Post tribulation, pre-tribulation, mid tribulation, I am not a Bible scholar so for me, I don’t care when it happens, as long as it happens which it will. If the Lord wants us here through it then so be it. I do not fear Satan or the Antichrist because they can kill the body but not the soul. I fear the Lord who can kill the soul and I want my soul to be with Christ no matter what I will go through.
@@flatrodangerfield5246 huh? I have no clue what you are trying to say? Very convoluted. I know where I am in my faith and Christ Jesus knows also, so that’s alright with me….
@@dd_2023 someone needs to read their Bible, hopefully you have a Holy Bible, kjv is great. The lack of knowledge will send you to hell, get the knowledge….
For if we live ,we live for the Lord and if we die, we die to the Lord, whether we live or die we are the Lord's. Set your mind and heart either way. Christ died for us we should also be wholeheartedly be willing to die for our faith in HIM. Being a martyr for our faith in Christ is the highest honor we could attain 🌹❤🕯
THank you Dr. Brown. I have just become a Christian for months now. I had been a Seventh-day Adventist for 25 years. But when I become a Christian, leaving Adventism, I could not reconcile the idea of secret rapture. Now it is very clear to me that the coming of Jesus is not a secret but an event that the whole world to see.
The church has suffered persecution since our Savior’s ascension. Considering the profound number of verses admonishing us to endure, why would the Lord begin selectively choosing who is (& isn’t) to endure in the generation of Christ’s return?
"Selectively", and why would the Lord "begin" to do so as if it was never in His plan? Scripture is _VERY_ clear on why the tribulation takes place...who it's for, and when it will happen.
Why? Because HE comes to judge the inhabitants of the world and we are not of the world. Ps. 1:5 the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment nor sinners with the congregation of the righteous.
@Brian Johnston Things can be "CLEAR", yet disputed...I get that. Kind of like when momma was _CLEAR_ about getting the room cleaned up, but often an argument would ensue, right? :) A/way... Like I stated, the bible *IS* clear on *WHY* the tribulation takes place. Now, this is not necessarily all inclusive, but it *IS* clear, and *Daniel 9:24* tells us exactly... "Seventy weeks *ARE DETERMINED* upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." *1* Finish the transgression *2* Put an end to sin *3* Make an atonement for iniquity *4* To bring in e/lasting righteousness *5* Seal up the vision & prophesy *6* Anoint Christ! It won't be till the Jews cry out from the Messianic psalm, *Ps 118:26* where it says; *=====>* "Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord." which is *JUST* as *Matt **23:39* says will happen; *=====>* "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Then too, *Rev 3:20* tell us EXACTLY who the tribulation is for, and WHY it will take place; "...the hour of temptation, which _SHALL COME_ upon all the world, to TRY THEM THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH." Every characteristic that is assigned to the "EARTH DWELLERS" in *Revelation* is _clearly_ that of unbelievers. Hey...gotta go! Been up since 1:30am & I'll be right at it again tomorrow~~:) *MARANATHA!*
Very straightforward and legit. Biblical support for a single "2nd" coming is quite prolific. Since we know that happens at the end, then it's pretty straight forward. We will be as in the land of Goshen, preserved, affected yes, but not overtaken or overcome by the trial which the whole world will be in.
Yes, the Bible only talks about Jesus’ 2nd Coming and never a 3rd Coming. “so also Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a SECOND TIME, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are WAITING for HIM.” ~ Hebrews 9:28 CSB
I have to disagree with you. In the past, we see where the lord executes judgment three times, upon the city of Sodom, upon the nation of Egypt, and the entire world, and at no time did he allow the righteous to witness the destruction of the unrighteous which will surely happen if the Church goes through the tribulation. In the past, we also see how the lord had protected the righteous by either preparing a place for them in advance or taking them out of harm's way right before he begins his judgment. For example, when the lord poured out his wrath upon the city of Sodom he could have protected lot and his family amidst the fire and brimstone just like he had protected Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego amidst the fiery furnace but they would have seen the destruction so instead, they were carried out of the city and were told not to look back, and immediately after that, fire and brimstone rained down from heaven. And before he even began his judgment upon the nation of Egypt the lord had already prepared a place for his people in the land of goshen away from all of the destruction and completely out of sight. And the very same day that Noah and his family entered the Ark the rain began to fall. Here we can clearly see how protective the lord was of his people, and the pre-tribulation rapture proves that he's still as protective today as he was yesterday. The removal of God's people by this spiritual Ark is surely going to Usher in the tribulation period that time of wrath, and we the people of God are not appointed unto wrath because we hadn't rejected the lord. The tribulation period is a time of God-appointed wrath upon all the people of this world who have rejected the lord, and upon the Jewish people for rejecting, and Crucifying him. This is why the tribulation period is also called the time of jacobs troubles. I believe that the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is more consistent with Scripture than the other.
@@garvinsmith4555 Thanks for your thoughtful response. I definitely can see the thought process behind the scriptural references. There's certainly more I could go into, and I'm sure you could to, in order to unpack the whole concept for a pre or post-trib rapture, but RUclips comment section isn't the place for that. So, I'll just leave it at this, the Lord knows the way it will unfold. We have assumptions and ideas based on all kinds of verses and parallel examples, but ultimately none of us know. My hope is in Christ, as I know yours is too, so for that, we are both brothers in the Lord and we can laugh and hug after it's all over and we see our mistakes melt away in the love of His perfect presence! God bless you! Let's reach the lost, stand strong in times of trouble and pray that God will keep us strong in him until the return of our Lord. :)
I'm now on the post-trib side... There is just way more Biblical evidence for it. Sure, the pre-trib sounds amazing and I'd definitely prefer it. But, I just see Scripture screaming post. And I am comforted that the good Lord Jesus has protected us from the wrath upon the wicked. And in His strength to endure through whatever the antichrist will throw at us!
The odds of surviving the post tribulation are about 1%. It's designed to rid the earth of Satan and his followers. You don't want to be around that group of people. They will be hunting Christians for sport if you left behind. Plus if you do manage to survive you will enter eternity as a mortal, instead of having a glorified body. It will be much more fun to just walk through a wall instead of having to use a door the old fashion way. Come on up to heaven with us on the pre-trib call and have a much better time at the feast. Plus you will get a cool crown and your assignment for which part of the earthly mortals you will rule and reign over with Christ before we come back!
Biblical evidence you and other postys make God a liar. We are not appointed to wrath but salvation. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Holy Spirit removed before tribulation. If you have the Holy Spirit and He leaves you, He is a liar. He said He'd never leave us nor forsake us... the harpazo(rapture) is a byproduct of the cross, not a stand alone event. what was in the cup Jesus asked to be passed from Him? don't listen to what you're told by Mat 7: 21-23 people.
@@mfitz19 People still get saved in the tribulation. And the means of salvation is the same now as it will be in the tribulation: grace through faith from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. You can not come to know Christ without the drawing of the Holy Spirit. The dwelling of the Holy Spirit is the assurance of knowing you are truly saved. Many people get saved in the tribulation (Rev 7:9-14). In 2 Thess 2, it says that the Holy Spirit has the job to restrain evil now in this time. But once the tribulation begins, He will no longer restrain evil. It does not mean the Holy Spirit will not be present. The Holy Spirit is not removed in the tribulation.
@@marymary86943 That's correct. The fruit that is going to come out of the Great Tribulation is unbelievable. More will be saved during the Tribulation than at any time in history. God actually uses that time to draw so many more people unto Himself!
Amen even Jesus say’s it inJohn 17:15-16 “I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”
Pax Cordova, Jesus was praying that about the disciples with him in John 17, then he prayed for everyone else, and that those who would believe because of their ministries would be one. In other words, Jesus did not pray for them to be taken with him at his Ascension so they could establish the church. This is not about the rapture.
Dr.Michael Brown when I became a new Christian I was sent away to a program for Christians and it just didn't click naturally. I would say things like no this doesn't make sense this cant be. I believed this on a natural spiritual standpoint in the beginning walk of my Christian life. So you just confirming this and backing it, brings me such joy and spiritual rest. Beyond I thank you. Peace and blessings to you from our Lord Christ Jesus.
Very good and accurate discussion. I also believed in the pre-tribulation rapture when I was initially saved in December 1971 because that's what I was taught when I attended a Baptist Church and a Church of God of Prophecy Church locally. I was watching Pat Robertson in 1973 and he stated the Lord comes back for His church after the tribulation of those days and I started studying the Bible to prove him wrong. By 1974 I became convinced that he was telling the truth and now believe the Lord does come back for His born-again believers after the tribulation of those days at the sound of the 7th trumpet. The devil doesn't just try to get Christians to sin again to regain control over us, but he also promotes "False Doctrines" in Churches. Also I personally believe that some Church Denomination Leaders realize they are teaching false doctrines, but they do not want to lose members teaching the truth and also don't want to admit they made a mistake. Every Church organization that teaches the truth about the rapture occurring at the 7th trumpet usually has a smaller crowd as a lot of people want to hear things that are pleasant and avoid things that make them feel uncomfortable. Jesus is fully capable of providing safety for us and it's evident when you read Revelation chapter 12 verses 13 to 17 that some will be provided nourishment and safety from the devil for forty-two months which would be the time of the great tribulation. Some will survive the tribulation and be gathered by Angels at the 7th trumpet and as the Bible teaches some will die a martyrs death before Jesus arrives.
I used to believe in a pre tribulation rapture. I know all the Bible verses and the Jewish wedding, Noah's ark correlation, etc. But one day I decided to read the Bible without the filter of the pre trib theory and I couldn't find one verse that supports a secret appearing of Jesus. The second coming is the day of the Lord. I think pre tribbers really extrapolate verses to fit their narrative. I also don't believe God would abandon people in their greatest time of need. We're here to be a light and share the gospel during the tribulation.
Cindy Metcalf, how do you interpret Luke 21:36-38 where Jesus warned everyone to repent from sin, to watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to escape all the things coming to pass and stand before him?
followers of Christ are not appointed to wrath. there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. if the Holy Spirit is removed before the tribulation and He leaves us here, then He is a liar. He said He'd never leave us nor forsake us. the harpazo(rapture) is a byproduct of the cross, not a stand alone event. Mat24...His ANGELS gather...1Thes4...HE HIMSELF harpazo's those found in Him. Go deeper sister.
@@mfitz19 then perhaps the Holy Spirit was never the restrainer? (The restrainer is never specified, man interpreted that the Holy Spirit was the restrainer based off of 2 thess 2.) The wrath and the tribulation are two separate events. The tribulation happens before the bowls of wrath are poured, but the second coming is after the tribulation for the WORLD, but BEFORE the wrath (we’re included here because God is testing our faith). People will turn from their faith because of this kind of misconception. Also, throughout ALL of history, man (including Christians!) has perished for his faith. And so many will be made into martyrs in the end times, just as they have throughout the ages. Just as revelation says. (Rev 17:6) It calls for the faith and endurance of the saints (Rev 13:10;14:12), which is God’s people: US. The believers. Those that choose to follow Jesus. We will eventually perish for our faith, and few will be left to be raptured, but they will be and those will be taken up with Jesus just before the wrath. During the tribulation, there will be the 7 trumpets, and at the final trump, we will ascend (1 Corinthians 15:52). I know it’s not fun to think about, but everyone dies at some point. Diabetes, heart disease, Cancer, murder, accident, torture even (nazi Germany, slavery, prisoners in countries like N Korea, China, etc) the list goes on. We absolutely deserve death, but will be raised as Jesus was, once it’s over. Godspeed.
Thank you! I never did get the Rapture thing.. It always seemed so artificial.. And as I read scripture, I could never see it.. All I saw was the Second Coming, and that we reign with Christ a thousand years: Good to know I'm not the only one who believes that.. Sometimes there is a sadness from sitting through the references of pre-trib teachings, and knowing you better not say a word, because you could be judged.. Affirmation can be edifying.. Take care..
Jesus talks MANY times about the snatching away of the church, and even stating He will come BACK again for the final wrath, at the END of the 7 with the saints who were “caught up”. I truly believe 2024-2027 the 7 will start. 2033 “33” is an important number of Jesus. So 10 years MAX until the final Wrath. Rapture will happen from 2024-2027-2030. A general timeframe including both Pre and Mid trib beliefs.
@@Itsgameover4u I disagree with your preconceived belief.. One could be taken by sin, sickness, or persecution, and the other will be left behind to do the work of God.. The work of God is to believe in the one God has sent: Jesus Christ the Righteous.. When we believe in Him, we will obey Him.. We cannot obey Him, if we don't know Him. But those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, will receive the Comforter, and He will teach His people..
@@Itsgameover4u I TRULY believed it was going to happen sometime between 2014-17. I was so wrong. Now l dont believe in any time or day, bec lve been so disappointed. Someday though, it will happen. Gby!! ☘
Jesus said that no servant is greater than their master. Jesus was crucified and suffered extreme persecution. What makes believers think that they can escape from the great tribulation is beyond me?
It's true that we won't escape from the GT; we'll be here for it. Our role will be the same as always, which is to be instruments in God's hands to evangelize and, importantly, to assist new Christians as they "grow up into the fullness of Christ" as Paul said. And yes, many of us WILL die, though we'll be protected from the direct impact of the judgements themselves - those judgments are to "try them that dwell upon the earth" as Christ told us in Rev. 3:10. So the judgments are being used to draw all nonbelievers, Jew and gentile alike, to Christ. My primary point is this: God always uses His people to accomplish His will on earth. And He prepares His people beforehand for the work they must do. So we see this with the people of Israel on the whole (the wilderness), and with Moses, Joshua, David, Joseph, the original disciples and Paul. There're others, but you see the point. God wants to prepare you and I for what's coming so that we 1) don't fall away 2) hear clearly from Him so we can be physically protected from the judgements and 3) can be used by Him during the terrible time which is very soon upon us. What dispensation does is puts the Christian somewhat at ease, leaving the Body of Christ on the whole fully unprepared for what's coming, believing that they'll get a magic carpet ride out of here while new Christians suffer, with no one to help them through the fire. It's not how God works, and scripture assures us that God isn't going to work that way now. Time for you and I to get ready, God's way!
I like it. Dr. Brown's correct - we're not secretly "zapped out" while everyone else on earth suffers. Rather, we're here as coworkers with God for the Great Harvest during that terrible time.
So the righteous should suffer punishment along with the unrighteous on earth for a terrible 7 years? If we're on earth what need for the two witnesses to come on scene?
@@thelionofjudah77u82 We don't suffer from the judgements, only the persecution. We're not told much about the 2 witnesses, but it seems that they're at least a portion of the church.
@@kenklein9228 We suffer only the persecution? So none of the wars,violence, famine,extreme weather and temperature events along with volcanic activity and tsunamis won't affect all of the people who are on earth during the tribulation? What we are told about the two witnesses is that they will cause worldwide plagues as often as they wish for 3.5 years. Wouldn't this affect all that are on the earth during the tribulation?
@@thelionofjudah77u82 Let's look at what scripture tells us. The war, likely WW3, will kill 1/3 of the world's population - that's the largest death figure we're given in Revelation. More people die, but it doesn't come close to the number killed in the war. We see also that the war will affect 1/3 of the plants and trees. Those are the direct affects of the war. That's what we're told. Revelation 3:10 is clear about this. So is Luke 21:36. We can escape the things to come IF we're being led by the Lord in it. He'll lead us to the places on earth that are safe, at that time, from the direct impacts of the judgements. Not until the bowls do we see the entire world being impacted all at once, and we're out of here immediately before the bowls.
@@kenklein9228 I have taken a look at scripture and scripture shows the saints in heaven celebrating salvation and redemption in chapters 4-5 of Revelation and later in chapter 12 before the Antichrist is revealed on earth. Scripture also shows that we are not appointed to wrath and tribulation is 7 years worth of wrath.
Wow! I couldn't have put it better myself that's exactly the conclusions I have come up with just from reading the word I also used to believe the pre-trib because I had read the Left behind series but when I started reading the word on my own after the Lord saved me it became very clear that that was not correct as well as many other things that certain denominations teach, thank you Holy Spirit for illuminating us and having Mercy on us and showing us your truth
They decieved you and you let them with an asinine U-Turn rapture nonsense. 2nd Thess. 2:3. Not to mention the KJV changed "The Departure" to "a falling away after 1500 years. Isa. 26:19 the resurrection of the dead. Isa. 26:20 we meet HIM in the clouds (1st. Thess. 4:17), hid in many mansions, (Jn. 14:3) a while "little season" (Rev. 6:11) while the indignation passes (70th week, Great Tribulation) Isa. 26:21, HE "JESUS" leaves his place (in heaven) to judge the inhabitants on earth.
@@rickhuntling7338 thanks for the insults I guess, anyhow you obviously are not wanting to be a berean and that's your prerogative I do believe you're a brother but the Lord says that depending on what you build with is what you will be rewarded with or loss of them. I guess you will soon see and maybe learn the hard way and have a rude awakening When you will be here to see all the events that the Lord warns about. And you say that I have been deceived and I let them but nobody taught me other than the Holy Spirit reading his holy word that we will go through the tribulation I don't believe we will suffer as the unbelievers will but we will be persecuted in the tribulation and many of us will die
@@savedwretch8711 YOUR FEELINGS TOLD YOU? Is that why you're not Berean using scripture to answer the scriptures I supplied. "Let no man decieve you in any way" is what you agree with by Brown saying "a falling away comes first". If you were Berean you would have searched the scriptures to see the KJV changed "the departure" to a falling away. Even removing the definite artical to make the change work. Every translation was "The Departure" aka "our gathering together" before the son of predition be revealed. I build on truth and will be rewarded with the truth, not a tinkle up my spine to tickle itchy ears. Isa. 26:19 Resurrection of the dead. Isa. 26:20 we goto him "caught up together in the clouds; 1st Thess. 4:17. Hidden in chambers "in my FATHER's house are many mansions" Jn. 14:1-4, while the indignation (7 yr. Great Tribulation) passes, "little season" Rev. 6:11. Isa. 26:21 HE leaves HIS place in heaven to judge the inhabitants on earth bring us with HIM, Jude 14, Zech. 14:5. 1st Thess. 5:9 says we're not appointed to wrath, why do you say we are? Why are saints receiving wedding garments under the altar in heaven if more need to suffer a martyr's death in the little season? Did you notice Brown offered very little, if any Post Trib scriptures but only put his spin on the verses that clearly preach a Pre-Trib rapture. No truth in Brown the Benny Hinn, Jim Baker sell out.
Thank you! I've never been able to see the passage in 1 Thessalonians as ANYTHING but the second coming. It makes sense to me that believers WILL be here through the Tribulation. If all believers are gone, who will help those "left behind" to find salvation? There is a reference about the end times that speaks about God putting a seal on the foreheads of believers protecting them from the locust/scorpion creatures. I've wondered about this. Why would believers need to be protected if everyone has been raptured already? Thank you so much for sharing this information.
Who'll help the people during the tribulation, I would say the two witnesses if not that the 144000 Jews or the angel that goes out yelling in heaven saying to repent. I would say that would really work. But I have a question who is the people during the millennium reign if the church is taken with Christ and the rest are killed with the antichrist then?? Right?😊
The following proves you are correct. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@SpotterVideo agreed, Matthew 24: 29-31 the word trumpet, 1corinthians 15:50-52 the words last trumpet, 1 thessalonians 4:13-17 trumpet. We who endure till the end the same shall be saved, I believe the teaching of the pre tribulation rapture will be the reason for the falling away of many a believer, cause they were taught they would escape. This will demand patience in suffering and holding to the Truth. By the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.. Bless you and yours ❤️
@@brianpeterson5559 Man I'm so sick of that logic that pretrib believers would fall away because they had incorrect doctrine. Even if the pretrib theory is wrong and we go thru tribulation we still know the Bible is real and Jesus is real. Matthew 24 is the second coming which takes place after the rapture revealed by Jesus, the rapture which takes place before tribulation was revealed by Paul(1 Corinthians 15:51-52). He calls the rapture a mystery because it was unknown meaning he is not speaking of Matthew 24 events. At the rapture we go up to heaven, at the second coming we return with the Lord to earth.
@@SpotterVideo Did you happen to notice in 1 thessalonians 5:9 Paul says that are not appointed to wrath. Tribulation is 7 years worth of wrath on earth. Revelation 12 along with chapters 4-5 actually prove the pretrib rapture instead. 12:5 the manchild is the church being caught up to God. Revelation 2:26-27 confirms that we the manchild/overcomers will receive power to rule nations with an iron rod. Revelation 12:9-10 as the war in heaven takes place the dragon and angel are cast out and the saints are shown celebrating salvation as those on earth are given woe because the devil has come down to them. Revelation 12:17 speaks of the remnant , the remnant are those who missed the rapture but come to Christ during the tribulation. These are the persecuted saints in the great tribulation shown in revelation 7
@@thelionofjudah77u82 Yes. I did notice that. However, the Greek word for "wrath", and the Greek word for "tribulation" are two different words, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Do you understand that the "man-child" is Christ, and He was caught up to heaven during the first century? Read Psalm 2 to see what the 'son" does to the flawed pottery with the rod of Iron. He does not correct it. ================= Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
Feast of trumpets(1st day of the 7th Jewish month) occurs just before the feast of Tabernacle - as churches ignores the feasts to prepare His people of His return, man made teachings as the pre-trib rapture occurs to tickle people's ears and for increasing tithing by keeping the audience larger than a "bad news" such as a mid or post trib rapture
@@bethelshiloh God allowed the dominance of pagan calendar systems because His people adopted the gentiles way. In another word, using Jewish calendar system is meaningless because OT scriptures keep on warning how corrupt that Jews became as they were indistinguishable from pagans. Christians are the modern day Jews (Revelation book show Christ as bridegroom and His gentile believers are the bride compared to the Jews already as the wife rather than bride of God as in Jeremiah 3:8 as northern israel wants a divorce and southern Judah lived like adulteresses) and Christians are living like OT Jews which the prophets warned them to turn back to God. Look at Christian pastors encouraging Christmas when it is a lie (not Christ birth) and dressing in Easter bunny uniform and participated in egg hunt and all types of strange ways to gain the love of the world. Yet the pastors rebuke those who tithe less than 10% and have a sense of arrogance thinking they are ordained by God. Nothing surprise to me after reading history books on the reformation movement as they were protesting over indulgence collection and taxes rather than Catholic rosary prayer and other idolatry and refusal to encourage iconoclasm (which Old testament OT prophets and good kings participated in iconoclasm)
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
Actually if we go by what Paul said its like this: 1/ APOSTASY 2/ REVEALING of that Man of Sin 3/ THEN the COMING of Jesus 4/ THEN the RESURRECTION 5/ THEN the Gathering of the Church to Meet Jesus (The Rapture) 6/ THEN Jesus destroys that Man of Sin! 7/ THEN we will all be With Jesus Forever! None of this Pre Trib Garbage!
What scripture do you find that supports that, because the MAJORITY of Christendom u/stands the rapture to PRECEDE the tribulation period. I know there's no silver bullet for any given position, but what passage/passages do you believe help to make a solid case for what it is you just said?
@@1thessalonians472 I heartily disagree, because it can be pointed out that the early church leaders/fathers *DID* u/stand o/wise. But regardless, do we rely on "apostolic father's writings", or is the closed canon to be our guide for faith and practice?
@@Kman. The Apostolic fathers were the students of the apostles. They were the ones the writings we call the Bible were addressed to. Their teachings are no different than the apostles themselves. If you believe that God loves you more than those that faced persecution on the 2nd century who traveled the world on foot and by ocean to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, then you're exhibiting the nature of man which is an egocentric one. There is no pre-tribulation rapture. It wasn't even a idea until 1830.
I think it's important to know the difference between tribulation or trouble in one's life, and The great tribulation an event lasting 7years. Also remember that the great tribulation is an event specifically for the people of Israel to accept Jesus the Messiah who they rejected by their forefathers.
That is not biblical. Please show me where the tribulation is for the Jews. I know we are grafted into Israel. The idea of there’s the church and then there’s the Jews is a new idea that came with the dispensational theology Which comes from the doctrines of been not from the pages of the Bible. Yes they used Bible verses twist it.
@@jeffmcbride6766 You are correct that the tribulation isn’t only for Jews entirely. At the beginning both Jews and Gentiles may turn to the Lord. However, Romans 11 says “that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:25 So, this lets us know that there will be a Jewish awakening after the full Gentile set of believers are come into the Kingdom. Revelation 11:13 says that when the great earthquake happens Jerusalem will repent and give Glory to the Lord. Friend, the Bride will not go through the tribulation period (whether they were born Jews or Gentiles). But the Bible makes it clear that unbelievers will go through it
@@shalombereshiyth I thought the fullness of the gentiles was more like when all who become saved are saved and we are grafted into Israel when we get saved. And there’s no church on this side and Jews on the other. The veil was torn in two. That’s all dispensational doctrine the way I see it
@@jeffmcbride6766 there’s no difference when we are in Christ. Those who were born Jews and born Gentiles are all one in Christ. However, there is a difference when some of us have accepted Christ and some of us haven’t. We’re all (Jews and Christians) in the same family (olive) but tree but different family members. And yes, the fullness of the Gentiles is when the last Gentile comes into Christ. I’m not so much concerned with the title of dispensationalism. The eras are general periods but there are no hard fast rules. Some Gentiles came to the Lord through Judaism before Christ came to earth, but Gentiles were saved on a large scale through Christ. Some Jews have come to Christ in this era, but they will come on a large scale during the tribulation period. The blindness will be lifted
@@shalombereshiyth I didn’t not see any scriptural evidence of a pre trib rapture. On the contrary the scripture definitely states we will be going through the tribulation. I used to be a dispensationalist but it should really be called a suppositionalmost.
Dr. Brown is a very gifted and powerful teaching. Ultimately somethings we will have to live through. However, I agree with Dr. Brown. The important thing is to remain in prayer. The closer we get the clearer things will become.
@Shaun Anderson be conforted with these words. I've done the research and Brown is still a blind Jew. He quotes Isa. 26:20,21 leaving out Isa. 26:19 where the Resurrection preceeds the hid in many mansions while the idignation passes then JESUS leaves his place "heaven" to judge the inhabitants of the earth. Some how in Browns theory we are raptured first, go up in the clouds to greet the King in the air make a U-turn then stuffed in a bunker, LOL.
@Shaun Anderson2 The Great Tribulation is shortened to 3 1/2 years (Dan 7:25+Rev 12:6+14). Everything is fulfilled in 3 1/2 years (Dan 25:7; Rev 10:7+11:15-18;; 16:17).Yeshua comes back after the 3 1/2 year Tribulation (Mat 24:29-31), when He sends His angels to gather HIS elect, the NT Saints (1.Peter 1:2)/
Many will try to take our joy away by teaching a post trib rapture. I don't know how anyone could read the Bible and not know the rapture is definitely Pretrib. Elders are already wearing their crowns in Revelation 4 prior to the opening of the 1st seal. We all go to the bema seat after the rapture to receive our rewards. The entire tribulation is God's wrath. It is Jesus who opens the seal that starts the tribulation. We are told we are not appointed to Gods wrath. The only ones to suffer Satan's wrath are those who won't accept him as their Messiah and won't take his mark. Luke 21:36 Pray to be found worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS. Notice he doesn't say some or half of these things, but ALL. These are just a few references to the pretrib . It is very clear.
Dr. Michael, I do appreciate your talk show that has become very popular and has handled much of the chatter in the church dialog quite well. Appreciate your labor in Christ. You mentioned one person that freaked out and to imply that all persons understanding the scripture that Jesus comes and Gathers his bride prior to the Great Tribulation has the same mindset that is a Salvation issue is absurd. What is important is that we clearly understand what the scriptures do proclaim. You are aware of the fact that 50 % of the church is in disagreement. I believe they will Always be true. ie. If a person is truly a foolish virgin, they do not know they are. It's called deception. If they truly had understanding they surely would have repented.. agree👍? I would love to be able to sit down with you and go through the scriptures and share with you and share with you what the Lord has shown me since the age of seven and then at full conversion at 16 years old in 1976. The Lord granted to me 3 open Visions in my lifetime, along with literally thousands of experiences as we all do in Christ. I believe the Holy Spirit upon opening the scriptures will clearly unequivocally, undeniably, as a matter of fact! That he what bring you to love sherance of the scriptures of the love of the father bet he would never brutalize the Lord's wife just before the marriage supper! The bride of Christ was chosen called and blessed. There are hundreds of millions of saints during the Great Tribulation that will suffer because they we're not invited bar called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. Not everyone that goes to heaven is the bride of Christ. The Saints in the Great Tribulation washed their own robes in the blood of the Lamb. The bride was given fine Linens clean and white! Trust me brother. Let's sit down and reason together in the scriptures . The life experiences we're not all wonderful holy experiences. There were many battles along the way to endure. Lauren has directed me to put in book form what he has revealed to me since the age of seven in the past 47 years in Christ and have never left the opinion or the belief that the church would suffer the Great Tribulation. Offhand I can think of 28 scriptures that clearly tell us that it is the foolish virgins/ Christians they go to the Great Tribulation and his bride is caught up to be with him and so ever be with the Lord came out of the second coming the physical coming comet is clearly not the catching up of the church or our gathering. The second coming comes with judgement and destruction and the Lord does not go back up into heaven. But rather returns with the angels and the Saints dressed in fine linen clean and white riding white horses Revelation 19:7-9 Fine Linens Clean and White Rev.19:12-15 We find the bride dressed in fine linen cleaning light as described above and now riding alongside Jesus with the angels dressed in fine linen cleaning White as that is the appropriate garmin's for heaven. Jesus returns to the Earth placing his foot on the Mount of Olives destroying all the Wicked the false prophet the Antichrist and in Matthew 24 it says one would be taken and one would be left. They asked the Lord where will they be taken? Jesus replied where the Eagles are gathered together. Also in Revelation the Eagles are gathered together for the great supper of the Lord to Feast on the kings of the Earth and all the wicked. Matthew 24 113. The five wise virgins were ready and prepared for the bridegroom the Lord himself their lights were burning bright and their vessel was full of oil they were taken to the marriage supper and the marriage door was. Shot the five foolish came pounding on the door open up to us! The Lord's response I do not know you. But Lord surely you remember us you know us! We cast out devils in your name we pray in your name we did many wonderful works in your name. Depart I do not know you. Luke 12 3536 in regards to Jesus,. He admonishes the foolish virgins. Saying, when I return from the wedding! Make sure your lights are burning bright. And I will receive you at this time. This time is the second coming. Matthew 24 is a description of the second coming not the Gathering of the Saints where we are caught up in the air to meet the Lord and so ever be with him. When he comes to Earth there is no returning back to Heaven at least for not another Thousand Years. There was much more I have to share with you. Please feel free to reach out to me or I will contact you in some fashion. As I will not give my phone number out online. I'll have every crackerjack calling me for the next Thousand Years haha. God bless talk to you soon And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself. And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure. And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty. Revelation 19:12-15 ASV bible.com/bible/12/rev.19.12-15.ASV
Thank you for making me feel like I'm not crazy either. I had a very similar experience, where I was indoctrinated with the pre-trib rapture well before I had a firm grasp of Scripture. Then after reading the Bible for myself, the entire doctrine fell apart quite dramatically. I really have a problem with people thinking that they can have their own interpretations of Scripture. This is the work of the enemy to confuse and confound us. The Bible is not a buffet of interpretations that we are at liberty to just pick without consequence. R.C. Sproul said it best..."there are many applications, but only one right interpretation of a given text."
@lucasmcdonald873 you got a very loose grib on scripture. How about you produce all those Post-Trib verses for us in your grasp. Isa. 26:19-21, 2nd Thess. 2:1-7, Rev. 3:10, 6:11,12:5, 11,12, Jude 14, Zech. 14:5, Jn. 14:1-4, Mat. 24:31-43 all are pre-trib proof text.
@@jeffmcbride6766 twisting of scripture? That be you. Twist a post trib out of Isa. 26:19-21 or Rev. 6:11. In Mat. 24:31 where do the angles gather the saints from? My bible says heaven. Are you going to twist heaven to mean earth? Where do the dead saints that overcame satan by the blood of the Lamb dwell in Rev. 12:12? My bible says heaven and we're having a party. What are you going to twist it into? Howabout you suppying solid biblical text for a post trip rapture. So far all you've supplied is your opinion and presuppositions of you a man. So man up and give reason why you believe. Book, chapter and verse please with your reason.
@@rickhuntling7338 sorry but your belief system is full of suppositions. This is so silly. Luke 17 as it was in the days of Noe so shall the coming of the son of man be. In the examples Lot and Noe
So both Lot and Noe are examples mentioned in Luke 17 where the judgement of God and preservation of the righteous happened on the same day. So shall it be at the coming if the son of man. Anyway take care
I do like a lot of what Dr Brown has to say; however, he missed the mark on this one. The rapture is not a “coming” at all. 1 Thessalonians 4 says: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We are going to meet the Lord in the air. He does NOT come to the earth at that point. Jude says that the Lord will come with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgement. In the rapture we go to Him. In the second coming, we come with Him. The scripture says clearly at this second coming His feet will split the mount of olives. Zechariah 14:4 (KJV) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Also, Revelations 3 says He will keep us from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world to try them that dwell therein. If we are saved (Acts 2:38) we will escape the coming tribulation
@@shalombereshiyth No bout adout it~~~:) The rapture takes place in the AIR, whereas at the 2nd advent, He returns to EARTH! At the rapture, we rise to MEET Christ...He needs no assistance of angels to gather us!
@@shalombereshiyth The Lord comes in the clouds (erchomai), why is that not a coming? I agree, it is a short coming, going back with the raptured to Heaven for the Wedding (Rev 19:6-11), which happens at the time of Armageddon. Then He comes back with them as an army the same day (Luke 27:29+30), the day of the Lord (Zech 14:7), Paul called that day His parousia, that is a visible coming, advent, return at His 2. coming together with our gathering unto Him (2.Thess 2:1). It is not a secrete coming some 7 years before Jesus said He comes in the clouds (Mat 24:29). The Rapture will come at His parousia as the bible says and not at a time created by man! There is only a coming of the Lord in the clouds in the bible, which is the Rapture after the Great Tribulation. Therefore only Post-trib is scriptural. There is also no resurrection of the NT Saints before the last 7 years, which is nowhere called THE Tribulation, which is the 3 1/2 years Great Tribulation.
Yes... finally someone who speaks truth. There are Soo many verses to support this. Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 but specifically v1. Neither of these suggest we are there for the wrath, but we are taken up before God pours out his wrath. Reading the scriptures...you'll never see a secret, Pre-trib rapture. Thank you Dr. Brown. God Bless...📜✝️💕
Michelle, if the rapture and the second coming of Jesus are one event without a separation of the 7 years or 3.5 years, can you explain who will be the people who populate the earth during the Millenium? Keep in mind that those who are caught up with the Lord Jesus Christ and the dead who rise from the graves, will be transformed with incorruptible resurrected bodies. All the Christians alive during the Second Coming are going to be transformed, leaving only the wicked on the earth for the Lord to destroy in the battle of Armageddon. When we Christians return with the Lord our bodies will be different and not like they are now. So all the Christians who go into the Millenium will not be able to reproduce. Yet the bible says at the end of the Millenium the Lord will loosen Satan to go out into the world to deceive the people who inhabit the earth. If the people who are inhabiting the earth are able to be deceived, where did they come from? So it is my understanding that these people were those born to those who became Christians during the Tribulation. Thus the rapture of the believers would then have to take place prior to the Second Coming, then during the 7 year Tribulation people would become saved and it would be those people who populated the earth because their bodies have not been resurrected, only those who were caught up in the rapture. So I am looking for an answer on how it is possible to reproduce if our bodies are no longer geared for reproduction after we are all resurrected? The Post Tribulation rapture does not take this into account so I was wondering if you could explain this glitch in the post tribulation thinking. Thanks in advance for trying to answer this one.
@@truthanderror1038 theres a verse in the bible saying "For the sake of the elect those days will be cut short" this isnt talking about people who wre saved after the rapture this is talking about the people stood their ground during the tribulation of those days
@@truthanderror1038 I'm with you on that one! I would also add this: In Revelation 20 John sees the souls of those who were martyred because of their testimony and because they did not take the mark. They were beheaded. They are in heaven....AFTER the Lord has returned at the 2nd coming....after He has killed the antichrist....after even the devil is locked up in the pit..... the martyrs are STILL in heaven and THEN John says that at that time they "lived again" (they get their new bodies) and they go into the Kingdom to reign with Jesus. BUT... if the rapture and the 2nd Coming were ONE event and it had already occurred, then why are their souls still in heaven???? Paul makes it very clear that the dead in Christ RISE FIRST...then those who are alive and remain get caught up. The scene in Revelation 20 fits perfectly with a Pre Trib Rapture. Also there is no imminent return of Jesus in the Post Trib view. They are looking for the antichrist and the abomination that causes desolation....they are NOT looking for Jesus. For a post tribber they always know that they have at least 7 years to wait. This is why Michael Brown keeps referring to being ready for death at any moment. Death can be imminent but the return of Jesus is not. So just toss out all the verses where Jesus keeps telling us to "be watching and be on the alert". And as usual you can always depend on the post trib folks to emphasize their "straw man" argument... that anyone who looks for a pre trib rapture is "an escapist" that does not believe we as Christians will ever endure any hardship or tribulation in this life. What a straw man!!! I don't know of ANY pre trib people that think we won't endure tribulation and trials in this life. Tell that to Christians living in Iran right now! We just rest in knowing that we are not appointed to God's wrath thanks to the cross.
Good opening when you say this is not a topic to divide believers. Rather it should lead us to re- examine our end time theology. I Am still more inclined to adopt the pre-tribulation rapture.
I never bought into the Pre-Tribulation theology. If you compare Matthew 24:29-31 to 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, they refer to the same event. When Paul wrote, “By the Lord’s own word”, he must have referred to Matthew 24.
stallion, God revealed the rapture mystery thru Paul, so Jesus would only have spoken about it using the veiled language of things like parables and metaphors. But Jesus was speaking clearly in Matt 24:29-31, so it cannot possibly be about the rapture.
@@stallion66, I am saying the rapture was a hidden mystery before God revealed it thru Paul in plain language, so Jesus would only have talked about it, if at all, using the veiled language of things like parables and metaphors. Therefore, Matt 24:29-31, where Jesus talked about coming after the tribulation and gathering saints, cannot be about the-then still hidden-rapture mystery.
Dr. Brown is not reading the scriptures. Isa. 26:19:21 Brown says we are resurrected hidden on earth to suffer through the Great Tribulation. That's an assinine argument, why not remain with the LORD in spirit in heaven if it's Post Trib. Isa. 26:19 is the dead resurected. Isa. 26:20; We goto JESUS, hidden in chambers ("many mansions") while the Great Tribulation passes. Isa. 26:21; CHRIST leaves HIS place to judge the inhabitants on earth. Jude 14 and Zech. 14:5 says HE brings the Saints with him.
I'm not asserting that there are no 'dispensations', only that Dispensationalism perverts scripture! The idea that Christ offered the Jews a physical kingdom - perversion; the idea that Christ and Paul taught separate gospels - perversion; the idea that the Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth before a 'pre Trib rapture - perversion; the pre Trib rapture itself - perversion.
@@kenklein9228 2nd Thess. 2:7 is "he" the body of CHRIST is removed in "the Departure" , in harmony with Isa. 26:19,20, Jn. 14:1-4, Rev. 6:11, 12:5,10-12. Your the one that destorts the scriptures. The HOLY SPIRIT is on earth during the 70th week. 70 weeks are determined for Israel and Jerusalem and only one item was completed. After 49 years from 454 bc the vision and prophecy was sealed with the completion of the Tanakh in 405 bc. Isreal needs to set aside the Torah covenant, bring in CHRIST's everlasting righteousness and Anoint the most Holy One of Israel their king. For almost 2000 years they remain in supernatural slumber a cut off branch. For HIS glory HE brought them back into the land. HE will have the Islamic dragon wage war till Israel is surrounded ready to be annihilated then they will call on HIS name. All Israel will be saved.
Feast of trumpets is important because 7 trumpets are blown before bowls of wrath in Revelation. Bowls of wrath is related to Great Trib because it is required before the return of Christ.
@@TheMistysFavs They are the feasts of the Lord (Lev 23). Do you belong to the Lord, He has set the moed (times), Rome has changed that with pagan times, is that right? Not an issue of salvation, but of truth.
Who could have literally believed what Revelation said about the whole world rejoicing over the death of the Two Witnesses, the whole world watching their dead bodies in Jerusalem? Not until we had television that could transmit what was happening across the world nearly instantaneously.
Yes. Not until 1964 was the world-wide orbital communication satellite system completed. The world needed to wait until 1948 for the fulfillment of Israel as a nation, and 1964 before "every eye to see" the two prophets rise from the dead!
@@alongcamejones309 May I ask where you get this interpretation from? 2nd Question: Do you believe, as the Catholic Church would have you believe, that Revelation is primarily symbolic and really can't be understood. 3rd Question: When a particular passage of the New Testament is presented as literal, is it valid to consider it symbolic?
@@alongcamejones309 Up until the 20th century, the section in Revelation would be considered impossible even as opposed to just some kind of nonsensical, symbolic rant by John on LSD or whatever. Just a bit of sarcasm there. The world could not possibly see the dead bodies of two people lying in the streets of Jerusalem, maybe not until the 1960's. Now we know better. God does not choose to reveal the identity of the Two Witnesses. The power of the two witnesses and what they will do isn't new. You must know that. It's already happened before. The tip I get from you is that you believe that the Two Witnesses are the Law and Prophets. That's conjecture a theory that probably arose prior to satellite tv.
God doesn't give the same gifts to everyone in the body of Christ, so it's untrue that everyone can just pray and read the word of God and understand mysteries like the rapture.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (Acts 2:36)
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
im pre-trib and i love and respect the brethren in Christ, even those who have a different view. Both sides can justify their stance, and both sides can critique each others stance, its not something to fight over.
@@Mike65809 The Snatching away (which we call the rapture) is not the 2nd coming when the dead are raised. Totally separate events. Would you like a link to a video? its not to convince you but rather, to show you how we believe it will pan out. p.s. i said pre-trib
@@Xbot4Life Well if you've read 1 Thess 4-5 you know that Paul does say the snatching away happens at the resurrection. Isn't that what Paul is saying? The dead in Christ rise first and we who are alive are caught up with them...??
@@Mike65809 Here is the video: ruclips.net/video/Gt0WA6qkbQE/видео.html&ab_channel=DTBM Watch that and you see what I believe, as i hinted at in my original post, you are free to not agree, it doesnt shake my faith so i have no desire to argue or debate it. Im not saying you do, im just stating my position on this. I dont get why people argue or get into long debates on this when more then likely they will be dead before it happens like everyone in the past, just makes no sense to me. Hope it helps.
@@Xbot4Life Okay thanks. But do know the rapture IS the 2nd coming and that is what the Bible teaches. The reason why people believe differently is because they bring ideas to the Biblical passages that are not in the context of that passage. In other words, they don't let the text speak for itself. They are leading people astray. Thanks and God bless.
All I got to say is be a Berean. If anybody tells you you’re going thru the tribulation they are wrong.Just go to any on line concordance and type in “In Christ”.I know it’s wrong to hate people but I surely dislike anyone who dismisses the rapture.Putting the Body of Christ thru the tribulation is like Moses striking the Rock twice. “Nuff Said.”
just one question. if the tribulation is 7 years and messiah comes at the end, you pretty much can pinpoint the day and probably hour of return. only if comes before are we eagerly waiting not knowing the time and hour of return.
Christ tells us in Matthew 24: "That time will be cut short for the sake of the elect". What this means is that the 7 year period referred to in Daniel will be shortened. Therefore, we're not going to know exactly when Christ is coming to rapture us.
@@kenklein9228 Other than the fact that a specific timeframe counted by days is prescribed both in Daniel and in Revelation, one still has a very specific timeframe before Yeshua returns with His saints for the Millennium, set out in DAYS! Given to John long AFTER Yeshua's resurrection.
@@yizraelrasco4992 So you have to ask yourself a question: Did Christ lie when He said those days (previously prescribed in Daniel) would be shortened? Was He lying? If your answer is no, then we understand that timeframe you speak of is an appointed timeframe (divinely appointed), and for that reason we see it both in Daniel and in Revelation. Christ is saying that the appointed timeframe which is given to us, previously in Daniel, later in Revelation, is "cut short for the sake of the elect". We'll be here for the GT unless we die beforehand. Time for us to get ready.
@@Kman. Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
The first time I heard about the Pretrib rapture, I said to myself that I wanna be left behind because Jesus loves me and died for me. I wanna die for him because I love him.
You totally misunderstand what Christ wants of us, because it is *NOT* His desire that we "DIE" for Him, rather that we live for Him NOW. And by the way, if you're a born again Christian, you have no choice in the matter...you're _RAPTURED_ before the tribulation begins. With that in mind, let's all *LIVE* for Him now, *John 9:4.*
@@Kman. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. you just cant help posting anti bible and anti christ comments. you need to repent and get born again by the spirit of God. your rejections of the knowledge of the truth gets you rejected. Hosea 4 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
@@Kman. Don't get discouraged over comments from the scoffers! You ever notice that we never claim to know the heart of a Christian, yet we "pre-tribbers" as they like to call us, are continually told just how wretched we are and unsaved we are? Pride and Vanity oozes from the hearts of men in this present day and it rolls off their tongue to their great pleasure! Stay firm and confident in our blessed hope!
Dr MIchael Brown speaks like an SDA on this subject both think exactly the same on tribulation and the church. but Dr Michael does have a great imagination and speaks from that on this subject
Read the Bible, and you won't read of a pretrib rapture.. only influences from outside books and other people form that lens. I used to believe the pretrib rapture.. Now I tell people to trust Jesus' words, not man's words. He will return like He said.. after the tribulation. Once. If anyone says different or adds to Jesus' words, run.
The secret, pre-tribulation rapture at the pre-second coming of Jesus. I checked into it the best I could. One very good Bible teacher said, in the end, it has to be that way. God wouldn't allow Christians to go through the tribulation. Literally, at the end of all of his analysis, that was his reasoning. The reasoning of man, not in the Bible. But you can find anything you want to from various verses in the Bible.
Tribulation is day to day challenges. Noah was at no risk of being drowned because he was in the Ark. Lot & his daughters were not consumed by fire, nor were at risk because they were advised to leave Sodom & Gomorrah. In that 7yr period, why would God leave us here?
Because like in the first 7 seals, trumpets, the 7th of each being "the day of the Lord", there is a sequence of events that will take place. The Lord clearly states in revelations 13:7 that it was granted for the anitchrist to wage war against the saints... and to conquer them. How can the antichrist do that if the saints have all been raptured in a pretrib? How can the events in revelations 6 with the martyrs take place if they were already rapture before the tribulation? God's wrath is the "day of the Lord." The day of the Lord takes place at the seventh seal (rev 6:17). The antichrist wages war against the church before the seventh seal. Those who have been pre-determined to live through the tribulation have the Lord's protection. Also Paul clearly shows in 2 thesselonians 2:1-4. Growing up in a postrib denomination they always stopped reading at vs 2. But here Paul clearly lays out a cause and effect. An order. Just because we don't know the day or hour doesn't mean we can't understand and know the sequence of events to take place in the end times.
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." -How else could we be with Jesus where He is- In Heaven? Because we know at the Second Coming "His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west-" and "At that time Jerusalem shall be called the throne of the Lord, and all nations shall gather to it, to the presence of the Lord in Jerusalem," We go to be with Him in the place He has prepared for us before His feet split the mount of Olives and He takes His throne in Jerusalem ☝️ We return WITH HIM at the second coming! Edit: I have no idea how that became underlined!!! May God Bless each of you reading this, in the Name of the One who died for YOU and was resurrected from the dead, Jesus Christ.🙏💜 John 14:3 Zechariah 14:4 Jeremiah 3:17
I also grew up with the pretrib view. Every church I have belonged to held that view. But around 25 years ago my husband and I began to search out the subject for ourselves, I believe at the leading of the Holy Spirit. My problem with the pretrib view stems from the timing of the First Resurrection. Every pretrib teacher out there holds to 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 1 Cor. 15:51-52 as proof texts for the rapture. The righteous dead are raised. Yet Rev. 20:4-6 clearly places the First Resurrection at the end of the Tribulation. In Job 19:25-27 Job proclaims that his Redeemer will STAND on the EARTH, and a resurrected Job will stand with Him. In John 11:23-26 Martha tells Jesus she knows Lazarus will be resurrected on the LAST DAY (singular). So I came to the conclusion that either there are two first resurrections, or a single Coming. When I have shared this with pretrib friends some were confused, and some got angry. Others began to look for themselves. I honestly hope I am wrong.😊I will say I have met more post trib people in the last 10 years than ever before.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@SpotterVideo Just how many times do you think Jesus will Rapture his church ? Lets see what pretribbers believe . Number 1 He will secretly Rapture all those who want to escape any suffering or Tribulation. Number 2 He will come a second time and Rapture those Left behind . Number 3 Then he will come back and Rapture the Jews. Boy , how pathetic. Jesus will not rapture any Jews at all . He will rapture Jews who are converted to believe he is the Lord and Savior .There are those who worship Satan and will continue to do so. Jesus comes in the Rapture one time and he said everybody will see . The timing of that Rapture will be as a thief in the night, Boom and there he is. But all will see .
@@SpotterVideo Rev. 12:4 is the Holocaust and the birth of the Nation of Israel in a day. Verse 5 is the Body of CHRIST "harpazo" to HIS throne. Verse 6 Israel's 70th week begins. Verse 12 we the Body are rejoicing in "HEAVEN" where we dwell by HIS throne, WOE to the inhabitants of the earth. It's very clear and in harmony with Isa, 26:12-21 and Rev. 6:11.
I think DR. Brown is correct on this issue. My concern about this issues is this: If those that believe in the pre-trib position are wrong, they may not be prepared to endure the tribulation that Christians are sure to experience during the tribulation and many of the remnant churches are so focused on the pre-trib rapture doctrine that their followers may well have their faith shattered if it turns out to be erroneous.
Questions for you based on your "concern"... *1* For the person who believes in the PRE-tribulation rapture, *VS* s/one that believes in a POST-tribulation rapture...just how do they "PREPARE" for the 7yr tribulation any differently? *2* If s/one's faith is "SHATTERED" should the Lord return some time after the tribulation starts, where or WHO was their faith really in? *3* If s/one is CONVINCED that the rapture takes place after the tribulation begins, isn't that person really looking for the tribulation, whereas we're to be awaiting Christ's return? Would their faith have been misplaced in all actuality? *MARANATHA!*
Exactly! And I think, if Dr. Brown didn't mention it in this video, he mentioned a story about the Chinese and Christian missionaries that told them not to worry, they won't go through tribulation. As I recall he said they were quite upset that they were taught this concept of not going through tribulation and a lot of them were slaughtered like early Christians were.
@@jayjay-bz3rr You need to read 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 where Paul reiterates that the rapture does NOT occur until two events happen. One is the man of lawlessness being revelated and sitting in the temple of God, claiming to be God. And the following verses makes it clear this is the Anti-Christ. Unless it is Zev Schwartzminer, an anti-christ wanna be. Paul told the Thessalonians before and repeated what he told them in the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians - chapter 2. Even back then there were people trying to thwart and confuse Christians.
The reason so many come to a pre trib understanding of the rapture (gathering) is because of the use of a Dispensational lens to interpret scripture. But Dispensationalism perverts scripture, leading Christians away from a proper understanding of end of the age issues.
1 Corinthians 15 is a passage that most pre-tribbers use but if you read it in context and read to the end, it clearly states that there is no more death. "Death is swallowed up in victory". Those of us who are left on earth, at that time and the dead in Christ are taken up at Our Lord's Second Coming because after that, there is no more death.
He may be a Bible scholar, but he's also giving his own thoughts and opinions on it as it's explained and we can't get in the way of the truth, I do believe in the rapture, I'm pre trib' for sure!
What does the Bible say? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@TheMistysFavs Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@SpotterVideo The order of the group resurrections we find in 1.Cor 15:20; 23+24. 1) Christ and the first fruits=OT Saints; 2) NT Saints at His parousia, 2.coming after the GT; 3) the rest of the dead at the end of the Millennium 1000 years later, not 1007. Rev 20:4-6 shows the NT Saints on thrones, to them is given the Kingdom and judgment ( Dan 7:22). This includes the Saints of the Trib. Zech 14:16-19 tells us there are survivors, of the nations, that replenish the earth. They have to come to Jerusalem for judgment and bring the surviving Jews with them (Isa 66:20, 49:22,etc).
I absolutely agree and have thought that ever since the Lord showed me the truth, the people who believe they're going to be taken out are not preparing themselves spiritually or even mentally and I believe might suffer more
Amen. I truly believe The Lord showed me this truth too. I've been trying to let pre trib believers know that we need to be prepared to go through it, but for the most part it's not been good. Someone told me today that I was "condemned" for believing this.. 🙄
LOL the lord of this world decieved you through these money grubbing men. They took the blessed hope away and replaced it with horror, death and torchers. Different JESUS, different Rapture, different Gospel Brown invented out of his head.
@@julianaallen8477 Your right the fubar discernment you stated is new to everyone but you and the voice in your head. Dan. 11:30 is the line in the sand warning from Rome to Antiochus not to attack Egypt. Dan. 11:31 Antiochus interrupted the daily routine on the Temple Mt and polluted the sanctuary by assignment of an illegitimate high priest. Dan. 11:32 He did this through flatteries, bribery and murder. but the Maccabees know their GOD and will be strong. Dan. 11:33 is the 2300 evenings and mornings, Aug. 21, 174 bc to Dec 16th 168 bc. Dan. 11:34 is the Maccabean war at the last part of the 2300 days Dan. 11:35 the sanctuary is cleansed. Nothing in these verses involve CHRIST. It's prophecy for Persia and Grecia and the ships of Chittim are Roman. Daniel 11 is next to recorded history reads like a newspaper after the fact, so much so it was accused to be written after. But the Greek Septuagint has Daniel translated before 11 and 12 were fulfilled. Have you even read the history, Josephus or the book of Maccabees? It's Allah a false god Ishmael was fathered by Abraham and became the Muslims of a false satanic god Dan.11:36:45.
I am 73 yrs old and have read the Bible all my life and I do not read books - only The Book. I agree with Dr Brown as my experience is the same as his - I was “taught” rapture theology. I believe there is Only One Second Coming. But I do see a “secret coming” to His Bride. I see this in the Word. The parable of the 10 Virgins is a hidden truth. Jesus comes in darkness to a few. The Word says “they (the 5 virgins) went IN with Him TO the wedding feast”. This is Not the Second Coming. The Second Coming is a Public event. Luke 12 Jesus gives another parable which is very similar but is to Men “when He RETURNS from the wedding Feast”…and in this parable Jesus comes and knocks for His faithful servants. Both parables were constructed in the mind of Jesus so Very Credible!! In John 7…. Jesus goes to the Feast of Tabernacles 3 times. (The Millennium when Jesus is With us and reigns on earth, the Feast of Tabernacles will be celebrated and fulfilled for the 7th Millennial Day - He will Tabernacle among us!) so the John 7 passage is very prophetic. The First time He goes to the Feast - He goes SECRETLY…before the Feast! Another place I see a reference for is is in Acts 1:11. The angel said Jesus would return in the same way He left. We think with our human minds that Just as He was lifted up, in the same way, He will come down. But I think there is much more than this. Jesus’ Leaving began with His Death on the Cross, His Burial, and Resurrection. The first person to see Him was Mary - BEFORE His first ascension to His Father - He told her “don’t touch Me”…Then He took His blood before the Father and stood before the throne as the Slain Lamb (Rev 5:6) Here is the point He First appeared to Mary - the Woman - the type of the Bride, next He appeared to the two on the road - Servants, and again the same night - He appeared to the Apostles. I believe that True Believers - His Bride, will see Him Before the Second Coming. There are many other references in the Word regarding the Bridal Coming - it’s just hidden! Prov 25:2
The message of the parable of Luke 12:36 is 'be ready". The word return is misleading, it is a break up, a departure of the wedding to take the bride and have the marriage supper after the Trib (Rev 19:6-9), not before.
Overall, I enjoyed the interview, but "Which is not a rapture at all?" Huh? The rapture doesn't mean airplanes falling out of the sky because pilots are gone. It refers to being 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. I found it used this way in a Bible commentary written before Darby.
It’s important to be in prayer and fasting and watching like Jesus warned us. We don’t have time to divide over teachings. I preach repent, for the reign of heaven is coming. Jesus did the same. “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done.” Study what Jesus said and the Word spoken by the holy prophets.
Yes it is a salvation issue that's what it's all about many people will fall away and curse God and Jesus and their pastor because they were misled yes this is a big salvation issue. Many will not be prepared mentally spiritually physically for this time of tribulation and they'll turn in their brothers and sisters for a morsel of food cuz they don't have faith to get through this tribulation.
Also, that the preTrib teaches the restoration of animal sacrifices AFTER His Son's once for all time, for all men, Sacrifice, reveals it's a massive deception, completely foreign to the Scriptures.
The end is near, it will be extremely upsetting for everyone who enters the great tribulation unnecessarily due to their rapture theory being false, whether their pre- or post-trib theory was false. So, if that frustration increases a person's likelihood of taking the mark of the beast, then it applies equally to both post-tribers and pre-tribers. Isn't that correct?
@@biblehistoryscience3530almost all people that are not pre-tribulation rapture believers. Are preparing mentally physically and spiritually for the time that is coming. Highly unlikely to take the mark. That's the reason why the scripture says children will betray their parents parents will betray each other brother will betrayed brother.
@@theendishere4228, none of you are prepared for the terrible shock that you were deceived into willingly entering the greatest tribulation in human history instead of being received by Jesus to Heaven. And as far as being prepared to die for your faith, that's nothing new. The New Testament has been preparing Christians to face that possibility for nearly 2,000 years.
@@theendishere4228 When I found out all the churches I went to lied about the preTrib, that was frustrating. it is rather very freeing to stop wondering about when He's coming. It's the last day of the world, so I've relaxed about it each day since. Jogn 6:39-40, 44,54
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
The Pre Trib Rapture Fable was NEVER Taught by any Man of God in Scripture! No Prophet Prophesied it! No Apostle Prophesied it! It is NOT Declared in Scripture!
I stopped believing in the rapture years ago. I do believe Jesus will return. I just don't know when. My prayer is that God keeps me, so that I will never turn away from him.
I attended a lecture by an Orthodox priest a long time ago who responded to the rapture question with this: the teaching of the rapture is a lie from satan to confuse Christians, especially protestants so that they will become discouraged and end up falling prey to satan. I never forgot that because my protestant friends tell me all the time that Christians will not have to go through the tribulation.
I am looking for churches that believe a mid-trib or post tribulation rapture but I can only find churches that teach a "beam me up Lord" pre-tribulation rapture. Pre-trib is taught as true so matter of factly as if it is absolutely true and their entire congregation or even denomination just accept it as if it must be true. Whenever they speak of the tribulation they always say "its terrible but dont worry we wont be there" but I dont find this to be true at all. I can not find a bible believing church that will accept the fact that the Bible teaches tribulation is against the saints and the church that we will go through tribulation and we are not raptured out of tribulation. Are there denominations or churches out there that teach mid trib or post trib rapture? Please help me find some.
I would not base my decision on a church based on there view on the timing of the rapture. This is not a salvation issue. NO church is going to be perfect. This is not something you divide the body of Christ over, blessings
@@davidmaco1 It actually is a salvation issue. Mattew 24: "21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again. 22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."
@@davidmaco1 Spot on. Jesus isn't going to deny us access to heaven because we held the wrong vision of the End Times!! LOL I love all these people who are so concerned with getting this right. Hey guess what, if it is pre-trib and you are a genuine believer, you will be pleasantly surprised even though you prepped for mid or post. If it's mid-trib then you have done some preparation and have been living in accordance with some of the talking points this man makes on this video. If it's post-trib, congratulations, you are in the 1% club of all human beings on the planet, because that will be the survival rate of going through the tribulation. If you make it out alive, you get to live through the rest of eternity as a mortal, that has to eat the from the tree of life for the rest of your days. There will be believers in all phases. Some will believe before the rapture. Many more will believe once it occurs (see doubting Thomas). Many will be martyred for the gospel of Jesus Christ. We all have our place in this life. Christ has us where he wants us for specific times and purposes. And whichever events take place he will be there with us through it all. The point is have a relationship with Him and don't worry about when the call comes.
Mike Winger who is a Calvary Chapel pastor teaches a post trib rapture but many Calvary Chapel pastors teach pre-trib. You may have to go church by church and talk to the pastors. But one thing I've noticed about most if not all organized churches is that they have doctrines that evolved over time and are not necessarily Biblical, that is they are pretty much man made. Also, a lot of people within any particular church will have widely different views anyway. I don't think the Catholic Church teaches a pre-trib "rapture." But you will probably have a lot of problems with many of their doctrines.
Praise God I've learned a lot in my spirit. post tribulation is true and we must be prepared and the pre tribulation will be the cause of great falling away from God's salvation that is if they are walking a spiritual relationship with God
Yes dispensational doctrine teaches the pre trib rapture along with many other false doctrines I believe may be instrumental in the falling away from the faith.
When you Post Trib lot come back with our Lord , who's alive on the earth to go in to the Millennium , you know , the ones you rule and reign over with Christ , because following your time line means No one will be here when you get back , the earth will be empty. Population Zero .
When I was being presented with the pre-trib rapture teaching, it did not sit right in my spirit; The questions/statements in my mind were: Jesus does not appear 3 times, who would share the gospel to the people left behind, why is this generation so special that we avoid the tribulation and why would Jesus warn us about it, if we were not going to go through it? Hopefully the great falling away is not marked by those whos "blessed hope"is in the pre-tribulation rapture. Thank you for this solid biblical presentation. God bless you.
Matthew 24 has always convinced me of "Post-Tribulation". The Coming of the Son of Man Matthew 24:29-30 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
And that is absolutely so. But Dispensationalists insist that Christ is talking to unbelieving Jews rather than His disciples, you and I. Dispensationalism is a perversion of scripture.
Remember when reading revelation sometimes John will say then this happened then this happened.. then other times he won’t say it in chronological order he just states things he saw. You can’t say revelation happens in the order it is written.
It is confusing. I suspect it is meant to be. But I also think it will become clearer as we near the time of the end as a number of things have become clearer. One obvious example concerns the two witnesses and how the entire world can see their dead bodies in the streets of Jerusalem. That wasn't possible, as one person pointed out, until the 1960's. Just a thought.
Seeing as how the revelation 12 sign happened almost 5 years ago I absolutely agree. Just bc it’s in revelation doesn’t mean it’ll happen during the last 7 years or the “tribulation”.
With four simple steps we can determine whether the rapture takes place before, or during, or after the tribulation. 1.According to Matthew 24:29 the sun is darkened "immediately after" the tribulation: ▬ "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" 2. According to Revelation 6:12 the sun is darkened at the opening of the sixth seal. ▬ "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." (Revelation 6:12-14) So we know that the tribulation is over at the opening of the sixth seal, when the sun is darkened. 3.The resurrection and rapture, however, take place "at the last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52) . . . at the seventh of the seven trumpet soundings that comprise the *_seventh_* seal. The apostle Paul describes this in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54: ▬ "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) And here is another account, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17: ▬ "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17) 4. Given that the tribulation is over at the opening of the _sixth_ seal, and the rapture takes place at the "last trump" of the _seventh_ seal, it is obvious the rapture takes place after the tribulation. The events, in order: "Immediately after" the tribulation, the sixth-seal darkening of the sun and moon take place, followed by all the remaining events of the sixth seal (Revelation 6:13 through 7:17). After that, the seventh seal is opened, and the first six trumpets of the seventh seal (Revelation 8:1 through 11:14) take place. Within those 6 trumpets we have the two witnesses and the "beast" who kills them (Rev 11:1-10), reigns for 42 months (Rev 13:5) and "makes war" (Rev 13:7, Dan 7:21,25) on the people of God. At sounding of the "last trump" (1 Cor 15:52) - the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15) - the resurrection and rapture take place. The same 7th trumpet announces the impending wrath of God (Rev 11:18). That wrath is poured out "upon the men which had the mark of the beast" (Rev 16:1,2). The church will escape that wrath: they will have been raptured just beforehand. During the wrath, the beast gathers armies (Rev 16:12-16). Jesus, accompanied by His raptured church, defeats the beast (Rev 19:11-21; Zech 14:1-7). Jesus and His church rule the Kingdom of God here on earth for 1000 years (Rev 20:6; 5:9,10; Isaiah 2:4 and many more). So we see that the tribulation is not the wrath of God. And we see that the beast is in power after the tribulation has ended. So, what is the tribulation? It is a time so bad that unless it was cut short, no one would survive it. Jesus described it in Matthew 24:21,22: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." My opinion: The tribulation is probably wartime use of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction . . . a time so bad that unless it were cut short, no one would survive it. ruclips.net/video/fPNUOf3KYVU/видео.html
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
I have a question that I have asked many many people who hold the post trib position. No one ever gives me an answer. But you seem to have spent a great deal of time studying this so perhaps you might give me an answer. In John 14 Jesus said He was going to the Father's house to prepare a place for us. He said He would come again and receive us unto Himself so that we would be where He was. (in the Father's house) So my question is simple. Where does this John 14 scenario fit in the post trib rapture view?
@@robbymacklin Go and READ all of John Chapter 14 and you will then get your answer! It all Fits Together so well! Every Single believer in God that has ever Lived is going to be in that House when Jesus Comes! All that Partake in the First Resurrection at Christs COMING will Receive that Promise! Jesus made it Clear, where He will be we will be also! WHEN Jesus COMES again after the Great Tribulation He will Receive us all to Himself and we will be in the Fathers House, JUST as Jesus Promised us! What an amazing Time we will have with Jesus during the 1,000 Year Reign on the Earth, we will all be with Jesus here on the Earth! I WILL Trust what Jesus and Paul say about our Lords COMING which is Post Trib, Post Apostasy, Post Revealing of that Man of Sin! I will never Trust the Deceptive Destructive Pre Trib Lie! WATCH this ruclips.net/video/tOEAUJSOh-0/видео.html
@@robbymacklin If you want a Good answer to your Question watch this Short Video that answers your Question which is the TRUTH! ruclips.net/video/tOEAUJSOh-0/видео.html
Typically erodite and gracious words from the lips of Dr. Brown - I am not sure I agree with the case that he makes but I wholeheartedly agree with his statements about such matters regarding dogmatism. Cause for me to revisit the scriptures on this topic and take it afresh to God in prayer. God bless you all - to those who know Him not, come to Jesus while there is yet time!
Speaking of fear and turning it around by a deeper relationship with the Lord: Peter went from denying Jesus, then becoming converted, then said he didn’t deserve to die as his Lord and requested to be hung upside down. That is fearless. Amen!
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@robertbrown6879 That passage has been re-interpreted by pretribbers today differently than the understanding for almost 1800 years. During earlier times most Bible scholars believed it meant the Church would not be gathered to Christ until after a great apostacy in the faith. Some pretribbers today claim it means the opposite.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Compare that verse to “And at that time shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.” Daniel 12:1-3
Debbie Packer, I agree that doesn't make sense. But Paul used the Greek word _apantesis_ “a meeting” in 1 Thess 4:17 to described the saints rising to “meet” Jesus in the air at the rapture. And that's a technical term for special meetings, such as when townsfolk went out to meet dignitaries then escort them back in, so post-tribers claim that proves the saints are going up and straight back down. However, the word is just about special meetings. Where everyone goes afterwards depends on the custom of various events. Jesus used the same word in his Matt 25 parable of ten virgins who went out to “meet” the bridegroom, and wedding feasts were customarily held at his house (or his Father's house in the case of Jesus Christ), so that blows their claims that this word is evidence for an up-down rapture ride.
The word meet in 1 thess 4 is the same as in biblical times when a king would return to a city, people would go out and meet him and escort him back into the city, same thing here. Rev 16, same thief. We meet Christ in the air and go to Armageddon
@@issuesthatmatter2825, you ignored the fact that the definition of the Greek word _apantesis_ has nothing to do with where people go after meetings. And Jesus' use of the word in Matt 25 disproves what post-trib teachers claim about it, but you've ignored these facts and tried to tie the word to Rev 16 where it isn't even used. As long as you ignore things that people say which refute your interpretation, you will never learn the truth.
It can become a salvation issue when people find out that they were lied to and they found themselves smacked in the middle of the tribulation And then I become offended at.God
I have heard pre tribbers say that the "restrainer" in 2 Thessalonians is the Holy Spirit because He will leave with the Church. But somehow the "Rapture Saints" mentioned after it will be saved without the Holy Ghost.
I am very afraid that the pre-trib camp will be woefully unprepared in their hearts lose their faith. This may be the cause of "the great falling away.?
Just how would s/one "PREPARE" for the tribulation? Aren't we told in scripture to await His COMING, not any tribulation? Explain what you refer to as the "GREAT FALLING AWAY"? Is that s/thing that can be numbered, measured? Will it be obvious? If you're wanting to use the passage in *Thess* for that "falling away" phrase, I'd suggest you do some more study on that.
@@Kman. Matthew 24: 9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Wrath and Judgment are two different things. Consider where the Israelites were during ALL TEN plagues -- Egypt! EVERYONE went through the Tribulation together, even God's chosen ones; but when both groups tried to get through the Red Sea, only those who were covered by the Lamb escaped his wrath. Judgements -- all went through, experiencing Divine Protection along the way (Light in Goshen; Passover). Wrath? (Red Sea) -- only those under God's protection escaped! Same with Great Tribulation: I believe we will all go through it, experiencing Divine protection along the way. But in the end, only those who cling to the Name of Jesus will be saved.
@@kenklein9228 then read 2Tessalonian 2:7-8.......verse 7 is the church,the anti christ in 8.the church must be out of the way....by means of the rapture,after the rapture is the 7 yr GT
@@loodvanschalkwyk2869 I've read that, and I've not seen a pre Trib rapture in those verses. We don't know what's meant by "the restrainer" being out of the way, but if it's a reference to the Holy Spirit, it's not being taken off the earth, just being out of the way of the anti Christ.
@@loodvanschalkwyk2869 No one's been able to show me where in that scripture, or in any other scripture, that we're told, "the church will be raptured before the GT". And in fact, Christ tells us in Matthew 24 that we'll be here for the GT. And no, Christ wasn't talking to the Jews.
Dr. Brown (whose work with Jews and bringing them to Faith I have the utmost respect for -- but whose eschatology has apparently suffered due to his dedication to the aforementioned efforts) seems to put a lot of weight on this idea that the "last _trump"_ (not "trumpet") of 1Thess 4 simply _must_ refer to the 7th Trumpet Judgment in Revelation. This is the result of a combination of exegetical pareidolia and less than careful reading of the text. Here's just a few reasons which Dr. Brown is wrong, here (and there are others): First of all, the "trump" of 1Thess is just that -- a _"trump"_ -- which is not the instrument called a "trumpet" itself, but rather _the sound which that instrument makes._ Secondly, the Rapture in 1Thess involves _Jesus Himself_ coming for His Bride (it does not say that angels come to catch us up) -- whereas the 7th Trumpet in Rev is sounded by _an angel!_ (Attempts to turn the angel with the 7th Trumpet into the Lord Himself fail miserably, as I shall also demonstrate). Moreover, the Rapture is an event which happens *in an instant, in the **_"twinkling of an eye"_* -- whereas a careful reading of the 7th Trumpet shows that this happens *over **_multiple days!!!_* The text reads: _"But _*_in the DAYS_*_ of the voice of the seventh angel, when he _*_shall begin to sound,_*_ the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."_ And the REAL kicker?? Dr. Brown and his Post-Trib advocate/Pre-Trib opponent colleagues often deride the Pre-Trib position as believing in "two comings." He actually does it here, in this video-- multiple times. But if someone wants to claim that this "mighty" angel with the 7th trumpet is actually the Lord Himself -- as I suppose they must, in a vain attempt to reconcile the trumpET of Rev 10 with the fact that it is the Lord Himself who gathers us in 1Thess 4 -- then in fact *it is **_they_** who believe in "TWO Second Comings" -- because the angel of Rev **_actually sets foot on earth!_* (verses 2 & 4 explicitly say the angel places one foot on the sea and the other on earth)!! The irony is RICH! In reality, we Pre-Tribbers *do not* believe in "two Second Comings" -- as His "Coming" shall be _to earth,_ and the Rapture is us going up to meet Him _in Heaven!_ It's practically the OPPOSITE: It is _us_ going to _Him_ -- NOT Him Coming to earth! (as opposed to the fact that, in the first of the "two Second Comings" which the Post-Tribber believes in -- where the "mighty angel" with the Seventh Trumpet sets one foot on the sea and the other on earth -- IS AN _ACTUAL_ additional "Coming" [to earth]!! Dr. Brown's work evangelizing Jews and arguing for the Messiahship of the Lord Jesus is second to none -- but it really seems like all the time he has invested in this important and excellent work has come at the cost of a less-than-careful study of eschatological matters.
It is not distressing, the issue is that many preachers and families of Christianity/denominations are from 2nd, 3rd or more generations. If a preacher preaches a post tribulation rapture usually gets thrown out of his or her family or church. Basically, it is a financial thing.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
As a pastor, you should absolutely know the bible enough to realize this is a false teaching. The rapture is biblically Pre trib. These people are false teachers to deceive those who don't read and look for the secrets hidden in the books of the bible.
Is the New Covenant found in Daniel chapter 9? Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant. Or, is the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28? The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby showed up on our shores. What was the earlier understanding of Daniel 9:27 found below in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate. Daniel 9:27 And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection. (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them. ------------------------------------------------ During recent years many New Covenant scholars have examined Daniel chapter 9 from a New Covenant perspective. Did Christ fulfill the summary found in Daniel 9:24? Is it about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary? Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (These two verses are quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.) Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. The death of the Messiah is found in Daniel 9:26, and there are only two possible singular antecedents for the word “he” in the next verse. Those antecedents are either Christ or Titus, who was the prince of the people that destroyed the temple during 70 AD. Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Is the “he” in Daniel 9:27 the “Messiah”, or “the prince” of the people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary in verse 26? If we used “the people of the prince” it would not be a singular “he”. Does the author of the Book of Hebrews connect the New Covenant with the Messiah’s death found in Daniel 9:26, in the verse below? Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (NKJV) Verse 26 also says the Messiah would be cut off “after” the 69 weeks. If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week, or after. Is there a “gap” of almost 2,000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week, or was it fulfilled during the first century when the Gospel was preached “first” to the Jews? We know there is a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as the Apostle Paul said in the verse below. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people during the first century? If we can, we have good evidence that the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled. Did Christ command His disciples to take the Gospel only to Israel in the passage below? Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Is the time period when the Gospel was preached “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews in the passage above, confirmed in the passage below? Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. In the passage above Luke confirms the fact that the Gospel of Christ was preached throughout the land of Israel after the baptism which John preached. Here again, we have a text which reveals a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as Paul said in Romans 1:16. Bible scholars have looked at the number of Passover celebrations in the Gospels and have estimated Christ’s earthly ministry to have lasted about three and one half years. Was the Gospel taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews for a period of about three and one half years during the period of time revealed in the Gospels? In Galatians 1:14-18 Paul reveals he did not go up to see Peter until about 3 years after his conversion. During that time the Gospel continued to be taken almost exclusively to Daniel's people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. Read the recent book "The 70th Week of Daniel 9 DECODED" by David Wilcoxson for confirmation of the above.
@@SpotterVideo Your view is what the commentaries of old say, they did not have a view of a gap of 2000 years but saw the 70th week fulfilled in the first century. They tried an interpretation, but came to different conclusions. Only Gill saw in the prince in verse 26 the Antichrist, at least he mentioned it. The gap of 2000 years seems to be of newer time. The English translations are misleading, the Hebrew "ve kizo" =but (and) his end, refers to the prince, who is last mentioned in the Hebrew text. And he is destroyed through a food. by God's judgement at the end. That is NOT Titus and not Christ. Your interpretation fails, because the time given are about the last days. Dan 9:24-27 is about the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel, which is still future.Christ came in His first time to fulfill the spiritual restoration and He comes the second time to fulfill the natural restoration. Israel rejected their King and will face the wrong Antichrist who is coming. All this is still future, it did not happen in the first centenary,, satan was not bound etc.
Thank you Doctor Brown. Can you show me the verses that make it clear that the tribulation is 7 years? I've been searching, but cannot find a single reference that is clear. But there are many references to 3 1/2 years of tribulation (also described as 42 months; 1260 days; time, times, and half a time, in Dan 7:25, 12:7, Rev 12:6, 14, 13:5, etc.), but nothing about 7 years of tribulation. Even Daniel's 70th week in Daniel 9:26-27 implies that the tribulation is the second half of that week, or 3 1/2 years. Any assistance is appreciated. Thank you
He can't. That's why he has to spiritualize things. That way he can make it up and it all sound so neat and perfect. Read the bible literally. Learn to discern the differences between Mystery/Church and the Nation of Israel. Do these things and alot of the confusion is cleared up.
Simple, the saint and the dead in christ will rise first and we are alive will be cought up in ther air.. Post tribulation is a true and exact teaching.. We are all over comers true..
I believe most of Christ's followers will be taken out of the way (killed), but there will be some left standing according to the Bible, yes we will go through Tribulation.
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
It is a salvation issue. Jesus said He wont come back until there is a falling away . This false doctrine is a major reasons people will fall away. We are being prepped for it
Yep - that's a part of why people won't be prepared. However, many of us who KNOW that we'll be going through the Great Tribulation won't be prepared either unless we embrace the Lord's discipline.
If all of us Christians lived our lives with the belief that at any moment, Jesus could rapture us to be with Him, then we would be focused on fulfilling the great commission and putting Jesus first in our daily lifestyle habits and actions, and all other things would become less important. Post tribulation believers can’t live this way. I pray today is the day Jesus returns for His Bride. Maranatha.
The book of Matthew is speaking to the Jews. They will be in the tribulation. That is why he finds the answers he does. If he read the book of Luke as the Bride, he would see the rapture of the bride. Even the Lord's prayer is different in the 2 books. In Luke it is for the Bride. In Matthew they are asking to be protected from the evil one. Being taught from Matthew is causing extreme confusion for saved Christians.
…”but for the ELECTS sake the days were shortened”. Matthew 24:21-22 Elect is the church. Let the Bible define the Bible. The church will go thru tribulation but will be saved from wrath.
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church! Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church! Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger! Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation! Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people! Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
Yes, Dr Brown, I have just come to this conclusion this past week. For me the biggest problem as you highlighted was that with the pre-trib view there are 2 raptures but this does not tie in with Scripture. Scripture only speaks of one rapture not 2. So if the rapture is at the outset of the tribulation according to the pre-trib view then there would by neccessity be 2 raptures. Only today have I seen from mostly the Old Testament that Jesus Christ will return to save His people ie the Jews that remain on the earth at that time and set up His millenial kingdom a time of peace and prosperity for Israel which Paul also spoke about in Romans chapter 11. For most Gentile Christians they cannot see this or understand it but yet Paul referenced this as another one of the incredible mysteries hidden from man : Romans 11 verse 25 'For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of THIS MYSTERY, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fulness of Gentiles has come in.' I further agree that this is not an essential of the faith or that it will not determine our eternal destiny that is safe and secure providing we know that we are found in Christ by faith alone or justified by faith in Christ alone. What this does do however is is reinforce God's power, authority, sovereignity and providence in upholding His people until the very end as He who is infinitely capable of not only saving His elect but that He is able to uphold and sustain them in all circumstances as we already know from Romans 8 verse 28. God is in ultimate control of everything that happens in the entire universe even as He raises nations to do His bidding and destroys nations and even as He is also in control of a Gentile king to do His divine bidding as we read in Isaiah 45 speaking about Cyrus whom God used to set His people free after 70 years in Babylonian captivity. Personally it fills me with tremendous encouragement that my Heavenly Father is in perfect control of everything in the entire universe which includes my eternal abode which Christ has secured for me through His death on the cross reconciling me to God the Father and giving me new life and a glorious blessed hope - in spite of what may happen on this side of eternity.
@@rickhuntling7338 Not very many Pretribbers read past Chapter 4 of Revelations, I am very aware of what John wrote in Revelations . Pretribbers dont know that Jesus said Surely or Behold I come quickly 3 times in the last book of Revelations . Who was he talking to? Christians ! Not left behind Christians . And Pretribbers never read Chapter 14 where John gives a sequence of events which puts the Reaping of the Earth after the Mark of the Beast. And in 2nd Thess 2 The brightness of his coming reveals the Antichrist.
@@charleswesley9907 Post-Tribbers don't read Rev. 2:22 where the Church of Thyatira is threatened with great tribulation except they repent nor do they read Rev. 3:10 were they are kept from the temptation put on the world. Charles are you of this world? Jn. 17:14. Post-Tribbers don't read Rev. 6:11 where the bride is recieving wedding garments at the altar but the Post-Tribbers foolish virgins need to be martyred for the little season aka 70th week, Great Tribulation, Jacob's trouble not the Church's trouble. Post-Tribbers don't read Rev. 12:5 where HIS Body is "Harpazo" to HIS throne with a lot of Israel in prophecy left to be fulfilled. Jude 14 Zech. 14:5 says HE brings HIS saints with HIM. Isa. 26:19-21 Resurection > goto him> hid in "many mansions" while the indignation passes> then HE leaves HIS place to judge the inhabitants of the world. I ask again are you of this world? Did JESUS lie to them in Jn. 14:1-4? Rev. 14:1-4 Messianc Jews and the Church redeemed in as HIS First Fruits to GOD and the Lamb. Verse 8 Babyon has fallen aka Islam. After the reaping is the killing with no gathering going on. Remember Jude 14 & Zech. 14:5 have us brought with HIM in 14:14.
@@rickhuntling7338 You know what ? I dont believe you have prpoerly read Matt.25 about the 10 Virgins. The message is to carry more oil so you can for sure endure until the Groom comes. Pretribbers twist it to mean the lamp oil is the Spirit. Its not . The extra vessel of oil the Wise virgin has is literally lamp oil. Rev 2:22 does not apply to a rapture timing, All of your verses except Rev.14 is not remotely associated with the Rapture event, . In Rev. 14 the events that come includes the Mark of the beast , the Saints, Babylon is fallen,the Mark of the Beast, then the rapture. Then Matthew 24 verse 13 says He that endureth unto the end , the Same shall be saved . Matt. 24 verse 29 thru 31 ,Immediatly after the Trib. 2nd Thess 2 is where Paul says that day , the Rapture which was the subject of the letter would not happen until the Son of Sin is revealed , To the World by the brightness of his Jesus coming. There is no left behind . And I dont believe you are going to be able to resist the Mark of the Beast and neither do you so you have to believe Pretrib. Pretrib is the Strong Delusion.
Thank you! Pre trib believers please understand you will endure tribulation! I believe there will be martyrdom for most as well but God will hold you fast if you keep your faith. Even if through persecution and death!
If Christ relationship to the Church is fashioned after the Jewish wedding, when does the "Chuppah" occur where the groom comes to catch away his bride and spend the 7-day/year in Father's house and then have the marriage supper of the Lamb, just prior to his second coming as spoken about in Rev 19.
The end of the age scenario as given to us by scripture is this: 1) birth pangs (we're deep into them now) 2) The GT 3) The gathering (rapture) 4) God's wrath is poured out - that's the bowls (the marriage supper is during God's wrath) 5) Christ's return to touch down on the Mt. of Olives with us in tow.
Post tribulation, pre-tribulation, mid tribulation, I am not a Bible scholar so for me, I don’t care when it happens, as long as it happens which it will. If the Lord wants us here through it then so be it. I do not fear Satan or the Antichrist because they can kill the body but not the soul. I fear the Lord who can kill the soul and I want my soul to be with Christ no matter what I will go through.
Agreed
@@flatrodangerfield5246 huh? I have no clue what you are trying to say? Very convoluted. I know where I am in my faith and Christ Jesus knows also, so that’s alright with me….
Rapture has happened many, many times; its why we don't find mass graves for the millions that died in mud floods. Mud flood 1815? Timeline a lie?
@@dd_2023 someone needs to read their Bible, hopefully you have a Holy Bible, kjv is great. The lack of knowledge will send you to hell, get the knowledge….
For if we live ,we live for the Lord and if we die, we die to the Lord, whether we live or die we are the Lord's. Set your mind and heart either way. Christ died for us we should also be wholeheartedly be willing to die for our faith in HIM. Being a martyr for our faith in Christ is the highest honor we could attain 🌹❤🕯
THank you Dr. Brown. I have just become a Christian for months now. I had been a Seventh-day Adventist for 25 years. But when I become a Christian, leaving Adventism, I could not reconcile the idea of secret rapture. Now it is very clear to me that the coming of Jesus is not a secret but an event that the whole world to see.
The church has suffered persecution since our Savior’s ascension. Considering the profound number of verses admonishing us to endure, why would the Lord begin selectively choosing who is (& isn’t) to endure in the generation of Christ’s return?
"Selectively", and why would the Lord "begin" to do so as if it was never in His plan?
Scripture is _VERY_ clear on why the tribulation takes place...who it's for, and when it will happen.
@@Kman. what?
Why? Because HE comes to judge the inhabitants of the world and we are not of the world. Ps. 1:5 the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment nor sinners with the congregation of the righteous.
@Brian Johnston Things can be "CLEAR", yet disputed...I get that. Kind of like when momma was _CLEAR_ about getting the room cleaned up, but often an argument would ensue, right? :) A/way...
Like I stated, the bible *IS* clear on *WHY* the tribulation takes place. Now, this is not necessarily all inclusive, but it *IS* clear, and *Daniel 9:24* tells us exactly...
"Seventy weeks *ARE DETERMINED* upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
*1* Finish the transgression
*2* Put an end to sin
*3* Make an atonement for iniquity
*4* To bring in e/lasting righteousness
*5* Seal up the vision & prophesy
*6* Anoint Christ!
It won't be till the Jews cry out from the Messianic psalm, *Ps 118:26* where it says;
*=====>* "Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord." which is *JUST* as *Matt **23:39* says will happen;
*=====>* "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Then too, *Rev 3:20* tell us EXACTLY who the tribulation is for, and WHY it will take place;
"...the hour of temptation, which _SHALL COME_ upon all the world, to TRY THEM THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH."
Every characteristic that is assigned to the "EARTH DWELLERS" in *Revelation* is _clearly_ that of unbelievers.
Hey...gotta go! Been up since 1:30am & I'll be right at it again tomorrow~~:) *MARANATHA!*
Because modern western Christians want it that way, that's why.
Very straightforward and legit. Biblical support for a single "2nd" coming is quite prolific. Since we know that happens at the end, then it's pretty straight forward. We will be as in the land of Goshen, preserved, affected yes, but not overtaken or overcome by the trial which the whole world will be in.
Yes, the Bible only talks about Jesus’ 2nd Coming and never a 3rd Coming.
“so also Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a SECOND TIME, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are WAITING for HIM.”
~ Hebrews 9:28 CSB
I have to disagree with you. In the past, we see where the lord executes judgment three times, upon the city of Sodom, upon the nation of Egypt, and the entire world, and at no time did he allow the righteous to witness the destruction of the unrighteous which will surely happen if the Church goes through the tribulation. In the past, we also see how the lord had protected the righteous by either preparing a place for them in advance or taking them out of harm's way right before he begins his judgment. For example, when the lord poured out his wrath upon the city of Sodom he could have protected lot and his family amidst the fire and brimstone just like he had protected Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego amidst the fiery furnace but they would have seen the destruction so instead, they were carried out of the city and were told not to look back, and immediately after that, fire and brimstone rained down from heaven. And before he even began his judgment upon the nation of Egypt the lord had already prepared a place for his people in the land of goshen away from all of the destruction and completely out of sight. And the very same day that Noah and his family entered the Ark the rain began to fall. Here we can clearly see how protective the lord was of his people, and the pre-tribulation rapture proves that he's still as protective today as he was yesterday. The removal of God's people by this spiritual Ark is surely going to Usher in the tribulation period that time of wrath, and we the people of God are not appointed unto wrath because we hadn't rejected the lord. The tribulation period is a time of God-appointed wrath upon all the people of this world who have rejected the lord, and upon the Jewish people for rejecting, and Crucifying him. This is why the tribulation period is also called the time of jacobs troubles. I believe that the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is more consistent with Scripture than the other.
@@garvinsmith4555 Thanks for your thoughtful response. I definitely can see the thought process behind the scriptural references. There's certainly more I could go into, and I'm sure you could to, in order to unpack the whole concept for a pre or post-trib rapture, but RUclips comment section isn't the place for that. So, I'll just leave it at this, the Lord knows the way it will unfold. We have assumptions and ideas based on all kinds of verses and parallel examples, but ultimately none of us know. My hope is in Christ, as I know yours is too, so for that, we are both brothers in the Lord and we can laugh and hug after it's all over and we see our mistakes melt away in the love of His perfect presence! God bless you! Let's reach the lost, stand strong in times of trouble and pray that God will keep us strong in him until the return of our Lord. :)
@@trueborn25 I agree, it doesn't matter if we're pre, mid, or post-tribbers what matters is that we keep our garments white.
@@garvinsmith4555 "it doesn't matter if we're pre, mid, or post-tribbers" It also shouldn't matter if we're pre-, a-, or post-millennial.
I'm now on the post-trib side... There is just way more Biblical evidence for it. Sure, the pre-trib sounds amazing and I'd definitely prefer it. But, I just see Scripture screaming post. And I am comforted that the good Lord Jesus has protected us from the wrath upon the wicked. And in His strength to endure through whatever the antichrist will throw at us!
The odds of surviving the post tribulation are about 1%. It's designed to rid the earth of Satan and his followers. You don't want to be around that group of people. They will be hunting Christians for sport if you left behind. Plus if you do manage to survive you will enter eternity as a mortal, instead of having a glorified body. It will be much more fun to just walk through a wall instead of having to use a door the old fashion way. Come on up to heaven with us on the pre-trib call and have a much better time at the feast. Plus you will get a cool crown and your assignment for which part of the earthly mortals you will rule and reign over with Christ before we come back!
Biblical evidence you and other postys make God a liar. We are not appointed to wrath but salvation. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Holy Spirit removed before tribulation. If you have the Holy Spirit and He leaves you, He is a liar. He said He'd never leave us nor forsake us... the harpazo(rapture) is a byproduct of the cross, not a stand alone event. what was in the cup Jesus asked to be passed from Him?
don't listen to what you're told by Mat 7: 21-23 people.
@@mfitz19 People still get saved in the tribulation. And the means of salvation is the same now as it will be in the tribulation: grace through faith from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. You can not come to know Christ without the drawing of the Holy Spirit. The dwelling of the Holy Spirit is the assurance of knowing you are truly saved. Many people get saved in the tribulation (Rev 7:9-14). In 2 Thess 2, it says that the Holy Spirit has the job to restrain evil now in this time. But once the tribulation begins, He will no longer restrain evil. It does not mean the Holy Spirit will not be present. The Holy Spirit is not removed in the tribulation.
respect to you for having the humility to change your view open mindedly. Post Trib is indeed the correct Biblical view.
@@marymary86943 That's correct. The fruit that is going to come out of the Great Tribulation is unbelievable. More will be saved during the Tribulation than at any time in history. God actually uses that time to draw so many more people unto Himself!
Amen even Jesus say’s it inJohn 17:15-16
“I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”
Pax Cordova, Jesus was praying that about the disciples with him in John 17, then he prayed for everyone else, and that those who would believe because of their ministries would be one. In other words, Jesus did not pray for them to be taken with him at his Ascension so they could establish the church. This is not about the rapture.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 so Dr Brown is wrong too, Hmmm ok then, blessings to you brother.
@@paxcordova9277 yes Brown is stupid wrong. If you had read the bible you would realize he is dead wrong.
When I read the bible I never read about a pre trib rapture.
The word bible is not in the bible, lol.
It's there. No worries
Correct!
@@kenklein9228 Care to have a post trib/pre trib debate Mr Ken?
@@thelionofjudah77u82 You and I were just discussing this on another site, where we saw scripture crush both the pre Trib fantasy and OSAS.
Dr.Michael Brown when I became a new Christian I was sent away to a program for Christians and it just didn't click naturally. I would say things like no this doesn't make sense this cant be. I believed this on a natural spiritual standpoint in the beginning walk of my Christian life. So you just confirming this and backing it, brings me such joy and spiritual rest. Beyond I thank you. Peace and blessings to you from our Lord Christ Jesus.
Very good and accurate discussion.
I also believed in the pre-tribulation rapture when I was initially saved in December 1971 because that's what I was taught when I attended a Baptist Church and a Church of God of Prophecy Church locally. I was watching Pat Robertson in 1973 and he stated the Lord comes back for His church after the tribulation of those days and I started studying the Bible to prove him wrong. By 1974 I became convinced that he was telling the truth and now believe the Lord does come back for His born-again believers after the tribulation of those days at the sound of the 7th trumpet.
The devil doesn't just try to get Christians to sin again to regain control over us, but he also promotes "False Doctrines" in Churches. Also I personally believe that some Church Denomination Leaders realize they are teaching false doctrines, but they do not want to lose members teaching the truth and also don't want to admit they made a mistake.
Every Church organization that teaches the truth about the rapture occurring at the 7th trumpet usually has a smaller crowd as a lot of people want to hear things that are pleasant and avoid things that make them feel uncomfortable.
Jesus is fully capable of providing safety for us and it's evident when you read Revelation chapter 12 verses 13 to 17 that some will be provided nourishment and safety from the devil for forty-two months which would be the time of the great tribulation. Some will survive the tribulation and be gathered by Angels at the 7th trumpet and as the Bible teaches some will die a martyrs death before Jesus arrives.
I used to believe in a pre tribulation rapture. I know all the Bible verses and the Jewish wedding, Noah's ark correlation, etc. But one day I decided to read the Bible without the filter of the pre trib theory and I couldn't find one verse that supports a secret appearing of Jesus. The second coming is the day of the Lord. I think pre tribbers really extrapolate verses to fit their narrative. I also don't believe God would abandon people in their greatest time of need. We're here to be a light and share the gospel during the tribulation.
Cindy Metcalf, how do you interpret Luke 21:36-38 where Jesus warned everyone to repent from sin, to watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to escape all the things coming to pass and stand before him?
@@biblehistoryscience3530 possible to escape from being cast into hell for not believing
followers of Christ are not appointed to wrath. there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. if the Holy Spirit is removed before the tribulation and He leaves us here, then He is a liar. He said He'd never leave us nor forsake us. the harpazo(rapture) is a byproduct of the cross, not a stand alone event. Mat24...His ANGELS gather...1Thes4...HE HIMSELF harpazo's those found in Him. Go deeper sister.
@@mfitz19 then perhaps the Holy Spirit was never the restrainer? (The restrainer is never specified, man interpreted that the Holy Spirit was the restrainer based off of 2 thess 2.)
The wrath and the tribulation are two separate events. The tribulation happens before the bowls of wrath are poured, but the second coming is after the tribulation for the WORLD, but BEFORE the wrath (we’re included here because God is testing our faith). People will turn from their faith because of this kind of misconception. Also, throughout ALL of history, man (including Christians!) has perished for his faith. And so many will be made into martyrs in the end times, just as they have throughout the ages. Just as revelation says. (Rev 17:6) It calls for the faith and endurance of the saints (Rev 13:10;14:12), which is God’s people: US. The believers. Those that choose to follow Jesus. We will eventually perish for our faith, and few will be left to be raptured, but they will be and those will be taken up with Jesus just before the wrath. During the tribulation, there will be the 7 trumpets, and at the final trump, we will ascend (1 Corinthians 15:52). I know it’s not fun to think about, but everyone dies at some point. Diabetes, heart disease, Cancer, murder, accident, torture even (nazi Germany, slavery, prisoners in countries like N Korea, China, etc) the list goes on. We absolutely deserve death, but will be raised as Jesus was, once it’s over. Godspeed.
Exactly. Me too Cindy. It’s a post tribulation. You get that from reading. None of the pre-tribulation rapture theories ever scripturally align.
Thank you! I never did get the Rapture thing.. It always seemed so artificial.. And as I read scripture, I could never see it.. All I saw was the Second Coming, and that we reign with Christ a thousand years: Good to know I'm not the only one who believes that.. Sometimes there is a sadness from sitting through the references of pre-trib teachings, and knowing you better not say a word, because you could be judged.. Affirmation can be edifying.. Take care..
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Jesus talks MANY times about the snatching away of the church, and even stating He will come BACK again for the final wrath, at the END of the 7 with the saints who were “caught up”. I truly believe 2024-2027 the 7 will start. 2033 “33” is an important number of Jesus. So 10 years MAX until the final Wrath. Rapture will happen from 2024-2027-2030. A general timeframe including both Pre and Mid trib beliefs.
@@Itsgameover4u I disagree with your preconceived belief.. One could be taken by sin, sickness, or persecution, and the other will be left behind to do the work of God.. The work of God is to believe in the one God has sent: Jesus Christ the Righteous.. When we believe in Him, we will obey Him.. We cannot obey Him, if we don't know Him. But those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, will receive the Comforter, and He will teach His people..
@@Itsgameover4u
I TRULY believed it was going to happen sometime between 2014-17.
I was so wrong. Now l dont believe in any time or day, bec lve been so disappointed.
Someday though, it will happen.
Gby!! ☘
@@Itsgameover4uyou don’t know that.
Jesus said that no servant is greater than their master. Jesus was crucified and suffered extreme persecution. What makes believers think that they can escape from the great tribulation is beyond me?
It's not "BEYOND" you...you simply don't u/stand His plan.
It's true that we won't escape from the GT; we'll be here for it. Our role will be the same as always, which is to be instruments in God's hands to evangelize and, importantly, to assist new Christians as they "grow up into the fullness of Christ" as Paul said. And yes, many of us WILL die, though we'll be protected from the direct impact of the judgements themselves - those judgments are to "try them that dwell upon the earth" as Christ told us in Rev. 3:10. So the judgments are being used to draw all nonbelievers, Jew and gentile alike, to Christ. My primary point is this: God always uses His people to accomplish His will on earth. And He prepares His people beforehand for the work they must do. So we see this with the people of Israel on the whole (the wilderness), and with Moses, Joshua, David, Joseph, the original disciples and Paul. There're others, but you see the point.
God wants to prepare you and I for what's coming so that we 1) don't fall away 2) hear clearly from Him so we can be physically protected from the judgements and 3) can be used by Him during the terrible time which is very soon upon us. What dispensation does is puts the Christian somewhat at ease, leaving the Body of Christ on the whole fully unprepared for what's coming, believing that they'll get a magic carpet ride out of here while new Christians suffer, with no one to help them through the fire. It's not how God works, and scripture assures us that God isn't going to work that way now. Time for you and I to get ready, God's way!
I like it. Dr. Brown's correct - we're not secretly "zapped out" while everyone else on earth suffers. Rather, we're here as coworkers with God for the Great Harvest during that terrible time.
So the righteous should suffer punishment along with the unrighteous on earth for a terrible 7 years? If we're on earth what need for the two witnesses to come on scene?
@@thelionofjudah77u82 We don't suffer from the judgements, only the persecution. We're not told much about the 2 witnesses, but it seems that they're at least a portion of the church.
@@kenklein9228 We suffer only the persecution? So none of the wars,violence, famine,extreme weather and temperature events along with volcanic activity and tsunamis won't affect all of the people who are on earth during the tribulation?
What we are told about the two witnesses is that they will cause worldwide plagues as often as they wish for 3.5 years. Wouldn't this affect all that are on the earth during the tribulation?
@@thelionofjudah77u82 Let's look at what scripture tells us. The war, likely WW3, will kill 1/3 of the world's population - that's the largest death figure we're given in Revelation. More people die, but it doesn't come close to the number killed in the war. We see also that the war will affect 1/3 of the plants and trees. Those are the direct affects of the war. That's what we're told.
Revelation 3:10 is clear about this. So is Luke 21:36. We can escape the things to come IF we're being led by the Lord in it. He'll lead us to the places on earth that are safe, at that time, from the direct impacts of the judgements. Not until the bowls do we see the entire world being impacted all at once, and we're out of here immediately before the bowls.
@@kenklein9228 I have taken a look at scripture and scripture shows the saints in heaven celebrating salvation and redemption in chapters 4-5 of Revelation and later in chapter 12 before the Antichrist is revealed on earth. Scripture also shows that we are not appointed to wrath and tribulation is 7 years worth of wrath.
Wow! I couldn't have put it better myself that's exactly the conclusions I have come up with just from reading the word I also used to believe the pre-trib because I had read the Left behind series but when I started reading the word on my own after the Lord saved me it became very clear that that was not correct as well as many other things that certain denominations teach, thank you Holy Spirit for illuminating us and having Mercy on us and showing us your truth
They decieved you and you let them with an asinine U-Turn rapture nonsense. 2nd Thess. 2:3. Not to mention the KJV changed "The Departure" to "a falling away after 1500 years.
Isa. 26:19 the resurrection of the dead.
Isa. 26:20 we meet HIM in the clouds (1st. Thess. 4:17), hid in many mansions, (Jn. 14:3) a while "little season" (Rev. 6:11) while the indignation passes (70th week, Great Tribulation)
Isa. 26:21, HE "JESUS" leaves his place (in heaven) to judge the inhabitants on earth.
@@rickhuntling7338 thanks for the insults I guess, anyhow you obviously are not wanting to be a berean and that's your prerogative I do believe you're a brother but the Lord says that depending on what you build with is what you will be rewarded with or loss of them.
I guess you will soon see and maybe learn the hard way and have a rude awakening
When you will be here to see all the events that the Lord warns about.
And you say that I have been deceived and I let them but nobody taught me other than the Holy Spirit reading his holy word that we will go through the tribulation I don't believe we will suffer as the unbelievers will but we will be persecuted in the tribulation and many of us will die
@@savedwretch8711 YOUR FEELINGS TOLD YOU? Is that why you're not Berean using scripture to answer the scriptures I supplied. "Let no man decieve you in any way" is what you agree with by Brown saying "a falling away comes first". If you were Berean you would have searched the scriptures to see the KJV changed "the departure" to a falling away. Even removing the definite artical to make the change work. Every translation was "The Departure" aka "our gathering together" before the son of predition be revealed. I build on truth and will be rewarded with the truth, not a tinkle up my spine to tickle itchy ears.
Isa. 26:19 Resurrection of the dead.
Isa. 26:20 we goto him "caught up together in the clouds; 1st Thess. 4:17. Hidden in chambers "in my FATHER's house are many mansions" Jn. 14:1-4, while the indignation (7 yr. Great Tribulation) passes, "little season" Rev. 6:11.
Isa. 26:21 HE leaves HIS place in heaven to judge the inhabitants on earth bring us with HIM, Jude 14, Zech. 14:5.
1st Thess. 5:9 says we're not appointed to wrath, why do you say we are?
Why are saints receiving wedding garments under the altar in heaven if more need to suffer a martyr's death in the little season?
Did you notice Brown offered very little, if any Post Trib scriptures but only put his spin on the verses that clearly preach a Pre-Trib rapture. No truth in Brown the Benny Hinn, Jim Baker sell out.
@@rickhuntling7338 I wish you the best
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Thank you! I've never been able to see the passage in 1 Thessalonians as ANYTHING but the second coming. It makes sense to me that believers WILL be here through the Tribulation. If all believers are gone, who will help those "left behind" to find salvation? There is a reference about the end times that speaks about God putting a seal on the foreheads of believers protecting them from the locust/scorpion creatures. I've wondered about this. Why would believers need to be protected if everyone has been raptured already? Thank you so much for sharing this information.
Who'll help the people during the tribulation, I would say the two witnesses if not that the 144000 Jews or the angel that goes out yelling in heaven saying to repent. I would say that would really work. But I have a question who is the people during the millennium reign if the church is taken with Christ and the rest are killed with the antichrist then?? Right?😊
Met Michael Brown in Pensacola in mid 90s and he's so right , in the scripture the second coming and rapture are the same event
The following proves you are correct.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@SpotterVideo agreed, Matthew 24: 29-31 the word trumpet, 1corinthians 15:50-52 the words last trumpet, 1 thessalonians 4:13-17 trumpet. We who endure till the end the same shall be saved, I believe the teaching of the pre tribulation rapture will be the reason for the falling away of many a believer, cause they were taught they would escape. This will demand patience in suffering and holding to the Truth. By the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.. Bless you and yours ❤️
@@brianpeterson5559 Man I'm so sick of that logic that pretrib believers would fall away because they had incorrect doctrine. Even if the pretrib theory is wrong and we go thru tribulation we still know the Bible is real and Jesus is real.
Matthew 24 is the second coming which takes place after the rapture revealed by Jesus, the rapture which takes place before tribulation was revealed by Paul(1 Corinthians 15:51-52). He calls the rapture a mystery because it was unknown meaning he is not speaking of Matthew 24 events.
At the rapture we go up to heaven, at the second coming we return with the Lord to earth.
@@SpotterVideo Did you happen to notice in 1 thessalonians 5:9 Paul says that are not appointed to wrath. Tribulation is 7 years worth of wrath on earth.
Revelation 12 along with chapters 4-5 actually prove the pretrib rapture instead. 12:5 the manchild is the church being caught up to God. Revelation 2:26-27 confirms that we the manchild/overcomers will receive power to rule nations with an iron rod.
Revelation 12:9-10 as the war in heaven takes place the dragon and angel are cast out and the saints are shown celebrating salvation as those on earth are given woe because the devil has come down to them.
Revelation 12:17 speaks of the remnant , the remnant are those who missed the rapture but come to Christ during the tribulation. These are the persecuted saints in the great tribulation shown in revelation 7
@@thelionofjudah77u82 Yes. I did notice that. However, the Greek word for "wrath", and the Greek word for "tribulation" are two different words, as proven by the verse below.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Do you understand that the "man-child" is Christ, and He was caught up to heaven during the first century?
Read Psalm 2 to see what the 'son" does to the flawed pottery with the rod of Iron. He does not correct it.
=================
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
Feast of trumpets(1st day of the 7th Jewish month) occurs just before the feast of Tabernacle - as churches ignores the feasts to prepare His people of His return, man made teachings as the pre-trib rapture occurs to tickle people's ears and for increasing tithing by keeping the audience larger than a "bad news" such as a mid or post trib rapture
Be sure you are using YHVH’s calendar (reckoned in His creation) as opposed by the man-made, calculated rabbinical calendar created in 359 CE.
@@bethelshiloh God allowed the dominance of pagan calendar systems because His people adopted the gentiles way. In another word, using Jewish calendar system is meaningless because OT scriptures keep on warning how corrupt that Jews became as they were indistinguishable from pagans. Christians are the modern day Jews (Revelation book show Christ as bridegroom and His gentile believers are the bride compared to the Jews already as the wife rather than bride of God as in Jeremiah 3:8 as northern israel wants a divorce and southern Judah lived like adulteresses) and Christians are living like OT Jews which the prophets warned them to turn back to God. Look at Christian pastors encouraging Christmas when it is a lie (not Christ birth) and dressing in Easter bunny uniform and participated in egg hunt and all types of strange ways to gain the love of the world. Yet the pastors rebuke those who tithe less than 10% and have a sense of arrogance thinking they are ordained by God. Nothing surprise to me after reading history books on the reformation movement as they were protesting over indulgence collection and taxes rather than Catholic rosary prayer and other idolatry and refusal to encourage iconoclasm (which Old testament OT prophets and good kings participated in iconoclasm)
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
The Rapture.
The 2nd coming.
The Day of The Lord.
ALL the same, same day, same time.
AFTER THE TRIBULATION
I agree
2 Thess 2:1-3
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
Actually if we go by what Paul said its like this:
1/ APOSTASY
2/ REVEALING of that Man of Sin
3/ THEN the COMING of Jesus
4/ THEN the RESURRECTION
5/ THEN the Gathering of the Church to Meet Jesus (The Rapture)
6/ THEN Jesus destroys that Man of Sin!
7/ THEN we will all be With Jesus Forever!
None of this Pre Trib Garbage!
@@RaptureofSaints is 3-5 happen at the same time?
Studying the scriptures with prayers and notices, I found also that the Christians will be here during the great tribulation.
What scripture do you find that supports that, because the MAJORITY of Christendom u/stands the rapture to PRECEDE the tribulation period. I know there's no silver bullet for any given position, but what passage/passages do you believe help to make a solid case for what it is you just said?
@@Kman. Read the apostolic fathers writings. They all explain there is no pre-tribulation rapture, and they learned directly from the apostles.
@@1thessalonians472 I heartily disagree, because it can be pointed out that the early church leaders/fathers *DID* u/stand o/wise. But regardless, do we rely on "apostolic father's writings", or is the closed canon to be our guide for faith and practice?
Exactly,well that's what I know of when reading through Matthew 24.
@@Kman. The Apostolic fathers were the students of the apostles. They were the ones the writings we call the Bible were addressed to. Their teachings are no different than the apostles themselves. If you believe that God loves you more than those that faced persecution on the 2nd century who traveled the world on foot and by ocean to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, then you're exhibiting the nature of man which is an egocentric one. There is no pre-tribulation rapture. It wasn't even a idea until 1830.
Michael Brown is awesome I loved him in the Debate he definitely won and many other things he is a great man
I think it's important to know the difference between tribulation or trouble in one's life, and The great tribulation an event lasting 7years. Also remember that the great tribulation is an event specifically for the people of Israel to accept Jesus the Messiah who they rejected by their forefathers.
That is not biblical. Please show me where the tribulation is for the Jews. I know we are grafted into Israel. The idea of there’s the church and then there’s the Jews is a new idea that came with the dispensational theology Which comes from the doctrines of been not from the pages of the Bible. Yes they used Bible verses twist it.
@@jeffmcbride6766 You are correct that the tribulation isn’t only for Jews entirely. At the beginning both Jews and Gentiles may turn to the Lord. However, Romans 11 says “that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
Romans 11:25
So, this lets us know that there will be a Jewish awakening after the full Gentile set of believers are come into the Kingdom.
Revelation 11:13 says that when the great earthquake happens Jerusalem will repent and give Glory to the Lord.
Friend, the Bride will not go through the tribulation period (whether they were born Jews or Gentiles). But the Bible makes it clear that unbelievers will go through it
@@shalombereshiyth I thought the fullness of the gentiles was more like when all who become saved are saved and we are grafted into Israel when we get saved. And there’s no church on this side and Jews on the other. The veil was torn in two. That’s all dispensational doctrine the way I see it
@@jeffmcbride6766 there’s no difference when we are in Christ. Those who were born Jews and born Gentiles are all one in Christ. However, there is a difference when some of us have accepted Christ and some of us haven’t. We’re all (Jews and Christians) in the same family (olive) but tree but different family members. And yes, the fullness of the Gentiles is when the last Gentile comes into Christ. I’m not so much concerned with the title of dispensationalism. The eras are general periods but there are no hard fast rules. Some Gentiles came to the Lord through Judaism before Christ came to earth, but Gentiles were saved on a large scale through Christ. Some Jews have come to Christ in this era, but they will come on a large scale during the tribulation period. The blindness will be lifted
@@shalombereshiyth I didn’t not see any scriptural evidence of a pre trib rapture. On the contrary the scripture definitely states we will be going through the tribulation. I used to be a dispensationalist but it should really be called a suppositionalmost.
Dr. Brown is a very gifted and powerful teaching. Ultimately somethings we will have to live through. However, I agree with Dr. Brown. The important thing is to remain in prayer. The closer we get the clearer things will become.
exactly
@Shaun Anderson yeah I can see that one also happening
@Shaun Anderson be conforted with these words. I've done the research and Brown is still a blind Jew. He quotes Isa. 26:20,21 leaving out Isa. 26:19 where the Resurrection preceeds the hid in many mansions while the idignation passes then JESUS leaves his place "heaven" to judge the inhabitants of the earth. Some how in Browns theory we are raptured first, go up in the clouds to greet the King in the air make a U-turn then stuffed in a bunker, LOL.
@Shaun Anderson2
The Great Tribulation is shortened to 3 1/2 years (Dan 7:25+Rev 12:6+14). Everything is fulfilled in 3 1/2 years (Dan 25:7; Rev 10:7+11:15-18;; 16:17).Yeshua comes back after the 3 1/2 year Tribulation (Mat 24:29-31), when He sends His angels to gather HIS elect, the NT Saints (1.Peter 1:2)/
Many will try to take our joy away by teaching a post trib rapture. I don't know how anyone could read the Bible and not know the rapture is definitely Pretrib.
Elders are already wearing their crowns in Revelation 4 prior to the opening of the 1st seal. We all go to the bema seat after the rapture to receive our rewards.
The entire tribulation is God's wrath. It is Jesus who opens the seal that starts the tribulation. We are told we are not appointed to Gods wrath. The only ones to suffer Satan's wrath are those who won't accept him as their Messiah and won't take his mark.
Luke 21:36 Pray to be found worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS. Notice he doesn't say some or half of these things, but ALL. These are just a few references to the pretrib . It is very clear.
big difference between tribulation and wrath of GOD
Amen
Exactly
Dr. Michael, I do appreciate your talk show that has become very popular and has handled much of the chatter in the church dialog quite well. Appreciate your labor in Christ.
You mentioned one person that freaked out and to imply that all persons understanding the scripture that Jesus comes and Gathers his bride prior to the Great Tribulation has the same mindset that is a Salvation issue is absurd.
What is important is that we clearly understand what the scriptures do proclaim. You are aware of the fact that 50 % of the church is in disagreement. I believe they will Always be true. ie. If a person is truly a foolish virgin, they do not know they are. It's called deception. If they truly had understanding they surely would have repented..
agree👍?
I would love to be able to sit down with you and go through the scriptures and share with you and share with you what the Lord has shown me since the age of seven and then at full conversion at 16 years old in 1976. The Lord granted to me 3 open Visions in my lifetime, along with literally thousands of experiences as we all do in Christ.
I believe the Holy Spirit upon opening the scriptures will clearly unequivocally, undeniably, as a matter of fact! That he what bring you to love sherance of the scriptures of the love of the father bet he would never brutalize the Lord's wife just before the marriage supper! The bride of Christ was chosen called and blessed. There are hundreds of millions of saints during the Great Tribulation that will suffer because they we're not invited bar called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. Not everyone that goes to heaven is the bride of Christ. The Saints in the Great Tribulation washed their own robes in the blood of the Lamb. The bride was given fine Linens clean and white! Trust me brother. Let's sit down and reason together in the scriptures . The life experiences we're not all wonderful holy experiences. There were many battles along the way to endure.
Lauren has directed me to put in book form what he has revealed to me since the age of seven in the past 47 years in Christ and have never left the opinion or the belief that the church would suffer the Great Tribulation. Offhand I can think of 28 scriptures that clearly tell us that it is the foolish virgins/ Christians they go to the Great Tribulation and his bride is caught up to be with him and so ever be with the Lord came out of the second coming the physical coming comet is clearly not the catching up of the church or our gathering. The second coming comes with judgement and destruction and the Lord does not go back up into heaven. But rather returns with the angels and the Saints dressed in fine linen clean and white riding white horses Revelation 19:7-9 Fine Linens Clean and White
Rev.19:12-15
We find the bride dressed in fine linen cleaning light as described above and now riding alongside Jesus with the angels dressed in fine linen cleaning White as that is the appropriate garmin's for heaven. Jesus returns to the Earth placing his foot on the Mount of Olives destroying all the Wicked the false prophet the Antichrist and in Matthew 24 it says one would be taken and one would be left. They asked the Lord where will they be taken? Jesus replied where the Eagles are gathered together. Also in Revelation the Eagles are gathered together for the great supper of the Lord to Feast on the kings of the Earth and all the wicked. Matthew 24 113. The five wise virgins were ready and prepared for the bridegroom the Lord himself their lights were burning bright and their vessel was full of oil they were taken to the marriage supper and the marriage door was. Shot the five foolish came pounding on the door open up to us! The Lord's response I do not know you. But Lord surely you remember us you know us! We cast out devils in your name we pray in your name we did many wonderful works in your name. Depart I do not know you. Luke 12 3536 in regards to Jesus,. He admonishes the foolish virgins. Saying, when I return from the wedding! Make sure your lights are burning bright. And I will receive you at this time. This time is the second coming. Matthew 24 is a description of the second coming not the Gathering of the Saints where we are caught up in the air to meet the Lord and so ever be with him. When he comes to Earth there is no returning back to Heaven at least for not another Thousand Years. There was much more I have to share with you. Please feel free to reach out to me or I will contact you in some fashion. As I will not give my phone number out online. I'll have every crackerjack calling me for the next Thousand Years haha. God bless talk to you soon
And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself. And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure. And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.
Revelation 19:12-15 ASV
bible.com/bible/12/rev.19.12-15.ASV
Thank you for making me feel like I'm not crazy either. I had a very similar experience, where I was indoctrinated with the pre-trib rapture well before I had a firm grasp of Scripture. Then after reading the Bible for myself, the entire doctrine fell apart quite dramatically. I really have a problem with people thinking that they can have their own interpretations of Scripture. This is the work of the enemy to confuse and confound us. The Bible is not a buffet of interpretations that we are at liberty to just pick without consequence. R.C. Sproul said it best..."there are many applications, but only one right interpretation of a given text."
@lucasmcdonald873 you got a very loose grib on scripture. How about you produce all those Post-Trib verses for us in your grasp.
Isa. 26:19-21, 2nd Thess. 2:1-7, Rev. 3:10, 6:11,12:5, 11,12, Jude 14, Zech. 14:5, Jn. 14:1-4, Mat. 24:31-43 all are pre-trib proof text.
I’m with you Lucas. I see no solid biblical text for the pre trib rapture just a bunch of twisting to go along with the doctrine of man
@@jeffmcbride6766 twisting of scripture? That be you. Twist a post trib out of Isa. 26:19-21 or Rev. 6:11.
In Mat. 24:31 where do the angles gather the saints from? My bible says heaven. Are you going to twist heaven to mean earth? Where do the dead saints that overcame satan by the blood of the Lamb dwell in Rev. 12:12? My bible says heaven and we're having a party. What are you going to twist it into?
Howabout you suppying solid biblical text for a post trip rapture. So far all you've supplied is your opinion and presuppositions of you a man. So man up and give reason why you believe. Book, chapter and verse please with your reason.
@@rickhuntling7338 sorry but your belief system is full of suppositions. This is so silly.
Luke 17 as it was in the days of Noe so shall the coming of the son of man be. In the examples Lot and Noe
So both Lot and Noe are examples mentioned in Luke 17 where the judgement of God and preservation of the righteous happened on the same day. So shall it be at the coming if the son of man.
Anyway take care
First time I have heard this man. I will be looking for his books. He talks very clearly and backs up what he says with gospel. Thank you for posting.
I do like a lot of what Dr Brown has to say; however, he missed the mark on this one. The rapture is not a “coming” at all. 1 Thessalonians 4 says: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
We are going to meet the Lord in the air. He does NOT come to the earth at that point.
Jude says that the Lord will come with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgement. In the rapture we go to Him. In the second coming, we come with Him. The scripture says clearly at this second coming His feet will split the mount of olives.
Zechariah 14:4 (KJV)
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Also, Revelations 3 says He will keep us from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world to try them that dwell therein.
If we are saved (Acts 2:38) we will escape the coming tribulation
@@shalombereshiyth No bout adout it~~~:)
The rapture takes place in the AIR, whereas at the 2nd advent, He returns to EARTH!
At the rapture, we rise to MEET Christ...He needs no assistance of angels to gather us!
@@Kman. Amen 🙏🏽 I am soooo excited about the Lord coming back for me. I pray all the Lord’s people are ready.
@@shalombereshiyth The Lord comes in the clouds (erchomai), why is that not a coming? I agree, it is a short coming, going back with the raptured to Heaven for the Wedding (Rev 19:6-11), which happens at the time of Armageddon. Then He comes back with them as an army the same day (Luke 27:29+30), the day of the Lord (Zech 14:7), Paul called that day His parousia, that is a visible coming, advent, return at His 2. coming together with our gathering unto Him (2.Thess 2:1). It is not a secrete coming some 7 years before Jesus said He comes in the clouds (Mat 24:29). The Rapture will come at His parousia as the bible says and not at a time created by man! There is only a coming of the Lord in the clouds in the bible, which is the Rapture after the Great Tribulation. Therefore only Post-trib is scriptural. There is also no resurrection of the NT Saints before the last 7 years, which is nowhere called THE Tribulation, which is the 3 1/2 years Great Tribulation.
@@benny-yj7pq when do you think the bowl judgments happen?
I am ready . Any time, any day. I am always joyful
Yes... finally someone who speaks truth. There are Soo many verses to support this. Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 but specifically v1. Neither of these suggest we are there for the wrath, but we are taken up before God pours out his wrath. Reading the scriptures...you'll never see a secret, Pre-trib rapture. Thank you Dr. Brown. God Bless...📜✝️💕
Thank you God bless you
Michelle, if the rapture and the second coming of Jesus are one event without a separation of the 7 years or 3.5 years, can you explain who will be the people who populate the earth during the Millenium?
Keep in mind that those who are caught up with the Lord Jesus Christ and the dead who rise from the graves, will be transformed with incorruptible resurrected bodies. All the Christians alive during the Second Coming are going to be transformed, leaving only the wicked on the earth for the Lord to destroy in the battle of Armageddon.
When we Christians return with the Lord our bodies will be different and not like they are now. So all the Christians who go into the Millenium will not be able to reproduce. Yet the bible says at the end of the Millenium the Lord will loosen Satan to go out into the world to deceive the people who inhabit the earth.
If the people who are inhabiting the earth are able to be deceived, where did they come from?
So it is my understanding that these people were those born to those who became Christians during the Tribulation. Thus the rapture of the believers would then have to take place prior to the Second Coming, then during the 7 year Tribulation people would become saved and it would be those people who populated the earth because their bodies have not been resurrected, only those who were caught up in the rapture.
So I am looking for an answer on how it is possible to reproduce if our bodies are no longer geared for reproduction after we are all resurrected?
The Post Tribulation rapture does not take this into account so I was wondering if you could explain this glitch in the post tribulation thinking.
Thanks in advance for trying to answer this one.
@@truthanderror1038 Whenever you ask post trib believers a good question, they usually never answer
@@truthanderror1038 theres a verse in the bible saying "For the sake of the elect those days will be cut short" this isnt talking about people who wre saved after the rapture this is talking about the people stood their ground during the tribulation of those days
@@truthanderror1038 I'm with you on that one! I would also add this: In Revelation 20 John sees the souls of those who were martyred because of their testimony and because they did not take the mark. They were beheaded. They are in heaven....AFTER the Lord has returned at the 2nd coming....after He has killed the antichrist....after even the devil is locked up in the pit..... the martyrs are STILL in heaven and THEN John says that at that time they "lived again" (they get their new bodies) and they go into the Kingdom to reign with Jesus. BUT... if the rapture and the 2nd Coming were ONE event and it had already occurred, then why are their souls still in heaven???? Paul makes it very clear that the dead in Christ RISE FIRST...then those who are alive and remain get caught up. The scene in Revelation 20 fits perfectly with a Pre Trib Rapture. Also there is no imminent return of Jesus in the Post Trib view. They are looking for the antichrist and the abomination that causes desolation....they are NOT looking for Jesus. For a post tribber they always know that they have at least 7 years to wait. This is why Michael Brown keeps referring to being ready for death at any moment. Death can be imminent but the return of Jesus is not. So just toss out all the verses where Jesus keeps telling us to "be watching and be on the alert". And as usual you can always depend on the post trib folks to emphasize their "straw man" argument... that anyone who looks for a pre trib rapture is "an escapist" that does not believe we as Christians will ever endure any hardship or tribulation in this life. What a straw man!!! I don't know of ANY pre trib people that think we won't endure tribulation and trials in this life. Tell that to Christians living in Iran right now! We just rest in knowing that we are not appointed to God's wrath thanks to the cross.
Make sure you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit🎉
Good opening when you say this is not a topic to divide believers. Rather it should lead us to re- examine our end time theology. I Am still more inclined to adopt the pre-tribulation rapture.
You will be disappointed you will be among the falling away crew
I never bought into the Pre-Tribulation theology. If you compare Matthew 24:29-31 to 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, they refer to the same event. When Paul wrote, “By the Lord’s own word”, he must have referred to Matthew 24.
Exactly
Correct, they do.
stallion, God revealed the rapture mystery thru Paul, so Jesus would only have spoken about it using the veiled language of things like parables and metaphors. But Jesus was speaking clearly in Matt 24:29-31, so it cannot possibly be about the rapture.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Are you saying there is a Rapture separate from The Second Coming?
@@stallion66, I am saying the rapture was a hidden mystery before God revealed it thru Paul in plain language, so Jesus would only have talked about it, if at all, using the veiled language of things like parables and metaphors. Therefore, Matt 24:29-31, where Jesus talked about coming after the tribulation and gathering saints, cannot be about the-then still hidden-rapture mystery.
Thank you guys for putting forth the revolutionary idea of just reading the bible for ourselves with holy spirits guidance
Dr. Brown is not reading the scriptures. Isa. 26:19:21 Brown says we are resurrected hidden on earth to suffer through the Great Tribulation. That's an assinine argument, why not remain with the LORD in spirit in heaven if it's Post Trib.
Isa. 26:19 is the dead resurected.
Isa. 26:20; We goto JESUS, hidden in chambers ("many mansions") while the Great Tribulation passes.
Isa. 26:21; CHRIST leaves HIS place to judge the inhabitants on earth. Jude 14 and Zech. 14:5 says HE brings the Saints with him.
Exactly. Do that rather than pervert scripture with Dispensationalism!
@@kenklein9228 tell that to JESUS; Lk. 21:24. "time of the Gentiles be fulfilled" Or Paul Eph. 1:10 or 2:2. Brown is the pervert.
I'm not asserting that there are no 'dispensations', only that Dispensationalism perverts scripture! The idea that Christ offered the Jews a physical kingdom - perversion; the idea that Christ and Paul taught separate gospels - perversion; the idea that the Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth before a 'pre Trib rapture - perversion; the pre Trib rapture itself - perversion.
@@kenklein9228 2nd Thess. 2:7 is "he" the body of CHRIST is removed in "the Departure" , in harmony with Isa. 26:19,20, Jn. 14:1-4, Rev. 6:11, 12:5,10-12. Your the one that destorts the scriptures. The HOLY SPIRIT is on earth during the 70th week.
70 weeks are determined for Israel and Jerusalem and only one item was completed. After 49 years from 454 bc the vision and prophecy was sealed with the completion of the Tanakh in 405 bc.
Isreal needs to set aside the Torah covenant, bring in CHRIST's everlasting righteousness and Anoint the most Holy One of Israel their king.
For almost 2000 years they remain in supernatural slumber a cut off branch. For HIS glory HE brought them back into the land. HE will have the Islamic dragon wage war till Israel is surrounded ready to be annihilated then they will call on HIS name. All Israel will be saved.
Feast of trumpets is important because 7 trumpets are blown before bowls of wrath in Revelation. Bowls of wrath is related to Great Trib because it is required before the return of Christ.
every feast began and ended with trumpets.
We are NOT Jews Feasts are not for us.
@@TheMistysFavs They are the feasts of the Lord (Lev 23). Do you belong to the Lord, He has set the moed (times), Rome has changed that with pagan times, is that right? Not an issue of salvation, but of truth.
Who could have literally believed what Revelation said about the whole world rejoicing over the death of the Two Witnesses, the whole world watching their dead bodies in Jerusalem? Not until we had television that could transmit what was happening across the world nearly instantaneously.
Yes. Not until 1964 was the world-wide orbital communication satellite system completed. The world needed to wait until 1948 for the fulfillment of Israel as a nation, and 1964 before "every eye to see" the two prophets rise from the dead!
@@zachsplep Exactly.
The 2 witnesses are the law and the Prophets, it's not literally speaking about the literal dead bodies of a returned Moses and Elijah.
@@alongcamejones309 May I ask where you get this interpretation from?
2nd Question: Do you believe, as the Catholic Church would have you believe, that Revelation is primarily symbolic and really can't be understood.
3rd Question: When a particular passage of the New Testament is presented as literal, is it valid to consider it symbolic?
@@alongcamejones309 Up until the 20th century, the section in Revelation would be considered impossible even as opposed to just some kind of nonsensical, symbolic rant by John on LSD or whatever. Just a bit of sarcasm there.
The world could not possibly see the dead bodies of two people lying in the streets of Jerusalem, maybe not until the 1960's.
Now we know better.
God does not choose to reveal the identity of the Two Witnesses.
The power of the two witnesses and what they will do isn't new. You must know that. It's already happened before.
The tip I get from you is that you believe that the Two Witnesses are the Law and Prophets. That's conjecture a theory that probably arose prior to satellite tv.
This year I studied with Pastor Gary Hamrick. I finally understood Revelations.
If you read the whole bible searching and yearning for the truth the Holy Spirit will show it to you . Not a lie. No pre trib rapture.
God doesn't give the same gifts to everyone in the body of Christ, so it's untrue that everyone can just pray and read the word of God and understand mysteries like the rapture.
New Covenant Whole Gospel:
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14.
Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (Acts 2:36)
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
@Ompa loompa, agree!
The Holy Spirit definitely did not show you that the pretrib rapture is a lie when it is written in scripture.
Michael says a lot of smart words and Billy is a great listener 😃
im pre-trib and i love and respect the brethren in Christ, even those who have a different view.
Both sides can justify their stance, and both sides can critique each others stance, its not something to fight over.
How can you be mid trib when Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last day?
@@Mike65809 The Snatching away (which we call the rapture) is not the 2nd coming when the dead are raised. Totally separate events.
Would you like a link to a video? its not to convince you but rather, to show you how we believe it will pan out.
p.s. i said pre-trib
@@Xbot4Life Well if you've read 1 Thess 4-5 you know that Paul does say the snatching away happens at the resurrection. Isn't that what Paul is saying? The dead in Christ rise first and we who are alive are caught up with them...??
@@Mike65809
Here is the video: ruclips.net/video/Gt0WA6qkbQE/видео.html&ab_channel=DTBM
Watch that and you see what I believe, as i hinted at in my original post, you are free to not agree, it doesnt shake my faith so i have no desire to argue or debate it.
Im not saying you do, im just stating my position on this. I dont get why people argue or get into long debates on this when more then likely they will be dead before it happens like everyone in the past, just makes no sense to me.
Hope it helps.
@@Xbot4Life Okay thanks. But do know the rapture IS the 2nd coming and that is what the Bible teaches. The reason why people believe differently is because they bring ideas to the Biblical passages that are not in the context of that passage. In other words, they don't let the text speak for itself. They are leading people astray. Thanks and God bless.
All I got to say is be a Berean. If anybody tells you you’re going thru the tribulation they are wrong.Just go to any on line concordance and type in “In Christ”.I know it’s wrong to hate people but I surely dislike anyone who dismisses the rapture.Putting the Body of Christ thru the tribulation is like Moses striking the Rock twice. “Nuff Said.”
Are there any end times movies with this viewpoint. Yes my pastor said people would lose hope. I said my hope is in Christ.
just one question. if the tribulation is 7 years and messiah comes at the end, you pretty much can pinpoint the day and probably hour of return. only if comes before are we eagerly waiting not knowing the time and hour of return.
Christ tells us in Matthew 24: "That time will be cut short for the sake of the elect". What this means is that the 7 year period referred to in Daniel will be shortened. Therefore, we're not going to know exactly when Christ is coming to rapture us.
@@kenklein9228 Other than the fact that a specific timeframe counted by days is prescribed both in Daniel and in Revelation, one still has a very specific timeframe before Yeshua returns with His saints for the Millennium, set out in DAYS! Given to John long AFTER Yeshua's resurrection.
@@yizraelrasco4992 So you have to ask yourself a question: Did Christ lie when He said those days (previously prescribed in Daniel) would be shortened? Was He lying? If your answer is no, then we understand that timeframe you speak of is an appointed timeframe (divinely appointed), and for that reason we see it both in Daniel and in Revelation. Christ is saying that the appointed timeframe which is given to us, previously in Daniel, later in Revelation, is "cut short for the sake of the elect".
We'll be here for the GT unless we die beforehand. Time for us to get ready.
No one knows the time,date nor the day....
@@kenklein9228 Not the seven years will shortened, otherwise the exact number of days in Revelation would be pretty silly don't u think?
Amen the church is going through the Great Tribulation and therefore we did not recieve a spirit of fear, but of power, love and of a sound mind.
You're front loading an argument that you've not yet made.
@@Kman. Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
The first time I heard about the Pretrib rapture, I said to myself that I wanna be left behind because Jesus loves me and died for me. I wanna die for him because I love him.
I also prayed to be left behind to continue to tell lost people about Jesus until the end.
You totally misunderstand what Christ wants of us, because it is *NOT* His desire that we "DIE" for Him, rather that we live for Him NOW. And by the way, if you're a born again Christian, you have no choice in the matter...you're _RAPTURED_ before the tribulation begins. With that in mind, let's all *LIVE* for Him now, *John 9:4.*
@@Kman.
Liar.
there is no pre tribulation rapture
the rapture occurs AFTER the last day last trumpet resurrection.
@@Kman.
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
you just cant help posting anti bible and anti christ comments.
you need to repent and get born again by the spirit of God.
your rejections of the knowledge of the truth gets you rejected.
Hosea 4
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
@@Kman. Don't get discouraged over comments from the scoffers! You ever notice that we never claim to know the heart of a Christian, yet we "pre-tribbers" as they like to call us, are continually told just how wretched we are and unsaved we are? Pride and Vanity oozes from the hearts of men in this present day and it rolls off their tongue to their great pleasure! Stay firm and confident in our blessed hope!
Dr MIchael Brown speaks like an SDA on this subject both think exactly the same on tribulation and the church. but Dr Michael does have a great imagination and speaks from that on this subject
This is one of the reasons why I lean towards pre trib because SDA is a false doctrine.
Read the Bible, and you won't read of a pretrib rapture.. only influences from outside books and other people form that lens. I used to believe the pretrib rapture.. Now I tell people to trust Jesus' words, not man's words. He will return like He said.. after the tribulation. Once. If anyone says different or adds to Jesus' words, run.
The secret, pre-tribulation rapture at the pre-second coming of Jesus. I checked into it the best I could. One very good Bible teacher said, in the end, it has to be that way. God wouldn't allow Christians to go through the tribulation. Literally, at the end of all of his analysis, that was his reasoning. The reasoning of man, not in the Bible. But you can find anything you want to from various verses in the Bible.
@Robert You are correct as far as it will not be any minute. The other stuff you are saying, no I do not agree.
@Robert Why does it concern you so much?
@Robert We are near the end.
@Robert Sorry, but that doesn't describe what will take place at the rapture.
@Robert _"Now that I know the truth"_
Do share just how you stumbled up on "THEE" truth if you would plz, and what's the *SOURCE* of this truth.
just love my brother Dr. Mike Brown. Thanks for the show!
your brother is in bed with Bennie Hann and Jim Baker. $$$$$$$$
Tribulation is day to day challenges. Noah was at no risk of being drowned because he was in the Ark. Lot & his daughters were not consumed by fire, nor were at risk because they were advised to leave Sodom & Gomorrah. In that 7yr period, why would God leave us here?
Because like in the first 7 seals, trumpets, the 7th of each being "the day of the Lord", there is a sequence of events that will take place.
The Lord clearly states in revelations 13:7 that it was granted for the anitchrist to wage war against the saints...
and to conquer them.
How can the antichrist do that if the saints have all been raptured in a pretrib?
How can the events in revelations 6 with the martyrs take place if they were already rapture before the tribulation?
God's wrath is the "day of the Lord." The day of the Lord takes place at the seventh seal (rev 6:17). The antichrist wages war against the church before the seventh seal. Those who have been pre-determined to live through the tribulation have the Lord's protection.
Also Paul clearly shows in 2 thesselonians 2:1-4. Growing up in a postrib denomination they always stopped reading at vs 2.
But here Paul clearly lays out a cause and effect. An order. Just because we don't know the day or hour doesn't mean we can't understand and know the sequence of events to take place in the end times.
@@gruesomedead the church is gone after Revelation 3, so before the 7yr Tribulation starts.
1st 3.5 years isn't God's wrath, it is human persecution. Once Jesus returns, that's where we are taken up
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."
-How else could we be with Jesus where He is- In Heaven? Because we know at the Second Coming "His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west-" and "At that time Jerusalem shall be called the throne of the Lord, and all nations shall gather to it, to the presence of the Lord in Jerusalem,"
We go to be with Him in the place He has prepared for us before His feet split the mount of Olives and He takes His throne in Jerusalem ☝️
We return WITH HIM at the second coming!
Edit: I have no idea how that became underlined!!!
May God Bless each of you reading this, in the Name of the One who died for YOU and was resurrected from the dead, Jesus Christ.🙏💜
John 14:3
Zechariah 14:4
Jeremiah 3:17
The "STRIKE THROUGH" (not underlined), you mistakenly placed a "-" before and after those particular words. *MARANATHA!*
@@Kman. 🤯
I also grew up with the pretrib view. Every church I have belonged to held that view. But around 25 years ago my husband and I began to search out the subject for ourselves, I believe at the leading of the Holy Spirit. My problem with the pretrib view stems from the timing of the First Resurrection. Every pretrib teacher out there holds to 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 1 Cor. 15:51-52 as proof texts for the rapture. The righteous dead are raised. Yet Rev. 20:4-6 clearly places the First Resurrection at the end of the Tribulation. In Job 19:25-27 Job proclaims that his Redeemer will STAND on the EARTH, and a resurrected Job will stand with Him. In John 11:23-26 Martha tells Jesus she knows Lazarus will be resurrected on the LAST DAY (singular). So I came to the conclusion that either there are two first resurrections, or a single Coming. When I have shared this with pretrib friends some were confused, and some got angry. Others began to look for themselves. I honestly hope I am wrong.😊I will say I have met more post trib people in the last 10 years than ever before.
Clear teaching. Good doctrine. Well presented by Dr Brown.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@SpotterVideo Just how many times do you think Jesus will Rapture his church ? Lets see what pretribbers believe .
Number 1 He will secretly Rapture all those who want to escape any suffering or Tribulation.
Number 2 He will come a second time and Rapture those Left behind .
Number 3 Then he will come back and Rapture the Jews.
Boy , how pathetic. Jesus will not rapture any Jews at all . He will rapture Jews who are converted to believe he is the Lord and Savior .There are those who worship Satan and will continue to do so.
Jesus comes in the Rapture one time and he said everybody will see . The timing of that Rapture will be as a thief in the night, Boom and there he is. But all will see .
@@SpotterVideo Rev. 12:4 is the Holocaust and the birth of the Nation of Israel in a day. Verse 5 is the Body of CHRIST "harpazo" to HIS throne. Verse 6 Israel's 70th week begins. Verse 12 we the Body are rejoicing in "HEAVEN" where we dwell by HIS throne, WOE to the inhabitants of the earth. It's very clear and in harmony with Isa, 26:12-21 and Rev. 6:11.
I find a.much clearer teaching from johnhaage
@@chiloandchepo wait for my book to come out "Midst of the Week"
I think DR. Brown is correct on this issue. My concern about this issues is this: If those that believe in the pre-trib position are wrong, they may not be prepared to endure the tribulation that Christians are sure to experience during the tribulation and many of the remnant churches are so focused on the pre-trib rapture doctrine that their followers may well have their faith shattered if it turns out to be erroneous.
we're in trib now ... ruclips.net/channel/UCtlzQDEtQgmQ3tX2T-Pb_gA
Questions for you based on your "concern"...
*1* For the person who believes in the PRE-tribulation rapture, *VS* s/one that believes in a POST-tribulation rapture...just how do they "PREPARE" for the 7yr tribulation any differently?
*2* If s/one's faith is "SHATTERED" should the Lord return some time after the tribulation starts, where or WHO was their faith really in?
*3* If s/one is CONVINCED that the rapture takes place after the tribulation begins, isn't that person really looking for the tribulation, whereas we're to be awaiting Christ's return? Would their faith have been misplaced in all actuality?
*MARANATHA!*
1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 will occur before the son of lawlessness is revealed.
1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 is not the same event as Matthew 24:29-31
Exactly! And I think, if Dr. Brown didn't mention it in this video, he mentioned a story about the Chinese and Christian missionaries that told them not to worry, they won't go through tribulation. As I recall he said they were quite upset that they were taught this concept of not going through tribulation and a lot of them were slaughtered like early Christians were.
@@jayjay-bz3rr You need to read 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 where Paul reiterates that the rapture does NOT occur until two events happen. One is the man of lawlessness being revelated and sitting in the temple of God, claiming to be God. And the following verses makes it clear this is the Anti-Christ. Unless it is Zev Schwartzminer, an anti-christ wanna be.
Paul told the Thessalonians before and repeated what he told them in the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians - chapter 2. Even back then there were people trying to thwart and confuse Christians.
The reason so many come to a pre trib understanding of the rapture (gathering) is because of the use of a Dispensational lens to interpret scripture. But Dispensationalism perverts scripture, leading Christians away from a proper understanding of end of the age issues.
100 percent false. Bible IS Dispensational and rapture is PRE Trib
Old Testament & New Testament , that's 2 right there ,
1 Corinthians 15 is a passage that most pre-tribbers use but if you read it in context and read to the end, it clearly states that there is no more death. "Death is swallowed up in victory". Those of us who are left on earth, at that time and the dead in Christ are taken up at Our Lord's Second Coming because after that, there is no more death.
Fair points.
The Left Behind movies are still entertaining 😂
He may be a Bible scholar, but he's also giving his own thoughts and opinions on it as it's explained and we can't get in the way of the truth, I do believe in the rapture, I'm pre trib' for sure!
How many times is Jesus coming?
What does the Bible say?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@SpotterVideo Bible is CLEAR on PRE Trib...just KNOW Revelation
@@TheMistysFavs
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@SpotterVideo The order of the group resurrections we find in 1.Cor 15:20; 23+24. 1) Christ and the first fruits=OT Saints; 2) NT Saints at His parousia, 2.coming after the GT; 3) the rest of the dead at the end of the Millennium 1000 years later, not 1007. Rev 20:4-6 shows the NT Saints on thrones, to them is given the Kingdom and judgment ( Dan 7:22). This includes the Saints of the Trib.
Zech 14:16-19 tells us there are survivors, of the nations, that replenish the earth. They have to come to Jerusalem for judgment and bring the surviving Jews with them (Isa 66:20, 49:22,etc).
SO RIGHT!!!!! too much sugar coating in the churches, unfortunately😔
I absolutely agree and have thought that ever since the Lord showed me the truth, the people who believe they're going to be taken out are not preparing themselves spiritually or even mentally and I believe might suffer more
Amen. I truly believe The Lord showed me this truth too. I've been trying to let pre trib believers know that we need to be prepared to go through it, but for the most part it's not been good. Someone told me today that I was "condemned" for believing this.. 🙄
LOL the lord of this world decieved you through these money grubbing men. They took the blessed hope away and replaced it with horror, death and torchers. Different JESUS, different Rapture, different Gospel Brown invented out of his head.
@@rickhuntling7338Here's something that might be new to you..Read or look up Daniel 11 30-35.. it's not a different Jesus.
@@rickhuntling7338 Daniel chapters 7 through 11 are about the end of time and its incredibly interesting
@@julianaallen8477 Your right the fubar discernment you stated is new to everyone but you and the voice in your head.
Dan. 11:30 is the line in the sand warning from Rome to Antiochus not to attack Egypt.
Dan. 11:31 Antiochus interrupted the daily routine on the Temple Mt and polluted the sanctuary by assignment of an illegitimate high priest.
Dan. 11:32 He did this through flatteries, bribery and murder. but the Maccabees know their GOD and will be strong.
Dan. 11:33 is the 2300 evenings and mornings, Aug. 21, 174 bc to Dec 16th 168 bc.
Dan. 11:34 is the Maccabean war at the last part of the 2300 days
Dan. 11:35 the sanctuary is cleansed.
Nothing in these verses involve CHRIST. It's prophecy for Persia and Grecia and the ships of Chittim are Roman.
Daniel 11 is next to recorded history reads like a newspaper after the fact, so much so it was accused to be written after. But the Greek Septuagint has Daniel translated before 11 and 12 were fulfilled.
Have you even read the history, Josephus or the book of Maccabees?
It's Allah a false god Ishmael was fathered by Abraham and became the Muslims of a false satanic god Dan.11:36:45.
I am 73 yrs old and have read the Bible all my life and I do not read books - only The Book. I agree with Dr Brown as my experience is the same as his - I was “taught” rapture theology. I believe there is Only One Second Coming. But I do see a “secret coming” to His Bride. I see this in the Word. The parable of the 10 Virgins is a hidden truth. Jesus comes in darkness to a few. The Word says “they (the 5 virgins) went IN with Him TO the wedding feast”. This is Not the Second Coming. The Second Coming is a Public event. Luke 12 Jesus gives another parable which is very similar but is to Men “when He RETURNS from the wedding Feast”…and in this parable Jesus comes and knocks for His faithful servants. Both parables were constructed in the mind of Jesus so Very Credible!!
In John 7…. Jesus goes to the Feast of Tabernacles 3 times. (The Millennium when Jesus is With us and reigns on earth, the Feast of Tabernacles will be celebrated and fulfilled for the 7th Millennial Day - He will Tabernacle among us!) so the John 7 passage is very prophetic. The First time He goes to the Feast - He goes SECRETLY…before the Feast!
Another place I see a reference for is is in Acts 1:11. The angel said Jesus would return in the same way He left. We think with our human minds that Just as He was lifted up, in the same way, He will come down. But I think there is much more than this. Jesus’ Leaving began with His Death on the Cross, His Burial, and Resurrection. The first person to see Him was Mary - BEFORE His first ascension to His Father - He told her “don’t touch Me”…Then He took His blood before the Father and stood before the throne as the Slain Lamb (Rev 5:6) Here is the point He First appeared to Mary - the Woman - the type of the Bride, next He appeared to the two on the road - Servants, and again the same night - He appeared to the Apostles. I believe that True Believers - His Bride, will see Him Before the Second Coming. There are many other references in the Word regarding the Bridal Coming - it’s just hidden!
Prov 25:2
The message of the parable of Luke 12:36 is 'be ready". The word return is misleading, it is a break up, a departure of the wedding to take the bride and have the marriage supper after the Trib (Rev 19:6-9), not before.
Overall, I enjoyed the interview, but "Which is not a rapture at all?" Huh? The rapture doesn't mean airplanes falling out of the sky because pilots are gone. It refers to being 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. I found it used this way in a Bible commentary written before Darby.
It’s important to be in prayer and fasting and watching like Jesus warned us. We don’t have time to divide over teachings. I preach repent, for the reign of heaven is coming. Jesus did the same. “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done.” Study what Jesus said and the Word spoken by the holy prophets.
Yes it is a salvation issue that's what it's all about many people will fall away and curse God and Jesus and their pastor because they were misled yes this is a big salvation issue. Many will not be prepared mentally spiritually physically for this time of tribulation and they'll turn in their brothers and sisters for a morsel of food cuz they don't have faith to get through this tribulation.
Also, that the preTrib teaches the restoration of animal sacrifices AFTER His Son's once for all time, for all men, Sacrifice, reveals it's a massive deception, completely foreign to the Scriptures.
The end is near, it will be extremely upsetting for everyone who enters the great tribulation unnecessarily due to their rapture theory being false, whether their pre- or post-trib theory was false. So, if that frustration increases a person's likelihood of taking the mark of the beast, then it applies equally to both post-tribers and pre-tribers. Isn't that correct?
@@biblehistoryscience3530almost all people that are not pre-tribulation rapture believers. Are preparing mentally physically and spiritually for the time that is coming. Highly unlikely to take the mark. That's the reason why the scripture says children will betray their parents parents will betray each other brother will betrayed brother.
@@theendishere4228, none of you are prepared for the terrible shock that you were deceived into willingly entering the greatest tribulation in human history instead of being received by Jesus to Heaven. And as far as being prepared to die for your faith, that's nothing new. The New Testament has been preparing Christians to face that possibility for nearly 2,000 years.
@@theendishere4228 When I found out all the churches I went to lied about the preTrib, that was frustrating. it is rather very freeing to stop wondering about when He's coming. It's the last day of the world, so I've relaxed about it each day since.
Jogn 6:39-40, 44,54
Pre trib rapture was taught by some in church history but it does not mean it is correct
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
The Pre Trib Rapture Fable was NEVER Taught by any Man of God in Scripture!
No Prophet Prophesied it!
No Apostle Prophesied it!
It is NOT Declared in Scripture!
@@RaptureofSaints AMEN
I stopped believing in the rapture years ago. I do believe Jesus will return. I just don't know when. My prayer is that God keeps me, so that I will never turn away from him.
I attended a lecture by an Orthodox priest a long time ago who responded to the rapture question with this: the teaching of the rapture is a lie from satan to confuse Christians, especially protestants so that they will become discouraged and end up falling prey to satan. I never forgot that because my protestant friends tell me all the time that Christians will not have to go through the tribulation.
I am looking for churches that believe a mid-trib or post tribulation rapture but I can only find churches that teach a "beam me up Lord" pre-tribulation rapture. Pre-trib is taught as true so matter of factly as if it is absolutely true and their entire congregation or even denomination just accept it as if it must be true. Whenever they speak of the tribulation they always say "its terrible but dont worry we wont be there" but I dont find this to be true at all. I can not find a bible believing church that will accept the fact that the Bible teaches tribulation is against the saints and the church that we will go through tribulation and we are not raptured out of tribulation. Are there denominations or churches out there that teach mid trib or post trib rapture? Please help me find some.
I would not base my decision on a church based on there view on the timing of the rapture. This is not a salvation issue. NO church is going to be perfect. This is not something you divide the body of Christ over, blessings
Yep and they all teach the OSAS lie too.
@@davidmaco1 It actually is a salvation issue.
Mattew 24: "21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."
@@davidmaco1 Spot on. Jesus isn't going to deny us access to heaven because we held the wrong vision of the End Times!! LOL I love all these people who are so concerned with getting this right. Hey guess what, if it is pre-trib and you are a genuine believer, you will be pleasantly surprised even though you prepped for mid or post. If it's mid-trib then you have done some preparation and have been living in accordance with some of the talking points this man makes on this video. If it's post-trib, congratulations, you are in the 1% club of all human beings on the planet, because that will be the survival rate of going through the tribulation. If you make it out alive, you get to live through the rest of eternity as a mortal, that has to eat the from the tree of life for the rest of your days. There will be believers in all phases. Some will believe before the rapture. Many more will believe once it occurs (see doubting Thomas). Many will be martyred for the gospel of Jesus Christ. We all have our place in this life. Christ has us where he wants us for specific times and purposes. And whichever events take place he will be there with us through it all. The point is have a relationship with Him and don't worry about when the call comes.
Mike Winger who is a Calvary Chapel pastor teaches a post trib rapture but many Calvary Chapel pastors teach pre-trib. You may have to go church by church and talk to the pastors. But one thing I've noticed about most if not all organized churches is that they have doctrines that evolved over time and are not necessarily Biblical, that is they are pretty much man made. Also, a lot of people within any particular church will have widely different views anyway.
I don't think the Catholic Church teaches a pre-trib "rapture." But you will probably have a lot of problems with many of their doctrines.
Thank you so much. What a wonderful presentation.
Praise God I've learned a lot in my spirit. post tribulation is true and we must be prepared and the pre tribulation will be the cause of great falling away from God's salvation that is if they are walking a spiritual relationship with God
Yes dispensational doctrine teaches the pre trib rapture along with many other false doctrines I believe may be instrumental in the falling away from the faith.
I agree with you utterly.
When you Post Trib lot come back with our Lord , who's alive on the earth to go in to the Millennium , you know , the ones you rule and reign over with Christ , because following your time line means No one will be here when you get back , the earth will be empty. Population Zero .
When I was being presented with the pre-trib rapture teaching, it did not sit right in my spirit; The questions/statements in my mind were: Jesus does not appear 3 times, who would share the gospel to the people left behind, why is this generation so special that we avoid the tribulation and why would Jesus warn us about it, if we were not going to go through it? Hopefully the great falling away is not marked by those whos "blessed hope"is in the pre-tribulation rapture. Thank you for this solid biblical presentation. God bless you.
Matthew 24 has always convinced me of "Post-Tribulation".
The Coming of the Son of Man
Matthew 24:29-30
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
And that is absolutely so. But Dispensationalists insist that Christ is talking to unbelieving Jews rather than His disciples, you and I. Dispensationalism is a perversion of scripture.
Where does Matthew 24 talk about the Changed Church going BACK to Heaven? It DOESN'T!!!!! Change my mind!!!
Remember when reading revelation sometimes John will say then this happened then this happened.. then other times he won’t say it in chronological order he just states things he saw. You can’t say revelation happens in the order it is written.
It is confusing. I suspect it is meant to be. But I also think it will become clearer as we near the time of the end as a number of things have become clearer. One obvious example concerns the two witnesses and how the entire world can see their dead bodies in the streets of Jerusalem. That wasn't possible, as one person pointed out, until the 1960's. Just a thought.
Seeing as how the revelation 12 sign happened almost 5 years ago I absolutely agree. Just bc it’s in revelation doesn’t mean it’ll happen during the last 7 years or the “tribulation”.
Life Application Bible teaches this conclusion you are speaking about. I learned it on my own via the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I also have a NIV Life Application Study Bible.Could you please point me to where I can find this.Thank you.
With four simple steps we can determine whether the rapture takes place before, or during, or after the tribulation.
1.According to Matthew 24:29 the sun is darkened "immediately after" the tribulation:
▬ "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
2. According to Revelation 6:12 the sun is darkened at the opening of the sixth seal.
▬ "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." (Revelation 6:12-14)
So we know that the tribulation is over at the opening of the sixth seal, when the sun is darkened.
3.The resurrection and rapture, however, take place "at the last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52) . . . at the seventh of the seven trumpet soundings that comprise the *_seventh_* seal. The apostle Paul describes this in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54:
▬ "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:50-54)
And here is another account, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17:
▬ "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)
4. Given that the tribulation is over at the opening of the _sixth_ seal, and the rapture takes place at the "last trump" of the _seventh_ seal, it is obvious the rapture takes place after the tribulation.
The events, in order:
"Immediately after" the tribulation, the sixth-seal darkening of the sun and moon take place, followed by all the remaining events of the sixth seal (Revelation 6:13 through 7:17). After that, the seventh seal is opened, and the first six trumpets of the seventh seal (Revelation 8:1 through 11:14) take place. Within those 6 trumpets we have the two witnesses and the "beast" who kills them (Rev 11:1-10), reigns for 42 months (Rev 13:5) and "makes war" (Rev 13:7, Dan 7:21,25) on the people of God. At sounding of the "last trump" (1 Cor 15:52) - the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15) - the resurrection and rapture take place. The same 7th trumpet announces the impending wrath of God (Rev 11:18). That wrath is poured out "upon the men which had the mark of the beast" (Rev 16:1,2). The church will escape that wrath: they will have been raptured just beforehand. During the wrath, the beast gathers armies (Rev 16:12-16). Jesus, accompanied by His raptured church, defeats the beast (Rev 19:11-21; Zech 14:1-7). Jesus and His church rule the Kingdom of God here on earth for 1000 years (Rev 20:6; 5:9,10; Isaiah 2:4 and many more).
So we see that the tribulation is not the wrath of God. And we see that the beast is in power after the tribulation has ended. So, what is the tribulation?
It is a time so bad that unless it was cut short, no one would survive it. Jesus described it in Matthew 24:21,22:
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
My opinion: The tribulation is probably wartime use of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction . . . a time so bad that unless it were cut short, no one would survive it.
ruclips.net/video/fPNUOf3KYVU/видео.html
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
I have a question that I have asked many many people who hold the post trib position. No one ever gives me an answer. But you seem to have spent a great deal of time studying this so perhaps you might give me an answer. In John 14 Jesus said He was going to the Father's house to prepare a place for us. He said He would come again and receive us unto Himself so that we would be where He was. (in the Father's house) So my question is simple. Where does this John 14 scenario fit in the post trib rapture view?
@@robbymacklin Go and READ all of John Chapter 14 and you will then get your answer!
It all Fits Together so well!
Every Single believer in God that has ever Lived is going to be in that House when Jesus Comes!
All that Partake in the First Resurrection at Christs COMING will Receive that Promise!
Jesus made it Clear, where He will be we will be also!
WHEN Jesus COMES again after the Great Tribulation He will Receive us all to Himself and we will be in the Fathers House, JUST as Jesus Promised us!
What an amazing Time we will have with Jesus during the 1,000 Year Reign on the Earth, we will all be with Jesus here on the Earth!
I WILL Trust what Jesus and Paul say about our Lords COMING which is Post Trib, Post Apostasy, Post Revealing of that Man of Sin!
I will never Trust the Deceptive Destructive Pre Trib Lie!
WATCH this ruclips.net/video/tOEAUJSOh-0/видео.html
@@robbymacklin If you want a Good answer to your Question watch this Short Video that answers your Question which is the TRUTH! ruclips.net/video/tOEAUJSOh-0/видео.html
@@robbymacklin ruclips.net/video/tOEAUJSOh-0/видео.html
Typically erodite and gracious words from the lips of Dr. Brown - I am not sure I agree with the case that he makes but I wholeheartedly agree with his statements about such matters regarding dogmatism. Cause for me to revisit the scriptures on this topic and take it afresh to God in prayer. God bless you all - to those who know Him not, come to Jesus while there is yet time!
I found Revelationlogic.com to be very, very enlightening as I prayed and asked God to show me truth. God bless!
Speaking of fear and turning it around by a deeper relationship with the Lord:
Peter went from denying Jesus, then becoming converted, then said he didn’t deserve to die as his Lord and requested to be hung upside down. That is fearless. Amen!
Very good, practical and common sense words from Dr. Michael Brown.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
@@SpotterVideo And the most specific mention regarding the timing of our gathering together to Christ is in 2 Thes 2.
@@robertbrown6879 That passage has been re-interpreted by pretribbers today differently than the understanding for almost 1800 years.
During earlier times most Bible scholars believed it meant the Church would not be gathered to Christ until after a great apostacy in the faith. Some pretribbers today claim it means the opposite.
@@SpotterVideo It can't mean the opposite. It's beyond ridiculous. Do I have to spell it out why it is ridiculous?
@@robertbrown6879 No. I understand it completely.
Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Compare that verse to
“And at that time shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”
Daniel 12:1-3
@@nicholasdibari9095 thanks
It makes no sense that we would meet Jesus in the air and escort him back to the earth.
Debbie Packer, I agree that doesn't make sense. But Paul used the Greek word _apantesis_ “a meeting” in 1 Thess 4:17 to described the saints rising to “meet” Jesus in the air at the rapture. And that's a technical term for special meetings, such as when townsfolk went out to meet dignitaries then escort them back in, so post-tribers claim that proves the saints are going up and straight back down.
However, the word is just about special meetings. Where everyone goes afterwards depends on the custom of various events. Jesus used the same word in his Matt 25 parable of ten virgins who went out to “meet” the bridegroom, and wedding feasts were customarily held at his house (or his Father's house in the case of Jesus Christ), so that blows their claims that this word is evidence for an up-down rapture ride.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 In believe in the pre trib.
@@debbipacker4215, I'm mid-trib, which is very similar to pre-trib but more accurate IMHO.
The word meet in 1 thess 4 is the same as in biblical times when a king would return to a city, people would go out and meet him and escort him back into the city, same thing here. Rev 16, same thief. We meet Christ in the air and go to Armageddon
@@issuesthatmatter2825, you ignored the fact that the definition of the Greek word _apantesis_ has nothing to do with where people go after meetings. And Jesus' use of the word in Matt 25 disproves what post-trib teachers claim about it, but you've ignored these facts and tried to tie the word to Rev 16 where it isn't even used. As long as you ignore things that people say which refute your interpretation, you will never learn the truth.
It can become a salvation issue when people find out that they were lied to and they found themselves smacked in the middle of the tribulation And then I become offended at.God
So a person born again during the age of grace will need to change to a works based Gospel during the tribulation? How does that work?
The gospel doesn't change during the Great Tribulation - it's the same then as it is now.
I have heard pre tribbers say that the "restrainer" in 2 Thessalonians is the Holy Spirit because He will leave with the Church. But somehow the "Rapture Saints" mentioned after it will be saved without the Holy Ghost.
I am very afraid that the pre-trib camp will be woefully unprepared in their hearts lose their faith. This may be the cause of "the great falling away.?
It will DEFINITELY factor largely in the great apostasy. And some of them might even betray those who prepared for post-trib.
The great falling away is well underway, and has been for years.
Just how would s/one "PREPARE" for the tribulation? Aren't we told in scripture to await His COMING, not any tribulation?
Explain what you refer to as the "GREAT FALLING AWAY"? Is that s/thing that can be numbered, measured? Will it be obvious? If you're wanting to use the passage in *Thess* for that "falling away" phrase, I'd suggest you do some more study on that.
Yes
@@Kman. Matthew 24: 9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
God has not appointed the church to His Wrath (The Tribulation) but to obtain salvation.
Wrath and Judgment are two different things. Consider where the Israelites were during ALL TEN plagues -- Egypt! EVERYONE went through the Tribulation together, even God's chosen ones; but when both groups tried to get through the Red Sea, only those who were covered by the Lamb escaped his wrath. Judgements -- all went through, experiencing Divine Protection along the way (Light in Goshen; Passover). Wrath? (Red Sea) -- only those under God's protection escaped! Same with Great Tribulation: I believe we will all go through it, experiencing Divine protection along the way. But in the end, only those who cling to the Name of Jesus will be saved.
Sorry to hear that Dr Brown doesn't believe in the rapture.
He believes in a rapture, but it doesn't happen until after the GT, immediately before the wrath of God.
@@kenklein9228 then read 2Tessalonian 2:7-8.......verse 7 is the church,the anti christ in 8.the church must be out of the way....by means of the rapture,after the rapture is the 7 yr GT
@@loodvanschalkwyk2869 I've read that, and I've not seen a pre Trib rapture in those verses. We don't know what's meant by "the restrainer" being out of the way, but if it's a reference to the Holy Spirit, it's not being taken off the earth, just being out of the way of the anti Christ.
@@kenklein9228 that is the church Ken.
@@loodvanschalkwyk2869 No one's been able to show me where in that scripture, or in any other scripture, that we're told, "the church will be raptured before the GT". And in fact, Christ tells us in Matthew 24 that we'll be here for the GT. And no, Christ wasn't talking to the Jews.
Dr. Brown (whose work with Jews and bringing them to Faith I have the utmost respect for -- but whose eschatology has apparently suffered due to his dedication to the aforementioned efforts) seems to put a lot of weight on this idea that the "last _trump"_ (not "trumpet") of 1Thess 4 simply _must_ refer to the 7th Trumpet Judgment in Revelation. This is the result of a combination of exegetical pareidolia and less than careful reading of the text. Here's just a few reasons which Dr. Brown is wrong, here (and there are others):
First of all, the "trump" of 1Thess is just that -- a _"trump"_ -- which is not the instrument called a "trumpet" itself, but rather _the sound which that instrument makes._ Secondly, the Rapture in 1Thess involves _Jesus Himself_ coming for His Bride (it does not say that angels come to catch us up) -- whereas the 7th Trumpet in Rev is sounded by _an angel!_ (Attempts to turn the angel with the 7th Trumpet into the Lord Himself fail miserably, as I shall also demonstrate).
Moreover, the Rapture is an event which happens *in an instant, in the **_"twinkling of an eye"_* -- whereas a careful reading of the 7th Trumpet shows that this happens *over **_multiple days!!!_* The text reads: _"But _*_in the DAYS_*_ of the voice of the seventh angel, when he _*_shall begin to sound,_*_ the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."_
And the REAL kicker?? Dr. Brown and his Post-Trib advocate/Pre-Trib opponent colleagues often deride the Pre-Trib position as believing in "two comings." He actually does it here, in this video-- multiple times. But if someone wants to claim that this "mighty" angel with the 7th trumpet is actually the Lord Himself -- as I suppose they must, in a vain attempt to reconcile the trumpET of Rev 10 with the fact that it is the Lord Himself who gathers us in 1Thess 4 -- then in fact *it is **_they_** who believe in "TWO Second Comings" -- because the angel of Rev **_actually sets foot on earth!_* (verses 2 & 4 explicitly say the angel places one foot on the sea and the other on earth)!! The irony is RICH!
In reality, we Pre-Tribbers *do not* believe in "two Second Comings" -- as His "Coming" shall be _to earth,_ and the Rapture is us going up to meet Him _in Heaven!_ It's practically the OPPOSITE: It is _us_ going to _Him_ -- NOT Him Coming to earth! (as opposed to the fact that, in the first of the "two Second Comings" which the Post-Tribber believes in -- where the "mighty angel" with the Seventh Trumpet sets one foot on the sea and the other on earth -- IS AN _ACTUAL_ additional "Coming" [to earth]!!
Dr. Brown's work evangelizing Jews and arguing for the Messiahship of the Lord Jesus is second to none -- but it really seems like all the time he has invested in this important and excellent work has come at the cost of a less-than-careful study of eschatological matters.
It is not distressing, the issue is that many preachers and families of Christianity/denominations are from 2nd, 3rd or more generations.
If a preacher preaches a post tribulation rapture usually gets thrown out of his or her family or church. Basically, it is a financial thing.
Great presentation!
Great video, I'm somewhere between mid and post.
Amen. Many people don't even thinkTribulation has started.
as a pastor I dont teach this easy gospel thank you for this video its encouraging
"Straw man" brother, straw man. In o/words, you've GOT no argument.
@@Kman. please explain I m not sure I get you. I just want to be clear. Easy gospel I refer to a gospel but no repentance or responsibility .
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
As a pastor, you should absolutely know the bible enough to realize this is a false teaching. The rapture is biblically Pre trib. These people are false teachers to deceive those who don't read and look for the secrets hidden in the books of the bible.
Thank you Dr Brown for your Truth testimony. Daniel’s 70th is fast approaching - Grace & Peace.
If 69 weeks has been all about the JEWS, how is it you want to try and fit the CHURCH into the70th week?
Is the New Covenant found in Daniel chapter 9?
Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant. Or, is the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28? The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby showed up on our shores. What was the earlier understanding of Daniel 9:27 found below in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible?
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Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
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During recent years many New Covenant scholars have examined Daniel chapter 9 from a New Covenant perspective. Did Christ fulfill the summary found in Daniel 9:24? Is it about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary?
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (These two verses are quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The death of the Messiah is found in Daniel 9:26, and there are only two possible singular antecedents for the word “he” in the next verse. Those antecedents are either Christ or Titus, who was the prince of the people that destroyed the temple during 70 AD.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Is the “he” in Daniel 9:27 the “Messiah”, or “the prince” of the people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary in verse 26? If we used “the people of the prince” it would not be a singular “he”.
Does the author of the Book of Hebrews connect the New Covenant with the Messiah’s death found in Daniel 9:26, in the verse below?
Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (NKJV)
Verse 26 also says the Messiah would be cut off “after” the 69 weeks. If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week, or after. Is there a “gap” of almost 2,000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week, or was it fulfilled during the first century when the Gospel was preached “first” to the Jews?
We know there is a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as the Apostle Paul said in the verse below.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people during the first century? If we can, we have good evidence that the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled.
Did Christ command His disciples to take the Gospel only to Israel in the passage below?
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
Is the time period when the Gospel was preached “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews in the passage above, confirmed in the passage below?
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
In the passage above Luke confirms the fact that the Gospel of Christ was preached throughout the land of Israel after the baptism which John preached. Here again, we have a text which reveals a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as Paul said in Romans 1:16.
Bible scholars have looked at the number of Passover celebrations in the Gospels and have estimated Christ’s earthly ministry to have lasted about three and one half years. Was the Gospel taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews for a period of about three and one half years during the period of time revealed in the Gospels?
In Galatians 1:14-18 Paul reveals he did not go up to see Peter until about 3 years after his conversion. During that time the Gospel continued to be taken almost exclusively to Daniel's people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
Read the recent book "The 70th Week of Daniel 9 DECODED" by David Wilcoxson for confirmation of the above.
@@SpotterVideo Your view is what the commentaries of old say, they did not have a view of a gap of 2000 years but saw the 70th week fulfilled in the first century. They tried an interpretation, but came to different conclusions. Only Gill saw in the prince in verse 26 the Antichrist, at least he mentioned it. The gap of 2000 years seems to be of newer time. The English translations are misleading, the Hebrew "ve kizo" =but (and) his end, refers to the prince, who is last mentioned in the Hebrew text. And he is destroyed through a food. by God's judgement at the end. That is NOT Titus and not Christ. Your interpretation fails, because the time given are about the last days. Dan 9:24-27 is about the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel, which is still future.Christ came in His first time to fulfill the spiritual restoration and He comes the second time to fulfill the natural restoration. Israel rejected their King and will face the wrong Antichrist who is coming. All this is still future, it did not happen in the first centenary,, satan was not bound etc.
Thank you Doctor Brown.
Can you show me the verses that make it clear that the tribulation is 7 years?
I've been searching, but cannot find a single reference that is clear. But there are many references to 3 1/2 years of tribulation (also described as 42 months; 1260 days; time, times, and half a time, in Dan 7:25, 12:7, Rev 12:6, 14, 13:5, etc.), but nothing about 7 years of tribulation.
Even Daniel's 70th week in Daniel 9:26-27 implies that the tribulation is the second half of that week, or 3 1/2 years.
Any assistance is appreciated.
Thank you
He can't. That's why he has to spiritualize things. That way he can make it up and it all sound so neat and perfect. Read the bible literally. Learn to discern the differences between Mystery/Church and the Nation of Israel. Do these things and alot of the confusion is cleared up.
Simple, the saint and the dead in christ will rise first and we are alive will be cought up in ther air.. Post tribulation is a true and exact teaching.. We are all over comers true..
I believe most of Christ's followers will be taken out of the way (killed), but there will be some left standing according to the Bible, yes we will go through Tribulation.
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
Rapture is imminent...
@@TheMistysFavs no, 2Thess2:3 is very clear,
@@jamietownsend3677 the falling away is in reference to people departing from the Truth, not being killed
I love these type of interviews
It is a salvation issue. Jesus said He wont come back until there is a falling away . This false doctrine is a major reasons people will fall away. We are being prepped for it
Yep - that's a part of why people won't be prepared. However, many of us who KNOW that we'll be going through the Great Tribulation won't be prepared either unless we embrace the Lord's discipline.
If all of us Christians lived our lives with the belief that at any moment, Jesus could rapture us to be with Him, then we would be focused on fulfilling the great commission and putting Jesus first in our daily lifestyle habits and actions, and all other things would become less important. Post tribulation believers can’t live this way. I pray today is the day Jesus returns for His Bride. Maranatha.
The book of Matthew is speaking to the Jews. They will be in the tribulation. That is why he finds the answers he does. If he read the book of Luke as the Bride, he would see the rapture of the bride. Even the Lord's prayer is different in the 2 books. In Luke it is for the Bride. In Matthew they are asking to be protected from the evil one. Being taught from Matthew is causing extreme confusion for saved Christians.
…”but for the ELECTS sake the days were shortened”. Matthew 24:21-22
Elect is the church. Let the Bible define the Bible. The church will go thru tribulation but will be saved from wrath.
Jesus places coming for the bride at His 2nd coming Matt 25
Post Tribulation is the ONLY Doctrine that Jesus, Matthew, Mark and Luke and John Taught the Church!
Post Apostasy and Post Revealing of that Man of Sin is the ONLY Doctrine that Paul the Apostle Taught the Church!
Post Tribulation is what Daniel wrote and Instructed by God and Gods Messenger!
Only False Prophets and Seducers and Deceivers Prophesy that Jesus is Come before the Tribulation and during the Tribulation!
Jesus said to NOT believe such people and to NOT follow after such people!
Jesus said that False Christs MUST Come and Deceive many Before He will Come!
Elect is Israel. Like throughout the entire Bible.
Yes, Dr Brown, I have just come to this conclusion this past week. For me the biggest problem as you highlighted was that with the pre-trib view there are 2 raptures but this does not tie in with Scripture. Scripture only speaks of one rapture not 2. So if the rapture is at the outset of the tribulation according to the pre-trib view then there would by neccessity be 2 raptures. Only today have I seen from mostly the Old Testament that Jesus Christ will return to save His people ie the Jews that remain on the earth at that time and set up His millenial kingdom a time of peace and prosperity for Israel which Paul also spoke about in Romans chapter 11. For most Gentile Christians they cannot see this or understand it but yet Paul referenced this as another one of the incredible mysteries hidden from man : Romans 11 verse 25 'For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of THIS MYSTERY, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fulness of Gentiles has come in.' I further agree that this is not an essential of the faith or that it will not determine our eternal destiny that is safe and secure providing we know that we are found in Christ by faith alone or justified by faith in Christ alone. What this does do however is is reinforce God's power, authority, sovereignity and providence in upholding His people until the very end as He who is infinitely capable of not only saving His elect but that He is able to uphold and sustain them in all circumstances as we already know from Romans 8 verse 28. God is in ultimate control of everything that happens in the entire universe even as He raises nations to do His bidding and destroys nations and even as He is also in control of a Gentile king to do His divine bidding as we read in Isaiah 45 speaking about Cyrus whom God used to set His people free after 70 years in Babylonian captivity. Personally it fills me with tremendous encouragement that my Heavenly Father is in perfect control of everything in the entire universe which includes my eternal abode which Christ has secured for me through His death on the cross reconciling me to God the Father and giving me new life and a glorious blessed hope - in spite of what may happen on this side of eternity.
Jesus and Paul never said anything about a second rapture. Pretrib is wrong.
@@charleswesley9907 Both Paul and John wrote of a pre-trib Rapture. 2:Thess 1-7 Rev. 6:11, 12:5. you need to read your bible and get educated.
@@rickhuntling7338 Not very many Pretribbers read past Chapter 4 of Revelations, I am very aware of what John wrote in Revelations . Pretribbers dont know that Jesus said Surely or Behold I come quickly 3 times in the last book of Revelations . Who was he talking to? Christians ! Not left behind Christians . And Pretribbers never read Chapter 14 where John gives a sequence of events which puts the Reaping of the Earth after the Mark of the Beast. And in 2nd Thess 2 The brightness of his coming reveals the Antichrist.
@@charleswesley9907 Post-Tribbers don't read Rev. 2:22 where the Church of Thyatira is threatened with great tribulation except they repent nor do they read Rev. 3:10 were they are kept from the temptation put on the world. Charles are you of this world? Jn. 17:14.
Post-Tribbers don't read Rev. 6:11 where the bride is recieving wedding garments at the altar but the Post-Tribbers foolish virgins need to be martyred for the little season aka 70th week, Great Tribulation, Jacob's trouble not the Church's trouble.
Post-Tribbers don't read Rev. 12:5 where HIS Body is "Harpazo" to HIS throne with a lot of Israel in prophecy left to be fulfilled.
Jude 14 Zech. 14:5 says HE brings HIS saints with HIM.
Isa. 26:19-21 Resurection > goto him> hid in "many mansions" while the indignation passes> then HE leaves HIS place to judge the inhabitants of the world. I ask again are you of this world?
Did JESUS lie to them in Jn. 14:1-4?
Rev. 14:1-4 Messianc Jews and the Church redeemed in as HIS First Fruits to GOD and the Lamb. Verse 8 Babyon has fallen aka Islam. After the reaping is the killing with no gathering going on. Remember Jude 14 & Zech. 14:5 have us brought with HIM in 14:14.
@@rickhuntling7338 You know what ? I dont believe you have prpoerly read Matt.25 about the 10 Virgins. The message is to carry more oil so you can for sure endure until the Groom comes. Pretribbers twist it to mean the lamp oil is the Spirit. Its not . The extra vessel of oil the Wise virgin has is literally lamp oil.
Rev 2:22 does not apply to a rapture timing,
All of your verses except Rev.14 is not remotely associated with the Rapture event, . In Rev. 14 the events that come includes the Mark of the beast , the Saints, Babylon is fallen,the Mark of the Beast, then the rapture.
Then Matthew 24 verse 13 says He that endureth unto the end , the Same shall be saved . Matt. 24 verse 29 thru 31 ,Immediatly after the Trib. 2nd Thess 2 is where Paul says that day , the Rapture which was the subject of the letter would not happen until the Son of Sin is revealed , To the World by the brightness of his Jesus coming. There is no left behind . And I dont believe you are going to be able to resist the Mark of the Beast and neither do you so you have to believe Pretrib. Pretrib is the Strong Delusion.
Thank you! Pre trib believers please understand you will endure tribulation! I believe there will be martyrdom for most as well but God will hold you fast if you keep your faith. Even if through persecution and death!
If Christ relationship to the Church is fashioned after the Jewish wedding, when does the "Chuppah" occur where the groom comes to catch away his bride and spend the 7-day/year in Father's house and then have the marriage supper of the Lamb, just prior to his second coming as spoken about in Rev 19.
The end of the age scenario as given to us by scripture is this: 1) birth pangs (we're deep into them now) 2) The GT 3) The gathering (rapture) 4) God's wrath is poured out - that's the bowls (the marriage supper is during God's wrath) 5) Christ's return to touch down on the Mt. of Olives with us in tow.
Thanks..... bro Michael for youre, opinion!