I think that vagabond scenario is where exporting is the most useful. If you have a tea in your hand, per say, and the vagabond doesn’t have one yet, then you can just nope it
I use it to bait more trades. For example, I set some prices to 1 and slowly start gathering warriors from other factions that cannot pass on that 1 cost let's say ambush card. Then I use export to get that 2nd warrior in my payment box to still get 2 extra funds at the start of my turn
While you are diversifying your funds by doing this, it comes at too great a cost. You've used an action to draw a card (a good one no less) you didn't get to use it yourself and let somebody else get a massive advantage by taking a great card from your hand and you didn't get a net increase in funds for the next turn, just the same baseline 2 but now they are of different factions. Funds of different factions is definitely a good thing, which is why it makes sense to sell things at 2 despite protectionism giving 2 anyways, but what you've given the other player is way more beneficial than what you've got yourself. The only way I can see it being worthwhile is if you export some junk like tunnels (which Riverfolk cannot use because they don't have crafting pieces) and then set prices to 2 on a strong hand like ambush and/or coins and tea. But this is still risky because if your opponents have discipline they can all agree to embargo you and now you've lost a card from hand (even a junk one has some value) you've wasted an action on the export, you've lost a potential sale that you could have had and you're down a payment since protectionism doesn't kick in. You could could counter and suggest to export twice but now you're wasting more cards and actions on the hope that one of your opponents caves. It's giving away too much influence to your opponents to decide your fate which can be suicide in a competitive game. If you're in last place with a hand of junk and you convinced your 2nd and 3rd place enemies to feed you on top of the exports so you can go after the leader, then you might profit. But now you've agreed to police from last place which is something the table knows you probably won't do since it's a cardinal rule of Root to never police from last and never believe someone who says they will so the scenario breaks down. Export has been picked apart byany of the higher ups in the Root world and very few legitimately good strategies have been found for it.
That's a big loss though. You lose the card you could have crafted for yourself and kept, you waste an action to do the export when you could have done anything else like draw more good cards, move, battle or set up a trade post and on top of all that, you just undercut protectionism and unless your opponents are feeling charitable, you get fewer payments next turn than you would have got from protectionism. It's because of these reasons that you never see export used at competitive levels outside of extremely niche circumstances.
And, in my opinion, export would be a bit more interesting if instead of only getting 1 fund, you would get X fund, X being the crafting cost necessary for the card
I only use exports in this niché scenario : I have at least 3 TP placed, I have 3 cards with a crafting cost of one, and I export all 3 of them. It can feel as a wasted turn, but I usually do so mid-game, so I have other funds to draw, and then, as other suggested, I bait people to buy for 1. The start of my next turn I have 3, if not often 5 funds more. I think it's worth the wait, but only in this particular scenario. It feels a bit like going into the woods as vagabond. You feel it's a turn wasted, but you are only stronger next turn. It is particularly usefull when you have some funds, but don't want to race yet with all your TP, so you play it low profile.
I suspect your vagabond scenario is the primary reason export exists in the first place. The base Game and River folk expansion were created around the vagabond-and I faintly remember his omnipotence in the early meta. This could’ve been the play Leder imagined would be the best thing for otters to do.
It coming in handy in very very specific circumstances. I don't hate its existence because it's just a special thing you can do if the situation calls for it. But lots of newer players might get tricked into thinking it's what you're supposed to do just because it's there on the player board.
Alllllsoooo! It’s a slow burn great investment for the next turn to spend all your cash flow on it. Next turn your money is close to doubled) (as long as you only buy 1 cost items).
How is your money close to doubled? You know that Export means you don't get protectionism, so you'd need to export 2 cards AND hope that somebody else buys in order to get any value. In my experience, when players export, nobody buys as a way to deny them the benefit they are hoping for. If they export once and don't get a buy, that's a net loss rather than just rely on Protectionism.
@@nitrorev I wish export gave two payments so that it didn't disincentivise itself, or if protectionism added one payment if you only had one. Otherwise, export or prices set to one are almost always terrible, and even a price set to 2 is usually bad since you were already guaranteed two. What Otter tweak, if any, would you like to see?
@@metafishling Prices set to 2 is important in games against advanced opponents. It's rare that people will pay 3 or more so setting prices that high is just guaranteed no sales unless you have amazing cards or they're desperate. Sales at 2 is important because you want diverse funds of different factions. At any point, your enemies can smash your otterball to eliminate your ability to rule clearings on your own. If you cannot rule a clearing, you cannot spend your own funds to place trade posts but you could still place trade posts with enemy funds. Advanced players will see a funds box full of otters and know that it's a good time to attack.
According to the Law of Root, you cannot craft a card of you have a crafted duplicate or item crafted is out of stock. The export allows you instead of the usual benefit of the card gain a fund. So by RAW you cannot export in these situations.
Theoretically, you could just start exporting single cost cards in exchange for funds if everyone has decided to boycott you for doing too well. Not sure how effective that would be since you have to do it thrice to get any value, though. What if export gave two funds? Too powerful?
If it gave 2 funds it would be at least somewhat useful. I would need to playtest that but yeah, it would actively discourage anybody from buying at that point. I see what you're saying that it can be used if people already aren't buying so maybe that's an idea.
Maybe it could be useful as some kind of hate pick, if you really want to prevent someone else from buying a certain card, lets say a favour card, even at price 4...
That's a huge waste of actions. If you could craft the favour already, why export it? Just take the benefit of the favour and destroy the 1/3 of the map. Export would be wasting all those funds needed to craft it on top of messing up your protectionism next turn, which is why we rarely ever see export used. It's bad for 2 reasons. It would be better to just draw cards to have more than 5 and then discard what you don't want enemies to buy.
@@nitrorev You're right there... who knows what developers had in mind when they cooked that up😂! Just wanted to let you know that I thoroughly enjoy your content!
@@JAMman I cannot say publicly because Guerric doesn't want people colluding beforehand or avoiding specific times to avoid playing people they don't want to play.
It's a specific thing the Riverfolk can do when they craft. Instead of taking the benefit of the card, you just discard the card to add a warrior to your payments box. It's not a good idea 99% of the time.
@@nitrorev I'm curious why not do it twice when 1) you wouldn't want to sell the cards, and 2) you don't expect much sales when the cards are gone. It is rather situational, but from what I can gather that was the point.
@@milanstevic8424 because that's 2 funds you've used to craft that could have gone towards anything else (draw cards, move battle, craft something useful, etc) and because of protectionism you were going to get 2 funds anyway. The only way export is optimal is if an opponent also buys from you in addition to your export. The problem is, this is completely in the control of your enemy and why would they just help you. It happens of course, but it's not reliable and very situational, so I cannot recommend it as real strategy but it's something to know about since I've seen it work out 2-3 times (out of hundreds of games played/watched).
@@nitrorev I completely agree that it is very situational and rarely used. But I also claim it is underused because people evaluate this badly. If you really want to get rid of the cards anyway, then you waste nothing, you just gain 2 funds. And maybe you want to funnel another player into maybe buying that one card that is strong for them, expensively. It's a bluff, sure, but I'm not sure why is Protectionism seen as a baseline: it's still not triggered when someone buys a service. In my mind Protectionism is to be avoided. In that sense getting rid of a good card should be seen as a worthy action, so the export actions are not always a waste. Simply drawing new cards with the 2 funds instead (so that you can discard the excess) is not the same thing, because it carries a risk of getting even better cards for your opponents, and exporting does not. Besides you get to remove something like Coffin Makers from the circulation. And I'd argue that if Protectionism was defined better you'd see exporting much more frequently because you could do it just once, and as it stands right now doing it just once makes no sense. If Protectionism would always get you up to two funds total, that would work much better. Price of 1 should work as expected, it's a weird design choice tbh, and I believe they will change this.
I just think Root needed a bit more time in the oven before release for it to be perfect. 2018 was well into the era of the "golden age of boardgames" but we're even better today. Faction design and the play testing process has become a lot better than it was 6 years ago. Export existing doesn't bother me at all because I can just ignore it until the one in a hundred instance were I need it. But things like Infamy being busted or favour cards or Coalitions should never have made it through and the community is stepping in to fix these issues.
![ATEEZ(에이티즈) - [GOLDEN HOUR : Part.2] Preview](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X4PfgRPBUVo/mqdefault.jpg)
A Woodland Alliance player paid 4 warriors to the Otters??? They must have been desperate!
Bet it was Mercenaries.
I think that vagabond scenario is where exporting is the most useful. If you have a tea in your hand, per say, and the vagabond doesn’t have one yet, then you can just nope it
I use it to bait more trades. For example, I set some prices to 1 and slowly start gathering warriors from other factions that cannot pass on that 1 cost let's say ambush card. Then I use export to get that 2nd warrior in my payment box to still get 2 extra funds at the start of my turn
Interesting, but don’t you think you’re giving other players too much of an advantage? 1 cost hand cards are dirt cheap and potentially very powerful.
While you are diversifying your funds by doing this, it comes at too great a cost. You've used an action to draw a card (a good one no less) you didn't get to use it yourself and let somebody else get a massive advantage by taking a great card from your hand and you didn't get a net increase in funds for the next turn, just the same baseline 2 but now they are of different factions. Funds of different factions is definitely a good thing, which is why it makes sense to sell things at 2 despite protectionism giving 2 anyways, but what you've given the other player is way more beneficial than what you've got yourself. The only way I can see it being worthwhile is if you export some junk like tunnels (which Riverfolk cannot use because they don't have crafting pieces) and then set prices to 2 on a strong hand like ambush and/or coins and tea. But this is still risky because if your opponents have discipline they can all agree to embargo you and now you've lost a card from hand (even a junk one has some value) you've wasted an action on the export, you've lost a potential sale that you could have had and you're down a payment since protectionism doesn't kick in. You could could counter and suggest to export twice but now you're wasting more cards and actions on the hope that one of your opponents caves. It's giving away too much influence to your opponents to decide your fate which can be suicide in a competitive game.
If you're in last place with a hand of junk and you convinced your 2nd and 3rd place enemies to feed you on top of the exports so you can go after the leader, then you might profit. But now you've agreed to police from last place which is something the table knows you probably won't do since it's a cardinal rule of Root to never police from last and never believe someone who says they will so the scenario breaks down.
Export has been picked apart byany of the higher ups in the Root world and very few legitimately good strategies have been found for it.
Keeps you from having stale product too. If you’ve been sitting on a card for longer than 2 turns you don’t plan to use, export it.
That's a big loss though. You lose the card you could have crafted for yourself and kept, you waste an action to do the export when you could have done anything else like draw more good cards, move, battle or set up a trade post and on top of all that, you just undercut protectionism and unless your opponents are feeling charitable, you get fewer payments next turn than you would have got from protectionism. It's because of these reasons that you never see export used at competitive levels outside of extremely niche circumstances.
Yeah, nah. If you want to get rid of useless cards, just draw more cards and then discard the useless ones.
And, in my opinion, export would be a bit more interesting if instead of only getting 1 fund, you would get X fund, X being the crafting cost necessary for the card
I only use exports in this niché scenario : I have at least 3 TP placed, I have 3 cards with a crafting cost of one, and I export all 3 of them. It can feel as a wasted turn, but I usually do so mid-game, so I have other funds to draw, and then, as other suggested, I bait people to buy for 1. The start of my next turn I have 3, if not often 5 funds more. I think it's worth the wait, but only in this particular scenario.
It feels a bit like going into the woods as vagabond. You feel it's a turn wasted, but you are only stronger next turn. It is particularly usefull when you have some funds, but don't want to race yet with all your TP, so you play it low profile.
I suspect your vagabond scenario is the primary reason export exists in the first place. The base Game and River folk expansion were created around the vagabond-and I faintly remember his omnipotence in the early meta. This could’ve been the play Leder imagined would be the best thing for otters to do.
It coming in handy in very very specific circumstances. I don't hate its existence because it's just a special thing you can do if the situation calls for it. But lots of newer players might get tricked into thinking it's what you're supposed to do just because it's there on the player board.
Alllllsoooo! It’s a slow burn great investment for the next turn to spend all your cash flow on it. Next turn your money is close to doubled) (as long as you only buy 1 cost items).
How is your money close to doubled? You know that Export means you don't get protectionism, so you'd need to export 2 cards AND hope that somebody else buys in order to get any value.
In my experience, when players export, nobody buys as a way to deny them the benefit they are hoping for. If they export once and don't get a buy, that's a net loss rather than just rely on Protectionism.
@@nitrorev I wish export gave two payments so that it didn't disincentivise itself, or if protectionism added one payment if you only had one. Otherwise, export or prices set to one are almost always terrible, and even a price set to 2 is usually bad since you were already guaranteed two. What Otter tweak, if any, would you like to see?
@@metafishling Prices set to 2 is important in games against advanced opponents. It's rare that people will pay 3 or more so setting prices that high is just guaranteed no sales unless you have amazing cards or they're desperate.
Sales at 2 is important because you want diverse funds of different factions. At any point, your enemies can smash your otterball to eliminate your ability to rule clearings on your own. If you cannot rule a clearing, you cannot spend your own funds to place trade posts but you could still place trade posts with enemy funds. Advanced players will see a funds box full of otters and know that it's a good time to attack.
According to the Law of Root, you cannot craft a card of you have a crafted duplicate or item crafted is out of stock. The export allows you instead of the usual benefit of the card gain a fund.
So by RAW you cannot export in these situations.
Yes, that's exactly what I said in the video.
@@nitrorev Damn, took a few tries before I heard that 't in "can't"
Sorry ._.
Missed the patch notes on this one. When did they add export ? Lmao
It's always been part of Riverfolk's design. It's explained under the crafting section of their player board.
Theoretically, you could just start exporting single cost cards in exchange for funds if everyone has decided to boycott you for doing too well. Not sure how effective that would be since you have to do it thrice to get any value, though.
What if export gave two funds? Too powerful?
If it gave 2 funds it would be at least somewhat useful. I would need to playtest that but yeah, it would actively discourage anybody from buying at that point. I see what you're saying that it can be used if people already aren't buying so maybe that's an idea.
Maybe it could be useful as some kind of hate pick, if you really want to prevent someone else from buying a certain card, lets say a favour card, even at price 4...
That's a huge waste of actions. If you could craft the favour already, why export it? Just take the benefit of the favour and destroy the 1/3 of the map. Export would be wasting all those funds needed to craft it on top of messing up your protectionism next turn, which is why we rarely ever see export used. It's bad for 2 reasons. It would be better to just draw cards to have more than 5 and then discard what you don't want enemies to buy.
@@nitrorev You're right there... who knows what developers had in mind when they cooked that up😂! Just wanted to let you know that I thoroughly enjoy your content!
I don't even know what export is 👀 what have I been missing
Not much!!! LOL
@@nitrorev lol if you say so 🙃 yo nitro what day is your round 1 in the tournament?
@@JAMman I cannot say publicly because Guerric doesn't want people colluding beforehand or avoiding specific times to avoid playing people they don't want to play.
@@nitrorev ahhhh makes sense. Hope to meet ya
What action is export?
It's a specific thing the Riverfolk can do when they craft. Instead of taking the benefit of the card, you just discard the card to add a warrior to your payments box. It's not a good idea 99% of the time.
@@nitrorev I'm curious why not do it twice when 1) you wouldn't want to sell the cards, and 2) you don't expect much sales when the cards are gone.
It is rather situational, but from what I can gather that was the point.
@@milanstevic8424 because that's 2 funds you've used to craft that could have gone towards anything else (draw cards, move battle, craft something useful, etc) and because of protectionism you were going to get 2 funds anyway. The only way export is optimal is if an opponent also buys from you in addition to your export. The problem is, this is completely in the control of your enemy and why would they just help you. It happens of course, but it's not reliable and very situational, so I cannot recommend it as real strategy but it's something to know about since I've seen it work out 2-3 times (out of hundreds of games played/watched).
@@nitrorev I completely agree that it is very situational and rarely used. But I also claim it is underused because people evaluate this badly.
If you really want to get rid of the cards anyway, then you waste nothing, you just gain 2 funds. And maybe you want to funnel another player into maybe buying that one card that is strong for them, expensively.
It's a bluff, sure, but I'm not sure why is Protectionism seen as a baseline: it's still not triggered when someone buys a service. In my mind Protectionism is to be avoided.
In that sense getting rid of a good card should be seen as a worthy action, so the export actions are not always a waste.
Simply drawing new cards with the 2 funds instead (so that you can discard the excess) is not the same thing, because it carries a risk of getting even better cards for your opponents, and exporting does not.
Besides you get to remove something like Coffin Makers from the circulation.
And I'd argue that if Protectionism was defined better you'd see exporting much more frequently because you could do it just once, and as it stands right now doing it just once makes no sense.
If Protectionism would always get you up to two funds total, that would work much better. Price of 1 should work as expected, it's a weird design choice tbh, and I believe they will change this.
For a game as well designed as Root, it's amazing how many useless features there are.
I just think Root needed a bit more time in the oven before release for it to be perfect. 2018 was well into the era of the "golden age of boardgames" but we're even better today. Faction design and the play testing process has become a lot better than it was 6 years ago. Export existing doesn't bother me at all because I can just ignore it until the one in a hundred instance were I need it. But things like Infamy being busted or favour cards or Coalitions should never have made it through and the community is stepping in to fix these issues.