I think the purpose of liandry maokai is only to abuse ashes, which is better for clearing than bami's if I remember correctly, which shows the stupidity of the situation. Technically, he's just trying to do something with the jgl meta, especially to beat Zyra's clear speed early. It's just a build to beat the match up, which is good in solo queue but sucks in proplay. Would it be better to still build ashes first into full tank with a liandry as a third or fourth item with aftershock ? You still have the main purpose of maokai as a tank and engager while having the broken ashes.
The thing is maokai is mostly picked as long range engage and to give safe vision with his E. He doesnt need to be super tanky early and as you mentioned with fated ashes his clear speed increases by an insane amount. With Bamis he would autoloose the game after 15mins just from clearspeed alone, while also not being much tankier if u dont finish your bamis item, since this delays your first finished tank item aswell. Liandrys just accelerates your early gameplay by a lot, which is needed for tank jungler, since they wont keep up in the clear speed department.
Its not about being a tank/ap champ, its about building broken items. Fated ashes is broken. Maokai can build it and still do his job. While being a lot faster on the map than if he build warmogs, sunfire or anything else first item. The job of tank junglers like maokai sejuani currently isnt to be as tanky as possible but to be efficient with resources as possible and providing lots of utility. That is why other tank junglers like sejuani build zekes or knights vow or locket rather than tank items first. Also youre claiming he is an engage tank, which is not really true. His R is a great engage tool but he doesnt need to be tanky to use it, he can go full ap or any other build and click R while being 1 screen away. Other than his R his engage is very bad, E isnt an engage, walking up to someone and pressing W on them also really isnt in a 5v5 scenario.
This build was more popular end of last year....when it was still pretty trash lol. Mostly used just for vision control and hopefully a big ult....but yea you miss out on so much of Mao's kit when going the squishy build. Kind of a G2 special tho....since their play style is assuming they are going to trash their opponent and not ever be playing from behind.
I agree to that. Their trying to be a jack of all trades, but their a master of none. It's the same with nunu ap it's decent at first because you aren't as abusable. However you will fall off. Neither scale that well for total offense. Liandry's hurts maokai it doesn't give omnivamp to fixate his health. If someone like a tryndamere or an adc were to build lifesteal. Say he dives Tristana, but she jumps to pull him further in. He can't kill either. He will fall like the tree he is. Being able to survive longer also means more damage. The only ap item I feel great on either is Rod of Ages. As you will have ap, but you get hp, and the mana can be used for hp with fimbulwinter (tear upgrade.) Nobody get's pentakills on Maokai. Any sort of shield is going to make your damage irrelevant. Being able to hold someone down during a team fight that's worth.. Otherwise play someone like mordekaiser and flame that everyone left you when your ult ends.
My guy you should start thinking more about the stuff pros are building and why, before just straight up calling it trash. They are certainly more invested into the game than you and while they not always build correctly, they at least have a reasoning for building the way they do. In my opinion you completely missed the mark on this video and the idea behind the maokai build.
If you think pros EVER think about their builds you haven't been watching pro league for a long time. Pros are some of the worst at itemizing correctly and are on pure autopilot most of the time. From collector over LDR 2-3 years ago, chempunk 1st item 1.5 year ago, back in s9 when 3-4 people on the same team would build black cleaver for no reason and many more instances. And what is this argument "They are certainly more invested into the game than you and while they not always build correctly, they at least have a reasoning for building the way they do." ITS LITERALLY THEIR JOB TO KNOW HOW TO ITEMIZE AND YET THEY KEEP LOSING TO CALCULATORS. If you think pros are some gods that cant to any wrong you are fucking delusional. Pros have good mechanics and some have good macro sense thats it.
@@Roach2137 i commented on other comments aswell, but i think ADcentCarry has a decent insight :) but here the copy pasta for you: He misses the point of the build, which lies in the clear speed. Liandrys rush means fated ashes which accelerates your clearspeed by an insane amount, while being affordable after the first clear. But I see many videos on this channel with bad takes. Bro probably didnt even test bami or doesnt know how to use the burn of fated ashes for a faster clear. Comparing this build (even if meant as a joke) to AS Ornn shows complete lack of understanding of high elo gameplay. The thing is maokai is mostly picked as long range engage and to give safe vision with his E. He doesnt need to be super tanky early. With Bamis he would autoloose the game after 15mins just from clearspeed alone, while also not being much tankier if u dont finish your bamis item, since this delays your first finished tank item aswell. Liandrys just accelerates your early gameplay by a lot, which is needed for tank jungler, since they wont keep up in the clear speed department later on.
your right but your also wrong. building 3 armor items is just a waste of resources. liandrys 3rd is actually really viable, especially into these matchups. also thats not really how abysall mask works. like yeah its nice if you have other ap threats but building it into 3 squishy adcs who arent gonna build mr is its best use case. building it into tanks or oeople already building mr is aagain a waste of resources as its flat pen not %. warmogs is i think just quite bad in the jungle like it has no usecase you dont need the heal the hp is pretty useless. just sitting on bami and then building into like dead mans then into randuins into liandrys. the issue with building 3 armor items here is that by the time maokai gets 3 items their adcs are on their 4th items which are going to be armor pen because everybody just builds the armor pen item. its basically the 1 item you need that counters a tanks entire build so why not build it. at that point you bascially lose a full item if you have 3 armor items vs if you have 2 armor items you only lose like 2/3rds of one
no abyssal mask is 20% magic pen. They changed it quite some patches ago. Doesnt mean that this video is right. He misses the point of the build, which lies in the clear speed. Liandrys rush means fated ashes which accelerates your clearspeed by an insane amount, while being affordable after the first clear. But I see many videos on this channel with bad takes. Bro probably didnt even test bami or doesnt know how to use the burn of fated ashes for a faster clear. Comparing this build (even if meant as a joke) to AS Ornn shows complete lack of understanding of high elo gameplay.
I think the purpose of liandry maokai is only to abuse ashes, which is better for clearing than bami's if I remember correctly, which shows the stupidity of the situation. Technically, he's just trying to do something with the jgl meta, especially to beat Zyra's clear speed early. It's just a build to beat the match up, which is good in solo queue but sucks in proplay. Would it be better to still build ashes first into full tank with a liandry as a third or fourth item with aftershock ? You still have the main purpose of maokai as a tank and engager while having the broken ashes.
The thing is maokai is mostly picked as long range engage and to give safe vision with his E. He doesnt need to be super tanky early and as you mentioned with fated ashes his clear speed increases by an insane amount. With Bamis he would autoloose the game after 15mins just from clearspeed alone, while also not being much tankier if u dont finish your bamis item, since this delays your first finished tank item aswell. Liandrys just accelerates your early gameplay by a lot, which is needed for tank jungler, since they wont keep up in the clear speed department.
This 10 minute video could have been a 30 second short.
Its not about being a tank/ap champ, its about building broken items. Fated ashes is broken. Maokai can build it and still do his job. While being a lot faster on the map than if he build warmogs, sunfire or anything else first item. The job of tank junglers like maokai sejuani currently isnt to be as tanky as possible but to be efficient with resources as possible and providing lots of utility. That is why other tank junglers like sejuani build zekes or knights vow or locket rather than tank items first.
Also youre claiming he is an engage tank, which is not really true. His R is a great engage tool but he doesnt need to be tanky to use it, he can go full ap or any other build and click R while being 1 screen away. Other than his R his engage is very bad, E isnt an engage, walking up to someone and pressing W on them also really isnt in a 5v5 scenario.
This build was more popular end of last year....when it was still pretty trash lol. Mostly used just for vision control and hopefully a big ult....but yea you miss out on so much of Mao's kit when going the squishy build.
Kind of a G2 special tho....since their play style is assuming they are going to trash their opponent and not ever be playing from behind.
Thank God you know more than the pros
I agree to that. Their trying to be a jack of all trades, but their a master of none. It's the same with nunu ap it's decent at first because you aren't as abusable. However you will fall off. Neither scale that well for total offense. Liandry's hurts maokai it doesn't give omnivamp to fixate his health. If someone like a tryndamere or an adc were to build lifesteal. Say he dives Tristana, but she jumps to pull him further in. He can't kill either. He will fall like the tree he is. Being able to survive longer also means more damage. The only ap item I feel great on either is Rod of Ages. As you will have ap, but you get hp, and the mana can be used for hp with fimbulwinter (tear upgrade.) Nobody get's pentakills on Maokai. Any sort of shield is going to make your damage irrelevant. Being able to hold someone down during a team fight that's worth.. Otherwise play someone like mordekaiser and flame that everyone left you when your ult ends.
My guy you should start thinking more about the stuff pros are building and why, before just straight up calling it trash. They are certainly more invested into the game than you and while they not always build correctly, they at least have a reasoning for building the way they do. In my opinion you completely missed the mark on this video and the idea behind the maokai build.
good thing you elaborated on that. you're clueless
If you think pros EVER think about their builds you haven't been watching pro league for a long time. Pros are some of the worst at itemizing correctly and are on pure autopilot most of the time. From collector over LDR 2-3 years ago, chempunk 1st item 1.5 year ago, back in s9 when 3-4 people on the same team would build black cleaver for no reason and many more instances.
And what is this argument "They are certainly more invested into the game than you and while they not always build correctly, they at least have a reasoning for building the way they do." ITS LITERALLY THEIR JOB TO KNOW HOW TO ITEMIZE AND YET THEY KEEP LOSING TO CALCULATORS. If you think pros are some gods that cant to any wrong you are fucking delusional. Pros have good mechanics and some have good macro sense thats it.
@@Roach2137 i commented on other comments aswell, but i think ADcentCarry has a decent insight :) but here the copy pasta for you: He misses the point of the build, which lies in the clear speed. Liandrys rush means fated ashes which accelerates your clearspeed by an insane amount, while being affordable after the first clear. But I see many videos on this channel with bad takes. Bro probably didnt even test bami or doesnt know how to use the burn of fated ashes for a faster clear. Comparing this build (even if meant as a joke) to AS Ornn shows complete lack of understanding of high elo gameplay.
The thing is maokai is mostly picked as long range engage and to give safe vision with his E. He doesnt need to be super tanky early. With Bamis he would autoloose the game after 15mins just from clearspeed alone, while also not being much tankier if u dont finish your bamis item, since this delays your first finished tank item aswell. Liandrys just accelerates your early gameplay by a lot, which is needed for tank jungler, since they wont keep up in the clear speed department later on.
your right but your also wrong. building 3 armor items is just a waste of resources. liandrys 3rd is actually really viable, especially into these matchups. also thats not really how abysall mask works. like yeah its nice if you have other ap threats but building it into 3 squishy adcs who arent gonna build mr is its best use case. building it into tanks or oeople already building mr is aagain a waste of resources as its flat pen not %. warmogs is i think just quite bad in the jungle like it has no usecase you dont need the heal the hp is pretty useless. just sitting on bami and then building into like dead mans then into randuins into liandrys. the issue with building 3 armor items here is that by the time maokai gets 3 items their adcs are on their 4th items which are going to be armor pen because everybody just builds the armor pen item. its basically the 1 item you need that counters a tanks entire build so why not build it. at that point you bascially lose a full item if you have 3 armor items vs if you have 2 armor items you only lose like 2/3rds of one
I think you forgot that now warmogs gives 10% move speed with the passive, which is insane for junglers
no abyssal mask is 20% magic pen. They changed it quite some patches ago. Doesnt mean that this video is right. He misses the point of the build, which lies in the clear speed. Liandrys rush means fated ashes which accelerates your clearspeed by an insane amount, while being affordable after the first clear. But I see many videos on this channel with bad takes. Bro probably didnt even test bami or doesnt know how to use the burn of fated ashes for a faster clear. Comparing this build (even if meant as a joke) to AS Ornn shows complete lack of understanding of high elo gameplay.
brother, dont be drunk. Abyssal is % mr redo. It is turbo strong with ap threats, as it triggers before % m pen or flat m pen.