3 years down the track and your videos are still being watched and helping, many thanks for taking the time to make the videos you that you do. so far you have got me out of some sticky situations where i was at my wits end. i'm only just getting into guiding and to be honest it is a dismal attempt lol. im hoping for some clear evening in the next few weeks to put all your suggestion into practice so fingers crossed many thanks streets astro
Thank you Graham I really appreciate your kind words. It was my intention to help as much as possible when I made the videos and its so nice to hear from people they have helped. Please feel free to message me or email at www.Astrobloke@outlook.com if you get any issues you cannot work out, happy to help. Good luck and clear skies
Credit where Credit is due 👍 quick up date managed a quick dash hour last night with your tips I've got the guiding down from a dismal 4.29 total error to 0.6 / 0.8 ish total error. One quick 5 minute image totally blown away with the amount of extra stars the sharpness of them and the general sharpness of the whole image. Still got the pec training to do on the next clear night. 👍 many thanks again.
Thanks for the, much needed, tutorial on how to turn on PEC. If you have never done this before and haven't got a clue (like me) this tutorial is a life saver. Many thanks guy’s.
Really glad it was helpful for you. Thank you for taking the time to comment. Please let me know how you get on and what improvements you get. Clear skies
Glenn, great how to video on generating and saving the PPEC curve for the EQ6R-Pro mount. I have tried to figure this out from time to time and didn't know about the PEC graph screen in EQMOD. The first clear night, I'll be working on getting my PPEC setup on my mount. Many thanks for taking the time to put it together and publishing it on RUclips. :-)
Excellent video. This something I hadn’t bothered with before as I assumed that PHD2 was sufficient and the two would be working against each other. Next clear night I’ll be recording a PEC curve and see if it helps....thanks again🤪
Hi Steve. Yes the pec will take care of the errors caused by tiny imperfections that are in your worm drive. So leaving PHD2 to just correct any other errors so should improve things for you. Joe's redid his PA and ran a new guide assistant the other night and his guiding was between 0.4 and 0.6 so a nice improvement for him.
Thanks SO much for this! I’ve been wanting to know how to do PEC for a while. I always thought you had to record a PEC curve with guiding off (so you’d waste imaging time), so it’s great to know you can do it while actually imaging. I also didn’t know you could record the curve in EQMOD. I thought you had to buy software like Pempro! Outstanding!! Subscribed 😊
Hi Stuart. You have to be guiding to record PEC and also leave dithering on as its pauses recording while dithering. Yes it does mean you can image while doing this. EQMOD does a great job and has a facility to build a smooth averaged PEC curve (PECPREP). This was quite involved and the reason I used PEMPRO to update my PEC curves as that program automatically builds a smooth curve for you (But its at a cost and not free) Good luck and if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Clear skies
@@Astrobloke Thanks. I've now got Pecprep and I've loaded in my PHD2 guide logs for it to analyse. I think this is another way to get a PEC curve right?
Thanks for the video - very helpful. I noticed that you made adjustments to PHD parameters whilst the PEC was recording - just wondered whether this could negatively affect the PEC curve?
Hi and thank you. The PEC is only effected by any movements outside of the guiding so does not influence the curve being recorded. Hope this helps and good luck.
Hi Glenn That was more interesting than I thought! I watched right to the end😀 very informative mate, when my mount gets here, I’ll give that a go! Cheers
Hi Glenn, thank you for this video! The only thing that I didn't get from the video at first was that I actually need clear skies and PHD2 up and running in order to recorde the PEC curve. By reading the comments I finally found that information. I was trying to record my PEC curves during the daytime and they were "amazing" :D Only 0.01arcsec when analysing the data with PecPrep ... to good to be true. So now I have to wait for CS again. Thanks ;)
Hi and sorry that was not clear in the video. the measurement is the harmonics of the worm drive while tracking and guiding. Hope you get clear skies soon and can get it done. I did mine while also imaging so at least you don't lose the clear night
Great video, thank you! I do have a question about the algorithms in PHD2. Does it matter which ones you use? Is it best to use Predictive PEC for RA and Resist Switch for Dec? I was reading on the PHD2 site that Lowpass2 is also very good. Do you have any insight on these? Do any of them conflict with the EQMOD PEC? Thanks!
Hi Glen, brilliant tutorial! I’ve recently started looking at how to improve my guiding and this will help me chip away at it. Just finished my first year with Astrophotography, and my rms has always been rubbish with my Rowan mod HEQ5 from FLO. Best I can achieve is 3” and normally 5” or more ☹️. I’m wide field with a WO GT81, 0.8 reducer so 378mm FL, and full frame asi6200mm. My pictures however are quite good so it hasn’t bothered me too much, but the rms is starting to bug me. The corrections are quite equal for DEC and RA so not sure what’s going on. Thinking of getting an EQ6 and sending the HEQ5 back for FLO to look at whilst within warranty (can’t live without a mount 😂) If I start stripping it down it will void the warranty. Again, brilliant video, very useful! Kevan
Hi Kevan and thank you. I bought a used HEQ5 and i know I stripped mine down but that guiding does not seem right. Even without tuning you should be 1” or just either side of that. Try out the autopec as that can sometimes reveal if you have a mechanical issue. I would speak to FLO especially if still under warranty
Have you tried to do a Calibration when you first start up? I think its a Shift+Click on the Guide button. Your issues sound familiar and doing that and then using Guide Assistance changed my numbers dramatically.
@@jameslyons3306 Hi James, thanks for the suggestion. I only calibrate in PHD2 ( within Asiair pro) occasionally because it takes a while to complete and wasn’t aware it needed recalibrating every session. However, I will try that going forward. I’ll try anything for better guiding 😂. Glen suggested autopec but I do not have a Windows laptop as I’m all Apple Mac. I started Astrophotography with my AsiAir Pro and for me it helped calm that massive learning curve starting out. Yesterday I was just about to order an EQ6-R Pro (start building for a bigger OTA) use that and send my HEQ5 back to be checked. My plan would be to have two rigs making maximum use of our rare clear skies. Would be a shame to invest in a laptop just to use occasionally to diagnose anomalies, but maybe that comes with this expensive hobby. I’ll certainly try calibration every session to see what happens and report back. Might be a while with our weather. Thanks, Kevan
Great video. Recently acquired a new to me AZ-EQ5 and after some worm bearing replacement and re-greasing I am running around .75 RMS. Running PEC training now. Hoping to get the RMS down. Fingers crossed zero subs dropped. :-)
Hi B, thanks for commenting. You should be able to get the numbers lower and PEC training may be the key, please let me know how you get on and if I can help at all.
Hi brilliant tutorial glen im hoping to try this soon as get decent clear skies, one thing some of the video the screen was a bit blurred to see it properly ,otherwise spot on thank you.
Hi and thanks for the comments. Sorry about that. A lot of the footage was not planned but just a screencapture of a session I was doing with Joe as a capture video. But we decided the information was something a lot of people wanted to see. If I can confirm anything thats not clear please let me know.
Just a Question from my side: While you capturing the PEC Curve, was the Backslash Compensation activated in PHD2? Thanks for your comment, and also a big thx for the video., it´s awesome. Greetings
Hi and thank you for watching and commenting, I am glad the video was helpful. I personally record the PEC with backlash comp off. Just basic guiding and once done I then run guide assist with the PEC active and finish with a fresh calibration. Clear skies
@@Astrobloke You say this procedure can be done during daytime, for example in the garage. Is it necessary to have all equpment (scope, camera, counterweights, etc.) mounted while doing this?
Fabulous tutorial, thanks! One question. If I record the PEC training using PHD into my EQ6 with that stick with the mount when I image with a ZWO ASIAIR? I don't normally use PHD to image. Thanks again!
Hi John. I unfortunately have never used Asiair and so not 100% on how PEC works with it. With EQmod it records the periodic error thats detected while guiding with PHD2. I have friends with Asiair and will make a point to see exactly how that works and put together a workflow
In the mount manual, I only saw that PEC was available via the handset. Having this function in EQMOD and your step by step instructions in this video, how to make it permenant, showing the improvements after the change is a godsend. Thank you for the excellent explanation! PS I know that feeling about seeing conditions, I'm living near the coast in Wales :)
I am very happy that you found this helpful. Yes being 24m from sea level and by the coast has its challenges. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. Clear skies
@@Astrobloke Hey, I've come back to give you an update. After introducing PEC to my mount, my guiding has dramatically improved. I used to guide between 1.0" and 1.5" (total) but for the past few nights it's been hovering between 0.4" and 0.7" (total). Amazing!
Well done, guys - it helped so much - thx! One question: can I check the motors? I have doubt that they work properly in my second hand HEQ5 - is there something to check on the quality of the motors. I mean, maybe they had a hard time before I bought the mount? Maybe the mount crashed into the tripod or so - I have really a hard time to make PHD2 work most of the time. And this ist why I want to check the second hand gear as good as possible. Thanks in advance for any ideas and answers. Cheers from Germany.
Hi Pat and thank you for the comment. How do the motors sound when it slews? can you explain more on the PHD2 problems (is it just bad guiding or not working at all)
@@Astrobloke Thx for the fast response. The motors sounds ok actually. But PHD2 only runs properly in 25% of my sessions. The PHD2 calibration fails most of the times and PHD gives Feedbacks like „RA/DA axis angles are questionable and guiding may be impared“ and that the angle between DA/RA should be around 90 degrees and the orthogonal failure is usually smaller 10 degree - the orthogonal failure in my mount was 17 degrees. I have the feeling that there is a mechanical problem in the worm gear or/and motors. Should I strip the mount down and take a look on the gear - will I see inaccuracies or damages? Thank you very much in advance. Cheers, Pat
Hi Robert. I did put a follow up note above. Basically with the HEQ5 you record autopec as shown in the video. That mount does not have a sensor on the wormdrive so cannot be saved as a ppec. But click the spanner symbol below where the pec curve is recorded and tick the autopec box. This will load this pec everytime you connect to your mount. The only thing you need to ensure is that you park your mount before switching off or you will have to record a new pec curve as it will lose sync with the wormdrive
Really excellent video Glenn. I live by the coast too near Eastbourne so get your comments on humidity. Should I turn off Dithering while recording a PEC curve. I often get quite big swings in the guiding while a dither happens and the guiding doesn't always quite catch up before the next exposure starts. Will this affect the PEC curve accuracy. Many thanks, Alan
Hi Alan and thank you. You can leave dithering on as the guiding and pec is paused while going through the dithering routine. I tend to leave it on as I record a PEC while imaging. It would be fine however if you want to turn it off but will not make much difference. The recording is looking for regular errors that are not linked to guiding but the mechanical imperfections of your worm drive and gears. Its just needs to be guiding to be able to record the PEC
@@Astrobloke Hi again Glenn. I completed the PEC training on my EQ3 Pro mount and just for a laugh I tried a 20 minute sub and it worked perfectly and I was amazed so thanks to you for that. I switched to a different wider field scope, redid the PHD2 calibration and got problems. So 2 questions for you. How near to meridian and celestial equator do I need to be to do a PHD2 calibration ? Also, is it better or is it wrong to do a PHD2 calibration on the target that I intend to image? Cheers
@@alantidey2995 for an accurate and solid calibration you need the star to move as much as possible hence as close to the equator as possible. I aim to slew both the RA and DEC to zero co ordinates. On the DEC zero is not always possible and depends on your view. I have a restricted south view so get the DEC as close to zero as possible
Thanks Glenn, on your AZGTi what do you set PHD2 at for that mount as I have that same mount and would like to know what your setting are in PHD2 PLEASE, I understand that my AZGTi in not the same as your but I would like to try your setting and see if it's better than the default PHD2 that I am using, Sad to say I don't think the AZGTi has PEC?? LOVE YOUR CHANNEL and you always get a thumbs up from me!!!
On RA aggr is set at 65 and min mo 20. Dec Aggr 100 min mo 28. run multi star guiding 1.5 - 2 secs. you could try these but best you run a guide assistant and apply those settings. No pec training unfortunately
Thanks for the video. My guiding is really bad...+/-2" so looking for some useful tips. A question I have is....what if you've done the PEC on EQMOD and then use an ASIAIR Plus? Will the mount still do the corrections internally, or do you have to run EQMOD every time?
Its a good question and something you will have to test. Once the PEC is recorded to the mounts motors when active the light on the mount repeatedly flashes 3 times. So get it working and if you start up ASIAIR and the mount is still flashing I would say it was active. You may be able to also turn it on with the handset, just not sure 100%
@@Astrobloke Thanks for making and sharing your video. I tried it tonight and my auto-guiding went from 0.75-0.85 to 0.45-0.55 once the PEC training turned on after 9 worm gear cycles. I have a EQ6-R Pro and my scope is a William Optics 120 (780mm focal length). My PEC curve is not a nice sine wave like you have ...
@@2badger2 hi. Great news that it improved guiding so much. Don’t worry about the sine wave shape as what is really important is the correction to the periodic error. Every PEC curve is different. You can use pecprep to smooth it out but its quite a complicated process and won’t improve the guiding any further.
@@Astrobloke Thanks that's good to know. The math must be smarter than I imagined. So recording the PEC should have no impact on my imaging session at all. Thanks Glenn
Hi, unfortunately no it has to be under guiding conditions for it to work. If you have a curve recorded you can do the saving from EQmod to your mount at anytime so that bit can be in the day
I’ve heard about PEC, but this was a great info and how to video. So I have done the Rowan Belt mod to my HEQ5 mount, will it still benefit from PEC training?
Good mod. The eq6 R Pro comes belt driven. It smooths out the mount and removes most of the backlash. The PEC however is the errors in the worm drive that your mount still has so this will still benefit you.
Great video, thanks. I have just recorded a PEC curve for my HEQ5, however it did not look anything like your nice sine curve though?? However, although my Eqmod version is the same V2.00q, I did not get the same options in the Development Training Area? All I have are the two top options Feature Set and Polar Scope but I do not have Record PPEC , Enable PPEC or the two snap Ports. Are you able to advise why I do not get these options, please?
Someone else with an HEQ5 has also found this, I am researching why that’s not there. For now you have pec working via auto pec, just make sure you park the Mount before you power down and it will start up automatically every time. I will look into why HEQ5 seems different and how PPEC can be done
@@Astrobloke I was wondering if you had a chance to look into the HEQ5 version of PPEC, like @julian489289, I am on the HEQ5 and I too, do not have "Record/Enable PPEC" under Development Training Area. My version is also V2.00q. Thank you! Appreciate the help :)
@@Astrobloke Great video. I also have a HEQ5 and in the development area, PEC is not there. Recognize that this will not be a problem as when I park PEC will be saved. With autopec on, I should be good to go for the next imaging system.
Great video! Question, though. The "Record PPEC" button that you show in the right-most panel of EQASCOM is not present on mine. I have installed the latest version of EQASCOM, but all I see in that panel is the "Polar Scope LED" Slider. I am using an HEQ5 (Sirius) mount and I can record the PEC with PHD2 running, apply it to guiding, etc.....but I don't ahve the button to "transfer" it to the mount. Any ideas?
Hi Jeff. That feature is not available for the HEQ5 as it does not have a position encoder on the RA wormdrive. You can still record a pec curve and apply it the same just not able to save to the mount. So record the curve and tick the spanner in the recording area and make sure autopec box is checked, then whenever you reconnect that PEC curve will be applied. Just make sure you always park the scope before powering down. If you don’t it will lose the worm position and you will have to record a new curve. As long as its in its parked position before you next power up it will carry on with the sam PEC. Releasing the clutches and moving the scope is ok as this does not Move the worm. Hope that all makes sense.
@@Astrobloke Thanks! I was hoping to be able to transfer to the mount, as I have already failed to park it (4am, tired, get forgetful) and lost the PEC. I'll have to write it in bold caps on my checklist....or time to get a new mount :-).
The other day I recorded a pec for my NEQ6 mount while guiding with PHD2 and running EQMOD. As clouds was passing by during the session, I am sceptical to the validity of the curve. If I record a new, will it overwrite the old? Can’t find where the curve is stored. And what happens when you loosen the dec/ra clutch to balance, wouldn’t the pec and mount be out of sync? I also now want to mount the guide cam paralelle to the main cam instead hanging off the side of the scope for better balance. To do this I have to rotate the dec axis 90 degrees. I guess this will surely invalidate the pec...? Thanks!
Hi. If you record a new PEC curve it will replace what you currently have in place. When you release the clutches the gear turns and the worm drive does not move but moves with the axis as you turn in. This means the Pec is fine and not lost as the worm drive starts from the same position on the gear as when you stopped or turned off your mount.
A small update guys. The HEQ5 does not have a Sensor on the worm like the EQ6. EQMOD will not show PPEC. You can still record and autopec and this will automatically apply whenever you use the mount. Make sure you park your mount after use and turning off. Moving the mount by releasing the clutches is fine as this does not disturb the worm position. I am sorting some more details on this subject and will release a video shortly on how to use pecprep.
Hello Glenn, I have an EQ6R as well and want to train my PEC, but I use the ASIAir Pro for all of my astroimaging. Once the PEC is loaded into the motor controllers on the mount, I am curious if the PEC will work in the background while using the ASIAIR app?
@@Astrobloke Glenn thanks so much. Your channel is so informative. I appreciate all you do and I know everyone else does as well. I love the ASIAir Pro, but I believe I am going to start branching out and using some other software to capture as well since there are some great tools and functions I am missing out on. Thanks again!
@@MayfieldCreekObservatory you're welcome and thanks. I am not finding a direct answer to this but I read that you can set the ASIAIR to run in EQMOD mode is that correct? I turn on the PPEC for my EQ6 in EQMOD and wondered if it was saved in the mounts worm encoder, if so maybe you could do the same via the ASIAIR?
Magnificent! My error graph looks nothing like the one in this video. It has so many different peaks and dips, vs his looks like a sine wave. It works regardless. So happy for this. Question, I have EQMOD V 2.00u, and I dont have that record function on the right where you can record it to your motors permanently. Was it moved?
This is real useful information Glenn, I haven't looked at PEC yet but gonna try this one out. Just so I'm sure I can run the PEC routine whilst imaging? Nice clear video Cheers 👍
Hi. Great video! I believe you mentioned in the video that you can run a PEC training during the day. I thought I also heard/read that PHD2 needs to be running in order to do a PEC training. Can I train during the day? Thanks.
Hi Michael. You do need to be guiding to train the PEC. The daytime bit is only the last part of the process of transferring the recorded PEC curve to the actual mount motors.. everything else needs to be with stars and while guiding. Hope this helps
Hi Nicholas. I don't think that would be a problem and it didn't cause me any issues. Just do not slew or have a meridian flip happen while recording the curve
Sorry for the question as it should be assumed I think but, you started all this AFTER doing the initial Calibration at the start of PHD2 guiding? Yes? Informative vid and I plan to implement ASAP, THANKS!
Hi James. Yes this was Joes initial set up which had the calibration already done and he had even ran a guide assistant previously but only the short 2 mins one.
Hei Glen! Sorry for bothring you agin. Had some semi-clear skies yesterday and tried to record a PEC curve. I wanted to analyse the data using PECPrep. Unfortunately EQMOD seems to "average" the data from the 9 worm cycles and generates one output curve. So analysing this curve in PECPrep does not make a lot of sence. I also tried to load a PHD2 logfile, but it failed. Have you tried to work with PECPrep? Are there other ways to record a PEC curve outside of EQMOD? Thanks a lot!
Hi there. I recently discuss this on my most recent video The EQ8 Update. I have tried to use Pecprep and found it very confusing and just didn't feel comfortable with any results I got. I have recently purchased a program called PEMPRO which is a far superior program for PEC. Its a cost unfortunately but I think does a much better job. It does not use PHD2 but guides itself while recording your periodic errors and then analysis and builds a smoothed curve automatically for you which then can just be loaded straight into EQMOD. From there you can record that to your mount. I am working on a video showing all this and hope to release soon.
Really useful video. Thank you. I’m in the process of building a small observatory with a pier for my AZEQ6GT. I usually get around 0.7 with my 65mm refractor and about 0.9 with the 105mm refractor. Hoping this will get me down in the 0.5 or less as I’ll have better PA too. I also have the HEQ5pro mount which I’ll use on its tripod for mobile imaging. Can EQmod store more than one autopec? Maybe I’d need to make the permanent pec active when using the AZEQ6GT then use autopec for the other one? Would be nice to have it for both mounts. Thanks again for a very informative and helpful video. Clear skies.
Hi John. Thank you for the kind comments. I know eqmod can save specific curves so you could load one for the autopec on the Heq5. if you transfer the other pec curve into your eq6 mount that will be saved there. I run my heq5 off a laptop so have a separate eqmod for that. I have a had a spell of clear nights lately and the EQ6 has been at 0.4 so I know you can get yours down there, the pier will help. I just hyper tuned my Heq5 and put a video up of it if you haven't seen it. Made a huge difference and now guiding 0.3 - 0.6. I am planning to do the same for the EQ6 now.. Good luck with your project.
@@Astrobloke I watched the HEQ5pro video and May well do the bearings on mine. I know you said they ship internationally but I’ll need to check things as since Brexit getting anything to or from the UK is a nightmare. I had to get all sorts of paperwork just to send my Lodestar x2 back for a repair! I’ll look into it though and see what’s needed re VAT and duties etc. Really pleased to have found your channel. I’ll be checking out more videos from you. 👍
I have been looking for this quite a while, this is great really! Thank you both of you for making this. Just wondering a question, we need to train the PEC again, when we unmount the scope and mount it the next day, right ?
You are welcome. No once the pec is saved its there. It only records and corrects the periodic errors in the wormdrive so no need rerun if you tear down.
@@Astrobloke thanks a lot for the quick reply! 🥰Did you ever have a chance to compare EQMod’s PPEC and PHD2 ‘s Predictive PEC ? .. or would you recommend to use both ? 🤔
@@eerkunt i don’t use both together. When I have made comparisons in the past I have found the mounts PPEC to be the better if the two. But things progress so you never know. Like the multistar guiding, things are always improving
Hi great video. I have a CGX and two scopes I use on it. A 8 inch SCT, and a 275mm Refractor. Quite a weight difference but I use the same guide scope for each. Do I need to make different PEC curves for each configuration?
@@Astrobloke thanks, i thought so too. You say that mount have to be parked after for it to work. How about slewing the motors when not in EQMOD? And how about for example unclutching - change position of the scope and "re"-clutching again? Will that also mess up the PEC curve youre using?
@@Hegegutt slewing is fine as long as after you park the Mount before switching off. This is only with auto pec. With PPEC it doesn’t matter as the information is stored in the mounts motors . Releasing the clutches is ok too as you don’t move the worm drives when doing this
Hi Glenn, thanks for your useful video! I was wondering, do I need to do anything in particular while eqmod is recording the periodic error? Should I run phd2 or it is going to disturb the process somehow? If not, can the procedure be done in daytime? Cheers Andrea
Hi Andrea. It would be so cool if you could do this in the day but unfortunately you need to be guiding to measure the Periodic errors. You definitely need to be running PHD2 and then record the PEC. The only thing you can do at any time is the transfer or recording of the PPEC from EQMOD to the mounts motors.
Hi again Glenn. I have another question for you. If you go to the EQMOD's left panel screen (where the wrench button is located that you click on to set the gain), there are save and load buttons to the left of the wrench button. What are those for? My EQ6 Pro does not allow me to save PEC training to the mount itself so I was wondering if these buttons would be useful to me for saving the training. Thanks.
Hi Michael. You have to just make sure you tick autopec and make sure if turning off the mount you park it first. If you click save it will save your curve so you can reload it should it disappear.
Quick question: Since you are recording pec during imaging, I guess you are also dithering? Recording pec does not matter if dithering or not? Thanks for very informative and useful videos!
Hi, and thanks for a informative video! I am not in to guiding yet as I try to keep my setup as simple as possible. But I realize I have probably reach my limit of 'no guiding' imaging... I have a NEQ6 mount from Sky Watcher. Independent of exposure time, from say 75 sec up to 240 sec unguided, consistent across the image, and pretty much consistent over various imaging sessions, I get slightly egg-shaped stars when zoomed in. I polar align the old fashion way by the polar scope, and try as best as I can to be accurate. As my 'eggs' are so consistent, I am leaning towards periodic error rather than bad polar alignment. Am I correct if I understand that guiding is required to record the periodic error, but once the curve is recorded, and stored, EQMOD will apply these corrections, even when not guiding?
Should I do my PEC training via EQ ASCOM without guiding with PHD2 or while guiding? Also, when I go to make my PEC permanent, I do not have the "Record PPEC" options under the "Development Testing Area" box. Do you know why I don't see this options? I am using an Orion Sirius EQ-G. Thanks!
do your PEC training while guiding. you can even do this while imaging. Just don't slew or run calibration or guide assist while PEC training. I have heard a few people say the development area is empty. I am not sure if this is due to EQMOD version or an issue with the software. it could be empty if the feature is not available for the mount being used, I am struggling to get a definitive answer to this but will add to this post when I do. You still have the Autopec feature that you can use.
A couple more silly questions. What does the first P of PPEC stand for? I have an EQ6R-Pro that I drag out each night. When I'm lifting it I have the clutches off and both axes move. I then put the axes in the home position by eye and lock the clutches. Would a PPEC recorded into the mount be able to work out which part of the recording should sync with where the worm is or is PPEC invalid once clutches have been released and the mount manually moved and clutches reengaged? I hope this makes sense.
The P stands for Permanent. Unlocking the clutches will not cause any problems. When you start guiding and turn the PPEC on the mount will know when to start applying the curve once it syncs with the worm. It will do this for you
They say when you make the exposure in guiding longer (2seconds and longer) you ignore more pulses, resulting in better guiding. If you have a short exposure like 0.5sec or even less, you have alot of pulses, and your guiding is all over the place and way higher. True?
It really depends on your mount and other factors like seeing. I know some that guide at less than 0.5sec. I have tried but never had great results. After many nights trying exp from 0.5 -5 i always settle at 1.5 sec and for me is the sweet spot.
Does it matter where in the sky you are guiding when training the PEC? Is it better at a higher altitude, near or away from the meridian, does it matter?
@@tempusfugit6820 Thats a very good question and one I am not sure of the answer, The tracking rate stays the same so it might not be needed but I personally would record a new curve if I changed any settings like that
This is not a mount that I have any experience with I am afraid. I believe pec training is available through the handset but would have to be done each time as that will not save the data. You could see if EQAscom and eqmod would save and apply an autopec like it does on the HEQ5.
Once the curve has been sent into the mount, how do you get it going the next time you image? Which button needs to be activated to get it going again?
If you are using EQMOD open up the full app by clicking the 3arrows and on the far right you will see a box called enable PPEC. Check this box and press refresh. If you have the PEC recorded to the mounts motors the light on your mount will flash 3 times.
I get nice guiding between 0.3 and 0.6 RMS on one side of the pier consistently then on the opposite pier I get 3-4 arc second dips in RA every 2 minutes consistently that ruins my subs. Any ideas?
Hi there. Its a hard one to call as it can be a number of things. Double check your balancing (don’t forget 3rd axis as this could be the cause). It sounds like there is maybe an issue with the gear in one direction which could be a manufacturing fault or even a bit of dirt. Not sure how you are with mechanics but I would strip the mount and clean the worm gear and inspect it for any damage or major imperfections. Please let me know how you get on
I would have preferred you implement the pec training without adjusting the aggressiveness in phd2, just to see the true effect of pec. How would someone know if pec improved the guiding or the phd2 adjustments?
Thats what we did. If you watch it again you’ll see the PHD2 was adjusted before PEC was active. The PHD2 adjustments made a good difference to the initial guiding. After PEC was recorded and then run on Joe’s mount he saw a further improvement all be it a small one. You could also do PEC first then PHD2. Really you just don’t want to see any guiding numbers go the wrong way.
Hi Glenn,Can dithering still be used with PEC also when training pec would I be able to take images with dithering active or will I have to run training and wait a hour as we no uk weather don't play ball.
My PEC-curve is not at all a smooth sinus-like curve like in this video. It's more like a roller coaster plus one quick dip down before returning to the centre line. What the fudge am I doing wrong?
It won't always be a smooth sinewave and this doesn't mean you have done it wrong. I am working on a video at the moment using a program called Pecprep that takes your data and makes a corrected smoothed PEC curve for you automatically. This can be done in EQMOD's Pecprep but is a bit more work and a lot of reading needed.
@@Astrobloke Hello again, Back when I made the above comment, I had no idea how PEC worked or how to produce such curves. I made one crucial mistake, which now in hindsight actually is quite embarrassing... But that does not matter anymore. Now, I actually do understand how it works, mostly. Though, the thing is that my mount seems to perform worse than every other one that I have seen. For instance, some stats from PHD2 during my latest session: RA 0.93'' RMS error, -4.57*'' peak DEC 0.80'' RMS error, 4.05'' peak Total 1.22'' Both axes have lots of peaks in both directions. RA has an obvious sinusoidal shape, which has led me to concidering making a PEC curve. But everything is so bad overall that I think I should solve that first, before I try adding PEC into the equation. I just don't know what I am doing wrong. Hopefully, one day, I'll get my mount to a performance level similiar to what the rest of ya'll seem to have.
Does this all work with an "old" NEQ-6 Pro? I'm asking because my EQMOD window does not have these PPEC options in the "Development Testing Area" on the right.
At the top of the comments I explain that the HEQ5 works differently but Auto pec can be employed to run your Periodic error corrections. The Neq6 and the older EQ6 Pro are the same as its only the EQ6 R Pro that has a worm encoder that allows for the PPEC to be saved into the motor controllers
@@Astrobloke Oh sorry, didn't see this. Well, last night I ran nine cycles but the curve looks quite horrible. Where you have one quite nice sine curve (like 1 Hz, basically), mine has five of them. Zero-Crossing of those also is not in the middle at all. PECPrep shows a Peak PE+/- of 23.23 and -18.43 arcsecs. The nine curves are not congruent. I guess my mount is not in a very good shape. But maybe this also explains why I can't get below 1" total in PHD2.
Hey! So struggling a bit with the results. I've recorded the pec to the motor boards but guiding as gone from a .4 average to .8 Is there a way to remove the recording or re record it? Currently I do not have the pec engaged in eqmod, when I press play the guiding goes crazy. Thanks in advance!
Hi Steve, Firstly make sure you do not have enable PPEC on and autopec running at the same time. If you untick PPEC and the light is not flashing on your mount the PEC is not being applied and so its back to its pre state without any corrections. You can record a new PEC anytime and upload which will replace whatever is there. If via handset you select factory reset it will delete everything that you have done so far and you can always roll back to how it was when you started. Strange that it would throw it off by so much, how large a correction did you set? under pec set up make sure gain is set to x1 and untick apply autopec if loading up to motors. One last thing is sometimes guiding can be quite variable depending on the seeing so check to make sure its not this also playing a part in your higher RMS error.
@@Astrobloke Thanks Gleen for the quick response! You've given me lots to check here. I'll go back through your durection and let you know how it turns out. I am currently using my newt which has always been a challenge to balance in the dec, but currently at an error of .7 I'm loosing 1 out of 4 subs to a big spike in the dec since recording the pec to the motors. Ra has been running around .5
@@enteringintospace4685 sorry there were so many points but it can be a few reasons. The PEC is only a correction for the RA and the DEC error it will not help with. My CT10 is not easy to balance, its that 3rd axis thats the tricky one. Also PA being spot on will help with that also. Wish you luck, let me know how you get on, clear skies
Glen i have a HEQ5 pro can this be done the same as i cannot see record ppec and enable ppec on the right hand window .i have done the part up to this .
Unfortunately the HEQ5 does not have a worm encoder so the PEC curve cannot be saved to the motors. You can however make sure auto pec is ticked and the PEC curve will be applied everytime as long as you park the mount before you power off after each use.
I'm recording PPEC and it goes thru the cycles over and over. Will it stop recording at some point or do I have to stop it ?? I have an EQ6-r pro. Great video, Monty
Once the curve at the top is there that means the curve has been recorded. You can either then use that via autopec or transfer it as a ppec (permanent pec) to the mount. Or record another
I need to look into that. It may be that they can be put into pecprep to prepare a smooth curve. But it may be it just reports differently in different positions. I will let you know what I can find out
Hi Glenn, thanks for this great video. Yesterday I successfully made the first PEC-trainig ever on my EQ6. But for some reasons the "developer testing area" is empty. So I can´t record or enable the PPEC. Do you have an idea what I have to do to get this feature? Best regards Guido
have you got the latest version of EQMOD running? I am not sure why its not there as I have never not seen it on mine. Your PEC training will still run under autopec so you won't not have it. May need to download eqmod again
I'd have to check but not too bad. My biggest issue is the Dec line drifts from the Ra line by a substantial amount over time. Still get round stars but would like to know what's up!
Hi David, so sorry for not replying sooner. RUclips sometimes doesn’t show some messages and then they pop up. The PEC cannot be saved to the motors on the HEQ5. Just click the spanner again on the PEC tab and make sure the autopec box is checked. This will then re apply the PEC each session. Just make sure you always park the mount before turning off. Doesn’t matter if you undo clutches and move mount but if you power off before parking you need to record a new pec as when you restart the worm will have changed position on the worm gear
@@Astrobloke Thanks, clear skies and keep them coming! how do you feel about doing Zoom talks? my society (sunderland astro) has one every third Sunday and we are always looking for speakers...
@@dettie1948 Hi David and thank you for your kind comments. I have not done one before. What kind of thing would your society like me to talk about? I can happily talk about my experiences and how I got into Astrophotography but I am no Brian Cox lol
@@Astrobloke Just lately we have had requests for more "basic" presentations (the society is heavily into imaging and tends to forget those members who do the "visual" thing), so basic set-up, polar alignment, caring for your scope etc. are good while the experienced members love the "plate solving", PHD and APT stuff you do so well...
@@dettie1948 if you think the members would be interested in speaking with someone like myself I would be more than happy to join in. I can share my early experiences and how I have progressed to where i am today. Would it be a 2 way thing where they would ask me questions. I would like that as then I could talk more specifically to what they want to know, As long as I know the answer that is lol.
Hi yes. Through the handset you can factory reset the mount. Or you can just make sure PEC is not running. Record a new curve and then save that and it will replace whats there
@@Astrobloke Thanks Glenn have no idea what went wrong, pre peck my Eq6 R was around 0.8 after shot up to 1.7 had a panic attack thought I'd ###### it up...
@@AndrewThomas73 none of that is permanent so no danger of messing your mount up. After a pec i would do a new guide assist and then a new calibration. Not essential but good practise
You need to be guiding. I would recommend a guide assist after PEC training has finished and I can’t see that it would matter if you did it before or not
@@Astrobloke had one more question? I notice both of you all have the same mount but joes mount is on speed rate x.50 and yours I think is x.20…. Why is that and what would be better I also have the same mount thanks again
@@llamarvasquez1803 Very observant of you and I am not sure why mine was at x.20. After the video I changed it back to x.50 and most recommend that setting.
You can just turn off PPEC in eqmod or record a new curve. If you have saved to the motors then a factory reset via the handset would put everything back to start
@@Astrobloke thanks Glen. I ran the PEC last night and 2nite it's been doing naked handstands with the occasional half twist. I'll let it ran all night and see if it settles down, cause as we know....gently gently and don't rush or panic with all things Astro. 🔭
@@Chris_NGC6188Arahi mate and yes gently gently indeed. Just to check make sure you have run a fresh calibration after and if you can also a guide assist of at least 8mins (480sec) Slew as far south as you can and ideally have the RA axis horizontal so parallel with the ground and the Dec reading zero on its co ordinates. (That will be dependent on your view and location) I get as close as I can as buildings stop me at home. From this position run your calibration for best results
Does it matter if dithering is on both when recording the PEC curve and then when uploading it to the mount? My curve is not a perfect smooth sine wave. There are a couple of sharp "snags". Is this normal?
No you can record with dithering on and imaging. Not all curves are smooth in fact many are not. You can record a few and then make a smooth curve by averaging them out in pecprep. I am going to release a video on doing this soon.
@@Astrobloke thanks. I'm not sure I'm seeing a massive improvement after applying PEC but it is a bit better. maybe I should run the guiding assistant again. It sits between 0.60" and 0.80" with my SCT 1477 focal length, OAG, Lodestar2
@@nicholasmichael9452 I would run a new guide assistant. What is your image scale? You want your guiding the best you can get it but for round stars you want to be under the image scale. My guiding is off tonight being 0.9 - 1.2 but the seeing is poor. My image scale is 1.5 so the subs still look good.
@@Astrobloke for my imaging camera the pixel scale is 0.63"/pixel. Is this scale you mean or the guidescope pixel scale (the guidescope pixel scale is 1.19"/pixel)? I reran the guiding assistant and it's around 0.50" but clouds have started moving in.
@@nicholasmichael9452 that’s better. Sometimes if seeing is bad, high clouds, humidity etc there is not much you can do. After auto focus my HFR was >4 so my guiding was always going to struggle. A good night where I am I get 2 HFR and then my guiding is 0.5
5 is a good number but I think you can run a minimum of 2 and a max of 9. This can be done while imaging so I run the max 9 cycles as the mount is working all night anyways (as long as it stays clear)
@@Astrobloke great! Is it fine to guide towards south? Since the mount is in the most weakest point of tracking in that direction. And i be wanted to say many thanks for this video such a great content:)
@@dreamisreallygood6276 absolutely. I did my PEC training while imaging The Whirlpool galaxy so whatever you are fixed on is fine. Make sure the guiding is settled and its also ok to leave dithering on as it accounts for that
Do you suppose the PEC capturing shouldn't look like the trajectory of a ball bouncing on the floor rolling away from you? Mine never goes below the middle line. It's not a Sine curve. I've always thought my mount has issues. It's the famous EQ6R Pro, but now even my correcting PEC window looks like a mountain chain from seen from the side.
On my HEQ5 the pec curve looks like you describe with the ball bouncing away. On my eq6 r pro it is a sine curve but I know others where it is not. I think what is important is what are your guiding numbers like (total rms error)
@@Astrobloke oh ok. Thanks. Before Pec sometimes the rms is around 0.55 to 0.69. But it can get to 0.75 to 1.02. I recorded a pec but I didn't have time to see what changed in guiding. I'll try it next time.
@@Thunder_Dome45 0.55-0.69 is very good. See what difference the Pec does and let me know. Remember to tick autopec and make sure you park the mount before you turn off and then it will always auto load and be there. In EQ mod what is your guide rate at? also let me know your PHD2 settings and I'll see if anything stands out that could be imptoved
3 years down the track and your videos are still being watched and helping, many thanks for taking the time to make the videos you that you do. so far you have got me out of some sticky situations where i was at my wits end. i'm only just getting into guiding and to be honest it is a dismal attempt lol. im hoping for some clear evening in the next few weeks to put all your suggestion into practice so fingers crossed
many thanks streets astro
Thank you Graham I really appreciate your kind words. It was my intention to help as much as possible when I made the videos and its so nice to hear from people they have helped.
Please feel free to message me or email at www.Astrobloke@outlook.com if you get any issues you cannot work out, happy to help. Good luck and clear skies
Credit where Credit is due 👍 quick up date managed a quick dash hour last night with your tips I've got the guiding down from a dismal 4.29 total error to 0.6 / 0.8 ish total error. One quick 5 minute image totally blown away with the amount of extra stars the sharpness of them and the general sharpness of the whole image. Still got the pec training to do on the next clear night. 👍 many thanks again.
Thanks for the, much needed, tutorial on how to turn on PEC. If you have never done this before and haven't got a clue (like me) this tutorial is a life saver. Many thanks guy’s.
Really glad it was helpful for you. Thank you for taking the time to comment. Please let me know how you get on and what improvements you get. Clear skies
I just got an eq6-r and was trying to find a tutorial on how to do PEC training. this was spot on. Thank you!
Excellent, the reason we made it. I hope it helps. Its a great mount
Glenn, great how to video on generating and saving the PPEC curve for the EQ6R-Pro mount. I have tried to figure this out from time to time and didn't know about the PEC graph screen in EQMOD. The first clear night, I'll be working on getting my PPEC setup on my mount. Many thanks for taking the time to put it together and publishing it on RUclips. :-)
Hi Steven and thank you for taking the time to comment. Any problems let me know and best of luck
Great video Glenn! I hope everyone who wasn't using it before at least tries PEC now and hopefully gets some good results.
Yes indeed. Every little helps
Thanks guys! I did try it the other night but seemed to make my guiding worse. I am usually at .8 and with PEC it went up over 1..why would this be?
This was a superb explanation. Thanks for sharing..will be trying it out on my next session
Hi Steve and thanks. Any questions just message me.
Great tutorial! EQ6 R Pro now guiding below 0.5 after PEC training! !
That's brilliant. Really glad it helped
Thanks to this vid I understand how PAC works. Now only a clear sky in order to do it :)
Thanks Martin. Sorry about the clouds, haven’t worked out how to fix them yet lol
Thank you, Glenn (and Joe). I will employ these tips into my rigs with hopes of better guiding.
Best of lick Pat. Any probs just let me know
Thanks will put this information to good use as soon as I get a clear night.
Good luck.
Excellent video. This something I hadn’t bothered with before as I assumed that PHD2 was sufficient and the two would be working against each other. Next clear night I’ll be recording a PEC curve and see if it helps....thanks again🤪
Hi Steve. Yes the pec will take care of the errors caused by tiny imperfections that are in your worm drive. So leaving PHD2 to just correct any other errors so should improve things for you. Joe's redid his PA and ran a new guide assistant the other night and his guiding was between 0.4 and 0.6 so a nice improvement for him.
More of this please!
Thank you. Hoping to follow up with PECPrep video
Thanks SO much for this! I’ve been wanting to know how to do PEC for a while. I always thought you had to record a PEC curve with guiding off (so you’d waste imaging time), so it’s great to know you can do it while actually imaging. I also didn’t know you could record the curve in EQMOD. I thought you had to buy software like Pempro! Outstanding!! Subscribed 😊
Hi Stuart. You have to be guiding to record PEC and also leave dithering on as its pauses recording while dithering. Yes it does mean you can image while doing this. EQMOD does a great job and has a facility to build a smooth averaged PEC curve (PECPREP). This was quite involved and the reason I used PEMPRO to update my PEC curves as that program automatically builds a smooth curve for you (But its at a cost and not free)
Good luck and if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Clear skies
@@Astrobloke Thanks. I've now got Pecprep and I've loaded in my PHD2 guide logs for it to analyse. I think this is another way to get a PEC curve right?
@@redabdab yes it is.
Thanks for the video - very helpful. I noticed that you made adjustments to PHD parameters whilst the PEC was recording - just wondered whether this could negatively affect the PEC curve?
Hi and thank you. The PEC is only effected by any movements outside of the guiding so does not influence the curve being recorded. Hope this helps and good luck.
Hi Glenn
That was more interesting than I thought! I watched right to the end😀 very informative mate, when my mount gets here, I’ll give that a go! Cheers
Thanks Simon. Any help you need give me a shout
Brilliant video ! Very clear instructions and for sure I'm going to try all of these adjustments. Well done guys
Thank you. Good luck.
Hi Glenn, thank you for this video! The only thing that I didn't get from the video at first was that I actually need clear skies and PHD2 up and running in order to recorde the PEC curve. By reading the comments I finally found that information. I was trying to record my PEC curves during the daytime and they were "amazing" :D Only 0.01arcsec when analysing the data with PecPrep ... to good to be true. So now I have to wait for CS again. Thanks ;)
Hi and sorry that was not clear in the video. the measurement is the harmonics of the worm drive while tracking and guiding. Hope you get clear skies soon and can get it done. I did mine while also imaging so at least you don't lose the clear night
@@Astrobloke no worries. I was probably just hoping that it can be done also during daytime ;) Thanks a lot for your answer!
Absolutely brilliant. Really well done for doing this guys
Many thanks
Great video, thank you! I do have a question about the algorithms in PHD2. Does it matter which ones you use? Is it best to use Predictive PEC for RA and Resist Switch for Dec? I was reading on the PHD2 site that Lowpass2 is also very good. Do you have any insight on these? Do any of them conflict with the EQMOD PEC? Thanks!
That intro was dope.
Lol thank you. It was a bit of work but fun to do.
Hi Glen, brilliant tutorial! I’ve recently started looking at how to improve my guiding and this will help me chip away at it. Just finished my first year with Astrophotography, and my rms has always been rubbish with my Rowan mod HEQ5 from FLO. Best I can achieve is 3” and normally 5” or more ☹️. I’m wide field with a WO GT81, 0.8 reducer so 378mm FL, and full frame asi6200mm. My pictures however are quite good so it hasn’t bothered me too much, but the rms is starting to bug me. The corrections are quite equal for DEC and RA so not sure what’s going on. Thinking of getting an EQ6 and sending the HEQ5 back for FLO to look at whilst within warranty (can’t live without a mount 😂) If I start stripping it down it will void the warranty. Again, brilliant video, very useful! Kevan
Hi Kevan and thank you. I bought a used HEQ5 and i know I stripped mine down but that guiding does not seem right. Even without tuning you should be 1” or just either side of that. Try out the autopec as that can sometimes reveal if you have a mechanical issue. I would speak to FLO especially if still under warranty
Have you tried to do a Calibration when you first start up? I think its a Shift+Click on the Guide button. Your issues sound familiar and doing that and then using Guide Assistance changed my numbers dramatically.
@@jameslyons3306 Hi James, thanks for the suggestion. I only calibrate in PHD2 ( within Asiair pro) occasionally because it takes a while to complete and wasn’t aware it needed recalibrating every session. However, I will try that going forward. I’ll try anything for better guiding 😂. Glen suggested autopec but I do not have a Windows laptop as I’m all Apple Mac. I started Astrophotography with my AsiAir Pro and for me it helped calm that massive learning curve starting out. Yesterday I was just about to order an EQ6-R Pro (start building for a bigger OTA) use that and send my HEQ5 back to be checked. My plan would be to have two rigs making maximum use of our rare clear skies. Would be a shame to invest in a laptop just to use occasionally to diagnose anomalies, but maybe that comes with this expensive hobby. I’ll certainly try calibration every session to see what happens and report back. Might be a while with our weather. Thanks, Kevan
Great video. Recently acquired a new to me AZ-EQ5 and after some worm bearing replacement and re-greasing I am running around .75 RMS. Running PEC training now. Hoping to get the RMS down. Fingers crossed zero subs dropped. :-)
Hi B, thanks for commenting. You should be able to get the numbers lower and PEC training may be the key, please let me know how you get on and if I can help at all.
Hi brilliant tutorial glen im hoping to try this soon as get decent clear skies, one thing some of the video the screen was a bit blurred to see it properly ,otherwise spot on thank you.
Hi and thanks for the comments. Sorry about that. A lot of the footage was not planned but just a screencapture of a session I was doing with Joe as a capture video. But we decided the information was something a lot of people wanted to see. If I can confirm anything thats not clear please let me know.
Thank you very much, this video is very informative! Going to give it a good try. May have to get a new camera and guidescope
Thank you Kenneth and I am glad it was helpful. Good luck and clear skies
Just a Question from my side: While you capturing the PEC Curve, was the Backslash Compensation
activated in PHD2? Thanks for your comment, and also a big thx for the video., it´s awesome. Greetings
Hi and thank you for watching and commenting, I am glad the video was helpful. I personally record the PEC with backlash comp off. Just basic guiding and once done I then run guide assist with the PEC active and finish with a fresh calibration. Clear skies
Hi Glenn, another great video, informative and I learned a lot! Thanks
Thank you. This can make quite a difference to your guiding
@@Astrobloke You say this procedure can be done during daytime, for example in the garage. Is it necessary to have all equpment (scope, camera, counterweights, etc.) mounted while doing this?
@@arnsteindale5531 if you are just transferring the pec from eqmod to the mount you don’t need it loaded up
Thanks Glenn, needed this!
You are welcome
Great video. Very informative and straight forward
Thanks Richard. Any probs with it let me know
Fabulous tutorial, thanks! One question. If I record the PEC training using PHD into my EQ6 with that stick with the mount when I image with a ZWO ASIAIR? I don't normally use PHD to image. Thanks again!
Hi John. I unfortunately have never used Asiair and so not 100% on how PEC works with it. With EQmod it records the periodic error thats detected while guiding with PHD2. I have friends with Asiair and will make a point to see exactly how that works and put together a workflow
In the mount manual, I only saw that PEC was available via the handset. Having this function in EQMOD and your step by step instructions in this video, how to make it permenant, showing the improvements after the change is a godsend. Thank you for the excellent explanation! PS I know that feeling about seeing conditions, I'm living near the coast in Wales :)
I am very happy that you found this helpful. Yes being 24m from sea level and by the coast has its challenges. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. Clear skies
@@Astrobloke Hey, I've come back to give you an update. After introducing PEC to my mount, my guiding has dramatically improved. I used to guide between 1.0" and 1.5" (total) but for the past few nights it's been hovering between 0.4" and 0.7" (total). Amazing!
@@IcedReaver hi and thank you for letting me know how you got on. Thats an excellent improvement and really happy for you. Clear skies
Well done, guys - it helped so much - thx!
One question: can I check the motors? I have doubt that they work properly in my second hand HEQ5 - is there something to check on the quality of the motors. I mean, maybe they had a hard time before I bought the mount? Maybe the mount crashed into the tripod or so - I have really a hard time to make PHD2 work most of the time. And this ist why I want to check the second hand gear as good as possible. Thanks in advance for any ideas and answers. Cheers from Germany.
Hi Pat and thank you for the comment. How do the motors sound when it slews? can you explain more on the PHD2 problems (is it just bad guiding or not working at all)
@@Astrobloke Thx for the fast response. The motors sounds ok actually. But PHD2 only runs properly in 25% of my sessions. The PHD2 calibration fails most of the times and PHD gives Feedbacks like „RA/DA axis angles are questionable and guiding may be impared“ and that the angle between DA/RA should be around 90 degrees and the orthogonal failure is usually smaller 10 degree - the orthogonal failure in my mount was 17 degrees. I have the feeling that there is a mechanical problem in the worm gear or/and motors. Should I strip the mount down and take a look on the gear - will I see inaccuracies or damages? Thank you very much in advance. Cheers, Pat
Have you done the HEQ5 tutorial yet? This was superb and I will test tonight but I have an HEQ5 Pro and would like to see your work around. Cheers.
Hi Robert. I did put a follow up note above. Basically with the HEQ5 you record autopec as shown in the video. That mount does not have a sensor on the wormdrive so cannot be saved as a ppec. But click the spanner symbol below where the pec curve is recorded and tick the autopec box. This will load this pec everytime you connect to your mount. The only thing you need to ensure is that you park your mount before switching off or you will have to record a new pec curve as it will lose sync with the wormdrive
Really excellent video Glenn. I live by the coast too near Eastbourne so get your comments on humidity. Should I turn off Dithering while recording a PEC curve. I often get quite big swings in the guiding while a dither happens and the guiding doesn't always quite catch up before the next exposure starts. Will this affect the PEC curve accuracy. Many thanks, Alan
Hi Alan and thank you. You can leave dithering on as the guiding and pec is paused while going through the dithering routine. I tend to leave it on as I record a PEC while imaging. It would be fine however if you want to turn it off but will not make much difference. The recording is looking for regular errors that are not linked to guiding but the mechanical imperfections of your worm drive and gears. Its just needs to be guiding to be able to record the PEC
@@Astrobloke Hi again Glenn. I completed the PEC training on my EQ3 Pro mount and just for a laugh I tried a 20 minute sub and it worked perfectly and I was amazed so thanks to you for that. I switched to a different wider field scope, redid the PHD2 calibration and got problems. So 2 questions for you. How near to meridian and celestial equator do I need to be to do a PHD2 calibration ? Also, is it better or is it wrong to do a PHD2 calibration on the target that I intend to image? Cheers
@@alantidey2995 for an accurate and solid calibration you need the star to move as much as possible hence as close to the equator as possible. I aim to slew both the RA and DEC to zero co ordinates. On the DEC zero is not always possible and depends on your view. I have a restricted south view so get the DEC as close to zero as possible
Thanks Glenn, on your AZGTi what do you set PHD2 at for that mount as I have that same mount and would like to know what your setting are in PHD2 PLEASE, I understand that my AZGTi in not the same as your but I would like to try your setting and see if it's better than the default PHD2 that I am using, Sad to say I don't think the AZGTi has PEC?? LOVE YOUR CHANNEL and you always get a thumbs up from me!!!
On RA aggr is set at 65 and min mo 20. Dec Aggr 100 min mo 28. run multi star guiding 1.5 - 2 secs. you could try these but best you run a guide assistant and apply those settings. No pec training unfortunately
Thanks for the video. My guiding is really bad...+/-2" so looking for some useful tips. A question I have is....what if you've done the PEC on EQMOD and then use an ASIAIR Plus? Will the mount still do the corrections internally, or do you have to run EQMOD every time?
Its a good question and something you will have to test. Once the PEC is recorded to the mounts motors when active the light on the mount repeatedly flashes 3 times. So get it working and if you start up ASIAIR and the mount is still flashing I would say it was active. You may be able to also turn it on with the handset, just not sure 100%
Can you dither when you are PEC training?
I'm trying this tonight ... 👍👍👍
Hi there. Yes you can as guiding is paused while dithering. I always record a PEC while imaging and dithering. Good luck and clear skies
@@Astrobloke Thanks for making and sharing your video. I tried it tonight and my auto-guiding went from 0.75-0.85 to 0.45-0.55 once the PEC training turned on after 9 worm gear cycles. I have a EQ6-R Pro and my scope is a William Optics 120 (780mm focal length). My PEC curve is not a nice sine wave like you have ...
@@2badger2 hi. Great news that it improved guiding so much. Don’t worry about the sine wave shape as what is really important is the correction to the periodic error. Every PEC curve is different. You can use pecprep to smooth it out but its quite a complicated process and won’t improve the guiding any further.
Hi Glenn, great video. I take it that dithering must remain off while recording the PEC?
Actually not at all. Dithering will not stop the pec being recorded its just slewing so meridian flip must be avoided
@@Astrobloke Thanks that's good to know. The math must be smarter than I imagined. So recording the PEC should have no impact on my imaging session at all. Thanks Glenn
Thanks for great video. Can the PEC training be done without PHD guiding , basically day time ?
Hi, unfortunately no it has to be under guiding conditions for it to work. If you have a curve recorded you can do the saving from EQmod to your mount at anytime so that bit can be in the day
I’ve heard about PEC, but this was a great info and how to video. So I have done the Rowan Belt mod to my HEQ5 mount, will it still benefit from PEC training?
Good mod. The eq6 R Pro comes belt driven. It smooths out the mount and removes most of the backlash. The PEC however is the errors in the worm drive that your mount still has so this will still benefit you.
Great video, thanks. I have just recorded a PEC curve for my HEQ5, however it did not look anything like your nice sine curve though?? However, although my Eqmod version is the same V2.00q, I did not get the same options in the Development Training Area? All I have are the two top options Feature Set and Polar Scope but I do not have Record PPEC , Enable PPEC or the two snap Ports. Are you able to advise why I do not get these options, please?
Someone else with an HEQ5 has also found this, I am researching why that’s not there. For now you have pec working via auto pec, just make sure you park the Mount before you power down and it will start up automatically every time. I will look into why HEQ5 seems different and how PPEC can be done
@@Astrobloke I was wondering if you had a chance to look into the HEQ5 version of PPEC, like @julian489289, I am on the HEQ5 and I too, do not have "Record/Enable PPEC" under Development Training Area. My version is also V2.00q. Thank you! Appreciate the help :)
@@Astrobloke I may have found a solution... a quick research suggest HEQ5 does NOT have permanent PEC available...
@@nocturneastro2539 yes The HEQ5 is different. I have added an update to the comments and plan a further video
@@Astrobloke Great video. I also have a HEQ5 and in the development area, PEC is not there. Recognize that this will not be a problem as when I park PEC will be saved. With autopec on, I should be good to go for the next imaging system.
Great video! Question, though. The "Record PPEC" button that you show in the right-most panel of EQASCOM is not present on mine. I have installed the latest version of EQASCOM, but all I see in that panel is the "Polar Scope LED" Slider. I am using an HEQ5 (Sirius) mount and I can record the PEC with PHD2 running, apply it to guiding, etc.....but I don't ahve the button to "transfer" it to the mount. Any ideas?
Hi Jeff. That feature is not available for the HEQ5 as it does not have a position encoder on the RA wormdrive. You can still record a pec curve and apply it the same just not able to save to the mount. So record the curve and tick the spanner in the recording area and make sure autopec box is checked, then whenever you reconnect that PEC curve will be applied. Just make sure you always park the scope before powering down. If you don’t it will lose the worm position and you will have to record a new curve. As long as its in its parked position before you next power up it will carry on with the sam PEC. Releasing the clutches and moving the scope is ok as this does not
Move the worm. Hope that all makes sense.
@@Astrobloke Thanks! I was hoping to be able to transfer to the mount, as I have already failed to park it (4am, tired, get forgetful) and lost the PEC. I'll have to write it in bold caps on my checklist....or time to get a new mount :-).
The other day I recorded a pec for my NEQ6 mount while guiding with PHD2 and running EQMOD. As clouds was passing by during the session, I am sceptical to the validity of the curve.
If I record a new, will it overwrite the old? Can’t find where the curve is stored.
And what happens when you loosen the dec/ra clutch to balance, wouldn’t the pec and mount be out of sync?
I also now want to mount the guide cam paralelle to the main cam instead hanging off the side of the scope for better balance. To do this I have to rotate the dec axis 90 degrees. I guess this will surely invalidate the pec...?
Thanks!
Hi. If you record a new PEC curve it will replace what you currently have in place. When you release the clutches the gear turns and the worm drive does not move but moves with the axis as you turn in. This means the Pec is fine and not lost as the worm drive starts from the same position on the gear as when you stopped or turned off your mount.
A small update guys. The HEQ5 does not have a
Sensor on the worm like the EQ6. EQMOD will not show PPEC. You can still record and autopec and this will automatically apply whenever you use the mount. Make sure you park your mount after use and turning off. Moving the mount by releasing the clutches is fine as this does not disturb the worm position. I am sorting some more details on this subject and will release a video shortly on how to use pecprep.
Hello Glenn, I have an EQ6R as well and want to train my PEC, but I use the ASIAir Pro for all of my astroimaging. Once the PEC is loaded into the motor controllers on the mount, I am curious if the PEC will work in the background while using the ASIAIR app?
@@MayfieldCreekObservatory i am not 100% sure on this as I do not use the ASIAIR but will see what I can find out and let you know
@@Astrobloke Glenn thanks so much. Your channel is so informative. I appreciate all you do and I know everyone else does as well. I love the ASIAir Pro, but I believe I am going to start branching out and using some other software to capture as well since there are some great tools and functions I am missing out on. Thanks again!
@@MayfieldCreekObservatory you're welcome and thanks. I am not finding a direct answer to this but I read that you can set the ASIAIR to run in EQMOD mode is that correct? I turn on the PPEC for my EQ6 in EQMOD and wondered if it was saved in the mounts worm encoder, if so maybe you could do the same via the ASIAIR?
@@Astrobloke Thanks Glenn. I will certainly give it a shot and see what happens. I thank you again so much.
Magnificent! My error graph looks nothing like the one in this video. It has so many different peaks and dips, vs his looks like a sine wave. It works regardless. So happy for this. Question, I have EQMOD V 2.00u, and I dont have that record function on the right where you can record it to your motors permanently. Was it moved?
What mount are you using? If its the HEQ5 it only has the autopec and won't have the PPEC function as the worm doesn't have a worm encoder to save to
This is real useful information Glenn, I haven't looked at PEC yet but gonna try this one out. Just so I'm sure I can run the PEC routine whilst imaging? Nice clear video Cheers 👍
Yes. I ran the autopec on Joes mount while imaging the Christmas Tree cluster and cone Nebula
Hi. Great video!
I believe you mentioned in the video that you can run a PEC training during the day. I thought I also heard/read that PHD2 needs to be running in order to do a PEC training. Can I train during the day?
Thanks.
Hi Michael. You do need to be guiding to train the PEC. The daytime bit is only the last part of the process of transferring the recorded PEC curve to the actual mount motors.. everything else needs to be with stars and while guiding. Hope this helps
@@Astrobloke Yes, that helps. Thanks for the quick reply.
Thanks helpful video. So PEC recording is to be done whilst guiding? Does it matter if you change guiding settings whilst you are recording the PEC?
Hi Nicholas. I don't think that would be a problem and it didn't cause me any issues. Just do not slew or have a meridian flip happen while recording the curve
Sorry for the question as it should be assumed I think but, you started all this AFTER doing the initial Calibration at the start of PHD2 guiding? Yes? Informative vid and I plan to implement ASAP, THANKS!
Hi James. Yes this was Joes initial set up which had the calibration already done and he had even ran a guide assistant previously but only the short 2 mins one.
Hei Glen! Sorry for bothring you agin. Had some semi-clear skies yesterday and tried to record a PEC curve. I wanted to analyse the data using PECPrep. Unfortunately EQMOD seems to "average" the data from the 9 worm cycles and generates one output curve. So analysing this curve in PECPrep does not make a lot of sence. I also tried to load a PHD2 logfile, but it failed. Have you tried to work with PECPrep? Are there other ways to record a PEC curve outside of EQMOD? Thanks a lot!
Hi there. I recently discuss this on my most recent video The EQ8 Update.
I have tried to use Pecprep and found it very confusing and just didn't feel comfortable with any results I got. I have recently purchased a program called PEMPRO which is a far superior program for PEC. Its a cost unfortunately but I think does a much better job. It does not use PHD2 but guides itself while recording your periodic errors and then analysis and builds a smoothed curve automatically for you which then can just be loaded straight into EQMOD. From there you can record that to your mount.
I am working on a video showing all this and hope to release soon.
Hei@@Astrobloke ! Thanks a lot. Sound great. I'll check if PEMPRO is an option for me as well. Looking forward to your next video! Cheers ;)
Really useful video. Thank you. I’m in the process of building a small observatory with a pier for my AZEQ6GT. I usually get around 0.7 with my 65mm refractor and about 0.9 with the 105mm refractor. Hoping this will get me down in the 0.5 or less as I’ll have better PA too. I also have the HEQ5pro mount which I’ll use on its tripod for mobile imaging. Can EQmod store more than one autopec? Maybe I’d need to make the permanent pec active when using the AZEQ6GT then use autopec for the other one? Would be nice to have it for both mounts. Thanks again for a very informative and helpful video. Clear skies.
Hi John. Thank you for the kind comments. I know eqmod can save specific curves so you could load one for the autopec on the Heq5. if you transfer the other pec curve into your eq6 mount that will be saved there. I run my heq5 off a laptop so have a separate eqmod for that. I have a had a spell of clear nights lately and the EQ6 has been at 0.4 so I know you can get yours down there, the pier will help. I just hyper tuned my Heq5 and put a video up of it if you haven't seen it. Made a huge difference and now guiding 0.3 - 0.6. I am planning to do the same for the EQ6 now.. Good luck with your project.
@@Astrobloke I watched the HEQ5pro video and May well do the bearings on mine. I know you said they ship internationally but I’ll need to check things as since Brexit getting anything to or from the UK is a nightmare. I had to get all sorts of paperwork just to send my Lodestar x2 back for a repair! I’ll look into it though and see what’s needed re VAT and duties etc. Really pleased to have found your channel. I’ll be checking out more videos from you. 👍
I have been looking for this quite a while, this is great really! Thank you both of you for making this.
Just wondering a question, we need to train the PEC again, when we unmount the scope and mount it the next day, right ?
You are welcome. No once the pec is saved its there. It only records and corrects the periodic errors in the wormdrive so no need rerun if you tear down.
@@Astrobloke thanks a lot for the quick reply! 🥰Did you ever have a chance to compare EQMod’s PPEC and PHD2 ‘s Predictive PEC ?
.. or would you recommend to use both ? 🤔
@@eerkunt i don’t use both together. When I have made comparisons in the past I have found the mounts PPEC to be the better if the two. But things progress so you never know. Like the multistar guiding, things are always improving
@@Astrobloke thanks a lot again! You’re right, let me give both a try
Hi great video. I have a CGX and two scopes I use on it. A 8 inch SCT, and a 275mm Refractor. Quite a weight difference but I use the same guide scope for each. Do I need to make different PEC curves for each configuration?
Very informative video. Learned alot!
Do you know if the EQ6 PRO (Or NEQ6) have PPEC?
I know the eq6 r pro has and I believe it’s only the HEQ5 that only has autopec and the curve cannot be stored in the Mount but only on eqmod
@@Astrobloke thanks, i thought so too.
You say that mount have to be parked after for it to work. How about slewing the motors when not in EQMOD? And how about for example unclutching - change position of the scope and "re"-clutching again? Will that also mess up the PEC curve youre using?
@@Hegegutt slewing is fine as long as after you park the Mount before switching off. This is only with auto pec. With PPEC it doesn’t matter as the information is stored in the mounts motors . Releasing the clutches is ok too as you don’t move the worm drives when doing this
Yep ,Great video tutorial !!!
Thank you Rigobert
Hi Glenn, thanks for your useful video!
I was wondering, do I need to do anything in particular while eqmod is recording the periodic error?
Should I run phd2 or it is going to disturb the process somehow?
If not, can the procedure be done in daytime?
Cheers
Andrea
Hi Andrea. It would be so cool if you could do this in the day but unfortunately you need to be guiding to measure the Periodic errors. You definitely need to be running PHD2 and then record the PEC. The only thing you can do at any time is the transfer or recording of the PPEC from EQMOD to the mounts motors.
Hi again Glenn. I have another question for you. If you go to the EQMOD's left panel screen (where the wrench button is located that you click on to set the gain), there are save and load buttons to the left of the wrench button. What are those for? My EQ6 Pro does not allow me to save PEC training to the mount itself so I was wondering if these buttons would be useful to me for saving the training. Thanks.
Hi Michael. You have to just make sure you tick autopec and make sure if turning off the mount you park it first. If you click save it will save your curve so you can reload it should it disappear.
@@Astrobloke Thanks again. How to try PEC training tonight.
@@michaelschefter4410 hope it went well for you
Quick question: Since you are recording pec during imaging, I guess you are also dithering? Recording pec does not matter if dithering or not?
Thanks for very informative and useful videos!
Hi and thanks for watching. You can dither as normal as the mount stops guiding to do this and the PEC recording also pauses
Hi, and thanks for a informative video! I am not in to guiding yet as I try to keep my setup as simple as possible. But I realize I have probably reach my limit of 'no guiding' imaging... I have a NEQ6 mount from Sky Watcher. Independent of exposure time, from say 75 sec up to 240 sec unguided, consistent across the image, and pretty much consistent over various imaging sessions, I get slightly egg-shaped stars when zoomed in. I polar align the old fashion way by the polar scope, and try as best as I can to be accurate. As my 'eggs' are so consistent, I am leaning towards periodic error rather than bad polar alignment.
Am I correct if I understand that guiding is required to record the periodic error, but once the curve is recorded, and stored, EQMOD will apply these corrections, even when not guiding?
With EQMOD you need to be guiding to actually record the PEC but you are correct it will then run even if not guiding.
Should I do my PEC training via EQ ASCOM without guiding with PHD2 or while guiding? Also, when I go to make my PEC permanent, I do not have the "Record PPEC" options under the "Development Testing Area" box. Do you know why I don't see this options? I am using an Orion Sirius EQ-G. Thanks!
do your PEC training while guiding. you can even do this while imaging. Just don't slew or run calibration or guide assist while PEC training. I have heard a few people say the development area is empty. I am not sure if this is due to EQMOD version or an issue with the software. it could be empty if the feature is not available for the mount being used, I am struggling to get a definitive answer to this but will add to this post when I do. You still have the Autopec feature that you can use.
A couple more silly questions.
What does the first P of PPEC stand for?
I have an EQ6R-Pro that I drag out each night. When I'm lifting it I have the clutches off and both axes move. I then put the axes in the home position by eye and lock the clutches. Would a PPEC recorded into the mount be able to work out which part of the recording should sync with where the worm is or is PPEC invalid once clutches have been released and the mount manually moved and clutches reengaged? I hope this makes sense.
The P stands for Permanent.
Unlocking the clutches will not cause any problems. When you start guiding and turn the PPEC on the mount will know when to start applying the curve once it syncs with the worm. It will do this for you
@@Astrobloke excellent. Thanks. I'll give it a go next time I'm out. Clear skies.
They say when you make the exposure in guiding longer (2seconds and longer) you ignore more pulses, resulting in better guiding. If you have a short exposure like 0.5sec or even less, you have alot of pulses, and your guiding is all over the place and way higher. True?
It really depends on your mount and other factors like seeing. I know some that guide at less than 0.5sec. I have tried but never had great results. After many nights trying exp from 0.5 -5 i always settle at 1.5 sec and for me is the sweet spot.
Does it matter where in the sky you are guiding when training the PEC? Is it better at a higher altitude, near or away from the meridian, does it matter?
I have always been guiding high in the sky as the seeing is always better. You don't want your mount struggling with its guiding while recording a PEC
The Ra and DEC rates are both set to x0.20. NINA's guide says to use at least x0.9. What are your thoughts on this and which one should be used?
I personally set mine to 0.5x
I think 0.9x is recommended by NINA but i have never had success with it that high
Is the PEC curve dependant on those rates? I.e. different rates need a different PEC curve?
@@tempusfugit6820 Thats a very good question and one I am not sure of the answer, The tracking rate stays the same so it might not be needed but I personally would record a new curve if I changed any settings like that
Is a Skywatcher EQM35 PRO able of this PEC training and keeping these settings?
This is not a mount that I have any experience with I am afraid. I believe pec training is available through the handset but would have to be done each time as that will not save the data. You could see if EQAscom and eqmod would save and apply an autopec like it does on the HEQ5.
Thanks for great video. Can the PEC be recorded during imaging with dithering on or does it make a difference?
Ok to do it while imaging and dithering
Once the curve has been sent into the mount, how do you get it going the next time you image? Which button needs to be activated to get it going again?
If you are using EQMOD open up the full app by clicking the 3arrows and on the far right you will see a box called enable PPEC. Check this box and press refresh. If you have the PEC recorded to the mounts motors the light on your mount will flash 3 times.
Great info. Thanks.
You are welcome. Thank you for the comment
I get nice guiding between 0.3 and 0.6 RMS on one side of the pier consistently then on the opposite pier I get 3-4 arc second dips in RA every 2 minutes consistently that ruins my subs. Any ideas?
Hi there. Its a hard one to call as it can be a number of things. Double check your balancing (don’t forget 3rd axis as this could be the cause).
It sounds like there is maybe an issue with the gear in one direction which could be a manufacturing fault or even a bit of dirt. Not sure how you are with mechanics but I would strip the mount and clean the worm gear and inspect it for any damage or major imperfections. Please let me know how you get on
I would have preferred you implement the pec training without adjusting the aggressiveness in phd2, just to see the true effect of pec. How would someone know if pec improved the guiding or the phd2 adjustments?
Thats what we did. If you watch it again you’ll see the PHD2 was adjusted before PEC was active. The PHD2 adjustments made a good difference to the initial guiding. After PEC was recorded and then run on Joe’s mount he saw a further improvement all be it a small one. You could also do PEC first then PHD2. Really you just don’t want to see any guiding numbers go the wrong way.
@@Astrobloke Ok....I'll watch again more carefully....thanks.
Hi Glenn,Can dithering still be used with PEC also when training pec would I be able to take images with dithering active or will I have to run training and wait a hour as we no uk weather don't play ball.
Yes i have done it with dithering on, you must however not slew or have a meridian flip while recording it
Question, does EQ mod even work for a legacy CGEM mount???
Hi Don. I am not sure of the answer to this. I will see what I can find out and let you know
My PEC-curve is not at all a smooth sinus-like curve like in this video. It's more like a roller coaster plus one quick dip down before returning to the centre line. What the fudge am I doing wrong?
It won't always be a smooth sinewave and this doesn't mean you have done it wrong. I am working on a video at the moment using a program called Pecprep that takes your data and makes a corrected smoothed PEC curve for you automatically. This can be done in EQMOD's Pecprep but is a bit more work and a lot of reading needed.
@@Astrobloke Hello again,
Back when I made the above comment, I had no idea how PEC worked or how to produce such curves. I made one crucial mistake, which now in hindsight actually is quite embarrassing... But that does not matter anymore. Now, I actually do understand how it works, mostly.
Though, the thing is that my mount seems to perform worse than every other one that I have seen. For instance, some stats from PHD2 during my latest session:
RA 0.93'' RMS error, -4.57*'' peak
DEC 0.80'' RMS error, 4.05'' peak
Total 1.22''
Both axes have lots of peaks in both directions. RA has an obvious sinusoidal shape, which has led me to concidering making a PEC curve. But everything is so bad overall that I think I should solve that first, before I try adding PEC into the equation. I just don't know what I am doing wrong. Hopefully, one day, I'll get my mount to a performance level similiar to what the rest of ya'll seem to have.
Does this all work with an "old" NEQ-6 Pro?
I'm asking because my EQMOD window does not have these PPEC options in the "Development Testing Area" on the right.
At the top of the comments I explain that the HEQ5 works differently but Auto pec can be employed to run your Periodic error corrections. The Neq6 and the older EQ6 Pro are the same as its only the EQ6 R Pro that has a worm encoder that allows for the PPEC to be saved into the motor controllers
@@Astrobloke Oh sorry, didn't see this.
Well, last night I ran nine cycles but the curve looks quite horrible. Where you have one quite nice sine curve (like 1 Hz, basically), mine has five of them. Zero-Crossing of those also is not in the middle at all. PECPrep shows a Peak PE+/- of 23.23 and -18.43 arcsecs. The nine curves are not congruent. I guess my mount is not in a very good shape. But maybe this also explains why I can't get below 1" total in PHD2.
Hey! So struggling a bit with the results. I've recorded the pec to the motor boards but guiding as gone from a .4 average to .8
Is there a way to remove the recording or re record it? Currently I do not have the pec engaged in eqmod, when I press play the guiding goes crazy. Thanks in advance!
Hi Steve, Firstly make sure you do not have enable PPEC on and autopec running at the same time. If you untick PPEC and the light is not flashing on your mount the PEC is not being applied and so its back to its pre state without any corrections. You can record a new PEC anytime and upload which will replace whatever is there. If via handset you select factory reset it will delete everything that you have done so far and you can always roll back to how it was when you started. Strange that it would throw it off by so much, how large a correction did you set? under pec set up make sure gain is set to x1 and untick apply autopec if loading up to motors. One last thing is sometimes guiding can be quite variable depending on the seeing so check to make sure its not this also playing a part in your higher RMS error.
@@Astrobloke Thanks Gleen for the quick response! You've given me lots to check here. I'll go back through your durection and let you know how it turns out. I am currently using my newt which has always been a challenge to balance in the dec, but currently at an error of .7 I'm loosing 1 out of 4 subs to a big spike in the dec since recording the pec to the motors. Ra has been running around .5
@@enteringintospace4685 sorry there were so many points but it can be a few reasons. The PEC is only a correction for the RA and the DEC error it will not help with. My CT10 is not easy to balance, its that 3rd axis thats the tricky one. Also PA being spot on will help with that also. Wish you luck, let me know how you get on, clear skies
@@Astrobloke no worries, appreciate all the info!
Glen i have a HEQ5 pro can this be done the same as i cannot see record ppec and enable ppec on the right hand window .i have done the part up to this .
Unfortunately the HEQ5 does not have a worm encoder so the PEC curve cannot be saved to the motors. You can however make sure auto pec is ticked and the PEC curve will be applied everytime as long as you park the mount before you power off after each use.
How do you get the Feature Set 0100CF on the top right box? My box is empty.
Can I ask what mount you are controlling with EQMOD please
@@AstroblokeSkyWatcher EQM-35 Pro. Sorry, just saw this
Thanks guys.
You’re welcome
I'm recording PPEC and it goes thru the cycles over and over. Will it stop recording at some point or do I have to stop it ?? I have an EQ6-r pro.
Great video,
Monty
Once the curve at the top is there that means the curve has been recorded. You can either then use that via autopec or transfer it as a ppec (permanent pec) to the mount. Or record another
Hi, I'm getting quite different curves depending on RA positions, when training ...
How many curves have you tried to record ?
@@Astrobloke I got 3 in East, West and Polaris RA positions... thx
I need to look into that. It may be that they can be put into pecprep to prepare a smooth curve. But it may be it just reports differently in different positions. I will let you know what I can find out
Very good
Thank you
Hi Glenn,
thanks for this great video. Yesterday I successfully made the first PEC-trainig ever on my EQ6. But for some reasons the "developer testing area" is empty. So I can´t record or enable the PPEC. Do you have an idea what I have to do to get this feature?
Best regards Guido
have you got the latest version of EQMOD running? I am not sure why its not there as I have never not seen it on mine. Your PEC training will still run under autopec so you won't not have it. May need to download eqmod again
@@Astrobloke Hi Glenn,
thx for your quick response. For tonight it´s a beautiful night, I´ll give a go tomorow.
CS Guido
Great video as always! But same here, latest version of EqMod and have the EQ6 Pro, does it only support Eq6 r?
I dont suppose there is any chance of this type of walkthrough for the az-gti mount? I'm having trouble getting a good guide graph
Hi Michael, I actually use an AZGTI in eq mode. Unfortunately it does not have PEC training. Can I ask what numbers you get in Total RMS
I'd have to check but not too bad. My biggest issue is the Dec line drifts from the Ra line by a substantial amount over time. Still get round stars but would like to know what's up!
@@MegaMichaeltodd The Dec on these can have quite severe backlash. I would need to see a graph if you can sort one
I have the logs if that's any use. You can see the Dec diverging. Where would I send them to?
@@MegaMichaeltodd you can email then to me at www.astrobloke.co.uk
Does the flashing apply to an HEQ5 as well when recording the PEC to the motor board?
Hi David, so sorry for not replying sooner. RUclips sometimes doesn’t show some messages and then they pop up. The PEC cannot be saved to the motors on the HEQ5. Just click the spanner again on the PEC tab and make sure the autopec box is checked. This will then re apply the PEC each session. Just make sure you always park the mount before turning off. Doesn’t matter if you undo clutches and move mount but if you power off before parking you need to record a new pec as when you restart the worm will have changed position on the worm gear
@@Astrobloke Thanks, clear skies and keep them coming! how do you feel about doing Zoom talks? my society (sunderland astro) has one every third Sunday and we are always looking for speakers...
@@dettie1948 Hi David and thank you for your kind comments. I have not done one before. What kind of thing would your society like me to talk about? I can happily talk about my experiences and how I got into Astrophotography but I am no Brian Cox lol
@@Astrobloke Just lately we have had requests for more "basic" presentations (the society is heavily into imaging and tends to forget those members who do the "visual" thing), so basic set-up, polar alignment, caring for your scope etc. are good while the experienced members love the "plate solving", PHD and APT stuff you do so well...
@@dettie1948 if you think the members would be interested in speaking with someone like myself I would be more than happy to join in. I can share my early experiences and how I have progressed to where i am today. Would it be a 2 way thing where they would ask me questions. I would like that as then I could talk more specifically to what they want to know, As long as I know the answer that is lol.
Hi Glenn, sorry to be a pain but can you delets a pec curve from the motors, something went wrong and guiding is much,much worse ??
kind regards
Hi yes. Through the handset you can factory reset the mount. Or you can just make sure PEC is not running. Record a new curve and then save that and it will replace whats there
@@Astrobloke Thanks Glenn have no idea what went wrong, pre peck my Eq6 R was around 0.8 after shot up to 1.7 had a panic attack thought I'd ###### it up...
@@AndrewThomas73 none of that is permanent so no danger of messing your mount up. After a pec i would do a new guide assist and then a new calibration. Not essential but good practise
@@markbayfield6381 Thanks Mark, that's good advice will do next clear night, maybe around Xmas time.
Thats good advice from Mark (thanks mate) i was going to say similar
Are we suppose to guide and run Guiding assistance in PhD first before running PEC?
You need to be guiding. I would recommend a guide assist after PEC training has finished and I can’t see that it would matter if you did it before or not
@@Astrobloke awesome I will try it out tonight I’ve been waiting for a video like this… thank you very much again 🔭
@@Astrobloke had one more question? I notice both of you all have the same mount but joes mount is on speed rate x.50 and yours I think is x.20…. Why is that and what would be better I also have the same mount thanks again
@@llamarvasquez1803 Very observant of you and I am not sure why mine was at x.20. After the video I changed it back to x.50 and most recommend that setting.
is pec training a one of thing or should i perform pec training regular.
I would say it’s a one time thing. If after time I felt the guiding was getting worse I might look to redo it.
Is there a way to change back if there is no impovement?
You can just turn off PPEC in eqmod or record a new curve. If you have saved to the motors then a factory reset via the handset would put everything back to start
@@Astrobloke thanks Glen. I ran the PEC last night and 2nite it's been doing naked handstands with the occasional half twist. I'll let it ran all night and see if it settles down, cause as we know....gently gently and don't rush or panic with all things Astro. 🔭
@@Chris_NGC6188Arahi mate and yes gently gently indeed. Just to check make sure you have run a fresh calibration after and if you can also a guide assist of at least 8mins (480sec)
Slew as far south as you can and ideally have the RA axis horizontal so parallel with the ground and the Dec reading zero on its co ordinates. (That will be dependent on your view and location)
I get as close as I can as buildings stop me at home. From this position run your calibration for best results
Does it matter if dithering is on both when recording the PEC curve and then when uploading it to the mount?
My curve is not a perfect smooth sine wave. There are a couple of sharp "snags". Is this normal?
No you can record with dithering on and imaging. Not all curves are smooth in fact many are not. You can record a few and then make a smooth curve by averaging them out in pecprep. I am going to release a video on doing this soon.
@@Astrobloke thanks. I'm not sure I'm seeing a massive improvement after applying PEC but it is a bit better. maybe I should run the guiding assistant again. It sits between 0.60" and 0.80" with my SCT 1477 focal length, OAG, Lodestar2
@@nicholasmichael9452 I would run a new guide assistant. What is your image scale? You want your guiding the best you can get it but for round stars you want to be under the image scale. My guiding is off tonight being 0.9 - 1.2 but the seeing is poor. My image scale is 1.5 so the subs still look good.
@@Astrobloke for my imaging camera the pixel scale is 0.63"/pixel. Is this scale you mean or the guidescope pixel scale (the guidescope pixel scale is 1.19"/pixel)?
I reran the guiding assistant and it's around 0.50" but clouds have started moving in.
@@nicholasmichael9452 that’s better. Sometimes if seeing is bad, high clouds, humidity etc there is not much you can do. After auto focus my HFR was >4 so my guiding was always going to struggle. A good night where I am I get 2 HFR and then my guiding is 0.5
PEC records 5 times during one 8 minute process. So if you record 8… that’s 40 recording…
5 is a good number but I think you can run a minimum of 2 and a max of 9. This can be done while imaging so I run the max 9 cycles as the mount is working all night anyways (as long as it stays clear)
Do you need to guide while do it ?
Hi, yes you do as it detects the periodic errors outside of guiding adjustments.
@@Astrobloke great! Is it fine to guide towards south? Since the mount is in the most weakest point of tracking in that direction.
And i be wanted to say many thanks for this video such a great content:)
@@dreamisreallygood6276 absolutely. I did my PEC training while imaging The Whirlpool galaxy so whatever you are fixed on is fine. Make sure the guiding is settled and its also ok to leave dithering on as it accounts for that
Do you suppose the PEC capturing shouldn't look like the trajectory of a ball bouncing on the floor rolling away from you? Mine never goes below the middle line. It's not a Sine curve. I've always thought my mount has issues. It's the famous EQ6R Pro, but now even my correcting PEC window looks like a mountain chain from seen from the side.
On my HEQ5 the pec curve looks like you describe with the ball bouncing away. On my eq6 r pro it is a sine curve but I know others where it is not. I think what is important is what are your guiding numbers like (total rms error)
@@Astrobloke oh ok. Thanks. Before Pec sometimes the rms is around 0.55 to 0.69. But it can get to 0.75 to 1.02. I recorded a pec but I didn't have time to see what changed in guiding. I'll try it next time.
@@Thunder_Dome45 0.55-0.69 is very good. See what difference the Pec does and let me know. Remember to tick autopec and make sure you park the mount before you turn off and then it will always auto load and be there. In EQ mod what is your guide rate at? also let me know your PHD2 settings and I'll see if anything stands out that could be imptoved
So that’s how you do PEC
Any problems or questions just let me know
Aluminium lmao Oregano 👍😂😂
Potato tomato lol
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