So according to you the cheapest car on the market should be a Toyota Yaris Hybrid? Or any car that costs less should not have anything other than an outdated drivetrain with absolutely no electric parts added jsut bc you irrationally don't like that? In city traffic an engine that never shuts off and spends a lot of time just idling is horribly inefficient, that's simple physic, fact. In city driving IRL the old 1.2 engine needed ~40% ! more fuel, the ADAC test proves that: 4.8 vs 6.8l city consumption. Also in case you still havent't noticed after so many years, there are HUGE EU penalties, the lighter a car, the higher the penalties for each gram Co2, literally a single gram makes MILLIONS € difference for the manufacturer. If you don't know any of that don't make a stupid video. Nothing about an old drivetrain is better. Drive a 1.0 naturally aspirated engine without any hybrid parts, what is better about that? Also there is not a single car with a turbo engine at this price point on the market, comparing it to more expensive turbo engines is absurd. Literally every car in this category has a naturally aspirated base engine.
One more thing: Drive the Panda 1.2 at 120 km/h, look at the rpm at that speed. Then drive the 1.0 (it comes standard with a 6-speed) at 120 km/h and look at the rpm.
According to me, it should just have been a 1.0 without the hybrid stuff. It adds nothing. Would most likely have made the car even cheaper. The Toyota 1.0 3 cylinder in the Aygo/108/C8 has the same power and does it without the hybrid stuff. And at the same time they stopped offering the much better TwinAir engine. Sure, offer this thing to people but leave them the choice of spending more for more power and a better driving experience. But this way they are forcing this engine down everybody's throat who wants a Panda.
You are simply not the right customer for that engine. As far as I am concerned, I am very satisfied with it in my 500 Hybrid, after having had a Panda with the 1.2 FIRE, the engine the Firefly replaced. The 1.2 was quite good indeed but used more than a liter more than my 500 (4,5 liters in the summer, 5,1 liters in the winter). To get such economy with a car I paid less than 14.000 Euro last year is unique on the market and suffice to justify it. Of course you need to adapt your driving manners, but such cars aren't made for anything sporty, despite the 6 speed gearbox (whose tall gearing is there for good reasons). This manual gearbox is a big asset with its six speeds for the fuel economy. The mild hybrid "boost" only take place when you accelerate flat-out, and it is there to allow the lower size of the engine, that would be too weak at low revs without it. Actually, the best mileage is obtained on the motorway. When cruising about 110 km/h from Namur, Belgium, to Martigues (near Marseille), in the summer, I got 4,1 liter, and next year I aim for 3,9. (of course calculated by myself from one refill to the next one, not simply read on the bord computer gadget). There are consumers to whom such a thing matters more than torque and power.
Hello Pierre.. atm 78 years old I drive for economy .up to a maximum of 90 kmh. more than happy with the Fiat Panda Hybrid .. BUT it weaves like a drunken sailor on any straight level road and is especially tiring on long motorway journeys .I have investigated the constant steering wander and it is emanating from the Anti roll bar which has factory fitted support mounting bushes .the drop link mountings on the Mcpherson struts are under constant loading which overcomes the Caster angle stability . My friends, Lancia Musa .. an almost identical suspension set up to the Panda has the anti roll bar acting on the lower track control arm . not via a link to the strut. Fiat Portugal have arranged an inspection on the 10th of January 2023 at 9am . to hear of my concerns . My Hybrid Panda is a perfect runabout apart from the steering issues on level main roads .
But don't you wish that this sort of mild hybrid technology was made available back in the 2000s? They had electric concepts throughout the 90s for god's sake.
Meanwhile, I see about10 km per kWh of battery capacity in Summer in England (it's actually 6.3 miles per kWh in our antiquated figures) with my Zoe R110. That's an equivalent of about 1.2 litres per 100 km. And I can drive for more than 500 km (300+ miles) before I have to recharge the battery. Hybrids are not the way to go.
In Poland, the favorite engine was the 1.2 FIRE and it was bought massively by pizzerias, small distribution companies, plumbers, electricians, etc. as a Van due to its low maintenance, simplicity and reliability. It can easily drive 500,000 km on LPG, amazing numbers for such "shitty" and cheap cars. After changing the engine, the sale completely died out, the LPG version is no longer available and if you install LPG in "hybrid", you lose the warranty. This is the perfect story about how to destroy a bestseller with one wrong decision. I rode the 500 with this engine and that is really a big disappointment.
Fiat Panda with 1.2 LPG powertrain is actually avaiable new to buy in Poland. But it costs just under 70k PLN without any options, so people that own pizzerias, small businesses choose VW Caddy, Renault Kangoo, Toyota Proace City, Nissan Townstar and things like that. Dacia Dokker VAN with LPG installation is extremely popular now, although this model is discontinued unfortunately. Probably because it was new under 45k in 2020 and now nobody would buy it for 70k and over
I drive 1.2 litres, LPG model from 2012, so one of the first ones. As simple and straight forward the FIRE engine was, it wasn't the best of it category in therm of fuel consuption and acceleration. It was expected as it was an engine debuted in the 1980's. The way to fix it was either massively rehauling it or ditching and FIAT instead decided to replace it with the FireFly, an engine that was already tested in the suoth american market.
I own and drive the 2021 model year with LPG added. Zero problems after 30.000 km on LPG. They can not remove your warranty for the car only for the port injection system of the car for petrol which is a 350€ part.
I have this particular engine in my Panda, and I have owned it for three years and I am very happy with it. I have done 45000klms with no problems. It's very economical and for a town car it's nippy enough.
I have a car with a cloth interior and it's SO susceptible to water stains. You can't even open the door in a light rain without getting dots all over the door sill. Seats, same way. In winter it looks awful.
We had a rental car Suzuki Swift which was a manual 1.2 "DualJet" Mild Hybrid (naturally aspirated 4 cylinder with 80ish hp). It wasn't fast at all but we were impressed it averaged under 5l/100km, and we were driving it hard. Still, a turbocharger would have made it a lot nippier I think. Still a solid car though.
I drive this car everyday in Athens Greece. 30.000km in 1 year. Have added an LPG Kit from Europegas and I use AMS OIL and CASTROL Edge oil only. Zero problems with the car even on LPG at full speed and fully loaded.. The Fiat Panda Mild Hybrid replaced the 1,2 4cyl 61hp car. The twin air and the 1,4 liter diesel were replaced by the 1,2. The 1,2 got launched also with Factory LPG. They kept the twin air as CNG model as well for the cross model. Petronas Selenia oil is not Synthetic. The Petronas Synthium is and the other oils I mentioned
i drove it in the hilly parts of italy and the hybrid made it so comfortable motor braking into the corners and then having the little boost pulling out of the corners. u definitly feel it especially if u have to drive up steep hills
The Caddy is at the shop to have a few things done. It's not going to be cheap... And no, I haven't found a replacement for the GT-R - everything is just too expensive right now. 😢
It's not the car that's dumb, it's this video. Worst video you ever made by far. Unsubbed. The 1.0 engine was never meant to replace the turbo engine. Outside of markets with liquid gas the inefficient 1.2 engine needed to be replaced (bc of EU penalties), that's what the new 1.0 is, a replacement for the 1.2 petrol. Most people in this category obviously buy the least expensive base engine. Barely anyone who buys a Panda wants to pay more for more power. At the price of a turbo Panda a different model that is more upscale from the ground up makes much more sense anyways. The turbo engine was more expensive. Also it was less efficient, you are comparing absurd NEFZ numbers to much more realistic WLTP numbers, that makes zero sense. Complaining about performance and acceleration in a Panda is literally insane.
All hybrids are greenwashing. They're also overcomplicated and carry two power trains which will fail. I call them frankenkars because they are cobbled together from disparate parts. But this one is also cynical. It seems to me that Italian cities claim that they have low emissions zones, but that nobody actually observes the rules.
I had the luck to drive a 1.3 liter turbodiesel fiat panda this summer in stunning Crete , it was the first car that made me shift down up to first gear in country roads and almost reach readlines to shift up without hanging the engine. After all it made a nice 4.1lt /100km but it was times it felt like 30hp and wasnt good times 😕
I was thinking of switching to car from motorcycle. Cars are just too garbage, and made by corporations that are horrible, and cannot be trusted. I found the Panda when searching for 4x4s, but there's pretty much no information about this car on Fiat's website other than the "infotainment" nonsense it has (is it even a 4x4?). That pretty much sums-up car culture: it's a living room on wheels for people to relax, and have fun in. How the mechanics of the thing works, not to mention driving in a safe and respectful manner, seems not to matter. Yeah, I'll stick with my motorcycle.
I was looking at some of the cheaper new cars offered on the market. And of course I thought of old reliable, Fiat Panda 1.2 but then i go to dealer website and it only offers this fake hybrid 3 cylinder shit.
hi swiss car guy .. at 78 years old ex Donnington 1980 get champion .. I have bought a one year old Fiat Panda Hybrid .with 25000 km on the odometer . It is a lovely city / village run around .. BUT on a straight road with no camber and no wind . the steering is weird, the car refuses to settle into a relaxed motorway cruiser .. requiring constant tiring steering inputs . I have investigated the cause of this steering nervousness. the anti roll bar inputs small turning inputs via the drop links which are attached to the Mcpherson strut . the caster self centering action is negated and the car deviates from maintaining a relaxed passage .I see on the internet that other drivers have noticed this uncomfortable problem . Apart from this weird steering battle I am more than happy with the Panda .it is comfortable nippy and super economical 4.1 l /100km .nudging 70 UK mpg . A great city / village run about.richardwallinger atgeemailpointcom
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Mild hybrids, am I right? 🙄
So according to you the cheapest car on the market should be a Toyota Yaris Hybrid? Or any car that costs less should not have anything other than an outdated drivetrain with absolutely no electric parts added jsut bc you irrationally don't like that? In city traffic an engine that never shuts off and spends a lot of time just idling is horribly inefficient, that's simple physic, fact. In city driving IRL the old 1.2 engine needed ~40% ! more fuel, the ADAC test proves that: 4.8 vs 6.8l city consumption. Also in case you still havent't noticed after so many years, there are HUGE EU penalties, the lighter a car, the higher the penalties for each gram Co2, literally a single gram makes MILLIONS € difference for the manufacturer. If you don't know any of that don't make a stupid video. Nothing about an old drivetrain is better. Drive a 1.0 naturally aspirated engine without any hybrid parts, what is better about that?
Also there is not a single car with a turbo engine at this price point on the market, comparing it to more expensive turbo engines is absurd. Literally every car in this category has a naturally aspirated base engine.
One more thing: Drive the Panda 1.2 at 120 km/h, look at the rpm at that speed. Then drive the 1.0 (it comes standard with a 6-speed) at 120 km/h and look at the rpm.
If it's anything weaker than Honda's IMA from the 2000s I'd dare say "mild hybrids" are just start-stop with another name.
According to me, it should just have been a 1.0 without the hybrid stuff. It adds nothing. Would most likely have made the car even cheaper. The Toyota 1.0 3 cylinder in the Aygo/108/C8 has the same power and does it without the hybrid stuff. And at the same time they stopped offering the much better TwinAir engine.
Sure, offer this thing to people but leave them the choice of spending more for more power and a better driving experience. But this way they are forcing this engine down everybody's throat who wants a Panda.
It's the mildest of mild Hybrid.
Honestly, the technology could have been commonplace in the 1990s...
Wouldn't that not be a scandal of its own?
I drove Panda's with the 1.2 FIRE, 0.9 Twinair and now the 1.0 FIREFLY engine (hybrid) and I think it is briljant.
You are simply not the right customer for that engine. As far as I am concerned, I am very satisfied with it in my 500 Hybrid, after having had a Panda with the 1.2 FIRE, the engine the Firefly replaced. The 1.2 was quite good indeed but used more than a liter more than my 500 (4,5 liters in the summer, 5,1 liters in the winter). To get such economy with a car I paid less than 14.000 Euro last year is unique on the market and suffice to justify it. Of course you need to adapt your driving manners, but such cars aren't made for anything sporty, despite the 6 speed gearbox (whose tall gearing is there for good reasons). This manual gearbox is a big asset with its six speeds for the fuel economy. The mild hybrid "boost" only take place when you accelerate flat-out, and it is there to allow the lower size of the engine, that would be too weak at low revs without it. Actually, the best mileage is obtained on the motorway. When cruising about 110 km/h from Namur, Belgium, to Martigues (near Marseille), in the summer, I got 4,1 liter, and next year I aim for 3,9. (of course calculated by myself from one refill to the next one, not simply read on the bord computer gadget). There are consumers to whom such a thing matters more than torque and power.
Hello Pierre.. atm 78 years old I drive for economy .up to a maximum of 90 kmh. more than happy with the Fiat Panda Hybrid .. BUT it weaves like a drunken sailor on any straight level road and is especially tiring on long motorway journeys .I have investigated the constant steering wander and it is emanating from the Anti roll bar which has factory fitted support mounting bushes .the drop link mountings on the Mcpherson struts are under constant loading which overcomes the Caster angle stability . My friends, Lancia Musa .. an almost identical suspension set up to the Panda has the anti roll bar acting on the lower track control arm . not via a link to the strut. Fiat Portugal have arranged an inspection on the 10th of January 2023 at 9am . to hear of my concerns . My Hybrid Panda is a perfect runabout apart from the steering issues on level main roads .
@@richardwallinger1683 I have had two Pandas, a 1.3 Diesel fom 2005 and a 1.2 gasoline, 2015, and never encountered this problem.
But don't you wish that this sort of mild hybrid technology was made available back in the 2000s? They had electric concepts throughout the 90s for god's sake.
This comment right here. I don't give a fuck about torque or horsepower. Quite the opposite actually.
Meanwhile, I see about10 km per kWh of battery capacity in Summer in England (it's actually 6.3 miles per kWh in our antiquated figures) with my Zoe R110. That's an equivalent of about 1.2 litres per 100 km. And I can drive for more than 500 km (300+ miles) before I have to recharge the battery. Hybrids are not the way to go.
In Poland, the favorite engine was the 1.2 FIRE and it was bought massively by pizzerias, small distribution companies, plumbers, electricians, etc. as a Van due to its low maintenance, simplicity and reliability. It can easily drive 500,000 km on LPG, amazing numbers for such "shitty" and cheap cars. After changing the engine, the sale completely died out, the LPG version is no longer available and if you install LPG in "hybrid", you lose the warranty. This is the perfect story about how to destroy a bestseller with one wrong decision. I rode the 500 with this engine and that is really a big disappointment.
Elkan canned it. poisonning the well that satiated your thirst and could have done so even longer. how original... 🙄
Fiat Panda with 1.2 LPG powertrain is actually avaiable new to buy in Poland. But it costs just under 70k PLN without any options, so people that own pizzerias, small businesses choose VW Caddy, Renault Kangoo, Toyota Proace City, Nissan Townstar and things like that. Dacia Dokker VAN with LPG installation is extremely popular now, although this model is discontinued unfortunately. Probably because it was new under 45k in 2020 and now nobody would buy it for 70k and over
I drive 1.2 litres, LPG model from 2012, so one of the first ones. As simple and straight forward the FIRE engine was, it wasn't the best of it category in therm of fuel consuption and acceleration. It was expected as it was an engine debuted in the 1980's. The way to fix it was either massively rehauling it or ditching and FIAT instead decided to replace it with the FireFly, an engine that was already tested in the suoth american market.
I own and drive the 2021 model year with LPG added. Zero problems after 30.000 km on LPG. They can not remove your warranty for the car only for the port injection system of the car for petrol which is a 350€ part.
I have this particular engine in my Panda, and I have owned it for three years and I am very happy with it. I have done 45000klms with no problems. It's very economical and for a town car it's nippy enough.
For a moment I thought Mario got kidnapped and his organs harvested! Glad to see him alive and kicking!
I have a car with a cloth interior and it's SO susceptible to water stains. You can't even open the door in a light rain without getting dots all over the door sill. Seats, same way. In winter it looks awful.
Have you tried waterproofing the fabric with water repellent for textiles? Maybe that can help.
We had a rental car Suzuki Swift which was a manual 1.2 "DualJet" Mild Hybrid (naturally aspirated 4 cylinder with 80ish hp). It wasn't fast at all but we were impressed it averaged under 5l/100km, and we were driving it hard. Still, a turbocharger would have made it a lot nippier I think. Still a solid car though.
A beautiful example of how the author of the video shows his stupidity in 15 minutes.
Indeed.
He's ALIVE....ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!! Good to see you back again👍
I drive this car everyday in Athens Greece. 30.000km in 1 year. Have added an LPG Kit from Europegas and I use AMS OIL and CASTROL Edge oil only. Zero problems with the car even on LPG at full speed and fully loaded..
The Fiat Panda Mild Hybrid replaced the 1,2 4cyl 61hp car. The twin air and the 1,4 liter diesel were replaced by the 1,2. The 1,2 got launched also with Factory LPG. They kept the twin air as CNG model as well for the cross model.
Petronas Selenia oil is not Synthetic. The Petronas Synthium is and the other oils I mentioned
i drove it in the hilly parts of italy and the hybrid made it so comfortable motor braking into the corners and then having the little boost pulling out of the corners. u definitly feel it especially if u have to drive up steep hills
A TwinAir Hybrid was in the works back in 2011.
It's just shameful... those were axed by executive decisions.
Great review. Honest and professional. Thank you!
Mario is back! I missed you 😊
How is the Caddy?
Do you have a replacement for the GTR?
The Caddy is at the shop to have a few things done. It's not going to be cheap... And no, I haven't found a replacement for the GT-R - everything is just too expensive right now. 😢
It's not the car that's dumb, it's this video. Worst video you ever made by far. Unsubbed. The 1.0 engine was never meant to replace the turbo engine. Outside of markets with liquid gas the inefficient 1.2 engine needed to be replaced (bc of EU penalties), that's what the new 1.0 is, a replacement for the 1.2 petrol. Most people in this category obviously buy the least expensive base engine. Barely anyone who buys a Panda wants to pay more for more power. At the price of a turbo Panda a different model that is more upscale from the ground up makes much more sense anyways. The turbo engine was more expensive. Also it was less efficient, you are comparing absurd NEFZ numbers to much more realistic WLTP numbers, that makes zero sense. Complaining about performance and acceleration in a Panda is literally insane.
Bye!
@@swisscarguy cope
All hybrids are greenwashing. They're also overcomplicated and carry two power trains which will fail. I call them frankenkars because they are cobbled together from disparate parts. But this one is also cynical. It seems to me that Italian cities claim that they have low emissions zones, but that nobody actually observes the rules.
I had the luck to drive a 1.3 liter turbodiesel fiat panda this summer in stunning Crete , it was the first car that made me shift down up to first gear in country roads and almost reach readlines to shift up without hanging the engine. After all it made a nice 4.1lt /100km but it was times it felt like 30hp and wasnt good times 😕
İt must have some problems in engine. In Turkish market 1.3 turbo diesel powered fiat's are 1st choice in budget cars. We have quite up hill roads 🤔
it was more like had wrong gearing but anyway it was a reantal car , so of course it had a troubled record.
I think that you have forgotten its price
Très bonne voiture pour les trajets courts❤ et surtout en ville.❤
I was thinking of switching to car from motorcycle. Cars are just too garbage, and made by corporations that are horrible, and cannot be trusted. I found the Panda when searching for 4x4s, but there's pretty much no information about this car on Fiat's website other than the "infotainment" nonsense it has (is it even a 4x4?). That pretty much sums-up car culture: it's a living room on wheels for people to relax, and have fun in. How the mechanics of the thing works, not to mention driving in a safe and respectful manner, seems not to matter. Yeah, I'll stick with my motorcycle.
Excellent Car very good on gas in the city or high and a cute car . The next car will be a panda automatic . Have a Good day 12/28/2022yr USA
swiss panda time? reminds me of Franco Sbarro one with the Thema 308 engine iirc... 😋
I honestly despise this car max it can go is 120km per hour and with s little help from the road
I was looking at some of the cheaper new cars offered on the market. And of course I thought of old reliable, Fiat Panda 1.2 but then i go to dealer website and it only offers this fake hybrid 3 cylinder shit.
hi swiss car guy .. at 78 years old ex Donnington 1980 get champion .. I have bought a one year old Fiat Panda Hybrid .with 25000 km on the odometer . It is a lovely city / village run around .. BUT on a straight road with no camber and no wind . the steering is weird, the car refuses to settle into a relaxed motorway cruiser .. requiring constant tiring steering inputs . I have investigated the cause of this steering nervousness. the anti roll bar inputs small turning inputs via the drop links which are attached to the Mcpherson strut . the caster self centering action is negated and the car deviates from maintaining a relaxed passage .I see on the internet that other drivers have noticed this uncomfortable problem . Apart from this weird steering battle I am more than happy with the Panda .it is comfortable nippy and super economical 4.1 l /100km .nudging 70 UK mpg . A great city / village run about.richardwallinger atgeemailpointcom
Check your tire pressures and alignment of the wheels. Bad steering is not normal for this vehicle...