If you are having a hard time finding Daniel's LP, contact him directly: dan@hisimaginaryfriends.nl (P.S. I have no affiliation or any benefit from this ;-))
@@danielvanderveen921 I mean black vinyl - I'm not comparing - it's called choice and I choose the non-inferior playback method. Some of us understand what you're pushing and not a fan 'to be honest'. Cool vanity project though Daniel. Good luck on the limited time hang.
I'm sure the record manufacturers will be passing the manufacturing savings on to the consumers now that you are trained to spend outrageous prices for LPs. Yeah. Just like self checkout at the market and electronic banking statements savings were passed on to us.
That’s a disgraceful statement. What about the shareholders? What about passing the changes on to them, as is right and proper in a capitalist economy. The invisible hand of the market will solve everything 😂😂😂
If the quality control is better on these records, I'm all for it. I'm so sick of returing vinyl LPs because of surface noise. I have a large collection of records I bought in the 80s with no pops or clicks. But the crap I buy these days has at least one pop in it somewhere. I look forward to our new PE overlords.
@@anadialog factory, cafe and restaurant with sale of analog products only ! We already have a couple of bars that sell vinyl and serve beer. It’s a happy family
Right,we had injection-molded records in the past in the U.S. Most were 7" 45's but they did some LP's also. They weren't that bad buty the poly-styrene they were made of were brittle and could be broken easily. They could chip easily and could be damaged with one play of bad stylus. Other than that they were durable, but would wear out faster than a vinyl record and were flat when they were made and didn't warp like a vinyl record would. As you indicated, injection molding is an entirely different process an new machine would have to be manufactured. Injection molding definitely has to be heated and then cooled. I can't see a savings there. In current injection molding, like making double-wall ice chests, the mold is actually spun to make sure the material gets into the finest features of the mold. In making records out of poly-styrene, there is a seam where the halves of the molds meet. It's true that the record labels have to be glued on the records, but I think I've only had one or 2 labels come off of a record made of poly-styrene that is 50+ years old now, but the labels came off when the records weren't old. I haven't had labels come off of the 1,000's of 45's I have made from poly-styrene. I've had several records made of vinyl that the labels have come off, but it is really rare. They could print the labels right on the records, as they did on many E.U. 45's. In the U.S., about the only records we had were in the Bell group of labels and "kiddie" records. In your comparison of reflection between the 2 record materials, the vinyl one had a mirror-like reflection while the other just looks like spokes of a wheel.
Very interesting topic with great explanations from yours, as always. It is hard for us to say if it will be (or not) a sucess in the future. No one can say , as we don't have the benefit of the hindsight. I think this new process can be a good alternative, but if it does not bring anything more i.e., offers a solution to a ''pain'' key players in those industry have to deal with, chances that people will massively invest in those technology are small. Business reality applies were everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die.
Very interesting topic and video. I use an acrylic platter mat and it's dead-flat, (almost) the same thickness from the spindle hole to the edge (it is machined out for the record label), and has a flat edge. I'd be very interested to hear one. I may pick up an LCD Soundsystem one that's on discogs or the King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard one - I don't have either. "Green Records" would have been a more accurate name considering they contain no vinyl. I think a laser-etched "label" would be really cool. You could even fill the etching in with some kind of colorant to help it stand out. I have a 200gram Miles Davis vinyl record made by Classic Records. They tried to make it very flat records (with same thickness on the outer edge as the center) because of consistent groove wall height - it makes sense. And, unlike everyone else here I'm guessing, I have zero issue with digital recording/mastering/mixing/etc. - I just want the cleanest sound from instrument or voice to my speakers. I play vinyl records, different types of digital files from MP3 to 24bit, CDs, SACDs, DVDs, and I record and play stereo VHS tapes occasionally. Thanks for posting!
Interesting to note, Stereo VHS is an all analog format. The frequency range on a Hi-Fi Stereo VHS tape is the full range of human hearing. Some call it the poor man’s reel to reel. I have used it with impressive results.
Thanks for the video and the interesting information you are sharing ! My perspective of mechanical engineer that deals with plastic injection molding each day is that there is a lot of innovation in this field and can be used to modernize and improve the "Vinyl" technology. There must be an incentive for the producers to do so. If LPs sells keep going up , it's inevitable .
I just ordered the pink King Gizz album. I wish it was on black so I could compare it with another LP. I may pick up the LCD Soundsystem one because it's black and I love the album (I only have a digital copy of it).
That's really interesting! Also a huge benefit is that injection molding is a widely used process, so manufacture can be made with new equipment instead of relying in old machinery that is difficult to maintain. As far as plastic is concerned, between PET and polycarbonate I think the latter is more probable, as injection molding of PET is difficult (in fact you only see bottles and other blown stuff made out of PET). Also I don't think it's a blend between the two, they are different plastics with different proprieties that I don't think can go well together, or at least I'm not aware such a mix has ever been used. Of course that's my guess, I can be wrong!
This is an interesting development- considering how many vinyl records have separate release dates from other formats. The sole reason being is due to the supply having to keep up with the demand.
I absolutely can imagine, that this material "sounds different". Every material resonates in its own way (as does vinyl) and interacts with the mats - which have their own signature themselves too. We are used to the "sound of vinyl", and time will tell, if we will like the sound of coming alternatives in the future.
yes you are correct - this is more brittle sounding - - it's related to the format called Styrene. Looks to be the exact same process as well..and he didn't show the side of the 'record' it's got a square edge on the side and probably sandwiched together.
As someone who presses records, a few points : the edges of pressed records being pointy? that is just a setting and a tradition : you can make them flat like that if you want, mo problem. A mold injection would give a better penetration during manufacturing? Why would you assume that? In my mind, it would be the opposite, due to the process, since the compound would have to spread in an already closed environement, contrary to traditional pressing. I know the guys behind this, who are one of the 4 main compound distributors, and they've been working on this for ages. I don't think it will work out - yet - as I do find more manufacturing issues with their process. It's a pipe dream, as is the porcelain stamper being developed in Switzerland for the past 15 years.
Never said the edge of normal records MUST be pointed, but so the majority are! Better penetration is what they claim , I have reported the information I didn't give technical evaluation and neither should you unless you don't know exactly how both are built.
Never heard of injection-molding but when you said about issues with labels I remembered that I have one record with that issue and when I checked the rim its nice and flat, so it should be injection-molding. The LP is "2 Pac - All eyez on me" 4LP set from 2001, very quiet and good sounds record. Unfortunately did not found who exactly did the pressing.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Hm it's weird, 1. I compared the rim with other records and on 2 Pac LP it's much thicker and flat, on other records what I have the rim is a bit sharp. 2. First time I see bubbling on label, even my 50s LPs didn't have this, and I bought the 2 Pac record new.
Nobody was making injection moulded records in 2001. The excess material is trimmed off the record and the trimmer can be moved out to give you a sharp edge or moved in to give a flat edge.
There were injected molded 45s from Europe back in the 60s through the '80s that were made of vinyl, not styrene like in the US. Many refer to these 45s as "plasticrap". They had telltale signs difficult to describe here. I heard they were working on making records from PET, basically recycled plastic water bottles which are made mostly from PET. I didn't know they had perfected the process. Over the last 5 years or so I have received recently pressed records where the edges were flat, but not as pronounced as the one you showed, and I suspected they might have been injected molded. Thanx for sharing this information!
They haven't perfected anything it's just a product they will sell at a markup from recycled water bottles (so the hookline states). Why are people paying for water to begin with? ridiculous mentality on earth. Many vinyl records have flat edges it's nothing new. Yes it is plastic-crap . This is niche limited time hang
You say "clearly" as often as you want to. Your English is brilliant and you do not use the dreaded C word in every sentence like some reviewers. I prefer "GROOVY" myself,but I was born in the 60,s. Another great video,many thanks.
I work for an injection molded parts manufacturer. I think it would be KILLER if my company was able to pick up some contracts with record companies and start molding records instead of 99% car parts.
Hi, that's very interresting, thanks! The different aspect between the two is clearly visible. The weight must be a bit different too ? Apart for the label issue which is very annoying (I guess they'll find a solution), I wonder how it will resist to the diamond.
HD Vinyl is dead at this point though Perfect Groove v2.1.0 is available as a free download. One of the developers is going to work on an automation system for Sillitoe cutting lathes.
Unfortunately the company behind HD Vinyl went bankrupt. They spent too much and didn't have enough results. I posted that in the community tab when it happened.
I've played some of these Green Vinyl Albums a few dozen times and don't see any wear under the microscope, typically on vinyl you get contact wear at the point of contact which shows up as 2 parallel lines, one on each side of the groove.
Truly interested to know how the mold is made on these green records. Laser or chemical etching, electro-erosion, micro milling are well known manufacturing processes in countless industrial domains so why would it be specifically more expensive if it's applied to records injection... Maybe another positive side of molding process is that the record might stay 100% flat as opposed to the potentially wavy/wobbly vinyl disc over time (or heat exposure...)
The stampers used in Injection molding are produced with a TTV(Total Thickness Variation) much tighter than conventional vinyl. This produces a very very flat record. There are currently only 2 stamper houses setup for making stampers for Green Vinyl, one in Europe and one in the US which is affiliated with Green Vinyl Records.
It’s clear to me that clearly is your favorite word. I haven’t seen a molded record and not sure where to find one. I need to find out how they make the grooves. I wouldn’t be concerned about digitally controlling the making of the mold; it’s not the same as the recording process.
I asked to excuse me for that at the end of the video ;-) My worry is not the digital control, but the digital engraving, just like the defunct HD Vinyl
I wondered why some of my 45s labels were bubbling…now I know why…..I’ve got vinyl stretching over 50 years all are in great shape, I wonder if this new pressing will stand the length of time…
Are these records flatter? And are they centred? Problem lately is many pressing plants produce warped records. RTI and QRP are not immune to this problem.
From the few reviews I read they seem to be dead flat from the center hole to the edge. I use an acrylic platter mat and it looks like the same process minus the grooves.
The stampers used in Injection molding are produced with a TTV(Total Thickness Variation) much tighter than conventional vinyl. This produces a very very flat record. Eccentricity of the center is typically less than the width of 1 groove. There are currently only 2 stamper houses setup for making stampers for Green Vinyl, one in Europe and one in the US which is affiliated with Green Vinyl Records. The eccentricity and flatness starts and ends with the quality of the stamper.
True! Sorry about that. I didn't mention the price of these three records because they have the same price of a normal record, maybe slightly less. If it picks-up I am sure it will drop. For example I paid the two records from Blacklake €22 each.
Good coverage of this early stages of injection moulding records. It seems maybe there would be less chance of non fill of the grooves or defects with injection moulding. Is the noise level of the record lower or the same as vinyl? Not having to cut another laquer to produce more vinyl, in order to maintain quality, is a huge reason why injection moulding will become the norm at some point. Multi colour vinyl could also be done with injection moulding so no limitations. Im guessing the moulds are made from the metal plating taken from the lacquers. They line a mould with the metal then produced a substrate imprint of the Side A, B top and bottom of the mould. I assume both sides of the record are in the mould.
Lacquers are still in the game, just more copies for cut with more consistency in the quality. For the rest, only time we’ll tell. Here is also an interview done with one of the main producers: ruclips.net/video/TMNotrS1rKg/видео.htmlsi=n1d4miBPdUp5NDkj
I wonder why RCA cannot go back to making their SELECT-A-VISION system with the new formulation i.e. Polycarbonate + Polytetrafluoroethylene for their Discs but of course with a electrically conductive core so as to create one plate of the capacitor and having the stylus form the other plate of the capacitor.
There were a lot of injection molded records starting in the mid 70ies which came from from German, France, and UK Polydor/Phillips//DGG/Phonogram. These are easy to identify because they don't have paper labels. If I guess right, the labels are silkscreened. In never have seen more than two colors on the LPs (base color + black or silver). And there is a labelless area of 7 milimeters around the centre hole. The labels of the singles are relized via the embossed relief/profile with one color silkscreened on the resulting "plateaus". Looks like injection molding was supportive for manufacturing high batches. Usually you see it in use for highly successful of highly commercial titles. Guess most European collectors own some of these records. I don't know in which countries this technology was used at the time.
No, because it's not a stamper but a mold and I don't understand yet how they are making the molds. The lathe part is the same, yes, except that maybe they are cutting a different material than lacquer.
@@anadialog - incorrect.. Same stampers, just tighter specs & they are not formed, they are center punched to hold the Injection Mold stamper holder. They are not coined/formed on the inner or outer edges.
Is this bioplastic record less flexible compared to the standard pvc? If it was the same polycarbonate as optical media, it would be much less prone to warping.
Speaking from a production point of view - not in the studio, but as a guy used to making stuff with my hands and how to get that stuff made as fast and as accurately as possible - there will be plenty of companies out there who have already made the investment in the machinery needed and, if, as you say the mold can be used to make hundreds of thousands as opposed to just a few stamped out discs, then there's no reason why you can't just ship the mold to another subcontractor who's got machine time free.
I believe that in the future there will be a way of making you own "vinyl" records at home with a different type of 3D printing. But then, what's the point if all recordings are first digitally mastered? It's then much better just to have a good DAC instead of a mechanical analog recording.
As someone who owns literally hundreds of injected styrene records from the 60s and 70s, there is nothing new here. Also vinyl has always been recyclable. Having seen the amount of records put into crushers and recycled in the past and hence why a lot of original records are now rare. As for polycarbonate and or polyethylene they are both plastics made from hydrocarbons as such this just looks like a marketing hype. Personally I’d like to know if these records are better or worse for long term record wear. Injected Styrene was renowned for cue burn after being back cued with high vertical tracking force on the stylus and in particular with an elliptical stylus. May buy one of these green vinyl records just to see what it would take to damage one.
Yes, I did not say the whole formula but as you can see it worked because you perfectly understood that we are talking about PET. And in any case there is also polycarbonate and other stuff inside...all and all it's still a type of plastic. Not that different afterall.
Please demonstrate how if you knock it on the edge of the table it will shatter - do that test compared to a Vinyl record. And why do they call it greenvinyl when it's not Vinyl. ?
Interesting vid, thanks. You seem to be implying that there would be a different pressing plate production technique involved than in the pressing of a traditional vinyl. Why do you think that? Wouldn't the primary difference be that they are pressing a bubble instead of a puck? Seems like a better way to get a uniform pressing and protect the plate from side-load deformation, provided the material used proves durable, but the plates are still coming from whoever provides them to be pressed right?
I watched a few videos and it's unclear how the "stamping" plates are made but nobody said they were a new or different thing. I'm not an expert but the ones they showed looked identical to normal plates. This process doesn't require something different. It would be easy to make quality represses with used plates. I'm guessing plates that normally would only be good for another couple hundred pressings might be able to run 2, 3, 4+X that because of the less stressful process. That would save time, money, and resources.
I actually clearly said towards the end that one of the big problems here is that you need an injection machine instead of a stamper and they are extremely expensive
@@anadialog - The injection molding machine uses the same stampers. Just formed/coined differently. The stamper TTV tolerances are much tighter for Green Vinyl. That's the only stamper differences.
I am letting you know I am holding in my hand a 3-LP YES album "50th Anniversary Live At The Apollo" released in 2018 on orange vinyl and on all the records the edges are 100% flat! I thought this record was odd when I bought it a few years ago because the edges were totally flat. I thought it looked injection molded but who would be injection molding these? I can tell you after examining the labels they appear to be baked into the record like a standard vinyl pressing. They are not pressed or glued on.
The edge is an index but that doesn't mean that normal vinyl is cut that way. It depends from the pressing plants. I don't think that is an injection release.
thank you for your awesome videos! you didn't talk about that inspect of sound quality that the profile of the record is flat. i think its big big plus!
I have a few releases in mind that might be injection molding. Theres an edition of Nirvana In Utero that might be one. It's different, thicker like shellac and shines different like your LP you showed. I believe it's an edition pressed in Europe, in the Netherlands. I found a version of Nevermind like that bought as well. There might be an Unplugged like that as well. It's definitely different and I never could place it before. The 2 I have sound amazing, especially In Utero.
do they have paste on labels ? extremely dubious to think they injection molded these releases unless you have some sort of bootleg version . There are different vinyl formulas used such as Quiex (JVC supervinyl) and other examples.. You would have to tell us the specifics and show some photos ..but according to Discogs your copies injection molded do not exist .
I think that an important aspect is how do PET and polycarbonate resist to wear? We know that properly treated vinyl lasts for decades without perceivable sound degradation... 🤔
it's all foolish to follow this scam called 'green' - your point is noted and all it means is planned obsolescence... on paper 'oh we are protecting the environment' but making an inferior product that degrades making you go out an buy another one when it's turned to dust.. this is Styrene 3.0. What hypocrisy - or people just aren't doing proper research before the launch a product idea.. I do know we live in a world with many trust fund kids with money to burn so they can pump out vanity projects like this . who knows but I do know this is limited time hang.
I've played some of these Green Vinyl Albums a few dozen times and don't see any wear under the microscope, typically on vinyl you get contact wear at the point of contact which shows up as 2 parallel lines, one on each side of the groove.
My concern is durability of the record grooves. I play my old stamped styrene 45rpm records with a conical or mild elliptical stylus to prevent damaging them. I understand that using a fine-line or other sophisticated stylus shape will damage the stamped styrene records. How about these? It would be a no go if these new stamped records can’t be played with high-end stylus shapes.
Compression is part of any record that is played using a turntable and a stylus. The dynamic range must be limited in order for the stylus to track and keep reasonable playing time on a record. It wont be any different n direct inject than it is on stamped vinyl. I do see the energy savings and flatter records to be advantages, but little else.
I have one injection mold album, from Information Society. It really surprised me with how clean it sounded. I have tons of clean sounding vinyl, but that record was impressive.
What did you notice when the stylus passed over the natural occurring nit lines where the injected polyethylene ran together from its flow into the mold? This process has to mandate an adjustment to the SRA on the phono cartridge. This seems like a constant pain in the ass from making these height adjustment of the cartridge.
another logical person in the comments. I assume they are just pushing these out to the base consumer not the educated collector. You know the trust fund kid who just 'wants' something new. So that won't matter as it's just a material item to 'have' .
I’d be concerned about groove wear. Styrene 45s don’t hold up nearly as well as vinyl ones, and you must use a conical stylus with them as other types will shred the grooves.
The groove wear was because styrene is softer than the PVC they used for other records. PET is not as soft as styrene so I suspect it will have a wear life of about what you would have with PVC.
@@ThatVinylChannel quite the opposite styrene is a harder more brittle composition - just bend a styrene record and find out.. it's not 'softer' . And in your video about Styrene records where you state the foolproof method is the label.. that's the 2nd best method. The 1st 'foolproof' method is holding it up to a strong light.. styrene is translucent. cheers
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Well, what I know is if there is a skip on a styrene 45 if I put a little bit of pressure on the stylus head it will force the skip out but this method never works on a vinyl 45. And, styrene 45s are very susceptible to back-queue burn-in which is virtaully not an issue on vinyl 45s. From that I summarize styrene is softer. But, it is indeed more brittle as well. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Not to even mention styrene is what they make styrofoam out of and styrofoam is very soft compared to what they make PVC stuff out of like PVC pipes.
@@ThatVinylChannel you cannot correlate the material used (2 different materials and compositions) with how it degrades or not. You are thinking like 'harder' means something like steel or more impervious to damage but not the case in this regard. It's harder, more brittle and will wear faster than vinyl because of the different material used in the process. It also has a terrible sound resonance factor on top of these other factors - a higher frequency resonance also indicating it's harder not softer.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Well, today I came across my 2nd styrene LP in my collection. I can tell it is styrene because it has glued-on labels and the outer edges are trying to lift off the record.. Holding it up to the light I cannot see any light coming through it at all. So, respectfully, that is not a surefire way to tell if it's styrene or not. The label seems to be the best bet!
What about stylus wear with this new technic and material??. I really got tired of vinyl. Since I'm using my Tannoys with a wiim pro plus via analog output. I won't get back. I own a Technics 1200 mk2 with an Akai pc180 shibata nude stylus/cartridge anyway...
Thanks for video I’m all for all the crappy new music that’s being put out be injection molded hopefully the older old music will be continued to be manufactured on regular vinyl and will last a lifetime
Green like puke yes and green is the big UN induced worldwide scam to put everyone into a new type of slavery for the system - carbon credits anyone? Gretha Thumb-berg would be delighted.
I don`t believe in these new "green" developments. Since incandescent bulbs are not available to buy legally, I realized that I don`t see much in my apartment with all this new led technology. So many of LED bulbs went direct into a trash bin and were replaced with halogen bulbs, which can still be bought, but are made in China.
I hate to be ‘that guy’… but Polyethylene (PE) and Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) are two different polymers. Very few, if any use-cases exist where they are interchangeable. As an example; a Coca Cola bottle and a pre-packed sandwich box will likely be made from PET, whereas the carrier bag you bring them home in will be made from PE. Again, sorry to be that guy 😂
Records are the only product we buy that you want to be clean but we accept and even pay top dollar for them when they are filthy. Why cant anyone figure out how to get a record into its wrapper without it being covered with pubic hair and garbage?
Very interesting vid, thanks. Timely too, as I just received the new double-live Sonic Youth album, and it's got those flat edges and the different kind of sheen to the surface, and SY would be very ecologically conscious.... Label is Silver Current Records.
Besides digital mastering .........still prefer analog mastering , WHAT about groove wear with this new material ?...........and static build up ....and noise, clocks and pops ?
Seem to have similar static of a vinyl lp. Groove wear...don't know yet! But unless you play a record over and over for hours I don't think any record will show that...at least that is my experience. Clicks and pops come from Dirt and scratches so that is the same
Those vinyls don't interest me.....I listen only to vinyl recorded from analog masters otherwise vinyl has no use existing , for digital i listen to digital electronics and sources ......@@SPAZZOID100
@@SPAZZOID100 that's why I don't buy new records or reissues. the steve miller greatest hits 2 LP set I was so excited about and sounded like dog shit. So back to the original 1 LP greatest hits on vinyl that sounds great.
It's interesting, but I would not buy an injection mold record. The environmental impact is negligible, the label bubbling up and I like the look and feel of pressed vinyl.
I understand polystyrene 45s suck badly. But mostly because it is a crappy material for records. I guess it is too soft and wears fast for one thing. I would say that injection molding is OK as long as you get as good a results as stamping. No bubbles no voids etc. that can occur in that process. IF it is not as good by any degree for noise and sound quality, and lifespan, trash it.
So when no one has a job because a machine is now doing it, who will buy the records? Between automation and AI we’ll all be sitting around our pools no doubt, at least until the wildfire/heatdome/hurricane/icestorm/etc. forces us in the house.
that's why they want the population of the world down. But yes it's the ultimate fail to get rid of humans because who you going to market to? it's the most short sighted and dangerous Grift in the history of the World. So stupid. AI is just a party trick like that included word processor when you bought the early digital type writers .. a selling point of formatting policy - but in AI case.. it's politicized.
Most records these days come from a digital source anyway. Anyone believing it’s an analogue process is kidding themselves. I’ve just seen a ‘real’ band playing their ‘real’ instruments and all their sound was captured digitally in order to process, mix and master. Those digital sources will then be sent to be pressed on an analogue format, so hipsters who love overpriced vinyl can kid themselves it’s so wholesome and ‘real’. When in fact they are just getting the exact same recording as those buying it at a third of the price or less when they buy a CD or FLAC. The only difference is they get a big clumsy sleeve and a format that won;t age with grace and degrade with each play. Plus, not all music is even analogue at the point of creation. Some music is conceived in the mind an artist and the whole process will be done from start to finish upon a computer. It’s an interesting video, but I’ll still be sticking with compact disc. I find it’s still the best way to archive a collection. The CDs I bought in the 80s are still as good as the first day I played them, however their vinyl counterparts over the years have collected, clicks, crackles and pops.
Of course 98% of modern vinyl is sourced from digital everyone know that. But you are forgetting two important factors among many, first the analog medium gives a special warm supple sound to the harsh digital recording and, most importantly, the MASTERING! The master prepared for vinyl is much less compressed and dynamic than CDs and high-res even though I use and enjoy all three (and much more). Here is a video I did on the topic: ruclips.net/video/FK31t6CgXn8/видео.htmlsi=WnMWPTGiNEO1uXEI
@@anadialog the compression for CDs is scientifically more than suitable for the human ear. We all know that. The ‘harsh’ digital sound argument is always a go to for vinyl lovers. In reality it’s a nonsense and any sound engineer worth his salt will tell you that. I have both vinyl and CD, even cassette and a decent set up to play them all and I’d say when new, compact disc and vinyl were similar in quality. However, let time pass, I’m 35 years into collecting music and my CDs sound crisp and clear, my vinyl recordings don;t always. The passage of time and usage will only compound this. So if you like imaginary ‘warmer, less harsh’ sounding vinyl, that’s fine, but you’re going to have it with pops and crackles. Did the artist record those? No of course not, so this is distortion or degradation from the original source. On top of this and a separate matter entirely is that vinyl is a rip off, often more than £30 for a new LP! You can go and buy a second hand CD that plays perfectly fine for £3 and it will last you decades. As someone who archives music I would highly recommend CD. For its sound, it’s ability to remain intact, it’s physical size and it’s affordability. I’d swap out every piece of vinyl in my collection if someone could give me the CD equivalent.
No, no you can't see or know from the dead wax if it is the first or the last pressing for those metal parts. 😂 You at most know what metal parts it is but not if it is the last pressing WITH those metal parts when they are worn out and scraped.🎉
@@anadialog no! you put the stampers (metal parts) in the press. And nobody goes in and mark 1, 2, 3,...1000th.. That will NEVER happen (but if I am wrong please direct me to that information!) But what will happen is in the common 3 step process they can from the father make many sons (stampers/metal parts). Those stampers can and will be marked as first copy of the father second copy of the father and so on.. In the end the father will be degraded and a new father from the mother is needed to be done. So you ONLY know what your number of copy that stamper had from the father. But if you got the first or the last pressing before the scrapped the stampers you will never know (that from the lead out) when they are worn out. That is NOTHING you can know about! That is 3 reasons why we fork out more money for a test pressing. One is that a test pressing run is low numbers so you will not get the 1000th.. The second is that it is ALSO a early father copy from the mother and the third thing that the stampers (sons) is also early from the father. "Early" as usually one of the first.. But 1 to nr 1000 (if that is the max number they do on a pair of stampers) that is nobody that knows from the info in the Dead wax (lead out). Only the pressing machinist know that number.. 🥳
![ANA[DIA]LOG](http://yt3.ggpht.com/50CpmGNilS8aoMlarZVhI_GxRDoZdbj4ZgwCMZXg-Rq2PrEvCytlE6RVyLUrNY-rwE_sAlZ1Zw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
If you are having a hard time finding Daniel's LP, contact him directly: dan@hisimaginaryfriends.nl (P.S. I have no affiliation or any benefit from this ;-))
will it be available on vinyl?
Hi, this is Daniel. Do you mean on 'regular' vinyl? Is it to compare the two? I don't think so, to be honest.
@@danielvanderveen921 I mean black vinyl - I'm not comparing - it's called choice and I choose the non-inferior playback method. Some of us understand what you're pushing and not a fan 'to be honest'. Cool vanity project though Daniel. Good luck on the limited time hang.
@@danielvanderveen921 I would like to compare the 2 and then choose to purchase the one that sounds better. To be 100% honest.
I'm sure the record manufacturers will be passing the manufacturing savings on to the consumers now that you are trained to spend outrageous prices for LPs. Yeah. Just like self checkout at the market and electronic banking statements savings were passed on to us.
Wow..Boeing. couldn't even watch too the end. Wake when informative..
Green is a scam .. you're on point.. and you'll get antifa and BLM after you .
True! It needs to get really big to perhaps see prices go down but yes, we are surely going to be the last ones to see that IF it takes place at all
That’s a disgraceful statement. What about the shareholders? What about passing the changes on to them, as is right and proper in a capitalist economy. The invisible hand of the market will solve everything 😂😂😂
If the quality control is better on these records, I'm all for it. I'm so sick of returing vinyl LPs because of surface noise. I have a large collection of records I bought in the 80s with no pops or clicks. But the crap I buy these days has at least one pop in it somewhere. I look forward to our new PE overlords.
non fill is what I hate in modern pressings
I'm listing to Dan's album: it's fantastic! Thank you for the discovery
Cool!
We have a local project near montpellier to manufacture green vinyl. I’ll keep you informed If the project gets funding.
Nice! Yes, please do!
@@anadialog factory, cafe and restaurant with sale of analog products only ! We already have a couple of bars that sell vinyl and serve beer. It’s a happy family
Right,we had injection-molded records in the past in the U.S. Most were 7" 45's but they did some LP's also. They weren't that bad buty the poly-styrene they were made of were brittle and could be broken easily. They could chip easily and could be damaged with one play of bad stylus. Other than that they were durable, but would wear out faster than a vinyl record and were flat when they were made and didn't warp like a vinyl record would.
As you indicated, injection molding is an entirely different process an new machine would have to be manufactured. Injection molding definitely has to be heated and then cooled. I can't see a savings there.
In current injection molding, like making double-wall ice chests, the mold is actually spun to make sure the material gets into the finest features of the mold. In making records out of poly-styrene, there is a seam where the halves of the molds meet.
It's true that the record labels have to be glued on the records, but I think I've only had one or 2 labels come off of a record made of poly-styrene that is 50+ years old now, but the labels came off when the records weren't old. I haven't had labels come off of the 1,000's of 45's I have made from poly-styrene. I've had several records made of vinyl that the labels have come off, but it is really rare. They could print the labels right on the records, as they did on many E.U. 45's. In the U.S., about the only records we had were in the Bell group of labels and "kiddie" records.
In your comparison of reflection between the 2 record materials, the vinyl one had a mirror-like reflection while the other just looks like spokes of a wheel.
Very interesting topic with great explanations from yours, as always. It is hard for us to say if it will be (or not) a sucess in the future. No one can say , as we don't have the benefit of the hindsight. I think this new process can be a good alternative, but if it does not bring anything more i.e., offers a solution to a ''pain'' key players in those industry have to deal with, chances that people will massively invest in those technology are small. Business reality applies were everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die.
Very interesting topic and video.
I use an acrylic platter mat and it's dead-flat, (almost) the same thickness from the spindle hole to the edge (it is machined out for the record label), and has a flat edge. I'd be very interested to hear one. I may pick up an LCD Soundsystem one that's on discogs or the King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard one - I don't have either.
"Green Records" would have been a more accurate name considering they contain no vinyl. I think a laser-etched "label" would be really cool. You could even fill the etching in with some kind of colorant to help it stand out.
I have a 200gram Miles Davis vinyl record made by Classic Records. They tried to make it very flat records (with same thickness on the outer edge as the center) because of consistent groove wall height - it makes sense.
And, unlike everyone else here I'm guessing, I have zero issue with digital recording/mastering/mixing/etc. - I just want the cleanest sound from instrument or voice to my speakers. I play vinyl records, different types of digital files from MP3 to 24bit, CDs, SACDs, DVDs, and I record and play stereo VHS tapes occasionally.
Thanks for posting!
Interesting to note, Stereo VHS is an all analog format.
The frequency range on a Hi-Fi Stereo VHS tape is the full range of human hearing.
Some call it the poor man’s reel to reel. I have used it with impressive results.
I have worked with injection moulding, and I can see the issues here, you are spot on.
the childrens records for fisher price was injection moulding
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Ha ha, I assume you aren’t a fan then :-)
@@PaulPadoan fan? I'm not a fan of anything but this stuff is garbage - but suckers going to jump.
Thanks for the video and the interesting information you are sharing ! My perspective of mechanical engineer that deals with plastic injection molding each day is that there is a lot of innovation in this field and can be used to modernize and improve the "Vinyl" technology. There must be an incentive for the producers to do so. If LPs sells keep going up , it's inevitable .
Thank YOU! Yes, I agree. Can't believe we are still waiting for some innovation to pick-up
Yes, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard were at the top of the list you showed. I have it and it seems to be of excellent quality to me.
I just ordered the pink King Gizz album. I wish it was on black so I could compare it with another LP. I may pick up the LCD Soundsystem one because it's black and I love the album (I only have a digital copy of it).
Careful though! Not all editions are made by GVR...check the back!
@@anadialog Mine was pressed in Germany, just checked, so not GVR.
That's really interesting! Also a huge benefit is that injection molding is a widely used process, so manufacture can be made with new equipment instead of relying in old machinery that is difficult to maintain.
As far as plastic is concerned, between PET and polycarbonate I think the latter is more probable, as injection molding of PET is difficult (in fact you only see bottles and other blown stuff made out of PET). Also I don't think it's a blend between the two, they are different plastics with different proprieties that I don't think can go well together, or at least I'm not aware such a mix has ever been used. Of course that's my guess, I can be wrong!
New vinyl pressing equipment is being made.
This is an interesting development- considering how many vinyl records have separate release dates from other formats. The sole reason being is due to the supply having to keep up with the demand.
I absolutely can imagine, that this material "sounds different". Every material resonates in its own way (as does vinyl) and interacts with the mats - which have their own signature themselves too. We are used to the "sound of vinyl", and time will tell, if we will like the sound of coming alternatives in the future.
yes you are correct - this is more brittle sounding - - it's related to the format called Styrene. Looks to be the exact same process as well..and he didn't show the side of the 'record' it's got a square edge on the side and probably sandwiched together.
I did show the side of the record, in detail...check the video without skipping! ;-)
@@anadialog In my case - I watched it, and my response was targeted to Your supposition, that there COULD be a sound difference...
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 - It's a 2 sided mold, both sides are produced in one cycle.
As someone who presses records, a few points : the edges of pressed records being pointy? that is just a setting and a tradition : you can make them flat like that if you want, mo problem. A mold injection would give a better penetration during manufacturing? Why would you assume that? In my mind, it would be the opposite, due to the process, since the compound would have to spread in an already closed environement, contrary to traditional pressing. I know the guys behind this, who are one of the 4 main compound distributors, and they've been working on this for ages. I don't think it will work out - yet - as I do find more manufacturing issues with their process. It's a pipe dream, as is the porcelain stamper being developed in Switzerland for the past 15 years.
Never said the edge of normal records MUST be pointed, but so the majority are! Better penetration is what they claim , I have reported the information I didn't give technical evaluation and neither should you unless you don't know exactly how both are built.
Never heard of injection-molding but when you said about issues with labels I remembered that I have one record with that issue and when I checked the rim its nice and flat, so it should be injection-molding. The LP is "2 Pac - All eyez on me" 4LP set from 2001, very quiet and good sounds record. Unfortunately did not found who exactly did the pressing.
it's not injection molded.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Hm it's weird, 1. I compared the rim with other records and on 2 Pac LP it's much thicker and flat, on other records what I have the rim is a bit sharp. 2. First time I see bubbling on label, even my 50s LPs didn't have this, and I bought the 2 Pac record new.
Nobody was making injection moulded records in 2001. The excess material is trimmed off the record and the trimmer can be moved out to give you a sharp edge or moved in to give a flat edge.
So long as the surface noise is lower than and the record lasts longer than vinyl records, this will become popular.
There were injected molded 45s from Europe back in the 60s through the '80s that were made of vinyl, not styrene like in the US. Many refer to these 45s as "plasticrap". They had telltale signs difficult to describe here. I heard they were working on making records from PET, basically recycled plastic water bottles which are made mostly from PET. I didn't know they had perfected the process. Over the last 5 years or so I have received recently pressed records where the edges were flat, but not as pronounced as the one you showed, and I suspected they might have been injected molded. Thanx for sharing this information!
They haven't perfected anything it's just a product they will sell at a markup from recycled water bottles (so the hookline states). Why are people paying for water to begin with? ridiculous mentality on earth. Many vinyl records have flat edges it's nothing new. Yes it is plastic-crap . This is niche limited time hang
Thank you for pointing that out!
You say "clearly" as often as you want to. Your English is brilliant and you do not use the dreaded C word in every sentence like some reviewers. I prefer "GROOVY" myself,but I was born in the 60,s. Another great video,many thanks.
clearly 😅
Where can we purchase Daniels album found it in one place but looks as if it won't ship the the UK?
Don't know about the LP...maybe Daniel can help!
I work for an injection molded parts manufacturer. I think it would be KILLER if my company was able to pick up some contracts with record companies and start molding records instead of 99% car parts.
Hi, that's very interresting, thanks! The different aspect between the two is clearly visible. The weight must be a bit different too ? Apart for the label issue which is very annoying (I guess they'll find a solution), I wonder how it will resist to the diamond.
Labels are now directly printed onto the record.
Very interesting, thank you. Any updates on HD Vinyl, since your last video two years ago on it?
HD Vinyl is dead at this point though Perfect Groove v2.1.0 is available as a free download. One of the developers is going to work on an automation system for Sillitoe cutting lathes.
Unfortunately the company behind HD Vinyl went bankrupt. They spent too much and didn't have enough results. I posted that in the community tab when it happened.
Curious. Whats the wear on these? And the wear on the needles? Long term wear on the actual album?
I've played some of these Green Vinyl Albums a few dozen times and don't see any wear under the microscope, typically on vinyl you get contact wear at the point of contact which shows up as 2 parallel lines, one on each side of the groove.
Durability is yet to be determined.
If the recording was all digital it would make sense to play it back digitally.
Truly interested to know how the mold is made on these green records.
Laser or chemical etching, electro-erosion, micro milling are well known manufacturing processes in countless industrial domains so why would it be specifically more expensive if it's applied to records injection...
Maybe another positive side of molding process is that the record might stay 100% flat as opposed to the potentially wavy/wobbly vinyl disc over time (or heat exposure...)
The stampers used in Injection molding are produced with a TTV(Total Thickness Variation) much tighter than conventional vinyl. This produces a very very flat record. There are currently only 2 stamper houses setup for making stampers for Green Vinyl, one in Europe and one in the US which is affiliated with Green Vinyl Records.
@@rossi32s thanks a lot !
It’s clear to me that clearly is your favorite word. I haven’t seen a molded record and not sure where to find one. I need to find out how they make the grooves. I wouldn’t be concerned about digitally controlling the making of the mold; it’s not the same as the recording process.
I asked to excuse me for that at the end of the video ;-)
My worry is not the digital control, but the digital engraving, just like the defunct HD Vinyl
I wondered why some of my 45s labels were bubbling…now I know why…..I’ve got vinyl stretching over 50 years all are in great shape, I wonder if this new pressing will stand the length of time…
Gotta admit when you placed that regular album on top of the sweet one i almost got scared!you live on the edge MAN!
'the sweet one' ? how do you conclude it's 'sweet' .. you bought the hype.
😂
just tryin to inject some levity on the this thing, i sure didnt analize the video.meant it an complementary way for what its worth.
@@Ian-wh8ut for sure nothing wrong with humor that's what I injected as well some crass humor
Are these records flatter? And are they centred? Problem lately is many pressing plants produce warped records. RTI and QRP are not immune to this problem.
From the few reviews I read they seem to be dead flat from the center hole to the edge. I use an acrylic platter mat and it looks like the same process minus the grooves.
Yes they seem very flat and well-centered
The stampers used in Injection molding are produced with a TTV(Total Thickness Variation) much tighter than conventional vinyl. This produces a very very flat record. Eccentricity of the center is typically less than the width of 1 groove. There are currently only 2 stamper houses setup for making stampers for Green Vinyl, one in Europe and one in the US which is affiliated with Green Vinyl Records. The eccentricity and flatness starts and ends with the quality of the stamper.
It would be very interesting to know what is the price of this records four the costumers.
True! Sorry about that. I didn't mention the price of these three records because they have the same price of a normal record, maybe slightly less. If it picks-up I am sure it will drop. For example I paid the two records from Blacklake €22 each.
Good coverage of this early stages of injection moulding records. It seems maybe there would be less chance of non fill of the grooves or defects with injection moulding. Is the noise level of the record lower or the same as vinyl? Not having to cut another laquer to produce more vinyl, in order to maintain quality, is a huge reason why injection moulding will become the norm at some point. Multi colour vinyl could also be done with injection moulding so no limitations. Im guessing the moulds are made from the metal plating taken from the lacquers. They line a mould with the metal then produced a substrate imprint of the Side A, B top and bottom of the mould. I assume both sides of the record are in the mould.
Lacquers are still in the game, just more copies for cut with more consistency in the quality. For the rest, only time we’ll tell. Here is also an interview done with one of the main producers: ruclips.net/video/TMNotrS1rKg/видео.htmlsi=n1d4miBPdUp5NDkj
I wonder why RCA cannot go back to making their SELECT-A-VISION system with the new formulation i.e. Polycarbonate + Polytetrafluoroethylene for their Discs but of course with a electrically conductive core so as to create one plate of the capacitor and having the stylus form the other plate of the capacitor.
I hope your comment was a joke to showcase how ridiculous this format is.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 It's not as injection molding LP's from PET+Polycarbonate is what is replacing PVC.
There were a lot of injection molded records starting in the mid 70ies which came from from German, France, and UK Polydor/Phillips//DGG/Phonogram.
These are easy to identify because they don't have paper labels.
If I guess right, the labels are silkscreened. In never have seen more than two colors on the LPs (base color + black or silver).
And there is a labelless area of 7 milimeters around the centre hole.
The labels of the singles are relized via the embossed relief/profile with one color silkscreened on the resulting "plateaus".
Looks like injection molding was supportive for manufacturing high batches.
Usually you see it in use for highly successful of highly commercial titles.
Guess most European collectors own some of these records.
I don't know in which countries this technology was used at the time.
@@defcreator187 Thanks a lot! Fixed.
🙋♂️GUIDO,VERY INTERESTING 🧐💚💚💚
Glad you think so!
What about surface noise? Can you hear when music is not playing that this Lp is more silent than standard vinyl?
Go compare a Styrene record to Vinyl - that's what this is relative to.. Styrene.
A very good question! Very silent, as a quality vinyl but not dead silent
Very intresting Guido. Thank you.
is all the process before pressing the same as regular vinyl? I mean cutting lathe, making the stamper...
Yes they use the same cutting and electroplating process as standard vinyl.
No, because it's not a stamper but a mold and I don't understand yet how they are making the molds. The lathe part is the same, yes, except that maybe they are cutting a different material than lacquer.
@@anadialog - incorrect.. Same stampers, just tighter specs & they are not formed, they are center punched to hold the Injection Mold stamper holder. They are not coined/formed on the inner or outer edges.
Not LaserDisc (aka CDV). It was the older RCA CED 12-inch disc. RCA invested a billion dollars into the project in late 1970s.
Green vinyl records said it was inspired by laserdisc manufacturing
7:55 lol King Gizzard is the only artist I knew immediately on that list. I just picked up a couple of their records, but they're not the eco ones.
Is this bioplastic record less flexible compared to the standard pvc? If it was the same polycarbonate as optical media, it would be much less prone to warping.
It seems so, but it's not stiff...just slightly more rigid
Interesting video as usual!😊
Whatever happened to HD LPs? I think there was a more proper name for them but I can't remember.
I interviewed the founder in a video. A few months after they went bankrupt
@@anadialog oh, OK. I will look that interview up.
Sounds great to me
Speaking from a production point of view - not in the studio, but as a guy used to making stuff with my hands and how to get that stuff made as fast and as accurately as possible - there will be plenty of companies out there who have already made the investment in the machinery needed and, if, as you say the mold can be used to make hundreds of thousands as opposed to just a few stamped out discs, then there's no reason why you can't just ship the mold to another subcontractor who's got machine time free.
True!
I believe that in the future there will be a way of making you own "vinyl" records at home with a different type of 3D printing. But then, what's the point if all recordings are first digitally mastered? It's then much better just to have a good DAC instead of a mechanical analog recording.
Very interesting. Lathe-cut records have a flat edge like that too.
And lots of surface noise.
some of them do .
@@SPAZZOID100 you assume this injection molded garbage doesn't have surface noise??? Go buy some styrene records ..that's all this is Corky.
As someone who owns literally hundreds of injected styrene records from the 60s and 70s, there is nothing new here. Also vinyl has always been recyclable. Having seen the amount of records put into crushers and recycled in the past and hence why a lot of original records are now rare. As for polycarbonate and or polyethylene they are both plastics made from hydrocarbons as such this just looks like a marketing hype. Personally I’d like to know if these records are better or worse for long term record wear. Injected Styrene was renowned for cue burn after being back cued with high vertical tracking force on the stylus and in particular with an elliptical stylus. May buy one of these green vinyl records just to see what it would take to damage one.
PET is polyethylene terephthate, thus a polyester and something totally different than polyethylene (PE), which is a polyolefine
Yes, I did not say the whole formula but as you can see it worked because you perfectly understood that we are talking about PET. And in any case there is also polycarbonate and other stuff inside...all and all it's still a type of plastic. Not that different afterall.
Please demonstrate how if you knock it on the edge of the table it will shatter - do that test compared to a Vinyl record. And why do they call it greenvinyl when it's not Vinyl. ?
I am smacking a Green Vinyl record on the edge of my desk now.. not breaking..🙂
Who knocks albums? The're for playing not knocking on it's edge
Interesting vid, thanks. You seem to be implying that there would be a different pressing plate production technique involved than in the pressing of a traditional vinyl. Why do you think that? Wouldn't the primary difference be that they are pressing a bubble instead of a puck? Seems like a better way to get a uniform pressing and protect the plate from side-load deformation, provided the material used proves durable, but the plates are still coming from whoever provides them to be pressed right?
I watched a few videos and it's unclear how the "stamping" plates are made but nobody said they were a new or different thing. I'm not an expert but the ones they showed looked identical to normal plates. This process doesn't require something different. It would be easy to make quality represses with used plates. I'm guessing plates that normally would only be good for another couple hundred pressings might be able to run 2, 3, 4+X that because of the less stressful process. That would save time, money, and resources.
I actually clearly said towards the end that one of the big problems here is that you need an injection machine instead of a stamper and they are extremely expensive
@@anadialog - The injection molding machine uses the same stampers. Just formed/coined differently. The stamper TTV tolerances are much tighter for Green Vinyl. That's the only stamper differences.
I am letting you know I am holding in my hand a 3-LP YES album "50th Anniversary Live At The Apollo" released in 2018 on orange vinyl and on all the records the edges are 100% flat! I thought this record was odd when I bought it a few years ago because the edges were totally flat. I thought it looked injection molded but who would be injection molding these? I can tell you after examining the labels they appear to be baked into the record like a standard vinyl pressing. They are not pressed or glued on.
The edge is an index but that doesn't mean that normal vinyl is cut that way. It depends from the pressing plants. I don't think that is an injection release.
@@anadialog Just looks odd. Even the center hole is perfectly round with no jagged edges at all. I wasn't sure.
Fine, but how do all 3 records sound?
@@histubeness They sound great,
Do these things wear down faster or break down faster since they are green?
They shouldn't...but only time will tell!
thank you for your awesome videos! you didn't talk about that inspect of sound quality that the profile of the record is flat. i think its big big plus!
Which one sounds better and what will that do to my expensive stylus?
Here are many answers in my interview with the main producer: ruclips.net/video/TMNotrS1rKg/видео.htmlsi=u6_0SFcFOoyGx_60
I have a few releases in mind that might be injection molding. Theres an edition of Nirvana In Utero that might be one. It's different, thicker like shellac and shines different like your LP you showed. I believe it's an edition pressed in Europe, in the Netherlands. I found a version of Nevermind like that bought as well. There might be an Unplugged like that as well. It's definitely different and I never could place it before. The 2 I have sound amazing, especially In Utero.
do they have paste on labels ? extremely dubious to think they injection molded these releases unless you have some sort of bootleg version . There are different vinyl formulas used such as Quiex (JVC supervinyl) and other examples.. You would have to tell us the specifics and show some photos ..but according to Discogs your copies injection molded do not exist .
why do you support facsism?
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777he's antifascist?
I think that an important aspect is how do PET and polycarbonate resist to wear? We know that properly treated vinyl lasts for decades without perceivable sound degradation... 🤔
it's all foolish to follow this scam called 'green' - your point is noted and all it means is planned obsolescence... on paper 'oh we are protecting the environment' but making an inferior product that degrades making you go out an buy another one when it's turned to dust.. this is Styrene 3.0. What hypocrisy - or people just aren't doing proper research before the launch a product idea.. I do know we live in a world with many trust fund kids with money to burn so they can pump out vanity projects like this . who knows but I do know this is limited time hang.
Yes, we need tests and monitoring before mass production
I've played some of these Green Vinyl Albums a few dozen times and don't see any wear under the microscope, typically on vinyl you get contact wear at the point of contact which shows up as 2 parallel lines, one on each side of the groove.
What duration life expectancy have this records? If you wet them?
30 seconds to 2 minutes.
Don't know...it's still a type of plastic in the end...just more recyclable (they say)
Wet them? No different..
Lizard King 😂 ma daiiiiii.
Nice video, as usual.
I'm not one to worry about it.......... if they change the plastic, as long as it works just as well, so much the better.
My concern is durability of the record grooves. I play my old stamped styrene 45rpm records with a conical or mild elliptical stylus to prevent damaging them.
I understand that using a fine-line or other sophisticated stylus shape will damage the stamped styrene records.
How about these?
It would be a no go if these new stamped records can’t be played with high-end stylus shapes.
According to the manufacturer there are no risks, just as a normal PVC record
Compression is part of any record that is played using a turntable and a stylus. The dynamic range must be limited in order for the stylus to track and keep reasonable playing time on a record. It wont be any different n direct inject than it is on stamped vinyl. I do see the energy savings and flatter records to be advantages, but little else.
better quality control? All for it
Very interesting
I have one injection mold album, from Information Society. It really surprised me with how clean it sounded. I have tons of clean sounding vinyl, but that record was impressive.
I was gonna comment the same. Information Society and Peace & Love, Inc. released in this format.
What did you notice when the stylus passed over the natural occurring nit lines where the injected polyethylene ran together from its flow into the mold? This process has to mandate an adjustment to the SRA on the phono cartridge. This seems like a constant pain in the ass from making these height adjustment of the cartridge.
another logical person in the comments. I assume they are just pushing these out to the base consumer not the educated collector. You know the trust fund kid who just 'wants' something new. So that won't matter as it's just a material item to 'have' .
I didn't notice anything and I definitely wouldn't adjust anything. These are minuscule variations, as much as using a 100g record vs a 200g record
I’d be concerned about groove wear. Styrene 45s don’t hold up nearly as well as vinyl ones, and you must use a conical stylus with them as other types will shred the grooves.
The groove wear was because styrene is softer than the PVC they used for other records. PET is not as soft as styrene so I suspect it will have a wear life of about what you would have with PVC.
@@ThatVinylChannel quite the opposite styrene is a harder more brittle composition - just bend a styrene record and find out.. it's not 'softer' . And in your video about Styrene records where you state the foolproof method is the label.. that's the 2nd best method. The 1st 'foolproof' method is holding it up to a strong light.. styrene is translucent. cheers
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Well, what I know is if there is a skip on a styrene 45 if I put a little bit of pressure on the stylus head it will force the skip out but this method never works on a vinyl 45. And, styrene 45s are very susceptible to back-queue burn-in which is virtaully not an issue on vinyl 45s. From that I summarize styrene is softer. But, it is indeed more brittle as well. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Not to even mention styrene is what they make styrofoam out of and styrofoam is very soft compared to what they make PVC stuff out of like PVC pipes.
@@ThatVinylChannel you cannot correlate the material used (2 different materials and compositions) with how it degrades or not. You are thinking like 'harder' means something like steel or more impervious to damage but not the case in this regard. It's harder, more brittle and will wear faster than vinyl because of the different material used in the process. It also has a terrible sound resonance factor on top of these other factors - a higher frequency resonance also indicating it's harder not softer.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Well, today I came across my 2nd styrene LP in my collection. I can tell it is styrene because it has glued-on labels and the outer edges are trying to lift off the record.. Holding it up to the light I cannot see any light coming through it at all. So, respectfully, that is not a surefire way to tell if it's styrene or not. The label seems to be the best bet!
What about stylus wear with this new technic and material??.
I really got tired of vinyl. Since I'm using my Tannoys with a wiim pro plus via analog output. I won't get back. I own a Technics 1200 mk2 with an Akai pc180 shibata nude stylus/cartridge anyway...
It’s always plastic it shouldn’t change that much. For info here: ruclips.net/video/TMNotrS1rKg/видео.htmlsi=RbTzoHA8N65m9lUs
the best way, is to find and purchase a first pressing from 70-90-ties...
and recover it to a high-end with a high-tech layers, like diamond ...
that's what I focus on selling is original early pressings in my shop.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 ...and that is wise !
just try to apply some new technique with that ...
Interesting
It not being AAA is going to be the main barrier they need to address.
There is no reason why injection molded records could not be produced AAA.
I've been dying to hear a copy, i hope they sound a good as vinyl and that they will last a long time.
No matter how the record sounds, the EU will force us to use the “green” version. IF they even allow records to be pressed in the future.
yes that's the danger 100% glad to see some aware people in the comments. Seems like an early adopter of Great Reset UN dictate conformity kiss ass.
Ain’t nothing green about these just more “green washing” public relations advertising.
Thanks for video I’m all for all the crappy new music that’s being put out be injection molded hopefully the older old music will be continued to be manufactured on regular vinyl and will last a lifetime
There are regular vinyl records with flat edges. From the 50s, from last year. Jsyk
Advantage: We get rid of the word "Vinyl" that nobody ever used in the heydays of LPs.
Dis-advantage: We now get the word "green" thrown in 🤢🤮
Green like puke yes and green is the big UN induced worldwide scam to put everyone into a new type of slavery for the system - carbon credits anyone? Gretha Thumb-berg would be delighted.
Eh eh! That's just one brand. Injection-molding is the term.
Sandretto is an interesting company.
I don`t believe in these new "green" developments. Since incandescent bulbs are not available to buy legally, I realized that I don`t see much in my apartment with all this new led technology. So many of LED bulbs went direct into a trash bin and were replaced with halogen bulbs, which can still be bought, but are made in China.
Cost per record is less?
NO.
Then why do it?@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777
I paid €21 about $25 for each record...if it gets big it may have an impact but as we said in other comments manufacturers aren't worry about that...
I hate to be ‘that guy’… but Polyethylene (PE) and Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) are two different polymers. Very few, if any use-cases exist where they are interchangeable.
As an example; a Coca Cola bottle and a pre-packed sandwich box will likely be made from PET, whereas the carrier bag you bring them home in will be made from PE.
Again, sorry to be that guy 😂
it's all garbage
Yes, you are right, others have said that. I just said polyethylene shorted. In any case I did say PET so I think everybody understood
The only difference is it missing the biscuit and the compound.
Polycarbonate scratches just when you look at it
exact same thing as the fisher price records from decades ago
Records are the only product we buy that you want to be clean but we accept and even pay top dollar for them when they are filthy. Why cant anyone figure out how to get a record into its wrapper without it being covered with pubic hair and garbage?
Very interesting vid, thanks. Timely too, as I just received the new double-live Sonic Youth album, and it's got those flat edges and the different kind of sheen to the surface, and SY would be very ecologically conscious.... Label is Silver Current Records.
No it's vinyl.
Besides digital mastering .........still prefer analog mastering , WHAT about groove wear with this new material ?...........and static build up ....and noise, clocks and pops ?
Seem to have similar static of a vinyl lp. Groove wear...don't know yet! But unless you play a record over and over for hours I don't think any record will show that...at least that is my experience. Clicks and pops come from Dirt and scratches so that is the same
Most new vinyl is made from digital files.
Those vinyls don't interest me.....I listen only to vinyl recorded from analog masters otherwise vinyl has no use existing , for digital i listen to digital electronics and sources ......@@SPAZZOID100
@@SPAZZOID100 that's why I don't buy new records or reissues. the steve miller greatest hits 2 LP set I was so excited about and sounded like dog shit. So back to the original 1 LP greatest hits on vinyl that sounds great.
The "paper label" is no longer. Currently doing a ink white flood and then full color printing on top. ruclips.net/video/PEDN3oBLuXI/видео.html
Yup, I will do an update soon. I have spoken with the mastermind behind Green vinyl.
Nothing really matters except the master source quality. Without quality there, all LP's will sound mediocre.
No thanks. I love vinyl.
you mean you don't want styrene 3.0? c'mon Greta would be so sad you don't adopt her vomit mess. 😅
The stampers are made in the conventional way.
Yup! I had confirm directly from the producer here: ruclips.net/video/TMNotrS1rKg/видео.htmlsi=0WbH_ZzQ-Rq-CBpR
It's interesting, but I would not buy an injection mold record. The environmental impact is negligible, the label bubbling up and I like the look and feel of pressed vinyl.
the environmental impact Green thing is just a scam.
why the word green, is it green, are a green company, ?
It appears to have a slight dark green hue, but the main concept is less energy spent for production and a more recyclable compound.
I understand polystyrene 45s suck badly. But mostly because it is a crappy material for records. I guess it is too soft and wears fast for one thing. I would say that injection molding is OK as long as you get as good a results as stamping. No bubbles no voids etc. that can occur in that process. IF it is not as good by any degree for noise and sound quality, and lifespan, trash it.
Styrene is not softer - is harder more brittle. just try bending a vinyl record and then a styrene. one will snap - one will bend.
So when no one has a job because a machine is now doing it, who will buy the records? Between automation and AI we’ll all be sitting around our pools no doubt, at least until the wildfire/heatdome/hurricane/icestorm/etc. forces us in the house.
that's why they want the population of the world down. But yes it's the ultimate fail to get rid of humans because who you going to market to? it's the most short sighted and dangerous Grift in the history of the World. So stupid. AI is just a party trick like that included word processor when you bought the early digital type writers .. a selling point of formatting policy - but in AI case.. it's politicized.
Most records these days come from a digital source anyway. Anyone believing it’s an analogue process is kidding themselves. I’ve just seen a ‘real’ band playing their ‘real’ instruments and all their sound was captured digitally in order to process, mix and master. Those digital sources will then be sent to be pressed on an analogue format, so hipsters who love overpriced vinyl can kid themselves it’s so wholesome and ‘real’. When in fact they are just getting the exact same recording as those buying it at a third of the price or less when they buy a CD or FLAC. The only difference is they get a big clumsy sleeve and a format that won;t age with grace and degrade with each play. Plus, not all music is even analogue at the point of creation. Some music is conceived in the mind an artist and the whole process will be done from start to finish upon a computer. It’s an interesting video, but I’ll still be sticking with compact disc. I find it’s still the best way to archive a collection. The CDs I bought in the 80s are still as good as the first day I played them, however their vinyl counterparts over the years have collected, clicks, crackles and pops.
Of course 98% of modern vinyl is sourced from digital everyone know that. But you are forgetting two important factors among many, first the analog medium gives a special warm supple sound to the harsh digital recording and, most importantly, the MASTERING! The master prepared for vinyl is much less compressed and dynamic than CDs and high-res even though I use and enjoy all three (and much more). Here is a video I did on the topic: ruclips.net/video/FK31t6CgXn8/видео.htmlsi=WnMWPTGiNEO1uXEI
@@anadialog the compression for CDs is scientifically more than suitable for the human ear. We all know that. The ‘harsh’ digital sound argument is always a go to for vinyl lovers. In reality it’s a nonsense and any sound engineer worth his salt will tell you that. I have both vinyl and CD, even cassette and a decent set up to play them all and I’d say when new, compact disc and vinyl were similar in quality. However, let time pass, I’m 35 years into collecting music and my CDs sound crisp and clear, my vinyl recordings don;t always. The passage of time and usage will only compound this. So if you like imaginary ‘warmer, less harsh’ sounding vinyl, that’s fine, but you’re going to have it with pops and crackles. Did the artist record those? No of course not, so this is distortion or degradation from the original source. On top of this and a separate matter entirely is that vinyl is a rip off, often more than £30 for a new LP! You can go and buy a second hand CD that plays perfectly fine for £3 and it will last you decades. As someone who archives music I would highly recommend CD. For its sound, it’s ability to remain intact, it’s physical size and it’s affordability. I’d swap out every piece of vinyl in my collection if someone could give me the CD equivalent.
So splatter discs will not longer be a thing.
I imagine multicolored discs would be easy but not splatter.
"applied"
No, no you can't see or know from the dead wax if it is the first or the last pressing for those metal parts. 😂
You at most know what metal parts it is but not if it is the last pressing WITH those metal parts when they are worn out and scraped.🎉
Of course you can simply it’s something rare
@@anadialog no! you put the stampers (metal parts) in the press.
And nobody goes in and mark 1, 2, 3,...1000th..
That will NEVER happen (but if I am wrong please direct me to that information!)
But what will happen is in the common 3 step process they can from the father make many sons (stampers/metal parts).
Those stampers can and will be marked as first copy of the father second copy of the father and so on..
In the end the father will be degraded and a new father from the mother is needed to be done.
So you ONLY know what your number of copy that stamper had from the father.
But if you got the first or the last pressing before the scrapped the stampers you will never know (that from the lead out) when they are worn out.
That is NOTHING you can know about!
That is 3 reasons why we fork out more money for a test pressing.
One is that a test pressing run is low numbers so you will not get the 1000th..
The second is that it is ALSO a early father copy from the mother and the third thing that the stampers (sons) is also early from the father.
"Early" as usually one of the first..
But 1 to nr 1000 (if that is the max number they do on a pair of stampers) that is nobody that knows from the info in the Dead wax (lead out).
Only the pressing machinist know that number.. 🥳
Pet and polycarbonate are not the same pet wont sound as clean as polycarbonate very cheap but not the same
Styrene 3.0 😅
Carbon credits included?? 😂 seriously I'm going to puke. that's green if I just had a smoothie... Green is another defintion for worldwide scam.