Hello, I am the mantainer of Icaros Desktop and I would like to thank you for your video. It's always great to see proofs of appreciation of all the astounding work AROS and 3rd party apps developers have done. I am just trying to mix them all together in a way they can inter-operate to get the best possible modern Amiga-like experience.
@@electrictroy2010 maybe to you but definitely porting old OS to modern day hardware is very useful. if you knew anything about desktops, you'd realise that workbench is actually pretty useful. This (Aros), React, and Haiku are all very impressive OS's.
@@BiohazardX9 Haiku also has a decent webkit-based browser capable of youtube playback and a ton of apps ported over from linux (mostly qt/kde apps) including vlc, libre office, telegram desktop. Most usable from all of these small alternative OSes. Too bad they don't have any working arm port, it would be perfect desktop OS for raspberry pi.
With AROS, I wish we still had Fred Fish around. He rallied a lot of the community to open source and helped us get the tools needed to bring the platform forward without Commodore. AROS is the future, but getting a group of Amiga developers to agree on anything needs a respected early leader behind it. If only Carl Sassenrath or someone of the like would step up
I was about to post "+1", despite it felt too few. Then I remebered I still own various Amiga, so as a much deserved tribute, here they come in "+" form :-) +500 ! +1000 ! +4030 !
@@manuel-xax I started pretty late into the game around '95. Still got a 2000 (040) and a 3000 (060), with a plain jane 1000 in the mail. Never has another computer inspired me to dig in and enjoy using it even before running any software like the Amiga has
@@mshular I owned a 2000 (later added a 030+882 accelerator board). The 3000 is the one I never had, despite it was the most beautiful beside the 1000. Just like you, in my eyes the Amiga was the most inspirational computer I ‘ve owned. It took over 20+ years before I started to really like a lot (almost « an Amiga lot » !) another computer. That other computer is my base model M1 MacBook Air, by the way.
Welcome to "The FOSS Problem" Amiga Community! Seriously, give it a few years and next thing you know you'll be having arguments about which variant of a dozen FOSS system components (that all do the same thing) is "better". In another ~20 years you're going to have an executable format war that will continue... effectively forever. Cheers, from a begrudging Linux user.
I figured the biggest problem would be drivers especially with the lack of documentation for devices especially graphics cards and peripherals although those aren't necessarily as important.
To get around the lack of USB boot, I bet this would work with Ventoy, which is a tool that lets you launch ISO files from a USB drive. This would probably be the best option currently until they get a native USB installer option working.
Great video, Dan. Always nice to see some appreciation of the massive amount of work people have contributed to developing AROS, just a shame more with the ability/knowledge don't get involved.
Beside doing it for nostalgia, if there is no revenue model, people with skill and ability and knowledge won't spend their time on it. Unless you have free time to spend and prove you can run raytracing on an atari 800 to show how skilled you are, anything else is done mostly for the purpose of getting money in your bank account. If they start to sell AROS, you can bet that more people will try to make a check out of it, and you will see people with skill and knowledge joining in.
I would really love to see these os' being ported to the new upcoming risc-v architecture :) this would be a really fun potentially smaller code-base to learn more about os development, especially with an open architecture with more and freely available documentation
Thanks Dan, looks like Icaros has come a long long way, the integration is what interests me the most, I might have to try this on an old netbook! Great video, makes me wonder how easily we could port chrome or something :)
Aros is awesome! I used to have so much fun beta testing software on my Aros PCs, it's so ideal for Amiga hobbyists and such a shame it gets ignored or overlooked.
Great video Dan, With ICAROS Morphos and Amithlon we have it covered. how ever it would be some much better if everyone just played from the same song sheet, then we could have something really great.
It is the the grand scheme of things. The proof is how a ten year old pc can still play 1080p60 RUclips perfectly and can still browse the web perfectly (with slightly choppy scrolling, of course).
2009 is still recent history to me. It's kind of like seeing people saying how they were watching "Lucky Star" when they were kids, but *my* anime growing up were "Gigantor" and "Speed Racer".
Really cool video. I bought a Vampire V4 Standalone last year and have Coffin, 3141, 321, and Apollo OS (fork of AROS). I only got into Amiga 2 years ago. Oh yeah I also bought a x5000 motherboard for OS41 with an AMD RX590 GPU for OS41and just added a Radeon X1950XTX which Morph OS can now use with hardware acceleration! Expensive but cool.
A big problem is always going to be hardware support and the amount of effort needed to support just a few PC models. I would be in favor of focusing on a popular platform like Raspberry Pi however their Broadcom GPU is closed source so no way to get accelerated graphics. Even with open source hardware, just writing a GPU driver for a different OS is an insane amount of work. Considering this I strongly believe the best future for AROS is hosted on Linux. You get all the benefits on the Linux kernel (support for basically any hardware) while the Amiga devs can focus on the user experience and the userspace software stack. Heck, even add kernel support for m68k binaries and maybe even emulation in the kernel for a seamless integrated experience. I don't mean to diminish the hard work of AROS devs, they have done an amazing job. But trying to be realistic, this is my point of view.
Aros ran surprisingly well on old netbook acer inspire one, I remember it supported all the hardware of that device too, wifi, usb drives, vga out, I used that for a time as my Amiga fix on the road (and did website programming on that netbook) it was a great little package. I think when the dev focus on one device the system was much better for it. Aros is a great Amiga solution but it does still need a bit more spit and polish so to speak. I hope the platform popularity improves, because it does deserve more respect for being an alternative to all the legal mess that let’s face has cast a shadow over the platform ever since commodore went under.
It would have been nice to see a game running in 68k integrated mode with the Amiga Forever roms. I admire the passion and if they get the USB drive option solid, I'd check it out for old time's sake. I wonder if they could include the Linux kernel as an option to increase the library by an order of magnitude
Great video again! Make sure you check the AROS versions for the Vampire as well: ApolloOS & Aros Caffeine. BTW the name for directory is drawer, not folder in Amigan :P
I dont understand why Amiga os demos always feature a paint program as the big prize. Who cares about a paint program! How about somehing useful like torrent, chat client, modern email client, ftp client, ssh, anything modern. I am a huge amiga fan and love where aros has ended up and would really like it to also be useful on a daily basis with a decent networking stack and utilities preinstalled.
I actually find AmigaOS 4.1 way more flexible regarding UI compared to Windows 10. Even back in the days when I had a super-expanded A1200 with AmigaOS 3.9 + a bunch of free software that I downloaded from Aminet.... I could customize my UI waaaaaay more than I can with Windows 10. And that is back in 1998-2000.
I prefer the old 1990's ui paradigms. Unfortunately, Windows ui design moved further away from it over time. Windows 8 was the final nail in the coffin.
I owned an Amiga 500 and later a 2000. Great in their day but what's the point of an Amiga in 2022? I see it as being even more niche than Linux. Does it really compete with anything current?
Yeah. Same with BeOS/Haiku. I remember Dan did a video about it and it was very lacking. I wanted BeOS to succeed but its fate is pretty much sealed when Apple bought NeXT.
I think that the AROS needs to be gone through with a fine toothed comb and packages that are incomplete or crash should be removed until they have been completed and got working.
I agree on this, and that's why I am always asking people to report issues, compatibility problems, regressions and any software package that won't work as expected. I generally remove them from the distribution until a fix has come. But while this happily happened in the past, today I don't receive feedback anymore and problems live unnoticed up to the following releases.
If you have Amiga Forever, they have AROS as a prebuild image ready to go. Double click and it launches directly into Wanderer (Workbench). Probably a little easier for most people, rather than trying the x86 build booting from a live CD and hoping it works with your bare metal hardware, or if you lack the actual Amiga to try it on.
@@bbuggediffy Dan literally didn't do what you said in his video. He even mentioned using Amgia Forever to copy it over. It's almost like you've not even bothered to watch the video before jumping on my comment. Do you even Amiga Bro?
@@dataterminal I'm a bit doubtful Dan actually booted it on bare metal, because there was a VMWare VMSVGA driver popup during the install. I'm not sure if that'd pop up on real hardware, maybe Dan can clarify.
Powerpc is still around in the form of the power architecture, you can get a some parts for building a power9 developer workstation desktop from raptor computing, plus the power architecture, the same architecture behind the older powerpc processors is open-source now. The latest version of the power isa, is v3.0 the same version behind the newer IBM power10 server processors!
I use a Toshiba P105-S6197 Laptop with 4 GIG Memory and a 120G HDD. I have FS-UAE Linux usb boot, installed on the HDD so when I turn on the Laptop it boots straight to an Amiga 500 with WB 1.3 : I can add ADF disk to the folder to boot games or workbench etc by using a windows bootable USB drive to edit the Linux HDD files. You can edit the Config file to boot any Amiga you want, 500 - 4000. I also use FS-UAE to configure new systems and test them, then just copy the new system config file to the laptop and set the system config file to boot the new system.
Thanks Dan, this looks great. My reservation about using AROS beyond playing is security based. Linux has the benefit of thousands of engineers working on it and apps.
@@bzuidgeest That's quite true. I wouldn't trust it with my banking info that's for sure. But I don't think anybody would really take advantage of a system that is used on a few thousands of computers worldwide when there is a gazillion Windows PC's that are often very poorly maintained that could be accessed.
It’s a great project but think UAE for 68k is a bit of a jump in the wrong direction. It rather mimics the way 68k Mac apps ran on OSX. A complete os running in the background. OSX flipped over to running powerpc applications on OSX intel with then at the mercy of the OS with an application running mixed PowerPC for the application with API calls going to intel. Bet very few 68k apps are well enough behaved to live in that world.
This true, AmigaOS programs depends on hardware they run on for sound its Paula chipset, for timing it’s the CIAA/CIAB chips, and for graphics its Denice, taking out this chip means the games do not know what to do. Also, API has changed over the years. Some programs will only work on a particular kickstart version.
That's Amiga, a computer of the 80s which had to live with hardware boundaries of the time, and in many ways it won on them. But time has lasted and yes, AROS looks really old for todays standards. We even lack of hardware acceleration for the desktop operations, which is something that became quite common only 15 years ago. But now we are in 2022.
Heck, I'm a new prospective user and I'm interested. I think this may be the time I finally buy a PowerPC based Mac Mini. I'll start trying it on my iBook G4 first though.
Love this! I've totally missed that this exists ^^ you seem know a thing or two so maby you know if there are any program out to "filter ' a modern song too an modul-song and automatic scale the voice away, stripping it, if you know what I mean. Regards
There really needs to be an online portal where you can get real time help. My biggest complaint with Amiga 3.2.1 was the back and forth between forum and PC became too tedious for people like me trying to get back into the old machine. Also, I notice that the real machine experience isn't as good as the emulated PC experience.
I think if I were to set up a computer I'd love to get a more modern computer up and running, get some nice looking badges for the case then find out if I could get a modern keyboard with custom keycaps. Somehow using a keyboard with windows layout and keycaps would takeaway from the look.
The virtualization aspect is really promising, suggesting one day Windows would run in Linux (SEAMLESSLY, I know about the partial implementations) and perhaps Windows (SEAMLESSLY) running in Icaros. This would encourage oeople to migrate over.
What do you mean by "Partial"? We have a load of options and they all do it differently. IMO, you can already do this perfectly seamless with Qubes, rDesktop (namely it's SeamlessRDP package), Virtualbox on Linux has a "seamless" mode, but that requires the official repo package provided by Oracle (not Canonical's "Ubuntu edition" check your package name, if it ends in "_Ubuntu" you've got Canonical's oddball version), and WINE can too if you stretch the meaning of "virtual" a bit. I might have my SEVERE gripes with Linux as a workstation environment... but even I can't deny how well it integrates with other OSes.
@@qus123 I should have explained that I am interested in migration to a Amiga like UI for Linux at the click of a button. A simple Amiga-like UI which would make it easier to adopt a Linux environment. I've experimented with a few Linux distros and this would be one of that last obstacles to solve IMO.
@@timetorelaxfocus9642 Depends on your definition of "click of a button" but there already exists AmiWM, which is a Linux window manager modeled after the Amiga's
Does the Amiga have a future? Well not like what we're used with PC's. But there are still people out there programming games, music, applications and demos, especially on Next Gen Amigas to show the community and world how awesome it is to programm something new in retrostyle. AROS is key for this. Anyone can use this OS without the neverending license shizzle.
No, its legacy OS for a nostalgic trip, it is slowly improving but its hacker OS, not something you want to use, if you want security, its also not OS you can trust to not crash on you.
Does AROS or any other AmigaOS option offer a built-in file-sharing feature, for sharing between AmigaOS set-ups and/or sharing with Win/Mac environments? What about a screen-sharing feature?
If they can clean up the UI and get the major apps bug free, this could be a handy option next to Linux if MS continues to turn Windows 11 into a total cash-grab-and-user-control dystopia.
There fundamental design decisions in AmigaOS API compared to UNIX API, that result in less secure OS, stack and IPC are the main problem areas. If AmigaOS was adapted more UNIX like approach to stack, the source code wont run anymore.
Q: Hang on a minute... you say one of those operating systems, something you're calling "Morph" (...did I hear that right?) is locked into PowerPC architecture, and that's a problem. Wasn't that derived from ARM / RISC architecture, which we now see in the Raspberry Pi and all portable computers (including phones). Also, the Apple Silicon chip is also said to be something of a return to 'PowerPC'-type architecture - which ought to be ARM-based, or related. Doesn't that mean that all the efforts to port to Intel architectures is also going to fall behind-the-times, all over again? Let us hope not. This looks interesting. I might try it.
ARM and PowerPC are different architectures, ARM instructions come in 16bit and 32bit, the 32bit version looks a lot like PowerPC instructions, true. ARM sadly is not well supported on laptops, desktop, and workstations, the cost of making new hardware does come from instruction set, but instead from tiny market that’s targeted.
Sadly, there are not lot of hardware hackers writing drivers. From what I read in forums the so called hardware experts are more interested in arguing over OCS and AGA in the forums, they are not interested in PC hardware. No software works without drivers, unless you want to be forever be stuck with legacy hardware.
The problem with these things, besides just having some fun messing around, what is the point using it? What is the use case that a Win 10 can't do, and can do infinitely better. Unless it brings more to the table than just "nostalgia" it has no chance to gain any form of real traction.
Well there have been plenty of things that were technically better that have failed. I think much of it has to do with marketing, but we're talking hobbyist here, who often times like to use real Amiga hardware and not a PC that would normally have Windows on it.
I guess the point is recompiling AmigaOS programs for faster hardware, sadly AROS fails because its not 100% source code compatible, and you can’t build 680x0 assembler on x86 machine, you need to first port it to C/C++ code. And even if you did that, it wont work, as you need the Amiga custom chips to make old software work.
Hello can you help Me I'm Having an issue with my (PiStorm32Lite) for my Amiga 1200. I followed all the directions according to the PiStorm Wiki. for some reason every time I boot my Amiga I get a Blank workbench screen and a message in the top left hand corner of the Screen that says " you must insert a Volume Containing LIBS/icon.library in any drive" Now I've tried looking up this issue and I've got lost can you help me Please.
There is no future for Amiga. Hyperion has held a pillow over its face for the last 15 years and the last of its life has now been snuffed out. They should've ported to the Raspberry Pi as soon as it was released. But that would make too much sense.
I am not so interested in a Linux based Amiga OS that can run on a PC. I think having dedicated Amiga hardware is what keeps it fun for me. Still, AROS might be the only hope for the future of Amiga and I wish it well. It was an interesting video, thanks Dan :)
I don’t get it: I love Amiga, my favourite computer, spent 7 wondrful years from 87 to 94, from 12 to 19 yo: if anything I want to relive that experience, proper retrocomputing. I don’t understand what shoudl I do with a new system. I have both Windows 11 and Apple OS, don’t need another one.
Amiga was ahead of Mac and PC for years. It's a shame it wasn't better supported and developed. It was 10+ years until MS produced anything comparable for the mainstream until the late 90's.
Mostly I think it's a programmer hobby. But also, imagine you can install this new Amiga-like OS on your computer or in a VM and be able to run all the old retro apps and games, workbench, etc on it without messing with licenses for ROMs and whatnot. A pure open source Amiga experience that works out of the box. That would be pretty nice.
I've wondered how readily LibreOffice could be ported. Besides not knowing enough programming to even consider trying it myself, I also wonder if working on a different OS could be considered a conflict of interest (I work for a Linux company).
For me Amiga is sally nostalgia only with that said, I will get a fpga amiga soon, I am sure Aros is a nice OS, I would like to see some of the mod players poerted to linux though.
Burn a cd, what is this, 1995? :D try mounting an iso and "boot" of that? If not i guess there is still some work to do on the installer and whatnot hehe.
It wont boot, you are unlikely to have the AROS drivers for any random computer. you need carefully pick a computer that has the parts that’s supported.
If you get installed, you won’t have lot of native software, AROS x86 is not popular platform, no binary backwards support. You need to use UAE on top of it, to run old software.
I really like MorphOS but i accidentally damaged my Ibook G4 1.42GHz trying to install a SSD and broke the power switch wire....... Anyone here fix it for me?
Old hardware comes with older PCIe, older DDR memory standards, slower Sata, and older graphic chipsets, this means no 3D, no hardware acceleration for video etc, pick your hardware carefully if you want OS that can do things.
all it needs is any easy to use development compiler to build software Microsoft didn't build everything by themselves but they did make life for the amateur developers to easily create something if that was achieved well on amiga OS, i think it will do well Amiga OS is so underated but the information available for development is very unorganized and scattered
Very true! I still love the Amiga experience on my real machines, which are "next gen PPC amigas" (Sam460 and AOne X5000) and my emulated system in WinUAE... but as you say, a modern up to date browser is the key to success in these days.
@@TemalCageman Is there no way to get a Firefox version pushed? I work with some very good dev teams in India and Nepal. If we get enough funds, a port should surely be possible?
Amiga Forever NEEDS TO UPDATE the create CD linux used in it. I have never gotten one to boot on a system. It's too outdated the Linux FS-UAE boots and runs great. IDK about the newer Amiga OS's too much like MAC or WINDOWS I like the old WB 1.3 or 2.0 Make software for them. Otherwise AMIGA OS just becomes another Windows or MAC or LINUX version......
I love the Amiga and would fiercely defend its place in home computer history against the Atari ST or the 286-era PC. However, the key word here is "history". Arguing about its future is like arguing about a future for Queen Victoria within the monarchy. If you want your PC to run Amiga software, or buy a new machine with ancient specs to perform like your childhood computer, that's your choice- but its day is sadly long over. The collapse of Commodore and the advent of Windows 95 were the end for it.
the problem as i see it, is that if AROS and the likes cant manage "proper" web browsing at the very least then everything else is pretty but kinda pointless, the classic systems can do pretty much everything shown here already and if you are using an emulated system via say WinUAE or AmiBerry, you can get the browser support by simply running "WINLAUNCH FIREFOX" and you have instantly bridged that magic software gap. Until AROS can do what classic or classic emulated cant (which is primarily web access) then its kinda just an interesting alternative, but far from a replacement, the addition of more modern word processor and spreadsheet was a nice addition however, thats another shortcoming of classic.
I always say best Future world be a ARM version. Just think a .Mac m1 Mini is about 500€ and you got complete new (no Intel) tech that is fast as a hightec PC with Custom chips. Cheap Hardware then just a setup for Amiga OS. The best you do not have only amiga hardware you can boot macos and have a modern mac with all functions. This is the only Future i see for amiga. A custom amiga hardware like a5000 is to expensive for a normal dude and cant Open youtube (so no young Person will buy). Apple mac m1 mini is so cheap for the hardware
So… PPC is dead - ARM is the future. I’m holding out for an Amithlon/Draco like system using a Rasberry pi and Emu68 and bare metal drivers that retarget the Amiga custom chips to the PI hardware and allows for ARM compiled software to access AmigaOS APIs and run seamlessly inside workbench etc. Then, with an officially licenced ROM we can run 3.x AmigaOS - or - we can go the AROS route… that way we stay clear of all the political guff and legal shenanigans. Then, in time, more of the OS itself can be ported to ARM - and byte by byte we end up with an NG architecture 😁 And then, with market share and awareness through the pi - we launch more powerful ARM hardware… 😁 Glad to see that AROS has come along a long way since I last used it.
Oddly I think a console would have been better. Why? Because consoles have a uniformity in their hardware design that would make any software port easier, and the user experience more uniform.
@@brodriguez11000 the original Amiga began as a console - and ended up becoming a computer. The Pi is uniform hardware… they’ve also sold in the millions.
PowerPC has no replacement, that’s the problem, ARM is not a desktop CPU yet. While PowerPC and ARM is similar can do the same job. AMD/X86 is completely different CPU.
Hello, I am the mantainer of Icaros Desktop and I would like to thank you for your video. It's always great to see proofs of appreciation of all the astounding work AROS and 3rd party apps developers have done. I am just trying to mix them all together in a way they can inter-operate to get the best possible modern Amiga-like experience.
I don’t even use a computer anymore. I do everything on my phone, except when I’m at work (Windows laptop). Amiga desktop is pretty dead
.
@@electrictroy2010 maybe to you but definitely porting old OS to modern day hardware is very useful. if you knew anything about desktops, you'd realise that workbench is actually pretty useful. This (Aros), React, and Haiku are all very impressive OS's.
Is the source to Icaros available to view? I couldn’t find a link on the website.
@@keyboard_g I could not find source either.
@@BiohazardX9 Haiku also has a decent webkit-based browser capable of youtube playback and a ton of apps ported over from linux (mostly qt/kde apps) including vlc, libre office, telegram desktop. Most usable from all of these small alternative OSes. Too bad they don't have any working arm port, it would be perfect desktop OS for raspberry pi.
With AROS, I wish we still had Fred Fish around. He rallied a lot of the community to open source and helped us get the tools needed to bring the platform forward without Commodore. AROS is the future, but getting a group of Amiga developers to agree on anything needs a respected early leader behind it. If only Carl Sassenrath or someone of the like would step up
I was about to post "+1", despite it felt too few.
Then I remebered I still own various Amiga, so as a much deserved tribute, here they come in "+" form :-)
+500 !
+1000 !
+4030 !
@@manuel-xax I started pretty late into the game around '95. Still got a 2000 (040) and a 3000 (060), with a plain jane 1000 in the mail. Never has another computer inspired me to dig in and enjoy using it even before running any software like the Amiga has
@@mshular I owned a 2000 (later added a 030+882 accelerator board).
The 3000 is the one I never had, despite it was the most beautiful beside the 1000.
Just like you, in my eyes the Amiga was the most inspirational computer I ‘ve owned.
It took over 20+ years before I started to really like a lot (almost « an Amiga lot » !) another computer.
That other computer is my base model M1 MacBook Air, by the way.
Welcome to "The FOSS Problem" Amiga Community!
Seriously, give it a few years and next thing you know you'll be having arguments about which variant of a dozen FOSS system components (that all do the same thing) is "better". In another ~20 years you're going to have an executable format war that will continue... effectively forever.
Cheers, from a begrudging Linux user.
Not sure how useful Carl would be given the ups and downs of his Rebol project.
Pretty incredible that this level of OS is done by a small developer. RUclips what it takes to make a modern OS, the resources required are massive
OS itself is pretty simple. It's the applications on top of it.
I figured the biggest problem would be drivers especially with the lack of documentation for devices especially graphics cards and peripherals although those aren't necessarily as important.
To get around the lack of USB boot, I bet this would work with Ventoy, which is a tool that lets you launch ISO files from a USB drive. This would probably be the best option currently until they get a native USB installer option working.
No lack, Icaros and AROS One can boot from USB, but you can also create a PendriveLive to install AROS on HD !
Great video, Dan. Always nice to see some appreciation of the massive amount of work people have contributed to developing AROS, just a shame more with the ability/knowledge don't get involved.
Beside doing it for nostalgia, if there is no revenue model, people with skill and ability and knowledge won't spend their time on it.
Unless you have free time to spend and prove you can run raytracing on an atari 800 to show how skilled you are, anything else is done mostly for the purpose of getting money in your bank account.
If they start to sell AROS, you can bet that more people will try to make a check out of it, and you will see people with skill and knowledge joining in.
The elephant in the room is that the mascot might be the reason people aren't talking about it as much lol
I agree. The creator of this mascot is a furry degenerate. Even if you put those things aside, i find the design of this mascot quite cringe.
@@SônicoRJ it's basically ensuring that most women in tech never take part in this project
I would really love to see these os' being ported to the new upcoming risc-v architecture :) this would be a really fun potentially smaller code-base to learn more about os development, especially with an open architecture with more and freely available documentation
Absolutely brilliant look at AROS from you. Used this many years ago and even then, i found that it was very good.
Thanks Dan, looks like Icaros has come a long long way, the integration is what interests me the most, I might have to try this on an old netbook! Great video, makes me wonder how easily we could port chrome or something :)
You don't have to, run it hosted and you can access chrome or Firefox and other apps.
Try a competent all-in-one , picked up a bargain Acer qusd core many years ago at wallyworld, runs FS-UAE on nix a dream.
Aros is awesome! I used to have so much fun beta testing software on my Aros PCs, it's so ideal for Amiga hobbyists and such a shame it gets ignored or overlooked.
Great video Dan,
With ICAROS Morphos and Amithlon we have it covered. how ever it would be some much better if everyone just played from the same song sheet, then we could have something really great.
Been considering running AROS as a way to playing classic Amiga games and software.
Might run it on my own retro PC's
I still consider 2009 & 2011 a "modern day" year
It is the the grand scheme of things. The proof is how a ten year old pc can still play 1080p60 RUclips perfectly and can still browse the web perfectly (with slightly choppy scrolling, of course).
2009 is still recent history to me. It's kind of like seeing people saying how they were watching "Lucky Star" when they were kids, but *my* anime growing up were "Gigantor" and "Speed Racer".
Really cool video. I bought a Vampire V4 Standalone last year and have Coffin, 3141, 321, and Apollo OS (fork of AROS). I only got into Amiga 2 years ago. Oh yeah I also bought a x5000 motherboard for OS41 with an AMD RX590 GPU for OS41and just added a Radeon X1950XTX which Morph OS can now use with hardware acceleration! Expensive but cool.
Wow! Are you dualbooting your X5000 (AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS)? How do you set that up?
A big problem is always going to be hardware support and the amount of effort needed to support just a few PC models. I would be in favor of focusing on a popular platform like Raspberry Pi however their Broadcom GPU is closed source so no way to get accelerated graphics. Even with open source hardware, just writing a GPU driver for a different OS is an insane amount of work. Considering this I strongly believe the best future for AROS is hosted on Linux. You get all the benefits on the Linux kernel (support for basically any hardware) while the Amiga devs can focus on the user experience and the userspace software stack. Heck, even add kernel support for m68k binaries and maybe even emulation in the kernel for a seamless integrated experience. I don't mean to diminish the hard work of AROS devs, they have done an amazing job. But trying to be realistic, this is my point of view.
Aros ran surprisingly well on old netbook acer inspire one, I remember it supported all the hardware of that device too, wifi, usb drives, vga out, I used that for a time as my Amiga fix on the road (and did website programming on that netbook) it was a great little package. I think when the dev focus on one device the system was much better for it. Aros is a great Amiga solution but it does still need a bit more spit and polish so to speak. I hope the platform popularity improves, because it does deserve more respect for being an alternative to all the legal mess that let’s face has cast a shadow over the platform ever since commodore went under.
The reason for the support of that particular device is because Steve paid a developer to get drivers for it.
It would have been nice to see a game running in 68k integrated mode with the Amiga Forever roms. I admire the passion and if they get the USB drive option solid, I'd check it out for old time's sake. I wonder if they could include the Linux kernel as an option to increase the library by an order of magnitude
Lots of external USB optical drives to buy if you ever need that CD, DVD or BlueRay. And they are quite cheap.
Loving the preview and commentary.. when came to audio, we need to hear ((hopefully ASIO will be a good implementation. Thnx
damn that catto looks dashing
Thanks for laying out this video like that as it clarifies allot of confusion.
Another great video Dan. This is an interesting OS for sure
Anyone else notice the error at 13:15 ?
No Dan they are not called folders on Amiga.
Stand in the corner and face the wall.
Yep, long day 😩
I am both surprised and not surprised about seeing Eric W. Schwartz artwork accompanying such a project.
Great video again! Make sure you check the AROS versions for the Vampire as well: ApolloOS & Aros Caffeine.
BTW the name for directory is drawer, not folder in Amigan :P
Yeah brain fart on “folders” 😖
can you change the kickstart in emulated amiga?
I dont understand why Amiga os demos always feature a paint program as the big prize. Who cares about a paint program! How about somehing useful like torrent, chat client, modern email client, ftp client, ssh, anything modern. I am a huge amiga fan and love where aros has ended up and would really like it to also be useful on a daily basis with a decent networking stack and utilities preinstalled.
Its like 1990’s ui paradigms in modern window frames. Hard to inspire the future while hanging on to UX design that has long since been surpassed.
I would call it surpassed, just out of fashion
I actually find AmigaOS 4.1 way more flexible regarding UI compared to Windows 10. Even back in the days when I had a super-expanded A1200 with AmigaOS 3.9 + a bunch of free software that I downloaded from Aminet.... I could customize my UI waaaaaay more than I can with Windows 10. And that is back in 1998-2000.
I prefer the old 1990's ui paradigms. Unfortunately, Windows ui design moved further away from it over time. Windows 8 was the final nail in the coffin.
I owned an Amiga 500 and later a 2000. Great in their day but what's the point of an Amiga in 2022? I see it as being even more niche than Linux. Does it really compete with anything current?
Yeah. Same with BeOS/Haiku. I remember Dan did a video about it and it was very lacking. I wanted BeOS to succeed but its fate is pretty much sealed when Apple bought NeXT.
I don’t even use a computer anymore. I do everything on my phone, except when I’m at work (Windows laptop). Amiga desktop is pretty dead
.
I think that the AROS needs to be gone through with a fine toothed comb and packages that are incomplete or crash should be removed until they have been completed and got working.
I agree on this, and that's why I am always asking people to report issues, compatibility problems, regressions and any software package that won't work as expected. I generally remove them from the distribution until a fix has come. But while this happily happened in the past, today I don't receive feedback anymore and problems live unnoticed up to the following releases.
If you have Amiga Forever, they have AROS as a prebuild image ready to go. Double click and it launches directly into Wanderer (Workbench).
Probably a little easier for most people, rather than trying the x86 build booting from a live CD and hoping it works with your bare metal hardware, or if you lack the actual Amiga to try it on.
People boot the live cd in a virtual machine on their x86. They do not boot it and hope it will work.
@@bbuggediffy Dan literally didn't do what you said in his video. He even mentioned using Amgia Forever to copy it over.
It's almost like you've not even bothered to watch the video before jumping on my comment. Do you even Amiga Bro?
@@dataterminal I'm a bit doubtful Dan actually booted it on bare metal, because there was a VMWare VMSVGA driver popup during the install. I'm not sure if that'd pop up on real hardware, maybe Dan can clarify.
Powerpc is still around in the form of the power architecture, you can get a some parts for building a power9 developer workstation desktop from raptor computing, plus the power architecture, the same architecture behind the older powerpc processors is open-source now. The latest version of the power isa, is v3.0 the same version behind the newer IBM power10 server processors!
I still call directories "drawers".
I use a Toshiba P105-S6197 Laptop with 4 GIG Memory and a 120G HDD. I have FS-UAE Linux usb boot, installed on the HDD so when I turn on the Laptop it boots straight to an Amiga 500 with WB 1.3 : I can add ADF disk to the folder to boot games or workbench etc by using a windows bootable USB drive to edit the Linux HDD files. You can edit the Config file to boot any Amiga you want, 500 - 4000. I also use FS-UAE to configure new systems and test them, then just copy the new system config file to the laptop and set the system config file to boot the new system.
I wish I could have an Amiga style desktop on my PC instead of the boring standard Windows one.
Shout out to Jon Potter, author of Directory Opus, mentioned in the video! Cheers from Kiwi (Nexus)!
Thanks Dan, this looks great. My reservation about using AROS beyond playing is security based. Linux has the benefit of thousands of engineers working on it and apps.
But AROS has the advantage that not a single hacker would bother with it. Security through obscurity.
@@Francois_L_7933 security thru obscurity is a horrible fallacy. It only takes one. Anyone decides to take advantage you have no protection at all.
@@bzuidgeest That's quite true. I wouldn't trust it with my banking info that's for sure. But I don't think anybody would really take advantage of a system that is used on a few thousands of computers worldwide when there is a gazillion Windows PC's that are often very poorly maintained that could be accessed.
13:17 *"Drawers" :D
Argh, brain fart lol
It’s a great project but think UAE for 68k is a bit of a jump in the wrong direction. It rather mimics the way 68k Mac apps ran on OSX. A complete os running in the background. OSX flipped over to running powerpc applications on OSX intel with then at the mercy of the OS with an application running mixed PowerPC for the application with API calls going to intel. Bet very few 68k apps are well enough behaved to live in that world.
This true, AmigaOS programs depends on hardware they run on for sound its Paula chipset, for timing it’s the CIAA/CIAB chips, and for graphics its Denice, taking out this chip means the games do not know what to do. Also, API has changed over the years. Some programs will only work on a particular kickstart version.
Looks great a lot better than windows 11 for sure i wish something like this was a mainstream os the only thing i don't like is the sketchy mascot.
No it doesn't the hell you talking about. It looks like a linux distro from 2005.
That's Amiga, a computer of the 80s which had to live with hardware boundaries of the time, and in many ways it won on them. But time has lasted and yes, AROS looks really old for todays standards. We even lack of hardware acceleration for the desktop operations, which is something that became quite common only 15 years ago. But now we are in 2022.
Heck, I'm a new prospective user and I'm interested. I think this may be the time I finally buy a PowerPC based Mac Mini. I'll start trying it on my iBook G4 first though.
Love this! I've totally missed that this exists ^^ you seem know a thing or two so maby you know if there are any program out to "filter ' a modern song too an modul-song and automatic scale the voice away, stripping it, if you know what I mean. Regards
But what makes it an Amiga? Does it run classic Amiga software natively? Or is it just an alternative OS with Amiga badges?
There really needs to be an online portal where you can get real time help. My biggest complaint with Amiga 3.2.1 was the back and forth between forum and PC became too tedious for people like me trying to get back into the old machine. Also, I notice that the real machine experience isn't as good as the emulated PC experience.
I think if I were to set up a computer I'd love to get a more modern computer up and running, get some nice looking badges for the case then find out if I could get a modern keyboard with custom keycaps. Somehow using a keyboard with windows layout and keycaps would takeaway from the look.
The virtualization aspect is really promising, suggesting one day Windows would run in Linux (SEAMLESSLY, I know about the partial implementations) and perhaps Windows (SEAMLESSLY) running in Icaros. This would encourage oeople to migrate over.
What do you mean by "Partial"? We have a load of options and they all do it differently.
IMO, you can already do this perfectly seamless with Qubes, rDesktop (namely it's SeamlessRDP package), Virtualbox on Linux has a "seamless" mode, but that requires the official repo package provided by Oracle (not Canonical's "Ubuntu edition" check your package name, if it ends in "_Ubuntu" you've got Canonical's oddball version), and WINE can too if you stretch the meaning of "virtual" a bit.
I might have my SEVERE gripes with Linux as a workstation environment... but even I can't deny how well it integrates with other OSes.
@@KiraSlith It will go mainstream once it's a reality.
@@qus123 WSL is the opposite of what I am talking about.
@@qus123 I should have explained that I am interested in migration to a Amiga like UI for Linux at the click of a button. A simple Amiga-like UI which would make it easier to adopt a Linux environment. I've experimented with a few Linux distros and this would be one of that last obstacles to solve IMO.
@@timetorelaxfocus9642 Depends on your definition of "click of a button" but there already exists AmiWM, which is a Linux window manager modeled after the Amiga's
Can you run DPaint IV AGA and Wordworth 7 on this system?
I just got into raspberry pis, and I wish I could use this on one of them
Does the Amiga have a future? Well not like what we're used with PC's. But there are still people out there programming games, music, applications and demos, especially on Next Gen Amigas to show the community and world how awesome it is to programm something new in retrostyle.
AROS is key for this. Anyone can use this OS without the neverending license shizzle.
No, its legacy OS for a nostalgic trip, it is slowly improving but its hacker OS, not something you want to use, if you want security, its also not OS you can trust to not crash on you.
@@kjetilhvalstrand1009 hmm well the original Amiga OS wasn't quite secure either.
@@mheijink That’s what happens when you try to copy everything.
How does dev applications run like AMOS and aztec C++ or how do you build aros compatible windows programs?
Does AROS or any other AmigaOS option offer a built-in file-sharing feature, for sharing between AmigaOS set-ups and/or sharing with Win/Mac environments?
What about a screen-sharing feature?
If they can clean up the UI and get the major apps bug free, this could be a handy option next to Linux if MS continues to turn Windows 11 into a total cash-grab-and-user-control dystopia.
That will never happen
There fundamental design decisions in AmigaOS API compared to UNIX API, that result in less secure OS, stack and IPC are the main problem areas. If AmigaOS was adapted more UNIX like approach to stack, the source code wont run anymore.
Q: Hang on a minute... you say one of those operating systems, something you're calling "Morph" (...did I hear that right?) is locked into PowerPC architecture, and that's a problem. Wasn't that derived from ARM / RISC architecture, which we now see in the Raspberry Pi and all portable computers (including phones). Also, the Apple Silicon chip is also said to be something of a return to 'PowerPC'-type architecture - which ought to be ARM-based, or related. Doesn't that mean that all the efforts to port to Intel architectures is also going to fall behind-the-times, all over again? Let us hope not. This looks interesting. I might try it.
ARM and PowerPC are different architectures, ARM instructions come in 16bit and 32bit, the 32bit version looks a lot like PowerPC instructions, true. ARM sadly is not well supported on laptops, desktop, and workstations, the cost of making new hardware does come from instruction set, but instead from tiny market that’s targeted.
How well does it run on laptops?
Only if you are carful about what model you pick. The hardware support sucks.
Dan, do you have a "working" link to the latest AROS Vision for the Amiga? All the links i've found are dead.
So what about the other aspect to this? What new OSes can you run on an old Amiga?
Unless they sort out the browsing aspect and compatibility with youtube etc then this os will never gain traction..i love the amiga btw.
Have wanted AROS to be the future of the kernel since 1996.. it's been very slow going, as there are a lot more eager hardware than software hackers.
Sadly, there are not lot of hardware hackers writing drivers. From what I read in forums the so called hardware experts are more interested in arguing over OCS and AGA in the forums, they are not interested in PC hardware. No software works without drivers, unless you want to be forever be stuck with legacy hardware.
The problem with these things, besides just having some fun messing around, what is the point using it? What is the use case that a Win 10 can't do, and can do infinitely better. Unless it brings more to the table than just "nostalgia" it has no chance to gain any form of real traction.
Why keep pianos alive when synthesizers can do everything they can and more?
Thanks Dan, Keep up the Good Work. Amiga Nut 🙂
Great video my friend.
if this is effectively a perfect "open source cross platform amiga" then why hasn't it been embraced ?
nobody knows about it
Well there have been plenty of things that were technically better that have failed. I think much of it has to do with marketing, but we're talking hobbyist here, who often times like to use real Amiga hardware and not a PC that would normally have Windows on it.
Probably because most Amiga users say it it isn't "a real Amiga".
@@TemalCageman I didn't know about any of this stuff. I just thought Amiga was dead and moved on.
Most Amigans are picky, they want "the name"
finally, new Amiga videos
what is the point of this os ?
I MEAN what can we do with this os and pc's except from playing Amiga Games ?
I guess the point is recompiling AmigaOS programs for faster hardware, sadly AROS fails because its not 100% source code compatible, and you can’t build 680x0 assembler on x86 machine, you need to first port it to C/C++ code. And even if you did that, it wont work, as you need the Amiga custom chips to make old software work.
Hello can you help Me I'm Having an issue with my (PiStorm32Lite) for my Amiga 1200. I followed all the directions according to the PiStorm Wiki. for some reason every time I boot my Amiga I get a Blank workbench screen and a message in the top left hand corner of the Screen that says " you must insert a Volume Containing LIBS/icon.library in any drive" Now I've tried looking up this issue and I've got lost can you help me Please.
Does it work with a MIDI interface? Can I run MIDI-based software like Deluxe Music?
have you tried WB1.3/2.0 games as well?
There is no future for Amiga. Hyperion has held a pillow over its face for the last 15 years and the last of its life has now been snuffed out. They should've ported to the Raspberry Pi as soon as it was released. But that would make too much sense.
Any advantages over other mainstream OSs? Maybe, time to move on and investing in emulations better (e.g. open source roms)
NO, AROS has all problems of old AmigaOS, except it has a GUI that’s not even source code compatible with AmigaOS.
I am not so interested in a Linux based Amiga OS that can run on a PC. I think having dedicated Amiga hardware is what keeps it fun for me. Still, AROS might be the only hope for the future of Amiga and I wish it well. It was an interesting video, thanks Dan :)
I think you're confused between hardware and software, unless it was a typo.
It's not Linux based it. It's a open source remake of Amiga os for x86 PCs
Any links that have faster download speeds for the full 2.3.0?
I want to play my Amiga my fave games.
Interesting, but I will stick with Pimiga.
Would this run on a AMD A10-7800k (Kaveri) or is this a non starter.
I don’t get it: I love Amiga, my favourite computer, spent 7 wondrful years from 87 to 94, from 12 to 19 yo: if anything I want to relive that experience, proper retrocomputing. I don’t understand what shoudl I do with a new system. I have both Windows 11 and Apple OS, don’t need another one.
Amiga was ahead of Mac and PC for years. It's a shame it wasn't better supported and developed. It was 10+ years until MS produced anything comparable for the mainstream until the late 90's.
@@toby9999 you're right - but it's all over! It was almost half a century ago!
Mostly I think it's a programmer hobby. But also, imagine you can install this new Amiga-like OS on your computer or in a VM and be able to run all the old retro apps and games, workbench, etc on it without messing with licenses for ROMs and whatnot. A pure open source Amiga experience that works out of the box. That would be pretty nice.
My only question is does it run more modern programs? Like open office or modern games?
I've wondered how readily LibreOffice could be ported. Besides not knowing enough programming to even consider trying it myself, I also wonder if working on a different OS could be considered a conflict of interest (I work for a Linux company).
For me Amiga is sally nostalgia only with that said, I will get a fpga amiga soon, I am sure Aros is a nice OS, I would like to see some of the mod players poerted to linux though.
Burn a cd, what is this, 1995? :D try mounting an iso and "boot" of that? If not i guess there is still some work to do on the installer and whatnot hehe.
What is the best word processor for Amiga?
I like Wordworth 7
Can you run ImageFX and DCTV?
How about invidious?
Excellent video, but not my bag for that OS ;)
When installing onto a PC with Windows 10 already installed will it set up a dual boot like Linux does?
It wont boot, you are unlikely to have the AROS drivers for any random computer. you need carefully pick a computer that has the parts that’s supported.
If you get installed, you won’t have lot of native software, AROS x86 is not popular platform, no binary backwards support. You need to use UAE on top of it, to run old software.
How can I amiga again in current year? I want to stunt car racer again with gooder refresh speed and less disk grrrping. Thanks!
A500 mini?
coincidently there's a remake of Stunt Car Racer on AROS with those things.
@@beezle1976 awesome! Thanks! Um... what is an AROS?
I really like MorphOS but i accidentally damaged my Ibook G4 1.42GHz trying to install a SSD and broke the power switch wire....... Anyone here fix it for me?
MorphOS makes AmigaOS 4 moot. It can run on Apple PowerPC hardware, which is available at low prices, making the barrier to entry lower.
Old hardware comes with older PCIe, older DDR memory standards, slower Sata, and older graphic chipsets, this means no 3D, no hardware acceleration for video etc, pick your hardware carefully if you want OS that can do things.
aros kitty rule 34.... oops, i didn't mean to type this here...
all it needs is any easy to use development compiler to build software
Microsoft didn't build everything by themselves but they did make life for the amateur developers to easily create something
if that was achieved well on amiga OS, i think it will do well
Amiga OS is so underated but the information available for development is very unorganized and scattered
There is only ONE crucial question for any operating system: does it have an up-to-date browser? Yes - you got a chance. No - you are doomed.
Very true! I still love the Amiga experience on my real machines, which are "next gen PPC amigas" (Sam460 and AOne X5000) and my emulated system in WinUAE... but as you say, a modern up to date browser is the key to success in these days.
@@TemalCageman Is there no way to get a Firefox version pushed? I work with some very good dev teams in India and Nepal. If we get enough funds, a port should surely be possible?
"Also... as well"? Oops! They mean the same thing. Just use one or the other in the same phrase.
If your really smart Amiga OS under Ubuntu linux.
It needs the compatibility with all the classic software, this is why everyone gets annoyed with Hyperion/cloanto
Amiga Forever NEEDS TO UPDATE the create CD linux used in it. I have never gotten one to boot on a system. It's too outdated the Linux FS-UAE boots and runs great. IDK about the newer Amiga OS's too much like MAC or WINDOWS I like the old WB 1.3 or 2.0 Make software for them. Otherwise AMIGA OS just becomes another Windows or MAC or LINUX version......
I love the Amiga and would fiercely defend its place in home computer history against the Atari ST or the 286-era PC. However, the key word here is "history". Arguing about its future is like arguing about a future for Queen Victoria within the monarchy. If you want your PC to run Amiga software, or buy a new machine with ancient specs to perform like your childhood computer, that's your choice- but its day is sadly long over. The collapse of Commodore and the advent of Windows 95 were the end for it.
the problem as i see it, is that if AROS and the likes cant manage "proper" web browsing at the very least then everything else is pretty but kinda pointless, the classic systems can do pretty much everything shown here already and if you are using an emulated system via say WinUAE or AmiBerry, you can get the browser support by simply running "WINLAUNCH FIREFOX" and you have instantly bridged that magic software gap.
Until AROS can do what classic or classic emulated cant (which is primarily web access) then its kinda just an interesting alternative, but far from a replacement, the addition of more modern word processor and spreadsheet was a nice addition however, thats another shortcoming of classic.
you are a bit late to the party but I approve
I solely clicked for the sexualized cat mascot
Yo, same.
Why not make it to run on raspberry pi?
It does run on Raspberry Pi, as well as on x86, 68000 and PowerPC.
I always say best Future world be a ARM version. Just think a .Mac m1 Mini is about 500€ and you got complete new (no Intel) tech that is fast as a hightec PC with Custom chips. Cheap Hardware then just a setup for Amiga OS. The best you do not have only amiga hardware you can boot macos and have a modern mac with all functions. This is the only Future i see for amiga. A custom amiga hardware like a5000 is to expensive for a normal dude and cant Open youtube (so no young Person will buy). Apple mac m1 mini is so cheap for the hardware
Heh, I come here specifically wondering if anyone watching this channel knows who Eric Schwartz is.
Yeah, I recognized that art style, plus it's Amiga so it makes sense he'd be involved. ^_^
@@TyphinHoofbun
I meant outside of his Amiga involvement. Heheheh.
@@HaveYouTriedGuillotines Oh, I'm not involved in Amiga stuff, I'm just an old furry fan. ^.^;;
@@TyphinHoofbun
That is in fact what I was getting at. :D
So… PPC is dead - ARM is the future.
I’m holding out for an Amithlon/Draco like system using a Rasberry pi and Emu68 and bare metal drivers that retarget the Amiga custom chips to the PI hardware and allows for ARM compiled software to access AmigaOS APIs and run seamlessly inside workbench etc.
Then, with an officially licenced ROM we can run 3.x AmigaOS - or - we can go the AROS route… that way we stay clear of all the political guff and legal shenanigans.
Then, in time, more of the OS itself can be ported to ARM - and byte by byte we end up with an NG architecture 😁
And then, with market share and awareness through the pi - we launch more powerful ARM hardware… 😁
Glad to see that AROS has come along a long way since I last used it.
Oddly I think a console would have been better. Why? Because consoles have a uniformity in their hardware design that would make any software port easier, and the user experience more uniform.
@@brodriguez11000 the original Amiga began as a console - and ended up becoming a computer. The Pi is uniform hardware… they’ve also sold in the millions.
PowerPC has no replacement, that’s the problem, ARM is not a desktop CPU yet. While PowerPC and ARM is similar can do the same job. AMD/X86 is completely different CPU.