Where Does Allen Iverson Rank All Time? | Bill Simmons’s Book of Basketball 2.0 | The Ringer
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2020
- In this excerpt from ‘Book of Basketball 2.0,’ Bill Simmons breaks down the NBA career of Allen Iverson, discusses his cultural impact off the court, and gives his all-time ranking for the legendary point guard.
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MJ was a superhero growing up... Iverson was like the one of your boys making it...
@J P Both can be true
To you lol Iverson was a superhero also
AI was a superhero. Jordan has the body and physical traits to justify his dominance. Iverson had actual super powers. His speed and endurance were inhuman.
I'm born 88, Iverson was a super hero to me, man, I had those Reeboks and thought nike was lame
If James Harden had Iverson's heart, he would have at least one championship.
Iverson won zero with his own heart
@@robesterd8132 being 5,10 165 and with no ofensive help imagine him 6,5 205 pounds and a better shotter and passer Thats harden but with no "Heart" and a Lot more offensive help
@@kevyn1409 "better shooter" lol you must mean 3s
@@kevyn1409 he played with Melo for like 3 years
I feel like Bill’s appreciation for AI is a real reason why I’m a fan of Bill Simmons.
Bill did Darius Miles dirty at the start LMAO.
I'm work in a shop that he comes into weekly. Very kind, loves to talk basketball. It's always a pleasure to see him.
I love these excerpts. They celebrate what was awesome about players, instead of constantly wondering "what could have been though?"
That was a accurate take in terms of the sentimental reason's why he was beloved, if someone who wasn't around during that time doesn't really understand the "why?". It doesn't help with an all time ranking but it makes the devotion and respect fans have for him make complete sense.
Pound for pound the best little guard in NBA history. Much respect to Allen Iverson aka “the answer” ✊🏽
Yea you forgot about Isaiah lol
@@stringer2295 If Isaiah did everything in his career clean, maybe, but nope
This is a really good video, Bill!
Love that u circled T-Mac as “I need to see this guy” he was unreal in his prime
Seeing iverson live was on another level
Iverson got a game in the Finals with a pretty mediocre team against one of the best teams ever in that Lakers v Sixers finals
Calling that team pretty mediocre is generous man. It was almost impossible.
Casual take. That team had the DPOY and the 6MOY. That team also had the best defense in the league ,Iverson didn’t contribute to that.
@@jshonsmith3399 Take A.I. off they win 20 games max
@@a.nicholas7668 facts
@@a.nicholas7668 lol that’s a silly and casual argument. Take any best player off any team (especially a team without a second superstar) and that’s gonna happen.
Killer video Bill
That 47 hurt when I heard it
Smh these fools are bugged out.💯
He is anywhere from 50-40, dont think there is any argument for him being higher than 35
@@hardwoodthought1213 id love to hear your 35 or more better than him,
Best Bill Simmons hoops essay ever --
I don’t think anyone thinks AI is in the top tier of players all time, but there’s something to be said for someone his height playing the way he did. In the early 2000’s he might have been the most famous player in the league. That post MJ era with AI, Duncan, Kobe, Vince, TMac, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce will always stand out to me because it’s when I first really started paying attention to basketball. Now we are in the era of Instagram workout videos with players going half speed and doing nothing but practicing spinning one legged 3 pointers from 30 feet away.
Why isnt he in the top tier of players
A living legend
Iverson is one of examples on why people who hadn't played a single basketballl game, only looks at stats, and "rInGs MeAsuRe GrEatNesS" should not talk about how great a player is. Cause AI has a lot of "intagibles" in his game. If you understand the game enough, you'll love AI.
Yeah, he also had a lot of "bad" intangibles to his game as well. Feuding with coaches, creating divisions in the locker room, refusing to accept coaching, ect. When you only look at the good and refuse to acknowledge that bad, all you do is create misconceptions and fantasy. AI was a phenomenal player, but there's more to playing basketball than exciting moves, high intensity, and bulk stats.
@@engar-dug5197 so he’s not great because he didn’t like his coaches LOL. Typical non athlete response. Look at guys like Draymond, Young Kobe, KD with the warriors and even Olajuwon. Guys who HATED their coaches and still won.A few of them are top 20 guys lol. You have no clue lol
@@engar-dug5197 True. Don't forget that he never liked to lift weights so that probably was a factor in some of his injuries. AI had a heart of lion and is on a Mount Rushmore list of players who changed the culture, but he had major flaws also.
@@ckthegreat100 If AI had the brain of a guy like Magic, Bird, Lebron, Kobe, or Nash, he'd be in the GOAT conversation
Instead he liked scoring more than winning. Pretending that's not true and an issue is silly
well said Bill
but as far as rankings its def above 47
AI is the reason I started watching basketball. He was my first true basketball icon. He was larger than life to me.
Iverson wasn't an ex-con, bill. I know you wanted to do the juxtaposition for the poetry of it, but calling him an ex-con and flashing that photo ignores the circumstances behind that racial railroading of a young black teen, and you know this. You are after all, still a journalist.
The literal reason why I started watching basketball & started hooping
I think my love and appreciation for Iverson is probably similar to a lot of his fans, he was an incredibly flawed human being who put it all out there. He knew who he was, knew he wasn't perfect, didn't pretend to be polished, he was honest and went out there and gave a shit every night. When he played for the Olympic team, our worst of the pro era, he was the only one who really articulated the pride he felt for playing, he seemed to be the only one who approached the games with such reverence that year. In an alternate world I'm so curious to see what would it have been like for him to play football. He made the right choice with basketball but still, wish I could see what could have been.
Bill Simmons is a national treasure.
was one of the few players in the 90~00's that was "extremely" popular amongst younger nba fans, AI, Penny and Jason Williams.
Bill Hard 4 Allen Simmons!
0:50 - The first time I saw Iverson in person, he was held to five points because of the Pistons intense defense
Number crushers will never understand the impact a player can have on the game past what appears on a sheet. What guys like Iverson, Maravich and Cousy did was league changing
Maravich wasn’t a winner though. I think you’re confusing the names with the reality.
@@raypetree9372 I'm not saying he was a winner, I'm talking about the influence on thr game he had. Pistol Pete was one of the first real showmen in the NBA and really helped to pioneer both modern ball handling and jump shooting. Iverson, past his 01 finals run, also wasn't exactly much of a winner, was horribly inefficient etc, but changed the league with things like his ball handling, swagger, toughness and style. The guy practically started the player empowerment era! When I talk about their huge impact on the game, I'm not talking about what they did for their teams, I'm talking about what they did for the sport
@@raypetree9372 neither was Iverson though. He had the one deep playoff run but still got smoked in the Finals. You do understand he played other years right?
He was fun to watch and I own two of his jerseys. However there’s no denying he was a highly inefficient shooter and sucked on defense (yes yes I know he got steals…there’s more to defense than steals).
And the reason the arm sleeve exists in the first place
Mj introduced me to basketball Ai made me love it 💯
all that to rank him 47
Like what kind of 6 minute long disrespect
Two things:
To be #47 considering just how many players have played in the NBA isn't an insult.
That said, having him at #47 is Bill being generous. Any knowledgeable die hard basketball person, divorced from the emotion of fandom, can name 46 players better than Iverson. Off the top of my head, I can name 20 guards, 25 forwards and 7 centers who were/are better than him as a player.
@@thomascrowniii1693 Please name those 20 guards lol
@@afrosamurai125 This is the best I can do...(no particular order) Jordan, Magic, Isiah, Kobe, Nash, Drexler, Steph, CP3, West, Fraizer, Robertson, Cousy, Stockton, Kidd, Payton, Wade, Harden, Westbrook, Lillard...this is by no means definitive and I don't agree with some of the dudes I listed, just wanted to see how many guards I could say are arguably better than AI
@@thomascrowniii1693 thank you sir. Too many fanboys and wanna be thugs always emotional over this dude. He was a cancer to both his teams and the league, it’s a miracle the league didn’t collapse with him being one of the faces. Him being 47 is an achievement for a dude who didn’t win shit
Lmao Bill Simmons is tripping with that soccer take.
I think he's joking a bit about that like a tongue in cheek take. It's very unlikely that Iverson would have been the greatest ever, but Bill is saying his physical skill set would be ideal for excelling at soccer.
@@kyleking8656 I still disagree because nothing about his game says he would be good with the ball at his feet. There's no way to know at all
@@timehinakinde Of course, but the implication would be if he chose to play and train at soccer his entire life instead of basketball. Basically if he grew up playing soccer his entire life, with his elite physical attributes, he could have been a phenomenal soccer player.
He referred to Messi as a midfielder, Bill was definitely making comparisons in uncharted waters
was that Bruce Bowen o n the sixers?
Iverson was the first star I became a fan of who made me love the NBA. If Curry's impact is kids now chucking threes, everyone was trying to crossover like the Answer during his heydays.
And wear cornrows and baggy attire (I'm Asian so my parents find the latter confusing)
Yeah, his crossover was amazing. He could create his own shot at will. Unfortunately he then _missed_ that shot 57% of the time throughout his career.
Iverson is in a class of his own.
Yeah, _low_ class.
Iverson is simultaneously overrated and underrated.
you're half right. he's not overrated.
@@realnfnkalyan in a way he is overrated and I really like Iverson. But he never really made his teammates better, his shot selection was just piss pour and his lack of awareness to make the right play was always questionable. He was Westbrook before Westbrook. Granted I know they both won an MVP, but when you have the ball that much and the usage is up, it can be very inflated. I still like Iverson tho, he was fun to watch but also frustrating as I got older.
He's overrated in the sense that a lot of people in my generation have him on the same level as Kobe, Duncan, Garnett and others.
@@mattcomer6379 he was on their level. he just never had a good team to consistently win
@@jessehargrove6737 He had Carmelo for a couple years and couldnt win. And the Nuggets got better AFTER trading Iverson. Not good enough to be the best player on a championship team
отличный разбор бро!
Bills the goat
❤️❤️❤️
Iverson is iconic
So true I was always a iverson over Kobe guy during that time he just had that it factor even tho Kobe was better
How is kobe better
To answer the question in the title (where does Allen Iverson rank all time?) we have to ask another one first:
Are we talking about in practice or in the game?
That’s why kyrie handling so good. Look at 1:59. Anybody who knows kyrie knows this move. Shout to Iverson
How the fuck are there 46 players better than A. I all time? He was mvp of the league. Dominated for over 10 years. Actually carried a franchise
This guy is unreal
There's a highlight were AI gets shut down by Shaq or Kobe and then comes back the very next play, gets triple guarded, deeks out Kobe, cuts INTO SHaq and lays it up over the big man while surrounded by gold jerseys JUST to prove a point. I've never seen anything like it, kinda reminds me of Larry Bird (balls, heart, finish).
Facts
Except for the part where Bird was one of the greatest shooters of all-time and Iverson was an atrocious bricklayer.
What does he have Steve Nash at? Only person I’ve seen carry a worse team the. AI to the finals was Lebron. 47 might be low but I need to see who he has over/under him
I disagree about the football player part. But still heard the podcast. Great as usual
How? He was Mr. Football no? Street and Smith ranking no.1
@@tyrismaxey I meant European footballer.
Wish Iverson got a ring
I don't know about all time basketball rankings, but if you talk about world wide cult like, ride till you die type of following... he's number 1.
Feels like, of all fans who loved their players, he's the most beloved by his, in my book.
FWIW, i grew up rooting for ppl like Robinson, Duncan, Hakeem and Derek Coleman. But these guys never had what i mentioned about AI.
AI and Kobe have a maniacal cult-like followings for a lot of the same reasons. They never cared what people thought about their respective games--they wanted to win at all costs and make you reconsider picking up another basketball ever again.
Apparently AI only slept like 2 hours a night ,dude was wired different
No Iverson wouldn't never be the best soccer player ever
For sure, but Bill is right in saying a guy with that level of balance would have been amazing on the soccer field.
No-wouldnt-never? Jesus triple negative. Kudos.
Hes not saying in Soccer history, tard. Hes saying of guys that played in the NBA IF they chose soccer.
@@raisinbigdaddykane9723 probably some bum kobe or mj fan that hates that AI did all that in basketball but had talent outside of basketball
Bill I love your segments and I love AI but you can’t call a hypothetic situation “undisputed”. Messi is a football perfection.
Bill did. Iverson bad Iverson is a top ten player all time facts.
P4P GOAT!!
wtf dude really spent all that time praising him just to rank him 47??
Top 50 is kind of a big deal. Chill
Top 100 is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL. I can name 200 bball players right now that at some point someone thought they may be the best in the league. 47 is very very high
@@raisinbigdaddykane9723 Ok name them then because there's definitely not 200 players that have been the best in the entire league. Hell less than 50 have even won an MVP
One of the top 5 most influential players in NBA history. Arguably a top 5 most popular player in NBA history. I think this ranking is probably accurate or maybe you can put him up about 10 spots at most. I believe because he was so popular and influential, that his fans do tend to overrate his ON COURT value. He wasn't the all-around player, winner and leader that Isiah Thomas was. I do believe his style of play was at least slightly more style than substance and outside of his MVP 01 season where he carried that mediocre 76ers team to the finals, he never made it out past the 2nd round. That said, he was w/out question an all-time great talent/athlete and a well deserved HOF
Anyone can be a winner like isaiah if you injure the opposing team's best players
@@gangstagummybear3432 Man just stop. IT beat Bird, should have beaten Magic if not for horrible Lambier foul call in game 6 and was most likely going to beat him outright in 89 before Magic tore his hamstring, and beat America's "goat" MJ 3 years in a row. MJ finished all 3 of those series on the floor. They were OVERLY PHYSICAL and David Stern and the league intervened because they needed Jordan to be the face of the league going forward. Isiah earned every thing he was able to accomplish on the court. Love him or hate him.
@@Riles3152 You are interpreting my comments wrong, I'm on Isaiah's side.
We talking about practice.
The answer is a legend, Imagine if this dude was 6"7.
If the dude was 6 7 he wouldn’t play like the Allen Iverson we know today and part of Iverson’s charisma was that he was extremely short. He wouldn’t be at the same level he is today if he was 6 7.
@@unspeakablyawesomebros3392 facts people always add heights to these players without realizing how many intangibles they lose while getting taller
@@unspeakablyawesomebros3392 I think he would have, and the ability to post up and dunk normally wouldve been added to his game, jordan would be a past memory if AI was 6 6
@@gangstagummybear3432 Lol. Jordan was a _two-way_ player with MAD fundamentals. Iverson couldn't defend a newborn kitten and had _zero_ fundamentals. Just a streetball gunner.
When iverson arrived I loved the game. When he left, my love for basketball left♥️🥺
With that whole build up, I had a feeling Simmons would rank AI low. No way is he out of the top 20. AI revolutionized the game. Before him, guys his size were mainly distributors. You don’t get a Steph Curry, a Kyrie Irving, a Dame Lillard, a Trae Young, or a Ja Morant without AI.
Bruh he aint fkn top 20 lmao
@@neocarlton508 whos the 20 above him?
Late 90s when I was playing high school ball- EVERYONE wanted to be AI. Not Jordan. Not Kobe. Not Shaq. Not any of the other amazing players of that era. It was always AI.
They literally just describe Westbrook, then actually care about stats for him
Number 47 you sound nuts hes for sure top 20
i thought it said alien invasion
I feel like my whole life I have had to argue how Iverson was overrated. I always thought he was really good, but not the way everyone talked about him. His impact was way bigger then his game, and now that I'm older I can respect that aspect. I think 47 is pretty accurate.
Did mans say midfielder like Messi
Early 30's
i like what he says until Rank Only 46 ! 😕
Crazy how long ago that mvp year was. Nowadays he looks like a chubby Martin Lawrence wearing fedora hats with 2009 outfits
that soccer player part was so dumb- calssic uncle Simmons....
Interesting how Bill says AI had the tools to be a great soccer player because I compare AI to Neymar. Both arguably the most naturally gifted players in their respective sports, but also failed to meet their incredible potential because they didn’t devote themselves to their craft more. Ironically, their desire for work-life balance led to them being disappointing athletes. But still a thrill to watch both do their thing.
47? I got him at 29..... 30 to 35 is cool, but come on. Throw away the advanced stats, and look at the true body of work he put in.🤦🏿♂️💪🏿💯🏀
I mean, it’s not advanced stats to realize that he never won anything. I feel like Iverson is a lot like melo, an absolutely incredible player to watch who put a cap on his teams success if he was the best player. He needed another star and he never really had one, save that one year in Denver.
@@inwhichidie7171 ??? The whole basis is not whether he won a title or not, these so called experts use these arbitrary stats to gauge a generational talent like AI and its redundant. Of course he needed a star player what other superstar doesn't.
@@brandonethereal1084 How is it arbitrary to point out that he wasn't efficient? Getting the ball in the basket more often than the opponent is literally the whole point of basketball. He shot badly because he had to take all the shots on teams that had essentially no offense save for him. That's fine, I don't think it makes him a bad player or anything close to it, and as far as cultural impact goes he's top 4 or 5 all time, but I don't rate him in my top 30 as far as play goes. He wouldn't have even had that 2001 finals trip if david stern hadn't rigged that ECF for him and fucked the bucks over
@@inwhichidie7171 I didn't say it was arbitrary to point out that he was efficient. The stats these nerds just over analyze things and dont put things in perspective. We dont need to point out that he was ineffeciant when that's so obvious. Its like pointing out a girls a ho when she has sextapes for the world to see. We have the evidence already. Second I'll put him top 30 if I I want. I could be really biased and put him top 10.
@@brandonethereal1084 I mean, that's fine. Different people value different stuff. I personal rank players by how much better I think they would make an average team, and I that situation there are lots of others I would put above iverson. I do think that discounting any criticism of him as "stat nerds" is disingenuous, but hey, you do you.
When the refs are helping to rig a game, I feel A1 was justified at that time.
He carried a bucket of chicken to the 01 finals and got one game off an all time great Lakers team
And you think he couldn't win a title as your best player.
Imagine if he had had an actual robin
Who are you Bill? You seem confused.
Hes a bum
He says all of that but only ranks him 47th
A lot of what he said wasn’t basketball related tho. AI to me is between 35/40, but anyone ranking him top 30 doesn’t like basketball, they like highlights
@@hardwoodthought1213 what do you like if you dont rank him top 30? Whos in that elite club AI cant get in?
Apart from Jordan, Lebron and Kobe, no other player would be able to take that Philly team to the finals
Shaq
At the time no one in general would have been able to
maybe that's what's going on with Harden.
Unlike Kobe, he doesn't want to be like Mike. Harden wants to be like Iverson.
He's goofy though, terrible impersonation of Iverson if that's what he's going for on and off the court.
Larry Brown is what got the Sixers to the finals that year. He basically convinced an entire team of NBA players to let AI take all the shots while they played all the defense. Iverson couldn't and wouldn't defend anyone, which made him liability. Yes, he was a great scorer and an exciting player. However, such players do not win titles. The biggest drafting mistake the Sixers ever made was not taking Bryant with the first pick in 1996. It would have been a gamble, but Bryant had all the intangibles to be an all-time great, so he was worth taking a chance on. Iverson was always a guy who you knew would bring crowds but would never be someone who could win you a title. This is why many of us who follow the Sixers always look back on Iverson with some regret because we watched Bryant, who had ties to Philly, go somewhere and become one of the greatest of all time.
The players are what make the system work. There's a reason the '01 roster is objectively seen as one of the worst teams to ever make the Finals, even with the DPOY, COY, and the 6MOY.
The one year Iverson gave it 100% on and off the court (after nearly being traded to Detroit) is the same year the 76ers went to the Finals. It's not like Philly signed all these players in the 2000 off-season and the team suddenly became a contender because the roster and coaching staff were virtually the same in 1999 AND 2000 (give or take a couple guys).
Yes, I do agree that Iverson underachieved due to his antics, but that one season of greatness is enough for him to be validated as one of the greatest to ever play
Iverson had multiple years leading the league in steals, but sweet “Iverson couldn’t and wouldn’t defend anyone” take, dumbdumb
all that praise and then he says AI is ranked 47? LOL. if Iverson is a top 5 SG of all-time (which he is IMO), you gotta put him in the top 25 players of all-time
Historically SG hasn't been a very deep position only 4 shootings guards have ever won MVP. He can be top 5 or borderline top 5 and not be top 25. Around top 25 you have players like Nash and Pippen who are a tier above Iverson in my opinion
@@brianpaul8734 lol, i gotta get you off that soft crack you smokin
Iverson could of been one of the best soccer/Football players!!!!
Made it past the 2nd round once
When the Nuggets traded him for Billups they went from mediocre to a top 4 team
The one narrative I don’t like about ai is that his teams were bad.... um these weren’t some lebron pre heat cavs type teams, they were very competent teams, while offensively yes ai carried them, and that can’t be understated, they were a top two defense while having ai on the team who let’s be honest was a shit defender (which is ok) but anyone not what I call a lack of help if anything they helped ais weaknesses although I will agree they did need another true scoring option that team was not a bunch of scrubs
But that slack on defense could be picked up by lebron cause of his size, and scoring too cause of his size, it was alot to have one scorer 6 ft on a terrible offensive team in a very hard to score era
The comment re football (soccer) is annoying. US sports always make this argument about certain players, but the skillsets are totally different. You never hear the converse argument that Messi etc would have been great guards
This is peak Bill Simmons
Shame his Reggie Miller take is so bad by comparison 😂
Steve Nash would have been second when it comes to soccer, lol..
You CANT POSSIBLY NAME 46 PLAYERS on PLANET EARTH BETTER THAN ALLEN IVERSON. WTFFFFFF !!!
You kind of can, I have AI around 41 but can easily name 47 who are better or arguably better
@@hardwoodthought1213 The floor is yours go ahead, name em
I liked iverson and enjoyed his game. but this love song is way too much. iverson is a top fifty but there are at least 20 players I enjoyed watching more.
47? Really....
That was so shocking I assumed that was some sort of ranking I didn’t understand and not that Bill was saying 47th best all time lol.
Agreed. Bill's got him _way_ too high.
I'm not even a soccer fan but he wouldn't have even been close to being the best player ever, don't fool yourself thinking that soccer is this easy sport that just anyone with some quickness would have been able to play.
It’s not about that respectfully. Most American athletes are pushed into Basketball or Football, NFL. Most would have been amazing soccer players.
Top 35 bro
HE CHANGED THE NBA, simple. A.I. would destroy the league if he played today.
Yeah, changed it for the worse.
AI is at worst a top 30. I don’t wanna hear no whack nonesense like Harden or Westbrook or someone like that is better.
Facts
I get so irritated when I see all the garbage about Iverson being a great player. He was not even a good player. If there is anyone you wanted to shoot and have the highest chance of missing a shot, it was Iverson. He was a horrible teammate, uncoachable, and a loser. I read comments like "nobody could stop Iverson in his prime". Hell, everybody stopped Iverson in his prime and all throughout his career. His best 8 years he shot 439 from 2 and 305 from 3. That's his best! His best. That's not all-time great, it's just horrible. He had one skill and one skill only, he could shoot a lot. I have that skill.
I would agree but the fg% is high unless you find me the guy shooting 21.8 or 22.9 fga per game and having a higher fg% than AI, I saved you the work, MJ is the only guy career wide that did it, and he could dunk as a primary scoring attack
@@gangstagummybear3432 He could shoot a lot. Wow, that's impressive.
Bill's not a complete idiot so clearly the 'greatest soccer player ever' comment was tongue in cheek, but for those who don't know better, trust me, there's very little about Iverson or any NBA player that you'd be confident would automatically translate to what is an -entirely- different sport. It's like saying that a great hitter in baseball would automatically be an amazing boxer because of the power of his swing. It's nonsensical.
Better than Messi 🤣
Iverson would have been the best soccer player in the world? Nah man I say Steve Nash would have been a better soccer player.
Its certainly an interesting conversation especially with Nash FIRST loving Soccer/Futbol.
He wont do shit at football vs European teams ..he can be as good as mario gomez and not more than that
Lmfao 47!?!?
Bill, he would not be the greatest soccer player ever, and Messi is not a midfielder. Stop it.
cringe
Messi drops back in the field quite some now.
47 seems low?
Clown take.
Iverson stole an MVP from Shaq and only made 1 finals. His scoring titles was because he played nearly every minute and jacked up a ton of shots on awful efficiency.