Chisel Sharpening - 17 Degree Chisel | Why you need one
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Rob shows you how to make a 17 degree chisel for softwoods
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Learn how to properly use a wheel style marking gauge here: ruclips.net/video/ADCUUWDTYo4/видео.html
Great info again, on everything.
I was talking with someone recently about taking a chisel to a grinding wheel, and they said you can't because it spins too fast, overheats the chisel, and causes the temper to the lost... this of course isn't 100% true, but knowledge is needed to do it right.
Are there different bench grinders that spin slower or faster for different purposes? I realise this CBN wheel (which I hadn't heard of before) will help greatly to alleviate the problem.
I found a Shapton 16000 grit sharpening stone at a great price. It is all you said it would be. It puts the final edge on the tool that I need. Thanks for sharing your experience, Rob.
So glad you found a great stone. Sharpton 16k are the cats meow
Haven't seen you since the old hidden hinge box vids. Like the new look!
always enjoy, learn so much from Rob, liking new camera, picture is amazing
Thanks
I’ll do anything to reduce fibers getting crushed and ripped on softer woods. Good fun seeing this kind of suggestion. Most will go with the conformity instead of going wild and far outside the normal. 25 degrees on everything can be thrown out the window for a chisel or two.
17 degree works great, in softwoods
Thanks Rob for all the tutorials on sharpening chisels and planes. I've watched them over and over till they sunk in. I'm partially dyslexic and even after 44 years in engineering I still need to go over things. I polished the back of my chisels as you instructed using a 400 and 1000 diamond plate and finished with 2000 grit. As a retired guy can afford, but it works well. My chisels which aren't top brand, but good steel are razor sharp and hold that edge. The planes are a pleasure to use, paper thin shavings.
I have applied similar methods to sharpen the kitchen knives and they hold their edge for months. My wife on the odd occasion loses, thankfully only a bit of finger nail. Thank you again for making my life that much more enjoyable and easier at the bench. Time to try some dove tailing. Regards; Joe.
Thanks Joe. I really like we help get you points with your wife. Send us some pics of your dovetails
I'm making an Anarchist toolchest out of basswood. I cut 90% of the dovetails with a 25 degree chisel. I saw the video and converted my extra 1/2" to 17 degrees. What a difference, cuts cleaner and faster. Wish I would have done it sooner. Thanks for all you do for the community.
Thanks for another informative video. I've learned a lot from this channel and love to get that notification of new video. I hope Jake's doing OK with that foot. It looked like his camera work in this one. I hope it was his anyway. If so it's a good sign that he's figuring out how to run the camera without aggrivating the injury. Hang in there fellas. Your fans appreciate you.
It was filmed before he broke his foot!!!!
I’m sorry about Super Dave. I hope his family and everyone that knew him are doing as good as can be. My empathy and prayers for all.
We miss him soooo much. All are doing as well as can be expected
Quick question.. Lie Nielsen gets a lot of praise over in the states, but they recommend a 25 degree bevel with a 30 degree secondary due to the brittle A2 steel. Would this be something you just couldn't do with LN chisels?
Great tip. Will have to try it soon
you will like it
Thanks again Rob you are so helpful. Julien Lamarche
I am so glad you found it helpful
Thanks for a great review
Thanks for watching
Thanks Rob! Go Cougs!
You bet
I have a set of not-very-expensive japanese chisels that I would like to dedicate for low angle like this…any reason to think that might not work out well? Thanks for all the great tutorials….
Thanks Rob. Had a friend who was making a portable tool chest tote with dovetails. He was practicing quite a bit before working on the project. He was getting end grain break out like you. He had seen your prior videos, bought an inexpensive new Irwin Marples chisel and sharpened like you mentioned. Problem solved. It really does work.
A side question, I have asked for father's day to get a grinding (the Rikon 1/3rd horsepower). If one side is an 80 grit CBN, what would you put on the other side? Mostly plan to use the grinding wheel for chisel and plane blades and woodworking stuff if that helps.
I like to put a 3M deburring wheel on the other side for polishing up metal and depurring if needed
Thanks!!
You bet
Nice video. Just FYI, CBN is cubic boron nitride. It has the same structure as diamond: hence its hardness. It contains no carbon.
Thanks for correcting me....
Love your videos man i am 13 and love woodworking and want to be just like you one day
That's great to hear from the younger generation. Work hard, don't be afraid to make mistakes, and learn from them. We're rooting for you young man.
Thanks for commenting Darrian. I love hearing from young woodworkers like you. What subject should I shoot the next video on?
That's soooo sweet 😋
This guy would is a good template to model after. I went with Stephen Segal, don't do that kid.
Wonderful Video!
Let me tell you that CBN means Cubic Bor Nitride, there is no Carbon hid in these Shortcut word.
Best Wishes 🤣!
Pretty clear that tearout is dependent on the pressure that the bevel puts on the wood, not the sharpness of the edge. Lower bevel angle, less pressure. You could reduce tearout a great deal by sawing as close as possible to the finished dimension before breaking out the chisel.
I saw very close to my final dimension and i still get tear out, thus why I went to a 17 degree chisel
Rob, I didn’t find the links in the comments to the CBN wheel or the after market grinder tool rest
here it is : robcosman.com/products/rob-cosmans-cbn-grinding-wheel-8
Hi Rob, another great video! I’ve got a lot of VG Douglas Fir and was hoping to build a few things featuring dovetails. A test run the other night didn’t fair that well. The earlywood crushed on the board surface rather than breaking out further into the cut. The fir has a Janka hardness of 660 … what do you think might yield the best results?
I had this same problem with Doug Fir, the Spring wood is spongy, the summer wood is dense and hard. The only solution was to use quarter-sawn lumber that allowed me to be cutting both rings of grain at the same time. Spring can be cut with 17°, but the summer folds it. Maybe somewhere around 21-22°?
Thanks Rob! I’ll experiment a little with this. Hopefully I’ll find something that will give a decent result. Great to see you again! It’s been a long time my friend. Margaret and I have moved back out to the BC coast, and we are hiding out on Salt Spring Island. My new shop is slowly taking shape.
Rob, to reset your tool rest to 17 degrees again next time, you could make a "story stick." I'm talking of course about something with a rectangular cross section, maybe 3/4" x 1/4"... not too thick so as to not fit alongside the wheel. Lay the stick on the already set tool rest and extend it up alongside the wheel--- far enough so that the edge of the wheel intersects the stick at two locations. Mark those locations. That's it... done. So to reset the tool rest to that 17 degree angle you just manipulate it until you can get the marks on the story stick to again correspond to the wheel edge intersection points. (You do also have to shift the story stick in and out to determine this, but it's not difficult.)
Good idea. I probably wont use it because I can do it so quickly on my own and I would just lose the story stick anyway...but its a great idea
Indeed... I've lost mine already! (I had it set for the customary 25 degrees.)
I am curious, if that 17 degree angle is more advantageous for a mortising chisel?
No that would be way too fragile for a mortising chisel
cubic boron nitride
Yes, thanks
👍
💗👌🙏
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Mans got construction hands
They are a bit chapped, eh?
I have many antique chisels AND plane blades that were ground at 17 - 20 degrees, probably 100+ years ago before they were put in a tool chest for the last time. So, I have been re-grinding at those bevels and honing a bit higher. It is rare that the edge fails. If it does I just hone higher and all is good. The Old Guys knew what they were doing! Thanks for the great content you put out!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Gotta love those old guys
Thanks for the tip Rob! I recently experienced tear out exactly like this while cutting dovetails in pine. My chisel was good and sharp, it was frustrating to say the least. I would have never figured this out on my own. Thanks again.
It works great in pine
Love your work, and thanks for posting, always furthers my education.
Thanks for watching and commenting
Why not just buy the 17 deg. from IBC and forget the frustration of grinding? All you have to do is keep the secondary edge sharp. At the price of an IBC mortise chisel, I’m not going to re-grind.
It’s awful humid where I live. What are your thoughts on using cold bluing on my chisels? I have some left over from restoring an old pistol.
My Narex chisels curl up at 17 degrees while working in spruce. Sometimes I would like to experience those "too hard" chisels some people warn woodworkers about.
Spruce is 700 on the Janka scale so it doesn't surprise me you get folding. The hardest I will take my 17 degree to is poplar at 500 on the Janka scale
Good info, but what is that line at the cutting edge at 12:19?
RC looking like the wolverine.
I think what is happening with the 25 degree bevel is the force applied to the fibers from the wedging action overcome the wood fibers tensile strength. This results in these chunks being ripped out of the face. With the lower bevel angle, the forces of the wedging action are applied over a longer distance which allow the fibers to be cut before breaking.
I agree with you
My friend, I have worn my hair long since the '60's. But I always tie it back around power tools. In that one moment you lean in to get a closer look at your work, you can lose your scalp. Love your channel - be safe.
Good safety tip
If your uncertain as to where your new bevel is fall. You might use dycum or use a sharpie and mark the face between grinds. As we age our eyesight can play games.
What is dycum?
If you could only have one size of a 17 degree chisel, what would it be? 1/2 inch?
No I would likely go thinner as I use mine mostly for dovetails , probably 3/8"
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Cubic boron nitride/CBN. The only thing harder than boron is diamond. Think it was 3M who developed it, but not positive. As a 30 year woodturner, I loved them when they first came out. As a production bowl turner, they will last around 5 years in a production set up. They are made specifically for sharpening 'hardened' metals. This will include good bench chisels and plane irons. As for grinding carbide, I wouldn't. I did once, and my wheel was never the same. It will greatly reduce the life of your wheel. Diamond is for grinding carbide, and even on slow speed grinders, the diamonds will degrade with the heat generated. Diamond wheels are fine on the Tormek system, and any of its clones.
The shallower angle does the same thing that skewing your plane does. It reduces the cutting angle which makes it easier for the cutting edge to get under the wood fibers and lift them more gently as you cut.
Also, that is the Wolverine sharpening system from Oneway, who make very good lathes. The CBN wheels come both spin and bubble balanced, so they are ready to go right out of the box. Having 'helical' washers helps them to run true. The nuts that come standard on the grinders are not precision ground, so that can cause run out in your wheel. Because of the concave/convex shapes of the helical washers, the nut will tighten with equal pressure on all parts of the wheel. Many are made of steel, some are made with aluminum hubs. Not sure that there is any real difference between them other than weight. A 1/2 hp grinder is a bit underpowered for running the steel wheels, and even the aluminum wheels. The cheap grinder to get is the 1 hp Rikon grinder. I have mine set up on a 3/4 hp Baldor, and start up time to full speed is the same for the Rikon and Baldor. Of course, since these are solid metal wheel hubs, there is no risk at all of them ever blowing up. They do come in 1 1/2 inch width, which is my preference. With some grinders, you can not attach the outside wheel guard. While it isn't necessary because of being solid metal. they do help contain the metal dust, and some metals are toxic. The metal dust will float around the shop like wood dust does. One turner hung a magnet 10 feet away from his grinding station, and it collected metal dust. Some will put magnets in baggies to help gather the dust. I would prefer a dust collection set up that is designed for the home shop. Most are industrial grade, which is far more than I want to spend. While sparks are minimal, there are still some. Also, the accumulated metal dust in the bottom of the wheel guards can ignite from sparks dropping into them. Not common, but some have found glowing embers in that dust. They do have side grind options which I would expect to be good for flattening the backs of your chisels and plane irons. They do come in grits up to 1000.
All good comments, thanks
Awesome video! Thanks Rob
I’m going to be out of commission for four months with a ankle fusion, but when I’m ready to go back to work in my garage I’ll order the grinding wheel and a ruler for sharpening my plane knife.
Microtome knives used in Histopathology usually have a 17 degree bevel, and using a base sledge easily can section wood down to microns. Angling the blade can effectively further reduce the angle presentation, for finer shavings. (Retired Med. Scientist)
I've been sharpening chisels like this forever. With the way you sharpen using a micro-bevel you can use these same chisels for harder wood if you use a steeper micro-bevel angle.
Was JUST telling somebody this yesterday!
Where do I find the link for the cbn grinding wheel?
Very nice tip...I believe you comment about 17⁰ bevel before and since that I choose one Finish good quality chisel for this job (60's one) so it stay sharp longer because soft wood and excellent steel...That sharpening wheel not avaiable in Brazil
Thank you!
I am surprised there is no CBN avaliable
If I'm understanding correctly, this is actually about an 18-20° actual edge? I'm assuming not all chisels can handle that. LN I assume would be able to.
Absolutely LN can take a 17 degree angle. Softwoods ONLY
@RobCosmanWoodworking - what steel is best for this? I've heard A2 crumbles on such a fine edge
All I use is A2 and no it does not crumble
Thanks Rob! Always appreciate your videos/knowledge...
I love sharing it
Wonderful video for the new method of chiseling out dovetails and sharpening.
Thanks for commenting
You don’t need to grind down to the edge to be able to measure the angle.
There are several ways this is the way I do it
Another approach to minimizing the tear out, in many cases eliminating it, is to NOT saw out the bulk of the tail with a fret saw and simply chop out the tail old-school style with a standard chisel. The tail resting on the bench prevents the fibers being chopped from rotating under the force of the bevel and pulling out from the chop line area. No special angle on the chisel is needed and 25 degrees works fine. Give it a try and see if it works for you as it does for me. The time difference between both methods is small.
Paul
I have not had that experience
love the new intro and the hair LOL!! i will drop in again when we come to fredericton in august
Yes come on by
going full grizzly adams in protest now. love it
But long hair is bugging me
Very interesting, I will have to try this. Time for a hair cut sport! 😂
Soon, but no haircut yet
Good tip for chiseling that I'll have to remember.
Try it you will like it
I like you Rob but that new intro is godawful!
the positive comments are running about 10 to 1 to negative comments on the new opening.
Wow, makes perfect sense. I've had this problem with joinery in softwoods, and have resorted to finishing with a file at times. I'll have to measure the bevel angle on my Mora carving knife, I'll bet its similar. I'll have to do this to a chisel.
It works great
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I measured the stock angle on my Mora 106 carving knife and its more like 23 degrees. But I'll still try the low angle chisel for sure! Good thing I have a few extra. I also want to make a skew chisel.
I use a Worksharp and sharpen my chisels to twenty degrees, the minimum setting. Resharpening has to be frequent but it only takes a minute.
I sharpen everything by hand takes less than a minute!!!!!!
I’m no good by hand. I end up with multiple bevels out of square. Actually rehoning takes me a few seconds, so I’m faster ha ha. 😀😀 An acute angle is best, I agree.
Nicely done Rob.
Thanks for watching
Excellent lesson
Glad you like it
Rob...for gods sake use some hand cream!! :o)
I rarely comment but I thought the same thing. I have extremely dry skin from many years of bare handed material handling and find O'Keeffe's Working Hands Cream works very well. Not greasy, not stinky and from what I can tell doesn't stain the wood after it soaks in. A couple applications/day really helps. Rob, do yourself a favor.
I know I should
Very gud
Thanks for commenting
I love low degree chisel angels
Me too
CBN = Awesome!
I am truly impressed with how fast they cut and how cool they stay
I like this method. I think it's better than the other methods I have seen that don't take advantage of a grinder.
Also, LOL, why does the linked playlist "Sharpening Hand Plane Blades & Chisels" contain videos that shouldn't be included, like an SNL skit and news.
This happens a lot. We dont put them in there but somehow that magically appear. I am being serious. We have to constantly cull the playlists
Why would you do fancy, hand cut dovetails on cheap softwood like pine? It's like drinking boxed wine out of a crystal glass. If you are going to spend the effort required for making beautiful dovetails, the very least you can do is invest in a nice piece of hardwood.
The longer I do woodworking the more I also appreciate pine. Not the one preglued from the big box but a nice board.
Sometimes traditionally built drawers use a softer wood for the drawer sides/tail board. I have used yellow cedar, nutmeg in the past.
@@Tobsen660 Same here. Plus there are other soft woods that also end up in fine furniture. I'm thinking secondary pieces like drawer sides which do get dovetails but do not realy show... so why use premium timbers there?
Sometimes its the wood that my client wants.
pet rabbits can safely eat kiln dry pine play houses and toys. Especially if they are colored with organic cranberry or blueberry juice.