Hey great, video. Very concise and to-the-point. And mostly correct. It's also true that clipping can be, and often is, applied before the final limiter. Doing so shapes the saturation/distortion of the clipping/limiting combo in a different, and sometimes preferable, way. Using saturation to "shave off" the peaks of transients so that loud transients don't cause "overs" (and you can make those sounds actually sound louder even though they're "not") on individual tracks is the same idea. It's just a matter of whether you want the limiter to squash the clipped sound or you want the limited sound to get clipped. The results are similar but not identical.
Hey I've seen engineers putting clipper before limiter, with the idea to saw off some of the transients so that the limiter doesn't pump as much. That does make a bit more sense to me. Any thoughts on using it that way? Thanks for the good explanation btw!
The way I’ve demonstrated how to apply a clipper is just one method of application. You can definitely apply a clipper before you’re limiter, but it will yield different results. Try it out both ways and see what works best for your track. Experiment and have fun with it!
Yes, it's actually more common to put the clipping before the limiting, but both sequences are used. In fact, just as serial compression is used to achieve a certain sound/results in certain circumstances, serial limiting/clipping can be used. In general, you're manipulating the crest factor. An understanding of that (you already have an intuitive understanding even if you don't know you do) will help a lot.
awesome video!! quick question. if you are dithering w PRO FAB say from 32 down to 16 would you simply set it in fab filter dither and then when exporting it from Ableton , change it to 16 no dither?
Do you have any advice regarding ranges of clipping (dB) to at least start with when experimenting? Totally get it is ultimately an ear thing to a large extent, but curious about your thoughts. Ty!
what about this? "Shaving down the peaks of a waveform using a clipper prior to limiting the signal allows the limiter to behave more efficiently. This can help you avoid pumping effects associated with heavily limiting a signal, allowing you to turn up the loudness of songs while maintaining clarity"
If you’re sending your mix to a mastering engineer, you’ll render a 32-bit floating point file and let them deal with limiting/clipping. If you’re mastering your audio yourself, which is likely the case if you’re watching this video, you’ll apply limiting/clipping prior to rendering it.
Really loved this video, just a have a doubt, when youre cutting with the limiter maybe 3db above 0db, in the clipper you are rescueing that loudness?, please help me
Most modern DAWs process audio internally in a 32-bit or 64-bit floating-point work environment, regardless of the bit depth you've recorded at. The reason they do this is that it makes it near impossible to clip audio within your DAW. Audio information that exceeds 0 dB is not truncated until it leaves your DAW and hits your audio interface's D/A converter; almost every modern audio interface truncates audio to 24-bits. As a result, most people are working with 32-bit or 64-bit audio and don't even realize it. If you export a 24-bit master, you've reduced the bit depth of your project, meaning you should apply dither. Something else to keep in mind is that when you bounce stems from a 32/64-bit work environment, you should render 32/64-bit files so that you don't need to apply dither to each file. You're only meant to apply dither once-during the mastering stage. Do a quick search online to identify the bit depth at which your DAW processes audio internally. You should be able to find this information on the DAW manufacturer's website. Once you've done this, you should have no problem identifying when to apply dither.
I actually haven't used it! However, it seems to contain some interesting controls. As long as it clips the signal you run through it, it should work. All you need to do at that point is decide if you like how it sounds.
If you clip a song, it distorts. Whether or not the distortion is noticeable and compliments the song is something that depends on the track. You can clip a dubstep track pretty hard before it becomes noticeable. In contrast, you’ll be able to hear the distortion in an acoustic track without much clipping applied.
I thought a limiter was a clipper. What's the main difference between the two? Is it just the fact that the limiter has a lower ratio and a clipper has an infinite/brickwall ratio? can't you just set the L2 to brickwall and have a similar effect?
The main difference is in the details of how gain reduction is applied. If you set the attack and release time on the Pro-L 2 to 0 ms, and boost the input gain to apply 20 dB of gain reduction, the signal should sound like it's clipping, right? Nope. In fact, there's a good chance you won't hear very much distortion at all. So, why is this? Imagine trying to apply 2 dB of peak compression using fast attack and release settings, only to hear the signal clip and distort instantly. Most users wouldn't like that because transparency is what many people are looking for when using a limiter; this leads me to believe that FabFilter designed the Pro-L 2 in a way that specifically avoids harsh clipping-style effects. The following screenshot contains a side by side waveform comparison post-processing. 20 dB of gain reduction has been applied by FabFilter's Pro-L 2 (green) and Kazrog's KClip 3 (blue). The Pro-L 2 is using super-fast attack and release settings, but you'll notice that the Pro-L 2's waveform looks nowhere near as distorted as KClip's waveform: imgur.com/2FPz4AO It may be safe to say that KClip applies gain reduction down to the sample, while the Pro-L 2 provides a broader form of gain reduction that avoids harshness and waveform distortion. You can still achieve clipping-style effects using the Pro-L 2, but you need to go about this in a somewhat counterintuitive way. Instead of trying to limit the signal to introduce clipping effects, you want to use a lookahead time that's so fast, and an attack time that's so slow, that the Pro-L 2 doesn't have time to react to the input signal effectively. Doing this will produce a clipping effect. I'm not privy to how the Pro-L 2 has been coded but based on the following side by side waveform comparison, my assumption is that it applies traditional clipping internally when it fails to catch transients. You'll notice that the two waveforms now look much more similar to one another than in the last comparison: imgur.com/YkPzX0E In my eyes, the benefit of using a dedicated clipper like KClip is that it provides its own unique clipping algorithms, a mid/side knob, various quality settings, and a multiband mode. You can certainly exploit the Pro-L 2 to produce clipping effects, but KClip provides a little bit more control.
What if I use a pro l 2 and set the ceiling to -2 and then increase the level to get -4 gain reduction and then again a final pro L 2 with -1 as ceiling and now try for -2db gain reduction? Is this possible?
@@shivjayvolvloikar Meaning streaming services, CD, vinyl, etc. The destination format will make a big difference. For example, if you master a song for vinyl distribution and make the song too loud, the grooves in the vinyl will be too wide-causing the needle of a record player to jump out of the grooves. I'm assuming you're mastering your music for streaming services. My Pro-L 2 video talks about mastering target levels for streaming services so I recommend checking that out: ruclips.net/video/uLAWMbunntc/видео.html
You dont literally have to clip the waveform to use a soft clipper. It can go before the limiter. Of course it will sound different because your putting a soft clipper on an already squashed/limited mix. This is not from what I understand is the intentions of a soft clipper. It has nothing left to soft clip if placed after the limiter, it needs to be fed transients, thats what soft clippers eat.
I think we were told not to clip because it is assumed we don't want that kind of distortion. Clippers are made specifically for musicality, so it's not the same thing as clipping a channel in your DAW.
Not seeing the point in clipping master. You should be clipping individual busses to get the highest volume. Then use saturation compressors and a limiter!
awesome video!! quick question. if you are dithering w PRO FAB say from 32 down to 16 would you simply set it in fab filter dither and then when exporting it from Ableton , change it to 16 no dither?
Get my music production course for beginners: bit.ly/3Dwmv83
Hey great, video. Very concise and to-the-point. And mostly correct. It's also true that clipping can be, and often is, applied before the final limiter. Doing so shapes the saturation/distortion of the clipping/limiting combo in a different, and sometimes preferable, way. Using saturation to "shave off" the peaks of transients so that loud transients don't cause "overs" (and you can make those sounds actually sound louder even though they're "not") on individual tracks is the same idea. It's just a matter of whether you want the limiter to squash the clipped sound or you want the limited sound to get clipped. The results are similar but not identical.
Well said. Thanks for adding this!
Inbetween 2 limiters!
This is the best video on the topic I could find
Good stuff! Glad I could help.
This is the best video by far, I use FL and still managed to get the sauce respect.
You, sir, deserve a huge RUclips career - THANK YOU!
I'm trying my best, haha. You're welcome!
A very useful video. Thanks!
Nice video. Like the others I´ve seen from Black Ghost Audio, things are explained technically but clearly and in a way that´s easy to understand.
Hey I've seen engineers putting clipper before limiter, with the idea to saw off some of the transients so that the limiter doesn't pump as much. That does make a bit more sense to me. Any thoughts on using it that way? Thanks for the good explanation btw!
The way I’ve demonstrated how to apply a clipper is just one method of application. You can definitely apply a clipper before you’re limiter, but it will yield different results. Try it out both ways and see what works best for your track. Experiment and have fun with it!
Yes, it's actually more common to put the clipping before the limiting, but both sequences are used. In fact, just as serial compression is used to achieve a certain sound/results in certain circumstances, serial limiting/clipping can be used. In general, you're manipulating the crest factor. An understanding of that (you already have an intuitive understanding even if you don't know you do) will help a lot.
Great video! Exactly what I was looking for, thanks a lot!
vibing to your intro music
awesome video!! quick question. if you are dithering w PRO FAB say from 32 down to 16 would you simply set it in fab filter dither and then when exporting it from Ableton , change it to 16 no dither?
Yes, that’s correct, as long as the Pro-L 2 is the last plugin in your mastering chain. Otherwise, just use Ableton’s built-in dither feature.
You DOOF DOOF fellas get the rms up around -3 don't yas? That's fully sick bros.
If it's not redlining, you ain't headling, bruv.
@@BlackGhostAudio Dude, so dope. I shoot for - 1db rms. And I do barbershop. I ain't leaving till both ears are bleeding.
Do you have any advice regarding ranges of clipping (dB) to at least start with when experimenting? Totally get it is ultimately an ear thing to a large extent, but curious about your thoughts. Ty!
what about this? "Shaving down the peaks of a waveform using a clipper prior to limiting the signal allows the limiter to behave more efficiently. This can help you avoid pumping effects associated with heavily limiting a signal, allowing you to turn up the loudness of songs while maintaining clarity"
great video
Thanks! I appreciate you checking it out.
Do you have to apply the limiter and clipper AFTER rendering your soundtrack’s master?
Or BEFORE during the process before rendering the soundtrack?
If you’re sending your mix to a mastering engineer, you’ll render a 32-bit floating point file and let them deal with limiting/clipping.
If you’re mastering your audio yourself, which is likely the case if you’re watching this video, you’ll apply limiting/clipping prior to rendering it.
Really loved this video, just a have a doubt, when youre cutting with the limiter maybe 3db above 0db, in the clipper you are rescueing that loudness?, please help me
I don’t understand why we should use dithering if we’re not exporting at decreased bit depth
Most modern DAWs process audio internally in a 32-bit or 64-bit floating-point work environment, regardless of the bit depth you've recorded at. The reason they do this is that it makes it near impossible to clip audio within your DAW. Audio information that exceeds 0 dB is not truncated until it leaves your DAW and hits your audio interface's D/A converter; almost every modern audio interface truncates audio to 24-bits.
As a result, most people are working with 32-bit or 64-bit audio and don't even realize it. If you export a 24-bit master, you've reduced the bit depth of your project, meaning you should apply dither.
Something else to keep in mind is that when you bounce stems from a 32/64-bit work environment, you should render 32/64-bit files so that you don't need to apply dither to each file. You're only meant to apply dither once-during the mastering stage.
Do a quick search online to identify the bit depth at which your DAW processes audio internally. You should be able to find this information on the DAW manufacturer's website. Once you've done this, you should have no problem identifying when to apply dither.
In your opinion is Boz’s Big Clipper up to the task ?
Great video , kudos !!!
And apologies for deleting original comment , my question was answered after rewatching the video
I actually haven't used it! However, it seems to contain some interesting controls. As long as it clips the signal you run through it, it should work. All you need to do at that point is decide if you like how it sounds.
how can i clip the master over 0db without distorting it i've seen many song are over 0db
If you clip a song, it distorts. Whether or not the distortion is noticeable and compliments the song is something that depends on the track. You can clip a dubstep track pretty hard before it becomes noticeable. In contrast, you’ll be able to hear the distortion in an acoustic track without much clipping applied.
I thought a limiter was a clipper. What's the main difference between the two? Is it just the fact that the limiter has a lower ratio and a clipper has an infinite/brickwall ratio? can't you just set the L2 to brickwall and have a similar effect?
The main difference is in the details of how gain reduction is applied. If you set the attack and release time on the Pro-L 2 to 0 ms, and boost the input gain to apply 20 dB of gain reduction, the signal should sound like it's clipping, right? Nope. In fact, there's a good chance you won't hear very much distortion at all.
So, why is this? Imagine trying to apply 2 dB of peak compression using fast attack and release settings, only to hear the signal clip and distort instantly. Most users wouldn't like that because transparency is what many people are looking for when using a limiter; this leads me to believe that FabFilter designed the Pro-L 2 in a way that specifically avoids harsh clipping-style effects.
The following screenshot contains a side by side waveform comparison post-processing. 20 dB of gain reduction has been applied by FabFilter's Pro-L 2 (green) and Kazrog's KClip 3 (blue). The Pro-L 2 is using super-fast attack and release settings, but you'll notice that the Pro-L 2's waveform looks nowhere near as distorted as KClip's waveform: imgur.com/2FPz4AO
It may be safe to say that KClip applies gain reduction down to the sample, while the Pro-L 2 provides a broader form of gain reduction that avoids harshness and waveform distortion.
You can still achieve clipping-style effects using the Pro-L 2, but you need to go about this in a somewhat counterintuitive way. Instead of trying to limit the signal to introduce clipping effects, you want to use a lookahead time that's so fast, and an attack time that's so slow, that the Pro-L 2 doesn't have time to react to the input signal effectively. Doing this will produce a clipping effect.
I'm not privy to how the Pro-L 2 has been coded but based on the following side by side waveform comparison, my assumption is that it applies traditional clipping internally when it fails to catch transients. You'll notice that the two waveforms now look much more similar to one another than in the last comparison: imgur.com/YkPzX0E
In my eyes, the benefit of using a dedicated clipper like KClip is that it provides its own unique clipping algorithms, a mid/side knob, various quality settings, and a multiband mode. You can certainly exploit the Pro-L 2 to produce clipping effects, but KClip provides a little bit more control.
What if I use a pro l 2 and set the ceiling to -2 and then increase the level to get -4 gain reduction and then again a final pro L 2 with -1 as ceiling and now try for -2db gain reduction? Is this possible?
Sure. The final output will be peaking at -1 dB so just keep that in mind based on the format you’re mastering your music for.
@@BlackGhostAudio format meaning sir?
@@BlackGhostAudio will ot make any changes in the type of format?
@@shivjayvolvloikar Meaning streaming services, CD, vinyl, etc. The destination format will make a big difference. For example, if you master a song for vinyl distribution and make the song too loud, the grooves in the vinyl will be too wide-causing the needle of a record player to jump out of the grooves. I'm assuming you're mastering your music for streaming services. My Pro-L 2 video talks about mastering target levels for streaming services so I recommend checking that out: ruclips.net/video/uLAWMbunntc/видео.html
@@BlackGhostAudio I always send demos to labels, for that I use mp3 so, that time I can go loud right?
You dont literally have to clip the waveform to use a soft clipper. It can go before the limiter. Of course it will sound different because your putting a soft clipper on an already squashed/limited mix. This is not from what I understand is the intentions of a soft clipper. It has nothing left to soft clip if placed after the limiter, it needs to be fed transients, thats what soft clippers eat.
Is this just a recap of baphometrix lectures on the subject?
I’m not sure who/what that is 🤷🏼♂️ Send me a link, I’ll check it out.
It's funny because our entire lives we were told not to clip ha ha
It's the truth though.
I think we were told not to clip because it is assumed we don't want that kind of distortion. Clippers are made specifically for musicality, so it's not the same thing as clipping a channel in your DAW.
Not seeing the point in clipping master. You should be clipping individual busses to get the highest volume. Then use saturation compressors and a limiter!
There is no "should" in this case, only taste, preference, and whatever the circumstances demand or ask for.
awesome video!! quick question. if you are dithering w PRO FAB say from 32 down to 16 would you simply set it in fab filter dither and then when exporting it from Ableton , change it to 16 no dither?