A lot of people have asked how I did the clipping in my mix on individual tracks and sub-mixes. And how and when I use soft and hard clipping. Seeing as there was so much ground to cover I did 2 separate videos on that. This is how I approached clipping using a special multiband soft clipper on the mix busses: I Fixed This Quiet Mix with Only ONE PLUGIN! ruclips.net/video/wIYISOFtgB4/видео.html And here is a 2.5 hour free end to end mixing tutorial including how I use both hard and soft clippers in my mix on individual tracks and also sub-mixes: Step-by-Step MIXING from Beginner to PRO: 2.5 Hours of Secrets, Tricks, and Pro Tips ruclips.net/video/bj7ZNvmfRwA/видео.html
Excellent discussion. I've grown to embrace clipping as a way to control my dynamics more than heavy limiting. I think it sounds better while maintaining loudness.
Well said! I agree completely. I think limiters have their place, but in terms of controlling peak level all throughout a mix, they're not the best tool for the job. In general, most limiters are too CPU heavy with the big brains on them. Lightweight track clippers are excellent for this. And then clipping can be a great effect to keep punch and loudness, like you said. Cheers.
I’ve been using this technique for a while now but never understood why hard clipping sounded better. Now I do, thanks again for sharing your knowledge ❤
And a man like Vespers. I REMEMBER THE DAY I FOUND YOU ON THE OLD WILD WEST RUclips, AND YOU CHANGED MY WORLD THAN. The capitals were intended, because I felt like I was drowning in bad misappropriated information until your brilliant videos were made known to me. Never had anyone talked about templates, top down mixing etc., at least not in an electronic music context, and although I no longer use Ableton and have switched to Studio One, I STILL follow your advice because it always works when you apply it correctly and with receipts. now I know their were others before you, but no one has left me more informed and not only feeling able to do the work and complete the task, but getting tangible results and walking away with signed music. The only comparison I could make to your breadth of knowledge and ability to discourse it in a meaningful and memorable way would be Dan Worrall , or Streaky's RUclips channels. Thank you so much for offering your insights in such a digestible way. Takes a lot of time to do these videos with such high quality and for you to offer them outside of your academy is admirable and pretty selfless, more humans would do better to be a bit alike you sir. Cheers and God Bless!
Thanks very much for taking the time to reflect back how my work has impacted you over the years. It’s quite a huge compliment to be mentioned alongside Dan Worral and Streaky, both people I respect greatly. I appreciate the kind words and for your support over the years following the channel. Cheers and all the best with your music!
Great video, each time you sum signals you get new peaks, If I want to mix loud I use a lot of busses and at each summing stage I use a clipper eventually to get rid of those peaks before hitting my masterbus compressor. The clip to zero technique is really interesting if you want to mix loud as f*
Absolutely. You’re right that new peaks are created at each summing point. It’s a best practice for sure to use submixes / busses and process at that level as well. I’ll have a video on that soon. In terms of CTZ, it has some great insights about workflow and clippers. Good stuff.
Ok wow, I’m impressed with how well you explain things. Must be a first here on YT… and I’ve seen many videos! Quality content, keep it up! Thumbs up for what I’ve seen so far…👍
I learned a lot from your channel man .. i'm currently in the process of mastering my album right now thanks to you and a few others here on RUclips .. i learned soooo much from this channel so i just wanted to stop by to say THANK YOU !! Wanted to give you your flowers asap ! It wouldn't have been possible without the knowledge i gain from you and your channel .. so again .. THANK YOU ... Btw my album is sounding AMAZING so far 😎
Right on mate. Super stoked to hear that. Props on the album project; that's a big and significant undertaking. Join up in our Discord server (link in the video description) and stay in touch. Cheers!
I fought the clipping thing but I do see the benefit as you get down the mix and mastering phase. I love my drums to be punchy but that always leads to some of these peaks. Now that I tame them every so slightly with bx_clipper, my limiter is not struggling near as much.
For sure. That’s a huge benefit. Now try clipping each individual drum vs doing it on the bus or master. It will be way cleaner. And because the clipper introduced a small splash of distortion you won’t even miss the level in the transient because the drums will actually sound louder and punchier with clipping than with higher peak level. It’s a beautiful thing. Just find the sweet spot and don’t clip them too much.
@@warpacademy Future house, Jackin, half time, 140, Left Field. Will take all recommendations and just buy the waves off of Beatport. I would like to send you one as well that stood out to me and mastered by I believe Chris Alexander.
Love the effort put into your voice in intro. can hear huge difference to how your voice sound when you share ableton screen part. Also love that your examples are DnB songs because Im currently doing this type of DnB tracks a lot and it helps me somewhat better.
So I would have liked to know what you did on a mix level to reduce those transient bursts. Or what can be done if you are the producer and have access to all the tracks in the mix. Do you add a soft clipper to the track? Or a hard clipper? Or what? Thanks
Absolutely. That is the logical question. Because there was so much ground to cover I did that in separate videos. This is how I approached clipping using a special multiband soft clipper on the mix busses: I Fixed This Quiet Mix with Only ONE PLUGIN! ruclips.net/video/wIYISOFtgB4/видео.html And here is a 2.5 hour free end to end mixing tutorial including how I use both hard and soft clippers in my mix on individual tracks and also sub-mixes: Step-by-Step MIXING from Beginner to PRO: 2.5 Hours of Secrets, Tricks, and Pro Tips ruclips.net/video/bj7ZNvmfRwA/видео.html
Hi. What to do if you’re getting -7.6 lufs and red color with Span a +3.3db true peak? I need a true peak of 0 to -2 right? So Gain adjust down 3.3db? Or what else to keep dynamics etc…? It’s too loud. For Spotify distrokid. ..
Hey hey. Good question. I would venture a guess and say that you're pushing your limiter way too hard and getting too much gain reduction in your mastering phase, creating distortion. It's hard to know for sure without seeing your mastering chain and hearing your mix. In general though, most people pushing for loud masters (-9 LUFS or louder) do too much with the mastering chain because they haven't learned how to get their mixes loud enough in the first place. My mixes are -10 LUFS / -11 LUFS before I even start mastering, which means my mastering limiter is doing 2 dB of gain reduction in most cases. To see a masterclass on how work (and how to get loudness from your mix, not your master), check these videos out (all free): My mix template - how I route things for clean, loud mixes: ruclips.net/video/cnQC0146TZg/видео.html A full 2.5 hour deep mixing session: ruclips.net/video/bj7ZNvmfRwA/видео.html
Oh, and regarding your true peak level - yeah +3.3 is way over the top. You'll definitely need to back off your limiter and rein those in. I would ensure you're using 4X oversampling in your limiter, likely use more lookahead than you're using because it's likely you're generating a ton of distortion, and back off the gain into the limiter. Watch this video I just posted about setting up limiters: ruclips.net/video/_HiDh7n6TaU/видео.html
@@warpacademy I didn’t use or get to the limiter yet. It’s an older two track no stems. I tried EQ just now, should I just reduce gain with izone free EQ 11 vocal preset, -2.9bd gets true peak to -1 and lufs to 10.5 reading meter in voxengo span? My fab filter L doesn’t have place to reduce gain on left side and true peak reduction right side called tpdb or something, doesn’t work it’s still at plus 3.
@@warpacademy so I used izone 11 EQ -3db seems to solve it but... it it’s just one ”two track” and I might add second vocal track for doubles in the Edm house drop. I stopped EQ instead used and tried the Utilites plug-in now and I got -13lufs and -1db truepeak. So Which of those two ways is better? EQ or utilies plug-in ableton? So my track is basically the master already! probably it was bounced compressed and mastered last year and I forgot about it. ‘) is dropping those one track fader is the same as utility plugin in this one track case? can there be dither and bit depth issues involved? Distortion, squashing? . Instead putting on one track can I put the Utilites plug-in on the master and just turn down the output, won’t it kill my mix? Txs
Hey hey. I help as much as I can on RUclips but these are some really specific and technical questions. No way I can answer this stuff without seeing your session or loading it up inside my DAW and analyzing the song. For that you’d need to hire me to consult or mix your project, which you’re welcome to do on my site: vespers.ca. I’ll help if I can. Cheers!
Yes exactly. I use track clippers to transparently hard clip many individual sounds in my mix, and then I also typically clip or limit my sub-mixes before going to the 2 bus.
@@warpacademy by “sub mixes” you mean you limit the low end? And you just hard clip any sounds with spikey transient? Like hats,snare,kick ..? Or other sound to
Oh, by sub-mixes I mean busses. I use a detailed set of busses in my mixing, such as Hi End Percussion, Low End Percussion. Kicks, Snares, All Drums, Midrange Synths, Bass, Sub, FX, Vocals, Ducking, All Returns. They give me many layers of control, with clipping another aspects of mixing.
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed this one. Regarding normalization, I actually just published a video where I discuss that in my mastering prep process: ruclips.net/video/xzujAhDVg6w/видео.html
Hey Christian. It's been a minute since I used SoundForge so I don't recall. But you can definitely do this (adjusting sample points) in iZotope RX stand alone Audio Editor. Not sure if that's what you meant. Cheers.
if you focus on quality - what is strongly recommended for the future - then one of the most important tasks is to end this mindless loudness war. to take part of the loudness-war, you are reducing your target group more and more and more every year. but in the meantime, it can be observed with many colleagues that they themselves are making their hearing worse and worse by getting used to the inferior quality that this produces. so, this is the importend task. the creator has to make better decisions before the target group can do.
Thanks for sharing your perspectives. Interestingly, the 2024 Grammy for Best Electronic / Dance Recording was given to Skrillex for the song Rumble, which was mastered by multi-Grammy nominated and winning engineer Luca Pretolesi to a little hotter than -6 LUFS in the drops. So the industry has made it pretty clear that (clean, well-engineered) loudness and quality can co-exist, at least up to a point. The key is to engineer the music in such a way that you don't get garbage loudness.
Hello, very good. Do you set limitless, up with the bands set up on the way the track falls, as in low-end, kick drum, They look like they are set to specific areas in the waveform. Thanks again.
Hey hey. Glad you enjoyed this one. I actually often leave the bands at default. You can also remove bands to simplify things if you want. Some controls that are very significant in Limitless are the band Separation control, which governs how multiband the behavior is. And Weighting is also very important as it controls how much GR is applied to the bass vs upper frequencies. Cheers!
Its really hard to take you seriously when Im listening to you talk about it and your voice eq is actually distracting me from what you are saying. This is a video about sound right?
Hey Ian. I'm always experimenting with EQ settings. And I definitely appreciate well-intentioned feedback. I admittedly did overdo the low end EQ in some videos, and I'm backing that off now.
Now this type of vibe in feedback is really unnecessary. I invite constructive feedback and I'm open to it, but there's no need to be condescending. If you choose to stick around the channel, and I hope you do, I'll invite you to rethink that approach. I know things are frustrating sometimes, especially when they seem like big oversights, but let's keep in mind that everyone on RUclips is creating content that you get to watch for free, which you would otherwise have to pay for. Comment, yes! Feedback, yes! Keep the vibe friendly.
Gosh, 10 minutes “everyone make mistake, my mix is good……” to 3 second shaving peaks with hard clipping advice …. commercial for advice. Glad to see YT advanced form content like this for the most part.
@@algorix8420 important but could be compress or clipped from the unnecessary. sorry for the pun 😄 since than i came across some real good explanations, with examples, and fun talk on the subject. now i dunno what i was even doing with my life w/o standard clip 😎 and keeping research on the subject
I agree with pop - it's closer to -8. That's why I said there's a range and it applies to pop, hip hop, and electronic music. In dub step and drum & bass, it's common to see -4 to -6. In hip hop and pop it's less loud, but still very loud. -8 is typical. I analyzed over 100 drum & bass references of modern releases, and the average level in drops is -4 to -5 LUFS. Seeing as this song is a drum & bass tune, I used that loudness range for the master.
@@warpacademyindeed dnb is still around -4 to -5 LUFs and some crazy mofos from the Netherlands ;) managed to go even beyond that with a clean mix… but Noisia are just different
Excellent explanation. Does it then mean that in your mixing project, so during mixing, you would put a clipper/limiter plugin on every individual track, as well as on each group/bus track ? If not, why not ?
If I’m mixing for maximum loudness, like in say a drum and bass track, then I could transparently hard clip nearly every sound except the sub and vocals, I wouldn’t clip the returns either. Nearly everything else. And yes I would clip a touch (not very much) at each summing point. So busses yes. Master yes. I usually would use non oversampled hard clipping. But in some cases I use a limiter or even manual gain adjustment by hand. I tend to use a limiter on my sub (a slower transparent limiter) and vocals. And I may use a clipper into a limiter on some busses. You have to be really careful not to kill the punch and all the dynamics. So less is more sometimes and there’s an art to doing it right. Otherwise you get a mess of over compressed garbage.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Actually, I prep the mix first in iZotope RX Audio Editor and I handle all the highest peaks manually using gain rendering. I have a video coming up about that mastering prep process very soon. Stay tuned. Once that's done, I set Gold Clip first in chain usually to handle a few dB of clipping on the remaining peaks (which are much more even now after the iZotope RX manual limiting process). Hope that makes sense. Cheers!
Hey Paul. I export the entire mix, and then process that in RX doing the peak level manual gain / manual limiting. So it's a single stereo file. For handling micro-peaks on individual tracks and busses in the mix, I use clipping. Also, once the entire mix is processed in RX, I import it into the DAW for the mastering session, where I clip it again with Gold Clip (first in chain) if I'm mastering really loud, like in this case. Cheers!
I don't have a video on how to properly read them, but what I do is compare the spectrum of reference tracks to my mix using this technique: ruclips.net/video/wSizHvzC4Yg/видео.html
Just trying to confirm something... In the 'What techniques did I use?" segment, you mention that performing gain operations on micro transients is not recommended on an entire master, do it in the mix. However in one of your recent videos, (Before mastering, I do this) you mention doing this prior to mastering via Izotope RX. Could you perhaps elaborate on this? Does it depend on how heavy handed / how long the duration of the change is? Love the videos, great content! Thank you!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Yes I realize that’s a bit confusing so let me clarify. The big mistake with many people is leaving all the peaks totally unattended through mixing and ramming them all into a limiter during mastering. That makes for a garbage master usually with distortion and artifacts. What I do is clip and handle transients all through the mix, on individual sounds and busses. Then I use RX to shape the mix manually (like you saw in my “Before Mastering I Do This” video). Each summing point creates micro-transients. This way I can handle them with zero distortion and artifacts. Then I run the mastering chain on the cleaned up RX pre-master. Now, there are many scenarios where I’m not the mixer. I’m only mastering. Like in that recent video. So there was no clipping used in the mix and all the micro- transients were in the stereo mix export. In that case I use RX more heavily to clean them up so my mastering chain doesn’t freak out and work too hard. As you saw in my most recent mastering video “How to Master a Song Start to Finish”, I was only just tickling the master limiter a couple dB due to the fact that RX had done a bunch of the work using manual gain. Hope that helps understand the process a bit more. Cheers!
After seeing this video I'm feeling pretty good with my skills since I have no problem reaching -7 or -6 LUFS without distortion. I've heard recent releases like the latest Rolling Stones album, or Olivia Rodrigo, which goes as high as -5 LUFS. Now there's a challenge!.
Congrats on clean engineering. Don’t push it unless there’s a really good reason. I did this because that’s where drum and bass songs are mastered to on every major label. -5 is loud AF for sure.
@@TheAcreDnB maybe some songs? I analyze drum & bass all the time and I'm seeing -4 to -5 LUFS integrated in the drops. Are you talking about short term or momentary perhaps? RMS? Link to some songs if you want. I'd be curious to hear them.
@@warpacademy yeah sorry, momentary, not long term, i forgot to mention audio - marauder for example, or the clamps - conviction, these two mfs are hitting -1.6 momentary easily :D
Hey hey. Glad you like it. This jacket is actually custom Warp Academy apparel that we only provide to instructors. Maybe in the future we'll make ones available for members too. Cheers!
I limit before the processing chain to shave off such peaks, and then a cascade of limiters/clippers at the end of the chain - instead trying to remix the whole thing lol
Do you have any tips on how you manage your dynamics as you use a hard clipper on each individual elements? How do you measure "the bigger dynamic picture" as you go along? Do you have SPAN on the master and occasionally check this to see how the dynamics are in total? And for the clipping itself - is it more of a "if it sounds good, it probably is", or are you mainly looking to flatten the worst peaks for most of everything? Thanks for great insight btw. subscribed.
Hey hey. Thanks for subscribing. I do use SPAN but not for dynamics monitoring. For that I gauge it by ear. It is certainly possible to over clip and limit sounds if you’re not careful. Sometimes I use clippers in parallel, for instance on the main drum buss after all the individual drums have been hard clipped. I clip as much as the sound can take while still retaining perceived punch in a clean way. Also carefully adjusted by ear.
@@warpacademy Thanks for the swift reply. So you try not to add clippers to everything per say, it's more of a selective process and where it is needed. I see some people clip on the masters before the limiter as well, so I was just curious as to what's the more beneficial way of doing it and not over-doing it. Will do some experimenting. Thanks again for good content :)
You're welcome. Yes, keep in mind that a clipper is a distortion device first and foremost. It reduces peak level as a side-effect, but it will always make distortion. So I rarely clip vocals, sub, or delicate sustained sounds like pads or keys. Limiting on the other hand controls dynamic range first and foremost and only creates distortion as a side-effect if you push it too far. Most of the time limiting doesn't create distortion, unless you zero out lookahead and use a very fast release. So for the aforementioned sounds (vocals, sub, pads, keys) try limiting first if you need to contain dynamic range, not clipping. Regarding clipping before the limiter, yes this is common approach. Although lately I've been putting the clipper first in chain, and the limiter last. Clipping first in chain is a great move when you want to reduce spurious peaks into gain-sensitive mastering effects between the clipper and limiter (IE saturation, compression, dynamic EQ). Cheers!
My question is, how do you get rid of the high samples volume that are barely audible during the mix if you don't get to see the resulting waveform? I already do what is talked about in the video, but I just use my ear and try to do light clipping, like up to 2 db maximum on single tracks; it's kind of working for me already but I feel like I'm not so intentional and mindful yet
Hey hey. This is my process for doing it on the master: Before Mastering I Do THIS…✅ ruclips.net/video/xzujAhDVg6w/видео.html On individual tracks I have them as audio so I can visualize the peaks or I use a waveform scope like an oscilloscope. Usually I have a clipper up that uses a waveform display like K-Clip or Gold Clip. In regards to your 2 dB of clipping comment. Some sounds can take much more than that. It depends on the sample. It’s not uncommon for me to clip a snare like 4-6 dB. Unless it’s already a mastered snare from a sample pack. In that case I may not clip it at all ;) Hope that helps. Cheers!
Hey Drew, back watching for a third time. Great content man. I have a question for you. Are there any books you would recommend to read to help people on their musical journey? To help with the technical side of things or the industry itself. You suggested before 'Atomic Habits', grateful for that one. Also have you thought about setting up Patreon? I'd gladly contribute after how much you have helped me and many others. Thanks man
Hey Ryan. Thanks for the kind words man! Means a lot to hear from you. For mixing I wouldn’t recommend any books, but I would def recommend watching all of Luca Pretolesi and David Gnozzi’s videos on Mymixlab and MixbusTV respectively. They are amazing mixers. No book will ever be able to teach what you experience with your ears. Regarding personal development though, I have so many book recommendations it’d make your head spin. Chop Wood, Carry Water. Start there. You think it’s a kids book maybe but then you will realize it’s deep stuff. To make more detailed recommendations I’d need to get to know you better and hear about your goals. You can always inquire about booking a consult with me via my vespers.ca site. Regarding Patreon, thanks for the offer of support! I am actually in the process of setting up something like that. It’ll be a simple monthly donation via Warp Academy and not on Patreon as they take a cut. I’m deciding on what to set the price at though. Could you let me know what a comfortable amount would be for sometime like yourself as a monthly amount? Cheers!
@@warpacademy Hey man thanks a lot for the time taken to give a detailed reply. Perfect i'll make my way through the videos! Love quality content, so helpful. I was actually looking at your coaching packages on your site the other day. Maybe an initial consult would be the way forward. Thanks for that i'll look into it. Well, I cant speak for anybody else but in my current financial position, being a bedroom producer trying to work as little as possible.. I would spend $50 a month on knowledge for sure. I mean i'm not sure what the going rate is so i could be way off. Im pretty sure whatever you set, the people that really want to make it in thie industry will pay it. I know i will. Thanks again man, talk soon
Cheers Ryan! And thanks for the feedback about the membership tiers. Actually, we already have a membership tier called Plus that's $29 a month if you pay annually, or $39 a month if paid monthly. If you feel so inclined, it would be gratefully received to have you sign up. warpacademy.com/membership-account/membership-plans/
I have a maybe stupid question: Wouldn't it work on the whole Mix if you had a very fast Limiter (or some offline process), that could just look for these mini peaks and turn them down?
All questions are welcome. What you’re describing is a clipper. A very fast processor that turns down samples. A clipper is a form of limiter with zero attack and release time and a brick wall. But it generates distortion. So do limiters but limiters use a big brain to try and avoid that. At the expense of making transients sound dull sometimes. I use both! Know the tools and where and when to use them.
Who wants " in your face" result. I like depth in mixes. Dynamic range. A difference between drums, bass, guitars and the leadsinger up front in the mix✌️
To each their own. It’s a stylistic and genre specific sound. Which I expect doesn’t apply to what you’re into. Seems like you’re talking about band stuff? I’m not. Also depth and a loud in your face sound can exist at the same time. Depth staging can be done well in a loud mix but a lot of loud mixes and masters can sound closed in, you’re right. Especially if they’re using saturation the wrong way.
Perhaps much of the music on DSPs like Spotify. But outside of that realm, and especially in anything from the field of electronic music, masters are being done much louder. Even on Spotify, most pop masters are being done at -8 LUFS, and in electronic / dance music they're being done at -4 to -6 LUFS. The 2024 Grammy winner for best electronic / dance recording (Rumble, Skrillex / FlowDan / Fred Again) was mastered to -6 LUFS. I'd suggest you watch this: ruclips.net/video/UHxKQ3iIPyA/видео.html
Three things I have learned the hard way - 1. As Chris Lord Alge once said "How much bus compression?" A: "As little as I can get away with" 2. Spectral balance is HUGE because spectral balance will give your track smoothness as it gets louder. 3. Know the Fletcher-Munson curve and understand where loudness lives in the spectrum. This was written before watching this video. Let's see if we are saying the same things. EDIT: Great video! And great channel! Subbed - I will be checking out your thoughts. So, your emphasis of crest factor, and use of clipping is related to the compression comment. I also use clippers at the instrument group level, especially on drums. My genre is rock, hard rock, metal and prog rock. So great point there. And you also mentioned spectral balance which is so important. Obviously, you don't want to ruin the feel of the track to achieve total balance, but you want to get as much balance as you can which gives not only perceived (and actual) loudness, but also smoothness. This was a great video - the highlight of my day, and now I have an experiment I want to try!
Right on. Thanks for the comment and for joining as a subscriber! I'll respond to your points: 1) "As little as I can get away with" - For me, I'm a very different mixer than CLA. I mix loud electronic bass music. I don't use bus compression - like AT ALL. I use saturation, clipping, limiting, and gain shaping via transient shapers. All of those things do the same job as bus compression, which is why I don't need to reach for it (glue, crest factor reduction, increasing perceptual loudness, introducing harmonic density, inflating low level material). I'm also more in the camp of "as much as I can get away with" vs. "as little as I can get away with" because the artists I work with want MEGA loud masters. 2) Spectral balance: Yes. If you want music that sounds good when played at 100 db SPL and up, you need to carefully attend to this. 3) Although they were a key and respected part of the initial research in this area, Fletcher-Munson curves are no longer considered accurate. They've been replaced by ISO226:2003 Equal Loudness Contours which are based on newer research and are considered more accurate. LUFS measurement standards also have equal loudness contours which differ from the old Fletcher & Munson curves. And, at the same time, I totally get what you're saying. You need to understand and cater to how the human auditory system perceives loudness, and how that relates to different frequencies and sound pressure levels. I discuss this in quite a bit of detail in this video about sub: ruclips.net/video/bRmPK3d9Cmw/видео.html. I'm glad you liked this video and it's been nice to connect in the comments. I hope to see you around the channel. Cheers!
Cheers! I love the tune. It was produced by DUSKO (Sam Winter & Daniel Cowart) and was made 100% with samples and Serum presets from our Darkside Funk soundbank at Warp Academy.
You're talking about how to get a relatively clean -2 to -1 LUFS master? If so, I'll have to weigh in with some tough love here and say that's absolute insanity. First of all, there's no need for that, even in the loudest genres played in DJ sets. Second, you'd be making so many compromises that you'd be completely destroying the art and music in the name of loudness. It is conceivable to get quite a clean sounding -5 to -6 using some really tight engineering tricks, but much beyond that and there's only one main way of pushing louder, and that's to sacrifice bass. I've never heard a -4 LUFS or beyond track from anyone that I actually thought was done well and didn't sound like a distorted mess. That said, I'm always willing to be wrong. If there's one out there, send it.
@@warpacademy like i mentioned in my other comment, i forgot to mention that i was talking about momentary lufs (around -1 or 2), which is still can be achieved without sounding crappy, and it is quite annoying that despite you are right in "making so many compromises that you'd be completely destroying the art and music in the name of loudness", the track which is not this "loud" will still be considered as quiet and "not enough energy in it" by labels all the time and in the end of the day, if you compare your stuff to the reference tracks, and EVERY one of them is waaay louder (lufs-wise), its not gonna work, thats an issue sadly
If you’re seeing tracks like this I’d like to check them out. Please send links. I’ve personally never seen dnb songs in this range. And I’ve also never heard anything north of -5 LUFS that didn’t sound like a dumpster fire of hot garbage. Prove me wrong though. I’ll listen to songs if you link me to them. Cheers!
Dude... you are so clear and well spoken. Perfect tempo ...and the examples and prepp work is just stellar, i learn so much. Cant thank you enuff. 💚 Please keep em coming. YOU are really lifting my mixing game ‼
Thank God , RUclips and other platforms are lowering the volume. 👍🏻 Pizza sound sucks. Real pizza is good. I remember the electronic music from early 90s lot of punch because of less cracking limiters. Back in the days we just turn the volume up. However, limiting wisely works.
Thanks for the insights. Yeah, loudness normalization can really help the user listening experience. Did you see RUclips is also now compressing non-musical elements of videos? They're actually processing people's voices now. It's called Stable Volume: support.google.com/youtube/answer/14106294?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid#:~:text=By%20default%2C%20stable%20volume%20is,not%20affected%20by%20this%20feature.
Drums are definitely the most common source of short easily clipped transients. Although, I have recently been putting my clipper at the beginning of the drum bus not the end. It makes sense because then you reduce the spurious peaks into other level sensitive effects like saturators and compressors. Although clipping last can work well too.
@@warpacademy perhaps at the beginning and also at the end? I will try this in a session that im currently working on. I use SIR Audio Standard Clip, do you always hard clip or do you ever soft clip? Is there any benefit to using one rather than another or is it purely a style/taste type thing?
Hey hey. I think once you've removed the micro-transients with a hard clipper, you may find that adding a second hard clipper at the end of the chain is a bit much and may start to dig in too much and dull the transient. The way I do this is I clip most individual sounds (not all) as transparently as possible, then those sounds get routed up into a sub-mix. I clip at the beginning of the sub-mix where sounds sum together. That is a key place where more micro-transients happen. Then I clip again at the master. If you need more clippers than that, you're probably going too hard and getting carried away. It's just not necessary. And yes I do soft clip for sure. It's typical for me, after the initial hard clipping stage, to add a saturator OR soft-clipper (not both) - depending on the sound. If it's a sub-mix, I usually go with saturation because I use the Black Box Analog Design HG-2M2 which allows me to work in mid-side mode. Clippers don't work like that usually. If you overuse soft-clipping or stereo saturation on a bus or master, then you can add too much saturation to the side signal, and cause the mix to lose depth and sound too closed in. I like soft clipping more on individual sounds where I want to add harmonics. Perhaps some sub-mixes, but I usually find myself wanting more control and I enjoy working in MS so I can saturate the mid separately from the side. Cheers!
-6LUFs sounds horrible on more acoustic material . Your songs are mostly sampled instruments , so -6 probably sounds fine because you know deeply what needs to be done, as the top professional you are .
I like music in my intros so it’s not just all talking head. But maybe some songs are more distracting than others. Thanks for letting me know. The voice is heavily processed for sure.
So I see you are a dnb guy. I am wondering what's your opinion on the sound of that very popular recent Chase & Status album? I personally find it absolutely disgusting in the worst way possible. Completely distorting, -3 LUFS garbage. And then YT normalizes it to -14 lol...
Hey hey. Yeah, I love dnb and I analyze many of the releases as they're coming out. Let's talk about a specific track, as albums are usually a range of material and engineering techniques. Their newest song, Backbone, sits at -3.8 LUFS-I in the drop. Listening to it, it doesn't sound horrible to me, like not unlistenable. The genre for dnb is extremely compressed. Overcompressed IMO. I do feel like they overcooked this one. You can really hear it in the drums. They have very little punch and sound like bursts of sound (especially the snares) rather than punchy transient impacts. Songs in this loudness range are fatiguing to listen to IMO, with very little in the way of macro or micro dynamics that can make a bass music song interesting. I think their level of loudness is trying to chase loudness to be competitive with other artists, and I think they've overdone it and made compromises that don't serve the song. But in terms of making tradeoffs to achieve loudness, they're doing it better than 99% of the people out there. Their song still sounds decent, but I would not have pushed it that loud. I think if you compared a loudness matched version of a -6 LUFS master to their -3.8 LUFS master, people would prefer the -6 LUFS version. That's my 2 cents. They're amazing and influential artists. Great producers and engineers.
@@warpacademy I agree, overcooked is an understatement lol… It’s just impossible to have so much vocals, bass and fat kicks and aim for -3/-4 integrated LUFS without an absolute distortion-fest. I just don’t get it, I understand some underground people being insecure and clipping everyting to death to be loud BUT when it’s done by most popular dnb artists in the scene it’s dangerous because now a shitload of kids are gonna try to sound like that :facepalm: So it needs to be said loud and clear, new C&S record sounds like shit sonic wise.
Yeah, it's extremely technical to get a loud and clear song. It takes the right tools, techniques, ear, and experience. Most people just don't have that, and so they get garbage loudness. I personally think -6 LUFS is about a loud as you can go, regardless of who you are, and get a relatively clean sounding master. I base that statement on the fact that Skrillex's Grammy-winning song, Rumble, was mastered there despite Skrillex's earlier music being in the -4 LUFS range. Why did he all of a sudden back off the loudness a bit? By "he" I mean Skrillex and the mastering engineer who did that song, Luca Pretolesi. That's something we should be curious about.
@@warpacademy When he started biting the UK dubstep sound he needed much more sub bass in the mix unlike that brostep mid range crap. And of course you know how much sub eats headroom so it’s quite hard to go below -6 without distortion. Imho -6 is way too much for sub-bass heavy music -9 would be a good compromise and a lot of UK dubstep is mastered around that. It also sound much better and punchier on a heavy soundsystem.
Good insights here. Another genre that has to have huge sub is hip hop and what you’ve said is happening there exactly. You’re seeing the biggest hip hop songs mastered to -9 on average. I think it is possible to go to -6 and stay clean but you’d better be a God of mixing and mastering. The 2024 Grammy for best electronic dance recording went to Skrillex for Rumble, mastered by Luca Pretolesi. -6 LUFS in the drop. Clean AF.
That's a very subjective thing. The amount of dynamics that sound good to one person is different to another. And it's also very different from genre to genre. In drum & bass, this song is actually quite a bit less compressed than many of the references. And if you want a good example of where people's tastes are at for bass music, then look at the 2024 Grammy winner for Best Dance / Electronic Recording - given to Skrillex, Fred Again..., and Flowdan for the song Rumble. This is at -6 LUFS in the drops, or a bit louder even.
U think im going to sit there and manually turn down the volume for every peak your out of your mind 😂 not even someone scoring a movie would do that 😂
If you think mastering engineers don’t actually do this, you’re not in touch with the industry my friend. We do. And this is part of the edge that a professional can gain when willing to put in the work. That said I do not do this on every song I work with. Sometimes I let the clipper handle it. But for really loud stuff where 0.5 dB of extra gain without limiter distortion matters, this is a big level up.
Drum and Bass is not a good material to reference real loudness mastering. More complex styles, with several instruments, several tonal and frequencies balance can make a big difference and a real challenge to get -5 dB LUFS in final mastering. Thanks.
This is an excellent reference as the song I’m mastering is in that genre. You want references to be as close to your original as possible. How loud you end up getting to in your master is complex and has so much to do with production techniques and the mix in addition to genre.
@Warp_Academy Wow bruv!!! this is THE missing piece of the puzzle for helping me get loud AND clean masters... Thank you so much!!! Now can you DELETE THIS VIDEO plz? Before everyone else finds out...
Thanks for the kind words Adam. And yes this is one of the BIG issues to understand when mixing and mastering music for clean loudness. It’s one of the most significant things that holds people back when they don’t understand it or violate this rule. Stay in touch and all the best with your music!
@@warpacademy Thank you for the reply I really appreciate it!! I've recently subscribed to your channel and I'm working through the videos so I'm sure you'll hear from me again soon!!
Pretty much all of these techniques can be done using freeware. Dont fuss over exactly which plugins I use and instead focus on the techniques. I could achieve very similar results just using some basic freeware.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by clean. I find music in that loudness range, even if it's not distorted, to be fatiguing to listen to, overcompressed sounding, and lacking in punch. But that's me. Everyone has their preferences. If you think it sounds good that loud, go for it. It's your art at the end of the day.
Oh, I didn't perceive it like that. I was just saying that the louder you go the more contained the song will feel, and the less distance there will be between quiet and loud elements. And how much of that one likes is a matter of personal preference. I noticed you're into the Grammy-winning Skrillex song Rumble from his Quest for Fire album. That song, to me, threads the needle and is the perfect contemporary example of mixing cleanly and loudly. Luca Pretolesi, who mixed and mastered it, is a genius and one of my inspirations.
@@warpacademy I master between 9 and 10 lufs between -1 and -.80. I dont master like this because of A&R's or the streaming platforms. I do it because for some reason the closer i get to -.2 the harsher it gets. I dont know but i suspect the CPU needs atleast .5 dbfs before 0 to be able and calculate the information better. I noticed that once you cross the -.5 dbfs the effects, the details in a mix gets really crappy. I process analog and digital. I have Manley Vari mu, Ssl fusion, a modified sound craft ghost mixer with SSL and tantalum electronics. Again i dont know if its true or what is going on but anything getting close to -.5 dbfs begins to harshen up and details begin to fade. Also, ive had plenty of people show me a mix they swear its awesome but in reality its super harsh. Ive seen this phenomenon more often, i think modern people have grown accustomed to this extreme harshness. I truly think a lot of engineers and music listeners have their ears messed up as a result of listening to harsh music for many years. I like my music to be smooth and silky. .5 dbfs/9lufs is not a deal breaker vs -.1/7 lufs.
Neat signal chain. I mean, if you’re processing out of the box it’s completely different. You’ll have to load your gear according to a completely different set of rules. And I agree with you about harshness in digital music. People’s preference for brighter masters is a real thing. And there’s aliasing in digital which doesn’t exist in analog. Brightness is very subjective. And if you want to create a more smooth, darker top end you can easily do that in digital at high loudness levels. Perhaps your DA converter is distorting from ISPs unless you leave a certain margin.
@@warpacademy after i mix otb i bring everything back at -6 dbfs. Then i use a volume plugin with a limiter in the master itb to bring it to no more than -.5 dbfs.
I made a video exactly for this type of comment: Loudness Trumps EVERYTHING! ruclips.net/video/UHxKQ3iIPyA/видео.html Some people mistakenly believe that once the DSPs came along that the entire world started revolving around -14 LUSFS. Myself and many other engineers have spoken extensively about why that is not the case. Stay tuned on this channel for 2 upcoming interviews with well recognized engineers where we discuss this further.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
A lot of people have asked how I did the clipping in my mix on individual tracks and sub-mixes. And how and when I use soft and hard clipping. Seeing as there was so much ground to cover I did 2 separate videos on that.
This is how I approached clipping using a special multiband soft clipper on the mix busses: I Fixed This Quiet Mix with Only ONE PLUGIN!
ruclips.net/video/wIYISOFtgB4/видео.html
And here is a 2.5 hour free end to end mixing tutorial including how I use both hard and soft clippers in my mix on individual tracks and also sub-mixes: Step-by-Step MIXING from Beginner to PRO: 2.5 Hours of Secrets, Tricks, and Pro Tips
ruclips.net/video/bj7ZNvmfRwA/видео.html
Excellent discussion. I've grown to embrace clipping as a way to control my dynamics more than heavy limiting. I think it sounds better while maintaining loudness.
Well said! I agree completely. I think limiters have their place, but in terms of controlling peak level all throughout a mix, they're not the best tool for the job. In general, most limiters are too CPU heavy with the big brains on them. Lightweight track clippers are excellent for this. And then clipping can be a great effect to keep punch and loudness, like you said. Cheers.
Thank you for making these types of informative tutorials :)
Happy to. This stuff is right at my nerd level and I love making it. Thanks for watching.
I’ve been using this technique for a while now but never understood why hard clipping sounded better. Now I do, thanks again for sharing your knowledge ❤
Right on. Glad you're getting good results with clipping. Cheers!
Thanks a lot. Not only does it start in the mix, it starts with the sound selection, so before the mix.
You got it. It all starts very early on.
And a man like Vespers. I REMEMBER THE DAY I FOUND YOU ON THE OLD WILD WEST RUclips, AND YOU CHANGED MY WORLD THAN. The capitals were intended, because I felt like I was drowning in bad misappropriated information until your brilliant videos were made known to me. Never had anyone talked about templates, top down mixing etc., at least not in an electronic music context, and although I no longer use Ableton and have switched to Studio One, I STILL follow your advice because it always works when you apply it correctly and with receipts. now I know their were others before you, but no one has left me more informed and not only feeling able to do the work and complete the task, but getting tangible results and walking away with signed music. The only comparison I could make to your breadth of knowledge and ability to discourse it in a meaningful and memorable way would be Dan Worrall , or Streaky's RUclips channels. Thank you so much for offering your insights in such a digestible way. Takes a lot of time to do these videos with such high quality and for you to offer them outside of your academy is admirable and pretty selfless, more humans would do better to be a bit alike you sir. Cheers and God Bless!
Thanks very much for taking the time to reflect back how my work has impacted you over the years. It’s quite a huge compliment to be mentioned alongside Dan Worral and Streaky, both people I respect greatly.
I appreciate the kind words and for your support over the years following the channel. Cheers and all the best with your music!
@@warpacademy
It always an extremely favorable occurrence on yt to see a genuine, heartfelt reply from a creator to a commenter.
Peace bro
Great video, each time you sum signals you get new peaks, If I want to mix loud I use a lot of busses and at each summing stage I use a clipper eventually to get rid of those peaks before hitting my masterbus compressor.
The clip to zero technique is really interesting if you want to mix loud as f*
Absolutely. You’re right that new peaks are created at each summing point. It’s a best practice for sure to use submixes / busses and process at that level as well. I’ll have a video on that soon.
In terms of CTZ, it has some great insights about workflow and clippers. Good stuff.
finally someone with some actual know how explains it, thank you.
Cheers mate! Glad you enjoyed this one. All the best.
Ok wow, I’m impressed with how well you explain things. Must be a first here on YT… and I’ve seen many videos! Quality content, keep it up! Thumbs up for what I’ve seen so far…👍
Glad it was helpful! I certainly try to explain things in a productive way. Subscribe and stay in touch!
I love this! Very nicely explained and executed, mate. Bless!
Thank you kindly!
I learned a lot from your channel man .. i'm currently in the process of mastering my album right now thanks to you and a few others here on RUclips .. i learned soooo much from this channel so i just wanted to stop by to say THANK YOU !! Wanted to give you your flowers asap ! It wouldn't have been possible without the knowledge i gain from you and your channel .. so again .. THANK YOU ... Btw my album is sounding AMAZING so far 😎
Right on mate. Super stoked to hear that. Props on the album project; that's a big and significant undertaking. Join up in our Discord server (link in the video description) and stay in touch. Cheers!
I fought the clipping thing but I do see the benefit as you get down the mix and mastering phase. I love my drums to be punchy but that always leads to some of these peaks. Now that I tame them every so slightly with bx_clipper, my limiter is not struggling near as much.
For sure. That’s a huge benefit. Now try clipping each individual drum vs doing it on the bus or master. It will be way cleaner. And because the clipper introduced a small splash of distortion you won’t even miss the level in the transient because the drums will actually sound louder and punchier with clipping than with higher peak level. It’s a beautiful thing.
Just find the sweet spot and don’t clip them too much.
Great info...Love how you appear to hold nothing back. Curious what tracks you like to reference for different genre's? Is that on the website?
Thanks! Which genre are you most interested in?
@@warpacademy Future house, Jackin, half time, 140, Left Field. Will take all recommendations and just buy the waves off of Beatport. I would like to send you one as well that stood out to me and mastered by I believe Chris Alexander.
Sweet. I mostly don’t work in those genres so I’d be relying on artist references there. But for half time I’d use Ivy Lab stuff. Magikess is good.
Very helpful!!!
Glad to hear that. All the best!
Studio is looking sweet Drew, and great content as usual. Shoutout from Holland. Cheers, Durk
Durk! Man, long time no see. So nice to hear from you. Would love to catch up man. Sending ya lots of hi fives from Canada.
@@warpacademy I’ll shoot you an email to set up a call to catch up, been too long indeed!
Let's do that! I'd love to connect and talk. @kooistradurk
Love the effort put into your voice in intro. can hear huge difference to how your voice sound when you share ableton screen part.
Also love that your examples are DnB songs because Im currently doing this type of DnB tracks a lot and it helps me somewhat better.
I appreciate that!
So I would have liked to know what you did on a mix level to reduce those transient bursts. Or what can be done if you are the producer and have access to all the tracks in the mix.
Do you add a soft clipper to the track? Or a hard clipper? Or what?
Thanks
Absolutely. That is the logical question. Because there was so much ground to cover I did that in separate videos.
This is how I approached clipping using a special multiband soft clipper on the mix busses: I Fixed This Quiet Mix with Only ONE PLUGIN!
ruclips.net/video/wIYISOFtgB4/видео.html
And here is a 2.5 hour free end to end mixing tutorial including how I use both hard and soft clippers in my mix on individual tracks and also sub-mixes: Step-by-Step MIXING from Beginner to PRO: 2.5 Hours of Secrets, Tricks, and Pro Tips
ruclips.net/video/bj7ZNvmfRwA/видео.html
Definitely NOT too much mate, its such a nice, smooth intriguing tune. Really grabs the ears
Glad you enjoy it too!
Superprofessional video and a great very clear teacher! Subscribed before watching to the end :) Yay 🎉
Welcome aboard! Thanks for subscribing. See you around the channel!
Hi. What to do if you’re getting -7.6 lufs and red color with Span a +3.3db true peak? I need a true peak of 0 to -2 right? So Gain adjust down 3.3db? Or what else to keep dynamics etc…? It’s too loud. For Spotify distrokid. ..
Hey hey. Good question. I would venture a guess and say that you're pushing your limiter way too hard and getting too much gain reduction in your mastering phase, creating distortion. It's hard to know for sure without seeing your mastering chain and hearing your mix.
In general though, most people pushing for loud masters (-9 LUFS or louder) do too much with the mastering chain because they haven't learned how to get their mixes loud enough in the first place. My mixes are -10 LUFS / -11 LUFS before I even start mastering, which means my mastering limiter is doing 2 dB of gain reduction in most cases.
To see a masterclass on how work (and how to get loudness from your mix, not your master), check these videos out (all free):
My mix template - how I route things for clean, loud mixes: ruclips.net/video/cnQC0146TZg/видео.html
A full 2.5 hour deep mixing session: ruclips.net/video/bj7ZNvmfRwA/видео.html
Oh, and regarding your true peak level - yeah +3.3 is way over the top. You'll definitely need to back off your limiter and rein those in.
I would ensure you're using 4X oversampling in your limiter, likely use more lookahead than you're using because it's likely you're generating a ton of distortion, and back off the gain into the limiter.
Watch this video I just posted about setting up limiters: ruclips.net/video/_HiDh7n6TaU/видео.html
@@warpacademy I didn’t use or get to the limiter yet. It’s an older two track no stems. I tried EQ just now, should I just reduce gain with izone free EQ 11 vocal preset, -2.9bd gets true peak to -1 and lufs to 10.5 reading meter in voxengo span? My fab filter L doesn’t have place to reduce gain on left side and true peak reduction right side called tpdb or something, doesn’t work it’s still at plus 3.
@@warpacademy so I used izone 11 EQ -3db seems to solve it but... it it’s just one ”two track” and I might add second vocal track for doubles in the Edm house drop. I stopped EQ instead used and tried the Utilites plug-in now and I got -13lufs and -1db truepeak. So Which of those two ways is better? EQ or utilies plug-in ableton? So my track is basically the master already! probably it was bounced compressed and mastered last year and I forgot about it. ‘) is dropping those one track fader is the same as utility plugin in this one track case? can there be dither and bit depth issues involved? Distortion, squashing? . Instead putting on one track can I put the Utilites plug-in on the master and just turn down the output, won’t it kill my mix? Txs
Hey hey. I help as much as I can on RUclips but these are some really specific and technical questions. No way I can answer this stuff without seeing your session or loading it up inside my DAW and analyzing the song. For that you’d need to hire me to consult or mix your project, which you’re welcome to do on my site: vespers.ca. I’ll help if I can. Cheers!
Great video , you helped me alot
Glad to hear that! Wishing you all the best with your music.
How do i find those peaks in the mixing phase? You mean to use clipper on sounds that’s really peaky?
Yes exactly. I use track clippers to transparently hard clip many individual sounds in my mix, and then I also typically clip or limit my sub-mixes before going to the 2 bus.
@@warpacademy by “sub mixes” you mean you limit the low end? And you just hard clip any sounds with spikey transient? Like hats,snare,kick ..? Or other sound to
Oh, by sub-mixes I mean busses. I use a detailed set of busses in my mixing, such as Hi End Percussion, Low End Percussion. Kicks, Snares, All Drums, Midrange Synths, Bass, Sub, FX, Vocals, Ducking, All Returns.
They give me many layers of control, with clipping another aspects of mixing.
A ton of information, many thanks
Glad it was helpful!
studio looking crazy
Cheers! Such a wonderful room to work in.
Great video zooming in on the samples. Brought some understanding. Do you have any videos on Normalization and when to use and not use?
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed this one. Regarding normalization, I actually just published a video where I discuss that in my mastering prep process: ruclips.net/video/xzujAhDVg6w/видео.html
Remember in SoundForge when we could paint directly in the wav file. Is this possible via any plugins?
Hey Christian. It's been a minute since I used SoundForge so I don't recall. But you can definitely do this (adjusting sample points) in iZotope RX stand alone Audio Editor. Not sure if that's what you meant. Cheers.
Excellent stuff mate, very grateful man!
Thanks!
Vespers is the man for audio. Listen to what he has to say.
Glad you think so. Thanks very much.
Thanks for all of these Mastering Workshops 🍻🔊
Glad you like them! Cheers!
if you focus on quality - what is strongly recommended for the future - then one of the most important tasks is to end this mindless loudness war. to take part of the loudness-war, you are reducing your target group more and more and more every year.
but in the meantime, it can be observed with many colleagues that they themselves are making their hearing worse and worse by getting used to the inferior quality that this produces. so, this is the importend task. the creator has to make better decisions before the target group can do.
Thanks for sharing your perspectives. Interestingly, the 2024 Grammy for Best Electronic / Dance Recording was given to Skrillex for the song Rumble, which was mastered by multi-Grammy nominated and winning engineer Luca Pretolesi to a little hotter than -6 LUFS in the drops. So the industry has made it pretty clear that (clean, well-engineered) loudness and quality can co-exist, at least up to a point. The key is to engineer the music in such a way that you don't get garbage loudness.
What kind of loop samples would help you speed up your beat-making process?
Maybe someone else can answer this? I don’t tent to use loops.
Hello, very good. Do you set limitless, up with the bands set up on the way the track falls, as in low-end, kick drum,
They look like they are set to specific areas in the waveform.
Thanks again.
Hey hey. Glad you enjoyed this one. I actually often leave the bands at default. You can also remove bands to simplify things if you want.
Some controls that are very significant in Limitless are the band Separation control, which governs how multiband the behavior is. And Weighting is also very important as it controls how much GR is applied to the bass vs upper frequencies. Cheers!
Yeah but is it really necessary to boost the low mids in your voice?
Its really hard to take you seriously when Im listening to you talk about it and your voice eq is actually distracting me from what you are saying. This is a video about sound right?
Hey Ian. I'm always experimenting with EQ settings. And I definitely appreciate well-intentioned feedback. I admittedly did overdo the low end EQ in some videos, and I'm backing that off now.
Now this type of vibe in feedback is really unnecessary. I invite constructive feedback and I'm open to it, but there's no need to be condescending. If you choose to stick around the channel, and I hope you do, I'll invite you to rethink that approach. I know things are frustrating sometimes, especially when they seem like big oversights, but let's keep in mind that everyone on RUclips is creating content that you get to watch for free, which you would otherwise have to pay for. Comment, yes! Feedback, yes! Keep the vibe friendly.
thank you for these tutorials, very interesting info
Glad you like them!
Gosh, 10 minutes “everyone make mistake, my mix is good……” to 3 second shaving peaks with hard clipping advice …. commercial for advice. Glad to see YT advanced form content like this for the most part.
Thanks
the explanation is important, and what he talks about really matters for the loudness actually
@@algorix8420 important but could be compress or clipped from the unnecessary. sorry for the pun 😄 since than i came across some real good explanations, with examples, and fun talk on the subject. now i dunno what i was even doing with my life w/o standard clip 😎 and keeping research on the subject
-5 LUFS in mainstream pop is not at all common any more. I'd say we're in the -8 LUFS range now (maybe -7 short term).
I agree with pop - it's closer to -8. That's why I said there's a range and it applies to pop, hip hop, and electronic music. In dub step and drum & bass, it's common to see -4 to -6. In hip hop and pop it's less loud, but still very loud. -8 is typical.
I analyzed over 100 drum & bass references of modern releases, and the average level in drops is -4 to -5 LUFS. Seeing as this song is a drum & bass tune, I used that loudness range for the master.
@@warpacademyindeed dnb is still around -4 to -5 LUFs and some crazy mofos from the Netherlands ;) managed to go even beyond that with a clean mix… but Noisia are just different
Excellent explanation.
Does it then mean that in your mixing project, so during mixing, you would put a clipper/limiter plugin on every individual track, as well as on each group/bus track ?
If not, why not ?
If I’m mixing for maximum loudness, like in say a drum and bass track, then I could transparently hard clip nearly every sound except the sub and vocals, I wouldn’t clip the returns either. Nearly everything else.
And yes I would clip a touch (not very much) at each summing point. So busses yes. Master yes.
I usually would use non oversampled hard clipping. But in some cases I use a limiter or even manual gain adjustment by hand.
I tend to use a limiter on my sub (a slower transparent limiter) and vocals.
And I may use a clipper into a limiter on some busses. You have to be really careful not to kill the punch and all the dynamics. So less is more sometimes and there’s an art to doing it right.
Otherwise you get a mess of over compressed garbage.
Sweet video. So would you put the clipper on and then bounce that so you can see the new waveform?
Glad you enjoyed the video. Actually, I prep the mix first in iZotope RX Audio Editor and I handle all the highest peaks manually using gain rendering. I have a video coming up about that mastering prep process very soon. Stay tuned.
Once that's done, I set Gold Clip first in chain usually to handle a few dB of clipping on the remaining peaks (which are much more even now after the iZotope RX manual limiting process).
Hope that makes sense. Cheers!
@@warpacademy when you say mix in RX, so it’s a bounced out file? I didn’t think RX could do multitrack?
@@warpacademy oh you mean you export stems and open each stem in RX individually?
Hey Paul. I export the entire mix, and then process that in RX doing the peak level manual gain / manual limiting. So it's a single stereo file.
For handling micro-peaks on individual tracks and busses in the mix, I use clipping.
Also, once the entire mix is processed in RX, I import it into the DAW for the mastering session, where I clip it again with Gold Clip (first in chain) if I'm mastering really loud, like in this case. Cheers!
@@warpacademy thanks so much I’m going to try it out
Do you have any videos on properly reading spectral plugins?
I don't have a video on how to properly read them, but what I do is compare the spectrum of reference tracks to my mix using this technique: ruclips.net/video/wSizHvzC4Yg/видео.html
Just trying to confirm something... In the 'What techniques did I use?" segment, you mention that performing gain operations on micro transients is not recommended on an entire master, do it in the mix. However in one of your recent videos, (Before mastering, I do this) you mention doing this prior to mastering via Izotope RX. Could you perhaps elaborate on this? Does it depend on how heavy handed / how long the duration of the change is? Love the videos, great content! Thank you!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Yes I realize that’s a bit confusing so let me clarify. The big mistake with many people is leaving all the peaks totally unattended through mixing and ramming them all into a limiter during mastering. That makes for a garbage master usually with distortion and artifacts.
What I do is clip and handle transients all through the mix, on individual sounds and busses. Then I use RX to shape the mix manually (like you saw in my “Before Mastering I Do This” video). Each summing point creates micro-transients. This way I can handle them with zero distortion and artifacts.
Then I run the mastering chain on the cleaned up RX pre-master.
Now, there are many scenarios where I’m not the mixer. I’m only mastering. Like in that recent video. So there was no clipping used in the mix and all the micro- transients were in the stereo mix export. In that case I use RX more heavily to clean them up so my mastering chain doesn’t freak out and work too hard.
As you saw in my most recent mastering video “How to Master a Song Start to Finish”, I was only just tickling the master limiter a couple dB due to the fact that RX had done a bunch of the work using manual gain.
Hope that helps understand the process a bit more. Cheers!
@@warpacademy It does! Appreciate the response, thank you!
Right on. Cheers!
After seeing this video I'm feeling pretty good with my skills since I have no problem reaching -7 or -6 LUFS without distortion. I've heard recent releases like the latest Rolling Stones album, or Olivia Rodrigo, which goes as high as -5 LUFS. Now there's a challenge!.
Congrats on clean engineering. Don’t push it unless there’s a really good reason. I did this because that’s where drum and bass songs are mastered to on every major label. -5 is loud AF for sure.
@@warpacademy well the -5 standard for dnb was years ago, we are closer now to -1.5 lol
@@TheAcreDnB maybe some songs? I analyze drum & bass all the time and I'm seeing -4 to -5 LUFS integrated in the drops. Are you talking about short term or momentary perhaps? RMS?
Link to some songs if you want. I'd be curious to hear them.
@@warpacademy yeah sorry, momentary, not long term, i forgot to mention
audio - marauder for example, or the clamps - conviction, these two mfs are hitting -1.6 momentary easily :D
@@warpacademy ruclips.net/video/ytfMfhsZJ3g/видео.html
this onefor example
errrrm silly unrelated question :D Can you link the zipper jacket you are wearing? :D The cut looks interesting I likte it
Hey hey. Glad you like it. This jacket is actually custom Warp Academy apparel that we only provide to instructors. Maybe in the future we'll make ones available for members too. Cheers!
I limit before the processing chain to shave off such peaks, and then a cascade of limiters/clippers at the end of the chain - instead trying to remix the whole thing lol
Sounds like you've been watching some Baphometrix ;)
Do you have any tips on how you manage your dynamics as you use a hard clipper on each individual elements? How do you measure "the bigger dynamic picture" as you go along? Do you have SPAN on the master and occasionally check this to see how the dynamics are in total?
And for the clipping itself - is it more of a "if it sounds good, it probably is", or are you mainly looking to flatten the worst peaks for most of everything?
Thanks for great insight btw. subscribed.
Hey hey. Thanks for subscribing. I do use SPAN but not for dynamics monitoring. For that I gauge it by ear.
It is certainly possible to over clip and limit sounds if you’re not careful. Sometimes I use clippers in parallel, for instance on the main drum buss after all the individual drums have been hard clipped.
I clip as much as the sound can take while still retaining perceived punch in a clean way. Also carefully adjusted by ear.
@@warpacademy Thanks for the swift reply. So you try not to add clippers to everything per say, it's more of a selective process and where it is needed. I see some people clip on the masters before the limiter as well, so I was just curious as to what's the more beneficial way of doing it and not over-doing it. Will do some experimenting. Thanks again for good content :)
You're welcome. Yes, keep in mind that a clipper is a distortion device first and foremost. It reduces peak level as a side-effect, but it will always make distortion. So I rarely clip vocals, sub, or delicate sustained sounds like pads or keys.
Limiting on the other hand controls dynamic range first and foremost and only creates distortion as a side-effect if you push it too far. Most of the time limiting doesn't create distortion, unless you zero out lookahead and use a very fast release.
So for the aforementioned sounds (vocals, sub, pads, keys) try limiting first if you need to contain dynamic range, not clipping.
Regarding clipping before the limiter, yes this is common approach. Although lately I've been putting the clipper first in chain, and the limiter last. Clipping first in chain is a great move when you want to reduce spurious peaks into gain-sensitive mastering effects between the clipper and limiter (IE saturation, compression, dynamic EQ).
Cheers!
Fabulous content
Cheers mate. Thanks for being a subscriber!
nice video bruh
That man vespers is a legend
Cheers mate.
My question is, how do you get rid of the high samples volume that are barely audible during the mix if you don't get to see the resulting waveform? I already do what is talked about in the video, but I just use my ear and try to do light clipping, like up to 2 db maximum on single tracks; it's kind of working for me already but I feel like I'm not so intentional and mindful yet
Hey hey. This is my process for doing it on the master: Before Mastering I Do THIS…✅
ruclips.net/video/xzujAhDVg6w/видео.html
On individual tracks I have them as audio so I can visualize the peaks or I use a waveform scope like an oscilloscope. Usually I have a clipper up that uses a waveform display like K-Clip or Gold Clip.
In regards to your 2 dB of clipping comment. Some sounds can take much more than that. It depends on the sample. It’s not uncommon for me to clip a snare like 4-6 dB. Unless it’s already a mastered snare from a sample pack. In that case I may not clip it at all ;)
Hope that helps. Cheers!
@@warpacademy thank you for the answer, really helpful
You got it :)
Awesome 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Hey Drew, back watching for a third time. Great content man. I have a question for you. Are there any books you would recommend to read to help people on their musical journey? To help with the technical side of things or the industry itself. You suggested before 'Atomic Habits', grateful for that one. Also have you thought about setting up Patreon? I'd gladly contribute after how much you have helped me and many others.
Thanks man
Hey Ryan. Thanks for the kind words man! Means a lot to hear from you.
For mixing I wouldn’t recommend any books, but I would def recommend watching all of Luca Pretolesi and David Gnozzi’s videos on Mymixlab and MixbusTV respectively. They are amazing mixers. No book will ever be able to teach what you experience with your ears.
Regarding personal development though, I have so many book recommendations it’d make your head spin. Chop Wood, Carry Water. Start there. You think it’s a kids book maybe but then you will realize it’s deep stuff.
To make more detailed recommendations I’d need to get to know you better and hear about your goals. You can always inquire about booking a consult with me via my vespers.ca site.
Regarding Patreon, thanks for the offer of support! I am actually in the process of setting up something like that. It’ll be a simple monthly donation via Warp Academy and not on Patreon as they take a cut. I’m deciding on what to set the price at though. Could you let me know what a comfortable amount would be for sometime like yourself as a monthly amount? Cheers!
@@warpacademy Hey man thanks a lot for the time taken to give a detailed reply. Perfect i'll make my way through the videos! Love quality content, so helpful.
I was actually looking at your coaching packages on your site the other day. Maybe an initial consult would be the way forward. Thanks for that i'll look into it.
Well, I cant speak for anybody else but in my current financial position, being a bedroom producer trying to work as little as possible.. I would spend $50 a month on knowledge for sure. I mean i'm not sure what the going rate is so i could be way off. Im pretty sure whatever you set, the people that really want to make it in thie industry will pay it. I know i will.
Thanks again man, talk soon
Cheers Ryan! And thanks for the feedback about the membership tiers. Actually, we already have a membership tier called Plus that's $29 a month if you pay annually, or $39 a month if paid monthly. If you feel so inclined, it would be gratefully received to have you sign up.
warpacademy.com/membership-account/membership-plans/
I have a maybe stupid question: Wouldn't it work on the whole Mix if you had a very fast Limiter (or some offline process), that could just look for these mini peaks and turn them down?
All questions are welcome. What you’re describing is a clipper. A very fast processor that turns down samples. A clipper is a form of limiter with zero attack and release time and a brick wall.
But it generates distortion. So do limiters but limiters use a big brain to try and avoid that. At the expense of making transients sound dull sometimes.
I use both! Know the tools and where and when to use them.
yes it would work. when you are mastering your audio file clip away 2-4db after that push the limiter as hard as it allows you to.
Very good! 👍
Thanks for the visit
Who wants " in your face" result. I like depth in mixes. Dynamic range. A difference between drums, bass, guitars and the leadsinger up front in the mix✌️
To each their own. It’s a stylistic and genre specific sound. Which I expect doesn’t apply to what you’re into. Seems like you’re talking about band stuff? I’m not. Also depth and a loud in your face sound can exist at the same time. Depth staging can be done well in a loud mix but a lot of loud mixes and masters can sound closed in, you’re right. Especially if they’re using saturation the wrong way.
Difference between instruments in a mix =\= overall dynamics
Thanks for chiming in on this @kooistradurk
…and than put your Cowboyboots on and squaredance around your bed…
Yes, this obsession for loudness is non sense
Thanks. Best/Mathias
You're most welcome. Thanks for watching and being a subscriber.
All my music always hovers at -1 db and no more than 10 lufs.
Perhaps much of the music on DSPs like Spotify. But outside of that realm, and especially in anything from the field of electronic music, masters are being done much louder. Even on Spotify, most pop masters are being done at -8 LUFS, and in electronic / dance music they're being done at -4 to -6 LUFS.
The 2024 Grammy winner for best electronic / dance recording (Rumble, Skrillex / FlowDan / Fred Again) was mastered to -6 LUFS.
I'd suggest you watch this: ruclips.net/video/UHxKQ3iIPyA/видео.html
Three things I have learned the hard way - 1. As Chris Lord Alge once said "How much bus compression?" A: "As little as I can get away with" 2. Spectral balance is HUGE because spectral balance will give your track smoothness as it gets louder. 3. Know the Fletcher-Munson curve and understand where loudness lives in the spectrum. This was written before watching this video. Let's see if we are saying the same things. EDIT: Great video! And great channel! Subbed - I will be checking out your thoughts. So, your emphasis of crest factor, and use of clipping is related to the compression comment. I also use clippers at the instrument group level, especially on drums. My genre is rock, hard rock, metal and prog rock. So great point there. And you also mentioned spectral balance which is so important. Obviously, you don't want to ruin the feel of the track to achieve total balance, but you want to get as much balance as you can which gives not only perceived (and actual) loudness, but also smoothness. This was a great video - the highlight of my day, and now I have an experiment I want to try!
Right on. Thanks for the comment and for joining as a subscriber! I'll respond to your points:
1) "As little as I can get away with" - For me, I'm a very different mixer than CLA. I mix loud electronic bass music. I don't use bus compression - like AT ALL. I use saturation, clipping, limiting, and gain shaping via transient shapers. All of those things do the same job as bus compression, which is why I don't need to reach for it (glue, crest factor reduction, increasing perceptual loudness, introducing harmonic density, inflating low level material). I'm also more in the camp of "as much as I can get away with" vs. "as little as I can get away with" because the artists I work with want MEGA loud masters.
2) Spectral balance: Yes. If you want music that sounds good when played at 100 db SPL and up, you need to carefully attend to this.
3) Although they were a key and respected part of the initial research in this area, Fletcher-Munson curves are no longer considered accurate. They've been replaced by ISO226:2003 Equal Loudness Contours which are based on newer research and are considered more accurate. LUFS measurement standards also have equal loudness contours which differ from the old Fletcher & Munson curves. And, at the same time, I totally get what you're saying. You need to understand and cater to how the human auditory system perceives loudness, and how that relates to different frequencies and sound pressure levels.
I discuss this in quite a bit of detail in this video about sub: ruclips.net/video/bRmPK3d9Cmw/видео.html.
I'm glad you liked this video and it's been nice to connect in the comments. I hope to see you around the channel. Cheers!
more awesome stuff
Cheers! Thanks for watching.
Nice, a bit of DnB, my fave! 😍
Cheers! I love the tune. It was produced by DUSKO (Sam Winter & Daniel Cowart) and was made 100% with samples and Serum presets from our Darkside Funk soundbank at Warp Academy.
@@warpacademy Cool, sounds dope!
Thanks, I'll pass that on.
pls do one on how to achieve a relatively clean -2 or even -1 plssss
You're talking about how to get a relatively clean -2 to -1 LUFS master? If so, I'll have to weigh in with some tough love here and say that's absolute insanity. First of all, there's no need for that, even in the loudest genres played in DJ sets. Second, you'd be making so many compromises that you'd be completely destroying the art and music in the name of loudness. It is conceivable to get quite a clean sounding -5 to -6 using some really tight engineering tricks, but much beyond that and there's only one main way of pushing louder, and that's to sacrifice bass. I've never heard a -4 LUFS or beyond track from anyone that I actually thought was done well and didn't sound like a distorted mess. That said, I'm always willing to be wrong. If there's one out there, send it.
@@warpacademy like i mentioned in my other comment, i forgot to mention that i was talking about momentary lufs (around -1 or 2), which is still can be achieved without sounding crappy, and it is quite annoying that despite you are right in "making so many compromises that you'd be completely destroying the art and music in the name of loudness", the track which is not this "loud" will still be considered as quiet and "not enough energy in it" by labels all the time and in the end of the day, if you compare your stuff to the reference tracks, and EVERY one of them is waaay louder (lufs-wise), its not gonna work, thats an issue sadly
@@warpacademy hitting -2 is yeah, too much, but we can shove up the clean and dynamic tracks in our asses sadly, bc this is not the standard
If you’re seeing tracks like this I’d like to check them out. Please send links.
I’ve personally never seen dnb songs in this range. And I’ve also never heard anything north of -5 LUFS that didn’t sound like a dumpster fire of hot garbage.
Prove me wrong though. I’ll listen to songs if you link me to them. Cheers!
tbproaudio lax 4
Dude... you are so clear and well spoken. Perfect tempo ...and the examples and prepp work is just stellar, i learn so much. Cant thank you enuff. 💚 Please keep em coming. YOU are really lifting my mixing game ‼
I appreciate that! Thanks for visiting the channel. Stay in touch and all the best with your mixes.
Thank God , RUclips and other platforms are lowering the volume. 👍🏻 Pizza sound sucks. Real pizza is good. I remember the electronic music from early 90s lot of punch because of less cracking limiters. Back in the days we just turn the volume up. However, limiting wisely works.
Thanks for the insights. Yeah, loudness normalization can really help the user listening experience. Did you see RUclips is also now compressing non-musical elements of videos? They're actually processing people's voices now. It's called Stable Volume: support.google.com/youtube/answer/14106294?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid#:~:text=By%20default%2C%20stable%20volume%20is,not%20affected%20by%20this%20feature.
always put a clipper at the end of drum buss
Drums are definitely the most common source of short easily clipped transients. Although, I have recently been putting my clipper at the beginning of the drum bus not the end. It makes sense because then you reduce the spurious peaks into other level sensitive effects like saturators and compressors. Although clipping last can work well too.
@@warpacademy perhaps at the beginning and also at the end? I will try this in a session that im currently working on. I use SIR Audio Standard Clip, do you always hard clip or do you ever soft clip? Is there any benefit to using one rather than another or is it purely a style/taste type thing?
Hey hey. I think once you've removed the micro-transients with a hard clipper, you may find that adding a second hard clipper at the end of the chain is a bit much and may start to dig in too much and dull the transient.
The way I do this is I clip most individual sounds (not all) as transparently as possible, then those sounds get routed up into a sub-mix. I clip at the beginning of the sub-mix where sounds sum together. That is a key place where more micro-transients happen.
Then I clip again at the master. If you need more clippers than that, you're probably going too hard and getting carried away. It's just not necessary.
And yes I do soft clip for sure. It's typical for me, after the initial hard clipping stage, to add a saturator OR soft-clipper (not both) - depending on the sound. If it's a sub-mix, I usually go with saturation because I use the Black Box Analog Design HG-2M2 which allows me to work in mid-side mode. Clippers don't work like that usually. If you overuse soft-clipping or stereo saturation on a bus or master, then you can add too much saturation to the side signal, and cause the mix to lose depth and sound too closed in.
I like soft clipping more on individual sounds where I want to add harmonics. Perhaps some sub-mixes, but I usually find myself wanting more control and I enjoy working in MS so I can saturate the mid separately from the side.
Cheers!
-6LUFs sounds horrible on more acoustic material . Your songs are mostly sampled instruments , so -6 probably sounds fine because you know deeply what needs to be done, as the top professional you are .
Thanks for the comment! Yes this lends itself more to the music in my domain like electronic and hip hop or pop. All the best and happy music making!
The background music until 2:09 is sort of distracting.... also your voice sounds somewhat "fake". (Just something for you to check) 🙂
I like music in my intros so it’s not just all talking head. But maybe some songs are more distracting than others. Thanks for letting me know.
The voice is heavily processed for sure.
you talk like the playing speed is at x1.25 but i like it
Ha! Lots to get through. And I’m usually quite caffeinated.
So I see you are a dnb guy. I am wondering what's your opinion on the sound of that very popular recent Chase & Status album? I personally find it absolutely disgusting in the worst way possible. Completely distorting, -3 LUFS garbage. And then YT normalizes it to -14 lol...
Hey hey. Yeah, I love dnb and I analyze many of the releases as they're coming out. Let's talk about a specific track, as albums are usually a range of material and engineering techniques. Their newest song, Backbone, sits at -3.8 LUFS-I in the drop.
Listening to it, it doesn't sound horrible to me, like not unlistenable. The genre for dnb is extremely compressed. Overcompressed IMO. I do feel like they overcooked this one. You can really hear it in the drums. They have very little punch and sound like bursts of sound (especially the snares) rather than punchy transient impacts.
Songs in this loudness range are fatiguing to listen to IMO, with very little in the way of macro or micro dynamics that can make a bass music song interesting. I think their level of loudness is trying to chase loudness to be competitive with other artists, and I think they've overdone it and made compromises that don't serve the song. But in terms of making tradeoffs to achieve loudness, they're doing it better than 99% of the people out there. Their song still sounds decent, but I would not have pushed it that loud.
I think if you compared a loudness matched version of a -6 LUFS master to their -3.8 LUFS master, people would prefer the -6 LUFS version. That's my 2 cents.
They're amazing and influential artists. Great producers and engineers.
@@warpacademy I agree, overcooked is an understatement lol… It’s just impossible to have so much vocals, bass and fat kicks and aim for -3/-4 integrated LUFS without an absolute distortion-fest.
I just don’t get it, I understand some underground people being insecure and clipping everyting to death to be loud BUT when it’s done by most popular dnb artists in the scene it’s dangerous because now a shitload of kids are gonna try to sound like that :facepalm:
So it needs to be said loud and clear, new C&S record sounds like shit sonic wise.
Yeah, it's extremely technical to get a loud and clear song. It takes the right tools, techniques, ear, and experience. Most people just don't have that, and so they get garbage loudness.
I personally think -6 LUFS is about a loud as you can go, regardless of who you are, and get a relatively clean sounding master. I base that statement on the fact that Skrillex's Grammy-winning song, Rumble, was mastered there despite Skrillex's earlier music being in the -4 LUFS range.
Why did he all of a sudden back off the loudness a bit? By "he" I mean Skrillex and the mastering engineer who did that song, Luca Pretolesi. That's something we should be curious about.
@@warpacademy When he started biting the UK dubstep sound he needed much more sub bass in the mix unlike that brostep mid range crap. And of course you know how much sub eats headroom so it’s quite hard to go below -6 without distortion. Imho -6 is way too much for sub-bass heavy music -9 would be a good compromise and a lot of UK dubstep is mastered around that. It also sound much better and punchier on a heavy soundsystem.
Good insights here. Another genre that has to have huge sub is hip hop and what you’ve said is happening there exactly. You’re seeing the biggest hip hop songs mastered to -9 on average.
I think it is possible to go to -6 and stay clean but you’d better be a God of mixing and mastering. The 2024 Grammy for best electronic dance recording went to Skrillex for Rumble, mastered by Luca Pretolesi. -6 LUFS in the drop. Clean AF.
Can we all just appreciate how beautiful that studio is and how much it needs a couch?
It sure does need a couch. Coming soon!
💯💯💯💯💯
Cheers!
Lies. You can put 5 sound goodizers with limiter turned to 100 per cent and achive good mix
Ha! Isn't that what mastering engineers do? ;)
This could fit into RUclips shorts :)
Sure thing. Here's the 1 minute version: ruclips.net/user/shortsPDeESCqv-K4?feature=share
One loses musical dynamics with this.
That's a very subjective thing. The amount of dynamics that sound good to one person is different to another. And it's also very different from genre to genre. In drum & bass, this song is actually quite a bit less compressed than many of the references. And if you want a good example of where people's tastes are at for bass music, then look at the 2024 Grammy winner for Best Dance / Electronic Recording - given to Skrillex, Fred Again..., and Flowdan for the song Rumble. This is at -6 LUFS in the drops, or a bit louder even.
U think im going to sit there and manually turn down the volume for every peak your out of your mind 😂 not even someone scoring a movie would do that 😂
If you think mastering engineers don’t actually do this, you’re not in touch with the industry my friend. We do. And this is part of the edge that a professional can gain when willing to put in the work.
That said I do not do this on every song I work with. Sometimes I let the clipper handle it. But for really loud stuff where 0.5 dB of extra gain without limiter distortion matters, this is a big level up.
Drum and Bass is not a good material to reference real loudness mastering. More complex styles, with several instruments, several tonal and frequencies balance can make a big difference and a real challenge to get -5 dB LUFS in final mastering. Thanks.
This is an excellent reference as the song I’m mastering is in that genre. You want references to be as close to your original as possible.
How loud you end up getting to in your master is complex and has so much to do with production techniques and the mix in addition to genre.
Dude ...
@Warp_Academy Wow bruv!!! this is THE missing piece of the puzzle for helping me get loud AND clean masters... Thank you so much!!! Now can you DELETE THIS VIDEO plz? Before everyone else finds out...
Thanks for the kind words Adam. And yes this is one of the BIG issues to understand when mixing and mastering music for clean loudness. It’s one of the most significant things that holds people back when they don’t understand it or violate this rule.
Stay in touch and all the best with your music!
@@warpacademy Thank you for the reply I really appreciate it!! I've recently subscribed to your channel and I'm working through the videos so I'm sure you'll hear from me again soon!!
Thanks for subscribing.
Excuse us, we don’t have 700000000.- to spend on plugins
Pretty much all of these techniques can be done using freeware. Dont fuss over exactly which plugins I use and instead focus on the techniques. I could achieve very similar results just using some basic freeware.
i do about -4 lufs and for the very Heavy stuff i do about -2 lufs well i make very Heavy bass music tbh no cap
I can kinda imagine that ultra distorted (on purpose) kind of almost experimental noise style.
@@Ace_of_DiscaL yup your right 👍
Do you have music published? If so send links. I’d love to check it out.
I’m -1
Still clean 😌
I suppose it depends on what you mean by clean. I find music in that loudness range, even if it's not distorted, to be fatiguing to listen to, overcompressed sounding, and lacking in punch. But that's me. Everyone has their preferences. If you think it sounds good that loud, go for it. It's your art at the end of the day.
@@warpacademy ❤️❤️ of course brother.. don’t get me wrong.. I didn’t say I’m better than you…
Oh, I didn't perceive it like that. I was just saying that the louder you go the more contained the song will feel, and the less distance there will be between quiet and loud elements. And how much of that one likes is a matter of personal preference. I noticed you're into the Grammy-winning Skrillex song Rumble from his Quest for Fire album. That song, to me, threads the needle and is the perfect contemporary example of mixing cleanly and loudly. Luca Pretolesi, who mixed and mastered it, is a genius and one of my inspirations.
Not interested. 10 lufs is good enough.t
Seeing as you have "DJ" in your username, watch this: ruclips.net/video/UHxKQ3iIPyA/видео.html
@@warpacademy I master between 9 and 10 lufs between -1 and -.80. I dont master like this because of A&R's or the streaming platforms. I do it because for some reason the closer i get to -.2 the harsher it gets. I dont know but i suspect the CPU needs atleast .5 dbfs before 0 to be able and calculate the information better. I noticed that once you cross the -.5 dbfs the effects, the details in a mix gets really crappy. I process analog and digital. I have Manley Vari mu, Ssl fusion, a modified sound craft ghost mixer with SSL and tantalum electronics. Again i dont know if its true or what is going on but anything getting close to -.5 dbfs begins to harshen up and details begin to fade. Also, ive had plenty of people show me a mix they swear its awesome but in reality its super harsh. Ive seen this phenomenon more often, i think modern people have grown accustomed to this extreme harshness. I truly think a lot of engineers and music listeners have their ears messed up as a result of listening to harsh music for many years. I like my music to be smooth and silky. .5 dbfs/9lufs is not a deal breaker vs -.1/7 lufs.
Neat signal chain. I mean, if you’re processing out of the box it’s completely different. You’ll have to load your gear according to a completely different set of rules.
And I agree with you about harshness in digital music. People’s preference for brighter masters is a real thing. And there’s aliasing in digital which doesn’t exist in analog.
Brightness is very subjective. And if you want to create a more smooth, darker top end you can easily do that in digital at high loudness levels. Perhaps your DA converter is distorting from ISPs unless you leave a certain margin.
@@warpacademy after i mix otb i bring everything back at -6 dbfs. Then i use a volume plugin with a limiter in the master itb to bring it to no more than -.5 dbfs.
Nonsense. you can master as loud as you like... 😂
But itunes and apple make it quiter with their loudness algorithms.
I made a video exactly for this type of comment: Loudness Trumps EVERYTHING!
ruclips.net/video/UHxKQ3iIPyA/видео.html
Some people mistakenly believe that once the DSPs came along that the entire world started revolving around -14 LUSFS. Myself and many other engineers have spoken extensively about why that is not the case.
Stay tuned on this channel for 2 upcoming interviews with well recognized engineers where we discuss this further.