Agreed, it's not Manon's fault people choose her, but it is her responsibility to show up for practice and follow the rules all the girls are expected to follow.
i understand it perfectly and that's why i don't understand why they posted it? obviously the girls knew they were being filmed but they were being honest with themselves and their mentors. once some of them made their debut with manon, publishing what they said about her, no matter how they felt, can make them uncomfortable and does nothing for their relationship or for the fans
they said multiple times in the doc that they were playing up the drama for views in the western audience. i am part of that audience, and i would never want their confusion and desperation to turn into entertainment
Manon and Wonhee of Illit remind me a lot of each other. They were both scouted not through audition. Both were brought into a Hybe program extremely late. Both were praised for having potential star power. They both got into their groups. They even have the same birthday! 😂 Honestly I think it was smart for choosing both girls because the internet keeps talking about them which is exactly what Hybe wants! They want more engagement and that’s exactly what those girls are giving them.
But Hybe is such a scum for kicking Youngseo out! That girl clearly didn’t leave on her own terms when she tried to audition for Meovv along with Jiwoo but both didn’t get in and i hope she doesn’t give up on her dreams
@@hallooos7585people compared her leaving letter with Le Sserafim’s Garam and the way it was written was more that they both agreed that she could leave. While with Garam they straight said they ended her contract. There’s a chance Youngseo left on her own or got kicked out. I really don’t think Hybe got rid of her since they promoted her so much on ru next. I was hoping she would come back to Illit and pull an Ahyeon but ever since the news of Meovv, idk what her fate will be.
@@skye4942 Well she clearly didnt leave on her own when at the end of RUNext she wanted to show fans that she can do a cute concept but was unable to, and plus she cried and was clearly happy to be in the group, it just doesn't make sense that she left and is back to auditioning to be apart of another group when she was already in a group in the first place
What I think is so ironic about the situation is the public's take on each one. I used Wonhee as an example of why people were validating the girls in Katseye's feelings. It's not that Manon wasn't talented or that they were saying that it's not even a bad thing to point out pretty privilege and double standards but K-pop fans are the only people who are allowed to point that out ig. Obviously the situations aren't 1 for 1 but Wonhee making it and the public calling the voting rigged is the same as the girls complaining bc there were obvious double standards for Manon. I also think there are other takes on this as well but I just find the hypocrisy funny as a whole.
@@lawrencenguyen7326I think they mean like an actual survival show in Korea. For example watching the documentary I loved Adela and saw her talent but watching the little weekly missions and THATS IT, Adela did not shine during the actual pink venom video so it’s like ? That could’ve been flipped bcuz she was barely in the spotlight and first mission, I’m not voting for her but she actually had the most talent
Before the show dropped, Manon and Lara did a live where they apologized for what we were going to see and assured us they weren't in that same place now. This show was two years ago. The girls have had time to bond and I can see they are all truly friends now.
@@ros.b98 They don't have to be BTS in the sense that they are like family and it can be seen and felt. They just need to be close enough to do their job. It is a job.
I know people are saying Manon was stressed or something, but speaking from personal experience I can totally understand the other girls and it’s impossible to not feel frustrated when people don’t show up to team meetings, especially if they’re the one that need it the most.
Yes, but why take it out on Manon???. It was up to management to set the ground rules and uphold them. They didn’t reprimand Manon for not attending training sessions and by not doing so they set up this resentment. Cos the girls wouldn’t have been mean to Manon if she only missed a couple of sessions due to illness. Fact is they allowed Manon not to attend the training sessions and so she thought it was okay.
I don’t like when people use the excuse well I or I did it so should you. Because your basing it off the fullness on your perception which is wrong. No one has to live up your expectations of them or face up to your expectations if that’s not what it is meant for their life. I’m sorry these girls were untitled and willing to sacrifice their time and freedom to be something she’s not. Which makes the materialistic. But they mad because she wants to realistic and healthy but because they want to she should do the same.
No lie i am just sharing my opinion but at starting I also like thought that it was unfair and that Manon was terrible that's what I thought but later she explained everything and i felt that she was okay now I stan katseye and feel that she is great and has fabulous talent but still it was pretty unfair i believe that's what the girls thought but hybe next time shouldn't be like that it's sad for the other contestants and freaking unfair
Manon was scouted because she was pretty, we should acknowledge that. She's mentioned she doesn't have a long background in performance. So, her looks got her past auditions. However, I believe Manon could feel the animosity, and that must've felt so alienating and awful. She must've felt like everyone was ganging upon her. 😢
@@nikita.947 Let's be for real, they didn't kick her out then, they won't kick her out now and I don't know why you guys act like they hated her from the get go which wasn't what happened, especially if you watched the documentary. Before they stopped getting along, she was CONFRONTED by her members about her actions and her not changing causes the drift. You're trying to tell me that out of all the 19 girls there, they all just chose to not associate with her or become friends with her? That's just dumb. The numbers aren't matching up. So they surprisingly got all 'mean girls' from different parts of the world, bsfr rn. Plus, that would be messed up. It happened due to her actions and carelessness about the program. You all conveniently leave that part out. However, I do acknowledge that the shift must've been hard on her and different people cope differently. She should've voiced it to them, but she was probably awkward about it, but I sometimes can't fully get behind her because of how nonchalant she acted towards her nonchalant attitude in the beginning ,but sure, let's just go with 'it was hard'. I personally get the girls and not so much Manon. Just imagine doing all the work just to be thrown to the side by someone that didn't put in all the work? It's all 'talent' till a pretty girl walks in. It's insane to me that everyone is also calling other girls mean girls when this is what kpop stans fight against during survival shows, but go off I guess. I still get a bit iffy anytime I think about past Manon. I respect her now tho. Coming out and talking to others to get past a problem is such a mature and bold move, but be so fr with yourselves, you probably would've acted like those girls if you were in that situation. I'd like to argue even worse because they handled that situation really well.
@@Deadlyfacecardtheir frustration was understandable since Ive been there at some point (also before you say I'm Manon hater, I just wanna say that I do not dislike her at all, and besides this happened well over 2 years ago😪)
@KUKIS12345 personally, i dont think it's right to smack talk anyone; honor the absent. And that therapy scene kinda just threw me off when trying to see their side so sorry if my comment seems biased
Honestly, I think it's healthiest to stay as neutral as possible in this situation. At the end of the day, Manon is getting a lot of flack right now. She has some die hard fans but I would encourage you to look at the conversation around this subject on all the social media platforms, and you will see that most people are criticizing Manon in defense of Sophia and Lara. It is true that she slacked during training and got a spot in the group anyway. It is also true that her peers spoke and joked about her behind her back. It is all documented in the show. I think it's only fair to acknowledge both truths. If we believe that Lara and Sophia can grow and deserve grace than I believe that we should show Manon the same respect. The way I see it is, the way a lot of "fans" are talking about Manon is very reminiscent of solo stan culture, except they are singling out one member to criticize and deem less worthy of her role in the group/team. If this energy continues in this fandom, the fandom will always be toxic. I just don't understand "staning" a group but disliking one member in the group... I don't understand how anyone can believe that these girls made up and that they all deserve to move on from the things that happen two years ago while they were in a highly stressful situation, and then continue to milk the drama on social media, not caring that it is at the expense of one of the members. The fact is, Manon may not have an ally when it comes understanding her perspective while on the show. She never got a real chance to explain herself on camera, and that is not to say that she has to have that chance, but I think if us KPOP fans are committed to cultivating an environment that is healthy for young stars and fans, this culture of ganging up on idols for INCREDIBLY petty drama (I mean, we're talking not going to practice and being too pretty... it can't get any pettier) has got to stop.
I like your take. Also I've already seen people wish for Manon to be taken out the group?!! And fans being racist. I honestly wish this document didn't come out now either way early before their debut or later on in their career.
@@unicornrainbows5456 I don’t disagree but manon was scouted because of her visuals. And she said multiple times that she didn’t have any performing experience. So you have to understand that she probably felt a bit ganged up on.
I believe the girls had every right to be upset however how they dealt with it. They didn't even deal with it, I wish they'd spoke to her earlier on if it was so frustrating. Rather than throwing shade and letting the frustration boil up.
… if you watch episode 6 or 7 manon does actually sit with everyone and hashed it out. It was more of Manon’s end to get herself out of her head about not belonging and not being fit, when she definitely did. It was a whole new culture of work ethic and life that she didn’t even knew existed and that the time she spent training actually was something she really wanted. She took accountability and not a lot of people will do that, which is why she looks so much different and confident compared to when she first started
That’s true but also manon she came in real late she didn’t have the training as the other girls who was there already they can’t say she was holding them back because the girls wasn’t doing good even when they had practice for so long it wasn’t until she got there they was doing good it’s not fair for manon she arrived real late and had to adjust to something that’s with anyone if a group of people made friends have a bond and been training for a long time you get thrown in there it will destroy your pride have you thinking you’re not good enough her looks saved her bc if she didn’t have that they still would had trash talk her it wasn’t fair for no one to talk bad about her or be mad be understanding yall had extra training before her and she don’t feel like she fits in she kept saying she shy she don’t feel like she good enough and Sophia tried to say manon wasn’t taking notes she was the only one you seen with a book taking notes they can’t be angry at her at all be angry at the people who brought y’all in and not everyone at once it wasn’t her fault at all
That’s true but also manon she came in real late she didn’t have the training as the other girls who was there already they can’t say she was holding them back because the girls wasn’t doing good even when they had practice for so long it wasn’t until she got there they was doing good it’s not fair for manon she arrived real late and had to adjust to something that’s with anyone if a group of people made friends have a bond and been training for a long time you get thrown in there it will destroy your pride have you thinking you’re not good enough her looks saved her bc if she didn’t have that they still would had trash talk her it wasn’t fair for no one to talk bad about her or be mad be understanding yall had extra training before her and she don’t feel like she fits in she kept saying she shy she don’t feel like she good enough and Sophia tried to say manon wasn’t taking notes she was the only one you seen with a book taking notes they can’t be angry at her at all be angry at the people who brought y’all in and not everyone at once it wasn’t her fault at all
end of the day, manon never trained in anything before and scouted for her looks, she came with her beautiful natural look and captured fans as Hybe and Getten expected she did what she was bought to do, and is still the reason katseye gets attention and as much as they critique her she looks the exact same as the other girls when she has performed every performance
I've had female colleagues in the past that were horrible to work with. They come to work late, miss out meetings, often called in sick, and sometimes down right irresponsible and an unreliable team mate. But they never get fired because they're very pretty and always dressed up well, so a lot of managers like them and let these pretty girls get away with everything. So unfortunately, having good looks really does help you get ahead in life, even if you're not working as hard as others may have.
Honestly I didn’t watch the whole survival show but nowadays I really like their songs and check out their videos and everything seems good to me every member is talented and it’s good imo
the document makes manon look like an absolute ass. i don't wanna sugar coat it or start hating on her, but everyone is dancing, working hard and then there's a clip of her just sitting there and saying she's not going today. i understand feeling tired at times, or some mental issues with which you could struggle with, but it just looked like she was not in the mood to go out of laziness. as you said, hybe sucks at making documentaries and i also feel like they might've made manon look like the villain so they can make the fandom more dedicated to protecting the group. it could also very well be that hybe literally made her look worse than that she really was. either way, hybe sucks lmao 😭. hybe is actively sabotaging themselves by making ass documentaries that make people look bad. yikes
I don't want to excuse her behavior, I just want to remind your she's from Switzerland. The work culture there is different. Taking a break is somewhat if a necessity. If they had told her from the get go about the system they're using I think it would've been better. However I did notice the switch after she spoke to Son. She said she was feeling insecure and Son reassured her that they weren't looking for perfection and she took advantage of his response (there was more to what he said) and decided to skip days etc
The documentary showed the reconciling conversation between the girls and also Manon’s comments about how she realized she needed to change her work ethic. It demonstrated growth and conflict resolution. It’s not the fault of those making the documentary if people want to ignore all that and focus more on the conflict and drama.
Manon grew up in school where mental health are important so her school allowed her to miss days of school if she is feeling sick or tired but now she is in a new environment so she did not know that there is no mental health days for dancers or pop stars. so please understand her she is still learning
In my opinion the girls had every right to feel that way about manon not showing up but I also get manon cause they’re mainly talking abt it in private and never rlly face to face properly but I feel like they shouldn’t have aired it plus it wasn’t manon fault for getting voted cause she’s pretty and the main problem is they took that out on her
I will say the only thing that should not have come out of this is the anti-blackness from some of the fans towards Manon and the micro aggression that some of the girls used towards her. I just think hybe all around just needs to stop with the documentaries before everyone starts hating their artists. They’re literally 2 for 2 right now with LSRM and now Katseye. They’re sabotaging careers and they’re not even realizing it. 😭
There's even anti-blackness coming from fans defending Sophia. I can understand defending her from hate but being racist?!! Really? People really think that'll help in the situation? I believe people did see her experience from the Western lense (her being a black women and the reality black women face) so for people to go as far as to insult her race made the internal war worse.
@@nandi_m04 manon fans started dehumanize both Lara and Sophia, we're not going to sit there and act like nothing is happening 😅😅 if only manon stans widen their horizon and have a deep understanding of the story that the docu has been trying to tell none of this would happen 😊
@@nandi_m04 correction! stop trying to associate yourself to manon every black groups have different struggles that doesn't mean she's black western people should align themselves to her. Her experiences is different from black Americans also she's light skin of course the favor was on her side you see a full on black person and that would be a different story 😂😂😂
@@nandi_m04 What anti-blackness are you talking about? This was never about the color of skin but about how bad habits/attitude affects the opinions and actions of other people. Trainees are not the only ones against Manon, even the trainers themselves are.
Here is my only complaint, and it is not based on the girls but the FANDOM itself. You can critique Manon all you want, but to bring anti blackness into the conversation is ridiculous. In the media black people cannot be critiqued without racism being brought up. Talk about her pretty privilege, and her “lack of dedication” (I don’t agree with that but some people say that.)
That's right. I don't even get why they brought that up since she has eurocentric features herself. The company wanted her because she fits the idealistic standards the company has. It's a South Korean company. Whether they like it or not, the truth is, they prioritize her because she's the perfect visual for a global girl group. Mixed with eurocentric features.
If Manon was so problematic why Hybe didn't get rid of her? They could've done this if they wanted. It's funny because now it looks like they are punishing her for her past behaviour. Very weird and insensitive, in my opinion. But, well, it's Hybe. We can't expect much from them.
I believe they couldn't let her go due to the star quality she has and how she attracts people's attention. They've been wanting her since they saw her.
Yes, I also think they wanted her in the group; they could have kicked her out at any moment. Plus, I don’t understand why this is coming up now. Manon is already part of their agency, and if she or the other girls have a bad image, it directly harms the company. I think they simply don’t know how to make documentaries
@@maneater3491 her attitude? She doesn't even have a bad attitude, she just didn't attend classes accordingly and now she has an attitude. You're such a hater and it's sickening. She very much is attractive and no hate or slander towards the girls will be tolerated.
you know her not wanting to go to classes, what is what she had to do, was slowing everyone's process right? the other girls where having a hard time without her presence especially on the dance lessons where there was a blank space
In the end, Hybes knew Manon was gonna bring big bucks home and they were right. The public loves her, she is a great visual for the team, and she has a huge fanbase that would've have cared for the group if it wasn't for her, me included. Regardless of what people say, Manon is doing exactly what she needs to do
@@hyuncute Samara was a target of fake news saying she was anti-indian, anti-chinese, zionist, extremist christian, islamophobic and pro-war because she liked stuff on Tik Tok and Instagram in portuguese and people who don't even speak the language took it out of context. First she liked a few videos about street food that seemed to be in India. The thing is, Brazilians are the cleanest people in the world. The average brazilian takes three showers a day(myself included), it's a habit we inherited from our indigenous people. So joking about other countries being unhygienic is common in Brasil, but it's nothing personal against India because we also joke a lot about French people and europeans overall being smelly because they don't take showers and just use perfumes instead. We are usually very respectful about it. Most gringos engage on the joke. We have a french comedian that lives in Brasil named "Paul Cabannes" and he jokes about not taking showers all the time. It's just a silly meme, we know this is a real problem in some places, including even the poorest regions in Brasil, but brazilians we are the kind of people that we believe that making fun about our problems make them easier to bare. So Samara is not anti-indian because if she was, Lara and Ezrela wouldn't be friends with her(they both still follow Samara on instagram, Ezrela likes her stuff frequently and Lara liked Samara's video doing the touch challenge). Second:She liked a video in Tik Tok about the war going on in Gaza and people assumed she was in Israel's favor when she wasn't, the video was just explaining the conflict with reliable information and context but hey I guess wanting to be informed about geopolitics is wrong now. The video wasn't taking Israel's side. Third:She is a protestant christian, so she liked a lot of bible stuff that people were saying was conspirationist and intolerant to other religions when it wasn't. And the anti-chinese allegations is because she liked an Instagram post that her church made listing countries that have high christian intolerance so christians should think twice about viaiting or travelling to and China was included. And anyone who searchs "Persecution of christians in China" can see it's true. Sadly every country has religions that are more accepted than others. Thing is, most foreigners chose to just hate on her instead of searching for the true so most people who aren't brazilian who watched the show still think she's all those things I mentioned when she isn't.
@@hyuncute Samara was a victim of fake news saying she was anti-indian, anti-chinese, zionist, islamophobic, extremist christian and pro-war. She liked things on Tik Tok and Instagram that people who don't even speak portuguese took out of context. The video she liked about the conflict in Gaza wasn't taking Israel's side, just explaining why the war is happening with reliable information and context. The videos she liked about the bible were because she is a protestant christian, but it wasn't anything intolerant to other religions, conspirationist or fundamentalist. Brasil has more than 80% of its population being christian and most people practice the religion actively. She liked on Instagram a post that her church was listing countries that christians should think twice about visiting or travelling to because they have high christian intolerance and China was mentioned and sadly all countries have religions who are more accepted than others, just search "Persecution of christians in China". And about the videos about India street food, Brasil is the cleanest people in the world. The average brazilian takes three or more showers a day. So joking about other countries being unhygienic is common in Brasil. It's nothing personal against India, we do these jokes with europe too, specially France, we say they invent the best perfumes in the world to hide the fact that they are smelly because they don't shower. But most gringos engage on it(like Paul Cabannes, a french comedian based in Brasil, he jokes about not being clean all the time) because we joke about it in a respectful way. We don't mean any harm, because we know It's a real problem in some places in the world(including some regions in Brasil) but brazilians are the type of people that would make fun about our problems because it makes them easier to bare. The infamous "Rir para não chorar"("Laughing not to cry"), we say. Also both Lara and Ezrela seemed to still be friends with her, which they wouldn't if she really had something against indians.
I'm sorry but life isn't fair 🤷🏾♀️ looks definitely matter in the industry not just talent, look at all of your faves. I think the final line up was practically perfect and fit together well, even coming down to the height. The girls that were eliminated wouldn't have fit. They are talented and will be successful with their own separate endeavors, they just weren't meant for the group
@PiggiesInTheRain Its not exactly a bad take .......it's the way it was said/commented, we all know how toxic the industry is so YES sadly looks does matter, but aside from that, the girls were most def chosen for their talents, there isn't a single person in this group that I would say is completely talentless or doesn't deserve to be there
@@PiggiesInTheRain cry about it. At the end of the day the person is right whether you like it or not. PD Bang even said it himself that you need to have that star quality.
I was born and raised and live in Switzerland so I have learned Switzerland is a peaceful country with minimum amount of stress,worry,anger,etc but if I would have come to audition in Korea I would try my best to adapt to Korean culture instead of just trying to make the others adapt to Swiss culture.and honestly,the girls had every right to be upset,manon was doing everything her way tbh.and it wouldn’t be that bad is she skipped 1 class i mean it’s wouldn’t be any form of good but it’s not gonna be that bad ( and I’m not taking manons side in any way rn )
Finally a mature view on the whole situation! People online were blowing it up way out of proportion when it really was never that serious because 1. It happened ages ago, 2. the girls are grown and obviously mature for their age so they've most definitely left any frustration or drama in the past, and 3. Manon has grown exponentially since! I think some people must have trouble putting themselves in other peoples shoes or approaching tough situations in a mature way because they were absolutely hating on Lara and Sophia and some hating on Manon. I totally agree that it's super easy to see why some girls expressed frustrations considering many put their lives, education, etc on the line, came all the way from other countries and paid for their flights, and were training day and night for months. Of course anybody would be frustrated, heartbroken, etc. if they came so far and then had to go home while someone who did not put as much effort in as them got to stay. I would have been in shambles, personally. And as for Manon, like you said, she was not responsible for fan voting, and although she could have approached the situation better, it was obvious she came from a different background than the other girls there - she never trained before in dance, singing, etc and she was under the impression it was something you could skip days of like school, and it was also very clear that once she realized she had to put 200% in like the other girls, she did just that! Katseye as we know them are amazing and each and every one of them deserved that spot!
Important life lesson for everybody: Life is not fair and success is not necessarily the product of hard work. But its understandable that this comes as a shock to the young women after having been told for over a year: "You have to work harder, you have to put in the work." Its the same lie people everywhere have been told for years.
@@hyuncute what the girls on the show experienced is something that people everywhere in the workplace experience: they put in the hard work, but someone who is liked better by more people and with more luck gets the promotion. Difficult to change that, the rules are not really the rules. But yes, its terrible the way the production lied to the girls and used them all. Its completely unethical.
@@anustern1960 this is so true. One job i worked at I applied for a Shift manager position after being there for 2 years. I did the interview had the references from other departments. The hiring manager sat me down and said "You would be really good at the job, since your technically filling in for it, and doing all the work, but you didnt play nice with the right people, so we picked someone else" The "someone else" was a new girl that was there for 3 months that did no work but would go on smoke breaks with the hiring manager and their manager. I said to them "so because I didnt kiss up to you I didnt get the job" They kinda just looked at me and shrugged. The kicker, they asked me to help the girl out and I flat out told them no, they hired her so she has to do it. I left a month later, and about 5 part timers left right after
@@ellarainbow9741 they clearly just hate Manon and barely comprehended what was happening. I'm sure the person watched the documentary to "prove" Manon to be some villain. Everyone that watched and was smart enough to comprehend what was there would know that Lexie no longer wanted to be there and it was a mutual agreement. Og commenter seems to discard of that FACT.
2:20 she didn’t show up to practise because she didn’t fell like it, I think that’s what most people get wrong, she has no previous training in dance, her body was probably exhausted. I can relate to her on that point since when I started dancing 4 years ago I also skipped a lot of practise because my body was so tired and exhausted. I had to get used to it, my body had to get used to dancing for hours, since it didn’t need to do that before
they were all tired, there were people with even less training than manon and they didn't skip a day, I understand that she could be tired but it wasn't easy for the other teammates either and it was affecting them
Not my gen so I really dont follow KPop. But the Touch video started showing up everywhere I have to say that Manon caught my attention so here I am. All the girls are pretty but Manon has very distinct features and the way she makes eye contact.
I think the problem is they wanted her! They chose her already before anyone else. And when it was time for fans to choose they also chose her! She was always gonna make it! He’ll she prob even knew. I LOVE Manon! She is dope but I do agree she still should have came hard even if the role was already hers!
After watching the documentary i think Manon doesn't deserve to be there. Her work ethic and respect to the group was non-existant from the start and it was obvious she was an industry plant from the start and it's unfair to the girls who worked so hard to be there.
@@hyuncute i don't think it's hating when it was her actions to begin with. I'm just literally mentioning manon's actions and attitude in the documentary. The real haters are the one bashing the other members for telling her off of her own actions. Like, it was truly unfair for the girls and it was right for them to voice that out. Anyone in that situation would be frustrated on mason's actions. I know you will be if it happened to you. And yeah, of course manon will be in the group regardless if she puts in more effort and dedication or not unlike the other girls because she's an industry plant.
@@salem444-s9o It is hating because you're being childish as hell. She missed a few practices, then what did she do? She started working just as hard as everyone else and rapidly improved, so you can't say she doesn't deserve her spot and you can't act like she got in by just sitting on her ass you wierdo.
@hyuncute it's not hating. She was stating the truth. Speaking about her lack of skills and unwillingness is the truth. No one is hating her. The girls who got unreasonable hate are Lara and Sophia. They were rightfully upset to begin with, but they managed to work around it and wholeheartedly accepted manon in the group just so the solo stans started to degrade them, calling them names. this fully overshadowed their hard work and raw talent. They even started to villainize their ambition and willingness to stay at the top.
Star power is super important, I say this all the time, take Britney Spears, she is the queen of pop yet her voice is definitely not the best but Britney just had that star power that captivated you and her songs were Al bangers
Manon was living her normal life on insta and tt etc, she had no prior dancing or singing skills, so when she joined the program she knew she had to play catch up since everyone else had joined like a year earlier. I understand the point of Adela saying she just had a pretty face to get in, but she was flaming Manon every chance she got like why waste your ending on smack talk? Ultimately, I think Manon improved a lot since the start of dream academy in star quality, dancing, singing, etc.
Frankly, fans have been grossing me out with this shit. All of them were wrong. Manon was wrong in the beginning and it made the girls fustrated HOWEVER, you can be fustrated and NOT resort to social outcasting and talking behind someone's back, and you especially don't get to blame them for being liked or picked. Sophia literally tried to portray Manon as wrong for being upset the girls were talking shit about her behind her back because OTHER PEOPLE liked her. Ya'll really need to check yourselves because you're /acting/ like you have some emotional intelligence by saying you understand why they are fustrated, only to promptly prove you don't because you clearly can't recognize borderline bullying.
Dramarama lol. One thing about Manon, she’s going to serve face. I think they made a good choice in the end. I see so many new listeners ask about her or join the fandom because of her popularity. Fair or not, she’s doing exactly what they wanted
at first i felt bad for manon cuz she seemed sweet and during the choreography she wasn't given the perfect spot from where she could be seen .. but after watching this video i think that she could have been a little more responsible and now that hybe is gonna do things to her as punishment
I find it strange that multiple comments are ignoring the fact that towards the end of the documentary Manon did start working harder and showing up more. Like yes, she should’ve been more present in the beginning. However, acting like she just never worked on her behavior after she finally was able to get the girls together and talk is very strange to me. Painting her out to be some spoiled brat is not the move y’all think it is. Generally, I think it could’ve been handled better on all sides here, not just Manon herself.
I didn't say she never worked, but honestly it doesn't matter, she did it multiple times delaying her whole team and I simply comment what I see, here the main culprit is HYBE for showing us that, if you want to hear the manon version then ask her, as we don't have it, I comment what I see.
@hyuncute where did I say you specifically were saying that? And where did I say she didn't slow them down with missing rehearsals? I quite literally said it could've be handled better on all sides, not JUST Manon.
I can understand Manon she was alone Everyone was talking about her with do not even know what really happened to her they only showed us half of the video just imagine what she have gone through before she decide not to going to class Lara ad sp all talk bad about her what do u exactly her to do if that was u .whenever I don’t feel good in my working place, I don’t feel like going to work because at the end of the day I will be alone I don’t have anybody to speak to. No one want to speak to me.
Lets be real, Hybe definetly gave Manon special treatment. They let her miss practices, put her in the strongest groups everytime, while making her the center. If anny other girl did what she did they'd have been out of there easily 😂 they litterally kicked a girl out because they said was skill was way too behind the others and didnt think shed catch up, meanwhile manon was dead last in both singing and dancing the entire show.
I think add public voting is fair and wise decisions because talent aside, you want to make a girl that everyone like so popularity is essential for the girl group. There is alot talent artists in the world but being popular will make success and longevity.
Okay to anyone who says that they preferred Lexie over Manon and when Lexie started missing classes they didn’t get mad at her and it was all favouritism, if Lexie didn’t hate the program she would have debuted, she was an all rounder she just willingly dropped out. Lexie stopped attending classes because she hated the program and hated how everything was ranked and it was solely based on her morals and what she valued. The voting system was almost based on nothing like no one knew what talents people actually like had all they saw was how they looked, and i’m not trying to bring Manon down because I genuinely think she’s gorgeous and belongs in the group, but Lexie wasn’t preferred, she was obviously more consistent and put more effort into it for most of what we saw in the documentary but she decided to drop out… (tbh Lexie and Adela were some of my favs and i almost cried when they were eliminated/left. i love all of the members and contestants though, and all girls of katseye deserve to be in the group.)
At the end of the day, the girls have all moved past this and grown super close to one another. It’s obvious in their lives and behind the scenes clips that they’ve bonded super well and understand each other a lot better.
Manon deserves the hate if she's not going to show up to practice and not follow the rules but still is the most loved one is just so unfair for the others
They shouldn't be mad because they need to rember how they would act if they were her, and also they should worry about themselves because you know your pretty so why worry about people's opinions if you know your pretty, and the leader she gets on my damn nerves about that
It's hard to train with covid. Recovery takes time. They all whined too much about her absence. Anyway, the fans chose Manon to be in the group. That's life. I'm happy she's there. Yo, time to move on people.
To be honest this group isn't really a K-Pop group it feels like they're just in a K-pop label because K-pop is supposed to be Korean pop it's literally in the name. And there's only one Korean girl.
I always wondered this too. I just accepted it because, “times are changing,” but it sorta feels like erasure of culture. Diversity in the idols’ ethnicities is fine, but ever since K-pop became popularized in the west, it seems like it became more about singing songs in English to make money. Why not call them a global pop group instead?
@@SantokiYama erasure of what culture? kpop is literally just the korean language over pop songs created in the west. even till this day they see whatever is hot and poppin then recreate their own with their language over it. culture erasure? no. its called capitalizing on something that works. for decades they've had western ppl make the songs, add advice on mv's and ppl have literally admitted, born and raised in south korea, that they're inspired from the west but not CLAIMING POP. dont try to sound progressive when there's evidence proving kpop has always been open to anyone, they just wanna make it feel like its all inclusive only.
I can't lie if im being real in life visuals do matter im not saying it is right for any idol to get voted just because they have visuals but the thing is thats reality things like this do happen and its not fair. Like this video says, manon shouldn't be blamed for being voted, but as the video says, the girls have every right to be angry. Fan voting, in my opinion, is not very fair, but that's the reality of the kpop industry and how the company chooses to do thing's
I seriously can’t see Sophia and Lara the same anymore 😢 Manon is talented, but she wasn’t dedicating herself. She missed because she was sick and her mental health (she felt inadequate to the others because she started out with a low skill set and zero prior training) not to mention the cultural difference. And no one asked her why she wasn’t there, they just assumed she was lazy and ran with it. She’s a hard worker, she’s talented, and it’s ridiculous. She isn’t favorited in any respect ppl behind the scenes literally sabotaged her image throughout dream academy. I understand where the other girls are coming from but they should’ve blamed the system they were under not Manon who was just another contestant and had zero to do with the voting system like bffr
Same but I'm relearning to love them. I really don't want to project my unfinished business from the past with similar experiences onto them. I just really wish they had dealt with the issue better and sooner rather than later. Rather than laughing, giving dirty looks and throwing shade at Manon. The girls were so vocal to the camera they had so much potential with resolving the issue on their own without it going down how it did. I won't dismiss their feelings however I do believe it would be unfair to dismiss Manon's change at the end and her eventually calling everyone for a talk. Though it was supposed to be either the other way around or be issued by the companies training them.
Why Sophia and Lara are being true to their feelings, I can't blame them it's manon who keep doing her own thing making trips on her own that's why she's not in some of their TikToks
@maneater3491 so their true feelings were giving her dirty looks and talking about her behind her back? Villifying her as if she's the main problem? They needed to get a grip
I actually have a newfound appreciation and respect for both of these girls for being the voice of reason when hybe themselves won’t do their job of talking to Manon and reprimanding her. They question why even confront her when they’re both on the top of the class… simple, to address their concerns and frustrations when nobody else have the guts to do so
Y’all cannot be serious did you watch ep 7 Sophia was so nice to her there Manon missed practices, break curfews etc I agree they shouldn’t be isolating her but they’re feelings are valid
being absent to ur group reheasal when thqats ur job is extremely disrespectful, that is not the company's fault, however being lenient to that is, what a mess
They are just jelous because they feel like she isn't qualified and she has it easy. She is the chosen one that's it that is why they resent her it's jealousy and that's an ugly trate and it's showing on thier faces
Well yeah if someone is passing for just being pretty while everyone else is working their butts off in a performance competition, it would be pretty frustrating.
The real ugly trait is you glorifying laziness and visuals over hard work and raw talent. Especially for an industry that expects girls to make an "effort." How old are you to begin with? This is something a little middle schooler would say when they couldn't comprehend a situation above them. Why would the other girls be jealous when the made it there due to their hard work and talent? Especially the ones who are at the top. They never had any reason to be envious of a dozen. They are pissed off because the other girls who deserves to be there are eliminated and the spot was given to an unwilling girl who's visuals are the only thing going for her.
Tbh i agree she shouldnt have been in the group i think she is talented and deserving of it but other girls were just a little better but there is no point in complaining now since the group has already debuted and at this point complaining could only make Manon feel bad which is just unnecessary negativity since its not like theyre just gonna kick her to the curb and grab one of the other contestants so atp we should just deal with it plus shes gonna get better anyway plus it’s possible the other contestants could debut in another group
why wouldn't the other girls be mad? their friends got eliminated! like Adela for example Megan and Emily were friends with her and everyone thought that she would make it on. She helped everyone when they needed it.
All the girls are talented but it’s just manons culture since she’s from Switzerland, but it’s not that fair to be judged based on looks instead of talent. Everyone in the K-pop industry is beautiful, so instead just judge it in talent.
I think it is best for the trainees to tell how they feel, i would also be frustrated if someone didn’t come to rehearsals and would just go to the pool
but şf they didn't show what happened with manon people would've blame the other girls not liking manon one day. because we know thst people won't change and i'm sure she is still doing this kind of stuff and i feel a coldness in the group. we know who is causing at least
but also manon she came in real late she didn't have the training as the other girls who was there already they can't say she was holding them back because the girls wasn't doing good even when they had practice for so long it wasn't until she got there they was doing good it's not fair for manon she arrived real late and had to adjust to something that's with anyone if a group of people made friends have a bond and been training for a long time you get thrown in there it will destroy your pride have you thinking you're not good enough her looks saved her bc if she didn't have that they still would had trash talk her it wasn't fair for no one to talk bad about her or be mad be understanding yall had extra training before her and she don't feel like she fits in she kept saying she shy she don't feel like she good enough and Sophia tried to say manon wasn't taking notes she was the only one you seen with a book taking notes they can't be angry at her at all be angry at the people who brought y'all in and not everyone at once it wasn't her fault at all
I think manon was neither the only one who came late nor the last one to arrive, and it doesn't matter if you don't have any training, even less if you don't show up for classes, no one had it easy
Manon was scouted a month after the training began and she was trained separately for 3 months before she was introduced to the girls so no she didn't come in late. The people that came in late are Hinari's group
In my opinion, the girls had a right to feel frustrated because Manon once said that she wouldn’t go to rehearsal because she felt very sore or she just wasn’t in the mood. Most of the girls are also sore and most of them are tired and worn out because of all this training, they are still able to train and apply efforts.
@@hyuncuteI think I get what this comment is saying. Black women are typically stereotyped online and are seen as "unattractive". They get lots of hate both online and in real life, so it's refreshing and surprising to see a change is what they're saying.
To be honest the staff should of set some rules because they expect her to show up and if they dont than there is a problem. As long as they fixed this rough patch now then its all good. They made such a amazing debut
It's all over twitter and every social media discussing the contest, so why are you so critical about this information? But quick to believe Manon is lazy, when Song himself (the judge of the show) said Manon was the most improved. 🤔 Lazy while being most improved lol, I guess that shows how naturally talented Manon is
@@Frenchii91 actually, this is not the true. The first trainees didn't even train in 2021. They started in 2022, to be exact it was in may which was supposed to be Adela's graduation. In april, she was still in school and thought she is about to graduate in May, but they called her in and she dropped out like week before due to the training program. There are literally pictures on her IG with her class in robes in april 2022. Ever since May she is posting from US. As far as I remember, Manon had covid after the mission 1 and that's why she couldn't go to Korea with girls and wasn't at first elimination. In commentary of misson 1, judges are actually talking about that Manon is missing rehearsals and they need to see comitment. Also that is why Manon is isolated during mission 2 announcement. Althogh, it was actually shown in documentary too that she messaged them she had covid before first elimination.
I feel like manon shouldn't have debuted because (according to the documentary) manon joined later after the whole project started and like she just wasn't giving as much effort as others that didn't debuted and she didn't have the teammate energy.She debuted because she was pretty
All this situation is soo damn stupid i mean she debuted that's the most important part and sryy but never expected that Sophia would talked behind Manon's back i mean its such a weird thing but anyway manon still my fav even if y'all are hating on her she's pretty and talented the other members too and how could I forget all the nonsense adela said 😂. and how could be manon's fault if you had being eliminated like wthh😂😂
They are in a group meeting with the therapist which is a safe space for them to air out their frustrations, I didn’t see that as talking behind her back, and as you heard from her, she, as the appointed leader at the time, spoke to Manon numerous times already but she just go about her ways. Also maybe if she would just show up, they would’ve talked to her earlier…I think I just resonate more on the girls who were working their butt off and never got credit for it, coz they don’t consider them as “the standard”
@@Riei143 she didn't speak to Manon. Manon spoke to her. Sophia might've had that leader quality from the start but she did lack the ability/skill to lead a resolution. Manon found comfort in approaching Sophia and telling her she was upset they kept on saying things behind her back and instead of laying everything out in that moment she kept quiet and saved it for the therapy session. And the girls were always credited for their talents and skills. Just not by the public accordingly.
Bro.They should of sat down and talked abt their feelings.but Manon would’ve would of felt that all her friends were against her.If Manon DIDNT want to come to practice because of stress and the others still came even though they were also in stress Manon has different feelings and u guys can’t be saying it that stress isn’t a reason to not come to practice.If Manon was stressed she probably felt. Overwhelmed and didn’t feel like coming. Pipe down 💀💀
i think i know, the reason they give training and not just 'sign up for a competition show where fans will vote' is when you watch K-pop shows, many of them have been training for years, that's why they give training to this show cause not all around the world have training for this. and that is why they don't tell the girls who participate about the competition show or they will maybe leave the training and its getting harder to find the contestants
then why not blame the company??? yes manon was in the wrong but the company was too and so were the girls just a little bit, everyone could've handled the situation differently. why is it manons fault the company scouted her and she didn't audition? it's not her fault at all that the company just threw her into a game and she didn't know how to play and it's also not her fault the company played favorites. everyone is improving now, and if the ACTUAL members can move on why can't other people 😭
Manon just having her happy life doing modeling having simple career of her own then there is hybe Dm her and put her in a very competitive world 😅 now she is being the center of the drama 😂 wow nice
Yes. Lara and Sophia were mean and spoke behind her back. I’m not saying she wasn’t at fault for missing some training sessions, but that’s no excuse for how the girls channeled their frustrations. If anything they should have taken it out on management, not on Manon.
@@LB-ih7hn they clearly spoke to her as said by Sophia but Manon wasn't ready to ready to accept it. They were frustrated and felt it was unfair which should be understandable
We're not getting the full picture here. How long were the practice sessions for, and how many days a week were they? Kpop compamies exploit their talent and guilt them into thinking they need to practice no matter what and push past injuries. Adela said in a reddit AMA she practiced from 8am to 9pm everyday in dance and vocals. That is an insane schedule for 2 years and not healthy. We see several girls with injuries and its concerning to think how much they were practicing to get them. Lexie had hip surgery at the ripe age of 20 and says she'll never be able to dance all out again. Several kpop idols mentioned sustaining injuries during training such as Kai and Lay from Exo and their back injuries because they overdid it. Idols have fainted on stage from exhaustion and forced to perform with injuries. I get the girls' frustrations, but I want to see how their practice schedules were and how many Manon missed before judging. It might be that the girls were exploited and didn't realize it. Regardless, it shouldn't have been the girls' responsibility to reprimand Manon, but the program directors. Yet Missy said in an interview that attendance for practices weren't mandatory so that's a contradictory message and probably the heart of the issue.
she signed a contract to be there, if she didn't agree she shouldn't have signed it, I understand that some companies exploit their artists, but it is a problem that should be eradicated from the root and not harming your colleagues by taking justice into your own hands if that is manon was trying to do
@hyuncute That's not what I mean. What I'm curious about is if she skipped practice to prevent injury from too much physical activity. You can overwork the body, as seen by Lexie, Emily, Megan, and Samara. Lexie will.have to deal with that injury for the rest of her life. Emily was still dancing in pain. Overall these girls were exploited and manipulated into thinking their practices of overwork and being lied to were ok. Don't get me started in their contract. Brooklyn straight up asked if they were gonna be on a survival show and the execs said no. The execs did that because they knew if they told the truth from the beginning, 1) some of the girls would have never joined, and 2) some of the girls wouldn't have overworked themselves to injury for a popularity contest.
I like how people are acting like all the girls did not talk things out and resolved the conflict, this is the group they have proven that they are talented, now get over it, bunch of drama queens making videos for what ???🤦♀️
I honestly feel like her owning up to her team was real and enough for me to think she deserves the opportunity still. At first I felt like she was trying hard before she got with the other girls then I was like what’s going on girl why you not going to rehearsal and also you literally get to stay off site with your family. (Still think that was unfair) but it takes a lot to admit when you’re wrong and to listen to people throw it at you and just listen so I liked that a lot. She has a good attitude about it.
An Unbiased Analysis of Manon in KATSEYE. 1: Yes, she is benefiting from pretty privilege. Why? Because she was already popular on social media and that is needed to sell an image and music in KPop. Every Kpop group has an ultra pretty group member. Unfortunately, that comes with some unfair privileges. The label knows that removing Manon will literally end the group. It's up to Manon to choose how she will wield this power. Only time will tell. 2: Yes, she missed a lot of practices, which left the other group members floundering. She has since acknowledged her indiscretions and apologized. She was mature enough to address the group face to face with this. They have since moved on, and you should, too. 3. Her talents ARE being downplayed. Only two members of this group can really sing. The rest, including Manon, can barely carry a tune. Especially when singing live. Kpop has never and will never be about great singing. Every single girl in this group can dance. Including Manon. As long as you can follow choreography well, you can dance. Raw dancing talent comes out when you can dance without choreography, which is not required nor needed in a K-pop group. 3: Is her being placed in the back for most of Debut's routine, petty punishment, or racist? Maybe. I think we can all admit that 6-member formations are difficult. The best way to fix this is to hire a choreographer who has experience with large formations, like Paris Goebel. Whomever they are using and whoever approved it is at fault. This still doesn't excuse why Manon is hidden throughout the routine. It is very possible that the choreographer did this purposely because she doesn't like Manon. Maybe for making her adjust her routines so often during her absences, or because she doesn't like pretty girls, or because she's Black. Who knows? The best solution to this problem is to get a better choreographer.
they did live vocals in their practice, and only Sophia sounded the same, so who are your 2/6 bc although the others didn't sound the same, their voices were very stable
I agree with you for the most part but I think the girls each have decent voices. Lara's voice stands out the most, to me, but I do like the other members' voices.
Actually, I think they put her in the back because her movement in formations is still mediocre and her moves are a bit stagnant. I noticed it a lot during the debut performances. She’s just not on the same level as the other girls right now, but with time, she’ll get there.
For your last point it is possibly because though manon is a decent dancer, she is the weakest one out of them. She did better in touch and is now doing decent in debut too due to practise but probably the time they must be filming she may have not been keeping up well with the others. People like Lara too aren’t exactly dancers but the girl has learnt how to keep up well. Manon is eventually doing the same as well. The second reason could be a routine clash. She usually had a different schedule than the others so it would’ve been difficult to work through with it.
At the end of the day we didn’t see how Manon was behaving in its entirety. The show is heavily biased towards the winners right from the start, of course they’re not going to put Manon in that dark of a light when talking about her since having an idol with a terrible reputation is bad for business. We don’t know the exact details, but I do agree with those saying that watching someone be hand picked (not having to audition) break so many rules she was kicked out and then not go to practices often, then blame it all on her work ethic and how she isn’t used to it only for someone like that to win over girls who have busted their asses in performing arts for up to a decade was quite frustrating, and doesn’t paint the group in THAT good of a light, but hiding the rule breaking and the way she’d behave (apparently she had an attitude problem) is slightly better, I guess?
obviously they cut things, but I feel they should have cut that drama because in the end it hurts everyone, both those who didn't make their debuts and those who did
Why did people get so mad at Adela for saying she wanted to see more Slavic representation? People need to realize that aside from racial representation, there's a million other ones based on things like ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc. People just jumped her because she's white, she literally said nothing wrong.
There are faults on both sides. On Manon’s for not attending some training sessions and also on Lara and Sophia for how mean they were behind her back. The fact is they’ve all made up and the fans need to stop the hate. I see so much hate from Lara fans, from Sophia fans, from Emily fans, from Adela fans…. all against Manon. So I’m not sure why people get mad when Manon fans do the same. The toxic fans need to stop and it’s fans of all the girls.
@@Hope-du4gw When you say horrible stuff behind someone’s back that’s mean. If you don’t think so and you act this same way then you may have bullied people without knowing.
Agreed, it's not Manon's fault people choose her, but it is her responsibility to show up for practice and follow the rules all the girls are expected to follow.
fr😭
Which she did once she realised how it affected the others and not just her.
to show up and get the rest of the cast sick, yes yes.
@@m3w0h she didn't show up even before getting covid...watch the documentary
@@97inmyheart50 you don’t know if she was going through something at the time, nor did you know if she HAD covid then, goofball
I definitely don't think the girls are in the wrong for their feelings but I don't think that should've ever gone on camera or public
i understand it perfectly and that's why i don't understand why they posted it? obviously the girls knew they were being filmed but they were being honest with themselves and their mentors. once some of them made their debut with manon, publishing what they said about her, no matter how they felt, can make them uncomfortable and does nothing for their relationship or for the fans
they said multiple times in the doc that they were playing up the drama for views in the western audience. i am part of that audience, and i would never want their confusion and desperation to turn into entertainment
@@rainebows the drama created was during the survival show. Before hand was natural it wasn't created.
That would've been impossible.
@hyuncute ppl will use it against them for years now unfortunately. the entire thing is a mess.
Manon and Wonhee of Illit remind me a lot of each other. They were both scouted not through audition. Both were brought into a Hybe program extremely late. Both were praised for having potential star power. They both got into their groups. They even have the same birthday! 😂 Honestly I think it was smart for choosing both girls because the internet keeps talking about them which is exactly what Hybe wants! They want more engagement and that’s exactly what those girls are giving them.
But Hybe is such a scum for kicking Youngseo out! That girl clearly didn’t leave on her own terms when she tried to audition for Meovv along with Jiwoo but both didn’t get in and i hope she doesn’t give up on her dreams
@@hallooos7585people compared her leaving letter with Le Sserafim’s Garam and the way it was written was more that they both agreed that she could leave. While with Garam they straight said they ended her contract.
There’s a chance Youngseo left on her own or got kicked out. I really don’t think Hybe got rid of her since they promoted her so much on ru next. I was hoping she would come back to Illit and pull an Ahyeon but ever since the news of Meovv, idk what her fate will be.
@@hallooos7585 how do u know what if she leave by her own we don't know
@@skye4942 Well she clearly didnt leave on her own when at the end of RUNext she wanted to show fans that she can do a cute concept but was unable to, and plus she cried and was clearly happy to be in the group, it just doesn't make sense that she left and is back to auditioning to be apart of another group when she was already in a group in the first place
What I think is so ironic about the situation is the public's take on each one. I used Wonhee as an example of why people were validating the girls in Katseye's feelings. It's not that Manon wasn't talented or that they were saying that it's not even a bad thing to point out pretty privilege and double standards but K-pop fans are the only people who are allowed to point that out ig. Obviously the situations aren't 1 for 1 but Wonhee making it and the public calling the voting rigged is the same as the girls complaining bc there were obvious double standards for Manon. I also think there are other takes on this as well but I just find the hypocrisy funny as a whole.
This whole documentary was a roller coaster ride and I feel like they should of released it months ago, instead of now
yay
It takes a lot of time to edit and interview people after the show. I don’t think it is reasonable to expect the documentary to come out sooner.
yeah they should of done it earlier because shes probably changed now but shes still getting hate
@@lawrencenguyen7326I think they mean like an actual survival show in Korea. For example watching the documentary I loved Adela and saw her talent but watching the little weekly missions and THATS IT, Adela did not shine during the actual pink venom video so it’s like ? That could’ve been flipped bcuz she was barely in the spotlight and first mission, I’m not voting for her but she actually had the most talent
❤
Before the show dropped, Manon and Lara did a live where they apologized for what we were going to see and assured us they weren't in that same place now.
This show was two years ago. The girls have had time to bond and I can see they are all truly friends now.
that's what I said at the beginning of the video
@@hyuncute I didn't hear it, but I am glad you mentioned it.
their last live prove this wrong they looked like they are strangers as a group. not the megan dani and lara trio but others
@@ros.b98 They don't have to be BTS in the sense that they are like family and it can be seen and felt. They just need to be close enough to do their job. It is a job.
I know people are saying Manon was stressed or something, but speaking from personal experience I can totally understand the other girls and it’s impossible to not feel frustrated when people don’t show up to team meetings, especially if they’re the one that need it the most.
their frustration was very understandable
Yes, but why take it out on Manon???. It was up to management to set the ground rules and uphold them. They didn’t reprimand Manon for not attending training sessions and by not doing so they set up this resentment. Cos the girls wouldn’t have been mean to Manon if she only missed a couple of sessions due to illness. Fact is they allowed Manon not to attend the training sessions and so she thought it was okay.
I don’t like when people use the excuse well I or I did it so should you. Because your basing it off the fullness on your perception which is wrong. No one has to live up your expectations of them or face up to your expectations if that’s not what it is meant for their life.
I’m sorry these girls were untitled and willing to sacrifice their time and freedom to be something she’s not. Which makes the materialistic. But they mad because she wants to realistic and healthy but because they want to she should do the same.
No lie i am just sharing my opinion but at starting I also like thought that it was unfair and that Manon was terrible that's what I thought but later she explained everything and i felt that she was okay now I stan katseye and feel that she is great and has fabulous talent but still it was pretty unfair i believe that's what the girls thought but hybe next time shouldn't be like that it's sad for the other contestants and freaking unfair
I’ve been on both sides, it sucks either way it goes. It sucks to miss on behalf of yourself and the group, no matter what the circumstance is.
Manon was scouted because she was pretty, we should acknowledge that. She's mentioned she doesn't have a long background in performance. So, her looks got her past auditions. However, I believe Manon could feel the animosity, and that must've felt so alienating and awful. She must've felt like everyone was ganging upon her. 😢
Leave my Yoonchea out of it thank you.
😣😣
So true
Boo hoo. Maybe she should have put in the effort like EVERYONE ELSE was doing. Such a lazy, self-centered girl.
@@nikita.947 Let's be for real, they didn't kick her out then, they won't kick her out now and I don't know why you guys act like they hated her from the get go which wasn't what happened, especially if you watched the documentary. Before they stopped getting along, she was CONFRONTED by her members about her actions and her not changing causes the drift. You're trying to tell me that out of all the 19 girls there, they all just chose to not associate with her or become friends with her? That's just dumb. The numbers aren't matching up. So they surprisingly got all 'mean girls' from different parts of the world, bsfr rn. Plus, that would be messed up. It happened due to her actions and carelessness about the program. You all conveniently leave that part out.
However, I do acknowledge that the shift must've been hard on her and different people cope differently. She should've voiced it to them, but she was probably awkward about it, but I sometimes can't fully get behind her because of how nonchalant she acted towards her nonchalant attitude in the beginning ,but sure, let's just go with 'it was hard'.
I personally get the girls and not so much Manon. Just imagine doing all the work just to be thrown to the side by someone that didn't put in all the work? It's all 'talent' till a pretty girl walks in. It's insane to me that everyone is also calling other girls mean girls when this is what kpop stans fight against during survival shows, but go off I guess. I still get a bit iffy anytime I think about past Manon. I respect her now tho. Coming out and talking to others to get past a problem is such a mature and bold move, but be so fr with yourselves, you probably would've acted like those girls if you were in that situation. I'd like to argue even worse because they handled that situation really well.
I feel felt for Adela, Hinari and all the other members who were upset for not being able to debut even with potential 😢
so sad 😢😢
F them all that smack talking just for them to not debut.. embarrassing 💀
@@Deadlyfacecard well they had the right to smack talk about her back then🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@Deadlyfacecardtheir frustration was understandable since Ive been there at some point (also before you say I'm Manon hater, I just wanna say that I do not dislike her at all, and besides this happened well over 2 years ago😪)
@KUKIS12345 personally, i dont think it's right to smack talk anyone; honor the absent. And that therapy scene kinda just threw me off when trying to see their side so sorry if my comment seems biased
Honestly, I think it's healthiest to stay as neutral as possible in this situation. At the end of the day, Manon is getting a lot of flack right now. She has some die hard fans but I would encourage you to look at the conversation around this subject on all the social media platforms, and you will see that most people are criticizing Manon in defense of Sophia and Lara. It is true that she slacked during training and got a spot in the group anyway. It is also true that her peers spoke and joked about her behind her back. It is all documented in the show. I think it's only fair to acknowledge both truths. If we believe that Lara and Sophia can grow and deserve grace than I believe that we should show Manon the same respect. The way I see it is, the way a lot of "fans" are talking about Manon is very reminiscent of solo stan culture, except they are singling out one member to criticize and deem less worthy of her role in the group/team. If this energy continues in this fandom, the fandom will always be toxic. I just don't understand "staning" a group but disliking one member in the group... I don't understand how anyone can believe that these girls made up and that they all deserve to move on from the things that happen two years ago while they were in a highly stressful situation, and then continue to milk the drama on social media, not caring that it is at the expense of one of the members. The fact is, Manon may not have an ally when it comes understanding her perspective while on the show. She never got a real chance to explain herself on camera, and that is not to say that she has to have that chance, but I think if us KPOP fans are committed to cultivating an environment that is healthy for young stars and fans, this culture of ganging up on idols for INCREDIBLY petty drama (I mean, we're talking not going to practice and being too pretty... it can't get any pettier) has got to stop.
I like your take. Also I've already seen people wish for Manon to be taken out the group?!! And fans being racist.
I honestly wish this document didn't come out now either way early before their debut or later on in their career.
Well said! I completely agree.
I completely agree!!
@@unicornrainbows5456 I don’t disagree but manon was scouted because of her visuals. And she said multiple times that she didn’t have any performing experience. So you have to understand that she probably felt a bit ganged up on.
Well said
I believe the girls had every right to be upset however how they dealt with it. They didn't even deal with it, I wish they'd spoke to her earlier on if it was so frustrating. Rather than throwing shade and letting the frustration boil up.
Didn’t you hear she said they did tell her
… if you watch episode 6 or 7 manon does actually sit with everyone and hashed it out. It was more of Manon’s end to get herself out of her head about not belonging and not being fit, when she definitely did. It was a whole new culture of work ethic and life that she didn’t even knew existed and that the time she spent training actually was something she really wanted. She took accountability and not a lot of people will do that, which is why she looks so much different and confident compared to when she first started
That’s true but also manon she came in real late she didn’t have the training as the other girls who was there already they can’t say she was holding them back because the girls wasn’t doing good even when they had practice for so long it wasn’t until she got there they was doing good it’s not fair for manon she arrived real late and had to adjust to something that’s with anyone if a group of people made friends have a bond and been training for a long time you get thrown in there it will destroy your pride have you thinking you’re not good enough her looks saved her bc if she didn’t have that they still would had trash talk her it wasn’t fair for no one to talk bad about her or be mad be understanding yall had extra training before her and she don’t feel like she fits in she kept saying she shy she don’t feel like she good enough and Sophia tried to say manon wasn’t taking notes she was the only one you seen with a book taking notes they can’t be angry at her at all be angry at the people who brought y’all in and not everyone at once it wasn’t her fault at all
That’s true but also manon she came in real late she didn’t have the training as the other girls who was there already they can’t say she was holding them back because the girls wasn’t doing good even when they had practice for so long it wasn’t until she got there they was doing good it’s not fair for manon she arrived real late and had to adjust to something that’s with anyone if a group of people made friends have a bond and been training for a long time you get thrown in there it will destroy your pride have you thinking you’re not good enough her looks saved her bc if she didn’t have that they still would had trash talk her it wasn’t fair for no one to talk bad about her or be mad be understanding yall had extra training before her and she don’t feel like she fits in she kept saying she shy she don’t feel like she good enough and Sophia tried to say manon wasn’t taking notes she was the only one you seen with a book taking notes they can’t be angry at her at all be angry at the people who brought y’all in and not everyone at once it wasn’t her fault at all
😢
end of the day, manon never trained in anything before and scouted for her looks, she came with her beautiful natural look and captured fans as Hybe and Getten expected she did what she was bought to do, and is still the reason katseye gets attention and as much as they critique her she looks the exact same as the other girls when she has performed every performance
yeah, but i don't think that's the issue at all 😶🌫️
@hyuncute So what exactly is the issue?
I've had female colleagues in the past that were horrible to work with. They come to work late, miss out meetings, often called in sick, and sometimes down right irresponsible and an unreliable team mate. But they never get fired because they're very pretty and always dressed up well, so a lot of managers like them and let these pretty girls get away with everything. So unfortunately, having good looks really does help you get ahead in life, even if you're not working as hard as others may have.
Beauty privilege is real
Or you just sucked at your job in comparison while they still managed to get things done.🤷🏾♂️
@@NoirN3rd😂😂😂
@@NoirN3rd Valid point. I didn't expect this point of view. I appreciate it.
Honestly i think the debut lineup is pretty fair all of the girls are so talented
🤭💗
Yes!! Like even Manon the way she pushed herself, I understand why they took her.
Honestly I didn’t watch the whole survival show but nowadays I really like their songs and check out their videos and everything seems good to me every member is talented and it’s good imo
same 🫶🏻🫶🏻
I Hope Adela is ok. What they did to her was unacceptable and she was really an amazing talent and leader to the other girls
i think she is fine now, she's debuting solo! ⭐️
Really? When?
the document makes manon look like an absolute ass. i don't wanna sugar coat it or start hating on her, but everyone is dancing, working hard and then there's a clip of her just sitting there and saying she's not going today. i understand feeling tired at times, or some mental issues with which you could struggle with, but it just looked like she was not in the mood to go out of laziness. as you said, hybe sucks at making documentaries and i also feel like they might've made manon look like the villain so they can make the fandom more dedicated to protecting the group. it could also very well be that hybe literally made her look worse than that she really was. either way, hybe sucks lmao 😭. hybe is actively sabotaging themselves by making ass documentaries that make people look bad. yikes
I don't want to excuse her behavior, I just want to remind your she's from Switzerland. The work culture there is different. Taking a break is somewhat if a necessity. If they had told her from the get go about the system they're using I think it would've been better. However I did notice the switch after she spoke to Son. She said she was feeling insecure and Son reassured her that they weren't looking for perfection and she took advantage of his response (there was more to what he said) and decided to skip days etc
She is ! Her kind doesn't have proper ethics when it comes to work. Her followers using her race and her face to pitty her😂😂😂😂
@@nandi_m04 so in short you're excusing her behavior 😂😂😂 duh everyone is kicking and you see her drinking whatever that is 😂😂😂
@@nandi_m04 the girls are not the one who is going to adjust to her culture, she's the one who needs to adjust
The documentary showed the reconciling conversation between the girls and also Manon’s comments about how she realized she needed to change her work ethic. It demonstrated growth and conflict resolution. It’s not the fault of those making the documentary if people want to ignore all that and focus more on the conflict and drama.
Manon grew up in school where mental health are important so her school allowed her to miss days of school if she is feeling sick or tired but now she is in a new environment so she did not know that there is no mental health days for dancers or pop stars. so please understand her she is still learning
🥹🫶🏻
then she need to adapt like the rest of the girls
In my opinion the girls had every right to feel that way about manon not showing up but I also get manon cause they’re mainly talking abt it in private and never rlly face to face properly but I feel like they shouldn’t have aired it plus it wasn’t manon fault for getting voted cause she’s pretty and the main problem is they took that out on her
I will say the only thing that should not have come out of this is the anti-blackness from some of the fans towards Manon and the micro aggression that some of the girls used towards her. I just think hybe all around just needs to stop with the documentaries before everyone starts hating their artists. They’re literally 2 for 2 right now with LSRM and now Katseye. They’re sabotaging careers and they’re not even realizing it. 😭
There's even anti-blackness coming from fans defending Sophia. I can understand defending her from hate but being racist?!! Really? People really think that'll help in the situation?
I believe people did see her experience from the Western lense (her being a black women and the reality black women face) so for people to go as far as to insult her race made the internal war worse.
@@nandi_m04 manon fans started dehumanize both Lara and Sophia, we're not going to sit there and act like nothing is happening 😅😅 if only manon stans widen their horizon and have a deep understanding of the story that the docu has been trying to tell none of this would happen 😊
@@nandi_m04 correction! stop trying to associate yourself to manon every black groups have different struggles that doesn't mean she's black western people should align themselves to her. Her experiences is different from black Americans also she's light skin of course the favor was on her side you see a full on black person and that would be a different story 😂😂😂
i don't think any of the girls had anything against manon for being black, there were other aspects of her personality, but i agree with the rest
@@nandi_m04 What anti-blackness are you talking about? This was never about the color of skin but about how bad habits/attitude affects the opinions and actions of other people. Trainees are not the only ones against Manon, even the trainers themselves are.
Here is my only complaint, and it is not based on the girls but the FANDOM itself. You can critique Manon all you want, but to bring anti blackness into the conversation is ridiculous. In the media black people cannot be critiqued without racism being brought up. Talk about her pretty privilege, and her “lack of dedication” (I don’t agree with that but some people say that.)
say it!
That's right. I don't even get why they brought that up since she has eurocentric features herself. The company wanted her because she fits the idealistic standards the company has. It's a South Korean company. Whether they like it or not, the truth is, they prioritize her because she's the perfect visual for a global girl group. Mixed with eurocentric features.
If Manon was so problematic why Hybe didn't get rid of her? They could've done this if they wanted. It's funny because now it looks like they are punishing her for her past behaviour. Very weird and insensitive, in my opinion. But, well, it's Hybe. We can't expect much from them.
I believe they couldn't let her go due to the star quality she has and how she attracts people's attention. They've been wanting her since they saw her.
@@nandi_m04there's nothing attractable about her but her face but the attitude mehhh!🤭
Yes, I also think they wanted her in the group; they could have kicked her out at any moment. Plus, I don’t understand why this is coming up now. Manon is already part of their agency, and if she or the other girls have a bad image, it directly harms the company. I think they simply don’t know how to make documentaries
@@maneater3491 her attitude? She doesn't even have a bad attitude, she just didn't attend classes accordingly and now she has an attitude. You're such a hater and it's sickening. She very much is attractive and no hate or slander towards the girls will be tolerated.
you know her not wanting to go to classes, what is what she had to do, was slowing everyone's process right? the other girls where having a hard time without her presence especially on the dance lessons where there was a blank space
In the end, Hybes knew Manon was gonna bring big bucks home and they were right. The public loves her, she is a great visual for the team, and she has a huge fanbase that would've have cared for the group if it wasn't for her, me included. Regardless of what people say, Manon is doing exactly what she needs to do
In Manons case I really hope she improved her work ethic, I mean even the execs said it, but its not her fault either that she got picked in the end
TBH the girl from Brazil would have been picked if she wasn't exposed for having controversial views
what controversial views? 😳
@@hyuncute Samara was a target of fake news saying she was anti-indian, anti-chinese, zionist, extremist christian, islamophobic and pro-war because she liked stuff on Tik Tok and Instagram in portuguese and people who don't even speak the language took it out of context. First she liked a few videos about street food that seemed to be in India. The thing is, Brazilians are the cleanest people in the world. The average brazilian takes three showers a day(myself included), it's a habit we inherited from our indigenous people. So joking about other countries being unhygienic is common in Brasil, but it's nothing personal against India because we also joke a lot about French people and europeans overall being smelly because they don't take showers and just use perfumes instead. We are usually very respectful about it. Most gringos engage on the joke. We have a french comedian that lives in Brasil named "Paul Cabannes" and he jokes about not taking showers all the time. It's just a silly meme, we know this is a real problem in some places, including even the poorest regions in Brasil, but brazilians we are the kind of people that we believe that making fun about our problems make them easier to bare. So Samara is not anti-indian because if she was, Lara and Ezrela wouldn't be friends with her(they both still follow Samara on instagram, Ezrela likes her stuff frequently and Lara liked Samara's video doing the touch challenge). Second:She liked a video in Tik Tok about the war going on in Gaza and people assumed she was in Israel's favor when she wasn't, the video was just explaining the conflict with reliable information and context but hey I guess wanting to be informed about geopolitics is wrong now. The video wasn't taking Israel's side. Third:She is a protestant christian, so she liked a lot of bible stuff that people were saying was conspirationist and intolerant to other religions when it wasn't. And the anti-chinese allegations is because she liked an Instagram post that her church made listing countries that have high christian intolerance so christians should think twice about viaiting or travelling to and China was included. And anyone who searchs "Persecution of christians in China" can see it's true. Sadly every country has religions that are more accepted than others. Thing is, most foreigners chose to just hate on her instead of searching for the true so most people who aren't brazilian who watched the show still think she's all those things I mentioned when she isn't.
@@hyuncute Samara was a victim of fake news saying she was anti-indian, anti-chinese, zionist, islamophobic, extremist christian and pro-war. She liked things on Tik Tok and Instagram that people who don't even speak portuguese took out of context. The video she liked about the conflict in Gaza wasn't taking Israel's side, just explaining why the war is happening with reliable information and context. The videos she liked about the bible were because she is a protestant christian, but it wasn't anything intolerant to other religions, conspirationist or fundamentalist. Brasil has more than 80% of its population being christian and most people practice the religion actively. She liked on Instagram a post that her church was listing countries that christians should think twice about visiting or travelling to because they have high christian intolerance and China was mentioned and sadly all countries have religions who are more accepted than others, just search "Persecution of christians in China". And about the videos about India street food, Brasil is the cleanest people in the world. The average brazilian takes three or more showers a day. So joking about other countries being unhygienic is common in Brasil. It's nothing personal against India, we do these jokes with europe too, specially France, we say they invent the best perfumes in the world to hide the fact that they are smelly because they don't shower. But most gringos engage on it(like Paul Cabannes, a french comedian based in Brasil, he jokes about not being clean all the time) because we joke about it in a respectful way. We don't mean any harm, because we know It's a real problem in some places in the world(including some regions in Brasil) but brazilians are the type of people that would make fun about our problems because it makes them easier to bare. The infamous "Rir para não chorar"("Laughing not to cry"), we say. Also both Lara and Ezrela seemed to still be friends with her, which they wouldn't if she really had something against indians.
@@hyuncute apparently she was sided with bolsonaro (right extremist political) which made brazilians hate her.
I'm sorry but life isn't fair 🤷🏾♀️ looks definitely matter in the industry not just talent, look at all of your faves. I think the final line up was practically perfect and fit together well, even coming down to the height. The girls that were eliminated wouldn't have fit. They are talented and will be successful with their own separate endeavors, they just weren't meant for the group
ew what a bad take
@PiggiesInTheRain Its not exactly a bad take .......it's the way it was said/commented, we all know how toxic the industry is so YES sadly looks does matter, but aside from that, the girls were most def chosen for their talents, there isn't a single person in this group that I would say is completely talentless or doesn't deserve to be there
@@PiggiesInTheRain cry about it. At the end of the day the person is right whether you like it or not. PD Bang even said it himself that you need to have that star quality.
@@nandi_m04 no one cares about that pig lol
in real life if you miss schedules and don't obey the rules you're gonna be penalised for that lol
Girls frustration is completely understandable. I'm glad the girls spoke about it.
same 🤷🏻♀️
I kinda have to agree a bit. I mean if you don't put the effort in, why should you be in an indrustry where the main thing is effort.
🥹🫶🏻
Because if you’re talented then not as much effort is needed.
I was born and raised and live in Switzerland so I have learned Switzerland is a peaceful country with minimum amount of stress,worry,anger,etc but if I would have come to audition in Korea I would try my best to adapt to Korean culture instead of just trying to make the others adapt to Swiss culture.and honestly,the girls had every right to be upset,manon was doing everything her way tbh.and it wouldn’t be that bad is she skipped 1 class i mean it’s wouldn’t be any form of good but it’s not gonna be that bad ( and I’m not taking manons side in any way rn )
i agree 😭
Yall forget that they cut a lot of things no shade
they should have cut the whole documentary and not released it
Finally a mature view on the whole situation! People online were blowing it up way out of proportion when it really was never that serious because 1. It happened ages ago, 2. the girls are grown and obviously mature for their age so they've most definitely left any frustration or drama in the past, and 3. Manon has grown exponentially since! I think some people must have trouble putting themselves in other peoples shoes or approaching tough situations in a mature way because they were absolutely hating on Lara and Sophia and some hating on Manon. I totally agree that it's super easy to see why some girls expressed frustrations considering many put their lives, education, etc on the line, came all the way from other countries and paid for their flights, and were training day and night for months. Of course anybody would be frustrated, heartbroken, etc. if they came so far and then had to go home while someone who did not put as much effort in as them got to stay. I would have been in shambles, personally. And as for Manon, like you said, she was not responsible for fan voting, and although she could have approached the situation better, it was obvious she came from a different background than the other girls there - she never trained before in dance, singing, etc and she was under the impression it was something you could skip days of like school, and it was also very clear that once she realized she had to put 200% in like the other girls, she did just that! Katseye as we know them are amazing and each and every one of them deserved that spot!
I don't think they hate her, it's just about her actions. They're more than that.
Important life lesson for everybody: Life is not fair and success is not necessarily the product of hard work. But its understandable that this comes as a shock to the young women after having been told for over a year: "You have to work harder, you have to put in the work." Its the same lie people everywhere have been told for years.
I get that. It’s not enough to just say “life isn’t fair” and move on. It’s important to address the issues and find ways to improve or change things.
@@hyuncute what the girls on the show experienced is something that people everywhere in the workplace experience: they put in the hard work, but someone who is liked better by more people and with more luck gets the promotion. Difficult to change that, the rules are not really the rules. But yes, its terrible the way the production lied to the girls and used them all. Its completely unethical.
@@anustern1960 this is so true. One job i worked at I applied for a Shift manager position after being there for 2 years. I did the interview had the references from other departments. The hiring manager sat me down and said "You would be really good at the job, since your technically filling in for it, and doing all the work, but you didnt play nice with the right people, so we picked someone else"
The "someone else" was a new girl that was there for 3 months that did no work but would go on smoke breaks with the hiring manager and their manager.
I said to them "so because I didnt kiss up to you I didnt get the job" They kinda just looked at me and shrugged. The kicker, they asked me to help the girl out and I flat out told them no, they hired her so she has to do it. I left a month later, and about 5 part timers left right after
Lexie was about and received a punishment for her skipping habits while manon still in the show with no punishment and all😂😂😂 sounds favoritism to me
it is weird
@@hyuncute what's weird 🤭?
that some people had the rules applied more strictly than others...
You’re wrong because it was mutual between Hybe and Lexie
@@ellarainbow9741 they clearly just hate Manon and barely comprehended what was happening. I'm sure the person watched the documentary to "prove" Manon to be some villain.
Everyone that watched and was smart enough to comprehend what was there would know that Lexie no longer wanted to be there and it was a mutual agreement. Og commenter seems to discard of that FACT.
2:20 she didn’t show up to practise because she didn’t fell like it, I think that’s what most people get wrong, she has no previous training in dance, her body was probably exhausted. I can relate to her on that point since when I started dancing 4 years ago I also skipped a lot of practise because my body was so tired and exhausted. I had to get used to it, my body had to get used to dancing for hours, since it didn’t need to do that before
they were all tired, there were people with even less training than manon and they didn't skip a day, I understand that she could be tired but it wasn't easy for the other teammates either and it was affecting them
Not my gen so I really dont follow KPop. But the Touch video started showing up everywhere I have to say that Manon caught my attention so here I am. All the girls are pretty but Manon has very distinct features and the way she makes eye contact.
yay!❤️
I think the problem is they wanted her! They chose her already before anyone else. And when it was time for fans to choose they also chose her! She was always gonna make it! He’ll she prob even knew. I LOVE Manon! She is dope but I do agree she still should have came hard even if the role was already hers!
After watching the documentary i think Manon doesn't deserve to be there. Her work ethic and respect to the group was non-existant from the start and it was obvious she was an industry plant from the start and it's unfair to the girls who worked so hard to be there.
🤷🏻♀️ but now she's on the group, so i don't think hating on her is right 😭
@@hyuncute i don't think it's hating when it was her actions to begin with. I'm just literally mentioning manon's actions and attitude in the documentary. The real haters are the one bashing the other members for telling her off of her own actions. Like, it was truly unfair for the girls and it was right for them to voice that out. Anyone in that situation would be frustrated on mason's actions. I know you will be if it happened to you.
And yeah, of course manon will be in the group regardless if she puts in more effort and dedication or not unlike the other girls because she's an industry plant.
@@salem444-s9o It is hating because you're being childish as hell. She missed a few practices, then what did she do? She started working just as hard as everyone else and rapidly improved, so you can't say she doesn't deserve her spot and you can't act like she got in by just sitting on her ass you wierdo.
gurl is privileged
@hyuncute it's not hating. She was stating the truth. Speaking about her lack of skills and unwillingness is the truth. No one is hating her. The girls who got unreasonable hate are Lara and Sophia. They were rightfully upset to begin with, but they managed to work around it and wholeheartedly accepted manon in the group just so the solo stans started to degrade them, calling them names. this fully overshadowed their hard work and raw talent. They even started to villainize their ambition and willingness to stay at the top.
Star power is super important, I say this all the time, take Britney Spears, she is the queen of pop yet her voice is definitely not the best but Britney just had that star power that captivated you and her songs were Al bangers
She is the princess of Pop. The queen is Madonna
@@lyd2460 I definitely agree to that
😒
Britney worked her ass off in every choreo and actively made input in her music, videos and choreo. She was passionate about what she did
@@bornarose11 are you saying they are not, have you not seen them perform, girl bye
Manon was living her normal life on insta and tt etc, she had no prior dancing or singing skills, so when she joined the program she knew she had to play catch up since everyone else had joined like a year earlier. I understand the point of Adela saying she just had a pretty face to get in, but she was flaming Manon every chance she got like why waste your ending on smack talk? Ultimately, I think Manon improved a lot since the start of dream academy in star quality, dancing, singing, etc.
Frankly, fans have been grossing me out with this shit. All of them were wrong. Manon was wrong in the beginning and it made the girls fustrated HOWEVER, you can be fustrated and NOT resort to social outcasting and talking behind someone's back, and you especially don't get to blame them for being liked or picked. Sophia literally tried to portray Manon as wrong for being upset the girls were talking shit about her behind her back because OTHER PEOPLE liked her.
Ya'll really need to check yourselves because you're /acting/ like you have some emotional intelligence by saying you understand why they are fustrated, only to promptly prove you don't because you clearly can't recognize borderline bullying.
Gosh thanks you ! Finally some common sense !
Dramarama lol. One thing about Manon, she’s going to serve face. I think they made a good choice in the end. I see so many new listeners ask about her or join the fandom because of her popularity. Fair or not, she’s doing exactly what they wanted
at first i felt bad for manon cuz she seemed sweet and during the choreography she wasn't given the perfect spot from where she could be seen .. but after watching this video i think that she could have been a little more responsible and now that hybe is gonna do things to her as punishment
i hope she's now doing things well
@@hyuncute yeah me too I hope things are good for her in the future!
I find it strange that multiple comments are ignoring the fact that towards the end of the documentary Manon did start working harder and showing up more. Like yes, she should’ve been more present in the beginning. However, acting like she just never worked on her behavior after she finally was able to get the girls together and talk is very strange to me. Painting her out to be some spoiled brat is not the move y’all think it is. Generally, I think it could’ve been handled better on all sides here, not just Manon herself.
I didn't say she never worked, but honestly it doesn't matter, she did it multiple times delaying her whole team and I simply comment what I see, here the main culprit is HYBE for showing us that, if you want to hear the manon version then ask her, as we don't have it, I comment what I see.
@hyuncute where did I say you specifically were saying that? And where did I say she didn't slow them down with missing rehearsals? I quite literally said it could've be handled better on all sides, not JUST Manon.
Tbh if we were to blame one person it should be Mitra 😬
@@hyuncutethen you need your eyes checked and better media literacy skills.
Totally agree with your comment !
I can understand Manon she was alone
Everyone was talking about her with do not even know what really happened to her they only showed us half of the video just imagine what she have gone through before she decide not to going to class Lara ad sp all talk bad about her what do u exactly her to do if that was u .whenever I don’t feel good in my working place, I don’t feel like going to work because at the end of the day I will be alone I don’t have anybody to speak to. No one want to speak to me.
i really like manon but i would have to agree that she didn't do well at all.
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Girl with the pink hair stick out to me too. she should’ve made the line up
sameeee 🥹🫶🏻
Lets be real, Hybe definetly gave Manon special treatment. They let her miss practices, put her in the strongest groups everytime, while making her the center. If anny other girl did what she did they'd have been out of there easily 😂 they litterally kicked a girl out because they said was skill was way too behind the others and didnt think shed catch up, meanwhile manon was dead last in both singing and dancing the entire show.
너무 이쁘고 성격도 좋아요 마논 사랑해용 ❤
마논은 확실히 스타예요
I have a feeling like manon didn't deserve to debut just cuz of how she acted but ofc it's hybes fault for not kicking her out
I think add public voting is fair and wise decisions because talent aside, you want to make a girl that everyone like so popularity is essential for the girl group. There is alot talent artists in the world but being popular will make success and longevity.
at the end of the day though whatever it is Manon does her job and she does it well period.
🤷🏻♀️
Okay to anyone who says that they preferred Lexie over Manon and when Lexie started missing classes they didn’t get mad at her and it was all favouritism, if Lexie didn’t hate the program she would have debuted, she was an all rounder she just willingly dropped out. Lexie stopped attending classes because she hated the program and hated how everything was ranked and it was solely based on her morals and what she valued. The voting system was almost based on nothing like no one knew what talents people actually like had all they saw was how they looked, and i’m not trying to bring Manon down because I genuinely think she’s gorgeous and belongs in the group, but Lexie wasn’t preferred, she was obviously more consistent and put more effort into it for most of what we saw in the documentary but she decided to drop out… (tbh Lexie and Adela were some of my favs and i almost cried when they were eliminated/left. i love all of the members and contestants though, and all girls of katseye deserve to be in the group.)
At the end of the day, the girls have all moved past this and grown super close to one another. It’s obvious in their lives and behind the scenes clips that they’ve bonded super well and understand each other a lot better.
Manon deserves the hate if she's not going to show up to practice and not follow the rules but still is the most loved one is just so unfair for the others
I think she deserved someone to tell her that it was wrong what she was doing
@hyuncute yeah that's true I agree with that
They shouldn't be mad because they need to rember how they would act if they were her, and also they should worry about themselves because you know your pretty so why worry about people's opinions if you know your pretty, and the leader she gets on my damn nerves about that
It's hard to train with covid. Recovery takes time. They all whined too much about her absence. Anyway, the fans chose Manon to be in the group. That's life. I'm happy she's there. Yo, time to move on people.
okay??
To be honest this group isn't really a K-Pop group it feels like they're just in a K-pop label because K-pop is supposed to be Korean pop it's literally in the name. And there's only one Korean girl.
global groups released by kpop companies can never not be associated with k-pop, because they are kinda directed to kpop fans
@@hyuncute but global groups like XG dont have Korean songs, so how could they called Kpop if they don't have korean songs?
I always wondered this too. I just accepted it because, “times are changing,” but it sorta feels like erasure of culture. Diversity in the idols’ ethnicities is fine, but ever since K-pop became popularized in the west, it seems like it became more about singing songs in English to make money. Why not call them a global pop group instead?
@@SantokiYama erasure of what culture? kpop is literally just the korean language over pop songs created in the west. even till this day they see whatever is hot and poppin then recreate their own with their language over it. culture erasure? no. its called capitalizing on something that works. for decades they've had western ppl make the songs, add advice on mv's and ppl have literally admitted, born and raised in south korea, that they're inspired from the west but not CLAIMING POP. dont try to sound progressive when there's evidence proving kpop has always been open to anyone, they just wanna make it feel like its all inclusive only.
@@SantokiYamaThey were never a Kpop group.
manon is the it girl on this show.
Ma on was only scouted cus she was pretty, let’s make that clear. Talent only took part after the fact.
I can't lie if im being real in life visuals do matter im not saying it is right for any idol to get voted just because they have visuals but the thing is thats reality things like this do happen and its not fair. Like this video says, manon shouldn't be blamed for being voted, but as the video says, the girls have every right to be angry. Fan voting, in my opinion, is not very fair, but that's the reality of the kpop industry and how the company chooses to do thing's
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From the thumbnail i thought it was a Kennedy Walsh video 😂😂😂
After all that was said and done, the girls seem to be doing fine ,and are building a good fan base. I'm happy for them.
yees 💗
I seriously can’t see Sophia and Lara the same anymore 😢
Manon is talented, but she wasn’t dedicating herself. She missed because she was sick and her mental health (she felt inadequate to the others because she started out with a low skill set and zero prior training) not to mention the cultural difference. And no one asked her why she wasn’t there, they just assumed she was lazy and ran with it. She’s a hard worker, she’s talented, and it’s ridiculous. She isn’t favorited in any respect ppl behind the scenes literally sabotaged her image throughout dream academy.
I understand where the other girls are coming from but they should’ve blamed the system they were under not Manon who was just another contestant and had zero to do with the voting system like bffr
Same but I'm relearning to love them. I really don't want to project my unfinished business from the past with similar experiences onto them. I just really wish they had dealt with the issue better and sooner rather than later. Rather than laughing, giving dirty looks and throwing shade at Manon. The girls were so vocal to the camera they had so much potential with resolving the issue on their own without it going down how it did.
I won't dismiss their feelings however I do believe it would be unfair to dismiss Manon's change at the end and her eventually calling everyone for a talk. Though it was supposed to be either the other way around or be issued by the companies training them.
Why Sophia and Lara are being true to their feelings, I can't blame them it's manon who keep doing her own thing making trips on her own that's why she's not in some of their TikToks
@maneater3491 so their true feelings were giving her dirty looks and talking about her behind her back? Villifying her as if she's the main problem? They needed to get a grip
I actually have a newfound appreciation and respect for both of these girls for being the voice of reason when hybe themselves won’t do their job of talking to Manon and reprimanding her. They question why even confront her when they’re both on the top of the class… simple, to address their concerns and frustrations when nobody else have the guts to do so
Y’all cannot be serious did you watch ep 7 Sophia was so nice to her there Manon missed practices, break curfews etc I agree they shouldn’t be isolating her but they’re feelings are valid
being absent to ur group reheasal when thqats ur job is extremely disrespectful, that is not the company's fault, however being lenient to that is, what a mess
They are just jelous because they feel like she isn't qualified and she has it easy. She is the chosen one that's it that is why they resent her it's jealousy and that's an ugly trate and it's showing on thier faces
Well yeah if someone is passing for just being pretty while everyone else is working their butts off in a performance competition, it would be pretty frustrating.
The real ugly trait is you glorifying laziness and visuals over hard work and raw talent. Especially for an industry that expects girls to make an "effort." How old are you to begin with? This is something a little middle schooler would say when they couldn't comprehend a situation above them. Why would the other girls be jealous when the made it there due to their hard work and talent? Especially the ones who are at the top. They never had any reason to be envious of a dozen. They are pissed off because the other girls who deserves to be there are eliminated and the spot was given to an unwilling girl who's visuals are the only thing going for her.
@@unniebunny2551
Ok but she still got the spot so what’s your point?
Think critically about it sis.
I love manom. She’s my favorite member and I look like her alittle bit
Manon was in the group from she joined the program, sorry😂
😭
Tbh i agree she shouldnt have been in the group i think she is talented and deserving of it but other girls were just a little better but there is no point in complaining now since the group has already debuted and at this point complaining could only make Manon feel bad which is just unnecessary negativity since its not like theyre just gonna kick her to the curb and grab one of the other contestants so atp we should just deal with it plus shes gonna get better anyway plus it’s possible the other contestants could debut in another group
why wouldn't the other girls be mad? their friends got eliminated! like Adela for example Megan and Emily were friends with her and everyone thought that she would make it on. She helped everyone when they needed it.
hybe and everything under hybe is never been fair
say it
All the girls are talented but it’s just manons culture since she’s from Switzerland, but it’s not that fair to be judged based on looks instead of talent. Everyone in the K-pop industry is beautiful, so instead just judge it in talent.
Out of topic but I miss newjeans, why did hybe have to make ILLITS a concept so much like newjeans
Manon should have showed up. Anyone who's in a group with a member that's slacking would be equally as annoyed
I think it is best for the trainees to tell how they feel, i would also be frustrated if someone didn’t come to rehearsals and would just go to the pool
same :(
Adela is so pretty though!!!
but şf they didn't show what happened with manon people would've blame the other girls not liking manon one day. because we know thst people won't change and i'm sure she is still doing this kind of stuff and i feel a coldness in the group. we know who is causing at least
but also manon she came in real late she didn't have the training as the other girls who was there already they can't say she was holding them back because the girls wasn't doing good even when they had practice for so long it wasn't until she got there they was doing good it's not fair for manon she arrived real late and had to adjust to something that's with anyone if a group of people made friends have a bond and been training for a long time you get thrown in there it will destroy your pride have you thinking you're not good enough her looks saved her bc if she didn't have that they still would had trash talk her it wasn't fair for no one to talk bad about her or be mad be
understanding yall had extra training before her and she don't feel like she fits in she kept saying she shy she don't feel like she good enough and Sophia tried to say manon wasn't taking notes she was the only one you seen with a book taking notes they can't be angry at her at all be angry at the people who brought y'all in and not everyone at once it wasn't her fault at all
I think manon was neither the only one who came late nor the last one to arrive, and it doesn't matter if you don't have any training, even less if you don't show up for classes, no one had it easy
Agreed
Manon was scouted a month after the training began and she was trained separately for 3 months before she was introduced to the girls so no she didn't come in late. The people that came in late are Hinari's group
In my opinion, the girls had a right to feel frustrated because Manon once said that she wouldn’t go to rehearsal because she felt very sore or she just wasn’t in the mood. Most of the girls are also sore and most of them are tired and worn out because of all this training, they are still able to train and apply efforts.
Honestly I’m surprised that for once a black girl is given pretty privilege that you’d normally see other races get.
I don't know what you're getting at with your comment??? she's pretty, period.
@@hyuncuteI think I get what this comment is saying. Black women are typically stereotyped online and are seen as "unattractive". They get lots of hate both online and in real life, so it's refreshing and surprising to see a change is what they're saying.
Everybody can get pretty privilege
To be honest the staff should of set some rules because they expect her to show up and if they dont than there is a problem. As long as they fixed this rough patch now then its all good. They made such a amazing debut
Mqnonis actually my bias in KATSEYE i love all the girl ofc
that's okay!! so cool
MANON HAD COVID WHEN SHE SKIPPED CLASSES THIS WAS IN 2021
Where did you get that information from?
@@hyuncuteevb knows this. It's public info you can find on the net💀
It's all over twitter and every social media discussing the contest, so why are you so critical about this information? But quick to believe Manon is lazy, when Song himself (the judge of the show) said Manon was the most improved. 🤔
Lazy while being most improved lol, I guess that shows how naturally talented Manon is
@@hyuncuteIt was in the docu
@@Frenchii91 actually, this is not the true. The first trainees didn't even train in 2021. They started in 2022, to be exact it was in may which was supposed to be Adela's graduation. In april, she was still in school and thought she is about to graduate in May, but they called her in and she dropped out like week before due to the training program. There are literally pictures on her IG with her class in robes in april 2022. Ever since May she is posting from US. As far as I remember, Manon had covid after the mission 1 and that's why she couldn't go to Korea with girls and wasn't at first elimination. In commentary of misson 1, judges are actually talking about that Manon is missing rehearsals and they need to see comitment. Also that is why Manon is isolated during mission 2 announcement. Althogh, it was actually shown in documentary too that she messaged them she had covid before first elimination.
I feel like manon shouldn't have debuted because (according to the documentary) manon joined later after the whole project started and like she just wasn't giving as much effort as others that didn't debuted and she didn't have the teammate energy.She debuted because she was pretty
All this situation is soo damn stupid i mean she debuted that's the most important part and sryy but never expected that Sophia would talked behind Manon's back i mean its such a weird thing but anyway manon still my fav even if y'all are hating on her she's pretty and talented the other members too and how could I forget all the nonsense adela said 😂. and how could be manon's fault if you had being eliminated like wthh😂😂
yeah idk why all this was released tbh
They are in a group meeting with the therapist which is a safe space for them to air out their frustrations, I didn’t see that as talking behind her back, and as you heard from her, she, as the appointed leader at the time, spoke to Manon numerous times already but she just go about her ways. Also maybe if she would just show up, they would’ve talked to her earlier…I think I just resonate more on the girls who were working their butt off and never got credit for it, coz they don’t consider them as “the standard”
@@Riei143 she didn't speak to Manon. Manon spoke to her. Sophia might've had that leader quality from the start but she did lack the ability/skill to lead a resolution. Manon found comfort in approaching Sophia and telling her she was upset they kept on saying things behind her back and instead of laying everything out in that moment she kept quiet and saved it for the therapy session.
And the girls were always credited for their talents and skills. Just not by the public accordingly.
@@nandi_m04Nope. In the therapy footage, Sophia said Manon knows they’re frustrated and that they’ve talked about it. You should rewatch it.
Bro.They should of sat down and talked abt their feelings.but Manon would’ve would of felt that all her friends were against her.If Manon DIDNT want to come to practice because of stress and the others still came even though they were also in stress Manon has different feelings and u guys can’t be saying it that stress isn’t a reason to not come to practice.If Manon was stressed she probably felt. Overwhelmed and didn’t feel like coming. Pipe down 💀💀
She said she sick and sorry about that but she shouldn't be sorry about that I can see that Manon is responsible 😢
sorry for her team because they couldn't practise right without ther
i think i know, the reason they give training and not just 'sign up for a competition show where fans will vote' is when you watch K-pop shows, many of them have been training for years, that's why they give training to this show cause not all around the world have training for this. and that is why they don't tell the girls who participate about the competition show or they will maybe leave the training and its getting harder to find the contestants
I have a weird feeling that the girls were already pre selected and the whole survival portion was just to make a show out of it.
oh
It's giving jealously and nothing else.
but did I lie?
then why not blame the company??? yes manon was in the wrong but the company was too and so were the girls just a little bit, everyone could've handled the situation differently. why is it manons fault the company scouted her and she didn't audition? it's not her fault at all that the company just threw her into a game and she didn't know how to play and it's also not her fault the company played favorites. everyone is improving now, and if the ACTUAL members can move on why can't other people 😭
i said that the main problem is hybe
Manon just having her happy life doing modeling having simple career of her own then there is hybe Dm her and put her in a very competitive world 😅 now she is being the center of the drama 😂 wow nice
Nobody mistreated that girl
Yes. Lara and Sophia were mean and spoke behind her back. I’m not saying she wasn’t at fault for missing some training sessions, but that’s no excuse for how the girls channeled their frustrations. If anything they should have taken it out on management, not on Manon.
@@LB-ih7hn they clearly spoke to her as said by Sophia but Manon wasn't ready to ready to accept it. They were frustrated and felt it was unfair which should be understandable
We're not getting the full picture here. How long were the practice sessions for, and how many days a week were they? Kpop compamies exploit their talent and guilt them into thinking they need to practice no matter what and push past injuries. Adela said in a reddit AMA she practiced from 8am to 9pm everyday in dance and vocals. That is an insane schedule for 2 years and not healthy.
We see several girls with injuries and its concerning to think how much they were practicing to get them. Lexie had hip surgery at the ripe age of 20 and says she'll never be able to dance all out again.
Several kpop idols mentioned sustaining injuries during training such as Kai and Lay from Exo and their back injuries because they overdid it. Idols have fainted on stage from exhaustion and forced to perform with injuries.
I get the girls' frustrations, but I want to see how their practice schedules were and how many Manon missed before judging. It might be that the girls were exploited and didn't realize it. Regardless, it shouldn't have been the girls' responsibility to reprimand Manon, but the program directors. Yet Missy said in an interview that attendance for practices weren't mandatory so that's a contradictory message and probably the heart of the issue.
she signed a contract to be there, if she didn't agree she shouldn't have signed it, I understand that some companies exploit their artists, but it is a problem that should be eradicated from the root and not harming your colleagues by taking justice into your own hands if that is manon was trying to do
@hyuncute That's not what I mean. What I'm curious about is if she skipped practice to prevent injury from too much physical activity. You can overwork the body, as seen by Lexie, Emily, Megan, and Samara. Lexie will.have to deal with that injury for the rest of her life. Emily was still dancing in pain.
Overall these girls were exploited and manipulated into thinking their practices of overwork and being lied to were ok. Don't get me started in their contract. Brooklyn straight up asked if they were gonna be on a survival show and the execs said no. The execs did that because they knew if they told the truth from the beginning, 1) some of the girls would have never joined, and 2) some of the girls wouldn't have overworked themselves to injury for a popularity contest.
I like how people are acting like all the girls did not talk things out and resolved the conflict, this is the group they have proven that they are talented, now get over it, bunch of drama queens making videos for what ???🤦♀️
0:33 have you even stopped to watch the first minute of the video? watch it 0:33 what did i say?
@@hyuncute watched the whole thing, my point still stands
I honestly feel like her owning up to her team was real and enough for me to think she deserves the opportunity still. At first I felt like she was trying hard before she got with the other girls then I was like what’s going on girl why you not going to rehearsal and also you literally get to stay off site with your family. (Still think that was unfair) but it takes a lot to admit when you’re wrong and to listen to people throw it at you and just listen so I liked that a lot. She has a good attitude about it.
An Unbiased Analysis of Manon in KATSEYE.
1: Yes, she is benefiting from pretty privilege. Why? Because she was already popular on social media and that is needed to sell an image and music in KPop. Every Kpop group has an ultra pretty group member. Unfortunately, that comes with some unfair privileges. The label knows that removing Manon will literally end the group. It's up to Manon to choose how she will wield this power. Only time will tell.
2: Yes, she missed a lot of practices, which left the other group members floundering. She has since acknowledged her indiscretions and apologized. She was mature enough to address the group face to face with this. They have since moved on, and you should, too.
3. Her talents ARE being downplayed. Only two members of this group can really sing. The rest, including Manon, can barely carry a tune. Especially when singing live. Kpop has never and will never be about great singing. Every single girl in this group can dance. Including Manon. As long as you can follow choreography well, you can dance. Raw dancing talent comes out when you can dance without choreography, which is not required nor needed in a K-pop group.
3: Is her being placed in the back for most of Debut's routine, petty punishment, or racist? Maybe. I think we can all admit that 6-member formations are difficult. The best way to fix this is to hire a choreographer who has experience with large formations, like Paris Goebel. Whomever they are using and whoever approved it is at fault. This still doesn't excuse why Manon is hidden throughout the routine. It is very possible that the choreographer did this purposely because she doesn't like Manon. Maybe for making her adjust her routines so often during her absences, or because she doesn't like pretty girls, or because she's Black. Who knows? The best solution to this problem is to get a better choreographer.
they did live vocals in their practice, and only Sophia sounded the same, so who are your 2/6 bc although the others didn't sound the same, their voices were very stable
I agree with you for the most part but I think the girls each have decent voices. Lara's voice stands out the most, to me, but I do like the other members' voices.
Actually, I think they put her in the back because her movement in formations is still mediocre and her moves are a bit stagnant. I noticed it a lot during the debut performances. She’s just not on the same level as the other girls right now, but with time, she’ll get there.
Fair and in depth analysis🌟
For your last point it is possibly because though manon is a decent dancer, she is the weakest one out of them. She did better in touch and is now doing decent in debut too due to practise but probably the time they must be filming she may have not been keeping up well with the others.
People like Lara too aren’t exactly dancers but the girl has learnt how to keep up well. Manon is eventually doing the same as well.
The second reason could be a routine clash. She usually had a different schedule than the others so it would’ve been difficult to work through with it.
At the end of the day we didn’t see how Manon was behaving in its entirety. The show is heavily biased towards the winners right from the start, of course they’re not going to put Manon in that dark of a light when talking about her since having an idol with a terrible reputation is bad for business.
We don’t know the exact details, but I do agree with those saying that watching someone be hand picked (not having to audition) break so many rules she was kicked out and then not go to practices often, then blame it all on her work ethic and how she isn’t used to it only for someone like that to win over girls who have busted their asses in performing arts for up to a decade was quite frustrating, and doesn’t paint the group in THAT good of a light, but hiding the rule breaking and the way she’d behave (apparently she had an attitude problem) is slightly better, I guess?
obviously they cut things, but I feel they should have cut that drama because in the end it hurts everyone, both those who didn't make their debuts and those who did
Why did people get so mad at Adela for saying she wanted to see more Slavic representation? People need to realize that aside from racial representation, there's a million other ones based on things like ethnicity, nationality, religion, etc. People just jumped her because she's white, she literally said nothing wrong.
I didn't understand it either, that's why I'm defending her.
Don’t blame Manon, blame the producers lol..
i blame hybe
New Subscriber💙😸
thanks 🫶🏻🫶🏻
Fans will always have their favourites. Thats not Manon's fault
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There are faults on both sides. On Manon’s for not attending some training sessions and also on Lara and Sophia for how mean they were behind her back. The fact is they’ve all made up and the fans need to stop the hate. I see so much hate from Lara fans, from Sophia fans, from Emily fans, from Adela fans…. all against Manon. So I’m not sure why people get mad when Manon fans do the same. The toxic fans need to stop and it’s fans of all the girls.
How is any of it mean tho?
@@Hope-du4gw When you say horrible stuff behind someone’s back that’s mean. If you don’t think so and you act this same way then you may have bullied people without knowing.
@@LB-ih7hn Sophia talked to Manon about it. Their complaints towards Manon was shared to the councilor to which Sophia said that she confronted Manon