How NOT to get a turret working!
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- In this video we attempt to get the electrical turret system working on this Berlin Brigade Chieftain tank.
Bearing in mind it hasn't worked since it left service in 1988 and we only have second hand parts and very few of them. But what we actually need is someone who is highly experienced in the gunnery system, which is not us.
What should I try next?
Do a flip, that's a neat trick!
Did you try turning it on and off again?
Have you tried putting Raspberry Jam into the Fire Control System, then putting the vehicle into 1st gear and see if the track tensioner works automatically? If not, then try 20 liters of gasoline and claim on the insurance.
Fitter Matt dressed in drag with a dead fox around his neck as a pack of 30 hounds chases him across a field?
That cmdrs control unit is part of the FCS....he can see all the info on the system and make changes etc. Barrel wear (rounds fired) Temps etc. The search light on the side of the turret should work without the metadynes working as it works with the hand controls only. The battle mode fuse does not over ride the sensors.....it links the turret and hull batteries together.
I was an ECE for 24 years and need to tell you that you should NEVER just switch everything on without doing a proper setup of the FVGCE (Fighting Vehicle Gun Control Equipment ie the big box you just fitted) First thing to do is make sure that the turret can rotate using BATTERY Traverse! Then AFTER the Control Cubicle has been set up (That requires the use of the central module (with the two meters) between the Servo amplifiers etc. It also tests that the Power Supply Unit (The box that smoked ) is providing all the correct voltages to the units in the Control Cubicle. Once that is done you should test the Traverse systems first WITHOUT turning on the elevation metadyne. If you power up both you could end up with the gun running out of control if the gyro is faulty! I was horrified to watch the video when you just switched it all on without setting it up first! Every time a Power Supply unit is swapped out the system requires adjustment! You need the EMER For the Gun Kit.
Baller.
Do you have it?
High quality comment.
could it be your youtube time to shine?
Possibility on helping out?
Jim
sounds like its time for your youtube debut!
Mate I was an ECE for many years and mirror the comments of my colleague in the comments above - to make the FVGCE work correctly (stabilised) you need the Gyro unit mounted under the breech, the TTASU (trunion tilt and angle of sight unit) mounted up near the gunners periscope (might be the e smashed unit you mentioned), the trimming unit mounted above the traverse gearbox in front of the gunner which the gunner operates a few knobs to trim out any traverse or elevation creep, the CIU (computer) under the gunners seat which the CCMU next to the commander talks to and displays ballistic calculation data - I suspect the best you can do is to get the emergency traverse workin, which iirc is operated by the big lever on front of the control cubicle and then gripping the grip switch and traversing left and right - for that you need either the main engine or gue to be on line producing 28 V - if the engines are failed or not on line then the 2 turret batteries could be used for power by means of the override master control (oh my Christ) lever on the turret distribution box to the left of the commander seat - as best as I can hear from the video neither the elevation or traverse gearbox clutches are closing when the grip switch lever is pulled which indicates a common fault - it should make a loud click and then you can operate the thumb switch up and down etc but, please believe me when I say that if you get that to happen without the gyros etc properly working you WILL have a rogue turret and the turret monster will rip your arm/leg/head off ! - operation of the emergency traverse doesnt use the gyros/stabilisation eqpt just a simple left and right with manual elevation
Getting that searchlight operating has be your next priority; 'lamping' in a Chieftain would be a great watch!
Quality lamping. It will need oddballs speakers for the squecker.
Except for the rabbits :-) Do you need HESH for rabbits or is sabot sufficient? 🙂
@@loydsa depends on how much of the bunny you want left to eat.
@@loydsa hesh of course
If that search light works you won't need ammo, just shine the light on the rabbit. The site of the tank will scare the crap out of it, so no need to gut it, and It'll burn the fur right off and pre cook it with the heat the light generates L.O.L
Love how you volunteer Jack to touch the electrical boxes, switches and triggers, "don't worry Jack it'll be safe!" 🤣🤣
Mate...you really need to pull every fuse and clean them and the seat it sits in. That whole system is moisture rotted from sitting. It will clean up well, but you will be chasing your tail forever if you dont go through it all. legend episode though !!! I love this channel.
Had this issue with one car. Fuse holders just corroded, but i was looking the wires and connectors for damage. Check and clean the fuses that is the first step. Then power each unit separately, though even this is problematic since some systems need load or something will blow... ie had mosfet detonate on garage/torpedo heater when there was no load from the glow plug. And this is why you want to get person who actually knows the stuff to do first check up on the system, well as removing motors ability to turn anything but its axle before system has checking that it wont go out of control. Doing it like they did can lead to damage of the system or the user. This type of systems usually are pretty well designed to be idiot proof, but lack of maintenance and bad storage can bring out issues that was not foreseen.
As a long ago retired REME A mech, I love watching your videos. The sound of the Chieftain MBT starting up brings back many memories. It has been said in various comments about how dangerous the turret is. In training we were told NEVER to operate the turret unless doing it manually (i.e. to get it in the right position to do a pack lift). Either an ECE, tank cmdr and gunner were only ones allowed. They warned us of the crazy things it could do. If we did manually move the turret, we always made sure we sat inside the turret seats (e.g. cmdrs or gunners) as anything trapped outside the "turret basket" could lead to lost limbs or other important body parts.
Just crazy. I'm wondering how many soldiers have died in was because of these dangers of a tank
I can add, having done that job for 22 years, there's an awful lot to learn on that control system alone, starting with safety.
It's a big monster when it goes wrong, I've seen a few people get badly injured.
Knowing exactly how it should work properly is also a good start.
Trying to fully start an unknown system is pretty dangerous to say the least
You might find a fibreglass brush is a very useful tool for cleaning electrical contacts in a multi-pin plug. These work a bit like a propelling pencil so that when it gets a bit dirty and tatty, you can cut off the tatty end and wind out some fresh brush.
Very funny episode, top work as usual
"We could get two batteries" 🤣
When the merch arrives, that’s the first t-shirt!
I don't think even Milwaukee make a battery powerful enough to turn a Chieftain turret.
I am an electrical engineer and my heart goes out to you. There might be as much work in getting old corroded electronics to work reliably as in the whole of the rest of the tank's mechanics.
I just love how chilled he is when he says the worst thing that could happen is a bit of an electrical explosion. kills me, love the videos!!!
I’ve never felt so interested in seeing a turret turn in my life! Best of luck and can’t wait for the next video.
Same here
When the PSU is turned on...wait for 30 to 40 seconds. There should be an audible change in the PSU noise. Only then start the Mets which should cause a very distinct noise in the GUE motor as it loads up. All safeties to on including the drivers in front of his chin. Fingers crossed.
The unit by the commanders leg is the fire control computer module.
Yeah did that tank not come with a manual?!😂
BATTLE MODE! This was on military gensets we used to work on, basically overrides all protections . . Therefore if there was a battle and you needed commas but your set was over heating, enter battle mode and it would run until catastrophic failure. Had one of those cool AF red switches where you lift the red cover to move the toggle. I guess it is a standard military feature.
our jltvs in the marine corps today have a combat overide feature that does the same thing you can get njpd if you touch it though
Hi Joe. Have you turned the safety switch on in the drivers compartment as well? You need the loader and commander safety switches on and also the one in the drivers compartment, on my Chieftain it was just in front of the drivers periscope, I remember catching it sometimes when getting out and turning the whole tanks gun kit off - happy days!
Good on you for recognising when to seek assistance. There's such a high level of complexity in that system that is going to be relatively easy to bugger something up, especially in 'Battlefield Override' mode (or Warranty Void mode, as we called it a Caterpillar Defence Products)
For cleaning the oxidation/grime off of electrical contacts, I can’t recommend Deoxit enough, works a treat.
Could definitely build a new, vastly simplified turret control system. Some off the shelf parts and a bit of programming.
But yeah hopefully you manage to get it sorted.
Chieftain, powered by Arduino!
Reliability of that system would be sus... then again so is this one due lack of maintenance and proper storage.
@@markdammes1947 Na, Raspberry chieftain pi.
Fascinating. Back in the late '70s I worked for Marconi where we manufactured the Gun Control Equipment, (GCE). My job was to test and repair, if needed, everything in that cubicle. The servo amps lost the valves around '80 and became 'solid state'. What you have there, I guess, is prior to IFCS being fitted.
No, it is an IFCS tank.
When you do some soldering, double check the joint with a multimeter to see it has zero ohms across the solder joint.
Former naval weapons engineer here (no tank experience). You need to gather as much documentation as you can find on everything. The tank is going to be around long after those with hands-on experience have passed away. The documentation would make it far easier to maintain, setup, troubleshoot. I don't know how old the tank is, but I see 60's technology. Valves and no PCBs. Hand written component identifiers.
Big boys playing with big boys toys, brilliant stuff , I love it , good luck lads ,I hope you get it to work 👍
A Chieftain Tanker watching this video will probably be watching this video with his head in his hands and screaming no, no, no and you do not do it that way!
We were taught never, ever do half that stuff.....but if it works..🤣
Nah, that'll be a REME Vehicle Electrician's job or a civvy in a base workshop 😂
I can’t remember ever going near the metadynes, in fact we may not have even been allowed. I think it was strictly for the ECEs. “Remmy” electronics specialists to you, Matt.
ECE above, not very impressed and gave some good advice 😂
Looks like the power unit includes a rotary inverter to generate a high voltage from the low voltage battery. Quite possibly this is what supplies the anodes of the valves in the other boxes at 150 to 300 volts or so.
What a channel 😂 battle mode and a cup of tea, what could possibly go wrong. Keep up the good work guys 👍
Great to watch you guys. I am an old military 'vehicler', but have never worked on armour, so I enjoy your work. Keep going, but be careful. The black soldered items which you changed are diodes. They have a white stripe at one end showing the polarity.
Get em the wrong way around and whatever you want to work, won't.
Ah another perfect day of " give a poke and see what happens lol"
If in doubt get Jack to do it 😅
Looks like you got your hands full with that bit of kit !!
Looking forward to next Exciting episode of " will it work or do we hit it with something "
Great video as always guys !!
excellent vid as usual - loving the banter as ever - jacks banter is particularly strong today - surprisingly strange how well that cammo works even in a farm yard - can't wait for you to go shopping at Tesco/Asda/Waitrose, where ever, and see it in its natural Urban zone where we can get a better idea of the cammo working
Thank you for taking us along for your troubleshooting. This was damn interesting and very enjoyable.
26:06 to 26:37 is the best 30 seconds of youtube I've watched in a while 😂
Having worked military if a CB is poping you need to ask why which is what you have done..
Military electronics stuff is pretty robust but resistors are not zener diodes.. lol..
Love watching the site..
Hi guys, the Chieftain is lookingbgood, best regards from a Kiwi living in Australia 👍👍👍👍
Personally I would ensure that the gearbox for the turret traverse has not seized. I've worked on gearboxes for several armoured vehicles as well as naval equipment. If the gearbox removal is too difficult then try to separate the pinion from the ring sufficiently to check rotation of the gearbox while not engaged in the ring.
I saw the start of the video and all the ancient complex electro-mechanical and electronics linked together with multiple connectors and cables with unknown prevenance and thought, not a hope in hell of that working. Sadly I was right. If it was anything like the aircraft industry, every one of the components would have had dedicated test equipment (STTE) , so they could be proven in isolation before installation. There are far too many variables to just install it all and hope it works. I wish you the best of luck with your goal, but it's the most complex thing you have attempted.
All the battle links do is allow the gun control eqpt to be used when the GUE is inop. You can then operate it using the main engine, even when it drops below 1000rpm.
If all else fails, you can just bypass them. As in, switch to power to motor simple. Those boxes look ancient and complicated with several possible points of failure. So, unless you're planning on taking Seb's renovated chariot into battle (and if you are, maybe keep that to yourselves), it might be easier to just go around most of the combat-related features. But please try to get the boxes working first!
Truly a Chieftain moment.
Hey guys , you crack me up , love your perseverance when most would throw in the towel. Keep on truckin Bruce NZ
The cards look rough but atleast the backplan looks good. The backpan pins where the cards plug into when sitted is usually where the issues are at with that amount of corrosion. The cards are typically easier to repair/ deal with if faulty rather then a bad backpan
Very amusing. Having tried all the random bits that don't seem to be working probably a good time to ask someone who knows what the problem is.
Yea, glass valves! I remember them well, Everything had them once upon a time. T.V's, radios, record players, car radios, amplifiers. The glow you mention is the heater circuit inside them and that and the glass envelopes themselves were very prone to failure under harsh conditions. The Yanks, I think, invented the "cold cathode tube" in the late 1950's which had a metal envelope and needed no heater. All these things were eventually replaced by by transistors and eventually integrated circuits chips. Now entire device circuits can be hidden away inside a rectangle of brown plastic only a few centimetres square.
Get a glass fibre brush from RS it is great for cleaning contacts and PCBs
The inside of that looks like akira! So many cool cables...... nightmare tho! Great stuff boys!
I think that you are on the right track working backwards from the actuator motors, if changing out the actuators doesn't fix it it will be a major part. Otherwise you work forward from the control switches. Love the turret content.
I’ve got the schematic for the PSU. Looks like the breaker that’s tripping is X1. Is that correct? If so that breaker supplies the motor that drives the AC generator that supplies the logic with 115VAC and 300VDC (through a rectifier), and also the motor that drives a DC generator that provides 300v DC.
So get into the PSU and check out those 2 drive motors, looking for anything that drags the motor down and causes high current.
I have to ask, where do you go about getting a schematic for a Chieftain tank turret control PSU?
I volunteer at a museum in ontario , canada. We have a couple of chieftains and have some good contacts in the uk chieftain fraternity.
"Playing With Turrets" the game to drive the whole family insane. 😊😊😊
When you get this beauty working, you know where to send it ;)
I love the camouflage on the tank
What tank?
@@Pugjamin good point
Really cool camouflage
I know absolutely nothing about this, but I like your work. I hope the necessary expertise steps forward and you get sorted. There seems to be just about enough safety in the tank (ie the trip) to stop you killing yourselves. There also seemed to be a fuse missing in the box you repaired, but that might have just been a holder for a spare. Looking forward to the next installment!!
I love the diagnostic/troubleshooting videos
Whatta beast, looks awesome.
I know you guys are grappling in the dark sometimes, but it's really great to watch the learning curve , I'm enjoying every video so much , but next time let Ted have a go with the AVO test set first😂
Make sure the individual relay units are working correctly, always test the Traverse system on it own first and isolate the gun controls, if you can track down a PLAICE and run the correct tapes, it might be possible to get the CIU to carry out some self tests on the CCMU display. Perhaps you might try finding a SS PSU 3/1 to improve things? Have you got a copy of any turrest system AESPs and have a very close lookat both relay units. From what i remember the relay units aren't interchangable or transposable ether!!
Amazing this tank is very beautiful with this paint. you have my Abonnement I definitely want to be informed when a new video of you comes out i love your projekts. welldone
Get some ACF50, absolutely brilliant stuff, cleans and protects, don’t get the aerosol though, better applied sparingly by brush
That paint looks really smart 😀
Like any project you get stops n starts. It will come right in the end. Great job so far.
Looking at this tank much better than I ever have...I can't help but to think this thing would have been a friendly fire magnet. The shape of this tank looks so close to the Warsaw Pact tanks of the same era. Especially if the turret was partially obstructed from view.
Talk about leavin us hangin!
Getting closer fella's.
Call someone from REME ;)
Cheers for sharing.
god what i would not give to work for you guys and fix all the electronics for all those sweet machines. keep everything original with the tank .
Lol i was horrified watching this 😮 trying to get turret to work wow ! Ok iam an ex tank driver Challenger 2 my god mr huwes what ya doing man lol ya gonna get killed not following starting and testing procedure, Good luck with the videos i love watching them please do things correctly 🙏
Bypass all the computer crap which will always cause problems, even if you solve this one. Basically all you need is a power supply to the motors and a toggle switch. Leave the big boxes in there for authenticity. I've done the same with the rear end of my tractor, old processors and hours of fault finding gone from interfering with what is just an up and down control.
Looks like fun electrical repairs
It would be good I think if someone had the manuals for these vehicles they would give them or sell them to you so you have a proper reference to make sure you do it right 👍👍
I once was an electronics tech for a weapon system that lived on top of a US Army tracked vehicle(a box) with a turret; I CAN'T believe that you skipped getting those kind of manuals before trying to bring this great beast back to life.
Actually, if you had those manuals, a half-decent electrical engineer could probably design a box which could replicate ALL the functions of ALL those boxes in a single, smaller unit, and do the job better. But, anyone who COULD do that would - of course - want to be paid for their time and effort.
I looked to see if The Chieftain had actually left a comment, and couldn't find one by Mr Moran, himself; I suspect that he wouldn't want to touch this project with a barge pole. But, being an esteemed and knowledgeable individual - and a thoroughly nice chap - he would probably advise that you contact someone like the Tank Museum and to try to get a Chieftain specialist to give you a few pointers(and maybe steer you in the direction of some of those applicable tech manuals).
Mainly, remember that a tank is mostly a windowless metal box designed to protect the occupants from pesky rifle bullets and - after the Great War, machine guns - and the turret is a smaller version of it. Therefore, it's thick metal and VERY heavy, and anything designed to move it using electricity will be using enough juice to kill you, very quickly and thoroughly, usually without any warning...and, NO do-overs.
Watching your videos, I've seen dozens of things that would once have brought me to my feet, yelling. But you're still alive and your Chieftain looks great in it's new paint-job. Best advice I can give you is: "if it works, DON'T fix it."
So, good luck with your interesting project. Good Fortune attend you and PLEASE - be careful.
Bloody brilliant you blokes are. Alright then! Carry on
cracking jobs chaps
check these tubes if top is not whiteish like ash inside. They have to be mirror like in top. If they ash like colour inside means air in them = kaput. cheers
Enjoying this .
Amazing electronic technology of the period 👍🏼🏴☠️✌🏼
Beautiful Tank!!!❤❤❤
That paint job is bang on sexy
We all stumble with things, but considering in your words you've got no idea what you're doing (wrong) that's tremendous progress! Should've got Ted in there, he'll know what's up with the turret!
You have to blow in them like old Nintendo cartridges 😂
Get yourself some fibreglass and brass wire retractable pencils for cleaning up any contacts like that, great for removing corrosion on small parts
23:39 When that switch was thrown something drew a heck of a lot of power since the engine (not the electric one) went town in rpm quite much in two steps.
love that camo scheme so much
A mildly acidic or alkaline ultrasonic cleaner/solvent and a ultrasonic cleaner works well with grimy electronics! also saves so much time.
Awesome 👏, never succeed unless you’re willing to try!👍
Great to admit you don’t know everything about a Chieftain…… but there are people on here that do😂……we all need these people😉👍🏼
Sometimes to get a ICE starter motor going in a pinch, you can knock on the side of it with a block of wood and a hammer to loosen it up enough to get it to turn over. I know this isnt a starter motor but it could break the seal of the corrosion enough just to break it free
Needs more Ted.
i love watching your videos
Joe!! What I did notice was the inside of your ears was spotless compared to the vintage cam u boards😂😂😂😂
those red multi pin back plain connectors look like the old ones the CB radios used to use, might be useful to know if you can not find replacement ones.
That box needs a complete strip and clean. You can't compromise with stuff like that.
Never let the magic blue smoke out!
Epic soldering skills HAHAHAHA! Thanks for the chuckle :)
Wow!
That’s cool tank!!!
I love it!❤
those circuits look so simple to fix! thats nuts. Probably made that way for a reason i guess
I am sure the cost would be prohibitive, but it would be really cool to see these tanks (on the interior at least) dry ice blasted. Would probably have worked wonders on those connections as well.
16:37 there's no need for that sort of splooge encrusted cave dweller comment
this channel deserves so much more!
this camo is pretty! well done!
Might not be the motor could just be the little battery can't provide enough power to move it under load.
You would have to drop the turret motor and clean and free it. You will not get it freed while it is engaged with the drive gear. I would look up into the drive to make sure there was no damage in the drive part while motor in out.
“We could get 2 batteries…” Solid!!
Them capacitors you changed, they be diodes mate! Funniest craik on utube. G'day from Tasmania
2:20 odd, 2 of those valves look like they may have went to air, the getter at the top is white not shiney silver. but may be the lighting etc.
That paint job is absolutely pukka!
A lot of cadmium corrosion on those plugs, take care lads, not good for the swimmers.
Fairly confident in saying none of these lads will get a girl pregnant anytime soon 😂