Wasn’t one of the biggest gripes JBP had with the “postmodern neo-marxists” that they prioritized collective identity over the individual? Matt McManus really hit the nail on the head with the label “Postmodern Conservatism”
I would honestly give JP more credit if his lore wasnt so shallow. His takes on the Freudian school and myth in general rise to the level of an undergrad battling an intense marijuana addiction
The Rangers of the North, were not elves. They were human, Dunedain, the descendants of the Numenoreans who migrated to Middle-earth. The Rangers of the North were established by humans, by the remnants of the Kingdom of Arnor after it was destroyed in the war with Angmar. Before Arnor was destroyed, before these ranger descendants of ancient kings existed, one of the kings of Arnor granted the hobbits the right to live in the shire, and offered them protection in exchanged for the hobbits recognizing the Kings authority. That might have been a better starting point for Peterson's analogy. While the Rangers of the North did also protect the shire, they were hardly the picture of stability or authority in the region. The hobbits may not have even been aware of the protection they had from the Dunedain Rangers due to their low profile and secrecy.
Aragorn is one of the Dunedain, rangers of the forest who are descended from ancient kings. Strider is his alias to prevent people from learning that he is descended from Elendil, former king of Numenor who was killed by Sauron after cutting the One Ring from Sauron's hand.
Let’s also remember LOTR is a story about Tolkien and perhaps a close friend in the trenches facing against powers that want to dominate all and destroy, while they would rather be among beloved friends and good company, merrymaking with food and drink. You can confront violence with violence, but it’s better to expose the incentives to the fires of Mt Doom. An anti war story.
@@polybian_bicyclein the religious sense, yes. It wasn’t ever Tolkien’s interest to analyze his writings in the way of using allegory, but it might be a fair interpretation of where certain elements of the story came from based upon his own life.
If we make the (questionable) choice to take Peterson’s metaphor on its own terms, LotR doesn’t make the point he thinks it makes. The whole point of the story is precisely that the “descendants of ancient kings” and all the other power-wielders can’t be trusted with too much power (the ring) because they all get corrupted by it every time. It takes the simple humble spirit of the little people - the ones Peterson thinks are liberals - to do the right thing. That guy loves coming up with analogies but he does not like thinking them through.
@ Right, I didn’t mean that they want low taxes and hardly any restrictions on owning firearms, or even that they are skeptical about reason’s capacity to solve our problems, but that they don’t like change and distrust strangers and stuff like that.
So they managed to somehow make this quote stupid. "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.”
From a psychoanalytic perspective there is probably a lot wrong with Peterson and his motivations. Historically it is also ruining LOTR. Things that are self evident and not seen as so...... logically are not self evident. If people need to explain it to you and you need to believe it, that's coersion or worse.
So he is been smoking weed since 12. Is that anecdote of him telling his roommate to throw out the SOB trash. Was that just self hatred wanting his roommate to react to his high ass. 🤔
The framing of the whole discussion is incorrect from the start because it predicates itself on an understanding of the term "liberal" to mean open-minded and left leaning *ONLY* as it relates to a specific bubble, not in any global sense... What he is describing, and why he chose a deeply Christian text to do so, is "classical liberalism". ...but the audience for a conversation between Peterson and Rubin don't know that.
I’m very pessimistic. We need to reposition values of love, honesty, fellowship and union at the center of our social ideology. What does the contemporary left espouse? Power and relativism? Those are the terms of a fascist politics. We are really getting dangerously close to a fascist society, and the mainstream of the Democratic Party is ideologically tied to a dead ideology. Will the Revolution come as an apocalyptic event? A moment of intense reaction followed by eternal paradise? Or will the reaction prevail, and humanity will be forced to live in a perpetual inferno? We must reinterpret the events of contemporary society. Our current ideology only leads into pits of despair, framed as joyous self-perseverance in spite of social adversity. We have to show how human reason can triumph over the contradictions of capitalist society.
I respectfully suggest that you may be overestimating the dark qualities of the Left. A great deal of the contemporary Left centers its politics on a very simple, durable, and even conservative morality -- "liberty and justice for all"; treat all fairly; take care of the unfortunate (which includes almost all of us at some time or another); thou shalt not murder; care for the environment that is the basis of all possibility of future well-being; etc. Zinn, Chomsky, and many others are voices of this sort. There are of course some postmodern relativist babblers on the Left, but they are not the people driving labor, environmental, or justice activism. Scratch a Socialist, find a moralist -- and a good thing, too.
Man I love Ben. And I love his POV. But as a guy with misophonia, that sleep-apnea vocal with the terrible mic is always gonna make it impossible for me to tune in.
The point Peterson was trying to make was that the Hobbits are in their own insular world. He wasn't giving a realistic world view, nor do the Hobbits really have or need one. The Hobbits, minus the few we know of course who actually do something about the "evil" going on for 3 movies, live in blissful ignorance, keeping their culture alive. You guys are filling the void with your nerd talk, which is funny but not really in the spirit of what most Hobbits did or thought.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I can’t believe that JP ignored the important role that Tom Bombadil plays in protecting the Shire and Northern Eriador.
Wasn’t one of the biggest gripes JBP had with the “postmodern neo-marxists” that they prioritized collective identity over the individual?
Matt McManus really hit the nail on the head with the label “Postmodern Conservatism”
Jordan hasn't read any of the "post modernists"
He’s an individualist when you ask for help, and he’s a collectivist when you ask for privacy. In other words, he’s a conservative.
They're called the Dúnedain, they're descendants of Númenor.
When Peterson says something is self evident - he means he hasn't got a logical and rational argument to defend it.
I would honestly give JP more credit if his lore wasnt so shallow. His takes on the Freudian school and myth in general rise to the level of an undergrad battling an intense marijuana addiction
Lord of the Rings is Elf evident.
Take your upvote and get out.
The Rangers of the North, were not elves. They were human, Dunedain, the descendants of the Numenoreans who migrated to Middle-earth. The Rangers of the North were established by humans, by the remnants of the Kingdom of Arnor after it was destroyed in the war with Angmar.
Before Arnor was destroyed, before these ranger descendants of ancient kings existed, one of the kings of Arnor granted the hobbits the right to live in the shire, and offered them protection in exchanged for the hobbits recognizing the Kings authority. That might have been a better starting point for Peterson's analogy. While the Rangers of the North did also protect the shire, they were hardly the picture of stability or authority in the region. The hobbits may not have even been aware of the protection they had from the Dunedain Rangers due to their low profile and secrecy.
Aragorn is one of the Dunedain, rangers of the forest who are descended from ancient kings. Strider is his alias to prevent people from learning that he is descended from Elendil, former king of Numenor who was killed by Sauron after cutting the One Ring from Sauron's hand.
Let’s also remember LOTR is a story about Tolkien and perhaps a close friend in the trenches facing against powers that want to dominate all and destroy, while they would rather be among beloved friends and good company, merrymaking with food and drink.
You can confront violence with violence, but it’s better to expose the incentives to the fires of Mt Doom.
An anti war story.
No. Tolkien hated allegory.
@@polybian_bicyclein the religious sense, yes. It wasn’t ever Tolkien’s interest to analyze his writings in the way of using allegory, but it might be a fair interpretation of where certain elements of the story came from based upon his own life.
@@zdra8945
I think he explicitly said that LotR is not an allegory for the world wars.
If we make the (questionable) choice to take Peterson’s metaphor on its own terms, LotR doesn’t make the point he thinks it makes. The whole point of the story is precisely that the “descendants of ancient kings” and all the other power-wielders can’t be trusted with too much power (the ring) because they all get corrupted by it every time. It takes the simple humble spirit of the little people - the ones Peterson thinks are liberals - to do the right thing.
That guy loves coming up with analogies but he does not like thinking them through.
I love the retro "two cans and string" quality of Ben's microphone.
Hobbits are not liberals, they’re very conservative, at least by disposition.
Like Tolkien himself, they are neither conservative nor liberal in the terms of our present-day political taxonomy, but include features of both.
@ Right, I didn’t mean that they want low taxes and hardly any restrictions on owning firearms, or even that they are skeptical about reason’s capacity to solve our problems, but that they don’t like change and distrust strangers and stuff like that.
*Cut to Dave Rubin*
"They have a Cave Troll"
So they managed to somehow make this quote stupid.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.”
Stupider but yeah
From a psychoanalytic perspective there is probably a lot wrong with Peterson and his motivations. Historically it is also ruining LOTR.
Things that are self evident and not seen as so...... logically are not self evident. If people need to explain it to you and you need to believe it, that's coersion or worse.
It’s bilbo
If RM doesn't make a video about this I am going to be very sad.
@ my response if he doesn’t: “I’m gonna haunt you”
13:16 smoking weed? I call BS
So this is basically a "higher brow" take than when Tim Pool trys to compare reality to Marvel movies ?
So he is been smoking weed since 12. Is that anecdote of him telling his roommate to throw out the SOB trash. Was that just self hatred wanting his roommate to react to his high ass. 🤔
The framing of the whole discussion is incorrect from the start because it predicates itself on an understanding of the term "liberal" to mean open-minded and left leaning *ONLY* as it relates to a specific bubble, not in any global sense... What he is describing, and why he chose a deeply Christian text to do so, is "classical liberalism".
...but the audience for a conversation between Peterson and Rubin don't know that.
It worked! But i ran out of air too quickly
I’m very pessimistic. We need to reposition values of love, honesty, fellowship and union at the center of our social ideology. What does the contemporary left espouse? Power and relativism? Those are the terms of a fascist politics. We are really getting dangerously close to a fascist society, and the mainstream of the Democratic Party is ideologically tied to a dead ideology. Will the Revolution come as an apocalyptic event? A moment of intense reaction followed by eternal paradise? Or will the reaction prevail, and humanity will be forced to live in a perpetual inferno? We must reinterpret the events of contemporary society. Our current ideology only leads into pits of despair, framed as joyous self-perseverance in spite of social adversity. We have to show how human reason can triumph over the contradictions of capitalist society.
I respectfully suggest that you may be overestimating the dark qualities of the Left. A great deal of the contemporary Left centers its politics on a very simple, durable, and even conservative morality -- "liberty and justice for all"; treat all fairly; take care of the unfortunate (which includes almost all of us at some time or another); thou shalt not murder; care for the environment that is the basis of all possibility of future well-being; etc. Zinn, Chomsky, and many others are voices of this sort. There are of course some postmodern relativist babblers on the Left, but they are not the people driving labor, environmental, or justice activism. Scratch a Socialist, find a moralist -- and a good thing, too.
Man I love Ben. And I love his POV. But as a guy with misophonia, that sleep-apnea vocal with the terrible mic is always gonna make it impossible for me to tune in.
Jordy was half-listening to the audio book.
The point Peterson was trying to make was that the Hobbits are in their own insular world. He wasn't giving a realistic world view, nor do the Hobbits really have or need one. The Hobbits, minus the few we know of course who actually do something about the "evil" going on for 3 movies, live in blissful ignorance, keeping their culture alive. You guys are filling the void with your nerd talk, which is funny but not really in the spirit of what most Hobbits did or thought.
I'm allergic to cats. Sorry JP
Peterson coming with such a Brandybuck take!
He's the blood of the Dunedain.
It’s ’self evident’ that they have some good weed up in Canada! ;)
It's Bilbo!!
I get that he spoke to alienation and all that, but Lord has this man keeps losing his mind more every time
🦞 *energy*
JBP the very white. Good thumbnail.