this debate is almost 2 years old now so don't really take it too seriously when it comes to our current stances, but people kept asking what happened in our debate and I finally found it also, the debate kinda ends at like 20 minutes then goes on a tangent, you were warned!
@@soyaazashiro7184 you don't debate seth, you just offer your rectum and if seth deems it's tight enough, he rods you in front of a few thousand people
Smack him on his God Awful Goku wank for 4D movie God Goku cuz JAR called him out on it yet he just doubled down from saying Goku is Outerversal to now saying he’s beyond fiction and Omnipotence cuz he fuses with the audience
Why are they even bothering debating fodder characters like these? Frieza already said he's the strongest in the Universe and that's clearly the writers talking through the character, smh.
Fodder. Burter is the fastest in the universe and dyspo is the fastest in the multiverse. Frieza is like stick level since he got sliced by a sword and swords cut sticks
My god Shane's logic is ludicrous. He made even less sense when he started debating about Zamasu and lost the argument even more. BTW Cumber didn't go SSJ, but SSJ3 since his eyebrows were gone, meaning your argument is backed up even more Seth. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Heroes portrayed Jiren as superior. I can claim to be able to destroy the universe and then get beat up by an UFC fighter. How the hell can narrative take precedence over feats?!
Exactly. If we're referring to the DBS version of Jiren, then base Cumber absolutely stomps, but the Heroes version of Jiren is no joke. He's a monster, by scaling.
@Ryan Nowatski Because base Cumber was above a Post-T.O.P Vegito Blue Kaioken, who logically scales above DBS T.O.P MUI Goku, who DBS T.O.P Jiren was losing to.
Jiren LITERALLY bodied base Cumber and kicked back SS3 roid Cumber in the anime alone. Let alone in the manga where that form was equal to GoD Toppo who Kamioren one shot and then Jiren one shot in turn. Let alone the game where Cumber, Hearts, AND Zamasu got beat up by Jiren.
Fun fact: Cumber was actually in SSJ3 due to the fact that he lost his eyebrows when he transformed and he has eyebrows in base so even when he was 400x stronger Jiren still was able to damage him. Heroes is dumb and the scaling is even dumber.
yeah like in the anime how the hell is cumber able to take on ssj4 vegito, ssj blue kaioken vegito, final form golden cooler, future trunks but lose to a weakened mastered ultra instinct goku, I'm pretty sure blue vegito and ssj4 vegito their power comined is stronger than a weakened mastered ultra instinct goku(not full power mastered ui)
I just watched the fight and I can see why he say they’re equal because they were in an arm struggle of sorts but yes cumber did get washed until heart used the gravity move on him and sicked the tuffle twins on him and even then he was beating them arguably and when zamasu came in they were equal in fighting skill based on what was shown since neither of them landed a hit on each other or powered up
another fun fact, he was in super saiyan 3 FULL POWER. not just ssj3, if you go to heroes wiki cumbers ssj3 form isnt just ssj3, but ssj3 full power (no ki drain/stamina drain and boost in power if I remember right)
@@cristhelivingradio1400 also jiren landed a gut shot on zamasu next episode. all without powering up btw. EDIT: (and he destroyed zamasu's entire body, by which he regened cus of being immortal)
By his logic, Super Vegeta should be stronger than Perfect Cell because of the fact that he said he’s stronger even though he couldn’t damage Cell unless Cell intentionally let himself get hit by the Final Flash
No what Shane was trying to say was that Base Cumber (who beat up Blue Kaioken Vegito) was equal to Jiren but when they fought he didn't use the Dark Aura he used then so he was weaker
Yes. Although fun fact, cell dodged at the last second, which is why only his arm was blown off. But yeah obviously perfect cell is way stronger than super vegeta
Majin ss2 vegeta landed hits on ss2 goku first. Yet goku say's they're equal. Is he wrong? With a 30min fight it was give and go. Jiren and cumber were written to be equal. It's inconclusive battle based on 30secs. When jiren fought oren-vegeta they also stalemated. Doubt oren-vegeta is stronger than either jiren or cumber. He's just fast enough to warrant a stalemate with suppressed jiren. Cumber despite being visibly slower. Still stalemated jiren. Which is why he said what he said.
@@Jiron127 but...he didn’t stalemate Jiren, at all. Jiren utterly clapped Cumber. And Cumber was SSJ3. Besides, the point was base Cumber vs Jiren, and Jiren demolished him fully suppressed
Seth: Cumber legit got slapped in half in his fight against him and Jiren tanked his shit Shane: Nah narrative over feats Seth: not sure if you know, but feats matter more than narrative Shane: No Seth: Saying no is not an argument
That wasn't exactly the argument. If a feat contradicts the overall narrative in some way we do still have to take the narrative in some cases. However, it's rare that actually happens. What Seth was arguing was that if a character just says they're stronger and then gets dicked on, the narrative implication was obviously that he was incorrect
What if I give the next DBS movie to republic records? What if I be the one to animate it. THE MORO ARC WILL BE FOR REPUBLIC TO PROMOTE! I pay a billion for the promotion. All the credits will be given to Akira Toryiama, Toyotaro (best staff member), and all the characters.
And this is the same Cumber that absolutely shitted on SSB Goku, Vegeta, Golden Cooler, and Trunks combined. Whilst in Base Form. Cumber then goes SSJ3 against SSJ4 Xeno Vegito and Vegito stops him, but momentarily. It's only when MUI Goku came in, Cumber gets shitted on.
@@ljekanimation286 shane is dumb for that, if the narrative was pushing that kid naruto would win against composite goku and composite goku wins he’s going to choose the narrative over the feats
Just because Cumber calls Jiren prey doesn’t make him equal or stronger, that lady in the tournament of power called android 17 prey and then got Bukkaked
Crazy thing is Seth, is that Cumber didn’t go super saiyan he went super saiyan 3 lmaoo his eyebrows were gone so that’s a 400x amp & Jiren still wasn’t fazed 😂😳
Relovushane has the worst logic ever lol. He thinks statement>feat😂😂. I could say I could beat an MMA fighter but then I get beat and he would still say I’m stronger because I said so🤦♂️😂. And it’s not even like the statement was from a character that is known to be knowledgeable like whis for example, just some artificial arrogant saiyan😂.
Literally the only time that Jiren showed any emotion was when he was caught off guard. I mean to be honest what the hell is a narrative argument here? If it was to be "Narrative," that means that there is a story being told to tell us they're equal like Goku v Frieza SSJ v 100% MAYBE GFrieza v Goku SSJB (Ressurection F) you can argue a narrative argument. As Frieza couldn't outright kill Goku, but he was likely just as strong. The funniest thing is, AS PROVEN, Cumber doesn't use SSJ the same way Vegeta does, and uses it against those who deserve it. But why within the first few seconds Jiren tossed SSJ? I'm going to just stop because of the pinned comment. LoL
Bruh Shane lost in the first 20 mins. How is this an hour long??? I'm wondering should i even watch the whole thing LoL Nvrmnd just read the pinned comment time to dip LoL.
Seth is a good boy who gives people more time than they probly should need, probly over a benefit of a doubt since he clearly actually tries to convince people and not just prove them wrong. Honestly it's the one quality that probly makes him very approachable in a debating setting.
Shane doesn’t considers it a debate but agrees to do a conclusion so it can be judged? That’s fishy. DAWG SHANE EVEN USED FALLACYS. 56:04 And Seth tell him it’s a debate at 56:31 ok Shane “I didn’t realize it’s a debate”
As someone close to Shane, he thought it would be a civil discussion and Seth thought Shane understood how things went down in his server. But this shouldn’t be allowed to be on RUclips for the simple reason that Shane never gave permission for Seth to use his voice, let alone monetize the video.
You missed out, this shit is GOLD I forgot how hilarious this one was 😂 If you haven’t already next time you can sit down for a whirl turn on broly wars.
Bruh, is this guy for real? So a 50x stronger Cumber gets out wrestled and kicked away by Jiren and he's still saying Jiren is not stronger than base Cumber? Guess he doesn't know how math works 🤦🏾♂️
I actually went and watched Jiren vs Cumber mid-way through the actual debate and there is no way Base Cumber = Jiren from visuals alone you can clearly see Jiren is not really serious and he's clapping Base Cumber,the way i understood it was that Cumber was referring to their full power when he said Seems we're evenly matched and then im pretty sure he goes SSJ3,not Super Saiyan,as the eyebrows disappear and Jiren still can hang with him and push him back,and while i do believe SSJ3 Cumber or Golden Oozaru Cumber(whichever is his stronger state cause its really hard to tell with heroes scaling) is stronger than Jiren at their full power,there is no way in hell Base Cumber = Jiren.
But jiren can increase on command w/o powering up based on his fight with ui omen first fight. Only power up if he needs to later. So we may can assume base jiren ~ ui omen goku (1st time). Base cumber is clearly on that level based on feats alone. The difference is speed.
@@Jiron127 Don't try to equate DBS Logic to SDBH Logic,since besides characters they are two completely different shows that follow different logic and scaling,and as for Base Cumber being on the level of Jiren thats just a no,Seriously all u guys need to confirm that is watch the damn episode where they fight,there is a clear Power & Speed Difference between them,Hell Jiren even shows signs that he can match and overpower SSJ3 Cumber let alone Base Cumber.
For me broly is stronger only for me! I got my proof 1st of all in the tournament of power Goku achieve a lot lot lot lot lot lot of zenkai especially in jirien cuz you can get zenkai if you train super hard or near death and Goku and Vegeta achieve all of does zenkai that means there base form is crazy crazy stronger than the base Goku from the tournament of power and broly slapping Goku and Vegeta in SSJB and they even need to fuse just to match broly remember that that Goku is the one who achieve the MUI that jerien fought that means base Goku is a literal monstrosity and being fuse with Vegeta for like 400 x and stack super Saiyan blue Wich is for me has a multyplier of 10,000 cuz super Saiyan God is atleast 2000 multyplier and blue is 5 time stronger than that 🙃
@@z3n023 Just because Goku got a lot stronger in the Tournament of Power doesn't mean his base form is equal to Complete Ultra Instinct during the Broly Movie. One thing that people fail to realize is that Broly was trying to kill Goku and Vegeta the entire movie, while in the Tournament Jiren was constantly holding back against them. If killing was allowed in the Tournament of Power then Jiren could've easily killed both Goku and Vegeta multiple times.
@@prometheusmodelow8322 And the boost from Complete Ultra instinct is said to be on the level of the fusion multiplier as well, and plus we saw the longer Goku used Complete Ultra Instinct the stronger he became in it.
@@Sword_Man_YT Yeah, it is definetly a similar boost, but i think the fusion multiplier is bigger, just look at the insane boost Kefla got when the two of them couldn't even touch SS2 Goku, while he needed UI to beat Kefla. Also, its' very clear that Goku is way stronger than he was in the ToP when you take into account the zenkais he gained in the torunament itself and after it, and he got training with Vegeta for some time before the Broly fight, i think that's enough evidence to prove that Gogeta is superior.
Funny thing is in the manga Toppo goes into his god of destruction form and is evenly matched with Cumber. It's until kamioren joins in where Toppo needs Jiren's help. Jiren oneshots kamioren and Cumber is transported away because they tell him he's not powerful enough to beat Jiren. Golden Metal Cooler then proceeds to fuck up ssj3 Cumber. Revolushane loved to bring up narrative, I wonder what he'd think about the heroes manga verbatim saying Jiren was stronger than Cumber?
Pretty sure the Debate was SDBH Anime Jiren vs Cumber,which is a whole different debate as there is nothing in the anime to suggest that Jiren or Toppo are that strong against Cumber especially Toppo who clearly got shitstomped by supressed Base Cumber in the Anime,so your argument is redundant to this video.
@@mvp746 Of course they're referring to the anime. I brought up the manga as a supporting argument not to use it as my main take. You saying Cumber was suppressed is headcanon as we don't know what happened, all we see is an unconscious Toppo lying on the ground. It's almost as if you didn't even watch the episode where Ssj3 cumber couldn't even land a hit whereas Jiren was clearly handling Cumber who was a ssj3. Manga or anime it's clear that Cumber would have lost to Jiren. Jiren never brought out his aura once while Cumber has and still failed to land a single hit. You must be smooth brained if you think Cumber stood a chance.
@@kaystruenoo You cant bring up the manga as a supporting argument for the Anime,that is again redundant as they are mostly separate continuities almost always things happen differently in the manga and the scaling is way different,and tf u mean by "all we see is Toppo lying in the ground" what more do you need bro? he is barely breathing and visibly heavily damaged on the ground the guy cant even get up on his feet while Cumber doesnt even have a scratch on him if thats not enough evidence for you that Manga follows a completely different scaling and Anime Cumber >>> Manga Cumber then you my friend are Braindead and in denial and the Aura argument from Seth and you is just outright wrong in this scenario,since you guys seem to be implying SBDH Anime follows the complete same logic as Super Does, Also Jiren got his ass handed to him by Golden Hearts and he never powered up there either,which just shows how seth was dead wrong on this point of the debate,In fact Jiren even when he seemingly went up to help Gogeta and yelled his lungs out which implied he was using near full power or actually full power he didnt show his Aura,which is just undeniable proof that the Aura argument is just wrong.
@@kaystruenoo Also just so you know im not saying that SSJ3 Cumber > Jiren that is debatable,while on a previous comment i said that i believe full power SSJ3 Cumber would win as he could potentially adapt and overcome Jiren if we imply he was weaker to begin with and Cumber seemingly has a really big Stamina Reserve that is probably bigger than even Goku's since he can just shit out forms and maintain them with no strain like SSJ3,which is shown when Golden metal cooler shits on him and he's almost unconcious on the ground and he still doesnt drop out from SSJ3 whereas Goku always struggles with SSJ3 especially if he's fatigued, and there could still be a chance Golden Oozaru Cumber > SSJ3 Cumber and if thats the case because u know inconsistent scaling and all that,then i do believe Golden Oozaru > Jiren aswell,seeing how in their oozaru forms saiyans have almost 0 stamina drain and a weaker Golden oozaru cumber was already beating a SSBKKx20 Vegito who is at least comparable to Blue Gogeta who is faaaaar stronger than Jiren.
@@mvp746 That depends if you believe Ssj3 cumber is stronger than his Golden Oozaru. Ssj4 Xeno Vegito was handling Cumber while Blue Vegito with kaioken was stuggling, scaling was highly inconsistent in that show as we see Blue Vegito getting overwhelmed and ssg Goku was keeping up with Oozaru Cumber. The wonky scaling makes this a lot more difficult than it should be. Ssbkk Vegito fights base Cumber and isn't able to beat him, Ultra instinct Goku completely god stomps base Cumber and we know Jiren (limits broken) is comparable to complete UI Goku, but Gogeta was able to defeat a stronger Hearts who's above Cumber. I still don't get how Ssbkk Vegito couldn't beat Cumber but Blue Gogeta was able to beat Godslayer Hearts who is far stronger than Cumber.
this guys hilarious, its amazing that people can watch one person clearly start losing the fight, and still they think because BIG MACHO MAN SAYS OOOH IM STRONGER THEN YOULL EVER BE YOU WEAKLING- which is a thing people in dragon ball say all the time right before their deaths, that what cumber says literally matters at all- he litally almost stood up inside of hearts's gravity attack WITHOUT POWERING UP and you think hes going to lose to BASE CUMBER?!?
@DannyDaDuffyDucking Daffer that and it’s a bunch of poorly done fanservice. The moment I heard about time patrol ssj4 goku fighting blue goku I instantly knew it was trash
Heroes is just aids like literally everyone is just low complex multiversal and they keep bringing back movie villains and giving them somehow even more amps lol.
@@jonshukulli6944 yeah, honestly. Don’t know if this is a popular opinion, but most dragonball non-canon shit is kinda cringy, so this almost gave me an aneurysm
@@chrisburns9898 I only like it when it comes to like a game like dokkan battle for example. We could use characters like limit breaker ssj4 xeno goku for example to help team building and improving rosters and shit like that. But as an actual medium it’s pretty retarded
How often does a anime villain say "im stronger than you and will destroy you" or something like that and in the next moment he gets obliberated? Why does Shane think, that when cumber says that they are "equal", it's an actual fact??
I’m just going to boil this down to RevoluShane not being as knowledgeable 2 years ago as he is now. Because honestly the notion that Base Cumber and Jiren are equal because of 1 statement is nonsense. But recent RevoluShane is a lot smarter and honestly I can say his points do make sense more times than not
Seth is wrong though. Post fusion: Base Goku = Blue Vegito you can say that, but you would also have to admit that Base Caulifla post fusion is stronger than Ultra instinct Omen Goku.
@@jakobemoore4625 right I know that just saying Base form Caulifla is Omen 2nd awakening level is crazy. SSJ2 Caulifla would be stronger than mastered ultra instinct. Because Omen 2 to MUI is definitely not a 100x difference. But SSJ2 is 100x base.
It's always hilarious when Seth makes someone realize the faults in their own logic, and suddenly they turn to crying and complaining.... like, 10 minutes in and Seth destroyed him!
The "passion"/aura theory can be applied to almost all dragon ball characters. It's a very simple concept in dragon ball that if a character doesn't power up or has not shown show their aura, they are not going full power or not trying very hard. However, they could power up and then turn off their aura. None of this happens with jiren during the cumber fight, whilst cumber powers up with an aura against jiren and uses super saiyan
Im 90% sure Seth was making the argument that the aura Jiren uses against MUI Goku in the TOP is different from the aura that the average fighter like Frieza or Cell. Jiren/UI Goku are the only ones given this very specific aura treatment centered around passion, instinct, and heat/flames, none of which are components of the aura we see normal Z Fighters use.
In my personal opinion I think that Pinpin should’ve went over how both Super Buu and king piccolo from original Dragon Ball said they were omniscient in the manga when they clearly weren’t.😂
Problem is with Heroes you can't really debate their OC characters given how inconsistent the scaling is even by the standards of Dragon Ball. In one episode Cumber can rock Vegito Blue in Kaioken while he is in base form, but the next he is getting ragdolled by Metal Cooler in SSJ3. Like what the hell are you supposed to do?
Lmao, I knew it, the revolushane guy is just a Jiren hater, no proofs nothing, he matches up Jiren against other people and say Jiren loses lol. Fool got owned by seth! He a Broly cukboy😂
Damn bro Shane is letting his emotions get the best of him. I thought so highly of him. I didn't think him capable of trying to turn it into a shouting match. Jesus man. If he's kept a cooler head THIS would of been one hell of a chill awesome debat. Fuck me dood.
![Summer Walker - Heart Of A Woman [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SFddctbZzw8/mqdefault.jpg)
this debate is almost 2 years old now so don't really take it too seriously when it comes to our current stances, but people kept asking what happened in our debate and I finally found it
also, the debate kinda ends at like 20 minutes then goes on a tangent, you were warned!
How do I debate you ? Cause I got Ichigo >goku ?
Hey, seth, my man. Once again you're great, and I love ya, but damn daddy seth it's 2am. I need sleep.
(Proceeds to watch it all)
@@soyaazashiro7184 you don't debate seth, you just offer your rectum and if seth deems it's tight enough, he rods you in front of a few thousand people
Smack him on his God Awful Goku wank for 4D movie God Goku cuz JAR called him out on it yet he just doubled down from saying Goku is Outerversal to now saying he’s beyond fiction and Omnipotence cuz he fuses with the audience
How do people get the chance to debate you
Why are they even bothering debating fodder characters like these? Frieza already said he's the strongest in the Universe and that's clearly the writers talking through the character, smh.
Theres our winner
Fodder. Burter is the fastest in the universe and dyspo is the fastest in the multiverse. Frieza is like stick level since he got sliced by a sword and swords cut sticks
@@Lackifall you serious
@@Lackifall lmaooooo good point I’ve got no rebuttal
@@lasandracobb2376 he’s not
Cumber: "It seems we are evenly matched"
Jiren: Aight time to use 2% of my power lol
I can only imagine jiren saying "lol"
@@lainlost5578 I know right 🤣
Jiren would just said lol if cumber said they are equal
Shane: It seems we are evenly matched
Seth: No
Seth made Shane look delusional holy shit
With minimum effort. Shane needs to go back to Dragon ball and be re-educated
Most Dragonball fans are tbh like for example a lot people think kid buu is stronger than Buuhan that’s just the surface
@@deejay-1486 because there are statements to back up him being stronger than buuhan.
@Dodge Cummins 2500 you do know what powerscaling is right?
@Dodge Cummins 2500 bro this is hilarious. “Go back to streaming fortnite” the stream: 2 years ago
Pinpin: a=b
Revo: yea
Pinpin: so that means b=a
Revo: YEA
Pinpin: so that must mean the a+a=2b
Revo:Noooooo
2b*
@@thetf8142 lol
@@thetf8142 2xb is the same as 2b or b2 (=/= b^2) . 2b is just favoured cause you want the number before the letter
@@RP-zl5ix you want the number before because b2 implies it's b^2
this math is grade 7 level and I can't even understand it
My god Shane's logic is ludicrous. He made even less sense when he started debating about Zamasu and lost the argument even more. BTW Cumber didn't go SSJ, but SSJ3 since his eyebrows were gone, meaning your argument is backed up even more Seth. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Heroes portrayed Jiren as superior. I can claim to be able to destroy the universe and then get beat up by an UFC fighter. How the hell can narrative take precedence over feats?!
Exactly. If we're referring to the DBS version of Jiren, then base Cumber absolutely stomps, but the Heroes version of Jiren is no joke. He's a monster, by scaling.
The DBZ fan base are full of fans who clearly do not understand Power Scaling. They go only off of statements not backed by feats. Smh.
@Ryan Nowatski Easy. Cumber(base) >> CC Blue Kaioken Vegito >>>>>>> Xeno Goku(base) >>>>> Complete ultra instinct Goku from ToP.
@Ryan Nowatski Because base Cumber was above a Post-T.O.P Vegito Blue Kaioken, who logically scales above DBS T.O.P MUI Goku, who DBS T.O.P Jiren was losing to.
@Ryan Nowatski because he scales to xeno goku
Jiren LITERALLY bodied base Cumber and kicked back SS3 roid Cumber in the anime alone.
Let alone in the manga where that form was equal to GoD Toppo who Kamioren one shot and then Jiren one shot in turn.
Let alone the game where Cumber, Hearts, AND Zamasu got beat up by Jiren.
Lmao. It really is that bad.
I know right lol
Where do you read the manga
Where can i read it
Zamasu didn’t fight jiren in the manga
PINPIN FANS EATING BOIS
Quality Sesu meme.
Seth seththeprogramer and pinpin fans be big eating together
@@ANDROIDAPEX I try bro
@@ras445 BIG EATING
@@raymay8476 BIGGGGGGGGGG
This dude constantly keeps saying “cumber says” rather than showing feats
Fun fact: Cumber was actually in SSJ3 due to the fact that he lost his eyebrows when he transformed and he has eyebrows in base so even when he was 400x stronger Jiren still was able to damage him. Heroes is dumb and the scaling is even dumber.
yeah like in the anime how the hell is cumber able to take on ssj4 vegito, ssj blue kaioken vegito, final form golden cooler, future trunks but lose to a weakened mastered ultra instinct goku, I'm pretty sure blue vegito and ssj4 vegito their power comined is stronger than a weakened mastered ultra instinct goku(not full power mastered ui)
and i think it was an amp ssj3 because he lost his pupil
I just watched the fight and I can see why he say they’re equal because they were in an arm struggle of sorts but yes cumber did get washed until heart used the gravity move on him and sicked the tuffle twins on him and even then he was beating them arguably and when zamasu came in they were equal in fighting skill based on what was shown since neither of them landed a hit on each other or powered up
another fun fact, he was in super saiyan 3 FULL POWER. not just ssj3, if you go to heroes wiki cumbers ssj3 form isnt just ssj3, but ssj3 full power (no ki drain/stamina drain and boost in power if I remember right)
@@cristhelivingradio1400 also jiren landed a gut shot on zamasu next episode. all without powering up btw. EDIT: (and he destroyed zamasu's entire body, by which he regened cus of being immortal)
By his logic, Super Vegeta should be stronger than Perfect Cell because of the fact that he said he’s stronger even though he couldn’t damage Cell unless Cell intentionally let himself get hit by the Final Flash
Best example is Aizen vs Ichigo 😂
No what Shane was trying to say was that Base Cumber (who beat up Blue Kaioken Vegito) was equal to Jiren but when they fought he didn't use the Dark Aura he used then so he was weaker
Yes. Although fun fact, cell dodged at the last second, which is why only his arm was blown off. But yeah obviously perfect cell is way stronger than super vegeta
Majin ss2 vegeta landed hits on ss2 goku first. Yet goku say's they're equal. Is he wrong? With a 30min fight it was give and go.
Jiren and cumber were written to be equal. It's inconclusive battle based on 30secs. When jiren fought oren-vegeta they also stalemated. Doubt oren-vegeta is stronger than either jiren or cumber. He's just fast enough to warrant a stalemate with suppressed jiren. Cumber despite being visibly slower. Still stalemated jiren. Which is why he said what he said.
@@Jiron127 but...he didn’t stalemate Jiren, at all. Jiren utterly clapped Cumber. And Cumber was SSJ3. Besides, the point was base Cumber vs Jiren, and Jiren demolished him fully suppressed
Shane: "Can I add something?"
Seth: "No, that's what a conclusion is"
That had me dying of laughter omg haha 😂
When revolushane was screaming I thought he was gonna cry 😂
Timestamp?
@@scaly7861 dont have it but it was around the time they were arguing about premise
@@scaly7861 around 15:18
@@tackytb9288 Thanks
I would've cried too if I had Seth ripping out my entrails like this dude did
Seth: Cumber legit got slapped in half in his fight against him and Jiren tanked his shit
Shane: Nah narrative over feats
Seth: not sure if you know, but feats matter more than narrative
Shane: No
Seth: Saying no is not an argument
That wasn't exactly the argument. If a feat contradicts the overall narrative in some way we do still have to take the narrative in some cases. However, it's rare that actually happens. What Seth was arguing was that if a character just says they're stronger and then gets dicked on, the narrative implication was obviously that he was incorrect
@@noahlillis6602 lmao
About sums up the debate
This was such a one sided debate lmao seth literally SLAPPED this young man and proved him wrong at every turn
My man didn’t even make sense
Seth-sama is buying us a buffet this weekend
Rose kai bullied seth
What if I give the next DBS movie to republic records? What if I be the one to animate it. THE MORO ARC WILL BE FOR REPUBLIC TO PROMOTE! I pay a billion for the promotion. All the credits will be given to Akira Toryiama, Toyotaro (best staff member), and all the characters.
@@rememberme3762 wtf when rose Kai even said he would lose
@@shamardag ruclips.net/video/1LiYbYmyKWs/видео.html
@@rememberme3762 he said it was a joke
Revolushane thinks Cumber is stronger than Jiren? Seth won this the moment when he thought this.
he thinks base cumber is equal to jiren
@@wesley5729 i dont get how this "debate" went on for a whole hour damn
@@arielbrant I never saw heroes so I can't speak to either side of the debate
@@wesley5729 basically suppressed jiren was going blow for blow with ssj3 full power cumber
And this is the same Cumber that absolutely shitted on SSB Goku, Vegeta, Golden Cooler, and Trunks combined. Whilst in Base Form. Cumber then goes SSJ3 against SSJ4 Xeno Vegito and Vegito stops him, but momentarily.
It's only when MUI Goku came in, Cumber gets shitted on.
Wasn't Jiren just flat-out beating Base Cumber?
its shane bro
nah bro it was a hologram B)
@@Pinpins how do you debate something that we've seen already
But the "narrative" doesn't imply that 🎩
he hates jiren btw
“BUT THE NARRATIVE!!”
narrative is more reliable than feat by his logic lol
@@ljekanimation286 shane is dumb for that, if the narrative was pushing that kid naruto would win against composite goku and composite goku wins he’s going to choose the narrative over the feats
@@tackytb9288 by his logic super buu is omnipotent because the narrative said so lol
@@ljekanimation286
I suppose he takes even Black Zetsu from it's face value and thinks that Itachi is invincible, lel.
@@mabussubam512 “Only those with a Mangekyou Sharingan can beat me.” Damn, I guess Itachi creampies Kaguya then.
Bruh he does the Sargon laugh when he loses points to try and look smug and like he’s winning
Most obnoxious optics strategy imaginable
Hate when people do that.
he's trying to boost his broken ego lol
@@lancetheking7524 his ego is broken, Seth destroying him is more popular than his channel
@@disgruntledmanlet fair enough lol
"You can't bully me"
*gets bullied*
My IQ went down hearing this debate. The man did not want to take that L but keeps digging himself into this hole faster than Cumber's beat down.
Yo fax
@@joeker5208 facts to you as well
Glad to see this uploaded since I’ve heard so much about it.
Lmao so for him a villain or protagonist saying "i'll never loose" means he can solo his entire verse?
Revolushane was definitely remembering TFS' version of the Cell vs Perfect Cell fight.
Just because Cumber calls Jiren prey doesn’t make him equal or stronger, that lady in the tournament of power called android 17 prey and then got Bukkaked
Good fucking point
Exactly
Exactly u can call someone your prey and end up contradicting yourself for underestimating them by calling them that😂
Crazy thing is Seth, is that Cumber didn’t go super saiyan he went super saiyan 3 lmaoo his eyebrows were gone so that’s a 400x amp & Jiren still wasn’t fazed 😂😳
Jiren was at 10% of his full power.
Yeah but here is the thing the anime nerfed the fuck out of him
@@juggalox1000 He never even went super full power in the anime
Facts😂😂
Actually it’s much higher than that. More like 8000x
Cumber: "It seems we are evenly matched"
Jiren: "Lmao"
Why does revolushane laughs like he had a death note and killed L?
defense mechanism for getting bodied
Lmao
He crying because he can’t prove anything 😂
@Black Tiger revolushet, revolutard.
@Black Tiger don’t have one 😂
I actually feel bad for Revolushane. Mans was actually close to crying..
Yeah I feel bad for him a bit too.
i dont feel bad for him. hes dense asf😭
If he’s honing to debate like a little sh** then he better
Seth already won this debate in the first five minutes
Took him twenty minutes to break Shane’s mind
15:18 is when I started crying 😂
Me too 😂
We all did
Revolushane really tried to debate something we have literally seen, that must be the dumbest thing ever 😂😂
I’m betting he would argue Super Saiyan God Goku is stronger than Beerus in their fight
Relovushane has the worst logic ever lol. He thinks statement>feat😂😂. I could say I could beat an MMA fighter but then I get beat and he would still say I’m stronger because I said so🤦♂️😂. And it’s not even like the statement was from a character that is known to be knowledgeable like whis for example, just some artificial arrogant saiyan😂.
Well Revolushane also believed movie 4D fuse Goku could beat Cosmic armor Superman.
@@gabrielhughes8221 well in a non neutral verse 4d Fuse Goku would beat CAS superman.
@@oxiclean8536 Maybe but it's just a theory.
@Ryan Nowatski So what is your opinion?
@Ryan Nowatski Oh I'm just saying because people got many opinions to say about this 😀
Seth been uploading like a madman
is this seths channel or does he have a different one besides programmer?
This is his 2nd channel but he has one more just called Seth
He uploaded in a month
Pin pin is clearly a different person
1+1=2 but when Shane says 1+1=57 it's true because of the narrative
Narrative > Facts
Upsetti/hysterical laughter
8:01
10:20
16:14
27:40
Ive never seen revolushane like this😂😂😂....LMAOO..Seth really is goat
Seth on Pinpin's channel? Future debate between the two maybe🤔
You hear that? It's wind passing by
If you listen a little closer might even hear a few crickets😔
@@TheArtistDT that's unfortunate.
Literally the only time that Jiren showed any emotion was when he was caught off guard.
I mean to be honest what the hell is a narrative argument here?
If it was to be "Narrative," that means that there is a story being told to tell us they're equal like Goku v Frieza SSJ v 100% MAYBE GFrieza v Goku SSJB (Ressurection F) you can argue a narrative argument. As Frieza couldn't outright kill Goku, but he was likely just as strong.
The funniest thing is, AS PROVEN, Cumber doesn't use SSJ the same way Vegeta does, and uses it against those who deserve it.
But why within the first few seconds Jiren tossed SSJ?
I'm going to just stop because of the pinned comment. LoL
The thing is it was ssj3 (or at least that's how it looks) and jiren still didn't show any emotion
THE COMMENTS ARE THE NARRATIVE! ❤️
Bruh Shane lost in the first 20 mins. How is this an hour long??? I'm wondering should i even watch the whole thing LoL
Nvrmnd just read the pinned comment time to dip LoL.
Seth is a good boy who gives people more time than they probly should need, probly over a benefit of a doubt since he clearly actually tries to convince people and not just prove them wrong.
Honestly it's the one quality that probly makes him very approachable in a debating setting.
Bruh Shane lost as soon as he stepped up to Seth
@@siqueirosev5468 first 10 minutes 😂
This reminds me of the “lightening=light speed” 😭
😭😭😭
@KORI CUNNINGHAM Is that in reference to my name or the horrendous showcase of logic that was Revolushane in this video?
Lmao afro and kabuki?
Shane doesn’t considers it a debate but agrees to do a conclusion so it can be judged? That’s fishy. DAWG SHANE EVEN USED FALLACYS. 56:04
And Seth tell him it’s a debate at 56:31 ok Shane “I didn’t realize it’s a debate”
As someone close to Shane, he thought it would be a civil discussion and Seth thought Shane understood how things went down in his server.
But this shouldn’t be allowed to be on RUclips for the simple reason that Shane never gave permission for Seth to use his voice, let alone monetize the video.
What Seth is saying is.
The entire Time space is as durable as it is plus it has Zamasu's durability added to that universe.
*Goes back to watch the jiren vs cumber fight*
*comes back to this video to comment after finishing it*
Dam seth u really had to bully him like that
Am so fucking happy that these are public once more. I never watched these and I am having so much fun listening to these.
You missed out, this shit is GOLD I forgot how hilarious this one was 😂
If you haven’t already next time you can sit down for a whirl turn on broly wars.
Android Saga SSJ Vegeta said he was invicible so clearly he slaps
Bruh, is this guy for real? So a 50x stronger Cumber gets out wrestled and kicked away by Jiren and he's still saying Jiren is not stronger than base Cumber? Guess he doesn't know how math works 🤦🏾♂️
It’s worst then that cumber actually went ssj3 so a 400x stronger cumber got out wrestled and kicked away by jiren
@@Binks7077 then this guys is just flat out delusional
@@tunekas01 yeah he’s said some very interesting things in the past when it comes to scaling characters
@@Binks7077 then he's just one of those that like to state "facts" without any argument to prove that at all 🤣
He'd the same guy that thinks broly is way stronger than jiren.
‘Do you wanna watch it? Let’s watch it right now” 😂
Oh my God. It's been awhile since I watched Seth getting spicy. This was hilarious.
Lol pretty sure Jiren was deadass beating cumber, wasn’t he ssj???😂 how do you get he’s stronger in BASE when he wasn’t in ssj
He was ssj3
@@kameronwinchester9593 EVEN WORSE LMAO
@@donovan12340 oh trust it is bad, and we can put Jiren far above cumber, cause Jiren is about equal to MUI Goku and MUI Goku slapped Jiren
@@donovan12340 even worse is the fact that cumbers ssj3 isnt normal ssj3, its ssj3 full power LUL
You realize cumber is insanely powerful right??? His base form is retarded powerful. But I don’t think he’s more powerful then jiren surpassed
I actually went and watched Jiren vs Cumber mid-way through the actual debate and there is no way Base Cumber = Jiren from visuals alone you can clearly see Jiren is not really serious and he's clapping Base Cumber,the way i understood it was that Cumber was referring to their full power when he said Seems we're evenly matched and then im pretty sure he goes SSJ3,not Super Saiyan,as the eyebrows disappear and Jiren still can hang with him and push him back,and while i do believe SSJ3 Cumber or Golden Oozaru Cumber(whichever is his stronger state cause its really hard to tell with heroes scaling) is stronger than Jiren at their full power,there is no way in hell Base Cumber = Jiren.
Yeah the only thing that shows Jiren is trying at all is a few grunts and a light scowl
Cumber wasn't using the Dark Aura vs Jiren
But jiren can increase on command w/o powering up based on his fight with ui omen first fight. Only power up if he needs to later. So we may can assume base jiren ~ ui omen goku (1st time).
Base cumber is clearly on that level based on feats alone. The difference is speed.
@@Jiron127 Don't try to equate DBS Logic to SDBH Logic,since besides characters they are two completely different shows that follow different logic and scaling,and as for Base Cumber being on the level of Jiren thats just a no,Seriously all u guys need to confirm that is watch the damn episode where they fight,there is a clear Power & Speed Difference between them,Hell Jiren even shows signs that he can match and overpower SSJ3 Cumber let alone Base Cumber.
@@Jiron127 dbsh jiren is way stronger than his dbs counterpart try again
Why seth being bad ass and making adults cry😂
Is Seth young?
@@davepierre7492 not the point 😑
@@davepierre7492 Seth is in his early 20s
Shane has been watching too much Dragon Ball Evolution. And It shows.
Hey Seth, could you possibly post a recording of you debating somebody on Jiren vs Super Broly (if you have one)
For me broly is stronger only for me! I got my proof
1st of all in the tournament of power Goku achieve a lot lot lot lot lot lot of zenkai especially in jirien cuz you can get zenkai if you train super hard or near death and Goku and Vegeta achieve all of does zenkai that means there base form is crazy crazy stronger than the base Goku from the tournament of power and broly slapping Goku and Vegeta in SSJB and they even need to fuse just to match broly remember that that Goku is the one who achieve the MUI that jerien fought that means base Goku is a literal monstrosity and being fuse with Vegeta for like 400 x and stack super Saiyan blue Wich is for me has a multyplier of 10,000 cuz super Saiyan God is atleast 2000 multyplier and blue is 5 time stronger than that 🙃
@@z3n023 Just because Goku got a lot stronger in the Tournament of Power doesn't mean his base form is equal to Complete Ultra Instinct during the Broly Movie. One thing that people fail to realize is that Broly was trying to kill Goku and Vegeta the entire movie, while in the Tournament Jiren was constantly holding back against them. If killing was allowed in the Tournament of Power then Jiren could've easily killed both Goku and Vegeta multiple times.
@@Sword_Man_YT But it does mean that SSB Gogeta is definetly superior to MUI Goku from the ToP when you consider how wanked the fusion multiplier is.
@@prometheusmodelow8322 And the boost from Complete Ultra instinct is said to be on the level of the fusion multiplier as well, and plus we saw the longer Goku used Complete Ultra Instinct the stronger he became in it.
@@Sword_Man_YT Yeah, it is definetly a similar boost, but i think the fusion multiplier is bigger, just look at the insane boost Kefla got when the two of them couldn't even touch SS2 Goku, while he needed UI to beat Kefla. Also, its' very clear that Goku is way stronger than he was in the ToP when you take into account the zenkais he gained in the torunament itself and after it, and he got training with Vegeta for some time before the Broly fight, i think that's enough evidence to prove that Gogeta is superior.
Funny thing is in the manga Toppo goes into his god of destruction form and is evenly matched with Cumber. It's until kamioren joins in where Toppo needs Jiren's help. Jiren oneshots kamioren and Cumber is transported away because they tell him he's not powerful enough to beat Jiren. Golden Metal Cooler then proceeds to fuck up ssj3 Cumber.
Revolushane loved to bring up narrative, I wonder what he'd think about the heroes manga verbatim saying Jiren was stronger than Cumber?
Pretty sure the Debate was SDBH Anime Jiren vs Cumber,which is a whole different debate as there is nothing in the anime to suggest that Jiren or Toppo are that strong against Cumber especially Toppo who clearly got shitstomped by supressed Base Cumber in the Anime,so your argument is redundant to this video.
@@mvp746 Of course they're referring to the anime. I brought up the manga as a supporting argument not to use it as my main take. You saying Cumber was suppressed is headcanon as we don't know what happened, all we see is an unconscious Toppo lying on the ground. It's almost as if you didn't even watch the episode where Ssj3 cumber couldn't even land a hit whereas Jiren was clearly handling Cumber who was a ssj3. Manga or anime it's clear that Cumber would have lost to Jiren. Jiren never brought out his aura once while Cumber has and still failed to land a single hit. You must be smooth brained if you think Cumber stood a chance.
@@kaystruenoo You cant bring up the manga as a supporting argument for the Anime,that is again redundant as they are mostly separate continuities almost always things happen differently in the manga and the scaling is way different,and tf u mean by "all we see is Toppo lying in the ground" what more do you need bro? he is barely breathing and visibly heavily damaged on the ground the guy cant even get up on his feet while Cumber doesnt even have a scratch on him if thats not enough evidence for you that Manga follows a completely different scaling and Anime Cumber >>> Manga Cumber then you my friend are Braindead and in denial and the Aura argument from Seth and you is just outright wrong in this scenario,since you guys seem to be implying SBDH Anime follows the complete same logic as Super Does, Also Jiren got his ass handed to him by Golden Hearts and he never powered up there either,which just shows how seth was dead wrong on this point of the debate,In fact Jiren even when he seemingly went up to help Gogeta and yelled his lungs out which implied he was using near full power or actually full power he didnt show his Aura,which is just undeniable proof that the Aura argument is just wrong.
@@kaystruenoo Also just so you know im not saying that SSJ3 Cumber > Jiren that is debatable,while on a previous comment i said that i believe full power SSJ3 Cumber would win as he could potentially adapt and overcome Jiren if we imply he was weaker to begin with and Cumber seemingly has a really big Stamina Reserve that is probably bigger than even Goku's since he can just shit out forms and maintain them with no strain like SSJ3,which is shown when Golden metal cooler shits on him and he's almost unconcious on the ground and he still doesnt drop out from SSJ3 whereas Goku always struggles with SSJ3 especially if he's fatigued, and there could still be a chance Golden Oozaru Cumber > SSJ3 Cumber and if thats the case because u know inconsistent scaling and all that,then i do believe Golden Oozaru > Jiren aswell,seeing how in their oozaru forms saiyans have almost 0 stamina drain and a weaker Golden oozaru cumber was already
beating a SSBKKx20 Vegito who is at least comparable to Blue Gogeta who is faaaaar stronger than Jiren.
@@mvp746 That depends if you believe Ssj3 cumber is stronger than his Golden Oozaru. Ssj4 Xeno Vegito was handling Cumber while Blue Vegito with kaioken was stuggling, scaling was highly inconsistent in that show as we see Blue Vegito getting overwhelmed and ssg Goku was keeping up with Oozaru Cumber. The wonky scaling makes this a lot more difficult than it should be. Ssbkk Vegito fights base Cumber and isn't able to beat him, Ultra instinct Goku completely god stomps base Cumber and we know Jiren (limits broken) is comparable to complete UI Goku, but Gogeta was able to defeat a stronger Hearts who's above Cumber. I still don't get how Ssbkk Vegito couldn't beat Cumber but Blue Gogeta was able to beat Godslayer Hearts who is far stronger than Cumber.
Shane @ 11:32 : I was told you were a fucking good debater
Shane in his response video: I had no idea we were debating 😞
“No but the narrative” 😂😂😂😂
Something I've come to realise after listening to Seth debate for as long as I have; if Seth calls you buddy, he already knows he's right.
That is some drippy hawk tuah mate, no cap.
this guys hilarious, its amazing that people can watch one person clearly start losing the fight, and still they think because BIG MACHO MAN SAYS OOOH IM STRONGER THEN YOULL EVER BE YOU WEAKLING- which is a thing people in dragon ball say all the time right before their deaths, that what cumber says literally matters at all- he litally almost stood up inside of hearts's gravity attack WITHOUT POWERING UP and you think hes going to lose to BASE CUMBER?!?
The funny part is that Cumber was using ssj3 lmao
I live for these debates. It's funny seeing logic vs emotion. Thank you for these 🤙🏾🙏🏾
I hate that we’re scaling *heros* now
@DannyDaDuffyDucking Daffer that and it’s a bunch of poorly done fanservice. The moment I heard about time patrol ssj4 goku fighting blue goku I instantly knew it was trash
@@chrisburns9898 yeah you're right lol
Heroes is just aids like literally everyone is just low complex multiversal and they keep bringing back movie villains and giving them somehow even more amps lol.
@@jonshukulli6944 yeah, honestly. Don’t know if this is a popular opinion, but most dragonball non-canon shit is kinda cringy, so this almost gave me an aneurysm
@@chrisburns9898 I only like it when it comes to like a game like dokkan battle for example. We could use characters like limit breaker ssj4 xeno goku for example to help team building and improving rosters and shit like that. But as an actual medium it’s pretty retarded
"Anotha' one." - Seth, when asked if his child's whipping was sufficient.
How often does a anime villain say "im stronger than you and will destroy you" or something like that and in the next moment he gets obliberated? Why does Shane think, that when cumber says that they are "equal", it's an actual fact??
Frieza sees SSJ Goku and still says he’s stronger
Seth you literally boddied that guy, as expected
Ok who is stronger? Zamasu or Zamasu+time space?
“Zamasu because he surpassed timespace”
Didn’t Cumber also say he was ready to fight after getting dominated by G.M. Cooler only to immediately pass out?
I’m just going to boil this down to RevoluShane not being as knowledgeable 2 years ago as he is now. Because honestly the notion that Base Cumber and Jiren are equal because of 1 statement is nonsense.
But recent RevoluShane is a lot smarter and honestly I can say his points do make sense more times than not
Seth has really grown as an debater, great work ethic man. Keep it up!🤠
Seth: You know that post-fusion characters get stronger?
Shane: Where is that stated.
Bruh what?
Seth is wrong though.
Post fusion: Base Goku = Blue Vegito you can say that, but you would also have to admit that Base Caulifla post fusion is stronger than Ultra instinct Omen Goku.
@@vegito1012 one of them was the female version of broly and had the ability to grow stronger as the battles goes
@@jakobemoore4625 right I know that just saying Base form Caulifla is Omen 2nd awakening level is crazy. SSJ2 Caulifla would be stronger than mastered ultra instinct. Because Omen 2 to MUI is definitely not a 100x difference. But SSJ2 is 100x base.
It's always hilarious when Seth makes someone realize the faults in their own logic, and suddenly they turn to crying and complaining.... like, 10 minutes in and Seth destroyed him!
After he brought up Oozaru Cumber, the hole was dug too deep
I mean Hercule already said he's the strongest warrior in the universe so this debate is pointless.
Love Seth but sometimes these debates get so awkward
😅😅yeah
Jiren hit cumber so hard, cumbers aura depleted. lmaooo so equal.
"No but the narrative!"-Seth
That was Shane
@@xarshoon7157 No, Seth said it to him in a joking manner.
@@firelizardryko ah I thought you meant with his points
we have been eating these past days. please keep it coming
Yo I just watched the fight Cumber didn’t land not one hit on top of jiren countering and blocking every attack he threw
I love how Revo turned this into a debate about Goku's shitty Heroes scaling for no reason, it has no bearing with CUMber vs Jiren.
*Debate about base cumber vs jiren* proceeds to use ssj3 and golden oozaru
"Prove otherwise"
"I did !"
Lmaoooo
The "passion"/aura theory can be applied to almost all dragon ball characters. It's a very simple concept in dragon ball that if a character doesn't power up or has not shown show their aura, they are not going full power or not trying very hard. However, they could power up and then turn off their aura.
None of this happens with jiren during the cumber fight, whilst cumber powers up with an aura against jiren and uses super saiyan
Im 90% sure Seth was making the argument that the aura Jiren uses against MUI Goku in the TOP is different from the aura that the average fighter like Frieza or Cell. Jiren/UI Goku are the only ones given this very specific aura treatment centered around passion, instinct, and heat/flames, none of which are components of the aura we see normal Z Fighters use.
*FYI: Base Cumber actually went Super Saiyan 3 not Super Saiyan.* Cumber’s eyebrows vanished
HE DID DEBATE HIM
46:44 A father calms in exasperation as his foolish son still doesn’t get the point.
Imagine being so wrong on your original argument that you start arguing about two completely different characters. Seth easily won here.
why did it take 10 minutes to explain that mugen zamasu is fused zamasu + time and space?? that segment was painful
Cause people be dumb
Seth is great but he is fodder to this pinpin guy lol
In my personal opinion I think that Pinpin should’ve went over how both Super Buu and king piccolo from original Dragon Ball said they were omniscient in the manga when they clearly weren’t.😂
Took Seth less than 20 minutes to break this man
When cumber turns super saiyan against Jiren, he loses his eyebrows. So it’s actually Jiren kicking away SSJ3 Cumber.
Revolushane is still a clown to this day
Will you debate seth?
Iam really enjoying these debates man🔥👍🏽👍🏽
Problem is with Heroes you can't really debate their OC characters given how inconsistent the scaling is even by the standards of Dragon Ball. In one episode Cumber can rock Vegito Blue in Kaioken while he is in base form, but the next he is getting ragdolled by Metal Cooler in SSJ3. Like what the hell are you supposed to do?
Your supposed to sell cards of course
That Zamasu time-space section was so rough to listen to. Don’t know why it was so hard for him to understand
Lmao, I knew it, the revolushane guy is just a Jiren hater, no proofs nothing, he matches up Jiren against other people and say Jiren loses lol. Fool got owned by seth! He a Broly cukboy😂
Damn bro Shane is letting his emotions get the best of him. I thought so highly of him. I didn't think him capable of trying to turn it into a shouting match. Jesus man. If he's kept a cooler head THIS would of been one hell of a chill awesome debat. Fuck me dood.
You should have a standard for people to debate with you. They should at the very least, have common sense.
Keep feeding us with the content dad