I have both the car816 and car814. Very happy with both. The "over the beach" feature is something that is extremely rare outside the military. Small Arms Solutions has an excellent breakdown video on these firearms.
It wasn’t meant as a knock. I love my sig 516. It’s the one with four gas settings. I’ll pick that over my lwrc m6ic. That’s why I still own it after all these years. I would think it’s the engineers are the ones who got sig in hot water over the bolt carrier looking like the lwrc units. They designed it!!😂
Didn’t take it as one. There were some comments I deleted that implied and directly accused Caracal of stealing Sigs and/or HK design and further said that it was essentially a cheap knockoff. You know how YT comments get. But it was a topic worth addressing head on and interesting to know for all of us.
I’m not even sure how to answer that. You remember Sig 516 uppers being on sale for $499, when exactly? Pre-Covid? I remember when gas was .89 and 9mm ammo was .15 a round and that was just a few years ago. I’m not sure what relevance prices of yesteryears have today given everything has went up significantly. I just checked gunbroker and the only SIG516 I found was a used one for $1900. So if you can find an upper for $499, my advice is buy as many as you can. The 816’s are an improved design over the 516. Brand recognition means nothing when in comes to actual value. The price is the price. Either it’s worth it to you or it’s not. When they come in we’ll do a full, hard use review of them and we’ll have more detailed info on it. Thanks, Gary
They have an M4 contour barrels. I believe they are hammer forged and don’t believe they are chrome lined if that’s what you meant by “cl”. I’ll have more in depth information in upcoming reviews and cover all specs and components so stay tuned. Thanks, Gary
Ehh.. I think CL barrels are overhyped. I have dozens of ARs and not one is CL and have never had an issue. All of barrels are stainless or or nitride. I also believe that CL barrels aren’t as accurate. Clean them once in a while and there is absolutely zero difference. It’s a perception thing people have been sold but I haven’t seen any significant or real world testing that makes that perception a fact. If you know of any, let me know but I think it’s gobbley gook without real data that’s been said so many times that people take it as gospel. 🤷♂️ Here’s an interesting article on the topic. faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/#:~:text=Nitride%20is%20significantly%20less%20expensive,chroming%20and%20the%20phosphate%20processes.
@@paramounttactical Go talk to Battlefield Vegas about barrel life of CL vs Nitride. Also most militaries soec CL barrels because they last longer under high round counts. Accuracy needs are I subjected as to mission requirements. Most CL ARs exceed most govermrnts moa requirements. Obviously a match grade ss bbl should outperform a CL issue barrel. Nitride bbl treatment is not better or even a equivalent to CL bbls it does cost less and most hobby gun buyers don’t know the actual differences.
@@jim99west46 I don’t need to talk to anyone. I just changed out a nitride AR barrel last year that had 35-40K rounds. If anything is subjective it’d be barrel life. 99% of all AR owners are never going to out shoot the life of a barrel but accuracy is never subjective. It’s always useful. There’s a ton of variables that determine both barrel life and accuracy/precision. There will be CL barrels that outlast and outperform nitride and vice versa. BuT you can’t sit here and pretend that if I handed you an AR with a nitride barrel and told you it was CL that you’d ever detect a perceptible difference. There’s a case for cl barrels for full auto but if that’s not you then it’s irrelevant.
@@jim99west46 oh FFS, lmao, I was as professional as it gets and it doesn’t matter. It’s laughable that you sit there and pretend you’d be able to tell a difference. In your “professional” shooting, are you regularly dumping mags on full auto? No, you’re not because even as a Green Beret, in 4 combat tours, I rarely used burst or full auto on an M4 and never sustained levels of full auto fire. Because that would be stupid. That’s what belt feds are for. So just stop. You sound silly. Pure pretense.
New buzz words for 2024..... "Over the Beach" and something catchy for barrel obstruction tests. What company will cash in first by adding these features to their barrels?
Lmao… you understand that those are well defined SOCOM testing requirements that have been in use for a long time? I guess if you hear something for the first time it may sound like a catchy buzzword.🤷♂️ But we’re hear to educate… www.hkpro.com/threads/over-the-beach-otb-faq.167716/ There you go. Please note that the article is from 2007.
Lol, it's news to me! I kinda figured that if I'm hearing about it now, then its probably been several years since the military started doing it. I've never heard a barrel manufacturer mention it. Manufacturing barrels to these standards is something many companies would consider advantageous. No doubt if they were already doing it, they'd have told everybody. Might be a good opportunity, or not.
@@billybob6784 otb has no set definition. ADM and Griffin offer OTB recoil spring tubes. Crane drills there own for the Navy. Only manufacturer that has advertised OTB capability is Steyr for their AUG. French company St. Etienne claimed that their 3 groove barrels in their Fanas carbines prevented capillary action wich was a problem with M16s in Viet Nam.
@@jim99west46Thanks for taking time to provide all the info, it's much appreciated. Do you know the parameters that determine whether gun is otb capable or not, or where I could find that info? Thanks again
@@billybob6784 i only know this. On Pistols Glock offers maritime cups see google for info. Griffin Armament offers a OTB receiver extension with 7 holes in it. The Famas and AUG needed nothing to be submerged and then brought up firing. Glock offers maritime cups so the firing pin will actually strike hard enough after being submerged. As far as I know there is no publicly known DOD, Crane, Socom whatever design specs for OTB. We were taught to clear our rifles after being submerged. Augs and Famas no need to. Fwiw the civilian Glock 19X has the maritime cups installed at the factory.
@@paramounttactical I first heard about Caracal from Chris at Small Arms Solutions. Chris loves them, and I value Chris' opinion, so please don't get me wrong. They sound great. However, you left out a couple of big issues with external pistons: (1) More noticeable recoil impulse, and issues with that recoil (carrier tilt can be an issue whereas the DI is straight back as Stoner designed it); (2) Typically heavier due to the increased number of operating system parts; (3) That increased weight is in the front end of the gun so carrying it or using it for sustained lengths of time is uncomfortable; (4) Piston systems aren't technically cleaner, they are just dirty in a different area (near the gas port/piston/tappet area instead of the bolt/chamber area); and most importantly and why I never would buy a piston system (5) You are married to that company - for better or worse. If my LMT DI goes down, I can order parts from a hundred different websites and get it running in less than a week. In terms of cleaning, I pop the two bolts on the CQB upper, pull the barrel, and I can clean the BCG and chamber without issue. But if you go piston, last I heard they are all proprietary. Can you take the operating system from an LWRC and make that Caracal work if it goes down? Ehhh...maybe if you are MacGyver. Otherwise, you are waiting for a company that doesn't have a large market share in the U.S. to send replacement parts. And how is their customer service when it comes to that? I know an organization that jumped on the HK416D bandwagon and they have been waiting over a year for replacement parts when a couple of those went down. If the 816 floats your boat, sail on. I will look at their 814.
I have both the car816 and car814. Very happy with both. The "over the beach" feature is something that is extremely rare outside the military. Small Arms Solutions has an excellent breakdown video on these firearms.
Have the 816 upper on a build I did. It turned out nice. Caracal offers one hell of a military discount.
What percentage off?
@@Peterkass235 about 42%
I'll be adding a couple Caracals to my collection... the 816 and the CMP9K with the 6in barrel for sure.
The biggest hope I had was that the piston assembly was the same as the 516 since spare parts are non existent from Sig. it looks so damn close.
It wasn’t meant as a knock. I love my sig 516. It’s the one with four gas settings. I’ll pick that over my lwrc m6ic. That’s why I still own it after all these years. I would think it’s the engineers are the ones who got sig in hot water over the bolt carrier looking like the lwrc units. They designed it!!😂
Didn’t take it as one. There were some comments I deleted that implied and directly accused Caracal of stealing Sigs and/or HK design and further said that it was essentially a cheap knockoff. You know how YT comments get. But it was a topic worth addressing head on and interesting to know for all of us.
I remember Sig 516 uppers being on sale for 499...why are these uppers still 1200 with less brand recognition and nitride only barrels
I’m not even sure how to answer that. You remember Sig 516 uppers being on sale for $499, when exactly? Pre-Covid? I remember when gas was .89 and 9mm ammo was .15 a round and that was just a few years ago.
I’m not sure what relevance prices of yesteryears have today given everything has went up significantly. I just checked gunbroker and the only SIG516 I found was a used one for $1900. So if you can find an upper for $499, my advice is buy as many as you can.
The 816’s are an improved design over the 516. Brand recognition means nothing when in comes to actual value.
The price is the price. Either it’s worth it to you or it’s not.
When they come in we’ll do a full, hard use review of them and we’ll have more detailed info on it.
Thanks,
Gary
@@paramounttacticalremember when a 99 civic was like $3,000 used.
Good times
😂
What about barrel profile and since making them here, are barrels cl?
They have an M4 contour barrels. I believe they are hammer forged and don’t believe they are chrome lined if that’s what you meant by “cl”.
I’ll have more in depth information in upcoming reviews and cover all specs and components so stay tuned.
Thanks,
Gary
Thanks! Look forward to the review...
1:36 Is that Ray Helm creeping through like a creeper?
🙄 Of course it is. He was wondering around every time I was filming in the background looking like a lost Joe Biden. 😂
@@paramounttactical 13 miles of state-of-the-art shooting gadgets to play with, but he would rather troll you. What a bro!
@@hulley5223 😂 it’s true. 🤷♂️
Great interview.
I wish they has CL barrels. Nitride is not as good for heat or corrosion resistance.
Ehh.. I think CL barrels are overhyped. I have dozens of ARs and not one is CL and have never had an issue. All of barrels are stainless or or nitride. I also believe that CL barrels aren’t as accurate. Clean them once in a while and there is absolutely zero difference. It’s a perception thing people have been sold but I haven’t seen any significant or real world testing that makes that perception a fact. If you know of any, let me know but I think it’s gobbley gook without real data that’s been said so many times that people take it as gospel. 🤷♂️
Here’s an interesting article on the topic.
faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequenty-asked-questions-nitride-vs-chrome-lined/#:~:text=Nitride%20is%20significantly%20less%20expensive,chroming%20and%20the%20phosphate%20processes.
@@paramounttactical Go talk to Battlefield Vegas about barrel life of CL vs Nitride. Also most militaries soec CL barrels because they last longer under high round counts. Accuracy needs are I subjected as to mission requirements. Most CL ARs exceed most govermrnts moa requirements. Obviously a match grade ss bbl should outperform a CL issue barrel.
Nitride bbl treatment is not better or even a equivalent to CL bbls it does cost less and most hobby gun buyers don’t know the actual differences.
@@jim99west46 I don’t need to talk to anyone. I just changed out a nitride AR barrel last year that had 35-40K rounds. If anything is subjective it’d be barrel life. 99% of all AR owners are never going to out shoot the life of a barrel but accuracy is never subjective. It’s always useful. There’s a ton of variables that determine both barrel life and accuracy/precision. There will be CL barrels that outlast and outperform nitride and vice versa. BuT you can’t sit here and pretend that if I handed you an AR with a nitride barrel and told you it was CL that you’d ever detect a perceptible difference. There’s a case for cl barrels for full auto but if that’s not you then it’s irrelevant.
For hobbyist shooters it doesn’t matter. For professional use it does.
@@jim99west46 oh FFS, lmao, I was as professional as it gets and it doesn’t matter. It’s laughable that you sit there and pretend you’d be able to tell a difference. In your “professional” shooting, are you regularly dumping mags on full auto? No, you’re not because even as a Green Beret, in 4 combat tours, I rarely used burst or full auto on an M4 and never sustained levels of full auto fire. Because that would be stupid. That’s what belt feds are for. So just stop. You sound silly.
Pure pretense.
Lol..not a clone we drilled another drain hole hahaha ...joke ...come on man..just say yeah its a better gun at cheaper cost
New buzz words for 2024..... "Over the Beach" and something catchy for barrel obstruction tests.
What company will cash in first by adding these features to their barrels?
Lmao… you understand that those are well defined SOCOM testing requirements that have been in use for a long time? I guess if you hear something for the first time it may sound like a catchy buzzword.🤷♂️
But we’re hear to educate… www.hkpro.com/threads/over-the-beach-otb-faq.167716/
There you go. Please note that the article is from 2007.
Lol, it's news to me! I kinda figured that if I'm hearing about it now, then its probably been several years since the military started doing it. I've never heard a barrel manufacturer mention it. Manufacturing barrels to these standards is something many companies would consider advantageous. No doubt if they were already doing it, they'd have told everybody. Might be a good opportunity, or not.
@@billybob6784 otb has no set definition. ADM and Griffin offer OTB recoil spring tubes. Crane drills there own for the Navy.
Only manufacturer that has advertised OTB capability is Steyr for their AUG. French company St. Etienne claimed that their 3 groove barrels in their Fanas carbines prevented capillary action wich was a problem with M16s in Viet Nam.
@@jim99west46Thanks for taking time to provide all the info, it's much appreciated. Do you know the parameters that determine whether gun is otb capable or not, or where I could find that info? Thanks again
@@billybob6784 i only know this. On Pistols Glock offers maritime cups see google for info. Griffin Armament offers a OTB receiver extension with 7 holes in it. The Famas and AUG needed nothing to be submerged and then brought up firing. Glock offers maritime cups so the firing pin will actually strike hard enough after being submerged. As far as I know there is no publicly known DOD, Crane, Socom whatever design specs for OTB. We were taught to clear our rifles after being submerged. Augs and Famas no need to.
Fwiw the civilian Glock 19X has the maritime cups installed at the factory.
Piston? No way.
DI? 👀 Maybe.
They make a DI but piston systems are superior in every way. Cleaner, run cooler, come with adjustable gas block. 🤷♂️
@@paramounttactical I first heard about Caracal from Chris at Small Arms Solutions. Chris loves them, and I value Chris' opinion, so please don't get me wrong. They sound great. However, you left out a couple of big issues with external pistons: (1) More noticeable recoil impulse, and issues with that recoil (carrier tilt can be an issue whereas the DI is straight back as Stoner designed it); (2) Typically heavier due to the increased number of operating system parts; (3) That increased weight is in the front end of the gun so carrying it or using it for sustained lengths of time is uncomfortable; (4) Piston systems aren't technically cleaner, they are just dirty in a different area (near the gas port/piston/tappet area instead of the bolt/chamber area); and most importantly and why I never would buy a piston system (5) You are married to that company - for better or worse. If my LMT DI goes down, I can order parts from a hundred different websites and get it running in less than a week. In terms of cleaning, I pop the two bolts on the CQB upper, pull the barrel, and I can clean the BCG and chamber without issue. But if you go piston, last I heard they are all proprietary. Can you take the operating system from an LWRC and make that Caracal work if it goes down? Ehhh...maybe if you are MacGyver. Otherwise, you are waiting for a company that doesn't have a large market share in the U.S. to send replacement parts. And how is their customer service when it comes to that? I know an organization that jumped on the HK416D bandwagon and they have been waiting over a year for replacement parts when a couple of those went down. If the 816 floats your boat, sail on. I will look at their 814.