Libertarian Caller Tries To Out-wit Sam Seder
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- Everyone knows what happens when Sam Seder debates a libertarian. Spoiler: it happens again.
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"I'm a libertarian..."
*proceeds to advocate for state seizure of land*
that wasn't it at all but nice try
@@desertsand8778 actually it was spot on.
@@123Patrick actually it wasn't at all.
@@desertsand8778 it actually was.
@@ganginfr4923 it actually wasn't
I never get tired of hearing a libertarian rediscover why government exists
I agree with that sentiment, because it’s hilarious to watch, but I _do_ actually get tired after awhile, hearing these copy-pasted, cookie cutter clowns, stumbling around in the dark, fumbling and stuttering with their own words, constantly trying to search their memories on the spot for whatever _“enlightened” rich white guy_ they’re watching or listening to.
Though of course, how else would we deprogram these (obviously low information/misinformed) people without engaging with them? That’s part why I love Sam. He honestly has SO MUCH more patience than I would have with guys like these lol
I do, it seems like with every new generation we’re having to reiterate what older generations have known for decades.
My question is, does this represent a failure of our public school system? Because I learned this shit in middle school. How is it that 20 somethings are still in the dark about this?
@@realzachfluke1 I guess I was a little nervous and that made me a little less articulate.
All I said that I was a Libertarian. The only thing I fleshed out was that I believed in property rights, no regulations nor minimum wage.
I did facepalm when he asked me what community I had in mind and I responded with something that had nothing to do with the question. I'm not tone deaf towards my social mistakes and hopefully I can improve.
If you have any questions about the debate just let me know.
@Adrumpf Twittler What is the process of cleaning water?
@Adrumpf Twittler No! I'm mean the actual physical mechanics of cleaning water.
"Calling yourself a libertarian isn't a very nice thing to do to yourself"
Obliterated
🤣🤣🤣
I really don't get their stick!
Is like what do you stand for taxes are theft,free market is the way to go!
Am here like why are this ppl in civilized nation and don't live in the freaking jungle by their logic.
@@Carlos_Jzx either they don't want to start from scratch or they know libertarian ideology is completely ridiculous and would never work in a real world situation.
Right wing Libertarianism has been debunked so many times that it's a joke. It's college freshman thinking.
@Edgehead10075 Because 'free market economy™' sucks for anyone except the very top capitalists?
We shouldn’t have a big government, but we should have a “central authority” that does all the things the government does. Got it.
Central authority.. aka local government
it's called Communism LOL
Based. Let's call it a Central Committee and appoint a Chairman. Let a thousand flowers bloom.
More than that, let’s have all aspects of government in every town… all deciding every local grievance.
Imagine the shit show that would be trade and logistics.
Made me lol when he said “well if the people don’t like the car companies refusing to put safety measures in, then they should band together and enforce those measures” 🤦♂️
“I don’t necessarily believe in roads” may be my favorite libertarian quote of all time, that really gets to the heart of it huh?
I'm just gonna say this.
Roads are seriously unsustainable. We need more trains... No need for these gosh darn unsustainable "roads" that get filled with pot holes. Cars are equally unsustainable.
@@Sh4dxwxz what we really need are jetpacks!
@@Sh4dxwxz I think cars can be sustainable if we electrify and build for durability. Electric also makes cars last longer since they use many fewer parts, and the battery tech is ready for million mile batteries. But I do think you have a valid point that we should use more trains.
@@alexklick4836 If we use cars within a limited amount such as for only rural use and on a, no car ownership principle, it's possible but if we live within cities it isn't possible to make it sustainable. It induces demand to create infrastructure for cars. Social consumerism is driven towards car ownership when everyone has them. However the biggest problem is the induced demand that the infrastructure creates.
@@alexklick4836 cars should be rented as and when they are needed. Carpooling should be mandatory. Riding a bike for most journeys is doable within densely populated areas. We should. Multiple days of the week we're driving unless commercial is flat out banned. Public transport needs a big upgrade.
Libertarians: we don't need government because we can band together as groups of people to exert power. Say no to government, say yes to groups of people.
Lmao no more governments! Just groups of people governing
Marauder bands
Nice Strawman there buddy.
libertarianism is not anarchism
wtf are you talking about, veln is right, ridiculous strawman. no libertarian wants to exert power over people, the ideology fundamentally supports the opposite, let people live as they wish.
“Are you an electrician?”
“Somewhat, I’ve done some electronics”
Put the soldering iron away, bud. This mindset alone kills people every year.
rofl
Lmao, people lead you to believe things are hard because they wasted years of their life learning it when in reality most things are easy.
@@diesel92kj1 Thanks for being a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect
@@diesel92kj1 I had to rewire an entire floor of my home because we found out that the ignorant DIY'er who previously owned the place ran SPEAKER WIRE between a lot of the switches and fixtures.
Mind you I'm not against DIY. If you can install a $3 outlet by yourself so you don't have to pay an electrician $100-$150 to do it, I'm all for that. I used to do that all the time when I was younger to help my parents save money. But if you're going to wire an entire new build you best study up on the NEC basics, or else some poor slob down the road is going to pay for any mistake you make. I know we certainly had to. Don't be like that jackass who confused the lights for the sound system.
@@AdhamOhm Agree, do your research.
Caller: "I make more than minimum wage and still struggle."
"So you're saying we should raise the minimum wage?"
"No."
That was extremely bizarre. I still don't know why he brought up the minimum wage.
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280it’s because he defeated his own argument, he’s a moron
Or the wars in the Middle East as to deflect from walking into housing authority 😂😂😂
No Libertarian is broke. They are just a latent millionaire.
“I’m a libertarian, I believe in limited government ”
**starts expanding government where he sees fit**
"I dislike everything government does, except for the specific things it does that have helped me in the last 12 months"
@@theferrit32 "I dislike everything government does, except for the specific things it does that protect my property since I'm scared of all the immigrants"
I think I already established a limited government.
@@etherealturmoil no?
Typical libertarian shit
I imagined Michael Brooks laughing in the background and doing his incredibly funny impressions. Rest in Power Michael Brooks!!!!
Even to this date, it feels weird to know that we won't be able to see him on the show.
This one of the things I miss most about him, his laughter was so infectious and his mocking of libertarians was soooooo funny.
He would be fucking cackling, you wouldn't be able to hear anything for a second, and the caller would get awkwardly for a few seconds. Sam would wave him off and try to not start laughing himself. He is missed.
Micheal would have been laughing his ass off at this clown
Libertarians want to be socialists with out the responsibility of being a socialist.
They want to have the revolutionary aesthetic of the Left without actually being revolutionary. Or to put it simply, Republicans who smoke weed.
They want a clean house but they're not willing to take out the trash. They want electricity but consider paying the bill to be abusive. They basically just want a society of entitled babies who live off their parents.
This guy clearly lives with his parents and him dad picked his car out for him. That or he's got some old Camaro that's not firing on all cylinders, but he likes the noise.
Me trumps you and might is right.
@@patiotaiza They are what they claim leftist are basically
It took only 12 minutes for the caller to get from “I am a Libertarian” to “I don’t necessarily believe in roads”
"Just make an organization that can figure that out"
We did. It's called government.
The government requires force. That's the difference moron lol
@@Kirboe111 so I guess all the countries that didn't have that force weren't countries 🙄
@@Kirboe111 Oh shut up. Anyone who would comment that believes that ONLY the government can force you to do something and they would only think that because they're entitled.
If I have to provide another profit to survive than I'm as much FORCED to provide said profit as the government requires, if not moreso.
@@Kirboe111 and what would an organization do that has no power to protect anyone?
@@Kirboe111 if you rights are violated by other individuals (gangs, militia, etc), how would a libertarian gov protect you rights without use of force?
"I'm a Libertarian"
"Okay, what about the fire department?"
"No, get rid of it."
"Building safety codes?"
"No, no need."
"The police?"
"Oh yeah, we need that."
"The government reclaiming privately-owned land?"
"Sure, sometimes."
"Safety regulations for cars?"
"No, no need. The businesses won't do bad things."
Lol. What idiosyncratic nonsense is this???
"businesses won't do bad things."
you mean like child labor and lead based paint?
or maybe dumping sewage in fresh water sources and sweatshops.
@PremierSportingKC
Libertarian nonsense, of course.
"I *DO* believe in *the MILITARY* "
Lol ive never heard a libertarian say they were so in favor of governmental control of land ownership.
@@veenoir1991 if a left leaning person were to say that the government should seize unused private property they would immediately be called a communist by any right winger or centrist.
Some libertarian "jibber jabber" in a time like this is what the doctor ordered.
I pity the fools.
Brendan's remark at the beginning was priceless. I love this show, but its hard to listen to the libertarian debates because it's just not fair. We already know Sam will wipe the floor with them. They still keep coming though.
Well said! XD
AMEN
Take whatever road you want to the Library, what you're talking about is JIBBA' JABBER!
I love how he first acts like he has all the time in the world to learn to be an electrician so he can do his own home inspection in lieu of building codes, but then later in his golf ball story he exclaims he doesn’t have time for solving it.
Libertarian world: everybody should be the master of everything so they don't get screwed over in the absence of a central authority and regulation - of which we have now, and of which has worked for hundreds of years.
But what I think he was saying here is that everybody ELSE should extensively learn electicity, HVAC etc. so they don't get screwed over by their libertarian-world landlord - time is no factor. But for him: HIS time is limited.
_"If you don't have money, you burn"_
That could be the official Libertarian motto. It explains their entire philosophy.
Their motto should be "government tyranny bad, corporate tyranny good"
@@AnArchyRulzz DON'T TREAD ON ME UNLESS YOU'RE NAMED REEBOK NIKE OR SKECHERS
@@AnArchyRulzz Libertarians are actually very pro-small business, we're the type of people to shop at local stores instead of Target or support the competition to big corporations.
@@dayniel2 and then vote to make it harder for those local stores to exist.
@@dayniel2 oh yeah, you're so pro-small business that you're also pro-collusion, monopoly, and oligopoly. Lmfao please.
This guy clearly thinks he's quite a bit more clever than he actually is.
A universal truth about right-wing libertarians...
the dunning kruger effect
Like all libertarians of his ilk.
@ the school of dunning kruger is what it should be called😂
@Edgehead10075 Nah, there's just a sweet dirt hill down the street he wants to jump his dirt bike from
That's the base of his whole ideology
Libertarianism is, ironically, an ideology only possible to develop after you’ve obliviously grown up with all the safety and opportunity provided by a centralized government.
Wrong. Government comes after. But you're too stupid to understand that lol.
@@Kirboe111 can you actually explain what was incorrect? You just saying someone is wrong and calling them stupid is what I would expect someone who doesn't know what they are talking about would say.
@@Kirboe111 government comes after what?
@@Kirboe111 an adult man using LOL should mean banishment on political franchise of said individual.
Yep. They have all these laws and codes in place to protect them so they think people just naturally don't do fucked up things and those laws and codes are unnecessary not realizing people's greed in a capitalist society turns them into monsters
This guy strikes me as one who doesn't like regulations but when something goes wrong he's the first one crying why that happened to him
so just an average libertarian?
This argument sounded soo much better in his mind when he was stoned with his mates...
@Johnny Fishfingers I think you're right. Weed doesn't make stupid, it opens up and slows down. It shows absurdities you hadn't seen before.
Alcohol does what is described above, making what goes on in your mind seem way more interesting than it is.
Haha, yes.
Herman M
Weed makes logical reasoning much harder in my experience
can you specify which ideas were dumb?
@@NN-sp9tu Weed makes me more perceptive than I normally am; like I'll notice things I normally wouldn't and make connections between things easier; but at the same time, it makes thinking contemporaneously more difficult.
he just replaced the word "government" with "community"
When he says he believes in "small government" he literally means *SMALL* government LMAO! It's not about limited involvement of government, it's just that the government is smaller, like the size of your neighborhood, and therefore has even greater direct control over your life as if your neighbors all don't like you, this "community" can do whatever the hell they want.
@@isaiahphillip4112 Dude is for MORE government that fixes his window and punishes golf courses, and LESS government that regulates "car flipping." It's very specific and we wouldn't understand it, but also definitely a generalizable world view.
@@isaiahphillip4112 we have this thing called “municipal”,”state”,”federal “
Government 😂
Yeah…. It already exists
"I'm small community"
@@RunForPeace-hk1cu yeah we do, but what they do can be challenged by bigger government.
*Sam:* _"Last caller.."_
*Caller:* _"I'm a Libertarian..."_
*Brendan:* _"How does this happen every time..."_ 😛😂😂
Sounded like Brendan was hoping to get out early. 🤣
jamie's face bursting with excitement as the guy say "I'm a libertarian"
The caller really didn't get how happy he made Sam :-)
@@Daneelro most libertarians think that they won the debate
END THE FED AND ERASE THE PUBLIC SECTOR
ABOLISH DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
PRIVATIZE AND DEREGULATE HEAVEN AND EARTH
CORPORATE NEO-FEUDALISM NOW!
So it sounds like dude became a full libertarian because someone broke his window and didn't pay for it.
Haha
But the window anecdote contradicts his ideology. It should have pushed him away from libertarianism.
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280 Yes - it took the BIGGER state government to resolve the issue that the smaller city government would not. His smaller government ideology fell flat on its face in that story.
Caller: "I'm a Libertarian."
Sam Seder: "At first you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention."
"I'm this *insert ideology name*"
First question is asked...
"Ummmm, uhhhh, well..."
the eye brow raise followed by the lean back in the chair
Had a terrible week. Family bereavement. A libertarian caller in to the show has made me smile again.
Johnny Guillotine thank you kind sir
I’ve had a shit week too man. This cheered me up!
Sorry bro. I hope everything works out in the end. Keep your head up!
Chin up mate 🙂
My condolences to you and your family ❤️ Say, was it ever confirmed that Sargon's grandfather really is black? He said he is mixed in his most recent conversation with Destiny
This guy is so determined to miss every single point. It's almost awe-inspiring.
His parents told him he could be anything he wanted to be. Too bad he decided to be politically illiterate.
His usage of the word 'complicit' might have been my favorite thing.
I like how vapid people like you are when criticizing people. mind if you demonstrate some intelligence and explain what points were missed?
@@desertsand8778 Says the guy who is qualifying people of "vapid" while basing his critic over one commentary... how ironic. And if you aren't able to identify all the points missed by the caller (OP already said "every single point" BTW) then the onus to justify at least one point that was correctly addressed by the caller is on you.
For any non-utopist libertarian, all these points are pretty self-explanatory.
@Alyosha I like what you did there!
I love that when a woman jumps into the conversation, he starts to get an attitude lmao
hahahaha true
Haha, yeah, I regret how I treated her. Shes cool though
"I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that think Americans are not yet selfish enough."
- Christopher Hitchens
Thank you for that quote, it made me laugh. Hitchens was truly a gift to humanity.
@@默-c1r he most definitely was NOT, but he has his moments.
@@hmt4173 He did pretty great exposes of Mother Teresa, Kissenger, and the Clintons.
Funny thing is, Libertarians are not selfish. They are the opposite and they hate the idea of their charity money being wasted through the filters and bureaucracy of government. The selfish are the folks who think it is okay to use the force of government to steal from some to fund their charities.
@@DarkHorseSki ok bud
[Michael Brooks laughter in the background]
The feels. ☹
"I have a thought experiment for you..."
cackle
thanks i was laughing, now i’m crying
DaFeels
"I'm a libertarian, I don't want any government involvement, except for the military, and the police, and property rights, to be honest, I just don't like anything that helps the poor." - every "libertarian".
They're so... narrow with their definition for government roles. And they never seem to convincingly articulate exactly why those roles and nothing else.
Just want government brown shirts to enforce property rights for my apartments daddy left me
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Nice summary. They certainly believe in the survival of the fittest or the luckiest.
Siri, what’s a strawman fallacy?
The living wage argument was one of the most hilarious and pathetic bits ever. That copium laugh... My God 😬😬😬
Libertarians are so good at the “I’m insecure and you’re winning the argument, but I still wanna sound confident” laugh
The problem is that they think if they stay on the attack, they can appear to be winning.
@@ridjenite Probably because they watch too much Ben Shapiro XD
Everybody does this. Libertarians are wrong so often though its basically how they argue
Define "good at" lol
And the long “okaaaayy” while they think of a way to shift the goal post or change the subject.
“do u believe in building codes” “noo not really”
*cut to 2021 Miami condo collapse that left over 150 people dead or unaccounted for*
this is the future libertarians dream about
Yes it didn't age well
I mean his full stupidifty was on display. from this conversation, his stance would be that those 150 people didn't do there research. they should have gone to engineering school and gotten a degree in structural engineering. then canvased the whole condo before buying one....so really it's all their fault
@@allyabernathy4098 Their wet dream is a dystopian nightmare.
I would think that if you truly want a “do what you want as long as it doesn’t hurt someone else” kind of country than a building being built poorly and collapsing and killing people would be against that belief.
"If someone wanted to do something bad I'd just say no" is essentially this guy's whole argument against regulations
if you came with your armed militia and your oil rig i would simply deny you access to my land. good luck getting around that :)
@@mtlewis973 one shotgun will totally stop a well armed militia. 😂
Access denied. 😂😂😂
@@mtlewis973 RIP to the Native Americans but I'm different :)
never heard an old worker call up, argue agst safety regs, pensions.
Getting robbed? Just say no. Marauding gangs cannot legally take your property without your consent
caller: "my wages aren't enough to cover all my bills, and that sucks."
Sam: "maybe we should raise minimum wage then?"
caller: "what? no, i wont advocate for that!"
Comedy Gold.
Whatever happened to those bootstraps - huh libertarian?
I love how this guy honestly believes a group of 50 guys with guns showing up to a town of 20 houses to have a gun battle over a property dispute is a better alternative to what we currently have
I always enjoy hearing libertarians turn into the Joker midway through the call.
Actually he sounds more like Butthead…”uhhhh, huh huh”
@@cwfutureboy deadass I keep getting frustrated listening to this dude make stuff up on the spot
@@cwfutureboy "central authority"
@@griffithsrababy3601 What part did you think I was making up?
@@desertsand8778 Bruh. This was almost a year ago. How pathetic do you have to be to keep coming back here and responding to all criticism? Take the L like an adult.
It's kind of a beautiful thing to see someone create an entire ideology to cope with the fact that a golf course broke a few of their windows lol.
😂😂
It's actually kind of hilarious that is house is situated next to a golf course where this can happen. Like hopefully his house was a little cheaper to cope with that downside
Lmao he should make a movie about how he beat the golf course in court lmaoooo
"I love libertarianism " cites the exact example of why libertarianism would never work. Insanity
@@piotrbartnicki1308 bet you dime's to donuts that the golf course owner is buddies with the city manager and the chief of police. "I love libertarianism"
I swear to god, every single time a caller goes "I'm a Libertarian" Sam makes the funniest face. It's always a unique face too, but it conveys the same perfect feeling of "Oh god damnit, here we go."
Sam: “I needed this”. I think we all needed this.
The only disappointing thing was Sam didn’t ask him why he wants to abolish age of consent and child labor laws.
He touched on child labor laws with a libertarian before...
It was a pathetic argument that had no foundation. As usual.
@Johnny Fishfingers God why is USA like a third world country.
@Johnny Fishfingers great explanation, thx. I think Incels need our pity as much as some kind of reprehension.
END THE FED AND ERASE THE PUBLIC SECTOR
ABOLISH DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
PRIVATIZE AND DEREGULATE HEAVEN AND EARTH
CORPORATE NEO-FEUDALISM NOW!
@Johnny Fishfingers wow thank you for your comment
Lol this guy is literally Dave Rubin. He's like, government sucks, here is a way in which government was super helpful.
@@chuck1prillaman yes. From California, and is accidentally left wing
@@chuck1prillaman dude, petty much?
No way, this guy actually engaged with the _ideas_ more than dave rubin is ever willing to do...
still pretty dumb tho...
This the guy that tried to outwit Sam. I didn't say anything about government sucking. I was arguing that more autonomy should be held by municipalities, mainly when it comes to business and property relationship. Sam just kept on harping my property rights idea to where I really couldn't flesh out my ideas. But it's cool I admit the conversation was cringe and the laughing exacerbated it.
These libertarian people all sound like they have exactly zero world experience.
Hey, this guy's been through hardship. Didn't you hear his heartbreaking story about a golf ball breaking his window?
They all believe they exist as singular islands all to themselves.
I've never heard anyone talk out of both sides of their mouth like this dude..
@@noneya3864 Solipsism.
@@voxomnes9537 Yes, although solipsism is too fancy a word for these twits. They're developmentally stunted children.
"Im different from every libertarian caller because i want no government, but the community gets together to decide what happens, just like a government, but no government" - every libertarian caller
Sam's face when a caller announces that they're a libertarian is so heartwarming. He's like a kid who's learning for the first time that they're going to Chuk-E-Cheese after school
This is why libertarians usually share their opinions through one sentence memes.
Lol true, it sounds good until u make them explain more,then u relized they ate just spoiled kids who don't want to be told what to do
They're just gun nuts who hate taxes
Libertarians ARE memes lol
@@sgh94644
Based. Why is that a problem?
To be fair, ask any random person to defend any of his beliefs and you will find that he is not a great speaker for his cause...
He lives in California. We've just had the worst wildfire season ever. I would've debated him on whether he truly believes that only people who can pay for a fire department should get to be saved. Do guys like him even realize that in their quest for "perfect individual freedom" they become really barbaric?
No, and I honestly don't have much faith in them to eventually realize it either. Half the time, I just don't want to hear their nonsense anymore.
This is the caller here. Unfortunately, us Californians can't really rely on the fire department to do much with the fires that are happening in the mountain areas. we can only prevent them from hitting the cities and residential areas by control burning. Funny enough, you're not allowed to do that on your own in the state of California and I believe that has caused some damage.
@Kieran Kinney I understand why they don't let you, but not letting people resulted with our fires anyways.
The fact that your telling me that Australia has these stipulations like California proves my point, because both areas have suffered from massive wildfires.
That being said, I agree you need to be competent when dealing with burning. I'd suggest a co-op with people that do know what they are doing to lead the community to control burn. You don't need a centralized bureaucracy for this to happen.
@@desertsand8778 >That being said, I agree you need to be competent when dealing with burning. I'd suggest a co-op with people that do know what they are doing to lead the community to control burn. You don't need a centralized bureaucracy for this to happen.
you mean like a volunteer fire station?
those don't exist anymore because our society became so service industry based that most don't have time to go sit around or train, they need to work 8-10 hours a day :\
we had to make people do it with incentives.
like wages.
@@felicityc experience there's nothing wrong with making a business model out of control burning.
The libertarian ideology just falls apart when you ask "what about X." They say, "well ok a little bit of government can do that." Just keep doing that and you have the government we have now.
Which I didn't do in this argument
@@desertsand8778are you the caller!!?!
I dont have much time to talk to someone about golfballs smashing my window, but I do have enough time to become an electrician, a plumber, a mechanic, a carpenter, a seamstress, a construction worker, a food standards worker, a water inspector ...
Right? Lmao
This guy would be very alarmed by water quality if we dropped EPA requirements.
I say give these guys exactly what they want. Put them on an island, let them create their libertarian utopia, and watch how quickly it all falls apart.
@@SymbiSpidey Exactly.
Absolutely brilliant. This guy is a knucklehead. 🤦🏻♂️
As usual Sam Seder puts on a clinic and demonstrates the silliness of Libertarianism.
38:35 Jamie: Sounds like you work a job, right? You work for a wage?
Caller: Uhhh, kinda. I flip cars.
Sam: (Now we know why he has such a problem with lemon laws.)
Me: Dead.
This is the most confused guy I have ever heard. I think he just decided this morning that I will be a libertarian.
Sad thing is he thinks he is smart
The irony of Libertarianism is that only people living within the comfort and security provided by a centralized government can conceive of it.
You could argue the same about industrialized capitalism being a necessary prerequisite for imagining socialism. Funny ironies like that
@@damaniwilson7933 How so?
@@hodgepodge2749 It's a reference to the theory that the tools of capitalism will be what is used to build socialism. If socialism is to take root in the world capital has created, what else would but the tools of capitalism would be used to bring it about? If socialist values are to win an ideological battle against the current hegemonic individualistic neoliberalism, what would be stronger than an appeal to making good on the heretofore unfulfilled promises of liberal democracy? Or so goes the theory.
@Emeril Lugosi I appreciate your point, and I'm sure we have much to learn from the hunter-gatherers. But most modern conceptions of socialism include mass industrialization, which makes any potential socialist future quite different from however any pre-industrial societies lived. I argue that these imaginings of an alternative mode of production (modern socialist theory) are independent from whatever modes of production or social organization prevailed in hunter-gatherer societies, even if there is overlap. And I argue that the idea of transitioning beyond capitalism is only imaginable within capitalism. This is a framework which accounts for the world capital has created, implementing and co-opting some of its infrastructure. There is a difference between "beyond capitalism" and "outside capitalism". I would put modern socialist theory in the former group, and pre-modern hunter-gatherer societies in the latter.
Yes, but Libertarians are not anarchists.
I like how the caller tries to ‘gotcha’ because Sam doesn’t have specific numbers memorized for a specific community but, the caller can’t describe the basics of the underpinnings of his whole fantasy world that he is advocating for.
I like how the caller keeps talking about appealing to the 'central government' in any scenario that affects him, but as a libertarian he doesn't support a strong federal government.
In the first half, it was ridiculous that when Sam repeatedly tried to explain to him that his notion of "community" is undefined, he just didn't get it, such a simple concept went over his head.
@@Daneelro It was like listening to a creationist talking about "kinds" the term means whatever they need it to mean at the moment to support their argument.
@@shihsntz5301 Having "debated" creationists in the past, I have to say, _very_ good analogy!
@@Daneelro I listen to a lot of Creationist talks, for some reason I find the nonsense spouted by the likes of Hovind or AIG soothing, and this kid definitely struck me as being a Libertarian Hovind right down to the end when he made ridiculous demands of his opponent and was nauseatingly smug about those demands not being met.
So the libertarian knows that a minimum wage of $14 an hour isn't enough to survive in LA but he doesn't think there should be a minimum wage at all. That makes no sense at all.
they don't tend to think through their ideas at all, they just pick talking points theyve heard before.
Simply because they are aware that a $14 minimum wage isn’t enough doesn’t mean they must be for a minimum wage. Not sure why you think just because they have that information that they then must be for a minimum wage.
@@Sick96stang if they know you can't survive on $14 an hour and they advocating for being able to be paid below what you can live on without a federal entity to protect you. Then you're right, that isn't arguing for a minimum wage, it's arguing for slavery.
@@JimJamTheAdmin in no way does that fit any sort of definition of slavery.
he admitted that he didn't believe in human rights. he knows you can't survive on $14/hr, but he doesn't care, because you don't have a right to life. pretty consistent, actually.
When Sam started talking about the oil company strong-arming its way into the caller's land, he was getting into a problem that Nozick talked about, and even Nozick ultimately concluded that a libertarian state still needs a public police force and court system to resolve civil disputes. The caller should have known that, but like most self-professed libertarians I know, he hasn't even read the seminal works of the political philosophy he purports to follow.
Jamie’s face during this whole surreal shitshow is priceless. This whole clip is unintentional comedy gold.
She is serving quite a smug face 😄
I wish she would stand up
@@typeviic1 yikes
@@typeviic1 ?
Your welcome.
I love how in like, 20 minutes this ancap manages to somehow find himself arguing FOR a central authority. It’s hilarious
I love when libertarians accidentally become socialists when talking to Sam.
“It’s a community elective, and we hold each other’s rights and protect them against larger power” ya like socialists
this guy sounds almost identical to a communist at times
"you should only be allowed to own land if you're using it as a means of producing something or for something useful, and that usefulness is decided by the community"
there's a word for that and its not 'libertarian'.
@@loadedpainted7040 the fuzzy feelings behind libertarians make sense, but in actuality they’re just trading an elected voice of the people (in theory, government) holding domain over them and they’re choosing to let powerful (financially, influentially, dangerously, etc) individuals and corporations.
If you could keep lobbying groups and big money out of politics, you’d be way closer to your utopia of freedom than if you let the socially powerful be in charge. Fine, don’t use Facebook - zuck is really going to feel the financial crunch of that lol
Libertarian socialism has entered the chat
I started (literally!) laughing out loud when he began to propagate socialist ideas!! brilliant!!!
@@loadedpainted7040 ikr..I was thinking "that's socialism/communism. Capitalism works best.
What I love most about Libertarians, is if you calmly and patiently ask them reasonable questions, they ALWAYS end up back with existing government.
“If you think lemon law is something we need then you should start an organization” um yeah that’s the government
Jamie- "it's like chicken soup for the Seder soul"
"There should be an authority within the community"
SO A GOVERNMENT, THEN ????
Um no.
I said I was for limited government. Why do people keep on bringing this up? I swear Sedar's audience's IQ is lower than change in my pocket
@@desertsand8778 They are merely pointing out that you keep rediscovering how the different gov apparatus came to be in the first place....but you should have done that at the library
@@desertsand8778
because you repeatedly create a need for a government of some sort in nearly all your answers.
Really, that's one of the big downfalls of the libertarian stance. Government is something that mostly comes out of necessity when groups of people live together.
The entertainment for us comes from the fact that even though you yourself create government several times in your answers yo still don't see it.
@@MuaddibIsMe Well... we don't have a system where property is honored. They are permitted. That's a huge difference. I understand that cities and counties already have the authority to deal with property rights. I even mentioned the reality of it as well. A city where I live has given ownership of vacant land to a person but I disagree with that ownership because it's blatant usury. That is the caveat.
Meanwhile, my whole conversation with Seder was like this
Seder: What's 2 + 2?
Me: It's 4!
Sam: Don't you think there's a mechanism where people already know that!?
Me: .................
My favorite kind of libertarian is one like this one, who would like to replace the current system by the best alternative: the current system.
The current system but with libertarians in charge.
@@jesusaguilar4585 ding ding ding. We have a winner!
Well he asked me questions in what I believe ought to be. Not how original my ideas are.
The current system but dumber
@@Snake8jake so you want the city to own property?
Libertarians are the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
A used car salesman Libertarian. The perfect combination.
Rivaled only perhaps by the libertarian landlord...
Libertarianism is dependent on everyone involved being honest and, generally, benign.
If one guy shows up and decides that he doesn't care about polluting the river - or worse, that polluting the river is profitable for him - the whole thing collapses.
lol! It's like they literally just ignore 10000 years of the history of human civilization. Someone is going to get more stuff, and leverage that stuff into more power, and use that power to strongarm everyone else into creating autocratic fiefdoms. Or, you know, Empire. The default configuration of human society through most of its history.
That's not true whatsoever, but Sam sure does have a way to attract these brain dead libertarians who don't have a clue what they are advocating for lol. I'm suspicious if they are just playing a part for the video and don't actually believe that. But, there are lots of idiots out there, so... it's believable.
The very fact we can't depend on everyone being charitable and peaceful is exactly why many libertarians and ancaps believe the power of the state needs to be eliminated. We prefer everyone compete on a level playing ground, and not give the monopoly of violence to a group of bureaucrats who tend to be very authoritarian.
Private ownership of natural resources provides huge incentives to protecting and preserving that resource. A homeowner with valuable river access doesn't want it to become polluted. They want it to be clean for their kids to play in, or so that their property value stays high to one day sell. Now think about this for businesses who depend on the river.
Someone upstream polluting their owned portion of the river, which then affects downstream, would be a phenomenal opportunity for legal action. And yes, libertarianism/ anarcho-capitalism does not mean lawlessness. If that's a foreign concept to you, then you don't actually understand enough about the ideology to criticize it.
Put simply, private ownership of natural resources completely negates the tragedy of the commons. Because it's no longer private ownership.
@@Theviewerdude What is the apparatus for enforcing a disagreement in these "neutral" courts?
Company A can increase profit by 20 percent by spewing runoff into the river.
What's Company B, down the river going to do? They aren't going to sue Company a, they are going to adopt the same practices so they can compete.
Let's suppose a housing developer does sue them. In libertarian fantasy land, the court sends a decision with a cease and desist order, and Company A complies...
What reason do they have to comply without a body that exists to compel compliance with the use of force?
Why do companies pollute in the real world we actually live in? The Kochs aren't even rational about it. They have spent way more in fines and settlements than they would have by just following safety standards. They have spent billions literally purchasing the Republican Party because of their psychotic corporatist/libertarian ideals...
This isn't liberty, this is just a new kind of tyranny, and you all are just being grifted into buying a load of bullshit.
It's also dependent on everyone not being a Libertarian.
"But people will record the pollution with an iPhone, and over the course of a few years the company will lose consumers until they eventually go under.... you know, after they've polluted the river?"
On this episode: Yet another teenager finishes reading Atlas Shrugged and calls up Sam...
It's funny you mention that. It seems like every time i've heard a call from a self-proclaimed libertarian, they all sound and speak like they're about 16-20 years old. And their opinion is never very nuanced.
This comment just made me realize that I was definitely of the Libertarian persuasion at ages 14-18 precisely because I read Atlas Shrugged/Fountainhead lol
The sad thing is that Seder actually thinks being able to out-fox a 17-old who just finished Atlas Shrugged is proof of anything, so much so that he puts it up on RUclips to brag about it.
Sort of like that time LeBron James beat a 16 year-old in a game of 21 and bragged all over the Internet about it... oh wait, he didn't because even LeBron would know it doesn't prove anything and he'd be a shitty person in doing so.
What doe that say about Seder fans?
@@nealorr5086
These guys haven't finished reading anything
Dude really thought he had something with the living wage comment. "Oh you haven't memorized the minimum living wage calculation for every city in America, but you think *my* ideas are half-baked?!"
"I don't necessarily believe in roads."
I'm just finally glad a libertarian admitted it! Usually they're like "well, it'll just work out."
That's a shame. Roads believe in you.
That reminded me of the guy who said "I know how to operate a road" after the police man told him to get on the sidewalk.
Is this the same guy?
@@tmikeb28 🤣🤣🤣
Where we’re going we don’t NEED ROADS!!
He’s anti-fire departments 😂
And he’s Californian 😞
I cant imagine how SHIT of a person you have to be to be anti-fire departments. They are one of the only bastions of true heroes we have.
Ah, the Great Fire of London, his favorite pastime :)
I'm not anti fire fighter
lol I think they were anti-brain cells.
I always love how relaxed Sam is when he is debating these guys.
Dude it’s straight up stress relief for him I feel like
Senpai has practiced.
@@Lightningkuriboh its relieves stress for me to listen
"Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand."
😂💯
Basically women. 😂
@@Johnny.Brahvo Women are statistically more educated and have higher paying jobs than men today.
They are independent and that number is growing.
@@elloowu6293 you keep telling yourself that. They are the majority in collecting child support and alimony. Nothing “strong and independent “ about that.
This argument won’t matter btw. I’ll win and the majority report will delete it
Caller: “Hi I’m a libertarian”
Sam & Jamie: “👁👄👁”
Back in Ancient Rome there was a guy who owned a private fire department. He was go around looking for houses on fire and offer to buy the burning house for a extreme bargain in exchange for putting out the fire. The home owners were given a choice, watch your house burn or sell your burning house for chump change. Soon after a large fire spread and cost many lives and homes and the first public fire department was founded. Private fire departments don’t work.
That's Marcus Licinius Crassus.
@@abhimanyu3505 Yup. Crassus was an ass. Got what was coming to him.
Abhimanyuhouse C Yup, that ”guy“ was the Richest man in all of Rome. He was part of the first triumvirate. Although he was the richest third of the club his Generalship wasn’t as impressive as his colleagues. It was 20 years since he led the legions to defeat Spartacus and even then Pompey stole half his valor by catching a band of slaves that escaped the battle. Crassus in his 60s decided to invade Parthia to conquer new territory for Rome and become an equal with Pompey and Caesar . He personally paid for his own legions equal of 40K men. He paid for local scouts that betrayed him and led his armies in circles through the desert and when they were desperate enough Parthia attacks and defeats him. He finally try’s to suing for peace with Parthia. In the meeting Legend says knowing how greedy Crassus was they killed him by pouring moulten gold down his throat and used his head as a prized decoration.
Since you knew his story of the private Fire dept scam I know your familiar with this legend but it’s an interesting life others might find interesting.
I read some thing about how private fire brigades in Boston or somewhere would get into fights with each other and let the buildings burn.
@@HarryS77 think that was the case nationwide before the 20th century
I like the team was like 'why would a libertarian call in last now we're going to be here another hour'
While Sam had to check if it was his birthday...
It's for a good cause. I feel like the more arguments like this that happen, the left wins over a lot. Sam slays in this environment, and literally no single libertarian can prove otherwise... It may not be a high bar, but it's a bar.
END THE FED AND ERASE THE PUBLIC SECTOR
ABOLISH DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
PRIVATIZE AND DEREGULATE HEAVEN AND EARTH
CORPORATE NEO-FEUDALISM NOW!
I like how his golfball example ends up making a case for the current level of government authority.
Libertarians think that everyone should know everything.... haha.
However, they don't support public education, so that may lead to some problems heheheh. Christ this guy is so delusional.
Classical economics almost never considers the cost of information, and that carries over to Libertarian "thinking."
It's the neoclassical model of perfect information taken at face value, with no caveats or asterisks, and made the centerpiece of an ideology.
Of course, in reality, companies try very hard to hide information from consumers. Even if you were an expert on this or that, that multimillion or multibillion dollar company probably employs many people as smart or smarter whose job is to make sure you don't figure out what's defective, deleterious, pollutive, or poisonous about their product.
Which doesn't address 1) some products are so cutting edge there won't be experts to judge the product or service, and 2) not even the company may know what's wrong.
In order to survive and be safe in his libertarian society you have to be an expert in every subject and posses every skill or else you'll be taken advantage of and possible die from Asbestos or a faulty wiring fire that you can't afford to have put out.
@@diallo1347 I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist, a theoretical philosopher...an economist, a botanist, a child psychologist, a chemist, a mechanic, a computer scientist, an engineer, a historian, a sexologist, a food safety expert, a tailor, a cobbler, an architect, a plumber, a craftsman, a mariner, a master tactician, an avant garde choreographer, a materials scientist, a forensic pathologist, an ordained minister, a black belt in all styles of martial arts, including the ones I invented, a lawyer, a political consultant, an arborist, a soils expert, a climatologist, an electrician.
But above all, I am a man.
This caller is just like my youngest grandson - he doesn’t think things through
It reminds me of those "Ben Shapiro destroys SJW" videos from his Q&A appearances on college campuses. It's like shooting fish in a barrel... Isn't that one of Seder's criticisms of Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson? How they demolish college kids who aren't intellectually equipped to debate them? Seder and friends are massive hypocrites.
Carl Marks they call him
@@grapes9h5 True :) But does he really need to spend 45 minutes stroking his own ego by "debating" some cocky kid who hasn't thought through his own half-baked arguments ? Seems like a waste of everyone's time.
Carl Marks I don’t think it was planned for it to go on nearly this long.
Hey old man River! Zip it or I'll break your hip!
Solid reference grapes lol
Watching Sam dissect these poor poor libertarian ideas literally never gets old
This sounds like every rich kid who just found Ayn Rand.
You mean every 11 year old
The world of libertarians is magical and has no corrupt people, especially the rich.
The golfballs (that accidentally continued to hit his windows !). _I do not have time to go up the upper echolons_ to get that fixed (owners of the golf course is not "responsible", well they too might know that police will not do anything, and it is in their rational self interest to ignore your woes if they can, - and they can).
Of course he does not have time a) he still studies the law to undo the efforts of car dealership b) studies building and safety codes as to not be on the mercy of landlords (how do you find out about hidden problems, if the property laws do not allow you indepth inspection). c) studies furnaces and safety codes regarding them, and tries to find out the installation and maintainance in THIS property.
They take what might function in a world where people hardly interact and live remotely (with guns to protect themselves against renegades). And want to apply it to a highly complex society.
Actually this is precisely why libertarians came up with their ideology, it is because the government and elites are full of corruption and have done so much harm to the people. Do you ever learn to critically think about something you say before you spew nonsense?
@@dathunderman4 That's also why socialists came up with their ideology 😳
Aaron is the only Californian who wants fully private firefighters.
@k yle S wanson I don't particularly like California's State Government or how it uses inmates and then refuses to hire them upon release.
That being said, I don't want to buy firefighter protection the same way I hire gardeners.
@k yle S wanson so?
@mayrana2 They only accept certain inmates for firefighter duty. Obviously, arsonists don't qualify, despite their prior experience.
@k yle S wanson it's alright: you're not responsible for your chromosomes.
If you understood how useless the fire department is, you wouldn't be saying that. 90 percent of firefighters aren't even used to put out fires and when there are fires to be put out, they end up already getting put out by regular people that have access to nearby extinguishers. If not get rid of the department, at least reduce it's role to save on tax payer money.
Sam: They're gonna pick you up and put you over there
Caller: How are you gonna do that? I weigh a lot.
Sam: **They're gonna roll you** .
That part had me rolling xD
The kid literally was acting like a child and juvenile. Like somehow that's a flex. 😂😂😂
These hosts deserve a medal for being so respectful and not talking over the "callers"
Where have the libertarians been in supporting the protests against police?
Siding with police
Sitting in the basement complaining.
Well keep in mind maybe the original sin for them was the disenfranchisement of the black chattel capitalists (in their minds - there was usually plenty of recompense).
@Edgehead10075 😂😂😂 Libertarians believe Selfishness Is the only real moral compass.
One of the thing he said that government should do is police to protect property rights. So property is more important than people.
Christmas comes early for Sam. I love how his face lights up when he realizes he's talking to a Libertarian.
And when the guy's cell service started going out - pretty sure Sam came.
END THE FED AND ERASE THE PUBLIC SECTOR
ABOLISH DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
PRIVATIZE AND DEREGULATE HEAVEN AND EARTH
CORPORATE NEO-FEUDALISM NOW!
@@permaiussen4208 Based on this guy's other comments, I'm not sure this is parody.
Lol I actually thought about not mentioning that I was a libertarian and just ask him questions that would lead up to a debate. but I guess I wanted to be a little bit honest about my motives by admitting what I was.
Or Hanukkah, perhaps?
I have never met a "libertarian" who thought about their position past being selfish.
These are people who struggle with object permanence
@@t2k777 Yeah I don't think I'm a great example based on this segment. 😁
I'm really not that selfish. I actually do want to decipher life to get better and wealthier for the general public, just like any other progressive.
@@desertsand8778 Clearly, you're not ill-intentioned. You would 100% be a leftist if you read more into what we advocate. Go read theory.
@@SaurianSavior I've read Joseph Proudhon Property is Theft.
Just popping in to say this libertarian's version of libertarianism is... co-op communities helping each other protect their communities co-owning and co-operating their properties and companies and co-regulating their industries. I could have sworn there was a name for that type of government, but geez if I haven't forgotten.
I see I’m not the only one who typed in “Sam Seder debates” just to get a fix. Hello to everyone else watching this rn
@Lucas McMaster sam seder soup is good for brain power. lot's of political protein lol.
Man going through his whole him vs libertarians.
Makes me more hopeful that I'm not the only one watching MR videos. So glad to see Jamie in this one.
Helps me pass the time during my covalenscence.
I love how the caller is one of those “that’s not an argument” bros and yet uses first-person anecdotes to argue against academic data regarding living wages. Good one.
Also how he struggled to live on $20/hour, but was against telling economists about it in case they advocate for increasing the minimum wage.
Every libertarian ever - "we want big government, but we don't call it that."
They want government that works solely for them.
They want many little governments that end up wholly less efficient than the one big government they despised.
"Who wrote it!?" I lose my shit all over this statement 🤣
I cannot believe he thought government should intervene between him and the golf course AND he's arguing for small/non-existent government! 🤦♀️
You don't seem to understand. That situation was about HIS needs. The most important person in whole, wide world was being inconvenienced so of course community resources were expected/needed and used to help him resolve it.
"Now are you an electrician?"
"Uhh.. Somewhat."
I am something of an electrician myself. A firefighter too. Why not?!
@@alexmarkadonis7179 And an exterminator, and biohazard cleaning specialist (mold, asbestos, etc...), and animal control, and ... my neighbor's tiger ate my other neighbor's dog (not really)... what do libertarians think about government telling people what pets they can own and/or what conditions are necessary to house them safely (for both the animals themselves and all the other people and animals they interact with)?
Having a little knowledge of AC and DC circuitry, I can say that knowledge of DC is dangerous in the world of AC. But lots of folks have some knowledge in either area.
Then your property burns down, and you wont get insurance... This argument assumes that a property owner would burn down their own property. Or kills their own renters? If you eliminate house coding, they'd still be liable for death. This guy assumes all businesses will collude. No. That is the point of a free market. Hospitals that kill patients will be replaced with hospitals that don't. The caller was correct. Consumers can form entities like Angie's List.
@@jonathangardner4475 why do you think there are antitrust anti-monopoly laws to keep businesses from colluding now? This is exactly Sam's point. The laws exist because the problem existed.
Consumers can form Angie's List equivalents? How? Leaflets? Word of mouth? What happens when every business in that field has a bad rating on the list because they agreed with each other to do bad things?
Of course not every business of every industry is going to collude but some always will. That's why there are rules against it.
"They're going to pick you up, and they're going to walk you over there"
"How are they going to pick me up? I weigh a lot...."
"They're going to roll you off the property" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
lol Hilarious.
I lost it when Sam said his armed guys would show up and march him off the property and the caller clearly hadnt even thought of that possibility.
lmao
Libertarians are nuts! Of course, he doesn’t believe in building codes.
What's this asbestos stuff?
their just selfish people
I’m an electrician and he does ELECTRONICS! LmFAO!!!
@@diallo1347 how bad can it be, it's got "best" right in the name
@@Smossicanz that was my favorite bit. It's like saying I'm kind of a carpenter because I install carpet.
I swear all libertarians have that maniacal laugh that they use to pretend they're winning the argument
“It’s called an education, sir!”
Lol, this guy thinking he’s some high IQ intellectual. He starts focusing on random petty shit to look like he’s winning. He argues like a naive 17 year old child.
Get on there and debate Sam, the both of you. I'd love to see how you do. (Hint: You'll end up babbling your idiotic talking points just like the caller.)
@DrupBup My silence could mean you are not worth the argument.
Yeah random petty shit…. Like property laws… transportation…minimum wage…super petty.
i had the same thought, the kid must be young. not just how he says it, but his viewpoints themselves are naive as well. hopefully he'll look back on this and cringe one day.
@Gomer Pyle you are not understanding what people are saying i think but whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"I'm a libertarian who's pro personal liberties and property rights but I also support a strong centralized police force acting in the interest of the highest bidder"
No not even close