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Great farming video😃, now how about meat? Rabbit? Chickens? Clone them there from DNA or transport them from earth? I raised both here and more, and to answer your question yes i would go if CRISPER genetics found how to remove 30 years😃
14:45 an even better route would be to max out the payload with growing supplies and once landed vent the propellant and utilize the tanks as well. If my memory serves me that's quadruple the space to grow in.
Good question. But why don’t we at least partially terraform the moon? The climate would be similar to ours and it’s next door. We really need to build a sunshade for Venus, freeze out it’s massive atmosphere and use massive rail guns to fire that excess atmosphere at every planet in our solar system we wish to give an atmosphere. We have the technology, just not the will it seems. At least when starship comes online it will be feasible.
@@9thebear Terraforming the moon wld require us to use something like "the proto molecule" and that is centuries ahead. Right now Mars is the best 👍💯 choice for Terraformation
This time what went on in Vegas will not stay in Vegas!! I met both Britney Spears and Elon Musk in 2000 at Bellagio. Britney just stared at me as she was singing on stage and I was standing in an archway above and nearby. I'm not sure if I was supposed to be standing up there by myself but I did have her undivided attention. A few days later Elon came up to me and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, in Las Vegas and Hawaii during that time. If I would I be fine answering a few questions. And if I was a gambling man? I stated, "I was on vacation and I only like to bet on things that are worth betting on!" I had earned these trips by qualifying reward points at my work. He asked, "What kind of work is it that you do?" I said, "Commercial energy saving promotions but I had been schooled in Automotive Marketing Business Administration and worked in that field for several years as well." He asked me, if I had millions of dollars to spend what would be the most innovative businesses that could help humanity? We talked about electric cars, we talked about solar energy and so many other subjects for over an hour. Even commercial space exploration for the consideration of colonization. That way all of humanity's eggs are not in one basket in case of another world war, asteroid strike, major climate change, etc. These we're very expensive and ambitious businesses to become successful at. Therefore we had to talk about ways of keeping a low overhead in advertising, distribution and the manufacturing. He said, "They were all very good ideas and that they should be done!" He said he had already made hundreds of millions off of a couple internet companies he started. "One of them was PayPal," he stated. Not that I had really done a lot of online banking or e-transfers at that time I didn't think much of it, until I noticed online about a year later that I could buy something off the computer with my PayPal card! Unfortunately I had just received a promotion as regional manager with the company I was working with. This made me let Elon know that I had to wait for a few years before I could assist further. I keep on sending out messages for the last 15 years hoping that he will get one and reply back. I will probably have to keep on trying, he gets more messages in a day then I would in five years! It is very inspiring to me to have a conversation with someone and they dedicate the next 20 years to making our conversation reality! We also talked about becoming your own best supplier and starting businesses that help your existing business. A type of slingshot effect that he has incorporated very well. It is so ambitious and amazing that he was willing to put pretty much all of his money where his mouth is and just make it happen with a consistent dedication. Congratulations Elon and I am looking forward to working with you again, one day in the near future! I still come up with innovative business ideas on a daily basis. Of course Britney I always wish her well and would enjoy meeting her again as well. Shoot for the Moon then Mars and then we will end up amongst the Stars! If you would like to learn more of these topics let me know. People with integrity expect to be believed otherwise they let time prove them right! propower101@hotmail.com
@@rickcilo7567 Terraform planets doesn't need self-replicating nanobots, although having them would make stuff much easier. We can terraform a planet with technology of the near future, it's just the energy cost would be insurmountably high for humanity as of now. We need space based solar (vast solar arrays that dwarves planets) to power planet-spanning infrastructure to be able to terraform a planet, and the process would take thousands of years.
I would be a Mars Farmer in a heartbeat! It sounds like the perfect roles for someone like my self. Very little to leave behind and helping others in a situation where for the first time I could be happy! :D Plus I love to sing and apparently singing to your plants is a good thing (and your audience can't run away!!!)
@Sethia Saamis I really hope this type of thing never happens, Mars Colonies are fucking stupid, The Cost, Psychological Effects, Physical Effects, Travel Time, Communications Time, Practical Problems and fucking terraforming outweigh the “benefits” of getting to Mars, What’s the point of getting to Mars? There’s no abundant amount of resources etc. Exploration? Doing that on the moon is WAY better; There’s a lot more important and research-based resources there, Such as Lunar Regolith, Helium-3, Lunar Ice Water etc. The Moon can also serve as a base for future deeper operations such as going to Jupiter or Saturn’s Moon or even Mars. The Moon can also serve as a really good observatory complex, safe from atmospheric interference. Mars Colony is a dumb idea and I pray it never happens. Especially having to cope with the fact that you’ll never see your friends and family again on Mars is a tough thing to cope with.
living on mars would be terrible. Your entire life would be in very cramped quarters compared to life on Earth. Eventually once you are there long enough you will never be able to come back to Earth due to weakened muscles and bones.
@@bluesteel8376 Why would I want to come back to Earth? It sux here! No one can agree on anything and everyone has to have their two cents worth in regard to things that have nothing to do with them...
I think agriculture on the Moon and Mars will be doable by 2028+, based on this info and other things I've read. It will be a learning process, but life heroically fights to thrive already. We just need to learn how to help it in those tougher environments.
@@Nautilus1972 There are a lot of breakthroughs in understanding & managing exposure, even down to discovering that solar radiation comes at certain angles on Mars. This helps in designing structures with shielding where it's needed most. Both Mars/moon offer plenty of craters to build in, which offer very big shielding from the radiation. Now add the 10 years before we're actually leaving people there for 6 months. We'll know even more by then. Plenty of tough work and research, but eventually humans can get this done.
@@Nautilus1972 most recent mars colony concepts are built into the sides of cliffs for radiation protection. Only exposure is by the windows. Skylights utilize mirrors to give indirect sunlight from the top while giving cosmic radiation no direct path into the stricture. Much thought has been put into the whole radiation thing.
This time what went on in Vegas will not stay in Vegas!! I met both Britney Spears and Elon Musk in 2000 at Bellagio. Britney just stared at me as she was singing on stage and I was standing in an archway above and nearby. I'm not sure if I was supposed to be standing up there by myself but I did have her undivided attention. A few days later Elon came up to me and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, in Las Vegas and Hawaii during that time. If I would I be fine answering a few questions. And if I was a gambling man? I stated, "I was on vacation and I only like to bet on things that are worth betting on!" I had earned these trips by qualifying reward points at my work. He asked, "What kind of work is it that you do?" I said, "Commercial energy saving promotions but I had been schooled in Automotive Marketing Business Administration and worked in that field for several years as well." He asked me, if I had millions of dollars to spend what would be the most innovative businesses that could help humanity? We talked about electric cars, we talked about solar energy and so many other subjects for over an hour. Even commercial space exploration for the consideration of colonization. That way all of humanity's eggs are not in one basket in case of another world war, asteroid strike, major climate change, etc. These we're very expensive and ambitious businesses to become successful at. Therefore we had to talk about ways of keeping a low overhead in advertising, distribution and the manufacturing. He said, "They were all very good ideas and that they should be done!" He said he had already made hundreds of millions off of a couple internet companies he started. "One of them was PayPal," he stated. Not that I had really done a lot of online banking or e-transfers at that time I didn't think much of it, until I noticed online about a year later that I could buy something off the computer with my PayPal card! Unfortunately I had just received a promotion as regional manager with the company I was working with. This made me let Elon know that I had to wait for a few years before I could assist further. I keep on sending out messages for the last 15 years hoping that he will get one and reply back. I will probably have to keep on trying, he gets more messages in a day then I would in five years! It is very inspiring to me to have a conversation with someone and they dedicate the next 20 years to making our conversation reality! We also talked about becoming your own best supplier and starting businesses that help your existing business. A type of slingshot effect that he has incorporated very well. It is so ambitious and amazing that he was willing to put pretty much all of his money where his mouth is and just make it happen with a consistent dedication. Congratulations Elon and I am looking forward to working with you again, one day in the near future! I still come up with innovative business ideas on a daily basis. Of course Britney I always wish her well and would enjoy meeting her again as well. Shoot for the Moon then Mars and then we will end up amongst the Stars! If you would like to learn more of these topics let me know. People with integrity expect to be believed otherwise they let time prove them right! propower101@hotmail.com
It's Oxygen - The bacteria would produce Oxygen from the oxygen freed up from the Calcium Perchlorate in the soil ( Ca(ClO4)2 ). The 4 atoms of Oxygen get freed up from the calcium and chlorine. What a great way to do it!!
Man I always relate all these new advancements in space engineering back to The Expanse show. It's crazy how realistic the creators kept most of their ideas and created a great story around it, at least in my opinion.
Great show, yes, but not about farming. Their model wouldn't work. The hydroponics and aeroponics they used would need constant input of minerals and lack certain nutrients in the food. It would be much easier to establish healthy soil ecology in one of those domes on Ganymede. Then the microbes would extract the minerals the plants need from the rocks on Ganymede and through composting organic matter.
america is 35 trillion in dept just think how many space shuttles full of space station or space port could have been built. NO space belongs too russia and china india they will work together and get the glory. america will be another mexico.
@@haypiseth0102 that type of thinking underestimates what humans can accomplish. We can plant trees to make forests, culture plankton to populate new areas in the ocean, and use technology created for space travel to grow food. All at the same time.
Would I go to Mars to be a farmer? In a heartbeat. I like the idea of converting a Starship into a farm once it gets to mars, that way it serves two purposes.
@@reversicle212 Mars will be the doorway to the outer solar system and has actually much more ressources to support a sustainable colony. If you don't want to go, just stay at home, but don't waste your time on praying ;-)
@@reversicle212 -- People have trash-talked what they viewed as 'dumb ideas' going back an absurdly long time in recorded history. Many of these individuals boldly proclaimed that said 'dumb ideas' would never come to fruition. Achieving powered flight, and, successfully landing + repeatedly reusing first and second stages from rocket launches are among countless other examples of so-called 'dumb ideas' because they were both considered impossibly difficult in the past. But humanity chips away at such feats over time, and we find ways to make them possible. It's not always pretty and/or conventional, but a win is a win.
@@reversicle212 Having one would be the jumping point to allow us to begin to conquer the stars. Mars isn't the end goal, it's the beginning of a much larger endeavour. The issue is short-sighted people like you can't see the bigger picture. Mars will open the gates to the future!
The bulk of the food (the calories) will we produced synthetic (starch) and cellular by fermentation from basically scratch (cfr Solar Foods). Discussing lunar or martian soil for hortiiculture is basically a distraction if not a pure wast-of-time. Ressources like fertilizers will be so scarce that just throwing them in the soil would just not be feasible. We will indeed need highly intensive culture systems with maximal recirculation. More complex molecules coming out of fermentation processes will be used to grow cell cultures of meat and fish.
with the vertical farming they could implement that trick with teh shifting book cases. basically you'd have like 6 panels with plants and a space like the hall.... but you can shift the panels of plants to keep the hall yet each panel is a growing zone. you could double or more, improve yield.
I see a lot of people commenting about the farming with no soil. That looks as the best solution at first, however it is not sustainable. You have to add all the nutrients in order to grow plants from which you eat only parts and then drop human waste at the exhaust which cannot go back into the system directly. The cycle is not closed. In order to do faming with no soil on another planet means: - Constant shipment of furtilizer - IN - Constant dealing with waste - OUT On the other hand if you realy try to be self sufficient on Mars or Moon you need the soil and all the creatures living inside of it to close the gap in the OUT -> IN cycle. For anyone who is trying to think deeper into the subject can check Wikipedia: Nitrogen cycle / Potassium cycle / Phosphorus cycle / Calcium cycle / etc... Self sufficient farming means a process in which you add ONLY energy and nothing else.
Yes, what's missing in all the ideas in the video is that healthy soil is a massive microbial ecosystem, with THE MOST SPECIES of any ecosystem on Earth (not the dirt our industrial agriculture leaves behind, I mean grassland and forest soils). We need to take that with us to use it's full power, and frankly, to be able to survive.
i'm a geologist professionally and a hobbyist botanist and gardener, i also own the largest 8-track tape collection in Snohomish County.... I have been studying and crunching numbers on the topic of self-sufficiency on Mars for a decade and spent 3 months writing a summary for interested parties. My data changes as technology advances so it has turned into a nightmare never ending project that i sincerely regret starting. That said and with all things considered, from intended population, to atmospheric conditions to gravity to water i have concluded, several times that the only feasible method of sustaining long duration stays on Mars is underground. The good news? There are more than likely lava tubes that could be quite inhabitable, boring machines could be possible too.
Probably hydroponics not soil, as we'll have more control over what nutrients are delivered, and their ratio, as well as regulating pH, packing in a high density, and avoiding radiation by growing them underground.
give everyone 9m diameter luxury apartments, build river-like lakes for indoor walks, seafood and o2 algea (ice as building material be self healing and give vast structres in no time)
Wow! Setting up and sending a Farm version of a Starship would be the awesome way to go! That's alot of space that could be well utilized for dedicated farming! Do IT!! Then - To answer the question about "would I go to Mars to be a Mars Farmer"?? Hell Yeah!! As a farmer in Kansas currently, (growing Alfalfa!), I'd LOVE the opportunity to add my farming expertise and experience to a Mars Colony!! Hell Yeah I'd go in a hot second!! Good video - Thanks for this.
This is cool. I have said many times I volunteer to be the first to go to Mars and especially to be the farmer. Yep, that's me, Ron Mars farmer extraordinaire.
It may be cool and, moreso, it may "look" cool. But it's really not. Go ahead and volunteer, and when you get there, within a few days (or less), you'll want to come back to warm, wet, oxygenated, normal gravity and normal air pressured Mother Earth. Earth- with forests of trees and innumerable other plants, and lakes and flowing rivers, green meadows, creatures of all kinds abounding, vast oceans of liquid water, blue nitrogen skies, an ozone layer protecting against UV light from the Sun, and a magnetosphere protecting agains Solar Energetic Particles, and, more deadly, Galactic Cosmic Rays. You will have None of the Above on Mars.
We did it at IFAS also during those time periods. I have some Avocado trees here that were grown for their first 10 years without soil in cutoff 55 gallon drums. They had to be removed from the drums at that time as they were becoming root bound. 40 years later they are still producing although they now are in the ground. Our area of Florida grows most plants in a modified hydroponics form as we have very little top soil in most areas. We used D-8 and D-9 dozers to break up the rock and then applied fertilizer and water.
@@Nautilus1972 That will be a problem, on the surface. But can be done underground. I worked on growth chambers that could grow anything under any simulated lighting, temp, and humidity conditions. Even to the point of not using any soil but using mixes of rock, perlite, peat moss. We could even increase the carbon dioxide levels in them. And that was in the late 70s-mid 80s. Now days, we could likely even simulate the lower pressures that would be found on Mars. Not sure about the dust but if underground, that won't be as much of a problem either.
Grow plants near the side ends of the habitats by windows with the help of mirrors inside and outside the habitat. Mars gets extremely cold at night. A habitat could be covered over with regolith to protect from micro meteorites and radiation. That leaves the side ends. Other areas inside could be grown with LED lights.
I don't remember if the movie brought it up, but there was a tad more work and explanation done on the crop soil. Mark had sample quantities of Earth soil, and he mixed those into his Martian crop soil, then lets the soil sit for days before actual planting. It was something like allowing the bacteria in Earth soil to propagate. Said it was the bacteria that allowed plants to grow.
Those shipping containers would be flat packed and not made of metal. I'd hazard a guess that 20-40+ could be packed into a single Starship. Tbh if they took the shape of the payload bay and redesigned it, that number could be substantially higher
"320 square feet of volume"??? That makes no sense,dude. I assume that you are either referring to a 20' container giving ~320 square feet of available area ie approx 20' length x ~8' height x 2 sides =~320sq.ft or a 40' container giving ~320 sq.ft per long wall x 2 = ~640 sq.ft.
damn, you beat me to it... I've rewind the spot three times just make sure he actually said that... maybe, he's just a voice over or didn't author the content for that segment... whatever the case, I really enjoy these updates and been watching them ever since the very first one, 10 kilometers ago ;)
AS most Dutch tomatoes and bell peppers grow on rock wool and water with minerals....there is no need for soil, just make rock wool, and have the right recipe of minerals..
I agree using the soil is unlikely and not a short term answer, however I wonder if a long term, several decade or even century plan could be used. Something that would slowly turn a soil from infertile and unusable to something fertile over the period of the project.
Regarding potatoes, I'm sure a little Tesla mini tug will help them move it. Solar charged of course. But the fling Starship farm is interesting. Fly the dirt in, grow the kale or whatever. Ship it down the elevator. And the farmers can bask in the Sun at night. Or day. I love a Mars farmers tan.
Farming will most likely need to be done hydroponically at first. Converting Mars soil into something useful will take time. We would need to bring secondary additives such as micro organisms/ worms for the soil. Composting over a long period of time would be required to enrich the soil enough to be viable for plant growth.
Nutrients can be provided so there is no reason to grow in soil at all. "Soil" only needs to be an inert media like rockwool which is just melted basalt rock spun into fibers.
The biomass of the substrate (soil) matters the most. Millions, if not billions, of microscopic lifeforms, per cubic meter, are an integral part of fertile soil for growing plants on Earth.
Fixing moon regolith to be suitable for plant growth or even mars regolith would be easy if enough compost from earth was introduced to the regolith and allowed to break down into the ground with continuous replacement then composting anything that grows in the substrate back into the ground over time would become more than suitable for plant growth it would just take a lot of input and take several years at a minimum before anything of quality to be produced
great video, am disabled, but I see myself going to Mars, and it should be that easy to figure it out for people like me, just saying 😉 vote for me to go to Mars...
Imagine outfitting a robotic ship with the ability to have a robo-farm, which includes setting up self-contained "pods" that use 3D printing tech developed for making human habitation including Martian soil, but instead of building pod homes, they make pod-farms, and create it such that the first ship creates far more "pod farms" than it can personally farm, and have later missions send more robots to start filling out all the already created pod farms with plants and other supplies to make the pod farms into large scale self-contained and renewable farming. Add in some robot miners that can find and supply these pod-farms with water, you could set up something in advance of humans that could support the first colonists before they even get there.
Sun flowers and hemo would be a good starting point a better starting point would be if you can make it work in mars then maybe you should try and use that to make it work on earth
This time what went on in Vegas will not stay in Vegas!! I met both Britney Spears and Elon Musk in 2000 at Bellagio. Britney just stared at me as she was singing on stage and I was standing in an archway above and nearby. I'm not sure if I was supposed to be standing up there by myself but I did have her undivided attention. A few days later Elon came up to me and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, in Las Vegas and Hawaii during that time. If I would I be fine answering a few questions. And if I was a gambling man? I stated, "I was on vacation and I only like to bet on things that are worth betting on!" I had earned these trips by qualifying reward points at my work. He asked, "What kind of work is it that you do?" I said, "Commercial energy saving promotions but I had been schooled in Automotive Marketing Business Administration and worked in that field for several years as well." He asked me, if I had millions of dollars to spend what would be the most innovative businesses that could help humanity? We talked about electric cars, we talked about solar energy and so many other subjects for over an hour. Even commercial space exploration for the consideration of colonization. That way all of humanity's eggs are not in one basket in case of another world war, asteroid strike, major climate change, etc. These we're very expensive and ambitious businesses to become successful at. Therefore we had to talk about ways of keeping a low overhead in advertising, distribution and the manufacturing. He said, "They were all very good ideas and that they should be done!" He said he had already made hundreds of millions off of a couple internet companies he started. "One of them was PayPal," he stated. Not that I had really done a lot of online banking or e-transfers at that time I didn't think much of it, until I noticed online about a year later that I could buy something off the computer with my PayPal card! Unfortunately I had just received a promotion as regional manager with the company I was working with. This made me let Elon know that I had to wait for a few years before I could assist further. I keep on sending out messages for the last 15 years hoping that he will get one and reply back. I will probably have to keep on trying, he gets more messages in a day then I would in five years! It is very inspiring to me to have a conversation with someone and they dedicate the next 20 years to making our conversation reality! We also talked about becoming your own best supplier and starting businesses that help your existing business. A type of slingshot effect that he has incorporated very well. It is so ambitious and amazing that he was willing to put pretty much all of his money where his mouth is and just make it happen with a consistent dedication. Congratulations Elon and I am looking forward to working with you again, one day in the near future! I still come up with innovative business ideas on a daily basis. Of course Britney I always wish her well and would enjoy meeting her again as well. Shoot for the Moon then Mars and then we will end up amongst the Stars! If you would like to learn more of these topics let me know. People with integrity expect to be believed otherwise they let time prove them right! propower101@hotmail.com
An acquaintance would mix potassium perchlorate with sugar to make a kind of gunpowder. Heat liberates elemental oxygen from the perchlorate just as it does with potassium nitrate. So while engineered bacteria could free oxygen from perchlorate Martian soil, heating the soil could also.
This is interesting especially with the testing of moon and Mars soil but one thing I see missing or maybe I missed it is candy grow in a different gravity because there is less gravity on the moon and Mars so can it still grow
In polytunnels? But I recently heard you can have too much CO2 for plants to grow any info on this? they say about three hundred parts per million is th sweet spot at one atmosphere.
If we can upgrade humanity before we venture forth, we won't need to eat, sleep, drink or do anything else we currently have to. Combine Neuro Link and Nano mites. We would never stop upgrading and adapting to everything. Always becoming better.
Wouldn't be as easy as Matt Damon made it look in "The Martian"? Are you nuts? The elaborate process he had to endure to just create potatoes is orders of magnitude higher than what it will actually require to farm on Mars. I really don't understand why people fixate on mankind having to till the soil and use traditional farming methods as the one way to grow food on the red planet. Aquaculture, aeroponics, and hydroponics are going to be the most viable forms of farming methods used. It's fascinating to see people unable and unwilling to grasp the idea that it will be anything other than those forms of farming.
"I really don't understand why people fixate on mankind having to till the soil and use traditional farming methods as the one way to grow food on the red planet." Exactly! It's extremely narrow-minded. But forget complex processes like aquaculture or aquaponics too!
First, we would have to detoxify the Martian "soil" (regolith). Planetwide, it is riddled with perchorates, which are, to my knowledge, sodium-chlorine compunds that attach to various elements, iron, aluminum, magnesium, etc., and are utterly toxic to all known plant and animal life, certain cyanobacteria being the exceptions. Martian regolith is also riddled with lead, arsenic, and mercury. It's an extremely deadly cocktail of lethal toxins. Even with greenhouses, it will probably be too cold to grow anything on Mars. Average global temp on Mars is Negative 82 degrees below zero on Mars, and it gets much colder than that. At the north pole of Mars, where most of the water ice is, it gets as low as 225 degrees below zero F. For comparison, the coldest temp ever recorded on Earth was in Antarctica, at 157 degrees below F. And no one wants to live permanently in Antarctica.
I'm not an expert! But I believe gravity plays a role in the transport of water around the plant. Less gravity = less efficient transport of water and transpiration.
Why do we not just grow in hydroponics? Better and more efficient. No need for soil anymore. You need to think in multiple dimensions. Hydroponics is the best solution!
All those ideas will not be sufficient. What's totally missing in them is knowledge about how the soil food web works here on Earth. And to be fair, that's also true thoughout most of industrial agriculture currently... The plants get most of their minerals from soil microbes, that dissolve rocks, and from fungi and other bacteria, that dissolve organic matter. Plants give back carbohydrates through their roots to grow those fungi. The aeroponics and hydroponics that's used in the shipping containers works, but needs constant input of salts produced somewhere else, probably be transported there from Earth. WE LIVE ON AN ECOSYSTEM OF MICROBES AND THEY DO VERY WELL, after all they were a couple billion years longer here than us... To be successful with living on other planets and on large space stations we need to establish Earth's soil biology there. To start with that is actually easy: Bring some living soil to Mars and use composting, and later when there is enough space, establish grassland and forest soils! We can't avoid bringing Earth's microbes with us anyway, because we are microbial ecosystems too :), an extension of the soil.
Well, we can't just take plant life with us, we have to take animal life as well: bees and other bugs, etc,. Hell, microscopic bugs (as well as macroscopic worms) are important components to any fertile Earth growing soils.
@@sidstevens9035 In that case, it won't be worth it. How many, 'human hands' do the job of pollinating insects on Earth? If we can't do it here, what makes you think we can do it on the Moon or Mars? Even if we could artificially pollinate our fruit and vegetable crops here on Earth, it would cost Trillions of Dollars! They don't call them, "busy bees" for nothing!
Oh yeah, the marketplace! Did the marketplace save the US corn or dairy farmer? No. The US Government saved them. Is the marketplace , or private enterprise, going to risk the tons of $$$ investment in a Mars colony or colonization with no clear chance of financial return? Absolutely NOT!
My plan is to bring all sorts of plants that grow in cold dry climates and just bring them to Mars and plant them on the surface and hope some of them don't die and reproduce.
OK ---- Why only farm less than half your ship when you can farm all of the Space X Marsship using its main Lox and Methane tanks as additional growing Space... While the Header tanks can serve as storage using the LOX tank for Oxygen and the Methane tank for Water... With an airlock deck at the Base of the ship where the engines used to be for accessing the ship so no need to ride an external Elevator... The solar cells on the outer ship's hull providing power for the Grow lights during the day... Or better yet one or two of the Kilo-Power modules buried at the base using the Waste Heat to keep the Farm nice and toasty...
The Martian "soil" (regolith) will not only kill the worms, but 99.9% of all other life, whether plant or animal or fungus.(If the freezing ass cold doesn't get them first.) Average global temperature on Mars- 82 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. The Martian regolith is so toxic and poisonous, that if your backyard was like Martian dirt, it would be a designated Superfund site. No BS.
You "credit" several different RUclips channels for the clips used in this vid. Why not also post a link to those channels? Those clips looked worth diving deeper into.
Lamps for lighting plants are very difficult to make on Mars. On Mars, it is much easier to make transparent inflatable greenhouses with double or triple glass from Martian materials. On Mars, such greenhouses should be placed on the roofs of residential buildings to save heat. I think that on Earth such greenhouses will also be in demand.
First able to make a big building to create a lot of helmets the helmets will make water so those people will drink that water and use that water for the farms.
@@Nautilus1972 I mean, a simulation lab for some experiments. Of course is not a full experience, but is interesting and is the only one in Latin America
Perchlorates are the big unknown. Are they present on Mars's surface everywhere? Is it the same perchlorate on the planet? Saying you can just rinse it away is a bit ingenuous. That would require massive amounts of precious water which would then be toxic. Huge amounts of energy would then be needed to de-toxify the water and the perchlorate salts would have to be buried or they would build up in that locality.
According to everything I've read on this subject, Yes, perchlorates are planetwide on Mars in the Martian "soil". It's a Death World, and all these Mars colonization enthusiasts are either deluded or stupid, or perhaps both. (And we're talking about some very smart people here, who keep saying we can grow food on Mars, no problem, piece of cake.) To me, that last point is very disturbing, and should be to all other reasonably educated people.
Modern farming is done on rock-wool, you need water, climate control, temperature, light co2 controle, minerals for in the water, no soil, no chemicals, you need bugs to fight bugs...go to Wageningen University to see how 21th century farming works. the Netherlands is the second biggest food producer in the world for a reason...
How about the mental state of astronaut traveling long distances can AI psychologist doctor help their mental state in long-distance space travel like meditation or improve their mood swings
Yeah, but they (the "colonists") would have to bring most of those (organic) nutrients with them, which adds weight, lots of weight, to the total load on the "starship" (big chemical rocket). This is all folly and total bullshit!
Given everything we know about farming. Not seeing any value to growing plants in soil if your going to have to provide all the nutrients. The whole idea of growing in martian soil only makes sense if the soil contains nutrients or nutrient precursors our plants can use. Then you don't need to bring those nutrients with you.
As someone from an agricultural production and plant breeding background, I agree that the video leans too heavily toward an outdated but popular conception of farming (in soil). Vertical farming has decades of experience behind it now, especially in Japan and UAE. Even seed potatoes can be grown with aeroponics now. While it's true that aeroponics and hydroponics don't require soil, there are food crops that acquire nutrients indirectly from soil organisms and soil can also help a plant stand up and it blocks out light. It would be preferable in the long run not to rely on plant nutrients from Earth at all but to use Mars derived plant nutrients (including NPK mineral fertilizers and trace elements), soil organisms from Earth (which may require adding nitrogen to the air), composted human feces (heavy metals etc. removed), urine and food/plant waste.
Uhh… does it matter where the farm lab is if it’s air tight and temperature controlled? Why put it in the South Pole? Would have thought the soil and gravity are the toughest things to control on mars
I think over all the best way of growing that I think will be successful on Mars and the moon seems how it does have some gravity hydroponics real systems and Dutch bucket systems will be the best message of all because you can add nutrients directly to the medium film and the tank that will hold the water and using air raiders and air stones to put oxygen into the water I think is the best option overall I don’t know how many people are gonna react to this idea but you look at all the hydroponics that are being done now and the hydroponic test I believe have been done on the ISS and the thing is hydroponics you use like a sump pump in a tank that water is pumped into the rails as well as pumped into the Dutch bucket system and by keeping a constant flow of water going using the medium that is appropriate for hydroponics for the seeds to grow in I think is the best option overall can’t think of anything better than that and I think it’s gonna be the only effective way to be able to grow crops in space especially on the moon or mars without even having to use the soil just by having shipments of Rockville or other mediums that could be used to grow the plants in seed firm in start with and then transplanting those seedlings into the real system or Dutch bucket system where the roots within gross through that medium and hang down into the water as well as draw oxygen through some of the roots that would be above the water anybody wants to know more look up here on RUclips for hydroponics rail system or hydroponic Dutch bucket systems I think you’ll find those will be the best way to do it now so I should look at that and social Ellen mask melon mask and NASA and I am going to be growing hydroponics vegetables and everything that I can for my specific county that I live in which is Marion county Indianapolis Indiana United States to sell to those weeks lol income and to others as long as there was in the county that I live to those with low income and for those who live within this county
You might want to have a look at it , go to the University of Wageningen , Netherlands....... growing plants without soil has been done on a grand scale for decades already. the Netherlands is the second biggest food producer in the world, money-wise, because of these technologies. Hydro-culture, plants growing on rock-wool, water and minerals.. NASA is way behind....
I would suggest that you look back to the 40s/50/60s in South Florida. When we fed the US during the winter, most of the crops were grown on our coral rock. Earlier settlers to the areas use a digging bar and dynamite to create holes in the rock to grow trees. When D-7 thru D-9 dozers became available, they mounted teeth on the rock plows to go thru and break up the rock 2' wide each pass which gave a "soil" depth of about 4". Trees on our place were planted in rows plowed by a one foot wide rock plow that went down about 2 feet. That was all the wider the plow could be used with the power of a D-9 dozer. This is the Redland Farming District. It got its name by the small pockets of red clay that could in spots be found in the rock.
also the "recent" LED lights where developed by Phillips back in 2011. Or earlier even. I know this because I got to guard them around that time at a museum😅
At 3:46, the whole point of growing plants is to support human life. Changing its DNA is not going to change the nutrients that go into it, even if it does grow better.
Yeah using the top stage of the rocky it seems a fantastic idea For prepared food production I wouldn't imagine if anybody can Elon Musk Elon Musk the team can do it
Methinks that experimenting with both processed-simulated Moon and Martian soil and with contained hydroponic containers in an environment such as that of Antarctica would be the way to go. It could be that both will be of value for any future settlements on these two.
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U are brainless people that's why you steal data from German fashion designers 🤡😁😜
im the 5474 person to watch this vid
Great farming video😃, now how about meat? Rabbit? Chickens? Clone them there from DNA or transport them from earth? I raised both here and more, and to answer your question yes i would go if CRISPER genetics found how to remove 30 years😃
14:45 an even better route would be to max out the payload with growing supplies and once landed vent the propellant and utilize the tanks as well. If my memory serves me that's quadruple the space to grow in.
ll Ll lllllllllllllllllllllll
What effect would the lower gravity have on plants? Would trees grow massively high or end up weaker and small? I’ve not seen this factor addressed?
Good question. But why don’t we at least partially terraform the moon? The climate would be similar to ours and it’s next door. We really need to build a sunshade for Venus, freeze out it’s massive atmosphere and use massive rail guns to fire that excess atmosphere at every planet in our solar system we wish to give an atmosphere. We have the technology, just not the will it seems. At least when starship comes online it will be feasible.
@@9thebear Terraforming the moon wld require us to use something like "the proto molecule" and that is centuries ahead. Right now Mars is the best 👍💯 choice for Terraformation
We'll know only when we get to Mars
This time what went on in Vegas will not stay in Vegas!!
I met both Britney Spears and Elon Musk in 2000 at Bellagio. Britney just stared at me as she was singing on stage and I was standing in an archway above and nearby. I'm not sure if I was supposed to be standing up there by myself but I did have her undivided attention. A few days later Elon came up to me and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, in Las Vegas and Hawaii during that time. If I would I be fine answering a few questions. And if I was a gambling man? I stated, "I was on vacation and I only like to bet on things that are worth betting on!" I had earned these trips by qualifying reward points at my work. He asked, "What kind of work is it that you do?" I said, "Commercial energy saving promotions but I had been schooled in Automotive Marketing Business Administration and worked in that field for several years as well." He asked me, if I had millions of dollars to spend what would be the most innovative businesses that could help humanity? We talked about electric cars, we talked about solar energy and so many other subjects for over an hour. Even commercial space exploration for the consideration of colonization. That way all of humanity's eggs are not in one basket in case of another world war, asteroid strike, major climate change, etc. These we're very expensive and ambitious businesses to become successful at. Therefore we had to talk about ways of keeping a low overhead in advertising, distribution and the manufacturing. He said, "They were all very good ideas and that they should be done!" He said he had already made hundreds of millions off of a couple internet companies he started. "One of them was PayPal," he stated. Not that I had really done a lot of online banking or e-transfers at that time I didn't think much of it, until I noticed online about a year later that I could buy something off the computer with my PayPal card! Unfortunately I had just received a promotion as regional manager with the company I was working with. This made me let Elon know that I had to wait for a few years before I could assist further. I keep on sending out messages for the last 15 years hoping that he will get one and reply back. I will probably have to keep on trying, he gets more messages in a day then I would in five years! It is very inspiring to me to have a conversation with someone and they dedicate the next 20 years to making our conversation reality! We also talked about becoming your own best supplier and starting businesses that help your existing business. A type of slingshot effect that he has incorporated very well. It is so ambitious and amazing that he was willing to put pretty much all of his money where his mouth is and just make it happen with a consistent dedication. Congratulations Elon and I am looking forward to working with you again, one day in the near future! I still come up with innovative business ideas on a daily basis. Of course Britney I always wish her well and would enjoy meeting her again as well. Shoot for the Moon then Mars and then we will end up amongst the Stars! If you would like to learn more of these topics let me know. People with integrity expect to be believed otherwise they let time prove them right!
propower101@hotmail.com
@@rickcilo7567 Terraform planets doesn't need self-replicating nanobots, although having them would make stuff much easier. We can terraform a planet with technology of the near future, it's just the energy cost would be insurmountably high for humanity as of now. We need space based solar (vast solar arrays that dwarves planets) to power planet-spanning infrastructure to be able to terraform a planet, and the process would take thousands of years.
I would be a Mars Farmer in a heartbeat! It sounds like the perfect roles for someone like my self. Very little to leave behind and helping others in a situation where for the first time I could be happy! :D Plus I love to sing and apparently singing to your plants is a good thing (and your audience can't run away!!!)
@Sethia Saamis
I really hope this type of thing never happens, Mars Colonies are fucking stupid, The Cost, Psychological Effects, Physical Effects, Travel Time, Communications Time, Practical Problems and fucking terraforming outweigh the “benefits” of getting to Mars, What’s the point of getting to Mars? There’s no abundant amount of resources etc. Exploration? Doing that on the moon is WAY better; There’s a lot more important and research-based resources there, Such as Lunar Regolith, Helium-3, Lunar Ice Water etc. The Moon can also serve as a base for future deeper operations such as going to Jupiter or Saturn’s Moon or even Mars. The Moon can also serve as a really good observatory complex, safe from atmospheric interference. Mars Colony is a dumb idea and I pray it never happens. Especially having to cope with the fact that you’ll never see your friends and family again on Mars is a tough thing to cope with.
Seriously? Singing to plants benefits them? Veggie whisperers coming soon.
Sethia….you can’t be a genuine farmer without singing to and then mating with your cows!!!
living on mars would be terrible. Your entire life would be in very cramped quarters compared to life on Earth. Eventually once you are there long enough you will never be able to come back to Earth due to weakened muscles and bones.
@@bluesteel8376 Why would I want to come back to Earth? It sux here! No one can agree on anything and everyone has to have their two cents worth in regard to things that have nothing to do with them...
I think agriculture on the Moon and Mars will be doable by 2028+, based on this info and other things I've read. It will be a learning process, but life heroically fights to thrive already. We just need to learn how to help it in those tougher environments.
Okay, so how do we live under all that radiation?
@@Nautilus1972 There are a lot of breakthroughs in understanding & managing exposure, even down to discovering that solar radiation comes at certain angles on Mars. This helps in designing structures with shielding where it's needed most. Both Mars/moon offer plenty of craters to build in, which offer very big shielding from the radiation. Now add the 10 years before we're actually leaving people there for 6 months. We'll know even more by then. Plenty of tough work and research, but eventually humans can get this done.
Just stolen data
@@Nautilus1972 most recent mars colony concepts are built into the sides of cliffs for radiation protection. Only exposure is by the windows. Skylights utilize mirrors to give indirect sunlight from the top while giving cosmic radiation no direct path into the stricture. Much thought has been put into the whole radiation thing.
This time what went on in Vegas will not stay in Vegas!!
I met both Britney Spears and Elon Musk in 2000 at Bellagio. Britney just stared at me as she was singing on stage and I was standing in an archway above and nearby. I'm not sure if I was supposed to be standing up there by myself but I did have her undivided attention. A few days later Elon came up to me and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, in Las Vegas and Hawaii during that time. If I would I be fine answering a few questions. And if I was a gambling man? I stated, "I was on vacation and I only like to bet on things that are worth betting on!" I had earned these trips by qualifying reward points at my work. He asked, "What kind of work is it that you do?" I said, "Commercial energy saving promotions but I had been schooled in Automotive Marketing Business Administration and worked in that field for several years as well." He asked me, if I had millions of dollars to spend what would be the most innovative businesses that could help humanity? We talked about electric cars, we talked about solar energy and so many other subjects for over an hour. Even commercial space exploration for the consideration of colonization. That way all of humanity's eggs are not in one basket in case of another world war, asteroid strike, major climate change, etc. These we're very expensive and ambitious businesses to become successful at. Therefore we had to talk about ways of keeping a low overhead in advertising, distribution and the manufacturing. He said, "They were all very good ideas and that they should be done!" He said he had already made hundreds of millions off of a couple internet companies he started. "One of them was PayPal," he stated. Not that I had really done a lot of online banking or e-transfers at that time I didn't think much of it, until I noticed online about a year later that I could buy something off the computer with my PayPal card! Unfortunately I had just received a promotion as regional manager with the company I was working with. This made me let Elon know that I had to wait for a few years before I could assist further. I keep on sending out messages for the last 15 years hoping that he will get one and reply back. I will probably have to keep on trying, he gets more messages in a day then I would in five years! It is very inspiring to me to have a conversation with someone and they dedicate the next 20 years to making our conversation reality! We also talked about becoming your own best supplier and starting businesses that help your existing business. A type of slingshot effect that he has incorporated very well. It is so ambitious and amazing that he was willing to put pretty much all of his money where his mouth is and just make it happen with a consistent dedication. Congratulations Elon and I am looking forward to working with you again, one day in the near future! I still come up with innovative business ideas on a daily basis. Of course Britney I always wish her well and would enjoy meeting her again as well. Shoot for the Moon then Mars and then we will end up amongst the Stars! If you would like to learn more of these topics let me know. People with integrity expect to be believed otherwise they let time prove them right!
propower101@hotmail.com
good video. i love the idea of a Farm Starship. Also love the idea of a bacteria that can eat perchlorates and poop nitrogen.
It's Oxygen - The bacteria would produce Oxygen from the oxygen freed up from the Calcium Perchlorate in the soil ( Ca(ClO4)2 ). The 4 atoms of Oxygen get freed up from the calcium and chlorine. What a great way to do it!!
Just Love UR content! Keep up the great work!
Everything is stolen data. They are stupid as shit.
Man I always relate all these new advancements in space engineering back to The Expanse show. It's crazy how realistic the creators kept most of their ideas and created a great story around it, at least in my opinion.
Great show, yes, but not about farming. Their model wouldn't work. The hydroponics and aeroponics they used would need constant input of minerals and lack certain nutrients in the food. It would be much easier to establish healthy soil ecology in one of those domes on Ganymede. Then the microbes would extract the minerals the plants need from the rocks on Ganymede and through composting organic matter.
Yeh totally agree. the expanse is the best scifi show ever. love how the solar system in colonized. Wish we really see that in our life times!
man cant get too mars period. or take care of the homeless. too greedy.
america is 35 trillion in dept just think how many space shuttles full of space station or space port could have been built. NO space belongs too russia and china india they will work together and get the glory. america will be another mexico.
The bulk of the Belter diet in The Expanse was fermented organic waste (the mushrooms).
Very cool farming video. I haven't tried vertical farm produce, but it looks tasty
We ought to plant the trees on the earth first
@@haypiseth0102 that type of thinking underestimates what humans can accomplish. We can plant trees to make forests, culture plankton to populate new areas in the ocean, and use technology created for space travel to grow food. All at the same time.
@@haypiseth0102 what's stopping you from doing it now?
Would I go to Mars to be a farmer? In a heartbeat. I like the idea of converting a Starship into a farm once it gets to mars, that way it serves two purposes.
@@reversicle212 🤡 because why not. If it can be done, then we do it. Fuck that pessimism shit you are spouting.
@@reversicle212 Mars will be the doorway to the outer solar system and has actually much more ressources to support a sustainable colony. If you don't want to go, just stay at home, but don't waste your time on praying ;-)
@@reversicle212 -- People have trash-talked what they viewed as 'dumb ideas' going back an absurdly long time in recorded history. Many of these individuals boldly proclaimed that said 'dumb ideas' would never come to fruition. Achieving powered flight, and, successfully landing + repeatedly reusing first and second stages from rocket launches are among countless other examples of so-called 'dumb ideas' because they were both considered impossibly difficult in the past. But humanity chips away at such feats over time, and we find ways to make them possible. It's not always pretty and/or conventional, but a win is a win.
@@reversicle212 Having one would be the jumping point to allow us to begin to conquer the stars. Mars isn't the end goal, it's the beginning of a much larger endeavour. The issue is short-sighted people like you can't see the bigger picture. Mars will open the gates to the future!
The bulk of the food (the calories) will we produced synthetic (starch) and cellular by fermentation from basically scratch (cfr Solar Foods). Discussing lunar or martian soil for hortiiculture is basically a distraction if not a pure wast-of-time. Ressources like fertilizers will be so scarce that just throwing them in the soil would just not be feasible. We will indeed need highly intensive culture systems with maximal recirculation.
More complex molecules coming out of fermentation processes will be used to grow cell cultures of meat and fish.
with the vertical farming they could implement that trick with teh shifting book cases. basically you'd have like 6 panels with plants and a space like the hall.... but you can shift the panels of plants to keep the hall yet each panel is a growing zone. you could double or more, improve yield.
I see a lot of people commenting about the farming with no soil. That looks as the best solution at first, however it is not sustainable. You have to add all the nutrients in order to grow plants from which you eat only parts and then drop human waste at the exhaust which cannot go back into the system directly. The cycle is not closed.
In order to do faming with no soil on another planet means:
- Constant shipment of furtilizer - IN
- Constant dealing with waste - OUT
On the other hand if you realy try to be self sufficient on Mars or Moon you need the soil and all the creatures living inside of it to close the gap in the OUT -> IN cycle.
For anyone who is trying to think deeper into the subject can check Wikipedia: Nitrogen cycle / Potassium cycle / Phosphorus cycle / Calcium cycle / etc...
Self sufficient farming means a process in which you add ONLY energy and nothing else.
Yes, what's missing in all the ideas in the video is that healthy soil is a massive microbial ecosystem, with THE MOST SPECIES of any ecosystem on Earth (not the dirt our industrial agriculture leaves behind, I mean grassland and forest soils). We need to take that with us to use it's full power, and frankly, to be able to survive.
The same goes for lunar or martian soil, and it will be a lot harder to recycle it from that as compared to close hydroponic systems.
i'm a geologist professionally and a hobbyist botanist and gardener, i also own the largest 8-track tape collection in Snohomish County.... I have been studying and crunching numbers on the topic of self-sufficiency on Mars for a decade and spent 3 months writing a summary for interested parties. My data changes as technology advances so it has turned into a nightmare never ending project that i sincerely regret starting. That said and with all things considered, from intended population, to atmospheric conditions to gravity to water i have concluded, several times that the only feasible method of sustaining long duration stays on Mars is underground. The good news? There are more than likely lava tubes that could be quite inhabitable, boring machines could be possible too.
Probably hydroponics not soil, as we'll have more control over what nutrients are delivered, and their ratio, as well as regulating pH, packing in a high density, and avoiding radiation by growing them underground.
“Lettuce know”...
I like what you did there!
give everyone 9m diameter luxury apartments, build river-like lakes for indoor walks, seafood and o2 algea (ice as building material be self healing and give vast structres in no time)
once it rains fish can survive mars nature
Wow! Setting up and sending a Farm version of a Starship would be the awesome way to go! That's alot of space that could be well utilized for dedicated farming! Do IT!!
Then - To answer the question about "would I go to Mars to be a Mars Farmer"?? Hell Yeah!! As a farmer in Kansas currently, (growing Alfalfa!), I'd LOVE the opportunity to add my farming expertise and experience to a Mars Colony!! Hell Yeah I'd go in a hot second!!
Good video - Thanks for this.
14:12 this the best idea about martian mission i have heard so far.....👏✍
This is cool. I have said many times I volunteer to be the first to go to Mars and especially to be the farmer. Yep, that's me, Ron Mars farmer extraordinaire.
It may be cool and, moreso, it may "look" cool. But it's really not. Go ahead and volunteer, and when you get there, within a few days (or less), you'll want to come back to warm, wet, oxygenated, normal gravity and normal air pressured Mother Earth.
Earth- with forests of trees and innumerable other plants, and lakes and flowing rivers, green meadows, creatures of all kinds abounding, vast oceans of liquid water, blue nitrogen skies, an ozone layer protecting against UV light from the Sun, and a magnetosphere protecting agains Solar Energetic Particles, and, more deadly, Galactic Cosmic Rays. You will have None of the Above on Mars.
Growing plants without soil has been around for awhile. The U.S. Navy was experimenting with hydroponics back in the 70's in Newfoundland.
We did it at IFAS also during those time periods. I have some Avocado trees here that were grown for their first 10 years without soil in cutoff 55 gallon drums. They had to be removed from the drums at that time as they were becoming root bound. 40 years later they are still producing although they now are in the ground. Our area of Florida grows most plants in a modified hydroponics form as we have very little top soil in most areas. We used D-8 and D-9 dozers to break up the rock and then applied fertilizer and water.
Now grow plants with massive amounts of radiation ...
@@Nautilus1972 That will be a problem, on the surface. But can be done underground. I worked on growth chambers that could grow anything under any simulated lighting, temp, and humidity conditions. Even to the point of not using any soil but using mixes of rock, perlite, peat moss. We could even increase the carbon dioxide levels in them. And that was in the late 70s-mid 80s. Now days, we could likely even simulate the lower pressures that would be found on Mars. Not sure about the dust but if underground, that won't be as much of a problem either.
Grow plants near the side ends of the habitats by windows with the help of mirrors inside and outside the habitat. Mars gets extremely cold at night. A habitat could be covered over with regolith to protect from micro meteorites and radiation. That leaves the side ends. Other areas inside could be grown with LED lights.
I don't remember if the movie brought it up, but there was a tad more work and explanation done on the crop soil. Mark had sample quantities of Earth soil, and he mixed those into his Martian crop soil, then lets the soil sit for days before actual planting. It was something like allowing the bacteria in Earth soil to propagate. Said it was the bacteria that allowed plants to grow.
Those shipping containers would be flat packed and not made of metal. I'd hazard a guess that 20-40+ could be packed into a single Starship. Tbh if they took the shape of the payload bay and redesigned it, that number could be substantially higher
Agriculture! Great idea . Looking forward for this smart idea
Great video. I didn't know we can grow food in containers. Seems like problem served, 3D print them on Mars and create several container farms.
Solved
"320 square feet of volume"??? That makes no sense,dude.
I assume that you are either referring to
a 20' container giving ~320 square feet of available area ie approx 20' length x ~8' height x 2 sides =~320sq.ft or
a 40' container giving ~320 sq.ft per long wall x 2 = ~640 sq.ft.
damn, you beat me to it... I've rewind the spot three times just make sure he actually said that... maybe, he's just a voice over or didn't author the content for that segment... whatever the case, I really enjoy these updates and been watching them ever since the very first one, 10 kilometers ago ;)
AS most Dutch tomatoes and bell peppers grow on rock wool and water with minerals....there is no need for soil, just make rock wool, and have the right recipe of minerals..
And in 1/3 Earth gravity, massive radiation ....
@@Nautilus1972 also people will need protection from that radiation, so what's the difference?
I agree using the soil is unlikely and not a short term answer, however I wonder if a long term, several decade or even century plan could be used. Something that would slowly turn a soil from infertile and unusable to something fertile over the period of the project.
Food will be grown in bioreactors. Companies like bioharvest and good meat are showing its possible already.
Regarding potatoes, I'm sure a little Tesla mini tug will help them move it. Solar charged of course. But the fling Starship farm is interesting. Fly the dirt in, grow the kale or whatever. Ship it down the elevator. And the farmers can bask in the Sun at night. Or day. I love a Mars farmers tan.
Nice vid, full of hard science, with none of the finding life on Mars fantasy.
This vid is NOT full of hard science. It's full of bullshit, fantasy, and for now, science fiction.
I am not sure but the University of Nebraska at Lincoln, is an agricultural college. They may have many answers to this also.
IFAS has years of research materials from growing crops on our rock down here.
Farming will most likely need to be done hydroponically at first. Converting Mars soil into something useful will take time. We would need to bring secondary additives such as micro organisms/ worms for the soil. Composting over a long period of time would be required to enrich the soil enough to be viable for plant growth.
Very informative! Thanks
Have you tryed, growing Asian Lime Grass..??? They live in all soil.
Nutrients can be provided so there is no reason to grow in soil at all. "Soil" only needs to be an inert media like rockwool which is just melted basalt rock spun into fibers.
The biomass of the substrate (soil) matters the most. Millions, if not billions, of microscopic lifeforms, per cubic meter, are an integral part of fertile soil for growing plants on Earth.
A powerful nuclear power source seems essential as Mars is very cold and solar is weak there.
(melt large amounts of ice with reflectors, water absorbs dust and radiation as heat, boiloff be greenhouse insulation and atmospheric pressure)
Fixing moon regolith to be suitable for plant growth or even mars regolith would be easy if enough compost from earth was introduced to the regolith and allowed to break down into the ground with continuous replacement then composting anything that grows in the substrate back into the ground over time would become more than suitable for plant growth it would just take a lot of input and take several years at a minimum before anything of quality to be produced
We can even bring some soil or stuff to enrich mars soil . A possible mix at first or bring a ton of seeds and see what likes it too .
great video, am disabled, but I see myself going to Mars, and it should be that easy to figure it out for people like me, just saying 😉 vote for me to go to Mars...
Imagine outfitting a robotic ship with the ability to have a robo-farm, which includes setting up self-contained "pods" that use 3D printing tech developed for making human habitation including Martian soil, but instead of building pod homes, they make pod-farms, and create it such that the first ship creates far more "pod farms" than it can personally farm, and have later missions send more robots to start filling out all the already created pod farms with plants and other supplies to make the pod farms into large scale self-contained and renewable farming. Add in some robot miners that can find and supply these pod-farms with water, you could set up something in advance of humans that could support the first colonists before they even get there.
If these vegies can be grown in space I suppose lab grown meat cold be 'grown' as well
Sun flowers and hemo would be a good starting point a better starting point would be if you can make it work in mars then maybe you should try and use that to make it work on earth
We also have the same problem on Earth where some soils do not support plant growth.
We use fertiliser to solve this problem!
Even on Earth we're running out of them ...
This time what went on in Vegas will not stay in Vegas!!
I met both Britney Spears and Elon Musk in 2000 at Bellagio. Britney just stared at me as she was singing on stage and I was standing in an archway above and nearby. I'm not sure if I was supposed to be standing up there by myself but I did have her undivided attention. A few days later Elon came up to me and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, in Las Vegas and Hawaii during that time. If I would I be fine answering a few questions. And if I was a gambling man? I stated, "I was on vacation and I only like to bet on things that are worth betting on!" I had earned these trips by qualifying reward points at my work. He asked, "What kind of work is it that you do?" I said, "Commercial energy saving promotions but I had been schooled in Automotive Marketing Business Administration and worked in that field for several years as well." He asked me, if I had millions of dollars to spend what would be the most innovative businesses that could help humanity? We talked about electric cars, we talked about solar energy and so many other subjects for over an hour. Even commercial space exploration for the consideration of colonization. That way all of humanity's eggs are not in one basket in case of another world war, asteroid strike, major climate change, etc. These we're very expensive and ambitious businesses to become successful at. Therefore we had to talk about ways of keeping a low overhead in advertising, distribution and the manufacturing. He said, "They were all very good ideas and that they should be done!" He said he had already made hundreds of millions off of a couple internet companies he started. "One of them was PayPal," he stated. Not that I had really done a lot of online banking or e-transfers at that time I didn't think much of it, until I noticed online about a year later that I could buy something off the computer with my PayPal card! Unfortunately I had just received a promotion as regional manager with the company I was working with. This made me let Elon know that I had to wait for a few years before I could assist further. I keep on sending out messages for the last 15 years hoping that he will get one and reply back. I will probably have to keep on trying, he gets more messages in a day then I would in five years! It is very inspiring to me to have a conversation with someone and they dedicate the next 20 years to making our conversation reality! We also talked about becoming your own best supplier and starting businesses that help your existing business. A type of slingshot effect that he has incorporated very well. It is so ambitious and amazing that he was willing to put pretty much all of his money where his mouth is and just make it happen with a consistent dedication. Congratulations Elon and I am looking forward to working with you again, one day in the near future! I still come up with innovative business ideas on a daily basis. Of course Britney I always wish her well and would enjoy meeting her again as well. Shoot for the Moon then Mars and then we will end up amongst the Stars! If you would like to learn more of these topics let me know. People with integrity expect to be believed otherwise they let time prove them right!
propower101@hotmail.com
An acquaintance would mix potassium perchlorate with sugar to make a kind of gunpowder. Heat liberates elemental oxygen from the perchlorate just as it does with potassium nitrate. So while engineered bacteria could free oxygen from perchlorate Martian soil, heating the soil could also.
Are you sure it wasn't Potassium Permanganate ?
This is interesting especially with the testing of moon and Mars soil but one thing I see missing or maybe I missed it is candy grow in a different gravity because there is less gravity on the moon and Mars so can it still grow
I hope eventually aquaponics could be used.
It doesn't even work efficiently on Earth. In space we will need ultra-efficient production methods.
In polytunnels? But I recently heard you can have too much CO2 for plants to grow any info on this? they say about three hundred parts per million is th sweet spot at one atmosphere.
If we can upgrade humanity before we venture forth, we won't need to eat, sleep, drink or do anything else we currently have to. Combine Neuro Link and Nano mites. We would never stop upgrading and adapting to everything. Always becoming better.
Be it the Moon or Mars, who cares about the Regolith ! Hydroponics, hello !!
And then once the land is fully clear of ice we could have multiple satellites up there directing sunlight down there to help make it not be so cold!!
Wouldn't be as easy as Matt Damon made it look in "The Martian"? Are you nuts? The elaborate process he had to endure to just create potatoes is orders of magnitude higher than what it will actually require to farm on Mars. I really don't understand why people fixate on mankind having to till the soil and use traditional farming methods as the one way to grow food on the red planet. Aquaculture, aeroponics, and hydroponics are going to be the most viable forms of farming methods used. It's fascinating to see people unable and unwilling to grasp the idea that it will be anything other than those forms of farming.
"I really don't understand why people fixate on mankind having to till the soil and use traditional farming methods as the one way to grow food on the red planet." Exactly! It's extremely narrow-minded.
But forget complex processes like aquaculture or aquaponics too!
Wow that would be cool to make ship just like a farm to make it to go to Mars.
Mars and moon soil needed manure , fertilizer and water for plants to grow there in green house
First, we would have to detoxify the Martian "soil" (regolith). Planetwide, it is riddled with perchorates, which are, to my knowledge, sodium-chlorine compunds that attach to various elements, iron, aluminum, magnesium, etc., and are utterly toxic to all known plant and animal life, certain cyanobacteria being the exceptions. Martian regolith is also riddled with lead, arsenic, and mercury. It's an extremely deadly cocktail of lethal toxins.
Even with greenhouses, it will probably be too cold to grow anything on Mars. Average global temp on Mars is Negative 82 degrees below zero on Mars, and it gets much colder than that. At the north pole of Mars, where most of the water ice is, it gets as low as 225 degrees below zero F. For comparison, the coldest temp ever recorded on Earth was in Antarctica, at 157 degrees below F. And no one wants to live permanently in Antarctica.
I wonder what impact the reduced gravity would have on vegetation, if any 🤔
I'm not an expert! But I believe gravity plays a role in the transport of water around the plant. Less gravity = less efficient transport of water and transpiration.
Plants are regularly grown on the ISS. There is likely a lot of research available.
Why do we not just grow in hydroponics? Better and more efficient. No need for soil anymore. You need to think in multiple dimensions. Hydroponics is the best solution!
All those ideas will not be sufficient. What's totally missing in them is knowledge about how the soil food web works here on Earth. And to be fair, that's also true thoughout most of industrial agriculture currently... The plants get most of their minerals from soil microbes, that dissolve rocks, and from fungi and other bacteria, that dissolve organic matter. Plants give back carbohydrates through their roots to grow those fungi.
The aeroponics and hydroponics that's used in the shipping containers works, but needs constant input of salts produced somewhere else, probably be transported there from Earth. WE LIVE ON AN ECOSYSTEM OF MICROBES AND THEY DO VERY WELL, after all they were a couple billion years longer here than us...
To be successful with living on other planets and on large space stations we need to establish Earth's soil biology there. To start with that is actually easy: Bring some living soil to Mars and use composting, and later when there is enough space, establish grassland and forest soils! We can't avoid bringing Earth's microbes with us anyway, because we are microbial ecosystems too :), an extension of the soil.
What about bugs as a food source - they seem pretty good at adaptions.
What will you feed them?
That's not true, Matt Damon didn't just use his own poop. He used his own and everybody's poop. lol
👍 NICE
Hope I live long enough to make the first Martian cigars :).
I thought you had to grow good fungus in soil before you could grow good plants. you have to make the soil live before its any good.
Exactly right M8
With growing food on Mars and the Moon. What will be used to pollinate the crops?
Well, we can't just take plant life with us, we have to take animal life as well: bees and other bugs, etc,. Hell, microscopic bugs (as well as macroscopic worms) are important components to any fertile Earth growing soils.
Human hands will do it. There will not be that many crops
@@sidstevens9035 In that case, it won't be worth it. How many, 'human hands' do the job of pollinating insects on Earth? If we can't do it here, what makes you think we can do it on the Moon or Mars? Even if we could artificially pollinate our fruit and vegetable crops here on Earth, it would cost Trillions of Dollars! They don't call them, "busy bees" for nothing!
The confluence of information will save the day. So will the marketplace.
Oh yeah, the marketplace! Did the marketplace save the US corn or dairy farmer? No. The US Government saved them. Is the marketplace , or private enterprise, going to risk the tons of $$$ investment in a Mars colony or colonization with no clear chance of financial return? Absolutely NOT!
My plan is to bring all sorts of plants that grow in cold dry climates and just bring them to Mars and plant them on the surface and hope some of them don't die and reproduce.
OK ---- Why only farm less than half your ship when you can farm all of the Space X Marsship using its main Lox and Methane tanks as additional growing Space... While the Header tanks can serve as storage using the LOX tank for Oxygen and the Methane tank for Water... With an airlock deck at the Base of the ship where the engines used to be for accessing the ship so no need to ride an external Elevator... The solar cells on the outer ship's hull providing power for the Grow lights during the day... Or better yet one or two of the Kilo-Power modules buried at the base using the Waste Heat to keep the Farm nice and toasty...
I wonder if it would be possible to take worms there to improve the soil
The Martian "soil" (regolith) will not only kill the worms, but 99.9% of all other life, whether plant or animal or fungus.(If the freezing ass cold doesn't get them first.) Average global temperature on Mars- 82 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. The Martian regolith is so toxic and poisonous, that if your backyard was like Martian dirt, it would be a designated Superfund site. No BS.
You "credit" several different RUclips channels for the clips used in this vid. Why not also post a link to those channels? Those clips looked worth diving deeper into.
Lamps for lighting plants are very difficult to make on Mars.
On Mars, it is much easier to make transparent inflatable greenhouses with double or triple glass from Martian materials.
On Mars, such greenhouses should be placed on the roofs of residential buildings to save heat.
I think that on Earth such greenhouses will also be in demand.
First able to make a big building to create a lot of helmets the helmets will make water so those people will drink that water and use that water for the farms.
At 13:15, why won't a freezer help?
The soil from Mars will need to be cleaned before use. Moon soil, or regolith, is more readily useable.
Great
Check "Solar 54", an Argentinean project for a simulation of Mars habitat based on La Rioja province.
A simulation? So they have a third of the earth's gravity and many many times the lethal radiation? Cool.
@@Nautilus1972 I mean, a simulation lab for some experiments. Of course is not a full experience, but is interesting and is the only one in Latin America
Perchlorates are the big unknown. Are they present on Mars's surface everywhere? Is it the same perchlorate on the planet? Saying you can just rinse it away is a bit ingenuous. That would require massive amounts of precious water which would then be toxic. Huge amounts of energy would then be needed to de-toxify the water and the perchlorate salts would have to be buried or they would build up in that locality.
According to everything I've read on this subject, Yes, perchlorates are planetwide on Mars in the Martian "soil". It's a Death World, and all these Mars colonization enthusiasts are either deluded or stupid, or perhaps both. (And we're talking about some very smart people here, who keep saying we can grow food on Mars, no problem, piece of cake.) To me, that last point is very disturbing, and should be to all other reasonably educated people.
No mention of hydroponics or aquaponics? Why bother with 'soils' at all on either moon or Mars if non-soil methods can be potentially more productive?
Modern farming is done on rock-wool, you need water, climate control, temperature, light co2 controle, minerals for in the water, no soil, no chemicals, you need bugs to fight bugs...go to Wageningen University to see how 21th century farming works. the Netherlands is the second biggest food producer in the world for a reason...
Yum what about baked beans and ham
How about the mental state of astronaut traveling long distances can AI psychologist doctor help their mental state in long-distance space travel like meditation or improve their mood swings
Ask the submarine crews ;-)
Growing hydroponically might be a better initial solution
Yeah, but they (the "colonists") would have to bring most of those (organic) nutrients with them, which adds weight, lots of weight, to the total load on the "starship" (big chemical rocket). This is all folly and total bullshit!
Where can you get water for these plants 😴😴😴😮
Given everything we know about farming. Not seeing any value to growing plants in soil if your going to have to provide all the nutrients.
The whole idea of growing in martian soil only makes sense if the soil contains nutrients or nutrient precursors our plants can use. Then you don't need to bring those nutrients with you.
As someone from an agricultural production and plant breeding background, I agree that the video leans too heavily toward an outdated but popular conception of farming (in soil). Vertical farming has decades of experience behind it now, especially in Japan and UAE. Even seed potatoes can be grown with aeroponics now. While it's true that aeroponics and hydroponics don't require soil, there are food crops that acquire nutrients indirectly from soil organisms and soil can also help a plant stand up and it blocks out light. It would be preferable in the long run not to rely on plant nutrients from Earth at all but to use Mars derived plant nutrients (including NPK mineral fertilizers and trace elements), soil organisms from Earth (which may require adding nitrogen to the air), composted human feces (heavy metals etc. removed), urine and food/plant waste.
Amazing life 😍
Uhh… does it matter where the farm lab is if it’s air tight and temperature controlled? Why put it in the South Pole? Would have thought the soil and gravity are the toughest things to control on mars
Burger King on Venus and I'll be stompin'
I think over all the best way of growing that I think will be successful on Mars and the moon seems how it does have some gravity hydroponics real systems and Dutch bucket systems will be the best message of all because you can add nutrients directly to the medium film and the tank that will hold the water and using air raiders and air stones to put oxygen into the water I think is the best option overall I don’t know how many people are gonna react to this idea but you look at all the hydroponics that are being done now and the hydroponic test I believe have been done on the ISS and the thing is hydroponics you use like a sump pump in a tank that water is pumped into the rails as well as pumped into the Dutch bucket system and by keeping a constant flow of water going using the medium that is appropriate for hydroponics for the seeds to grow in I think is the best option overall can’t think of anything better than that and I think it’s gonna be the only effective way to be able to grow crops in space especially on the moon or mars without even having to use the soil just by having shipments of Rockville or other mediums that could be used to grow the plants in seed firm in start with and then transplanting those seedlings into the real system or Dutch bucket system where the roots within gross through that medium and hang down into the water as well as draw oxygen through some of the roots that would be above the water anybody wants to know more look up here on RUclips for hydroponics rail system or hydroponic Dutch bucket systems I think you’ll find those will be the best way to do it now so I should look at that and social Ellen mask melon mask and NASA and I am going to be growing hydroponics vegetables and everything that I can for my specific county that I live in which is Marion county Indianapolis Indiana United States to sell to those weeks lol income and to others as long as there was in the county that I live to those with low income and for those who live within this county
You might want to have a look at it , go to the University of Wageningen , Netherlands....... growing plants without soil has been done on a grand scale for decades already. the Netherlands is the second biggest food producer in the world, money-wise, because of these technologies. Hydro-culture, plants growing on rock-wool, water and minerals.. NASA is way behind....
I would suggest that you look back to the 40s/50/60s in South Florida. When we fed the US during the winter, most of the crops were grown on our coral rock. Earlier settlers to the areas use a digging bar and dynamite to create holes in the rock to grow trees. When D-7 thru D-9 dozers became available, they mounted teeth on the rock plows to go thru and break up the rock 2' wide each pass which gave a "soil" depth of about 4". Trees on our place were planted in rows plowed by a one foot wide rock plow that went down about 2 feet. That was all the wider the plow could be used with the power of a D-9 dozer. This is the Redland Farming District. It got its name by the small pockets of red clay that could in spots be found in the rock.
also the "recent" LED lights where developed by Phillips back in 2011. Or earlier even. I know this because I got to guard them around that time at a museum😅
@@Goulmy86 The ones I put in back then were all florescent.
Sorry to be that guy, but the zh in zhurong is pronounced like the s in measure or the ge in fuselage.
At 3:46, the whole point of growing plants is to support human life. Changing its DNA is not going to change the nutrients that go into it, even if it does grow better.
Begs the question of why they didnt just take some seeds and water with them on the rover.. how heavy could it be..
We haven't even come close to developing a closed system here on earth. All attempts have failed.
Peter Beck is more of an expert on Mars. After all, he's going to Mars before Elon does.
Yeah using the top stage of the rocky it seems a fantastic idea For prepared food production I wouldn't imagine if anybody can Elon Musk Elon Musk the team can do it
interesting
0:12 you received a message on your phone or something
= to be hydro phonics to grow food on mars?
Methinks that experimenting with both processed-simulated Moon and Martian soil and with contained hydroponic containers in an environment such as that of Antarctica would be the way to go. It could be that both will be of value for any future settlements on these two.
150 billion costs my data and you should always name the source. Lilly Black gave them this important data.