How do Monster Catchers Catch Monsters?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 окт 2023
- We'll be looking into the origins of the Monster Taming genre to see how monsters were "caught", and then I share my plans and my latest creature of my Stema Project.
Thank you to @FCPlaythroughs and @worldoflongplays for the gameplay footage
Learn more through the links below:
Imaginary Time: • Imaginary Time: Stephe...
Stephen Hawking Interview: • What is imaginary time...
Additional Video Sources:
Shim Megami Tensei II: • Shin Megami Tensei II ...
Dragon Quest: • Let's Recruit Dragon Q...
Digimon World Dusk: • Digimon World: Dusk Pl...
Temtem: store.steampowered.com/app/74...
Coromon: store.steampowered.com/app/12...
Cassette Beasts: store.steampowered.com/app/13...
Twitch ► / n0rtist
Twitter ► / n0rtist
Instagram ► / n0rtist
Patreon ► / n0rtist
#pokemon #digimon #gamedev #stem #fakemon
Hear me out: test tubes. You could have the goop inside the tube be different "teleportation" materials that have better chances of catching, for lack of a better term, stemas based on where they're found (such as blue for on water, green for plant life, red for combustible stemas). The summoning animation could be the character opening/breaking the tube and having the chosen stema emerge from the newly released goop.
I love that idea!
the Raidou games use something similar
Or you have to "catch" them with different equipments depending on different stem units of the creatures. Like test tubes for Chemistry and Biology creatures, calculator for Engineering/Physics, Maths creatures and ink blob painting for Psychology and Social Science based creatures, and so on.
Ooh how about Eppendorf tubes! They look cute and compact, and they even have little lids that swing open like Poké Balls
This is a great idea, he'd have to come up with a way for it to look reusable though, since if it breaks then there's no returning the goop inside it, but it's not that big a problem
In Mystery Dungeon, you beat a Pokemon and they might randomly want to join you
In Ranger, you spin to win
Just let it rip. They should make a Ranger x Beyblade crossover title.
felt like I should mention how the Yo-kai watch series of games handles monster taming/catching, since it's a somewhat interesting case and varies from game to game :
starting with the in-lore reason, each Yo-kai has a "Yo-kai medal" (or "Yo-kai keystone" in YW4) which they offer a human after befriending them. this human can then, as long as they own the titular "Yo-kai watch", summon this specific Yo-kai. other than that they're just living their lives off screen, no "refuses to come because they are overleveled" system though
now for how they're obtained in the gameplay :
- you can free a Yo-kai from the "crank-a-kai" (which is basically a gacha machine prison) at which point they will thank you and give you their medal
- some are unlocked through story progression (either main story or side quest) where they will give their medals upon completion of said quest or during it's events
- for YW1 through 3 : the system is very similar to dragon quest where they will show up after the battle is over to ask to join your party, but you can increase chances of this happening by various things like giving them their favorite food or having a Yo-kai with the "popularity" skill on your party
-for the YWblasters spinoff and side modes : after being defeated Yo-kai have a small chance of staying down instead of despawning, letting the player approach them to do a small minigame and befriend them
-for YW4 : yo-kai can stay down just like in blasters, at which point you can extract "kon" (which is basically part of their soul) out of them and then use an amount of kon specific to the Yo-kai, some money, and sometimes a specific item, to craft a new Yo-kai of that "species" for lack of a better term
TL;DR : they started with a befriending system ala dragon quest but evolved into a EXTRACT THEIR SOULS AND MAKE A PERFECT REPLICA system
fun!
yoo i was thinking of yokaiwatch too when he said monter befriending
@@carrotsusu7996 YES SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME REMEMBERS YO-KAI WATCH
this was EXACTLY what i was thinking when they explained their portal system!
Honestly how did he forget about this game bro
YOKAI WATCH MENTIONED, LETS FUKING GOOOO
the "creature teleports to the location of the trainer" is actually the method yokai watch went with! ive always thought it was cool
Reminds me of the Summoning Jutsu in Naruto.
fossil fighters was a great monster collector where you dig up fossils and revive them into your monsters to fight other trainers. the are revived into medals that contain the data for the dios and it basically creates a hologram
Yoooo I was just about to comment about fossil fighters!
Fossil Fighters fans, rise!
Spectrobes is another one like that, but with other plants.
I always found Fossil Fighters so much less tedious than Pokémon for the simple reason of not having to battle the Pokémon you want. Sure you have to clean them after, but the cleaning process is Fun!
Yea Fossil Fighter gang
Really wish for a new game though the last one wasn’t too good though
(Would also love spectrobe again if Disney bother to make more)
I really like the idea of representing the stema’s being tamed/befriended by having a flash card being used as a pseudo identification card for the stema’s!
On the subject of Cassette Beasts, that decision to not catch monsters was very much consciously made to avoid the "dog/rooster fight" connotations Pokémon and it's likes have been accused of.
Dragon Quest, meanwhile, had a whole subseries focused on the Monsters; the first two Game Boy games had you giving 'em meats for a chance at recruitment, but the later games instead has your team try to impress them into joining you (meat still helps), increasing a visible percentage.
I like that way of doing it, especially since it makes scouting simple (and easy, if ya have strong pals)
On another note, I also find it interesting how in (Shin) Megami Tensei, you're not actually making friends; you're contracting demons to assist you and they do so if they feel like it. You're not supposed to feel attached to them, especially since you'll eventually have to fuse them to create new, stronger ones (same thing happens in Dragon Quest Monsters)
On a final note, I gotta admit that the fact a lot of the Pokémon that join the anime's crew do so willingly is one of my favourite aspects of it, to be candid
Dog/rooster fight? Its just a game that has nothing to do with reality.
@@TheTrueSirPenguin Yeah, that much is true, but that is how it can be perceived as a parallel to. I don't make the consensus.
@@TheTrueSirPenguintrue, but they do get criticized for it often. Especially back in the 90s and early 2000s. Christian parents would say Pokémon were either demons or praising cockfighting and dog fight pits
That's exactly one of the aspects I don't like from the Pokemon anime because it doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of Pokemon itself consequently. It severely hurts the trainers' credibility who can't really be called Pokemon trainers if they don't do what a Pokemon trainer is supposed to do. There is a huge lack of coherence with the whole franchise. It's also just admitting Pokemon major concept's flaw by finding any other way but catching pokemon usually.
Funnily enough, the Scan mechanic from the Digimon Story series can actually be applied to this project. Think about it this way: Instead of having an scanning machine, the player simply records data on the Stema during each battle (maybe every turn that the creature makes a move), which is shown as a percentage that stays the same permanently - in other words, you study them each battle and learn more about them.
Unlike in Digimon, however, this percentage wouldn't be used to just create another of that Stema's species (although it wouldn't be out of the question), but instead, if the percentage of information you've gotten on the creature is high enough, you'll receive a bonus to your catch rate. The percentage remains even after you've caught the creature, too, which helps catching further of that same species if such a thing is even necessary in Stema.
I love recording the essence of my enemies on cassettes
Oh a cassette beasts fan, like me
CASSETTE BEASTS MENTIONED!!!
I FRICKING LOVE RECORDING MY ENEMIES ON CASSETTES
I WANT TO FRICKING TRANSFORM INTO MY MONSTERS AND BATTLE OTHER MONSTERS
@@pixelpretzel4546AND ME
Amen brother
here's an idea for a collecting mechanic: maybe it's like your notebook or a school textbook. Instead of literally "catching" a stema maybe you research it like darwin taking notes of how a finch behaves and sketching it out. This could also work as a pokedex of sorts, like a textbook full of all the creatures you've come across in your studies. Also when you send one out to battle it's not literally teleporting a little animal around, but instead more like a battle of knowledge, to see whose scientific wit holds up better. Y'know it's like thematic since the whole game will be based off of STEM topics.
This one's good I like it
I love this idea!! i just imagine anime characters pushing up their glasses and having mental debate battles over stem 😂😂
Calling the 'um, actually' meta now!@@theactualashley
@@theactualashleyyes....just yes
Extension to that- you sketch the stemma in your notes, creating a bond between the two. If you want to use that stemma, throw the card down and it summons a, like, maybe astral projected stemma of that one? It also adds an idea for releasing it and a box, the box is your notebook, and if you want to release it, you tear that stemmas page off the book.
Since your monsters represent scientific concepts, a cool "catching/taming" mechanic could be something related to the acquisition of knowledge. How do you learn something? By repetition and by forming an emotional connection to the material you're learning (think for example about the various memorization techniques that require you to "imagine a funny story" that includes the concept that you're trying to learn, and the funnier it is, the easier it is to remember). The repetition part could be implemented by making it so that you need to fight each monster a set amount of times before you can obtain them, maybe because each time you defeat them they drop "knowledge shards" or something and once you have enough you can "summon" the creature in full, with stronger creatures requiring more "shards". The emotional connection part, instead, could be implemented as a "requirement" that the player must fulfill and influences the way the "shards" are dropped, and can be unique to the monster or its type: maybe a monster inspired to speed-related concepts only drops its "shards" when defeated within a set amount of turns, or maybe a monster inspired to dangerous/destructive ideas like fire, desease, or similar only drops its "shards" when defeated in a more "aggressive" way, such as with a super-effective move or by another monster that is X levels above its own (as if it's being overpowered by a stronger force than itself), etc. It would make for a very cool catching mechanic that actually engages the player and incentivizes theorycrafting and planning in advance for what's the most efficient way to obtain a specific type of monster.
The upcoming Beastieball actually does that "requirements" thing!
Although, recruiting in general in that game is made more complex that way because it needs to be a conscious decision; you only need to recruit the creatures you're interested in.
This doesn’t sound bad, it would be cool to have to catch certain other mons in a “subject” and that helps with catching the one you like as you’ve become a knowledge expert in that tree
Would incentivize catching them all, a journey to catch the one you like, increased playtime, and maybe even forming a bond along the way you didn’t expect
The whole idea of calling your monsters to come help you reminds me of another monster tamer franchise. Yo-Kai Watch. Definitely interesting how varied the genre actually is when you look into it.
Thank you for addressing Digimon’s roots as a v-pet. Its games vary wildly because, unlike Pokémon, it doesn’t have a video game as a strong central axis.
In the beginning, every game was a “World” game. Now, Digimon World games are v-pet RPGs. You still have your partner, just like in a v-pet (or pair of partners, just like in the 20th anniversary v-pets), and you raise them through their various life cycles, getting different forms based on how you care for them. The Digimon that you do talk to are recruited to the town which will build over time, unlocking more options for you at the hub. For example, more daily food, better recovery items, and fast travel.
The Digimon Story games started with what is called Digimon World DS in the west, and that is where scanning comes in. There, you are building a team, not raising your partner. You still get Digimon’s web of digivolution paths, but you pick the path when you’re ready (and assuming you meet requirements). It’s not because you had the right weight and number of care mistakes at a certain time.
The most recent game was Digimon Survive, a visual novel with tactical battles. The kids have partner Digimon, but you can recruit others. And recruiting involves talking to them. They ask you 3 questions, you answer which changes their opinion of you, and then you either inadvertently give them a buff because they are mad or get to ask them for a favor because they like you. The favor could be an item or could be for them to join you, and if they join is a percentage chance which takes into account your character’s personality as it relates to their type. For example, I made harmonious decisions in mu first play through which meant I could more easily recruit data Digimon compared to virus or vaccine types. So that is very much in line with the genre’s roots.
So that's how Survive does it. Interdesting.
Calling the monsters in STEMA "subjects" could work. the word "subject" can refer to a "being," like a "test *subject,"* a conversation starter or switch of conversation, like if you change the *"subject"* of a conversation, or a topic, like the *"subjects"* you learn in school. Might make some weird implications though, so maybe not.
maybe "specimen" could do something similar? But that almost sounds too scientific...
@@writingman1089 i like that more than subjects because of the dehumanizing nature of it
Wait, "specimon" ??
@@aymonverheij1863well they aren't human so.
@@writingman1089 It's perfect I hope he goes with your idea!
This method of catching and summoning reminds me of Yo Kai watch. How they use the Yo Kai Medal to summon their friend
MegaTen actually did have a monster catching device: the COMP.
It’s where you would store all of your Demons.
You can't use your compendium to catch demons, but SMT V does have a monster catching device...
It's a jar from a side quest where you catch mothmen. I'm guessing it shrinks them.
The COMP in early megaten games and the mmo was more of a smartphone that was on your wrist. devil survivior 1 and 2 on DS used a DS as the COMP. Soul Hackers also had a COMP. You also needed the Demon Summoning Programme to talk to, fight and recruite demons. SMT 3 the MC becomes half-demon so dose not need one. both SMT 4 games use COMPs + demon summoning programmes. and yeah 5 you dont need one since well, part demon. The demons would basically get turned into Data stored on the COMP and, in some games, need a special resourse to summon and keep in the real world. @@slavishentity6705
@@slavishentity6705I mean, they are moth's
I think a lot of people might think that the specifics of how a "catching" mechanic works in a "creature collector/monster tamer" doesn't matter but it does because it is a part of the world building that is important to get right. At least within Pokemon, it has always been given a lot of care, even though the concept is so simple. The idea of using capsules to capture and store Pocket Monsters was very meaningful to Tajiri because it reflects a lot of his own personal experiences. For instance, every gashapon capsule held a toy/prize. He wanted players of Pokemon to feel like they had truly caught a prize. I imagine that he felt like the bugs he caught could be placed in the gashapon capsules he got from the arcades. There is a great depth of personal history to the pokeball that feels as if it carries through in the games. The pokeball is continually emphasized in the games through the use of visual graphics (on buildings, UI, etc.); the way that the player is introduced to essentially every single game (with an opening relating to how Pokemon are stored within pokeballs); and also through the in-game mechanics of purchasing pokeballs to collect pokemon and the challenge of having to whittle down a Pokemon's health in order to successfully capture it with a pokeball. These in-game experiences lead the player to have a meaningful connection to the pokeball. This is evidenced by the fact that for a long time people have avoided making any games similar to Pokemon, especially avoiding the use of ball-like devices or capsules (which is still true even now). This displays just how meaningful or how related the pokeball is to Pokemon. It truly is such an iconic part of Pokemon; it has become such a defining and integral part of the Pokemon franchise.
Now, it's true that "catching" in particular doesn't have to be an included part in a "creature collector/monster tamer" game. I have actually thought about this quite a lot. What defines this "genre"? What parts are the truly needed elements that define it as a genre rather than a specific style of game? I've asked myself this because there often is debate as to whether or not it is a genre, even so much so that Wikipedia also labels this collecting genre as a "Pokemon clone" (as seen at 1:05). Defining a very small list of basic, yet necessary elements might look like this:
1) You have to be able to collect, in one way or another, entities which are distinct from the player (a creature/monster/robot/fill in the blank) and be able to use them in some meaningful way (i.e. for battling, to reach new areas, to perform certain tasks, etc.).
2) You must be able to call upon or use these entities in some way when they are needed
3) These entities should be able to level up or become stronger in some way. Either physically increasing in strength and/or becoming more skilled at doing particular things. (This is the taming/raising/rearing aspect).
You can't have a "creature collector/monster tamer/monster catching" game without having creatures/monsters to collect, tame/raise/rear, and use in meaningful ways (often to accomplish tasks that the player couldn't have otherwise done on their own). These are key elements!!
Some elements found in Pokemon (and many other Pokemon-like games) may not be necessary for a game that falls within the "creature collector/monster tamer/monster catching" genre. Even some of the most notable elements of Pokemon, such as the inclusion of types, a progression system of changing forms (i.e. evolution), and other mechanics such as breeding, pokemon centers, gyms, and so on and so forth, may not be absolutely essential for a game of this genre. If there are similar elements in another game, they should bring something to the table of their own. They should have interesting twists on these concepts and include original concepts of their own or they will feel selfsame, copied, boring, and unoriginal. I think this why many of these games are thought of as being "Pokemon clones" and why not too many of these games have had much success in wedging their way onto the big stage with Pokemon. Although, I personally feel like Pokemon has been going downhill for quite a long while now. Long enough so, that many games like temtem and others are able to see some success, but still they limit themselves by not placing enough emphasis on the collection of mechanics which make up their game (as well as the creation of new mechanics). Essentially, my point here is that more emphasis on the specifics of how a mechanic works is better than less. At 0:16-0:30 and 7:34-7:50, it was mentioned that gameplay-wise how the capturing mechanic works in these games isn't really all that important (though you do seem to think it has enough merit world lore-wise to make this video about it). But I think that one cannot fully separate the world lore and gameplay of a game's most pivotal/crucial mechanics, such as the pokeball's ability to capture a Pokemon. I think that a lot of games that are similar to Pokemon might actually suffer in this area. More emphasis/more connection to the world = more immersion and a better experience.
Returning to the three rules I mentioned above, I would like to add that all three rules can essentially be summed up as a recruitment system (as is talked about in the video, with the mention of games such as the Shin Megami Tensei series). In its most abstract form what is required for a game of the "creature collector/monster tamer/monster catching" genre is some sort of recruitment system, which can be portrayed in many various ways, from pure recruitment all the way to catching and everything in between. I personally have always really loved the capturing of Pokemon because not only does it feel challenging and well-earned, but the trapping quality of a pokeball seems to aid so much in the immersion of the world. It has a certain charm to it that somehow makes the Pokemon themselves feel that much more connected to the world that they are a part of. The pokeball has this intrinsic feeling of realism to it, almost giving you a sense of how an encounter with a Pokemon in the real world could really be like (even despite the pokeball's advanced technological nature). I like how it was explained in the video (at 4:10) that Pocket Monsters "act more like wildlife that you can catch and use to battle for you". This is exactly what I'm talking about. Pokemon feel very connected to their world and I think a big part of this does come down to the capturing/trapping nature of the pokeball. It feels not unlike how you might trap an animal in a trap, such as using a net for bugs or fish, or a bear trap for bears and/or other large animals. In fact, at times, I've thought that that might be an interesting spin on a capturing mechanic for a game of this genre. Maybe the player could actually capture animals with more rustic or realistic means... The only problem comes down to the lack of a friendly and convenient way of storing them as is so beautifully portrayed by the pokeball. (The change in size of a Pokemon to fit the confines of a pokeball (or the the change in the volume of the space surrounding the Pokemon (I'm not sure which it is but I prefer the latter)) allows for the player to more realistically collect many more Pokemon than they could if they didn't have pokeballs and had to rely upon more conventional means).
All in all, I think it is important for these mechanics to be really well thought out. If they are not then why even care? If there is a key mechanic which an entire game revolves around or hinges upon being in place, it should be given a lot of care and really matter to the developers and the players.
Here's an idea: each time you beat a Stema species, you add more info to your flash card about them, which can give clues about how to recruit one, which would be more like the Undertale mercy-route puzzles. Effectively, grinding on one species is like studying the theory, then recruiting them is putting it into practice.
I'm seeing a temcard in the thumbnail... excited to see an analysis of Temtem's capture mechanics!
Never played Tem Tem before, but I like capture devices that are based on collectibles like cards and cassettes. There's a certain charm to them.
I never really gave much thought about the taming devices of the different "Monster Taming" genre until this video. Can't wait for it to premiere. Side note, but I think capturing devices that are based on collectibles such as cards or cassettes add more to the collectibility of the "Monster taming" genre. Tokusatsu shows like Kamen Rider Blade and Gotchard are great examples, using trading cards to capture and seal their monsters and let's not forget about Cassette Beasts with their cassette tapes. There's just a certain charm to those types of capture devices for me.
Kamen Rider was mentioned, I have been summoned to demand english dubs of Kamen Rider!
Imaginary Time concept: That sounds completely made up
Monsters using imaginary time to be in multiple places at once and answer the call of trainers to battle for them: Okay that makes sense.
I like that there could be a mon specifically around the mechanics of catching like a legendary pokemon (Hoopa?) that is all about the ball technology or a digimon that is all about friendship and just subliminally bonds with anyone in the world. I also like seeing your idea for a creature collector turning into a full project. Wouldn't mind seeing more pseudomon based on STEM but it's also more interesting to see full original creatures that could be in a personal game
Telefang actually had monsters give ya their phone numbers so that, if you needed reinforcements beside your one beastly buddy, you could just call them!
And they would take a few turns to arrive.
I believe there were areas with worse frequency, so calling in pals would actively be harder.
Yo-Kai Watch does a semi-similar thing with them giving you their medals to call them (only these are instantaneous).
Though the method of getting them was pretty much just like the early DQMs, good food and good luck...
Meanwhile, Beastieball, an upcoming 'Monster' game, has a unique requirements system where you need to make specific moves to please a monster and have the option to recruit them.
The reason for this system is that, in that game, you're only encouraged to go after the monsters you're interested in, so it's easier, yet more complex, yet very conscious.
I've never heard of Beastieball.
@@NitroIndigo It's a 'sports anime'-fuelled open world volleyball RPG by the peeps behind Wandersong and Chicory!
It had a successful Kickstarter campaign a while back, maybe you could check it out?
Based on the idea that each creature is just hangin out until a glob puddle shows up to send them through time, I think friendship bracelets with a watch motif could work. I like the idea that a bracelet is made using the parts you provide, and pieces that a stema of that type would like to add. For exampe, you bring the face of the watch/bracelet (which the fluid resides) and the stema would add things on top of the face or create the strap, resulting in a bracelet with flowers for a Dendro(?) type, a frigid bracelet for Cryo, and maybe a gunpowder or ever burning fire for Pyro
Would be interesting if there was a mechanic where the creature lost trust in the player and escaped the player's party. It could happen if they're being mistreated or get fainted often
Rather than escaping the party right away, how about just lowering the chance of it choosing to enter the portal and help the player? After 3 failed attempts to summon it in a row, the device "unlinks" and can be used for another one.
That could be interesting but losing monsters that faint a lot punishes players who are struggling with the game. Imagine if you lost your starter in Pokemon just because they were your first out and fainted more often, especially if they were your ace.
@@KStarPR It should go both ways. If you also win a lot with that mon, that would balance it out just fine.
what if instead of being essentially released, they could be boxed? you’d be able to go back to a pc equivalent and reclaim your mon after they calm down after a set time
@@cringee21Ideally even have the player do something, that will improve their chances in the future? Leveling up/more game info/easier paths... It should not happen to good players anyway.
The concept reminds me of yokai watch, you feed a yokai their favorite food, they warm up to you and give you their yokai medal, which means you can summon them to your location
Having the monster summons being part of your call phone reminds me of
Keitai Denjū Telefang, which an old Pokemon Diamond Hack is originally based on. I liked how it could take more than a turn for the monster to be summoned outside of their home area.
As someone who's actively building out their own monster tamer world, I love content like this! Love learning about the early history of the genre, and how well thought out your approach is for your "catcher". I got a good idea how I'm gonna go about mine for my world, and like you mentioned, it's important to have it tethered to your game's direction/theme. Would love to see more about your process on how you continue to whittle out and sharpen the core features of your game and build alongside you.
Keep it up!
Maybe you could do a “text book” thing. Like the book summons the stemas from where every they are. Kinda like a magical grimoire. The more steams you catch the more your text book fills out with the stema data entries.
If you're going for a more "call them to your side" approach, then you should look into how Yo-Kai Watch did it. Their medal and watch system could make for an interesting way of doing things, and you could take their befriendment approach as well.
I don’t think it was entirely unintentional to show those darker implications. That was the entire logic of Team Rocket in gen one. They reduced these creatures to their utility. I suspect gamefreak noticed the implications of the mechanic and instead of ignoring it they have it be the opinion of the bad guys
Great video! I really look forward to seeing where this project goes- the idea of actively using something like this to educate people is awesome. I also really, really look forward to seeing the start of the development process- good luck with that! I've been playing around with my own concept for a creature-taming/collection/capture game, and seeing your videos has been super inspiring and motivating
Wow someone actually acknowledged megami tensei, that alone deserves a like
11:08 this was such a sick editing idea
"going back" in the video to analyze what you've already previously shown is so smart
5:35 it’s kinda ironic that Pokémon, with all its emphasis on ‘Pokémon are your friends’ ended up stripping that idea from the monster tamer genera.
A cool catching system for these particular thingies would be study. Through items, combat or other mechanics your character would study the physical and mathematical concepts behind each creature, then recite it to them during a catching session and if you studied enough they would agree to let you call on them or to travel with you.
I love this genre
I've watched a big chunk of your videos, and besides your ideas and designs and stuff, your art is just very good. I love them!
I honestly like the idea of the party you have being the ones that join you personally, and any others beyond that are willing to help, but don't want to make it a crowd, so they register their DNA on your phone, and you can call in the ones registered in exchange for dismissing one of the ones joining you currently, or simply have them do something real quick and then hecc off, depending on your coding ability.
Yo-Kai Watch has that original befriending mechanic where they could give you Medallium, which functions like a Pokeball, after a battle. However, that’s not the only way you befriend Yo-Kai.
Sometimes, what happens in the story cause you to befriend them. For example, you held a cat Yo-Kai, Jibanyan, get a photo of his past owner from a gang of Roughraff. He then gives us his Medallium and becomes friends with the for the rest of the series.
I am leaving a bunch of stuff, but I don’t want this to run on and I think you get the gist.
GAIM TEIREY
game timothy
O7 to Mathpath from Matheory
I'm still waiting on the premiere
But god damn it i know this is going to be a banger
your idea for summoning or calling a stema is much like how u use denjuu in telefang, worth looking into for ideas
Another good monster game that has the idea of working with the monsters and not just catching it that I love is Monster Crown. The Crownies as the monsters go by want to be stronger and grow so you as the trainer show them a contract and they will ether accept it because you have shown them your power or they will scoff at it because they see you as weak. I love that idea and it works very well, even fighting the wild monster with one at a higher level can help your odds of recruiting them.
My first thought of how you would collect STEM monsters would be to understand them. Catching personified STEM concepts by using your brain to remember and understand them sounds like an intuitive way to do that. By the end, you could even earn your STEMA Master's Degree!
Man I really appreciate your thoughtful reflection on the genre, I've been feeling weird about the ethics of pokemon, and I think you addressed it super well! Thank you
it would be cute if the Stema gave you their phone number when you befriended and you call them to help you fight or perform other actions on the overwolrd kind of like how in Yokai Watch the yokai would give their medal.
I think it's great to be so diligent and look at how the genre you are integrating your game in was made.
I do actually know a story where they delve into very theoretical math, its in a vampire novel of all things lol. The story is called "Necroscope" by Brian Lumley. A man named Harry Keogh is able to talk to the dead and he meets August Möbius. It turns out Möbius never stopped working on mathematics after his death and even figured out ways to make math effect the physical world. By fully understanding certain equations Möbius and Harry are able to teleport anywhere.
My thought on it is that the capture part for your stem monsters should be a quiz minigame. That it leans into the friendship side where you have to prove to them master over the subject that the monster is about, and in doing so you show mastery over the monster. That the monster serves you due to the affection shown in learning about it.
You forgot Yokai Watch and how it also used the friend ship route but from feeding them their favorite food (although if you do beat ‘em they possibly they will join you.)
5:31 there is still some form of a connection they have to choose you as well battling and weakening them is how you prove your worth to them
Pokémon being your friends is still a big message of the Franchise
For my fanmade pokemon-like monster catcher we use a place that look like a farm but with a futuristic fence and barn and everytime you enter battle you call one of the protagonist's friends who works there and she calls the selected creature to come to the barn and to step into a teleporter so that they appear in your location for you to use them, this also eliminates the need for "pokemon centers" because you can also teleport yourself into the farm where you can go to a medical bay to heal the creatures, however you need to buy the different utensils and ingredients to heal the different types of damage a creature may have as they wear off or decrease in quantity over use.
Spectrobes, like someone mentioned with Fossil Fighters, has you digging up fossils of different Spectrobes in their baby forms.
Except after that you have to put them in an incubator and feed them gems that you also dug up for them. In Spectrobes 1 you simply had gems that would net you different tiers of exp. In the second game iirc it was both what type the genm corresponds to AND the tier in which they net you exp.
You could'nt take the babies out to battle, only use them to search for the fossils. It was until you met their evolution requirements in the incubator that you could take them with you into battle.
A while back, I thought of a concept for a monster-taking game inspired by JJBA and Persona. Basically, the STEMAs are ghosts and spirits you bind to yourself (maybe by etching their sigil onto something). Additionally, whatever STEMA is currently active will be able to call on aspects of the rest of your party to augment it. So if your main STEMA is a poltergeist thing that breathes fire, and your party includes a Superman tulpa, then you’d be able to do something special to give the poltergeist laser eyes or something
Wow that ideia of making call cards reminds me a lot of Slugterra and the way they use the slugs in there it could be worth checking out to get inspiration it looks rlly similar to me at least
So cool to see someone tackling a huge passion project like this.
Based on my own research, I have found a game with an earlier monster taming mechanic than megami tensei. In the roguelike "Hack", the precursor to nethack, which got it's 1.0 release in 1984, the player can get and use a "scroll of taming" which can force certain wild monsters to fight for you for the remainder of the floor. Pretty interesting!
My game that is based on both Pokémon and Zelda: During the battle, the character charges a Gauntlet, use this Gauntlet to punch the creature, the more charge the Gauntlet has, the stronger the punch is, if you defeat the creature with this punch, the creature transforms into a literal Weapon, you can use it as a Weapon (Zelda style) or revert it to its creature form (Pokémon style) any time
I think an underrated mechanic is just having them join you and follow you around. Considering the origin of the monster-collecting theme, and how fun it is to see your group trailing behind you (HeartGold comes to mind), I think them accompanying you on your adventure in a party is the best, most immersive choice.
I like the idea of the capture mechanic being called a Stem, or a stem cell, or a stem root or something. And maybe you copy the monsters dna in some sort of device or rod or chip and when you throw it out into battle it rapidly clones (or replicates or projects) the monster instead of outright capturing/summoning it? That way you could explain how you "captured" a legendary without taking the only legendary monster out of its habitat and ruining it's habitat and surrounding ecosystem? (Although your summoning mechanic could also explain this) Projecting the monster and its abilities could also make it feel less like you are causing these creatures harm when you use them for battle.
One thing I really like about pokemon's mechanic is how trainers are readily able to cast their monsters into battle since they are generally lined up on the hip. It makes trainer's feel cool and capable. Maybe your system, if you stick with the cards, could be a card holster on the hip? Or it could be a quiver of rods on the back? Simple ideas but I think if you develop your concept further you can come up with something really fun that make your characters feel badass! (might help to brainstorm what you want to call your inworld trainers too)
Anyway, cool video and very fun to think about!
Oh I've been waiting for this vid since we talked on the twitch stream! so cool!
I like the idea that to raise the chance of capture you have to either fight them, feed them, help them or befriend them based on their nature.
Not me getting lessons through a pokemon video this video explains more well than my teachers. I’m interested in what’s next
2:17 that artstyle
There's something that I want to add about Digimon and how the Taming works in the franchise.
As you mentioned with the scanning, it somehting from the Story games, and currently is explained through the Digimon Capture, which was a 'core' concept of the franchise to explain how hackers and programmers were capable to get a Digimon, thought has different types, one is literally capturing through programs like Ropes and Chains, and the other is the Scan.
The part of the rope to capture a Digimon is something that is shown in Tamers, which makes sense as Tamers was the first season to faithfully adapt many of the 'core' of Digimon, but the ropes or other tools are soemthing that is used sometimes, because Scanning is more efficient and you don't risk getting easily killed by a Digimon.
Okay, here's a maybe weird suggestion - you can't immediately catch a Stema when you first encounter it. You need to study them first - either spending turns analyzing them (kind of like what Casette Beasts does, where you try to scan the creature). For each stema you need to fill a mini-datasheet. Things like type, ability or ecological niche need to be filled in and you can either make guesses or scan the Stema to fill in another bit of the sheet. Once the sheet is full you can attempt to get the Stema's calling card as per normal catching conventions.
Shin Megami Tensei does something like this with figuring out demon temperatements. It makes you need to analyze the creature's behaviour and appearance to determine what responses to give.
Pokémon also has a multitude of hidden characteristics such as EV yields, egg groups and base stats that can be intuited through gameplay.
It would make the monster catching part of the game a fun minigame that helps you actually learn the monster's traits while sticking to the scientific theme.
"POKEMON HAS BALLS." killed me ahahah
another summoning idea is quantum entanglement - your device could only have enough power to entangle however many creatures you have in your party - this has the added benefit of not placing the creatures in true danger as the entangler will disconnect before any true harm could happen or something like that.
Calling the monster to join you in battle is also a mechanic in the Telefang series. Depending on how far away you are from your denjuu, it can take several turns before it shows up.
looked a bit into the Digimon systems. they are basically divided into three types:
scan and clone: you fight the monster multiple times until you get 100% or more. like in Digimon world Dusk/Dawn or Digimon story:Cyber Sleuth.
Raise: you have one (or two in Next order) Digimon period you can't "catch" more. it has a tamogachi like care system with feeding, training, pooping, it later dies too. like in Digimon world 1 or Digimon world next order
convince/catch: you give them a specific item they want or talk to them to convince them. like in Digimon world 2, Digimon survive.
the raise is the most personal cause you need to take care of it until you are strong enough to explore but if you get a mon you don't like you have to wait until they die to start over. the second has you memorize what items/responses based on type so it still feels personal but it feels random sometimes. the first is more convenient and you can form a connection cause it starts at level 1 but if it's a boss or a rare encounter you might need to grind for it. I personally like the raising type
I like the Tensai Megumi type and the Cassette Beasts. Cassette Beasts reminds me a lot of Ben10.
I am surprised, you didn't include Monster Rancher, which is a Monster Collector/Trainer that is pure Gacha, by the console reading the serial number of a CD or DVD you insert while in the "Resurrection Temple". Rather than the developers needing to know the number of every CD ever, the serial number triggers some algorythm that defines the summoned monster's type and stats. In the anime and manga, monsters were primarely gained by befrieinding them, and even monsters summoned in the Temples needed to be socially convinced (or bullied into submission) to join the party.
Another one I liked was Jade Cocoon, you capture much like in Pokemon, but can cross breed monsters and monster types for new variants and you can also step into the fight yourself instead of only letting the monster fight for you. You don't get your first monster granted by some old professor but must fight it in the wild on your own to capture.
A nice science based Monster Capture/Collector/Tamer game could be in the BattleBot genre (Giant Robot or Mini Robot, either would work), in which players capture Modules and Upgrades, instead of entire monsters. Defeat enough of one type of BattleBot, with some gacha randomness as to what parts loot-drop, and you can start using that Bot type as your own party member. More brutal since it needs destroying the enemy, not just weakening, but it is guarantied animal/demon/monster cruelty-free...unless the Bots develop sentience...
If you want the Player Character to have skin in the game, instead of Bots, make them Mecha (or Power Armour, depnding on the scale you want).
Happy candy catching!
i really like how zatch bell does it, each monster race picks their champion or representative fighter to compete in a battle royale.
i really like the idea that your monster can be a red one a black one, a young an adult one, a sassy one an evil one, i like the individuality, beside how good the race is, its how good that fighter is
example : grisor represents the imp race he is a fire type evil monster
In DinoPrehis you capture the mons by:
-kill certain amount of the mon
-it drops a card
-you can use a fossil to activate the card
-now you have a mon
a great take on creature collecting is Ooblets! it is a mix of two genres (creature collector/farming sim) and ties the two concepts together perfectly. When you win a dance battle (which is a really fun card game battling system) against wild ooblets, they will give you a seed which you then plant on your farm and it grows into a copy of that ooblet that you can dance battle with. your ooblets help out on the farm, level up, and have different cards for dance battles! all this to say, working your creature collecting mechanic into another system within your game really helps to flesh out the concept and realize your world. really interested in this project, keep up the good work! 😁
This was very educational for me. Thank you. Smashed that sub button.
It's stated that wild pokemon actually envy pokemon that have trainers because they get stronger way faster.
The trainer battle againts them to capture them because they wouldn't be partners with a trainer that is weaker than them.
And it has been very clearly shown in the anime that pokemon can disobey their trainers, leave them if they're treated badly and also if they think their trainer isn't strong enought to bring out their full potential. So it's definitely not a master-slave relationship.
One instance I remember in the games that proves this fact and there's an actual bond is the NPC that reads the footprints of Pokémon in gen 4 and claims to know what they are thinking. The text depends on the friendship level, the category of the Pokémon and whether they have footprints or not. At high level friendship, some of them start wondering how wild Pokémon see them:
- Level 4 (tough Pokémon with footprints): "Some wild Pokémon frown upon others for traveling with humans. They jeer that the caught Pokémon have "forgotten the wild." But that view is mistaken. They have just never met a Trainer who could be a great partner. A great partner like , in other words..."
- Level 5 (tough Pokémon with footprints): " is... A remarkable human and Trainer. That I can always perform the best any possibly can... I attribute that entirely to my partner . When we travel, I can see wild Pokémon eyeing us enviously..."
- Level 4 (scary Pokémon with footprints): "Not for a moment did I think I would be traveling with a human... If my friends were to see me now, they would be shocked. Or would they be envious of me...?"
And pokemon battles aren't like the equivalent of cock fights but rather like the equivalent of boxing matches with a coach and trainer dynamic.
With an added aspect of the japanese tradition of challenging family dojos specialized in martial arts for their battle awards. Which is usually a fight between the visitor and a member of the school, usually its leader or superior fighter chosen for the challenge, where the superiority of their respective fighting styles gets tested. With the one who ends victorious in the stand off receives its rivals battle awards and the losing losing honor/prestige. This is partially what inspired gym battles by the way. So it's definitely not cock fighting either.
I like how you used complex and imaginary numbers in this, even if I don't understand how that could apply to time. It'll be cool to see a less common side of math shown in a game like this! Also the summoning mechanic, the creatures having their own lives, is nice too.
I like this, keep it up!
I'd love to see creatures showing off the different types of "burns"
Chemical, thermal, electrical. It'd be a neat way to teach safety
Telefang(2000) uses the calling monsters on your phone mechanic.
Also, I wouldn't exactly call SMT mechanics befriending, a lot of conversation trees involve coercion and threats
I actually really like the notecards idea, and I feel like it could be used in a very engaging manner. What if the cards were somehow made of the goo, and to summon the chosen Stema you needed to write down what it is on the card? Said writing could also be notes on what the Stema is, or notes on what it represents. The catching mechanism could be based on learning from the Stema you are catching, being based on if your notes are correct, which would increase through extended observation (more fights, moves seen, turns in fight, or if you have caught it before). Said notes could then be how the Stema is then summoned, as once it is placed/thrown on the ground it forms the imaginary space portal between two places, and closes once the Stema goes back through (this could justify move equivalents to dragon tail and roar as pushing opposing Stema back though the portal). This would also get around the issue of fainting, as the Stema would just be deciding to leave if things get too hairy. If you wanted to get crazy with it, you could actually include individual models/animations for each notecard, or could repurpose the pages from whatever compendium the player draws from to put on the card.
Shadow of war has a interessing mechanic attached to the catch: your orcs can betray you, if you treat them bad, or show weakness, or some other thing they may turn on you and try to atack you
i like the idea of the catching abjects to be a device that look like flash cards and think its fantastic that the way there are being "caught" cames from studying a creature kinda how we develop some technology by studying animals
I have an idea of how to obtain your Monsters. It’s about science right? What if each Mon had to be synthesized in a lab or restive? From a number of base ingredients, using sets of equations. For instance, by fainting a number of physics Mons they drop the Molecules and Equations needed. Collect enough of the right type and you put them together in a testube and you get a base stage version of whatever Mon it is. That seems inteectual and also allows you to get more science in, by choosing the molecules, cells, and equations that comprise each Mon.
This makes the player into a mad scientist rather than a beast tamer- which is exactly what you need to set your game apart from all other catching games
I'm learning how to make a game because I had the idea of making a Monster Tamer where you literally TAME the monster. You can follow them and separate them from the pack to jump over them and tame it the same way you would do with a wild horse. You can also help some monsters trapped or in trouble to gain their confidence or just find some young and not so dangerous monster and feed them like a stray puppy to make them like you.
really well done video!
Monster Taming games/series have had pretty different ways to gain monsters. It's been interesting to see how indie developers change things up
I have a minor plan of potentially creating a Monster Catcher where you CAN beat up the monsters to catch them, but it results in depression, disobedience, and aggression in the monster. If you take the time to befriend them based on personality values, then it will come with you willingly and trust you.
Also, if they die in a wild encounter, too bad, they are not coming back. The entire inspiration for this was Festival of Champions, the Pokemon Fan work.
I LOVE THIS PROJECT SO MUCH
It's very smart of you to look at other creature collectors for your little project. Pokemon is good, but it's designed around the novelty of multiplayer, which gives it a good few quirks
i fr tought he was going to say: Hello internet, welcome to game theory
I love the idea about use the imaginary! It could be similar to how Lucy's keys work in Fairytale, but this would fix the problem of the chance of them being busy and not able to come. This is because the imaginary involves not just space but time and flat out dimension. You could also have a device that lets you perceive the mons because they are not from our plain of existence. And the relationship would be beneficial for the mob as well, they would basically be able to have time paused go fight and get stronger and go back where they left off. 😮love it😍
I remember this one game where you collect monster's phone numbers so you could call them to join a fight and the switch out takes time because some monsters gotta physically run to the fight instead of regular summoning/releasing from a device.
Honestly, my favourite monster catching game is monster hunter
You beat them up, trap them, and research them to learn how to beat them up more effectively (it tells you what parts are weak to what)
It's definitely a monster catcher game, but not a monster user game... I mean... you can use them... but not alive.
Now that I think about it, it might be one of the darkest but at the same time most "realistic" monster catcher games.
Calling the Monster to come to your location sounds like telefang keitai denju series (2 games made in the 90s that were sold in the west as "pokemon diamond). The mechanics were basically that the player had a phone and registered monster numbers and you could have one monster with you and call 2 more (iirc) and they literally walked/run since they had a base in the map so you needed to recruit monsters from all places.
Your idea for Stemas is kinda like Telefang, where you receive an e-monster's number, and can call them to your location, though travel time is a factor. You also get to call at least one of them to travel with you so you always have a mon by your side.
There's a monster 'taming' game called Monster Rancher as well-Where you gain monsters through 'Mystery Disks', but the game used actual, real life CDs to produce the monster, creating a level of randomness for the player. Recently, they re-released it for the Switch and now have a list of music cds, along side a 'randomize' button. In one game, you could even purchase pre-owned mystery disks with certain monsters, and the shop changes each day. I'm not sure if it'd be fully considered a 'taming' or 'catching' game, maybe more of a 'collector' game? but it was fairly similar to a lot of these monster taming/monster catching games.
I like your idea of making this mechanic meaningful and a part of worldbuilding :3
In my conseptual monster tamer, I’m making it that they don’t ALL like battling, some do but what I’m saying is they try to help and defend you. That’s why things are based off friendship.