I NEED to RANT About Oshi no Ko Episode 13 😤
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- This is why I LOVE Oshi no Ko as seen by this newest episode they once again dive into subject matter many anime are afraid to discuss!
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The way Oshi no Ko can get you so spicy while seeing both sides is truly wonderful! See my full uncut live reactions to the episodes over on Patreon www.patreon.com/BrandonReviews
This anime is good at doing stuff like that. Saw it a lot in season one. Let's hope season two continues to do that.
I watch episode 1 and 2 today and when watching it I made lots of comparisons between most western and eastern adaptions in movies, for example the author of death note loved the adaption the author made for the Netflix death note movie the author loved it but everyone hated it, and when it comes to western movies like Star Wars, the fans absolutely hate it , especially the fans that kept it alive and the director Kathleen kennedy knows what she’s doing is wrongs but still does it , heck George Lucas gave her the next phase of Star Wars scripts ,so she could make an adaptation and we just got horrible movies, some were good some were a disrespect to the creator, and when seeing Oshi no ko topic on such things I find them to be very kind, and I mean as if they are trying to show both perspectives and it’s good when it comes to situation like those types of adaption but most of the time especially in the west it’s not always the same atmosphere, the whole Mcu is a great example of that, but just because that’s one example doesn’t mean it speaks for itself, like the actor that played Superman play both in the Witcher and is also hopping to play in a 40k war hammer and his a total fan.
Honestly tbh it's better to not follow Oshi no ko due to the latest dumpster fire chapters and plot progression.
Man I felt so bad for GOA, the author of a work he's a fan of was about to insult his sense as a creator after he had been following instructions he thought were the authors visions. It's just as I thought but seeing the process of how an author's ideas go through so many people to reach the scriptwriter and all the adjustments and interpretations it goes through really hit how easy it is for intentions to be lost.
Sad how true what the scriptwriter said was, if his work was negatively received then he would get the blame but if the audience liked what was done then original work would get the credit. Ouch.
well duh. He's basically copying from the Main Source while doing a few changes. A copy can't surpass the Original, especially when the Original is a huge hit.
@@HerrscherOfStars you're an idiot
@@HerrscherOfStars Hahahaha, yea, go and try to adapt a whole manga arc in a 2 hour play and see how easy it is just "copying" the Main Source. You people are the ones to which this critique is directed to.
@@HerrscherOfStars But he must change something when it comes to a 2-hour stage play...
@@MikaelLima2210 Are you stupid or something?I LITERALLY stated never change the characters.. The hell you got TRY TO ADD IN THE WHOLE SERIES INTO A TWO HOUR PLAY from??? You SERIOUSLY can't be THAT stupid!
The fact this show handles all the irl stuff so accurately is just something else
it's so visceral and you can feel the frustration but the apathy that GOA feels and how he portrays his job. Makes you really empathize with him. And the worst part was he is taking the brunt of it and he's also a fan of the source material.
Well not that accurate, but you will find abt certain set ups wont have any consequences.
Damn i feel bad for the scriptwriter
got done dirty
I know right 😞 that’s what a scriptwriter has to go through number 1 and it’s checking for any changes that are necessary or not.
Realistic drama can be the perfect spice and Oshi no Ko honestly nails it without ever being too bearing on the overall story
it's because of things like this that I understant some authors refusing any kind of adaptation
This episode showed how important is the role of Communication when a story or work is getting an adaptation. And i loved they gave the perspective of both The Author of Og Work and the Writer or director who is adapting it and shows how they need to properly communicate so that both of them gets the best product. And i am sure all anime and great shows we watch are great because both Writers of the show and Author of the source worked along side to deliver show which satisfy everyone.
I personally don't see her as being in the wrong
They effectively NEVER actually sent ANY of her script complaints to the actual script writer and she gave them the benefit of the doubt until now that they knew what they were doing, it's the chains fault not hers they should have gotten the 2 together or at least in direct contact to talk things out long before then rather than just stringing her along
The script writer isn't in the wrong exactly either it's all the management
She was in the wrong as soon as she started throwing insults at Goa while clearly not understanding how the whole thing worked.
@@deadline6149 Im glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. She told her sensei she didnt know how this whole thing worked why didn't she ask her to debrief her on the basics of how theatre works. Yeah she wasnt expecting to arrive and see a butchered script but what was the whole point on bringing your sensei with you then. I hate that she just assumed it was scriptwriter fault and tore him up and undermined his passion when this isn't his first script when she doesn't want anyone undermining hers. She is valid to call out the crappy situation with the script but not to do what she did after
Communication is the key. Rather than saying "this is wrong" or "the characters are acting weird", she should give more details on how she wants it to be. For ex, she can say "I expect at this scene this character would say something like this" or "this character wouldn't act like this, instead he/she would ..." This shows no matter what profession you are, everyone should learn how to communicate effectively with other people.
script writers for OnK: THAT IS OUR CHANCE TO PRESENT OUR CASE! DON'T F* THIS UP
Abiko's only fault is not understanding the bureaucratic nonsense. And the bureaucratic nonsense is a million times more at fault for existing in the first place.
From her perspective, she's been blown off at every turn and all of her concerns were ignored. Then they claimed it was too late to make changes when she finally put her foot down, even though they completely ignored the changes she had been requesting from the very beginning. That kind of BS would be enough to enrage anybody.
This issue can pop up anywhere in real life. So many companies have these rigid structures for communication that always have to be followed. This can lead to a lot of miscommunication like in this episode. The mangakka and the scripwriter seemingly never met until she completely tore into him. And that was the problem.
well ye, Aka and Mengo were able to make oshi no ko thanks to their very real experience with the industry with both having not only anime adaptations but film and theater adaptations as well, Aka prob bribed his script writers to cook with his adaptations 😭🙏
I got far more upset at the intermediaries than the creator. It was all the people in the middle that tried to water down the feedback and totally failed to convey the dissatisfaction of the creator with the script that prevented the scriptwriter from potentially coming up with a good solution that worked early enough to undertake more severe changes and allow others to adapt accordingly. Their empty platitudes to the creator that she'd be fine with it once she saw it in action was a huge misstep. She was upset from the start and they just ignored it and didn't let her feedback be meaningful, putting the whole project in peril. I do agree adaptations have to be different and it's possible the creator is too stubborn to understand that. But we don't know at this point since the connecting team didn't allow a meaningful attempt to fix the problems to happen prior to the creator putting her foot down and threatening to cancel it all. Having seen a number of badly flawed adaptions, including recently, I liked seeing the creator stand firm in the end. Though I do think she unfairly attacked the screenwriter. I do have huge sympathies for him and am glad they depicted him sympathetically. But it's the people trying to buffer the creator from the script writer who caused this. In a good adaptation with true author approval I expect there needs to be better contact between the two.
Very true, but also, Abiko kinda sucks at giving feedback. The intermediaries failed at conveying how upset she was, but she also did not make it easy for them by failing to provide useful, actionable feedback.
@@ulrik03How about don't f with the characters personalities. That is not a very hard criticism to understand.
@@malcirhodes3 how about consider the medium, the adaptation, and the time limit of the show!! How about that
@@code122 You do not need to change personalities in order to do that and if you think so, I don't know how to help you.
@@malcirhodes3 it's the difference in priorities. They explained it last episode. The play adaptation prioritizes preserving the overall plotline and conflict and thus made adjustments with that goal in mind, while the author prioritizes the integrity of the characters and is actually more okay with changing the plot. This could have been fixed if Abiko managed to communicate her intentions to the Lalalai team but we know how that went.
Abiko was highly unreasonable in this episode, but she had one absolute truth: change the plot if you must, but changing the characters (especially to the degree of Princess Saya) should be a no go.
There is no absolute truth, that's the point of the last 2 episodes. People have different interpretations and values when it comes to fictional stories, adding to the complexity of adapting a piece of work on top of the complicated communication systems. The team adapting the manga's goal was to effectively convey the key conflict (the plot) so they chose to sacrifice the characters, which unfortunately just happened to not match the author's priority.
Something to point out that the Oshi No Ko anime is not following the story beats of the manga faithfully. Rather, it is following its own storyboard that is based on what happened in the manga to better portray it in the medium of anime. This will piss off the "anime must adapt faithfully" crowd, but as a manga reader who loved this arc, this gave me a whole new experience and not just a 1:1 recreation. After all, if it's just that, we don't need writers, just copy the panels, put some color on the pages. People complain about skipped content too much that they forget that a season only has 12 24 minute episodes. To write with that limitation is hard on itself, but to make a 2-3 hour stage play is even harder as you need to cram as much story beats you have and a cohesive plot to go through.
I just hope other people have more understanding with adaptations because not everything needs to be perfect. K-On is a 4-koma manga that didn't tell much of a story, yet the anime became a beloved title because of the writing and direction from KyoAni. Bocchi the Rock is also a 4-koma that benefitted from the direction and artistic vision of Keiichiro Saito. It may not be close to the original, but the adaptations elevated it. And that should be the point.
the anime community as a whole never will get what actually makes a good adaptation but it's always nice to see people like you get it even if the vocal majority think panel for panel is what equal good.
I got to watch this episode early at Anime Expo last weekend and walked away feeling the same way. I initially thought to myself “wow they skipped a little bit here and there, that’s concerning”. But after putting some thought into it, I realized this is what the stage play arc is teaching the audience. When it comes to adaptations, there has to be some give and take from everyone involved, from the author to the actors and everyone in between. There will have to be sacrifices made in order make the adaptation fit within the time constraints of the platform it is being done in. In the case of a stage play, there’s a lot of content (dialogue) that must be sacrificed to fit a 2 hour run time… as you said, even more has to be cut for a 23-24 min anime episode. At the end of the day, as long as our characters and the core of the chapters adapted stay true to the source, we should be more open minded and accepting of the adaptations
I understand everyone frustration on this one. But man, the Writter has no blame here. He's just a fan doing his job with all the efforts for one of his favorites manga series. We also know that he actually does pretty well his scripts. To be just roasted by the author that way.
The workflow needs to improve, and Abiko needs to become more undestanding.
Understand this, Akane herself said that her character had been changed so much it was unclear how she was supposed to act it.
I feel it's rare for people to commend the adaptation at all when there is a good adaptation, they tend to commend the author. Not that the author doesn't deserve it for the piece they created and it's presence as an anime for example, but more then that a good adaptation is someone who can do with what they have to create something worthy.
I think Abiko contract might have give her a lot of power, and she is in far stronger position to negotiate due to her manga popularity. Perhaps she sign off on it since she was allow to have intervention power into the process of adaptation for good and ill.
@@KVP424 technically every manga author in Japan has this power. Rights of the original creator are heavily protected in Japanese law. But practically speaking if you aren’t at abiko’s level of success using this power can lead to future adaptations or even manga jobs falling through or not being offered as you can be seen as hard to work with. And even if you are as successful as her Japanese culture might hold you back as it could be seen as improper to actually use the power.
@@kamronspencer4910 The last part is also wonderfully demonstrated in Akane's reluctance to ask GOA about the changes to princess Saya.
Instead of questioning it and potentially leading to a better end product, even if it's just through her having a clear picture of what the script and direction want from her instead of changing the script, she initially just gave up on it because it would be seen as improper to do so.
@@kamronspencer4910 autor must be popular like Oda, Kubo, Kishimoto etc. if he/she want something like that
I dont find this childish on her part. She had communicated with the people that she trust that would tailor her feelings without being too vulgar to piss off the people who will do the adaptation of her work. The problem is... the people who read it and try to add professionalism made the original post look dumb down and it did not reflect to how she felt about the story.
She expressed how this isnt the first time she had to complain about the script which is where she said that she complain multiple times to get the people to understand but again she has to deal with people who ends up writing her emotions to a more professional way which frustrates both parties.
I know this has been a long way since the animation industry but back then authors couldnt say a thing about the anime adapation because the directors would hand them the contracts and never contact them nor let the authors see how things were going. Thus, this creates many disappointments not only the animation but the author which they have no hand to the series.
I do believe this should change, change to havd the authors interact with their works with the animation industry so they could find a middle grown. Not the bullshit telephone game, no, no, no. Set up a meeting, review the script and let the author find the issues and how it could be changed or find a settlement to change. Otherwise, yea i could see how authors will feel like their stories are ripped apart by people who dont understand the story she is trying to tell for the people.
There are a few mangas that i have read in the past that got to be animated only to find huge amount of disappointments because you had a taste of what reworks or the mangas brings to your life only to see it done poorly.
Which that I do believe that brings frustration as the audience who watch the anime.
The only childish thing she did is how she act towards the scriptwriter. You can’t insulting people like that without taking in consideration that it might also be hard for them
I am on Abiko's side. The theatre production team is trying to make their own version using her characters, and they were playing the stalling game in a gamble to force Abiko to accept their version by using the excuse "we don't have time to entertain you". They were looking down on her because they see her as a kid. They did not think she would push back. That was their big mistake. Abiko is more passionate about the characters she made than they thought. So yeah, Abiko is in the right for me. Even Akane pointed out the same issue and was shot down by the production team. Gao told Akane he noticed it too but did not defend it. For me, it felt so satisfying to hear Abiko said, I will do the rewrite, he can get out.
"They were looking down on her because they see her as a kid"
Honestly, yeah, the Lalalai troupe leader is a veteran of his industry who has been working for as long as Abiko's been alive, there's no way he's not just like "here we go again" lol
Except Gao was willing to make revisions to accommodate Akane, so I doubt he in particular held any malice in what he was doing.
What he got from the prompts was that the plot and sequence of events were priority so he bent what he needed to bend to keep the story beats as close to the original. Whilst it seems Abiko values the integrity of her characters far more, so again the malice angle does not really work.
Also what does Abiko genuinely think she's going to achieve?
No knowledge in stage play and a weekly manga to keep up with. She's going to put out a disaster and Gao can't take his name off the credits of the upcoming trainwreck.
@@bakayarokonoyaro8375 If Gao had changed only the plot, as Abiko said herself, she would not be against it. But the thing is, and I get where Abiko is coming from, he changed her characters' personality. I think that is disrespectful to the author. He made it worse by saying he had read the manga and was a fan, but he changed the characters anyway, to fit the producer's wish.
We are currently facing the same issue with how localizers put their own words or slang into a character's mouth, when actually the Japanese script says something different. To some extent, the localizer's words change the character's persona, making him/her look more unfriendly or less reliable, etc than what is actually intended by the original script.
@@zam023I was saying this exact thing earlier. While I do not believe GOA was at falt, he still produced such a turd even Akane was having a problem with it. GOA was writing for his usual audience and completely forgot that he was trying to attract a new audience, who probably don't like the old theater ways as much.
even though i agree with this, you should've see it from the production team perspective, if the original author wanted to change so much, then the budget would rise for the play, the time to convey something would be much longer and the audience would probably be confused because they adapting the arc that was far in the manga so no introduction to the whole character... the only way i can see this worked out is when the scriptwriter and the original author are in the same writer's room to give and take what to cut and what to include
in my case I side with the author but understand the scriptwriter(the best thing would be both of them interacting directly)
Would they have been able to do that? That would seem like the best solution if that could happen, but they would also need to understand that a stage play isn't a manga. It doesn't look like Akibo would care about that though.
@@user-dk8jh1mb1q true, but at least the complaints would not be changed from going from mouth to mouth
@@user-dk8jh1mb1qWell much of Abiko's rage comes from her complaints being changed up 5 times before reaching GOA and him then implementing those changes that she never wanted, making it even worse.
If they cut out the middleman that problem wouldn't exist and she already said that some changes to the plot are ok, her characters being completely out of character the whole time is a big part of her problem.
I said the exact same thing. GOA most definitely should've been in that room with Abiko listening to her complaints.
Kana's reaction to Aqua and Akane was so funny.
I seriously felt bad for the script writer 😢😢
I worry that the character will end himself
I am looking forward to the Aqua x Akane date, she's so excited to show him more about theatre but I'm sure she's most excited about spending alone time with him.
Me too 😊
Man, this episode brought out SO. MANY. bad memories from an old media-related job I had before...
I experienced something similar to the scriptwriter's frustration once (though it was more IT related).
The solution the guy in charge took was to call the other party after the 3rd round of "telephone", and have my team and said person duke it out (figuratively speaking) until we knew exactly what the other side wanted and what our side could do towards that goal.
(Blair, my friend, if you are reading this comment, know that that experience made me grow professionally, thank you).
Many inter-industry relationships work just like this episode.
The main issue is how each person in the chain interprets the message according to their individual batch of corporate criteria.
(Funny Example)
The client, a painter, goes to a certain country to teach about his particular style of painting.
During his stay, the painter wants to furnish his studio with a new bookshelf.
The painter hires a carpenter.
The painter makes an elaborate, realistic drawing of the bookshelf he wants the carpenter to make, and he tells the carpenter "make it EXACTLY as it is in this drawing".
The carpenter looks at the painter once, asks for confirmation of the client's wishes, and upon obtaining it says "sure thing".
Days later, the carpenter delivers the bookshelf.
The painter looks, disbelieving, at the bookshelf: it is, line for line, the exact replica of the one in the drawing... down to the slant you see in a perspective drawing.
The painter gets royally pissed off and calls the carpenter an idiot. The carpenter defends himself by telling the painter that "You told me to build the bookshelf exactly as it was in the drawing. I followed your instructions to the letter".
The painter, flabbergasted beyond reason, declares that this humble carpenter has outdone him in the art of surrealism.
The painter in question was Spanish surrealist painter, Salvador Dalí. These events took place in Mexico.
After he finished his trip to Mexico, he said, and I quote: “There's no way I'm going back to Mexico. I can't stand to be in a country that is more surrealist than my paintings.”
This arc is Salvador Dalí's Mexican bookshelf, the anime.
Ah the hard part for scriptwriters as the creator oversees it and don’t like it, it’s bound demanded for changes, even the slight change to any character or story it’s going to be a problematic situation. This is a example of what happens. Cute at the end Akane takes Aqua to a theater date.( on the side note Kana is cute in this episode ). This is a good episode that explains the challenges being a scriptwriter has to go through and if the script is not acceptable, the actors can’t do anything about it and just wait for standby.
Akane said the same thing "Is that really the type of performance they want?"
These issues aint over yet.
As much as I understand the frustration of Abiko, the author.
I feel more bad for Goa the Script writer 😭
He put his soul into this script just to getting crushed 😢
Adaptation from a medium to a another one, has to be different, for the public or how it is show 🤔
Let's hope that they can manage to put everything together 🙏🏻
The realistic side of Oshi no Ko will remain my favourite point of this masterpiece 😊
This arc is my favourite in the manga so I've been looking forward to seeing it animated and getting opinions on it like this. It's a tough position to be in for production when there are authors like this who are socially awkward, not used to dealing with people in a healthy manner and are surrounded by 'yes' men because they are successful and they don't want them to quit writing more. She's being unreasonable and difficult, but she's also a person who needs to be dealt with as they can't just brush her aside because of her rights to integrity of her work. It's a realistic portrayal of things that happen often, the creators of Avatar walked off production of the Netflix live action because they didn't agree with the direction after being involved from the start. There will always be clashes between the creators of original work and production on adaptations.
It goes to show how difficult it is when you have money and jobs on the line with a person with enough power to pull the plug, she has already shown little worry about doing just that so they need to placate her, even if it might destroy the show itself. The authors themselves are also stepping out of their zone as she knows nothing about stage production, she can't be expected to write a good script for the stage without experience as much as the scriptwriter for the stage couldn't pull a best selling manga out his ass. The lack of communication is bad but it often comes down to seeing it from the POV of others and understanding what their skillsets are.
I feel so bad for the script writer,it sucks to see someone try so hard and be so passionate about something and have to hear something like that. It would be best if they could work together. The author has no clue how to make a play work,meanwhile he does. Put both of them to work together without telephone game and they might make gold.
Dang, that was an episode. I feel bad for the script writer, he tried his best and honestly like our mad author said it’s fine to change stuff but still because the communication was just bad. As for what you said I completely agree about the whole situation and especially hurts when you see him doing his best. As for the author I feel bad about that as well, I wish there was a way they could’ve gotten to compromise without the game of telephone. It’s just so much. So much to feel, so much we saw at how it got so messed up. This episode was really good, in a frustrating way.
I've read this arc a couple of times already, but this episode reminded me of the Mangasplaining podcasts episodes where they've off-handedly mentioned how impossible it is to get in touch with Japanese creators without going through proxy people who relay your messages after evaluation.
Like, say a translator working for a North American publisher is on a deadline, but they need to clear up how they're supposed to understand and translate certain things, it'd be way easier for them to just go for it than to try and jump through hoops to get in touch with the original creator. If you somehow have their contact info and contact them directly, their people will get in touch with you and tell you you're not supposed to do that.
(I may be misremembering what I heard on the pods, but that's the impression that stuck lol)
This is one of the rare cases that both sides, GOA's and Abiko's, are right. The process failed them both. Abiko's possible inability to give actionable critiques to the Producer's demands for Spectacle over Substance both failed GOA's interpretation of the story. Not to mention the Telephone Game of continually watering down Abiko's issues led to her feeling not listened to.
The process sucked.
And the stage play would be marketed to fans of Tokyo Blade, just like the Kimetsu no Yaiba and the Attack on Titan Musical ones are. Yes. There is an Attack on Titan Musical.
Manga author was too harsh..
If she had that much of hold over company.. that company was ready to pay 10 million..
She should have talked to SCRIPTWRITER earlier first time he messed up.. or even earlier..what was she doing.. that time..?
Nahh she was victimising herself too..
I'm a student and scriptwriter (for stage plays, although I write my own story) and I was so furious when she told he has no talent what so ever..
This story showcases the harsh reality wail in a perfect world everyone could sit in a zoom meeting and discuses but everyone has multiple projects there working on and schedules dont line up so things need to go down the chain of command and miscommunication happens. And for this episode loved the adaptation of it didnt expect them to put in the first day of resurshals/introduction wail I like kana's rant and other small character moments , I didnt think it was super necessary to include but I'm happy they did and worked it in well.
I feel super bad for the scriptwriter, but I’m more inclined to side with the author, that’s not to say I agree with her actions and what she said to the scriptwriter, but ultimately I think the author should be able to change how it’s been adapted if there are some major issues with the adaptation, like making the character be out of character.
One piece LA is a perfect example, where the author had a lot of power to change stuff, even though he gave away some changes like the whole marines storyline, and some other minor plot changes, but ultimately all the characters felt like the ones in the original, and that’s a huge part of why the LA was a success.
She is definitely doing things the wrong way now, but if the companies were more efficient in sending her messages to the scriptwriter, there wouldn’t have been nearly as much trouble.
The manga author wanting to rewrite the whole script herself is reminding me of fantastic beasts the crimes of grindelwald and how jk rowling wrote the entire script herself and it ended up being a trainwreck
One really interesting part of this arc is how the script adaptation side of things is more well known for it's bad sides than good ones already, so not only did they show completely different negatives opposite of what people usually think of (Mainly focusing on the struggles of the scriptwritter, who is more often than not ignored or seen as the issue by people), they also on top of that show complications and how they can lead to both negative and positive things in ways you wouldn't expect. It's generally just a more complicated and complex critic than how they dealt with most of the other matters in the first season.
It's also really interesting how they deal with the different people involved too, not just GOA. Abiko herself is a very interesting character who is being a big source of conflict here, but at the same time is very relatable in why she's acting that way and you can't really hate her for it, even if you can fault her. The way things play out is also really unortodox, but I won't say any more to avoid spoilers.
This episode opened my eyes on the difficulty of adapting a Manga to an other medium.
I'm sometime part of the people getting mad of anime not being 100% accruate to the source material. But now I will have an other vision.
As long as you don't pull a The Promised Neverland season 2, I won't get mad at script writers deleting things from the manga in an anime.
i instantly thought of tokyo ghoul with this episode
I definitelly felt way more for the scriptwritter here... But I can't say I choose sides, cuz the way the mangaka feels can also be very relatable.
Abiko being so pissed while, of course, being a representation of creators upset with their works getting a bad adaptation, also feels like a representation to how we as the audience can get REALLY aggresive and mean sometimes towards an adaptation team that didn't do the work justice.
Sometimes we just gotta remember that there are very real people that can be geting hit with so many of the audience's angry comments. That is not to say we shouldn't criticize adaptations that we didn't like or anything, of course we should, but to try and not be so mean about it could be a good start.
This anime must be reflecting how the production of one piece live action and why oda is a excecutive producer for the show and yet the show ruuner is the who gets there way in the end
Felt like she was yelling at me for a moment there. Not sure if I’m on both sides or neither side because I understand why both of them felt the way they did. On one hand you don’t want to see your creation be watered down beyond a certain point because then you’ll end up with something else. It’s like if you spent days sketching something then someone erases half of it and replaces it with simple stick figure-like drawing. On the other hand you try your best to adapt something you like which by default means changing something that’s already good to fit a different medium. You try to preserve what you can but things need to be exaggerated and simplified in order to fit a certain time frame or as in a lot of cases irl nowadays to “reach a wider general audience”. Hurts more that you know what you’re making isn’t as good as the source material. The extra irony is that they just went over why they had to change things last episode and now this is happening. Oof.
that's why i think that if you want to adapt an existing media its always better to make a series, cause even if the adaptation is good it still cuts out a lot of things like the lord of the rings and dune movies for example
i don't know about that "making a series" since we know what happen to LotR: Rings of Power and Netflix The Witcher
@@shuukun8659 i don't think that's making it a series that's the problem but more of the writers of the show not knowing how to write. like if they made it into a movie it would still be bad but for example if the one piece live action was turned into a movie it could still be good but how many stuff needs to be cut out to fit the movie.
@@shuukun8659 Those failed because those writers thought that they were better than the original creator and weren't fans of the original.
Both sides have good points. I think the cause of the problems is that the author not being able to communicate effectively to the management and the management's toning down her criticism. If I were Abiko, when I know that someone do not understand me, I would quickly write an outline indicating how I want it to be (for ex. at this scene, the characters should say this and should have this emotion, etc.).
The scripwriter simply tries to do his best and please everyone (the director, producer, and the author). It's funny when the other mangaka says mangakas tend to lack social norms. This reminds me that Gintama's author also said similar things.
Reminds me of PL Travers, the author of Mary Poppins, and how frustrating she was to Disney, and the crew making the movie.
Compromise is the main takeaway from this plot. Actually speak to the author responsible for your movie, anime etc being able to even exist in the first place about changes. Don't just make the changes without asking. Try to find something you can both agree too, there has to be some way that you can make changes to adapt the story that the author will accept. Make the author a producer and consult with them. Even if the author went after the wrong person, the truth is that whoever is in charge of whether the script actually is used or not should involve the author in the process more and they were wrong not to.
There's multiple people involved in every part of adapting a story into a production, at some point the author should be consulted before it's accepted and released, it shouldn't actually be released before they speak to the author and come to a compromise that both sides can accept. They will find something eventually that works for both the author and the production company.
Also remember they need to get the author to sign off on their work being adapted, some people might be fine with letting the production companies do whatever they want, but others will want to actually be part of the process, and would not have signed off on it if they knew the production company would try to push them out, and not even take their opinions on their decisions to change certain things into consideration.
Seeing the blood drain from the playwright’s face man… awful
I know how the author feels bc I also have my own OCs i am passionate about, if they were mishandled I would also be pissed off. But this is.. really just painful
Idk how people are taking sides when the story gave us that omniscient view on the situation. It's obvious that both were reasonable to some degree. Sure, Abiko was kinda of and asshole? Yeah. But can you blame her tho?
Same goes for the adaptation team. They should listen more to the author? Sure. But she also needs to understands the limitations of an adaptation. It's great storytelling. Very simple, but so well done with the way they present the characters and their problems
5:59 It's the nature of the search engines and recommendations i feel like. For me buzz around first episode were everywhere, so many reactions and reviews flooded my social media it was almost overwhelming, but it literally first i ever heard of 2 season of tower of god. I didn't even knew it was anounced! and i really liked first season. It's just how internet functions in the current time, information flow is specifically targeted at individual so if for some reason algorithm thought you weren't particularly interested in oshi no ko, you easily could have missed it was out. Thank you for notice about tower of god though:)
I felt bad for the screenwriter, but I get both sides.
I find it hilarious that people in the comments are picking sides, because it shows they clearly didn't understand the episode's message at all 😂
Once again too real 😵💫 especially when those who are really passionate about their work in that industry
I think the script writer is going to re-write it his way and they’re going to end up using it
I disagree on the take that Abiko was being childish. I feel it’s very much understandable with how much the production side screwed her baby. Abiko’s manga is basically everything to her, so Messing her characters up is akin to telling her that her writing is trash. Hence Clapping back at the scriptwriter to tell him his writing is trash, when in reality it’s the fault of the numerous intermediaries. Even though they wanted to give her a good faithful adaptation, they still messed up and didn’t understand her priorities.
But it’s not exactly well depicted. My speculation is that Abiko made harsh recommendations for how to get the characters more into character. Her editor toned it down, and left out the critical info of “make the characters more in character” and it turned into “make the characters more expressive” or a few other things. Like how Raida shot down a few changes because the set design for them would be impossible. But that didn’t get sent back to Abiko.
If Abiko didn’t get upset and threaten to cancel the production, they would have continued to pressure her with “it’ll look better in person”. And it all is tied together with how Akane can’t understand why they flattened her character.
Communication is the key. Rather than saying "this is wrong" or "the characters are acting weird", she should give more details on how she wants it to be. For ex, she can say "I expect at this scene this character would say something like this" or "this character wouldn't act like this, instead he/she would ..." This shows no matter what profession you are, everyone should learn how to communicate effectively with other people.
the lost interpretation of what to communicate is killing me, that's why every adaptation of the source material should've had the original author and scriptwriter in writer's room to communicate properly
if u like this type of anime showing the ups and down of the industry from the inside and u have some free time. Take a look at Shirobako bunch of girls that dream about working in the anime industry. U can see almost everything, artists getting burnout, 2d vs CGI beefs, insufferable workers, budget problems, mental breakdowns, seiyuus castings, they also ft. some legends like Hideaki Anno. The show is pretty good.
Have
The two mangakas are essentially Aka and Mengo self inserting here.
Yeah, they cut out all the interviews from the first 6-7 chapters in the manga to fully focus on Ai's story. It was a sound decision to make, one that made sure that this anime sold like hotcakes.
hey brandon what did you think of the duel tooth brushing scene?
dumbest thing ive seen in a long time and probably made me anti author from the get-go. but it did make me laugh
When I watch or read "Oshi no Ko", I know I am getting accurate information about the industry.
if both side are not wrong, then the middle is
i think both author and Scriptwriter was wrong. its not just the author it self, you dont know the original authors feeling and workload in making those chapters.
I guess the phrase "lost in translation" could apply to this
also did not know that this is how translations from one medium to another is made no wonder alot of adaptions is such a let down once it becomes a movie or anime. -_-
It shows that Aka, the author of OnK works in the entertainment industry and saw some real nasty shit while working there. I felt so bad for poor GOA this entire episode.
I have a buddy of mine who studied cinematographic production in college and he told so much about how bad Hollywood can get when it comes to work conditions, scheduling and budgeting. Said buddy tried to watch Shirobako and couldn't take it after two episodes because of how stressful for him because of all the fuckups in that show.
I definitely wouldn't say S2 is anywhere near S1 because we're all-in on this play adaptation with Akane and Kana .. Aqua prying more into the industry. We barely, mostly never get to see Ruby.
I get a feeling this arc is supposed to be big but I just miss the outside.
OH that being said, the Melt reprise and reformation was great. I started to come around and like him in S1 so he seems super humble here. Asking Kana to be straight with him lol.
We get to see more Ruby to the end of the season.
@@il3fortunato664 made me happy
i think if Abiko-sensei just said earlier what she said in the later part of the episode, where they're free to change the plot, but not the characters' personality, i think it would have been better.
i can understand too that in adaptations, time and scenes need to be adjusted to fit the timeslot, but completely changing characters personality like Hime in tokyo blade is kinda annoying.
however, as the sweet today author said, abiko-sensei is an eccentric one, so it's really difficult to translate what she said. but, what's wrong with being eccentric? however, in this case, abiko-sensei being eccentric and the job where adaptation is just a telephone game, what happened can't really be avoided..
___
poor goa,, you even delayed your job to pour your best on this play
poor middlemen of the telephone games,, you all cannot translate whatever abiko-sensei is telling you
poor abiko-sensei, your intentions were mistranslated and your eccentricity is being seen as bad
Does Abiko resemble Ai to u??
I don't think it is fair to blame Abiko-sensei... the people to blame are the ones playing telephone with her and GOA. Abiki-sensei has her reasons for wanting the changes, GOA has his reasons for making those changes, and most importantly, GOA loves the source work and respects the author. If they find a way to sought out how to communicate their thoughts to each other, things will work out eventually.
This cannot be said for Ashihara Hinako-sensei, though... something really similar happened during the drama adaptation of Sexy Tanaka-san which eventually ended in Hinako-sensei ending her own life. In this case, Shogakkan (the publishing house) actually has the receipts to show where the problem was...
Mild spoiler
All my goa fans out there just know that he wins in the end
Signing with the script writer for the stage play is bullshit. Akana is the actor - we know she is the copy cat to a teeth when it comes to characters - she said the stage character doesn't fit the manga. At this point we know that the actors know that the source material was not adapted and for that only script writer of the stage play is responsible GOA. Sure go ahead and take away the blame from him all you want, but he made the script and with all what he put down changed the source material to something neither the original author recognizes nor the actors identify as a true representation of the characters. Again you can make up excuses for outside influence, time constraints in medium and what not -AT THE END he created the "new" story that does not fit the old. Now you can go ahead with the new one and see if it is better or worse as a representation, but that is a taste question and not a question of technique, and the later should be the skill of the stage play script writer to set in motion!
bro lives in the Wonderland
Na i side with the mangaka, her story deserves to be how she dreamed it 👌🏻🔥
The author was right though🤨
True. Like they’re any change to the characters it’s going to be a mess and fans would be hurt. That’s most important especially in Japan standards
@@Ozviewer976 To add on to this the author was fine with the story developing in a different way as long as the characters were the same🧐
@@irfanharithzain3240 that’s the idea story can turn different as long as the characters are not changing and fans love their characters
She acted like an ass though, wich is the bigger problem here.
The thing is, GOA never actually heard any of Abiko's real complaints and critiques (just filtered down notes from 4 different people), and that's what the issue is. Abiko's frustrations are 100% valid. However, her actions are objectively wrong because she is taking out those frustrations on the wrong person. She's calling this man a hack for not understanding her criticisms when he never even received HER criticisms in the first place.
She definitely isnt in the wrong, shes just accidentally acting in ways that have some incorrectness to them - the problem is the lack of knowledge/miscommunication unto her, not a problem with her choices and actions . A simple extra conversation to clarify misunderstandings would fix so much !
I actually fully agree with the Author. You can change some plot points but NEVER change how the characters act or behave. Try to imagine Zoro being changed from the serious badass to a goofy clown.
hey man / we really miss those old our last crusade review 🥲❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
I disagree on the take that Abiko was being childish. I feel it’s very much understandable with how much the production side screwed her baby. Abiko’s manga is basically everything to her, so Messing her characters up is akin to telling her that her writing is trash. Hence Clapping back at the scriptwriter to tell him his writing is trash, when in reality it’s the fault of the numerous intermediaries. Even though they wanted to give her a good faithful adaptation, they still messed up and didn’t understand her priorities.
But it’s not exactly well depicted. My speculation is that Abiko made harsh recommendations for how to get the characters more into character. Her editor toned it down, and left out the critical info of “make the characters more in character” and it turned into “make the characters more expressive” or a few other things. Like how Raida shot down a few changes because the set design for them would be impossible. But that didn’t get sent back to Abiko.
If Abiko didn’t get upset and threaten to cancel the production, they would have continued to pressure her with “it’ll look better in person”. And it all is tied together with how Akane can’t understand why they flattened her character.
They were giving her the runaround and treating her like an idiot, and Akane sort of felt it. So as much as I sympathize for GOA, Abiko is in the right and I’m in her side, even if her product is going to be worse than GOA’s.