@@wusstunes it's both her drift after it and her weirdly shifted hurtbox that make it way, way harder to punish than e.g. a spacie airdodge. I didn't know why exactly that was up until a few weeks ago!
Z-axis is an important mechanic many characters use to avoid otherwise bad situations. It comes up quite alot in labbing out neutral. Its how several characters work around puff bair spam. Why on earth would we want puff hitting more rests and bairs? Hell no lol
This is really cool. I didn't realize how many other things were affected by the z axis. I think most of the counter play things, especially with Yoshi, are negligible. Utilt doesn't come out till frame 8, and if Fox jump cancels shine on frame 4, they will be out of range. And with that sort of timing to start utilt on the exact frame of your opponents shine, you have a more forgiving window to parry. Same with dtilt on grab. I think the z axis is one of the elements that makes melee a beautiful accident. Like what you alluded to at the end. I very much enjoy your perspective!
@@quailman4545 if fox jumps out of shine frame 4 (which they won't because they need to wait to account for potential hitlag), he enters the air on frame 7. I don't think he makes it far enough in the air to avoid yoshi uptilt the frame after. But you're right, it's a niche situation that can't be played for super realistically most of the time.
could there be a situation (maybe on ledge or platform) where fox's hitbox on frame 7 of dtilt is able to hit airdodging peach? or does fox's dtilt always go away from the camera
If it's the case that Fox's dtilt hitbox comes out on frame 7 but almost always hits on frame 8 (that is to say it's basically impossible to hit on frame 7 due to z axis shenanigans), I think that should be represented in the frame data. But I'm no PTAS.
I'm loving the content, I would suggest maybe adding a little structure and being a little more concise to make things more digestable. I understand that that means more editing on your part and if you're not up for that that's understandable. I just think your video's could benefit from it. It's great nonetheless, keep it up.
@@Shmover34 i have about 10 videos fully scripted but if I have to sit down and individually edit all of them i'd never release them. I will write down a structure and what points I want to touch on in the future in order to make things more concise without having the extra effort of editing for 3 hours.
neat to think abt but I like my melee raw and normal. The anti-wobbling mod is okay, but that I can accept as patching out an infinite- but ye. Add clothes and features, but keep the gameplay core.
If BKC and Nicki can both get on a weekday upload schedule my productivity will reach unforeseen heights. Great video, I listened to like 96% of it (actual calculated estimate) audio only but I could envision it all lmao. Z-axis is kinda epic it's just not that epic in ways I particularly love lol. Like many things in Melee I think it's cool and very wonky. It would probably be a "better" game IMO if everything were flattened out, but changing these sorts of things is quite frightening to me because of that slope over there that looks awfully slippery.
@@AndrewRKenny I try my best to make the videos listenable for people who can't look at them all the way because that is how I listen to BKC videos myself. Thanks for the response!
Yo what if there was just a universal fixed code in slippi and u try it out just in like an online bracket. If people like it a lot they could start bringing it to locals to try also
Because I need more time to think about that one and wanted to get a video out this weekend :) These polls are not legally binding, I just wanted to gauge interest in the various topics. I will set up polls where I will make a video on whatever is the #1 vote first in the future!
@@SSBMNicki it's such a cool magic trick, if you play it in 0.25x it's obvious but in normal speed, especially with the wavedashes before, it's a sight to behold
The random jokes that you seemingly just think of on the spot and can't help yourself from saying keep making me laugh
I used the 3rd dimension to my advantage in battle.
*3rd gen
Always felt like Peach airdodge was better than people said it was. That's cool.
@@wusstunes it's both her drift after it and her weirdly shifted hurtbox that make it way, way harder to punish than e.g. a spacie airdodge. I didn't know why exactly that was up until a few weeks ago!
IDK why this is even a topic thats taken serioisly by people to actually impliment, this is a bigger change to the game than ucf by miles.
it isnt
(being taken seriously i mean)
Z-axis is an important mechanic many characters use to avoid otherwise bad situations. It comes up quite alot in labbing out neutral. Its how several characters work around puff bair spam. Why on earth would we want puff hitting more rests and bairs? Hell no lol
Nicki! The hits just keep coming man!
I assume. I haven't watched this yet... but you are on a tear with great content recently
melee has evolved so much that we need to transcend to the third dimension to analyze the game
This is really cool. I didn't realize how many other things were affected by the z axis. I think most of the counter play things, especially with Yoshi, are negligible. Utilt doesn't come out till frame 8, and if Fox jump cancels shine on frame 4, they will be out of range. And with that sort of timing to start utilt on the exact frame of your opponents shine, you have a more forgiving window to parry. Same with dtilt on grab.
I think the z axis is one of the elements that makes melee a beautiful accident. Like what you alluded to at the end.
I very much enjoy your perspective!
@@quailman4545 if fox jumps out of shine frame 4 (which they won't because they need to wait to account for potential hitlag), he enters the air on frame 7. I don't think he makes it far enough in the air to avoid yoshi uptilt the frame after. But you're right, it's a niche situation that can't be played for super realistically most of the time.
Can't believe I'm still learning new interactions in this game. Melee is sick. Also keep up the amazing job Nicki!
I think the yoshi grab missing some characters is intentional, thats an understood part of creating a 2.5 D game
could there be a situation (maybe on ledge or platform) where fox's hitbox on frame 7 of dtilt is able to hit airdodging peach? or does fox's dtilt always go away from the camera
If it's the case that Fox's dtilt hitbox comes out on frame 7 but almost always hits on frame 8 (that is to say it's basically impossible to hit on frame 7 due to z axis shenanigans), I think that should be represented in the frame data.
But I'm no PTAS.
Oooh. Good question!
that marth peach example blew my mind
I'm loving the content, I would suggest maybe adding a little structure and being a little more concise to make things more digestable. I understand that that means more editing on your part and if you're not up for that that's understandable. I just think your video's could benefit from it. It's great nonetheless, keep it up.
@@Shmover34 i have about 10 videos fully scripted but if I have to sit down and individually edit all of them i'd never release them. I will write down a structure and what points I want to touch on in the future in order to make things more concise without having the extra effort of editing for 3 hours.
Counterpoint I think he should take bathroom breaks with no edits and recommend a movie when he comes back.
@@AndrewRKenny I really should talk about ryan gosling more.
@@SSBMNickiGosh he's just so talented!
neat to think abt but I like my melee raw and normal. The anti-wobbling mod is okay, but that I can accept as patching out an infinite- but ye. Add clothes and features, but keep the gameplay core.
I think most of the counterplay is cool but Yoshi grab should be fixed. Same as gnws broken mechanics and luigi dash attack
nah
@@krowpan799 bruh
gnw does not need a buff
@@ssbVanilla he deserves to at least function as intended, not saying he should be OP like ult
Just play P+ if all these problems need fixing.
I mean interpolation always helps because it’s covers all the space between the two frames
Jimothy type thumbnail
@@TheRoguay had to do at least one speech bubble thumbnail after being on the fridge podcast.
This reference is insane
As a puff player this scares me as its my only enemy that can out space bairs and crouch rest ocasionally dosent work 😭😭😭
He got Z-Axised! He mad!
Content machine. Another very interesting video
justice for yoshi
Learned a lot from this video😅poor yoshi
This is why Flatzone should be legal
it's dumb that puff can crouch marths grab XD, I'm glad that guy threw a crab at hbox
I am down to try PAL. If it was an option in slippi I would
… I didn’t even know dk had a hit box in front of his up b
Can Fox dtilt hit Nana frame 7? Or is it too far back?
Jim Cool inspired thumbnail
Awesome video
If BKC and Nicki can both get on a weekday upload schedule my productivity will reach unforeseen heights.
Great video, I listened to like 96% of it (actual calculated estimate) audio only but I could envision it all lmao.
Z-axis is kinda epic it's just not that epic in ways I particularly love lol. Like many things in Melee I think it's cool and very wonky. It would probably be a "better" game IMO if everything were flattened out, but changing these sorts of things is quite frightening to me because of that slope over there that looks awfully slippery.
@@AndrewRKenny I try my best to make the videos listenable for people who can't look at them all the way because that is how I listen to BKC videos myself. Thanks for the response!
to all the scrubs in the chatter here.
this stuff will not make you better at melee.
Yo what if there was just a universal fixed code in slippi and u try it out just in like an online bracket. If people like it a lot they could start bringing it to locals to try also
Not the option I voted for, but surprisingly interesting so far
So what you're saying is we should legalize Flat Zone
I feel like yoshi is so guilty of this. I hate that character
OK I'm further in the video I'm glad you mentioned yoshi lol
Why is this being posted before the what would we change about melee if Nintendo wasn’t watching? That is higher on the poll
Because I need more time to think about that one and wanted to get a video out this weekend :) These polls are not legally binding, I just wanted to gauge interest in the various topics. I will set up polls where I will make a video on whatever is the #1 vote first in the future!
Maybe mind your own damn business? I'm for one am happy this was released first instead.
@@SSBMNicki Maybe a poll about how you, on your channel, should interpret polls on your channel. Lol
@@snared_ geez dude it was just a question
@@SSBMNicki Alr cool 👍
ur vids r really good love the way u think abt the game
Algorithm boosting comment
Free yoshi tongue
Legalize flatzone. We've been omitting part of the game: walk offs
19:53 what the fuck
I had no idea what happened and how I got there but I had to suppress my freakout
@@SSBMNicki it's such a cool magic trick, if you play it in 0.25x it's obvious but in normal speed, especially with the wavedashes before, it's a sight to behold