Here's Why Jinger Duggar Vuolo Chose NOT to Deconstruct Her Faith
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- Опубликовано: 22 мар 2023
- Jinger Duggar Vuolo grew up in the spotlight on the popular television show, "19 Kids and Counting." As she grew into adulthood, she began to question the the strict, legalistic, and cult-like teachings of Bill Gothard in which her family was steeped. Instead of deconstructing her faith, Jinger took the difficult path of untangling truth from false teaching, and faith from fear. She joins the podcast to share her story and some encouraging advice for others who might be questioning and recovering from false and harmful teachings. Melissa Dougherty joins as co-host!
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I used to follow Bill Gothard. I also used to get so aggravated that I was following to a T and we were still poor and not very influential. I think it's part of what eventually led me into progressive Christianity. This channel has been influential in bringing me to historical Christianity.
So glad that this channel has helped you find the true Christianity and not the false gospels that promise to meet our selfish desires but don’t actually lead to a real, honest, submitted and trusting relationship in Christ.
Progressive Christianity? Can you explain that?
@@lauraminton7935 Alisa does just that. Go back thru her videos!
No birth control (large families) and women unable to work leads to poverty
@@Dulcimertunes I've wondered about the financial pressure that having such a large family may have put on the Duggar parents to sign up for the TLC deal and put their children's lives on TV without them being able to consent to that. To them not using birth control and having as large a family as possible was morally right and not doing that would be wrong, but needing to be able to pay to support such a large family led to other moral compromises. The money also seems to be behind some of the divisions that manifested within the family too -- between the parents getting paid and controlling it all and the children not being compensated for their part.
It was great to be a part of this interview! And my apologies everyone, it seems I had a sound delay on my end. Nonetheless, glad that Jinger is able to tell her story and it's helping so many people see who Jesus is.
This was great.
Things I want to highlight from the interview:
•Legalism takes away from the sovereignty of God and away from studying the Bible.
•Tradition is fine unless it goes against the Bible or you legalize it
•Test what anyone says to the Bible
•Read full context of the Bible
Great summary
Well said!
Great list! On a side note, I would add, the bible can be understood better when we study the Jewish roots. It also keeps teachers and leaders from leading us astray.
What’s so encouraging about Jinger’s story is that she just didn’t walk away from the Lord. So many people that grow up in false teachings never come to faith in the True Jesus!
Love the disentangling rather than deconstructing! It fits so well with many of us wrestle with and walk through.
One thing I've said, coming out of religious abuse, was it wasn't _God_ who abused me, it was _man_ using God as a justification.
Jinger has grown into a thoughtful and gracious woman. A great interview
I grew up in a legalistic church. Many of my peers went wildly into the world. I thank God for good Godly parents who taught us to never lift man above God. All of us eventually came out, but it has taken many years to “disentangle”. At 51, I am still on that journey, but I can always fall back on his grace. Praise the Lord for what He has done!
So I see our adversary behind the teachings she grew up in. They take truths and twist them into something God never intended them to be. I'm so impressed with this young lady. Her grasp of the true gospel and her love for Jesus is beautiful
@Jessica IBLP?
I have been a Christian for almost 45 yrs and never heard of Bill Gothard until today. I do however, understand embracing false teaching though because I used to listen to and embrace Kenneth Copeland's teachings until I got a better understanding of God's Word. I got rid of all of his tapes and books over 20 yrs ago. It's SUPER important (like Jinger says) to be a Berean and study God's Word for ourselves and then we can judge whether or not a message lines up with the Word. That is why I like to listen to Alisa, Melissa and other great Christian apologists who defend God's Word so well!
So glad you were finally able to break free from Kenneth Copeland’s deception. I once watched him mesmerize and entire indoor arena full of people in Hawaii. I was incredibly uncomfortable, knowing what he was teaching could not be true, and watching him make blatant (and false) prophesies, but when I looked around, I saw people crying and cheering and completely hypnotized by him. His whole sermon, based on a half a verse, literally was telling people “if you want to be a Doctor, you don’t need to go to Medical school! You already have all of the knowledge inside of you!” I knew that had to be a complete and total distortion of Scripture. The biggest shock to me was when I went home and looked up the verse he was using to base an entire false teaching on (“you have all of the knowledge of the Holy Spirit…”), I found out that the full context of that verse was about spotting false teachers. The audacity to base a false teaching on a passage all about false teachers was disgusting to me. But, sadly, the majority of people in that arena couldn’t (or wouldn’t) see it.
Praise God! He is faithful! He is trustworthy! I'm so encouraged by Jinger's testimony!
God bless Jinger. May her whole family be saved.
Praise God she’s saved! I was worried she deconstructed completely. I’m so happy for her!
You don't have to be in a hyper "legalistic" church to be abused. I grew up in a very middle of the road church. Never was forced to wear dresses all the time or told I could never cut my hair.
The church eventually went liberal but many including me were abused. I think many times evangelical churches become abusive when they care more about bringing people in (no matter their character) then demonize the wounded by calling them names.
Also, pastors can be abused too.
I watched this on Melissa's RUclips channel. You both did an awesome job interviewing Jinger without all the drama that other channels used. I also commend Jinger for being so clear on what the Gospel is and how tangled up her beliefs were. I truly believe that most of us that call ourselves Christians have at one time or another been entangled because of the lack of expository preaching. I recently joined a church where I'm listening to the Bible been preached expositionally every Sunday and it's such a breath of fresh air.
I read Jinger and her husband's first book and I truly believe God used her husband to help her clear out the snares and lies used by the enemy to entangle her. Praise the Lord! He's faithful! Her voice and story is an important one to hear. 👏👏👏
I grew up in a deeply conservative Mennonite family. So many of these same lies about works and legalism are true of the community I grew up in. Praise god he has brought sound biblical teachers into my life like the two of you who have helped me untangle lies from truth. I am now a confident, passionate Christian because my faith means something more than what I do now.
can you elaborate on the works/legalism? the most faithful Christians i know are conservative Mennonites
@@janeEyreAddict well their lifestyle is in my opinion a god to them. If you want to be included in their group you must follow all the lifestyle codes and dress codes. To make your own choices on these things means you will be excommunicated. My grandpa told me I would go to hell because I didn’t wear the head covering. They are moral people and many love the lord. But being a faithful Christian means being faithful to Christ and Christ did not write a dress code or give specific lifestyle commands (like no radio, only black cars, women must wear hose, never cut their hair, have as many children as physically possible) connected to salvation. A friend of mine was called before the Mennonite church leaders because her sleeves had too large of ruffles and she was leading men into temptation by not wearing hose when she played volleyball at school. These are the sorts of legalistic things that have become god to the mennonites.
@@everbejoyful thanks for the reply! The bible does in fact give us a "dress code" as well as a "lifestyle" command for christians but I agree in that simply saying "you're going to hell if you don't do so and so" is not the most effective preaching.
@@janeEyreAddict the Bible does not give the mennonites lifestyle and dress code. It gives us guidelines that are open to interpretation. The mennonites have decided that God approved their particular interpretation by making it the standards by which they judge a persons salvation. If someone does not agree to their standard they are excommunicated from membership and fellowship with the body of believers. So no, the Bible doesn’t give those guidelines but they treat it as Bible authority We are told to dress modestly. We are not told to wear floor length dresses in pastel colors with no ruffles or buttons or patterns with necklines up to our collarbones and elbow length sleeves. Those are simply men’s interpretation and should be treated as such. In the Mennonite community they are not
Just listened. What a beautiful story of allowing God to lead us, even in the hard stuff. Praise God her heart truly desired to find Him and that “if you seek Him, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart.” Culture says the opposite, and Satan is tricky, but God is stronger. Praise God for the transparent story of how God keeps hold of us, using all the people and circumstances throughout our lives. 🙌🏻 Keep at it, He’s worth it.
I was part of the UPC church, and they had a lot of the same rules/regulations as far as what women could and couldn’t wear… I know, for me, it caused a lot of pride, because I would look at other people that were not dressed according to the “holiness” standards, and I would look down on them. I’m so grateful God brought me out and showed me the truth. Because I know a lot of people that leave those churches and leave God all together. Great interview
What a beautiful conversation! I've followed all three of you for years and have seen a lot of Jinger's other interviews on her book. You two really did an excellent job diving deeper into her journey that it felt like watching friends talk about something very personal. It is very touching and eye opening! Thank you!
I'd really love to know if her family has been affected by her journey to truth, have they been receptive to it? Or are they so brainwashed they cannot even fathom that they believed lies for so long? I pray for their freedom from the cult as well.
I was wondering the same thing.
Her one sister jill has pretty much cut ties with her parents and isnt part of the iblp now. Her sister jessa says she believes in and uses birth control which is a departure from iblp teachings. Many are still in it though since many are still underage, but even adult siblings havent departed from it.
@@daughter_of_yeshua Yeah I did know about Jill a long time ago, and I suspected Jessa would be next. The one I feel the most empathy for is the older girl who still lives at home as far as I know. She is totally parentified. Oh and also Josh's wife who apparently refuses to leave him despite horrific child pornography found on his work computer.
@@inchristalone25 i feel most sorry for anna. How awful for her to be married to and have 7 children with a pedophile. She is still very much indoctrinated into iblp teachings. She and her children need lots of prayer. I sincerely hope nothing bad happened to them through josh.
This sounds like the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church...my son and his family are messed up after leaving that. Their first pastor was Stephen Anderson a false teacher and self proclaimed pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Phoenix az. A very legalistic church. Now they have decided not to go to ANY church. My heart breaks every day for them.
Maybe you can suggest they watch a video like this
@@blairberry3555 Thank you, I will try. They consider me to be unsaved because I am reformed and went to a PCA seminary. I pray for them all the time. Sometimes the closer people are to us the harder they are to reach. I just believe that no one is beyond God's reach
@@debchase3330 yeah that Steven Anderson fella is very legalistic and hateful. Stay far away from him
@@kevinevans8892 Steven Anderson needs prayer and God's divine intervention more than anything. Not only is he teaching heresies against the Word of God, he is leading people to destruction with false teaching. It brings me to tears thinking of it. However, God is the giver of life and His Spirit I pray will get a holding of that man before it's too late.
Alisa's channel has helped me so much in my understanding of the many pitfalls of my Christian walk and influence with others.
God never stops pursuing them. Give them lots of space, no condemnation and let the Holy Spirit speak to them. It may take decades to recover.
Alisa, I grew up listening to your music. My husband and I have been going through our own “disentangling”, and it’s been emotionally challenging, and scary. I still listen to Zoegirl when I feel vulnerable. I found your podcast, and it couldn’t have been better timing in relevance and urgency. God works in mysterious and wonderful ways.
I feel like a fly on the wall being a man, lol. Intelligent, beautiful, classy, spiritual, elegant women - what an encouragement! Classic Alisa, great guests with compassion and stuff to learn. One of the best shows on utube. Terrific dialogue and discussion. I think a lot of us want to obey the Lord, and yet see a fine line with legalism from even the most sincere teachers. So much craziness out there and so many now days seem to want to reduce the gospel and even Jesus Himself into some get rich quick scheme or even far worse. Great stuff here, i often find quality on Alisa's utube show. Her gentleness and just elegance is inspiring. Thanks so much! Much love from California.
So beautiful house ginger was just keep searching for answers in. God just helped her to just no more for the truth and just digging into scriptures. God bless you ladies in all of your ministries.
Thank you Melissa Dougherty and Alisa Childers for interviewing Jinjer Duggar Vuolo on this particular subject! I just bought her book, and being an audiobook reader, really appreciated that I could immediately buy, download and listen. I am looking forward to disentangling the remnants I have of many many Bill Gothard teachings.
What a beautiful story of the truth of Jesus' Redemption. A well spoken young woman. I'm proud of her.
I was a part of a cult at 17 yrs for 17 yrs. It was legalistic overall, but specifically with evangelism and bible reading/prayer. I guess it could have been worse. We were required to spend 1 hr with God daily. Even reading the Bible daily it was difficult to decifer the legalism in the church.
I am convicted from this conversation in regards to my parenting with my teens. I wonder if I have too many rules for my kids. I personally love rules. It gives me comfort and security. But now I can see that it can limit my kids from the Holy Spirit working within them and them learning to run to God for answers.
My kids are in their late twenties, early thirties. My teens biggest beef is we didn’t let them date. We essentially followed Josh Harris book. We definitely were not legalistic at all. We didn’t go to church. But, the takeaway now is especially for girls, I would let them date!! My eldest girls 34, 33 have had horrific experiences with men. Had they been able to learn to sort out who is a douche and all the tricks boys play on girls it would have been better to have it happen at 15-19 where we could help them with the aftermath. My eldest followed Josh’s ideals to the minute. By her late 20s mr. Right did dot appear. Church kids marry young to have sex. There were none left in her church her age. She tried dating apps and got so burned by men. She still held values of purity and they took advantage of her naivety. . Men used her, emotionally abused her. She is off men completely now. Going for her degree, she’s lonely and her clock is ticking. My second daughter, married a narcissist who DV her. We are into two years of divorce proceedings, trials, and trying to protect her 4 year old whom he held a pillow over her face. My daughter was naive, she thought God would change this guy. And the worst part? As a parent you have no control or say as they are adults. Let kids make mistakes when they are young. Let them learn through experience. My two boys did better and have lovely wives. But this misconception for women is devastating.
L
Just watched this on Malissa’s channel but want to support both so I’m watching it here again.
Love both of these amazing women of God’s channels.
I read the book and listened to so many of her interviews. I pray that the people who need to get out of legalism will be blessed to hear her testimony.
I attended several Bill Gothard seminars with my family and other families back in the 80s. These seminars were all day long and lasted for a week. I just remember feeling so defeated after that week was over but could never put my finger on why.
While we attended as a family, we weren’t the perfect picture that Gothard taught we should be to live and flourish under God’s protection. My father was not the spiritual leader that Gothard described. Therefore, your left with the conclusion that your life will never be all it could be, if you only followed God’s plan.
I really appreciate the focus on finding out who Jesus really is by being in God’s Word. I also agree that some people have never been transformed by a personal relationship with Jesus.
Thanks for posting
I just watched the newly released documentary on BH/IBLP & was so saddened to see the amount of IBLP'ers that deconstructed...
Thank you for interviewing Jinger-ordering her book!
Such a great conversation! ❤️
Was really hoping for an interview with Jinger! This was great
My problem is the inability for single females to leave cults like the IBLP and do so without their father, brother, husband, uncle, grandfather accompanying them. I believe that once someone turns 18 that they should be able to freely leave their parental home as a single. Men need to take responsibility for their own conduct.
Absolutely love this. So thankful for you three ladies💖
Great interview
Thank you very much for this beautiful testimony. Very encouraging ❤🙏
Ever since I realized how the Bible is all about relationship with God it's changed everything. Sin isn't moral imperfection, it's broken relationship with God. With this view every false teaching is easily seen.
I am excited to listen to this. Will do tomorrow.
I attended the BG seminars called Basic Youth Institute in the 70. They gave you big notebooks with all of his principals. It was a big picture of Christianity at a living formulated level. However, it was also a retelling of biblical principles from Bill G’s point of view which was authoritarianism and legalism, black and white. Recently, I have met several people who went on with BG and have real problems as if it was a cult.
It’s so strange. My Granny always wore her hair up and only wore dresses and skirts and I never realized until I was an adult that she was mentally trapped in a legalistic denomination. My Dad didn’t involve us in church growing up much because of the spiritual abuse that took place when he was growing up, but even now he doesn’t understand that it was all an abusive hyper-charismatic church. He speaks fondly of the churches he attended and my grandfather, who were all toxic and theologically unsound, and in some areas, heretical.
Wearing dresses and skirts is not necessarily legalistic. Being modest can look different for different people, but for some, modesty = dresses and skirts. There's nothing wrong with that. If dresses/skirts = legalism, then you are in danger of judging a woman who is wearing a dress. Let us who know Christ praise our sisters in the Lord who are honoring Christ with their bodies.
He didn’t involve you in church bc of the abuse yet spoke fondly of church? What?
@@carolberubee I agree. My grandma always wore long dresses, every single day. One time we went to Disneyland and she was wearing pants! It turns out dresses were just much more comfortable to her but just not modest or practical at an amusement park. It wasn't legalism, but her personal preference.
Thank you
I also have to say in Jinger’s scenario she had a husband who was not brought up Gothard, and in seminary! She had a loving teacher by her side who could in essence stand at the back of her head and take out the gum from her hair she could not see. Many of us and those in Gothard do not have that luxury. We can walk completely away with just faith as small as a mustard seed and God will be faithful to find us and call us back. I grew up in a situation in church far more devastating and horrific and I essentially had one thread to hang on to. Centimetre by centimetre I was down back in and rewound closer to God by the Holy Spirit. Not even by my own accord. So while Jinger’s story worked for her, saying flat out deconstruction doesn’t work and actually calling out Josh Harris isn’t fair.
It’s been 26 years since I’ve been in a church and I have no intentions of going back. I’m not rebellious. It’s not safe for me to be in that setting. It actually gives me flashbacks. But me alone, pecking away at scripture and finding good grounded biblical scholars via the Holy Spirits direction has given me a basis of reconstruction. Everyone has a different road . Many have been so wounded that doing it her way isn’t going to work and the Holy Spirit knows it. She is boxing in the Holy Spirit and how he works with individuals and that is the issue I take with her . It took me Years to be brave enough to open a Bible and years to actually read something after I opened it. The verses were so scary because all my mind could do was hear an abusers word in my head.
Yes! I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s!!! The Bill Gothard Character Qualities Game! We had that!!!
Great video
Thank you Jinger; Thank You Jesus! ❤
“How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the Good News” Jinger is
a beautiful example of a true
follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God is blessing her ministry to others.
Oh my, I went to Bill Gothard seminars!!! Wow it’s amazing what you find out after the fact.
I also like the word “disentangling” instead of “deconstruction.” There is a healthy version of questioning what one has been taught to believe and an unhealthy version. The healthy version is going back to the Scriptures and then comparing what we were taught with what the Bible actually teaches. I have gone through that many, many times, and while uncomfortable at first, my faith grew by leaps and bounds afterwards. The unhealthy version is to focus on what was wrong with what we were taught, and then throwing that out along with everything we were also taught that was right, and systematically undermining one’s faith in the Bible first, then the Biblical Jesus, and ultimately, Christianity itself.
Beautiful!! 😍
Good stuff
I've been watching all her interviews 😅❤
I just came to know you were part of Zoe girl ! I grew up listening to you and still do 💕
My family participated in Gothard's organization and it was the icing on the cake to the destruction of our family. God is working to rebuild relationships, but my parents are still refusing to acknowledge the depth of abuse and manipulation that took place. I have been so grateful to God for strengthening and restoring my faith in Him as He truly is and not as He was portrayed to me in this fear-based cult.
@AlisaChilders
My family was in a different cult for many years. A former close friend of ours also left the group and had a family member that married into the Duggar family. I wish you would do a show on the ICOC and Kip Mckean. Our lives have been forever scarred from a lot of the things we went through in that group. They have been in the news lately a lot and have several lawsuits against them now.
Would love a video on the ICOC.
I cannot speak for everyone, but as someone who has deconstructed my past religion, I want to say that we do not all want people to stop being Christians. I think it is a beautiful thing when someone is able to build a belief that is beneficial to their life and to their soul. I am so happy for Jinger that she has found that💗
I'm really curious about her husband's faith background. Seems like he was raised with a solid biblical understanding.
Galatians 5:1 came to mind immediately!! Praising God that Jinger and others are figuring this out!!
I went to his conference in the 80’s and was implementing some of what I learned while raising my daughter. Fortunately I did not go total legalism. My parents weren’t real strict we had a lot of freedom and they had a lot less rebellion. I was strict in a lot of areas with my daughter …and had a lot of rebellion. The law tends to bring that out.
Cool!
Love the last about 3 minutes! Jesus is the universal answer!! You can’t say that about really anything else! ❤❤❤
I see particular folks in the comments here falsely believing that ALL Christians obey God's Biblical commandments to one extent or the other out of fear of punishment despite the work of the cross without consideration that there are actually those of us who desire to obey simply out of love for a gracious and merciful God who chooses to love us first.
I grew up in a Bill Gothard home as well….. this is so good! Bill Gothard himself said one thing and did another…..
He is an immoral hypocrite
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE speak on how dangerous Calvinism is that she's in now.
To one legalism to another. So sad. 😞
In light of the truth in these verses, why do people think that fear of God is a virtue when other fear should be escaped from?
"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
Jinger said that she escaped from the idea that God was out to get her to know that God is a loving God.
So why do people think Jesus actually said this:
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
I interpret fear as respect
@@Dulcimertunes So you would respect a father who would kill the body and soul of a child if in one lifetime he or she didn't admit that Christ died for his sins and is his lord and savior? Or what would it take to be saved by such a father before he destroyed you?
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
I did not get to watch Punky Brewster that much because in the mid 80s my parents went to church whenever the doors were open which obviously meant Sunday Evening Services as well.
What a good word.... untangling....so much words...but where does it lead...only the Bible can tell you the way to our loving Father✝️💟🙏
I remember going to the Bill Gothard seminars and he would teach that our life is like a diamond that God is chipping away and making us into a big beautiful diamond........... But if we would sin God could still forgive us but we would be a smaller diamond..... I think he was trying to say that if we keep on sining God would still forgive us but our life would never again be as effective for God compared to what it could have been if we didn't sin much..
What an awful, unbilical way of controlling people.
I've become a fan.
Takeaways from deconstruction clip.
One point she has not made in this interview that should have made everybody question it from the beginning was why Bill Gothard who was never married was offering Council and success advice to married people and their children when he had none of those things. There's a reason why the Bible says a pastor should be the husband of one wife able to lead his children well. And 2 Corinthians 1 tells us we counsel others based on the way God has counselled us. He was not qualified to be the counselor of anyone married with children because he did not know what he was talking about from what God had taught Bill through his marriage and his children.
I was made to attend one of these training seminars in one of the jobs that I had so I know fully everything that he teaches and that was my first question how a man who was not married could have that kind of authority over so many married people.
Thoughts that are biblically accurate from her comments:
Don't throw it all away. Turning from one man made construct to another man made construct is the mantra of
Rather than her picture of putty in the hair. I would use cleaning dirt out of a wound. It's pointless to waste time on putty but massively important to take the time to clean a real wound! And this is what going on a need to heal a huge festering wound.
Compare Scripture with Scripture.
Understand context.
Run from man's views to the Word of God rather than running to other men's views away from God.
Reject the version of god that's man-made and find the true God in His Word.
It's never deconstructing your faith. it's disentangling from the errors that are man made and then restructuring your faith from the Bible.
"Looking for answers not exits."- Melissa Dougherty
Never focus on a man more than the Word of God as your source of truth.
Start with the question" do you love Jesus?" Then what does the Bible teach me about who He is?
It's not about throwing Everything off.
It's Not cherry picking verses.
When you face your faith crisis. You recognize what's really in your heart.
The Heart has to be transformed by the gospel. The bottom line is your true heart will be revealed in how you respond to the process of challenging your idea of truth against God's Word. This is never about your truth this is about Bible truth that withstands any man's idea of Truth..
Those whose hearts have been genuinely changed by the gospel will run to the Bible for truth not run away from it.
Love her comment about how easy it is to grab a formula and think that's going to be the insta proof that nobody's going to rebel. It's so blind to forget that we are flesh and we need the holy spirit's help every moment of every day to live right. No man-made formula guarantees anything. Moment by moment relationship with God through His word and responding to the Holy Spirit's guidance or conviction is what guarantees success.
Pattern in high control religions.
"do this for success."
Spiritual gas lighting. Health n wealth gospel.
"The thing that I feared came upon me." False idea.
The worst form of fear is fear itself.
I forgot who originally coined that phrase.
Absolutely examine everything to see if it is so in Scripture!
The sovereignty of God and relying on the Lord is absolutely critical and evaluating our own lives and what happens in them as well as what happens in the lives of those around us. We cannot control it. God does.
This does create the attitude where we have to ask God for the grace regardless of what happens because as my pastor has often quoted "When you pray what happens is God's answer." Sometimes it's trouble and trial and we learn from it sometimes it's blessing and we appreciate it but in either case we rest in the fact that we know God is ultimately in control.
Regarding generational curses I know of men who have used this as an excuse for why they abuse their children because it was the curse that came from their abusive parents but they completely missed the rest of the verse that says it's only those who hate God who struggle with the curse. It's not for those who have trusted Christ and love the Lord. Those who are saved immediately break the curse.
Always beware of any man/woman who says they have the only source of truth and you cannot find truth anywhere else except for that man/woman. There is never new revelation from God.
Our safety is found in knowing and loving Jesus and His Word.
People will let us down Jesus never does.
There's both Justice and mercy found in the Gospel.
Testing in the finished work of Christ is essential!
Thoughts to add for consideration on this topic.
It's not about performing. It is about love. You do for those you love. You sacrifice for those you love. You choose your priorities based on those you love. There are things you will do for a person that you love that you won't do for a set of rules.
Ask your self the question "how can I figure this out with out losing real truth and My relationship with Christ."
So approaching questions like drums in music or other things should be approached by first asking the 3 questions about acceptable Christian practice in 1 Corinthians. 6:12, 10:23
All things are lawful but...
1. All things do not edify
2. All things are not profitable
3. I will not be brought under the power of anything.
When we honestly consider our Christian practices in the light of these three questions we tend to come up with a set of priorities that honor God separate from thinking it's a bunch of rules to follow.
This process is done through a relationship with the Holy Spirit through the Word of God.
We also need to have a conversation about what it really means to honor God and our parents and others.
I hear people say if you're going to honor parents/people then, you never ever say anything bad about them for the sinful things they have done. But if we look at this biblically that means that God dishonored David and Moses and Samson and Rahab and all of these other people when He told about their sins. Ephesians 5:8-14 says not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them. So sometimes it's honoring to God to expose the sins of people and sometimes those sins are sins of parents and they need to be exposed and dealt with, not hidden, because if they're hidden then Ephesians 5 says we are fellowshipping with the unfruitful works of darkness by not exposing them. How we do that is extremely important. It's the tone and method that is used in exposing the sin that determines whether or not you are honoring someone not whether or not you have to say that they have sinned and expose it.
Interesting interview. Thank you.
Bill Gothard misses the sovereignty of God. If we became a smaller diamond every time we made the wrong decision, we would be down to almost nothing. Even when something bad happens or we make a wrong decision, God is still in control. He is working everything together for good according to God’s good plan. Romans 8:28, Genesis 50:19,20
Deconstruction being related to shaving the head is poor.if you shave off your hair it regrows new. It’s the same with deconstruction. If you tear down a building down to the foundation.or cornerstone you can still rebuild it. I walked away from church. I did not walk away from God. But God alone has rebuilt my life and faith from a brand new start. Deconstructing with people who throw it away, doesn’t mean they cannot go find it again and pick it up.
Great concept - disentangling rather than "throwing out the baby with the bathwater". I suppose legalism results from a lack of the conviction of the Holy Spirit, which I see, understand, and experienced is TOTAL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS and Jesus becomes and IS our RIGHTEOUSNESS given to us by the Grace of God. We abandon our own effort or perspective of having any righteousness. We love God founded on this Free Grace. We are then motivated by our Love for Him and seek the reality of His Gift of Righteousness. Depending on the Holy Spirit to establish the fruit of the spirit in us-- by Grace. Ephesians 2:8
Disintangling. Wow, what a woman of God.
Totally ironic that BG has been kicked out of his own organization for abusing women.
I am proud of Jinger for telling her story and working through the bad teachings. I do pray she and her husband show the same Berean mindset with her current pastor (John MacArthur). He and his church excommunicate woman for leaving abusive husbands.
I like the word disentangle. But I wouldn’t deal with putty in my hair the same way. I wouldn’t shave my head but I might change my hairstyle to get rid of the putty.
😉
John MacArthur has always seemed rather harsh and joyless
to me. The working of the Holy
Spirit in the church brings freedom.
Disentanglement. That's a good way to put it, and much more apropos to my own situation.
Is there anyone who actually breaks down the IBLP doctrines and explains where Gothard deviates from Scripture? I only have minimal exposure to his teachings. But I know that my old youth pastor is quite enamored with Gothard. I'd like to be able to point him to a trustworthy critique.
Is the 7 principles the same as the 7 kingdom in dominion theology???
I like that word 'disentangle'...that's the word coming out of a church with dysfunctional and unbiblical leadership.
Jesus Christ is Who He said He was. The Word of God IS living and Active and the Holy Spirit is our Teacher, our Comforter, our God in 3rd Person. He will draw us closer to Truth. He will help us untangle stuff that isnt right. And He will steer us BACK...on the path less travelled.
We can grow again. We can find God in every area of our life.
Disentangle, thats a good word.
I deconstructed but it seems to be continual.
Born into Catholicism.
Born again at home. Left Catholicism. Learned from bible reading. Bible studies. Churches. Based in Futurism.
Then entered into the Historicist method.
My belief is that we have not kept up on the history of the church. Great Controversy is a good overall history. From original sin in heaven. America. And Jesus’ return.
Growth.
2 Pe 3:18 - But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
What is funny is that no one in Israel wore pants when the Bible was written. They hadn't been developed yet.
To those who are concerned about Calvinism: the Christian Reformed Churches are Calvinistic but hardly cults. Read up on the French Huguenots. These were Calvinists who were horribly persecuted by the Catholic Church. They died for their faith.
What happened to people reading the Bible and allowing the holy spirit to guide you. In John, it says we need no other teacher. The truth is in the bible, God's word, that is it. God lives through your body is his temple, keep it pure and clean. We lay down our lives to allow God to become us, thus we become one, just as Jesus is.
Bill Gotherd not Bill Gather , correct ?
Correct.
Bill Gothard ?
Bill Gather is the musician Bill Gothard was the Institue for life principles public speaker
@@Samy-sx6kn Bill Gothard is a man who has never been married, never had children, BUT he felt entitled to tell everyone who listened to his BS, how to treat your wife and raise your kids! No birth control allowed, NO woman is allowed to deny her husband sex!!! How people believed this nonsense, is mind boggling!! His religion taught that MEN are the head of the household, had to control their wives and children, until they die!! Children are NOT allowed to leave home until they married!! And, their fathers had to pick out their spouses!! And, if one of your children, never marries, then they are NEVER ALLOWED to leave home, even if they are in their thirties, forty’s’, fifties because their father has power over them!! It’s RIDICULOUS!! It is definitely a CULT!! They brainwash their families with this crap!! When you marry, you are to cling to your spouse, YOUR PARENTS SHOULD NOT KEEP DEMANDING THAT YOU LISTEN TO THEIR RULES!!! Parents being relentless, no respecting your freedoms, is so WRONG!!! They have lied to their children their whole lives!! Anytime anyone says, don’t bother reading the Bible for yourself, RUN away as fast as you can!!!
"I would never ever descontrsuct my faith"
*Describes how she deconstructed her faith but calls it something else*
Hebrews 4: 12 - 13
Namesake (Galatians 6: 3🚩)
About the dress code? If you look into cultures and where things come from, It makes it so much easier to be obedient to the word of God because you understand the concepts. When that directive was written, There was a religion that followed a goddess that taught cross dressing. Man dressed up like women, Women dressed up like men. It wasn't about slacks. Or pants. It was about deliberately trying to appear as the other gender. Kind of like now! That directive was pointed at those people and that behavior. It had nothing to do with wearing pants.
📖 🔥 🙏
I heard Bill Gothard speak in a conference when I was a teenager. At the time I thought he was just like everybody else. There was a lot of Christian ideas floating around back then. I actually owe him. Even at the age of sixteen I could see that he was teaching some stuff that was wacky. Way off base. And I saw some of the fall out from that. A good friend nearly lost her mind trying to follow him. What I learned from Mr. Gothard is.. Not all that sounds holy is holy. I would caution Jinger regarding Dr. McArhur. I learned over the years to trace back where people come from and how they gain their support. And he is in the same school as Mr. Gothard, just packaged better.
The important thing is, Jinger has developed the skills to discern. And I'm proud of her because what she came out of? Didn't make it easy.
Hi, would you share how you traced back where Dr McArthur came from and how he gained his support? I’m very interested… bc I’m sensing something off with his approach. Thank you!
@jennihubby2877 You started outlooking at his friends, Then where we came from. But mostly you will find it in his teaching. I know that a lot of people has seen him as a solid man for quite ately but the pattern seems to be that they're solid for quite a. While and then they'll take a turn. They wait until you believe in them. People have this habit of making a judgment about a person and then keeping it no matter what they see. It's a very useful technique. My suggestion would be to just simply listen to his teaching and. Look for where he deviates.. These easy ways for me to just say, don't follow him but it would be better for you to learn how to detect it yourself because there's. A lot of them out there.
MacArthur has spoken against Gothards teaching.
@@shari1442 yes..and now they have Hinger as a spokesperson. I'm not telling you to do anything. You just need to learn how to recognize them.
@@ConstantCompanion Who is "them"?
I don’t know what this man teaches but guidance or guidelines are good. I look around at many of our churches today and women are dressing very inappropriately considering how many of our Christian brothers are struggling with porn addiction. Divorce is high and it’s heartbreaking. Being taught to work your way to God is the other extreme. Thinking about Jewish culture in the Bible or even many other cultures things were very strict. Our society is so far removed with “freedom” that we have went so far the other way. I guess what I’m trying to say to some degree is if the Holy Spirit leads you to dress or act in a certain way out of conviction great but not because you are trying to follow man made rules.
Your last line creates a huge mountain for you to overcome. Who are you to say the Holy Spirit never told anyone what they claim they were told???
@@kenid4144 - that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m sorry you missed understood.
@@iamhis5580 Once you grant that the Holy Spirit can lead someone to dress a certain way, you're on your way to becoming a "fruit-watcher". I'm sorry to say that.
@@kenid4144 I was speaking of my own life.
Could it be true for you only, but not for others? Did the Holy Spirit lead you to a certain clothe to wear? What would you say to a Christian lady who says the Holy Spirit told her it's okay to dash to the grocery store in a pair of yoga pants?
I attended Bill Gothard seminars in the 1980’s and I don’t remember legalism being taught. Mostly I remember spiritual principals being taught and no legalistic approach to salvation. Many people were really encouraged by him.
Exactly the point Jinger made-it was not taught, per se, but you expected to follow the formula for successful living.
Yes, I attended them too, and they were very helpful to me. It's the WAY the teachings were applied that makes the difference. If a person has a predisposition to take things legalistically, then they can make themselves slaves to a way of living and beat themselves over the head with the teachings. I picked those parts which were most appropriate for us, and they've been tremendously helpful. The teaching on "yielding rights" is PURE GOLD! It has given me so much peace.
I attended Gothard’s seminar and never heard the legalistic side. He got me to start memorizing and meditating on Scripture and that has been huge in my growth. Saddens me because there was much good taught and seems like his teaching is only attached to hyper legalism. I’m a better Christian because of attending and that was in 1974.
@Peter D'Souza you are right in saying that it was "not taught per se". And there were many who followed the suggestions or recommendations more closely than I did, who would report the benefits they received from the seminar and very little to no negative outcomes. I don't know about you, but there aren't any Bible teachers that I agree with 100 % of the time on every topic. No human being is perfect, and if perfection is required to preach, teach, write books, or create any other types of curriculum or materials, then there should be no preachers/teachers or Christian authors because the Jinger Voulos of the world will say that they were harmed by the way they or their parents used the materials. Let's just sit back now and wait for Jinger's children to be teens so we can watch her perfect parenting and see how they agree with her on everything 😉!
I love zoiegirl
Deconstruction is just a fancy word for being an apostate
Or for many it is just a change in belief due to the learning of new evidence that doesn't support former beliefs.
@@truncated7644 Would you advise it for Muslims?
@@theelizabethan1 Not if it created a dangerous situation for them. Why do you ask?
It is idolatry to make someone other than Jesus your hero!
23:48 "7 principles" - by Gothard - anyone reminded of "12 principles" by Jordan Peterson?
Gothard
@@theelizabethan1 Thank you.
I'll have to look him up.
Of coarse femals have their hero sisters with flesh still visible covenants wrote with ink and paper very natural flesh needs for mind stories with right mind female names, hope you act like Paul that played all beliefs to try and save their mind from seen jew and gentile male and female that Christ fulfills by same dead seed that sprouted in your mind Paul reminded a temple man is blinded till death wakes you. Remember bragging grace needs ear and voice silence to hear still small voice children toy are loud some time when prophecy and knowledge become dust.
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Did you miss the stories about BG’s sexual/perverted abuse of young ladies, or did you chose not to air them. The gist was he seemed to not cross the line into sex, but he sure got too close to some of the young ladies in a way that if you saw an older man being that close to your daughter you would prolly slap him.