I was doing and that honestly wasn't my intention at all. I agree with you on all points with regards to your comment. I do think that what Will Smith did made him the worse of the two since, as I said in my original comment, all the joke really warranted with regards to a negative response was making it obvious via a facial expression that he felt the joke was out of line and then *at most* a comment later either to Rock privately or on social media about the inappropriateness of it (really, the comment wouldn't even necessarily be needed anyway because...not everyone has to find every joke funny and, to be honest, this joke just wasn't that funny regardless of the issues surrounding the alopecia due to how outdated the reference was). Jada Pinkett-Smith's reaction (that we saw) was pretty much the perfect way of handling it at the time: making the displeasure obvious without escalating things. It certainly in no way warranted a slap and shouting swear words up to the stage. But my overall point is that just because what Will Smith did was worse than what Chris Rock did, that doesn't automatically mean that Rock did absolutely nothing wrong. As the video says, a lot of the discussion is being held in very binary terms of "if one of them was wrong, then the other was in the right" which, in my opinion, just isn't the case - both men did wrong; in very different ways and on very different levels, yes, but still ultimately neither should have done what they did. Rock, whether he knew it at the time or not, created an uncomfortable situation by making an unnecessary and tasteless joke that, whether he knew it or not, revolved around mocking evidence of a medical condition. Smith then unnecessarily made the situation a lot worse than it *ever* needed to be by escalating it to violence when it should have just been brushed aside in the moment and dealt with peacefully at a later date. Smith was undoubtedly the worse of the two with regards to his behaviour but neither man is wholly "in the right" here. I'm honestly not meaning to equivocate the two with regards to the level of wrong they each did.
@@overlydramaticpanda Thank you for clarifying. Everything you're saying makes sense and I agree.
My main takeaway from all this is mostly "thank God I shut down my twitter account a few months ago"
Dear all non black people, Just because you see a black person laugh doesn't mean we like the joke or that we think its OK. A laugh can be a sign of discomfort and anger.
My mom used to say “If you did something wrong and I’m laughing it’s not because it’s funny, it’s because I’m angry”. Not the healthiest response but as a kid I knew if I got in trouble and my mom was laughing I should be worried.
That isn’t only a black thing, awkward or nervous laughing is a universal response to uncomfortable situations.
Something I don't believe you touched very much on (and apologies if you or someone else in the comments mentioned it and I missed it) is Black hair and how it is often weaponized against Black women. Beauty standards for women, which are already stifling to begin with, are traditionally Eurocentric (at least in this country). Black women can feel a lot of pressure to get expensive hair treatments or wigs to conform to white femininity and those that wear their natural hair texture or protective hairstyles are often mocked, judged, or punished. Any discussion or joke about a Black woman's hair (or lack thereof) is going to inherently have some misogynoir wrapped into it--something that Chris Rock should have known since he made a documentary about Black hair in part so his daughter wouldn't feel ashamed of hers.
I'm not a Black woman, so I have no personal experience on this, but a lot of the reactions I've seen from Black women don't have a lot of sympathy for Rock (while also acknowledging that hitting him was not OK) and they are using the incident as an opportunity to discuss the misogynoir they regularly experience.
My sense is that CHRIS felt like he deserved the slap, and his response to it was appropriately humble. Will definitely let his anger get the better of him and maybe wasn't the best look, but doesn't make him the worst person ever.
Excellent point!
This is a tough one, because I understand both sides, those who agree with Smith and those who think it utterly wrong. NOTE: Me UNDERSTANDING it is not the same as me APPROVING it. I don't approve of this kind of behavior. What I do understand is Smith's frustration at these so called jokes on the expense of his wife and how it can reach a limit at one point. And I completely understand why people would still support Smith, but I do hope that he also does get some punishment for it, because television should not support violence in public. If he got in a fight with Chris Rock at his house and no one saw it, that's their problem, but publicly it's not a good idea and very inappropriate behavior. That's my opinion on the matter. You can agree, you can disagree, that's totally fine. I just wanted to say my opinion on the matter.
It is her problem. Reach a limit? They are both rich, privileged people. Do you think other people, other black men too, get to reach a limit? I have been harassed a lot my whole life and have done things I am ashamed of to this day. But I don't justify them and my anger was MINE no one elses. No one else have any right to remove my agency like that. HIS limit was reached? HE is not the one with the illness.
@@anne-zh2kd I'm not going to discuss this too much. I'm not familiar with what played and I find it difficult to find the right words to give my opinion.
This incident has left me all kinds of sad and bewildered, since I like all parties involved. This is the only video I’ve watched on this, and only because I’m already a subscriber and it came up on my feed. Thank you for your usual balanced take and acknowledgment of biases including your own. If only there were more RUclipsrs like you.
If you want to see another couple of balanced and compassionate takes on the incident, I liked Grace Randolph's thoughts (Beyond the Trailer)... and T1J's thoughts.
@@UTU49 took me a while to get back to this but thanks for the suggestion. I really liked Grace’s take.
@@ghlmk5931
Cool. I'm glad.
It's amazing to me how sometimes people are just locked in their own anger and unwilling to do any thinking at all. Other people, on the other hand, are able to be constructive.
It's also interesting to me that some people can actually be really angry, and yet still be able and willing to listen to other points of view. Many people seem to have zero ability to do this.
Thankies Vera. I feel better informed about the whole mess.
For some reason, I mistook this video for another channel's video, so I'm like "Why am I hearing Vera Wylde right now?" lol
You said everything that needed to said, well done. Ultimately I do think that the slap itself and the shouting should have never happened, their were so many other ways to handle that situation.
The social media discussion mill usually works this way in that whatever is supposed to be the topic isn't really the topic, but rather functions more as a prompt for an improv scene where setting things in motion is more important than where things actually end up going. Usually, people don't notice this because they have an instant reaction to whatever the topic is and march straight into battle. They'll often even dismiss people who question whether the social media discussion is valuable or outright call it silly because they happen to feel the topic itself matters, but just because a topic matters or is serious doesn't mean that any discussion branching off of it does or is.
I'm really glad I clicked on this video. like I was hesitant at first when I got the notfi about this vid but it's really refreshing to see a nuanced conversation from a non-black person about this, bc so far , the only nuanced takes I saw didn't come from white folks, but as always, Vera, You make my day with how you approach difficult topics, and while I don't always agree with your points, but I always appreciate them, so thank you for making this video and others.
As a polyam person, the discourse about Will and Jadas relationship being inherently cheating and toxic has been uhhh… not very fun lol. Nice to know how a large number of people would think of me and my relationships if they knew. It’s like “well i guess I prolly won’t tell you about me then.” And that always sucks.
Not saying their specific relationship and communication aren’t toxic, I generally haven’t done much research on them specifically. But there’s def a LOT of people framing the relationship as toxic specifics because of non monogamy.
As usual, I like your thoughtful video. It is really important to see everyone's point of view and not just take a side, find a scapegoat and hate anyone who thinks differently.
My humble perspective: growing up in the Caribbean, I had a bit of a crush on the Prince of Bel Air turned Bad Boy. Then came out Bad Boy 2 and, in the interviews, Will Smith made discriminatory comments on Haitians and expressed that he despised poor people in general, while in the movie, US police officers illegally chased a suspect to Cuba and ran over a slum in the process, destroying poor people's houses. At the time, my mom, my brother and I (Haitian immigrants having fled to Martinique with next to nothing) watched in disbelief. My little brother even temporarily gave up on his high-top hair cut.
This year, Will Smith got an Oscar for playing the role of Richard Williams and said in his teary speech that it had inspired him to protect his family. "King Richard" is a movie about two amazing female athletes in a family that includes five high-achieving straight-A sisters and a strong, hard-working mother, but the movie is framed entirely from the perspective of the one man. It focuses not on the achievements of Venus and Serena Williams but on their father's strength of character, in a biased and partial way, without developing his shortcomings (for example, among his several wives, Serena and Venus's mother divorced him for alleged domestic abuse; and he had several other children whom he abandoned). Possibly like Will Smith, Richard Williams seems to have always planned to become rich and to have valued wealth particularly.
On the other hand, Chris Rock has talked about being bullied in the past. That made him an easy target for violence, but I agree that making the documentary "Good Hair" should have also taught him that that joke could be taken as bullying. It seems he did not write it himself but he could have chosen not to make it.
With less enthusiasm, I still watch Will Smith's movies even after his rather racist comments about Haitians and poor Blacks in the US. Maybe he went too "method" and channelled Richard Williams as he explained.
I love most of Chris Rock's satirical skits that address social inequalities but also ask Black men to rise above the undesirable stereotypes that exist within the Black community. I wish Will Smith watched those skits too because he really behaved and spoke like a "gangsta" stereotype we really do not need anymore - if we ever did.
Sorry it ended up being so long.
I sad-laughed at the parenthetical in the video title because I just got done trying to explain to someone online, yet again, that no, hitting a person when you're upset is _not_ "common" behavior... in a thread about The Slap. 🤦 (The last time it came up was about someone who punched holes in their drywall. _No. "Everyone" _*_doesn't_*_ do that, actually._ )
Like Vera, I don't know what personal history exists between Rock and Smith, or Smith and Smith, and I'm not really invested in learning. It's gross that this happened and has already caused ugly responses from ugly people. So many seem eager to pick a side or condemn both, and I'm just backing away because... really? I don't want to keep having the same conversations over and over.
To me the way some people are framing this event comes across as equivocating the two. And that's a problem. Because, while yes it's true that they're both in the wrong... What Will Smith did IS worse, than what Chris Rock did. A world where we make equivocations or excuses for violence begets us more violence. Remember, it's up to all of us to create culture. And short of self defense, violence should not be accepted or tolerated.
People are doing that because there are many others who are portraying Chris as this epitome of Grace...
That's hella lot irritating too.
For he's not.
That's why the other bunch try to equivocate the two
The layers of this are really interesting great video thanks 😊 for me I'm of the view that bad taste jokes should be addressed with constructive criticism rather than punishment. Seeing people frame violence as a justified consequence is making me very uncomfortable. Also people viewing Jada as the manipulator and Will as a victim reeks of misogyny to me.
The joke was in incredibly poor taste, and shouldn't be allowed to go without consequences, though a violent reaction doesn't sit right with me. The thing is, I'm not going to outright condone Will Smith having a strong reaction either because I cannot comfortably make the judgement on what happened to result in that reaction. There is risk of a bad precedent being set, but equally people can discuss that point without attacking people based on information we don't even have.
One thing is clear; we all know a bit about Alopecia now. I think it was the most effective awareness of illness campaign ever done.
Didn't know it, did not know Jada had it, did not know what it intended, did not know that apparently a collegue of mine had it as well but sure do now...😅
I... don't really know how to feel about this either except for the fact that it's funny as hell
Thank you for this
I'm just still... so baffled.
The way I was absolutely inundated on twt, the way takes went from sorta reasonable to... the wildest, most speculative things...
Mainly just left me like... wow people really will take the most minimal sand grain and spin it into a mountain for??? Anything and everything really
Thank you for your thoughtful perspective on this issue that everyone can’t seem to stop buzzing about.
Great video. Thanks for the well thought out, analytical and fair take on the situation.
I love your videos and I love he way you sign off at the end. my fiancee watched this video with me and she said your sign off made her a little weepy.
Mel Gibson was probably trending cuz a bunch of celebs were saying stuff like "this is the worst thing to ever happen at the Oscars" and the like
I love these kind of videos, thank you for makimg it!
I have had similar feelings of these types of "social events" before, not always but I did actually have the same experience here because it's just such a chaotic mess and similarly, I'm not sure how I feel. There's arguments against everything, and equally for, and so many are so hard to weigh against each other because it's just not something that I can really judge with the insane amount of layers and tangential tethers to other topics or broader discussions that I just feel frustrated seeing so many people getting so worked up over their answer being the right one...when it just isn't that simple and is why I've tried to just avoid discussions entirely as much as possible. I can see various different paths of Will going from laughing to angry, including maybe it being a default response until it settled among those you already brought up, and equally I don't know if or why this would be planned but regardless, it serves no benefit. The amount of tweets I've seen of people saying "I still don't care about the Oscars" is astonishing, and I think I've seen one tweet about the actual winners and that was showcasing how some production members/teams are not the ones highlighted vs big names, which is another unrelated topic that deserves more attention than a lot of the mania this has brought up but again, not necessarily every topic. It's such a big bundle of mess that frankly I'm just taking a step back and trying to breathe
The lens through which I've been seeing this incident has been a legal/societal one. Technically, what Will Smith did is battery, which is usually considered a misdemeanor in California. However, these sorts of situations usually don't legally escalate unless the victim of the battery chooses to press charges and pursue the matter in court. From what I've heard so far, Chris Rock has refrained from doing so, most likely because the majority of society (himself possibly included) will have seen Will's slap as a deserved consequence of his joke. This exemplifies a current dichotomy between what the law deems appropriate for the functioning of society and what people personally deem appropriate. Despite the act of slapping being illegal, it is socially acceptable in certain circumstances such as when women slap men in anger or such as when Will Smith did it to Chris Rock to protect his wife's honor. I can't claim that Chris Rock's joke wasn't deserving of a slap, but Will still shouldn't have gone through with it because the law makes slapping illegal for a reason. While slapping (assuming it doesn't fall into the realm of abuse) in itself may not be as egregious as punching or some other type of battery, it is still a violation of another's person. Also, the act of slapping can quickly escalate into more serious forms of violence if not put in check. Therefore, I am of the opinion that any form of unsanctioned (such as in professional wrestling) or non-consensual (such as in the kind of sex that some people like to have) slapping is wrong. I empathize with Will Smith's position, but there were other ways he could have gone about defending his wife at The Oscars such as demanding that Chris Rock give a public apology during the ceremonies.
May I emphatically disagree as to why I think Chris did not press charges? To hand a Black man over to the LAPD, whether you think that they ought to be charged or not, is not something that any other Black man with a trace of grace or consideration would do, unless they thought their own lives were in danger. Considering Chris' own history, I could not imagine him pressing charges against Smith when the LAPD was going to be the ones handcuffing a Black man. No offense to most officers, who are good guys, but you cannot be certain of the safety of any Black person being arrested and if something had happened, Chris would have been blamed for it.
@@eshbena You may very well be right about that. It could also be a combination of both.
0:16 Glad you oppened with this, honestly there were a lot of bold/good choices for winners this year, one of the more interest set of in a long time.
All Smith needed to do was yell at him. Just as he did after the slap. He never should’ve gone up to assault Rock.
I've just said a similar thing. There were any number of other ways Smith could have responded and while I'm certainly not defending Smith's actions (or Rock's words), Rock was lucky it wasn't a punch.
Thank you for discussing this topic, not the slap, but the discourse.
Excellent commentary.
As a white person, I personally am removing my thoughts and feelings about the situation from this whole thing. I'm instead deferring to black voices, because I've already seen a number of black people going into great detail about how the nuances of this situation are rooted exclusively in black culture. As such, none of us should be speaking over black voices, and us white people just need to sit this one out essentially.
Yes this. Exactly this. I'm staying in my lane.
I feel like we shouldn’t remove ourselves from talking/thinking about it just because of the race of Will and Chris. I can understand that policy with some other sensitive topics but by removing ourselves it’s just feels like we are treating them differently because of their race which is never good. I know there are some nuances to it particularly on hair importance and defending partners but at the end of the day they are just two people feeling understandable emotions. What someone is willing to say to make people laugh and that split second decision of how to defend somebody you love is something we’ll all be faced with at some point, although maybe not in front of millions of people. As you say though we shouldn’t ‘speak over black voices’ but we should always keep talking and listening.
@@LookinLikeMagic it's simply not ours to have an opinion on.
@@LookinLikeMagic it's not "treating them differently" because the "way things are done" isn't "how white people do things."
Exactly! Thank you for saying this. Thank you for having the common sense that a lot of people lack
Back in 2010, this lady stormed the stage and interrupted a man that won for best short film
Before I started this video, my opinion was this - humiliating and assaulting people is never okay, not in public, not in private. In different ways, Mr Smith and Mr Rock are both guilty of that. But in *absolutely equal measure*, I have zero space from which to judge either of them, or Mrs Smith. Hm. That last one felt weird, because I was reducing her to her married name. Not respectful like I was going for. But point being, I am not black, I do not work in Hollywood, I am not a celebrity. I do not know these people, their lives, their struggles or the struggles of their families and communities. I'm slowly working on dispelling my ignorances and prejudices but it's only gotten so far as understanding that I know almost nothing, so am in no fit place to judge any of these people. As human beings, sure - try not to assault or humiliate, we can all agree that avoiding those things is best. But they aren't just amorphous human forms - they're real people with histories I cannot comprehend, so I'm left in a place of bafflement. In honesty, it's probably not a bad thing - not assuming you know and have passed good judgement is a safer place to be than totally sure of yourself, most of the time.
My only additional thoughts after the video were that it doesn't seem all that strange for someone to notice a loved one has been injured in some way by something they had dismissed for whatever reason, then immediately turn on the offensive towards the threat. Adrenaline is amazing, gets you going reeeeeal fast. I've gone from having a good time to on my feet, ready to throw down when something has shocked me into action (usually with a strong emotional motivation). So it never really occurred to me before this to want to see what happened in between the laughter and the stride down the stage but after hearing different theories about it, compassionate and otherwise, it does sound interesting. But since I hadn't flagged it as a point of concern before, I'm happy staying in that place. He's been doing a lot of journeying and expressing himself lately, Will Smith. Usually comes with a bit of emotional upheaval, sometimes big reactions to things. Makes sense to me, as did his apology.
Okay, Vera, you got me. 😁 Like you said, this has drawn people in from all over the place on a spiral of tangents, and I confess, I'm one of those people. Ever since this thing kicked off, I've been watching WAY TOO MUCH media about it, and all the while thinking "WHY am I so obsessed with this? WHY do I care THIS much?" And within the first few minutes of your video and your words about the multitude of angles and politicization of it, it hit me.
For me, it was the "Jada Pinkett-Smith is an abusive narcissist" rabbit-hole that it went down. That's a trigger for me personally, having grown up with a narcissist; I have this need to figure them out and determine how to 'fix' the situation for their victims (in this case, allegedly, Will Smith,) possibly because I couldn't do that for myself. (It's also why I got into such an unhealthy obsession with following all the news about Trump - god, THAT was especially depressing in the last couple of years!) But that was just me; as you said, this debacle encompassed a whole buffet of rabbit-holes (wow, that's a crap metaphor, but I'll go with it anyway...) that can pull so many people in from so many different angles. That's how this thing got so big.
I will say though, that I was NOT impressed with Rebel Wilson, later on in the show after The Slap and Will Smith's weird acceptance speech. She made a joke at Will Smith's expense, *to his face* that --- well, sheesh, that was just NASTY. Like, mean, kick-a-man-when-he's-down nasty. With the cruelty of that joke, plus the timing of when she decided to make it, and factoring in that he *of course* wasn't going to go up and slap a woman, it almost felt like she was deliberately baiting him, like "Hey, I can be as horrible as I like to you, because, let's face it, after everything that's already gone down tonight, you're just going to have to sit there and suck it up, aren't you?" Yes, Will Smith shouldn't have 'resolved' his beef with Chris Rock by slapping him, but for Rebel to actively GOAD him while knowing he wouldn't dare to retaliate... well, I think that's another kind of bullying, and it just made her look tacky and cowardly.
My big takeaway is how many people are performatively reacting to an incident involving celebrities while claiming they don’t care about celebrity culture because everyone narcissistically thinks they need to virtue signal their morally correct take over a fucking slap - an incident that wouldn’t rate at all on the list of the top thousand things of bad things that happened in your own fucking city that night. People are fucking sheltered and pearl-clutching over nothing because they feel compelled to have a take and be part of the discourse. For fucks sake some people out there need to face some real problems.
I think you did a pretty good job. I'm imprssed and so shall subscribe.
Something that was discussed immediately after it happened, but I haven't heard much since:
Celebrity Privilege
Will Smith is a higher tier celebrity than Chris Rock. When Smith stormed the stage, there was no security; when Smith hit Rock, no security response; when Smith left the stage, no response.
The only responses during and after The Slap: Silence, Will Smith consoled by his friends (Denzel Washington, Tyler Perry, and Bradley Cooper), then an Acceptance Speech/Apology from Will Smith.
If the situation had been reversed, Chris Rock would not have gotten that leeway.
Three cheers for nuanced thought.
Why are jokes about appearance ok. Making fun of anyone's appearance isn't satire. It isn't making fun of their power or privilege or fame; it's just insulting their appearance or comparing them to someone else.
I have never understood why anyone finds jokes about appearance funny.
The only time I've found them acceptable is when it's being used to deride horrible people. Ie saying Andy Warhol looks like (insert gross thing/physical attribute) but it's still kina iffy because if, for example, it's joke about his weight; well then other people are overweight so is it okay to make the same jokes about them too?
The answer to that is largely no, I know. Just thought I'd bring this argument up myself before someone else did it as a response to my thinking these kinds of jokes aren't okay.
You know what else isn’t okay. Putting your hands on someone and slapping them. Chris Rock is not at blame here since Will acted in a completely cowardly manner by putting his hands on someone without consent.
I think the reason these jokes are common is because you can't know someones anything by looking at them, in exception to how they look. So it's easy to make a visual joke based on appearance, the audience doesn't need to do anything but look over to verify the comparison to get the 'joke'. You have to be acutely aware of who the subject is for a joke about their character or actions to even click with the audience. Especially with a main stream event with wildly different groups of people at the event&watching it at home. It just makes it easy to quickly fire some things off quickly in the allotted window of time without confusing anyone. It's kinda junk food comedy. If that makes sense?
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@@T0xXx1k Yeah that makes sense and I get that's just how comedy works sometimes. Every comedian has their own style but the Oscars isn't a comedy show.
@@keithkoganeislife3144 I never said anything about Chris
@@eireannbullimore7763 no but it's made to appeal to as wide an audience and be at easily digestible as possible. I'm not defending any part of it just I know why it was done that way.
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Im just putting this here before i watch the video fully. Thank you for highlighting Ariana's win. Ive been a fan of hers for a while and am really excited she won AN OSCAR!
The people who think Will Smith was right to hit Chris Rock must not be living in the real world if they think everyday people can go up and just hit people if they are upset by something they say.
It sounds like you're taking one argument and turning it into a completely separate argument
@@kat8559 how isn’t it the same argument? Smith hit someone because he didn’t like what they said in front of an entire audience of famous people and millions of people on television and then struts away like he did nothing wrong.
In the real world, people who pull the sort of shit Chris Rock pulled here *do* actually catch hands for it on the regular. Anybody who's ever worked in a bar - or indeed a school! - knows that .
@@gozerthegozarian9500 not really because Rock was doing his job being a stand up in a comedy sketch. If he randomly yelled that in a street it would be different
I am guilty of getting involved in this discourse (admittedly to the detriment of sanity to some extant) and tried to look at the situation with nuance. I have got into some arguments about this debacle, but luckily left the chat and didn't resort to name calling. I have also been guilty of bringing up people who have nothing to do with this situation. I'm impressed on how you handled it because I have been waiting for a video like this for a while. As black person I seen people both within and outside of my community divided on this subject, if support Will then you condone assault, if you support Chris, you support ableism. Its a huge mess and I have to the point were I didn't want to here anyone's opinions on the matter because I knew what was coming. I don't want people to lose friends over this mess. The more we find out, the more this rabbit hole of misery is going to continue. I wish that incident never happened and I really hope this doesn't end in tragedy. I don't know why I think the later, I just do. God bless, stay safe.✌
My take on the fact that one person physically assaulted someone who might have disrespected his wife? None of my business. Whether or not it happens in front of a camera it’s other peoples personal lives