I gotta say. After looking through your flicker photos, I'm pretty floored. I wish I had bikes like that going through my place. You have some incredible bikes.
Scrap the Tillotson. If you dont want to put a s&s on it ,how about a bendix? I have a 72 flh with a bendix. My 70 xlch I had years ago had a Tillotson. Worst carb I ever had out of 14 Harleys since 1973.
Mr. Hunting Harleys, I just wanted to say thank you for your informational videos. I find it a great pleasure to watch a man enjoy what he loves doing. That is, searching for Harley Davidson motorcycles that represent different time periods of the motor company's history. Please keep up the great work and commentary's. You speak to us personally like you were our neighbor. Thank you.
everyone is gonna tell me Im wrong for this but here goes. A Mikuni Constant Velocity carb would make a world of difference with that bike. Easy to start and it wont stall. Not to mention elevation changes wont effect how it runs with a CV carb. I know it would not be factory original but at times thats a good thing. But thats a very good looking and impressive machine regardless.
I remember my 1972 Super Glide being really fast off the line but when I also picked up a '73 FLH Dresser, man that thing was slow! I think the gearing in the old 4-speed tranny was also different between the two. That old '72 Super Glide was a kicker only, no electric start, and it was one of the most dependable bikes I ever owned, always started by the 2nd kick, even in 40 degree weather!
15000 units to 100000 units in one year! so it was amf that created the huge Harley craze that continues today. in highschool the Harley dealer was in two rooms at the end of a bulding next to the railroad tracks. now it looks like tajmahal.
even putting a Keihn on it like the later Harleys would a great improvement . If I bought that bike, the first thing I would do would be to put a new set of plugs and points in it .
And the zenith carb. S&S would be better. But zenith or bendix,I believe their the same would be better than the till. Had a till on my 70xlch. Worst carburetor ever!!
Adam Stein, a proper tune up did wonders for this bike. I took it to Larry Suttle, TWICE, each time it came back running worse. he de tuned it and charged me money, TWICE
I also have a 1970 Flh. I bought from my Dad. We are currently in the process of restoring it to close to original. I was wondering if you had any information on how I can find the original paint color like the one that is in your video? We really want to make it look as close to original as possible. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I don't know how to reply directly to your comments. So it's probably hard to keep track of my replies. You definitely know what your doing when it comes to these bikes. I want to be clear I was never disputing that. I've watched other videos of yours. Some great bikes. I would give anything to own that 39 Indian hillclimber.
Beautiful bike! Didn’t this bike come with the bead on the top half of the windshield? Maybe it was replaced. My 74 had the bead on the original top half. I wish I still had it. Lol
Nice Classic Harley Bike. Congrats. P.S. I hope you kind folks fed that little stray black cat in the background. Spay and Nueter PLEASE.. Thanks for the ride !
Thank you for responding. always heard how badly made the AMFs were. Do you think they were better, worse or about the same quality as pre-amfs? Easy Rider is a cool movie but Fondas bike in the movie Wild Angles was all that.
Turn signal wires run through the handlebars as did the throttle cable. The front brake light switch showed up in 1970 although a few of the later productions ‘69’s did as well. I own both a ‘69 and ‘70 model FLH and have researched them both extensively. The ‘69 came with the front turn signal brake switch wire through the handlebar but my ‘70 did not ( like the one shown here). I went ahead and drilled the handlebar and ran it inside the bar like my ‘69, just a cleaner look.
That's the kind of bike I dream about finding in a barn. I live in ma. Those colors are instantly recognizable to me. Damn state police. Haha. Very cool bike.
I have a question. The turn signal button.. The wires run externally? I've seen both internal 3 position switches and external wiring. Factory is external?
that bike is gone. Many things, like spot lamps, turn signals, were added on after the bike was build at the factory. HD offered externally bolted on the handlebar switches for these add ons
15,000 to a 100,000 units "overnight boom". You need to read a book or two my friend. Harley didn't start making units well into the six figures till the end of the 1990's. I do like your videos though, keep up the good work.
AMF bought a company that was worn out, out of touch and ready to go out of business. At the time, the big three in Japan had a tremendous and successful marketing campaign and AMF was able to capitalize on this and the success of the movie Easy Rider and the magazine Easy Rider's. IF HD had just waited 2-3 years and let Willie G inherit the company instead of having to lead a group of investor's to buy the company back in late 82, history would of been different.
long gone. Some hydraulics can sit all winter and be fine, other's have issues in a month or two. This bike sat repeatedly for years. This is 2014 and the bike is a 1970. 44 years... and low miles
I read about 7500 FL's and FLH's total for 70....It wsnt until 72 that they really started building bikes. And Im sure that can be made to run much better, lol!
Me and my buddies watch his vids and we wait until the bike starts and Todd explains why it only will start a certain way, usually after many attempts to start the bikes. I no some bikes have a trick start method but Jesus Christ,lol
absolutely all the hard starting bikes shown were either started up prior to a tune up after a long time of sitting, or improperly tuned by the mechanic, Larry Suttle, I had working on a lot of them.
I believe now believe 1970 was a split year meaning harley was bought out by AMF in july 1970 also meanig that harley davidson did build some bikes the first part of the year I owned a new 1970 FLH electric glide in 1970 tilson carb put glass packs on it agreed it was a bitch to start but, after warm up it didn't spit and cut off like this bike ran great had it until 1979 maybe 40 something years has alot to do with the way it runs the gas we are getting these days sucks but, mine ran fine after start up and getting warmed up lots of great time I still own the 1979 low rider that I traded it in on and it was and still is a great bike I love shovels! Thanks very interesting harleyben
It was 1969 that was the "split" year. Late models made in 1969 were actually made under the AMF banner. However, not until late 1971 did AMF put a sticker on the tank above the tank badge announcing to the biker world in such a manner that they owned HD
a further "note of confusion" on Harley 1970's numbers... I am not at all sure when HD started this. BUT, by 1977, mid year, the FXS was introduced. At this time, and possibly as early as the 1st FX model in 1971, a new big twin model started with 10,001. IE< the 1st mid year 1977 FXS was 10,001. have not owned enough of the early FX's to figure out their number sequence. But I have owned enough of the 1977 and later FXS models and at least when they introduced the 1977 FXS, this is what they then did. Different models of big twins at least started their own number sequencing. I have no idea if that applies to Sportster's or not. I have personally owned 1977 FXS 10,057 and I know who ownes 10,001 1977 FXS.
One more note. Don't be upset with me and my curiosity. I am not questioning your knowledge on these bikes. It far exceeds my knowledge. I can't even begin to understand the scope of your knowledge and experience with these bikes.
Todd you seem to have had more hands on Harley experience than anyone. What are the differences between an FL and an FLH in 1970? I heard you say in one of your video's that most FL's were police bikes. Weren't FL's a lower comp ratio? Seems like police like high performance, usually. Do the 2 bikes look different? Thanks
The difference between the two depends on the year in question. In 1970. FLH meant full dresser with tons of options, think Electraglide. The FL, while still an Electraglide, was the stripped down version. The early FLHs in the 50s had different pistons, heads (they were factory flowed!) And a race cam. Finding a complete one today near impossible as the shops stole the FLH components off their customers machines
Thanks for the quick reply. I was hoping you would see it someday. What did they strip down? I have a 1970 Fl. Mine is electric start only. Were there 1970 FL specific parts like the battery cover? Because what is on mine looks different than the 70 FLH's that you have shown in your video's. I'm looking to make mine a little more correct for the year where I can. Right now I need a set of heads for a 1970. Did FLH and FL use the same head? What I have is a bad spark plug hole and a later model rear cylinder head. Great videos! Those vintage original machines you find are truly beautifulI! I really appreciate the help.
Think tour pack, windshield, all the bagger stuff FLH. FL without, usually a solo seat. Same heads. Looks was simply adding bagger stuff, same base bike 1970
Thank you for that info. The prior owner must have added all the bagger stuff on this FL. It even has a fairing. I got it from his estate so no asking the actual owner. He had it since 1974. That was all I found out except that he loved his bike more than his family. They hated the bike. Kind of sad. Thanks again
So say 2a10001h0 is a flh. And 6a10002h0 is a sprint. And 2a10003h0 is a flh. Just because the 3rd bike is a flh, it doesn't mean there were 2 flh models made before the bike numbered 2a10003h0. You get what I mean? I'm not trying to argue. I love these old bikes. I want to understand what you know, and let people know what I know, or think I know until someone tells me otherwise.
all models of a given type, IE big twins are one model, Sportsters another, little Italian's another (possible more then one) model (those, I never paid attention to). Start at an initial production of 1001 1969 and earlier and 10,001 1970 and UP. IE< there is a Sportster AND a big twin with 10,001. BUT I cannot say if it is a 2A 1A or a 3A or a 4A. There are just two 10,001's. One for the big one and one for the small one. got it?
yes and no. AMF dramatically increased production. Ever wonder why there are 100 shovel's for every Pan? This is why. AMF SAVED Harley. NO AMF NO HARLEY
Tod, wouldn't you agree they increased production at the expense of quality? If Willie and the workers didn't take back the company I feel Harley would have went the way of the Indian, just my opinion. Also, the advent of the Evo engine really was the saving grace of Harley. Even now the Evo is regarded as the best engine Harley ever produced, pretty much bullet proof, simple design, that is able to be modified for performance pretty cheaply with bolt on parts. Whats your opinion of the Evo?
midlantic1 I agree with those statements 100%. The EVO, in my personal opinion, was the best motor ever yet produced by the company. Feels like a real Harley, runs like a new 2014.
HuntingHarleys Well I agree that the evo was the best motor produced by harley but, not sound wise nothing to me sounds like a shovel with 40 inch drag pipes slash cut ends my 79 low rider which I hate myself for customing to harleyben way which I do everything that way, is 84 inch 40 inch pipes and even the evo riders in 98 at daytona bike week not one but, everyone I meet at less a 1000 stated it was indeed the best sounding harley they have ever heard 2 steps above a stock cam s&s carb never and being honest never left me even got me home on 1 cylinder once its in my will this bike goes to my son and he will never sale it great page thanks for posting it goodluck harleyben
Also going to so many bikes,meant a lot of trainees building bikes, Non quality control is inherent in a situation like that, And laying all that work on theyre parts companys too ,double shifts,tired people, Rejetting is essential though on most harley carbs after amf bought them because at the time the feds got in it on the emissions end too ,on and on .
I mistyped ax. I meant sx. For American built Harley's in 1970. These are the numbers. Model XLH: 3,033 Model XLCH: 5,527 Model FL: 1,706 Model FLH: 5,909 Model GE: 494
Whoever supplied you with those production numbers are incorrect. Here is another 1970 2A model www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/6732951251/in/set-72157628959380775 During the production period of 1970 - 1980, 2A is an FLH 1200 and 1A is an FL 1200. In 1970, most 1A's were Police bikes and most 2A's civilian bikes. Just these two FLH's from 1970 show that you were misinformed
I don't know. Those numbers are from Harleys records. I can't say for sure. I would bet the numbers were spread across every bike made that year. Since the first 2 vin #s designate the model. 2a for flh. Even sidecars had a designation.. The sprints. The ax models. Everything. So you won't find a xlch and a flh with the same #.
Your forgetting, there are FL and FLH models (for sake of "ease" 'we' often call both big twin models FLH's, which is actually incorrect). These in 1970 are the two big twins made that year. Both XL and FL designations, regardless if they were XL, XLH, or XLCH, or FL or FLH, started with 10,001 starting in 1970. 1969 (and earlier) started with 1001. The 1st letter / number combination started with 1970, along with the ending H and number for the year, IE 1970 being H0 and 1979 being H9. 1980 was the only year of the J0 designation. 1981 started with 1HD1 as AMF knew "Harley" was being bought back. The number's do not lie on OP bikes. The very fact that this one is number 2A23020H0 www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/9140762362/in/set-72157634334643498 shows that whoever told you that in their historical department is incorrect. IF they had started with 1001 as you were told, then this would of been the 22020th one off the line in 1970 and 1970 production would have exceeded 60,000 units!! Their modern history is full of flaws an errors. Often, re written to make today's company look better. For example. the 50th anniversary models were 1954 AND 1955. That is because there were NO bikes made in 1903, and actual production of anything more then a prototype did not happen until 1905. But a 100th year anniversary edition for 2003 sure sounds good doesn't it? I can safely say I have owned more Shovel's then nearly anyone since production stopped and few of those other people ever bothered to understand the bikes they owned and re sold. I have had many higher numbered 1970 FL models over the years. The FLH was a more limited production then the FL, yes, but BOTH were made throughout the 1970's. One has to count total big twin and Sportster production for all models.
the quality of the AMF era has to do with the people on the line building the bike. There was tremendous resentment inside HD by the employee's that AMF had bought Harley and a lot of internal sabotage. Assuming the bike was actually built right, an AMF Shovel was as good or better then any other HD in previous history. Unfortunately, the factory sabotage was quite prevalent to the point that AMF and Shovel's got a bad reputation.
what I learned in 91-92 at mmi Harley was that amf bought a company that was in the stone age. same tooling. same machinery for40 plus years. no innovation ect. the quality of the metal was sub par and porous. from what ive seen AMF saved em but at the price of being compared to bowling pins. BTW I have a 70 flh that runs better than my 96 dyna with 18k. thinking metal chip gold is original. bought from guy who got her in 1970. runs like a top at 7000 ft altitude with Bendix
as I said, HD's own record's are not correct. THAT is why I don't ask them. I simply buy enough bikes to try and figure out what REALLY happened. Additionally, even the best books on the subject are far from complete, or accurate. and... unfortunately, since they try and depict themselves as being accurate, often they end up destroying the real history by idealizing what they think happened instead of what actually happened. Thus, people constantly correct their OP bikes to be the standard for the judges "of the day".
+HuntingHarleys i have one in my hand as i am writing this and where does it say Smith? i am looking all over and all that is see is stewart warner 9999999 made in use
+Sean o then you have the late 1971 or possibly a 1972 Speedo. Does the speedo your holding have just the bar and shield, or does it say Harley Davidson?
+Sean o it appears we are both correct. I chased down the pictures I took of this machine (I sold it a long time ago) and it does have the later version which is Stewart Warner on this machine (so evidently the speedo was replaced) www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/9140791310/in/album-72157634334643498/ The vast majority of the bar and shield speedo's were Smiths. Smiths also made them for HD for the Sportster and as an accessory Tachometer.
+Sean o I just took these pictures of some of the Smiths products made for HD. One set are for an era Sprint, two other are the Tach's I mentioned www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/albums
+Sean o you are both correct and incorrect. The ones that just have a bar and shield on them, used 1965ish through 1971ish were made by Smiths. Prior to that and after that they were Stewart Warner
So I did more research. as far as I know. They didn't number each model type seperately. Total in 1970 including Italian is 28,850 For shovelheads the #s go 1A 10001 H0 to 1A 26609 H0 2A 10003 H0 to 2A 26625 H0 FL: 1,706 *(shovel) FLH: 5,909 *(shovel) XLH: 3,033 (sportster) XLCH: 5,527 (sportster) GE: 494 M-65 Sport: 2.080 SS-350: 4,513 MLS: 4,059 ERS: 102 MSR-100: 1,427 grand TOTAL: 28,850 Show me a sportster and big twin with the same #. I will bow down to you. Or show me any 1970 Harley with #s exceeding the ones stated.
Why don't you call me? 661-904-8512. We "know" 1969 big twin production was around 15,000 units. We "know" AMF doubled production, immediately. Your figures show the same number's made in the 1950's and prior to WW11. Even if HD "said" this is what they made, I do not 'buy it". HD has been known to not tell the truth about their own history, FACT.
while HD did not restart numbering sequences between Big twin models. IE< FL, FLH, FLE. They did always start at 1001 prior to 1970 and 1970 - 1980 started the number sequences at 10,001. The higher numbering sequences was because of the higher production anticipated by the company. XL (Sportster) models also started with 1001. The did not include big twin and small twin numbering together. IE, a 1001 Big Twin and a 1001 Sportster were both made. I have owned many 1969 big twins with 15,000 and higher number's. Not just one or two. Thus, you are incorrect in stating that only 15,000 units of small and big twin's were made in 1969. This 1970 has a production number of 23020, thus the 13020th one off the line. I have owned many OP 1970's over the years, many with much higher production number's. Production of 1970 big twin's, based upon bikes I have personally owned, and this is MY best guesstimate, is roughly 30,000 units. That then would be a rough double in production from 1969.
THANKS !!!! DO YOU HAVE WEB SITE !!!! I BUY N SELL OLD SCOOTERS FROM 1980 BACK N HAVE LITTLE BUSINESS CALL " OLD IRON " !!! I CHANGED MY CARB OVER A S&S !!!!! I HAVE A GREAT OLD SCHOOL CHOPPER U WOULD LIKE !!!
when these bikes sit around for a long time, the lifter's can take a bit to bleed back up. If they were high mileage, generally they are no longer original paint
No matter how original it is,or how nice it looks ,it's still a piece of shit shovelhead..absolute junk.put a S&S carb on it and its still junk.they are not meant to be ridden far distances.just around town.top ends last maybe 60 thousand miles or so then they smoke.valve guides,rings etc..buy a evo..i put 360,000 miles on mine with one top end.i got T boned going 60 is the only reason it didnt have 500,000 miles..at 360,000 miles i still had original starter.clutch lasted 270,000 miles..
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I gotta say. After looking through your flicker photos, I'm pretty floored. I wish I had bikes like that going through my place. You have some incredible bikes.
that is only a partial depiction of only 2 years of my bikes
I know that feeling of starting those damn things.
Scrap the Tillotson. If you dont want to put a s&s on it ,how about a bendix? I have a 72 flh with a bendix. My 70 xlch I had years ago had a Tillotson. Worst carb I ever had out of 14 Harleys since 1973.
Mr. Hunting Harleys, I just wanted to say thank you for your informational videos. I find it a great pleasure to watch a man enjoy what he loves doing. That is, searching for Harley Davidson motorcycles that represent different time periods of the motor company's history. Please keep up the great work and commentary's. You speak to us personally like you were our neighbor. Thank you.
Beautiful motors ! Not many that beautiful left. To bad it hasn’t been ridden more . Ride it ! You won’t live forever !
everyone is gonna tell me Im wrong for this but here goes. A Mikuni Constant Velocity carb would make a world of difference with that bike. Easy to start and it wont stall. Not to mention elevation changes wont effect how it runs with a CV carb. I know it would not be factory original but at times thats a good thing. But thats a very good looking and impressive machine regardless.
Had a Mikuni on my 76FLH and it ran great, no problems at all.
I won't argue that. Its better than the Tillotson. That carb sucked.
Cool ride they were good escape bike from Dallas to air port in 1963
I remember my 1972 Super Glide being really fast off the line but when I also picked up a '73 FLH Dresser, man that thing was slow! I think the gearing in the old 4-speed tranny was also different between the two. That old '72 Super Glide was a kicker only, no electric start, and it was one of the most dependable bikes I ever owned, always started by the 2nd kick, even in 40 degree weather!
Probably had a Bendix carb on her, VERY reliable when new
3:12 - So happy you honked the horn...congrats!
15000 units to 100000 units in one year! so it was amf that created the huge Harley craze that continues today. in highschool the Harley dealer was in two rooms at the end of a bulding next to the railroad tracks. now it looks like tajmahal.
NICE RIDE!!!!
it looks great
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!
Wow found my new go to channel ty
Also. I have a 1970 flh. I love it. My starter button does the same thing. You have to push it just right.
Harley fl family one of the BEST
The 71fx is something I've been searching for for years.
never had a stock one, just lots of chopped ones. people always want WAY too much for the stock 71 FX's. Had a few of the 72 FX's
even putting a Keihn on it like the later Harleys would a great improvement . If I bought that bike, the first thing I would do would be to put a new set of plugs and points in it .
And the zenith carb. S&S would be better. But zenith or bendix,I believe their the same would be better than the till. Had a till on my 70xlch. Worst carburetor ever!!
Adam Stein, a proper tune up did wonders for this bike. I took it to Larry Suttle, TWICE, each time it came back running worse. he de tuned it and charged me money, TWICE
I also have a 1970 Flh. I bought from my Dad. We are currently in the process of restoring it to close to original. I was wondering if you had any information on how I can find the original paint color like the one that is in your video? We really want to make it look as close to original as possible. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I don't know how to reply directly to your comments. So it's probably hard to keep track of my replies.
You definitely know what your doing when it comes to these bikes. I want to be clear I was never disputing that. I've watched other videos of yours. Some great bikes.
I would give anything to own that 39 Indian hillclimber.
Beautiful bike! Didn’t this bike come with the bead on the top half of the windshield? Maybe it was replaced. My 74 had the bead on the original top half. I wish I still had it. Lol
I Love it, see my thumbnail of my 70...had for 33 years now.
I have fl. Model 85 fatboy looks great run 💯
thanks
Nice Classic Harley Bike. Congrats. P.S. I hope you kind folks fed that little stray black cat in the background. Spay and Nueter PLEASE.. Thanks for the ride !
+RalphJ. Cuevas we always feed the alley cats. when we can catch them, we spay and nueter also
All those designations include the aermacchi bikes also. So including the Italian bikes.
Thank you for responding. always heard how badly made the AMFs were. Do you think they were better, worse or about the same quality as pre-amfs? Easy Rider is a cool movie but Fondas bike in the movie Wild Angles was all that.
What I was asking before.
The turn signal switch on the 70 flh. Were the wires run inside the bars or down the outside of the bar?
Turn signal wires run through the handlebars as did the throttle cable. The front brake light switch showed up in 1970 although a few of the later productions ‘69’s did as well. I own both a ‘69 and ‘70 model FLH and have researched them both extensively. The ‘69 came with the front turn signal brake switch wire through the handlebar but my ‘70 did not ( like the one shown here). I went ahead and drilled the handlebar and ran it inside the bar like my ‘69, just a cleaner look.
That's the kind of bike I dream about finding in a barn. I live in ma. Those colors are instantly recognizable to me. Damn state police. Haha. Very cool bike.
the same for all of us
I have a question. The turn signal button.. The wires run externally?
I've seen both internal 3 position switches and external wiring. Factory is external?
that bike is gone. Many things, like spot lamps, turn signals, were added on after the bike was build at the factory. HD offered externally bolted on the handlebar switches for these add ons
15,000 to a 100,000 units "overnight boom". You need to read a book or two my friend. Harley didn't start making units well into the six figures till the end of the 1990's. I do like your videos though, keep up the good work.
Nice bike
AMF bought a company that was worn out, out of touch and ready to go out of business. At the time, the big three in Japan had a tremendous and successful marketing campaign and AMF was able to capitalize on this and the success of the movie Easy Rider and the magazine Easy Rider's. IF HD had just waited 2-3 years and let Willie G inherit the company instead of having to lead a group of investor's to buy the company back in late 82, history would of been different.
strange , mine sits all winter and I never had that happen.
So are you trying to sell this beast ?
long gone. Some hydraulics can sit all winter and be fine, other's have issues in a month or two. This bike sat repeatedly for years. This is 2014 and the bike is a 1970. 44 years... and low miles
I read about 7500 FL's and FLH's total for 70....It wsnt until 72 that they really started building bikes. And Im sure that can be made to run much better, lol!
Me and my buddies watch his vids and we wait until the bike starts and Todd explains why it only will start a certain way, usually after many attempts to start the bikes. I no some bikes have a trick start method but Jesus Christ,lol
absolutely all the hard starting bikes shown were either started up prior to a tune up after a long time of sitting, or improperly tuned by the mechanic, Larry Suttle, I had working on a lot of them.
I have exactly the same bike and same problems with it running right. Is there any chance of showing how to set up the tillitson carbie?
Unfortunately no. It would require my owning one and for now I don't even have a shop. This video around 9 , 10 years old
@@HuntingHarleys Thanks and good luck mate.
I believe now believe 1970 was a split year meaning harley was bought out by AMF in july 1970 also meanig that harley davidson did build some bikes the first part of the year I owned a new 1970 FLH electric glide in 1970 tilson carb put glass packs on it agreed it was a bitch to start but, after warm up it didn't spit and cut off like this bike ran great had it until 1979 maybe 40 something years has alot to do with the way it runs the gas we are getting these days sucks but, mine ran fine after start up and getting warmed up lots of great time I still own the 1979 low rider that I traded it in on and it was and still is a great bike I love shovels! Thanks very interesting harleyben
It was 1969 that was the "split" year. Late models made in 1969 were actually made under the AMF banner. However, not until late 1971 did AMF put a sticker on the tank above the tank badge announcing to the biker world in such a manner that they owned HD
Got it. That makes sense then.
a further "note of confusion" on Harley 1970's numbers... I am not at all sure when HD started this. BUT, by 1977, mid year, the FXS was introduced. At this time, and possibly as early as the 1st FX model in 1971, a new big twin model started with 10,001. IE< the 1st mid year 1977 FXS was 10,001. have not owned enough of the early FX's to figure out their number sequence. But I have owned enough of the 1977 and later FXS models and at least when they introduced the 1977 FXS, this is what they then did. Different models of big twins at least started their own number sequencing. I have no idea if that applies to Sportster's or not. I have personally owned 1977 FXS 10,057 and I know who ownes 10,001 1977 FXS.
One more note. Don't be upset with me and my curiosity. I am not questioning your knowledge on these bikes. It far exceeds my knowledge. I can't even begin to understand the scope of your knowledge and experience with these bikes.
Wow
In 1970 there were 5,909 flh models made. Serial # start at 1000
In 1969 they made 5,500 flh models
Danr, so how do you explain the serial number's of all the FLH's I have owned that dispute that? They did not skip number's.
Todd you seem to have had more hands on Harley experience than anyone. What are the differences between an FL and an FLH in 1970? I heard you say in one of your video's that most FL's were police bikes. Weren't FL's a lower comp ratio? Seems like police like high performance, usually. Do the 2 bikes look different? Thanks
The difference between the two depends on the year in question. In 1970. FLH meant full dresser with tons of options, think Electraglide. The FL, while still an Electraglide, was the stripped down version. The early FLHs in the 50s had different pistons, heads (they were factory flowed!) And a race cam. Finding a complete one today near impossible as the shops stole the FLH components off their customers machines
Thanks for the quick reply. I was hoping you would see it someday.
What did they strip down? I have a 1970 Fl. Mine is electric start only. Were there 1970 FL specific parts like the battery cover? Because what is on mine looks different than the 70 FLH's that you have shown in your video's. I'm looking to make mine a little more correct for the year where I can. Right now I need a set of heads for a 1970. Did FLH and FL use the same head? What I have is a bad spark plug hole and a later model rear cylinder head. Great videos! Those vintage original machines you find are truly beautifulI! I really appreciate the help.
Think tour pack, windshield, all the bagger stuff FLH. FL without, usually a solo seat. Same heads. Looks was simply adding bagger stuff, same base bike 1970
Thank you for that info. The prior owner must have added all the bagger stuff on this FL. It even has a fairing. I got it from his estate so no asking the actual owner. He had it since 1974. That was all I found out except that he loved his bike more than his family. They hated the bike. Kind of sad. Thanks again
@@doubledeuce5084 You could order anything you wanted.
I love that whining noise those engine make.
Victor Borg ,not me,that usually a bearing thats to tight
That's what Tilsons do, which is why we put a Bendix in ours! Never been sorry!
The fmf engine gremlins didn't really start till much later.
Right. That's what I said. 2a is flh.
3a xlh. 4a xlch. 5a ge-750. Etc.
I did not say you, or they, were incorrect to the designation number of the model, but on the production numbers of the bikes made.
So say 2a10001h0 is a flh. And 6a10002h0 is a sprint. And 2a10003h0 is a flh.
Just because the 3rd bike is a flh, it doesn't mean there were 2 flh models made before the bike numbered 2a10003h0.
You get what I mean? I'm not trying to argue. I love these old bikes. I want to understand what you know, and let people know what I know, or think I know until someone tells me otherwise.
all models of a given type, IE big twins are one model, Sportsters another, little Italian's another (possible more then one) model (those, I never paid attention to). Start at an initial production of 1001 1969 and earlier and 10,001 1970 and UP. IE< there is a Sportster AND a big twin with 10,001. BUT I cannot say if it is a 2A 1A or a 3A or a 4A. There are just two 10,001's. One for the big one and one for the small one. got it?
Tod, AMF days were the low times for Harley and its fans from what I remember,
yes and no. AMF dramatically increased production. Ever wonder why there are 100 shovel's for every Pan? This is why. AMF SAVED Harley. NO AMF NO HARLEY
Tod, wouldn't you agree they increased production at the expense of quality? If Willie and the workers didn't take back the company I feel Harley would have went the way of the Indian, just my opinion. Also, the advent of the Evo engine really was the saving grace of Harley. Even now the Evo is regarded as the best engine Harley ever produced, pretty much bullet proof, simple design, that is able to be modified for performance pretty cheaply with bolt on parts. Whats your opinion of the Evo?
midlantic1 I agree with those statements 100%. The EVO, in my personal opinion, was the best motor ever yet produced by the company. Feels like a real Harley, runs like a new 2014.
HuntingHarleys Well I agree that the evo was the best motor produced by harley but, not sound wise nothing to me sounds like a shovel with 40 inch drag pipes slash cut ends my 79 low rider which I hate myself for customing to harleyben way which I do everything that way, is 84 inch 40 inch pipes and even the evo riders in 98 at daytona bike week not one but, everyone I meet at less a 1000 stated it was indeed the best sounding harley they have ever heard 2 steps above a stock cam s&s carb never and being honest never left me even got me home on 1 cylinder once its in my will this bike goes to my son and he will never sale it great page thanks for posting it goodluck harleyben
Also going to so many bikes,meant a lot of trainees building bikes, Non quality control is inherent in a situation like that, And laying all that work on theyre parts companys too ,double shifts,tired people, Rejetting is essential though on most harley carbs after amf bought them because at the time the feds got in it on the emissions end too ,on and on .
Are you guys hiring by any chance?
I mistyped ax. I meant sx.
For American built Harley's in 1970. These are the numbers.
Model XLH: 3,033
Model XLCH: 5,527
Model FL: 1,706
Model FLH: 5,909
Model GE: 494
Whoever supplied you with those production numbers are incorrect. Here is another 1970 2A model www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/6732951251/in/set-72157628959380775 During the production period of 1970 - 1980, 2A is an FLH 1200 and 1A is an FL 1200. In 1970, most 1A's were Police bikes and most 2A's civilian bikes. Just these two FLH's from 1970 show that you were misinformed
HuntingHarleys here is another 2A 1970 with even higher numbers, another OP www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/5769650040/in/set-72157626828037290
HuntingHarleys here is a 1970 FL frame number www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/5385828608/in/set-72157625898946168
HuntingHarleys numbers off an OP 4A XLCH 1970 www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/4819976972/in/set-72157624562040100
HuntingHarleys numbers off an OP 3A XLH OP 1970 www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/4498473572/in/set-72157623806191258
Think that's a solenoid problem, my iron will do that clicking if my cable isn't zip tied right lol
A beautiful bike. Original or not that shitty carb would have to go. 😆
William Lipscomb s&s
I don't know. Those numbers are from Harleys records. I can't say for sure. I would bet the numbers were spread across every bike made that year. Since the first 2 vin #s designate the model. 2a for flh. Even sidecars had a designation.. The sprints. The ax models. Everything.
So you won't find a xlch and a flh with the same #.
Your forgetting, there are FL and FLH models (for sake of "ease" 'we' often call both big twin models FLH's, which is actually incorrect). These in 1970 are the two big twins made that year. Both XL and FL designations, regardless if they were XL, XLH, or XLCH, or FL or FLH, started with 10,001 starting in 1970. 1969 (and earlier) started with 1001. The 1st letter / number combination started with 1970, along with the ending H and number for the year, IE 1970 being H0 and 1979 being H9. 1980 was the only year of the J0 designation. 1981 started with 1HD1 as AMF knew "Harley" was being bought back. The number's do not lie on OP bikes. The very fact that this one is number 2A23020H0 www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/9140762362/in/set-72157634334643498 shows that whoever told you that in their historical department is incorrect. IF they had started with 1001 as you were told, then this would of been the 22020th one off the line in 1970 and 1970 production would have exceeded 60,000 units!! Their modern history is full of flaws an errors. Often, re written to make today's company look better. For example. the 50th anniversary models were 1954 AND 1955. That is because there were NO bikes made in 1903, and actual production of anything more then a prototype did not happen until 1905. But a 100th year anniversary edition for 2003 sure sounds good doesn't it? I can safely say I have owned more Shovel's then nearly anyone since production stopped and few of those other people ever bothered to understand the bikes they owned and re sold. I have had many higher numbered 1970 FL models over the years. The FLH was a more limited production then the FL, yes, but BOTH were made throughout the 1970's. One has to count total big twin and Sportster production for all models.
Los Angeles
the quality of the AMF era has to do with the people on the line building the bike. There was tremendous resentment inside HD by the employee's that AMF had bought Harley and a lot of internal sabotage. Assuming the bike was actually built right, an AMF Shovel was as good or better then any other HD in previous history. Unfortunately, the factory sabotage was quite prevalent to the point that AMF and Shovel's got a bad reputation.
what I learned in 91-92 at mmi Harley was that amf bought a company that was in the stone age. same tooling. same machinery for40 plus years. no innovation ect. the quality of the metal was sub par and porous. from what ive seen AMF saved em but at the price of being compared to bowling pins. BTW I have a 70 flh that runs better than my 96 dyna with 18k. thinking metal chip gold is original. bought from guy who got her in 1970. runs like a top at 7000 ft altitude with Bendix
TODD WHERE R U OUT OF !!!
Maybe I am wrong. If your serial is 23020 Then maybe they did make more. Since they start at 10001 being #1 off the line.
as I said, HD's own record's are not correct. THAT is why I don't ask them. I simply buy enough bikes to try and figure out what REALLY happened. Additionally, even the best books on the subject are far from complete, or accurate. and... unfortunately, since they try and depict themselves as being accurate, often they end up destroying the real history by idealizing what they think happened instead of what actually happened. Thus, people constantly correct their OP bikes to be the standard for the judges "of the day".
PS !!! ALSO FIX N REPAIR THEM !!!!!!! WHAT IS YOUR COMPANY OR EMAIL WHERE U CAN BE CONTACTED AT !!!!
i know Todd, but that speedo that is on that bike is a stewart warner
+Sean o got it, so that is why it says smith's at the top and has the bar and shield
+HuntingHarleys i have one in my hand as i am writing this and where does it say Smith? i am looking all over and all that is see is stewart warner 9999999 made in use
+Sean o then you have the late 1971 or possibly a 1972 Speedo. Does the speedo your holding have just the bar and shield, or does it say Harley Davidson?
+Sean o it appears we are both correct. I chased down the pictures I took of this machine (I sold it a long time ago) and it does have the later version which is Stewart Warner on this machine (so evidently the speedo was replaced) www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/9140791310/in/album-72157634334643498/ The vast majority of the bar and shield speedo's were Smiths. Smiths also made them for HD for the Sportster and as an accessory Tachometer.
+Sean o I just took these pictures of some of the Smiths products made for HD. One set are for an era Sprint, two other are the Tach's I mentioned www.flickr.com/photos/34150794@N04/albums
let me know if you find any original paint Knucklehead's or Panhead's, e-mail huntingharleys@gmail.com
you can see some of my bikes on flickr by looking up thefamousjames. I don't have a website
it has a stewart warner speedo, not a smith
+Sean o you are both correct and incorrect. The ones that just have a bar and shield on them, used 1965ish through 1971ish were made by Smiths. Prior to that and after that they were Stewart Warner
oh dear me yes. i ain't a harley guy but
Not at this moment
So I did more research. as far as I know. They didn't number each model type seperately. Total in 1970 including Italian is 28,850
For shovelheads the #s go
1A 10001 H0 to 1A 26609 H0
2A 10003 H0 to 2A 26625 H0
FL: 1,706 *(shovel)
FLH: 5,909 *(shovel)
XLH: 3,033 (sportster)
XLCH: 5,527 (sportster)
GE: 494
M-65 Sport: 2.080
SS-350: 4,513
MLS: 4,059
ERS: 102
MSR-100: 1,427
grand TOTAL: 28,850
Show me a sportster and big twin with the same #. I will bow down to you. Or show me any 1970 Harley with #s exceeding the ones stated.
Why don't you call me? 661-904-8512. We "know" 1969 big twin production was around 15,000 units. We "know" AMF doubled production, immediately. Your figures show the same number's made in the 1950's and prior to WW11. Even if HD "said" this is what they made, I do not
'buy it". HD has been known to not tell the truth about their own history, FACT.
Ya. I'll give you a call. I tried to email you but I don't think it went through. I didn't mean to muck up your RUclips channel comments.
e mail is huntingharleys@gmail.com
Love the bike haters go away
Be even better without the top box
Just replace the carburetor or completely rebuild it ...
Rough.
That's a bunch of bs. Nice flh. But they went from 15k bikes (both xl and big twin) in 69 to 16k in1970.
There are just as few 69 shovelheads as 70.
while HD did not restart numbering sequences between Big twin models. IE< FL, FLH, FLE. They did always start at 1001 prior to 1970 and 1970 - 1980 started the number sequences at 10,001. The higher numbering sequences was because of the higher production anticipated by the company. XL (Sportster) models also started with 1001. The did not include big twin and small twin numbering together. IE, a 1001 Big Twin and a 1001 Sportster were both made. I have owned many 1969 big twins with 15,000 and higher number's. Not just one or two. Thus, you are incorrect in stating that only 15,000 units of small and big twin's were made in 1969. This 1970 has a production number of 23020, thus the 13020th one off the line. I have owned many OP 1970's over the years, many with much higher production number's. Production of 1970 big twin's, based upon bikes I have personally owned, and this is MY best guesstimate, is roughly 30,000 units. That then would be a rough double in production from 1969.
THANKS !!!! DO YOU HAVE WEB SITE !!!! I BUY N SELL OLD SCOOTERS FROM 1980 BACK N HAVE LITTLE BUSINESS CALL " OLD IRON " !!! I CHANGED MY CARB OVER A S&S !!!!! I HAVE A GREAT OLD SCHOOL CHOPPER U WOULD LIKE !!!
It don't sound real healthy perhaps the lifters are shot
when these bikes sit around for a long time, the lifter's can take a bit to bleed back up. If they were high mileage, generally they are no longer original paint
No matter how original it is,or how nice it looks ,it's still a piece of shit shovelhead..absolute junk.put a S&S carb on it and its still junk.they are not meant to be ridden far distances.just around town.top ends last maybe 60 thousand miles or so then they smoke.valve guides,rings etc..buy a evo..i put 360,000 miles on mine with one top end.i got T boned going 60 is the only reason it didnt have 500,000 miles..at 360,000 miles i still had original starter.clutch lasted 270,000 miles..
everything doesn't work on this bike, you keep making excuses for it, the bike, it's not the bike!