How value Ayaka getting low doesn't mean best against multi wave enemies time challenge or best against highest set score difficult, she best Cryo playstyle before Wriothesley than Ganyu for fast paced timer
She got nerfed the same way Venti did. They keep introducing mobs that don't freeze well or bosses that don't stand still much. And it will probably get worse. You can still use Venti and her but it's not as easy as it was. Get Shenhe's C1 before you get Ayaka's cons - neither need cons but Shenhe's feels nice and makes the rotation easier.
i'd agree with this one. Shenhe is the key on cryo comps. C1 Shenhe is where the experience different in any Cryo comps. for players who made it to C6 Shenhe, hurray. zero issues on ANY cryo teams xD even Qiqi main dps will be possible
@@milosaga5450 thing is you don't have to rely on Icyquill stacks completely. she has her buff for NA/CA, Cryo damage and Cryo shred without her Icyquill stacks. this is what makes her necessary at the current state of cryo. without shenhe, cryo teams will be a lot weaker.
@@lsnexus2080 Yeah but without Icy Quills, Kazuha just does a lot more right? 40% def shred and 40% damage boost is massive. Yes I can use both, but I don't have both and I gotta pick one
Im shocked by the novelty bias in this vid honestly, he didnt mention ganyu's name once in the video, thinking ayaka was objectively better and now that they release a new cryo he instantly doomposts his own main (All the three are tied and each individually have flaws that the others cover)
I do consider Ayaka a costly unit because of my own experience with a C0R0 Ayaka with Kazuha, Kokomi, Rosaria. Pretty much any time Kazuha can't group the enemies or enemies can't be frozen, other teams I have with lower 5 star cost will clear faster. I understand the argument that you should just use her where she excels, but personally, I would like my 5 stars to do their job anywhere. That's all my experience though, and if people have different experiences, that's good. I just like to give the caveat of her being expensive based on my own experience to people considering pulling for her.
Yep i also use her with kokomi and kazuha, i still dont have rosaria, she is the only unit i dont have so i replaced her with diona and i must say that ayaka is not great most of the time
@@ajjosh3548Part of the problem is that team. Bennett certainly isn’t terrible with her but not ideal. Especially if he’s C6 then just remove him. Jean provides no grouping which Ayaka really wants. Her ideal teams right now are Kokomi, Shenhe, Kazuha or Furina, Charlotte Kazuha. Sucrose with Ttds can be swapped with Kazuha and you can use rosaria as your cryo alternative if no shenhe.
As a C2R1 Ayaka player, I completely agree. Ayaka isn't by any means a weak character, but she simply doesn't have the same value she once did. I'd say for any players seeking the most optimal DPS route, just skip Ayaka and pull Neuvillette when he reruns. Ayaka requires higher awareness for proper play and investment (in terms of team comps and weapons) than some of the more recent powerful DPS options. Again, she isn't a bad character by any means, I just wouldn't recommend someone who isn't willing to really focus on Ayaka investment-wise to pull her.
C0R1 Ayaka, completely agree. freeze just isn't relevant anymore (you could play freeze in some chambers but still), and melt... well there are better options
True. It has no good reactions except freeze which offers no damage boost and is becoming more and more neiche. At least pyro got burgeon and burning and now chevruse is *SPOILERS* Is gonna buff overload alot
Geo is better then cryo at this point. At least they have petra. Cryo has no support except superconduct which sucks and their reliant on a vv anemo to do damage unlike geo and a whole artifacts set (blizzard strayer) that doesn't even work half the time. (Freeze fell off)
Ayaka players are learning Ganyu player's agony the hard way. And I see it only getting worse, Hoyo will prolly drop SSS tiers Cryo characters in Shneznaya or maybe even natlan(or not)
Ganyu remained quite stable..... Bcuz of here use case in both 1) freeze and melt. 2) xiangling pure er and new sets 3) benny and morax the usual 4) her ult is 15 sec lasting and 15 second cooldown Making her quite versatile than ayaya. But there is no doubt ayaya generally tends to be more comfy
I think the way they're going to do that is moving Cryo carries away from Freeze. Blizzard Strayer is really hard to be topped in that archetype, and they will definitely add a pair of good sets at 6.0. What they did to Wriothesley is a hint to that: sure he still works like the old-school Freeze carry, but MH is more consistent and the Melt team has a competitive damage ceiling (even higher if using Furina + Burning iirc)
What on earth are you even talking about, an «agony»? Ganyu is still perfectly fine, there are a ton of Ganyu clears with good enough clear time even in her freeze teams. People like you really like to exaggerate the older characters’ falling usage rates for absolutely zero reason. All the while it’s all caused by a completely mundane fact - people tend to get tired from playing the same exact characters over and over, and they simply move to newer units when they accumulate enough funds - it’s not like you get banned from getting primogems after pulling your first five star. There literally aren’t any limited five stars that aren’t capable of clearing abyss, which is the only form of endgame content. Stop doomposting no reason whatsoever.
Honestly you should have talked about her reliance on kazuha in much more depth, its true she's not the only character who benefits greatly from grouping, but missing one or two enemies with ayaka's burst is a much bigger damage loss than not having shenhe, its imperative for making sure your burst opportunities arent wasted and making it so you dont have to reset the chamber as often, other anemo characters just dont compare in any measure, and the difference in ease of use between having and not having kazuha is night and day
She relies on groupers for sure, but I talked about 5* reliance more in the light of "you need to pull this unit for this other unit". Having to pull kazuha for ayaka is not bad to me because you want a Kazuha on the account in general. While it's true that you really want kazuha on the team if you use ayaka and that locks you out of using him with other units, I don't feel like reliance of this kind to another contested unit is exclusive to ayaka
pretty much. since there are only 2 real groupers in this game anyway. venti has no buff and keeps small enemies out of reach so kazuha really is the only option. but yep if you dont have kazuha or even venti, using her ult which is the bulk of her dmg will always be a gamble.
Ayaka fallen off is just result of Freeze teams being not META anymore. She works best if you can maximize hitting the enemies with her burst but feels really bad if you dont. No worries, SURELY Cryo element will have time to shine during Snezhnaya.
She's strong alright yet expensive, specifically her teams as a main carry, but alas Hyperfridge is my best option for her and god its a weird team but it works too well.
Agree. Enemy pattern and their placement in abyss room can really affect Ayaka performance. Not that she won't clear the abyss, but to get significant better time her 5s nuke must be planned really well. I also felt really bad at my gameplay when I have to use 3 bursts for 3 waves enemies. And to reduce 3 bursts to 2 or even 1 I have to use 100% power of my brain only to be ruined by enemy attack rng.
@@el7284 yeah, that's the thing. It's overkill for one wave. And on the next wave the enemy is too far from burst position. That's why I said planning her burst is needed to not waste it. Most popular solution is to lure the enemy to next wave spawn position and burst there. I assume you are confused that I need 3 burst for 3 waves. Not that I don't meet the dps req, my dps is fine, but the enemy waves placement is scattered and I wasn't playing optimally. Like the enemy waves is scattered enough so half duration of her burst is hitting the air.
It really depends honestly. If you have Shenhe and Mistsplitter you can clear smaller waves in one or two charged attacks. That’s the case for me. Though I don’t know about others because my ayaka has really cracked artifacts that I still can’t find a reason to pull for another hypercarry.
Thank you for the update I generally agree with all the points. I believe the game has reached the point that the more you spend in time and resources on a team archetype you'll see the result you want. All pre dendro team are still clearing the abyss 36 star and the RUclips videos are clear evidence of this. So pull for a character you want. p.s: a Eula or Ganyu video next. Please 🙏
I thinks she's fallen into the same category as venti. Either really really good or really really bad completely depending on the enemy lineup/mechanics. It's not a great position for a character to be in unfortunately. When she works it's awesome and very satisfying, but when she doesn't it's honestly pretty frustrating - much more than any other unit I can remember playing. You really have to know what you are doing to get good results from her, otherwise she feels clunky and has low damage. Now that there are so many other strong carries it's much more of a personal choice to get her and less of a "she's so good you have to pull her" type of character.
There isn’t a single «so good you must pull» main DPS character in the entire game. Not a single one, not even Neuvillette. All of them are preference picks. Concerning enemy lineups / mechanics - what are you even talking about? If the enemies come in waves, then just use Shenhe’s icy quills to buff Ayaka’s charged attacks & finish them off with Kazuha, leaving her burst for the harder enemies, that’s literally it. Concerning «enemy mechanics» - there’s absolutely none worthy of discussion. There aren’t any unfreezable enemies, not a single one, there’s only «freeze-resistance», which is easily overtaken by her fast-hitting burst. Bosses have always been unfreezable, but why would you even play Ayaka against them in the first place? And even if there’s an occasional boss chamber on the AoE side, you can still frontload her burst in just 5 seconds. And even by not playing perfectly, her damage is still far from being low.
@@vladdyru Yes of course you can play whoever you want, but can you genuinely recommend Ayaka over Neuvillette in terms of all around ease of gameplay? I do recognize that a must pull is an outdated term, but when she came out she was pretty damn close to one, although I think this also had to do with the more limited DPS roster compared to what we have now. I disagree with your point about enemies being taken out with the fast hitting burst, as in my experience they will just move out of the way if they cannot be frozen for long enough periods of time. Also idk how saying if you don't play a character right you're not going to do great damage is slander lol.
@@saskia6148There’s no such thing as a must pull, so I wouldn’t recommend any main DPS at all, it’s a matter of personal preference. Neuvillette is objectively the best one scaling-wise, but that doesn’t matter one bit - the current abyss can be cleared with any limited five star, without their respective best team, and even at extremely bad investment. This discussion is essentially pointless, especially considering that it only generates unnecessary hate & attracts basement dwellers like this other guy above. I mainly wanted to point out that comparing completely different characters is a worthless endeavour, nothing more to it.
@@vladdyru idk I feel like the entire point of this video is to have discussions like these - but also i can't see the other comment for some reason and now I'm super curious, could you tell me what it says?
A character you actually have to play, unlike neuv who is relatively speaking a baby handholder. I'll pick Ayaka and even Mistsplitter over him any day of the week
Since you mentioned Ayaka’s reliance on upgrades, I think this video lacks a comment on Ayaka’s performance at different levels of investment outside of freeze teams, specifically in situations like bosses. It’s night and day, many players say Ayaka is perfect for bosses and I agree… if you have tools like Shenhe, Misplitter or Kazuha, but without any of those or only one her monocryo or hypercarry performance in such scenarios drops down significantly compared to freeze AoE ones, to the point that other Ayaka teams like melt with Xiangling and hyperfridge do far better until you reach a certain threshold in terms of not only artifacts quality, but also upgrades like R1 or Shenhe. This is ridiculous if you think about how much those teams (melt, hyperfridge) are despised by the community, you often hear “Ayaka doesn’t work with melt”, “she performs the best in freeze and monocryo, everything else is just bad for her”… but this is simply not true if you can’t freeze and you lack certain upgrades. My very first Abyss clear was with Ayaka melt after trying other teams with her, and it took me a lot to comfortably clear a boss in F12 Abyss with Ayaka (and it was after getting Kazuha).
With newer units being easier to play, I've started to notice that the design of 2.X units was never as player-friendly as people make it out to be. I agree that Ayaka is difficult to play, but I think even characters like Raiden and Itto, which are known to be easy to pilot, can get pretty strict with combos and timings when you decide to optimize their gameplay. Ayato would be the only exception here, really. Regarding Ayaka, I remember that, after her first rerun (in 2.6 iirc?), the 2.7 Abyss came with lots of Cryo enemies. Things were never the same for her after that. I find it sad, since she was my first 5*, but without primo investment she's bound to be one of the worst performing teams in any account. And pulling that many 5* just to make her competitive isn't exactly appealing (farms for Mistplitter anyway).
why is Raiden there? Raiden is basically a powerhouse in her teams. easy to perform, hard to counter since Raiden National contains all types of elements to counter abyss. its an ungabunga team. just burst burst burst rotate and repeat xD -this is c0 anyway. if Raiden is on C2, man that's totally absurd. raiden hyper carry can deal easy 80-100k slashes on infusion. with initial hit of 400k++ (not crit fishing) not to mention Raiden can be in hyperbloom teams xD
@@lsnexus2080 That hasn't been my experience with my C0 Raiden lately, and it's not like I've invested less into her compared to my other characters. She just performs consistently worse, even if it's not as bad as Ayaka's case. And she's definitely not easier to manage than someone like Alhaitham. As I said, her combos have pretty strict timings. Failing to do a charged attack because her burst just ended is common with her. There's a reason why her 3N3C N1C combo that was usually recommended as her go to for most players no longer is.
@@untipocualquiera635 that's what you call skill issue.there's no strict rotations for raiden teams as long as you have good amount of investment specially if they are well built. all raiden needs to do is to continuously hit enemies and all your teams should get their burst back. Raiden national team should have burst nonstop. if you fail to do that then your builds are not really good. in every Raiden comps that has 250 - 270ER - you should already be able to battery your teams non stop. my xiangling has 240 ER with 241EM 165Cdamage and 60 critrate. bennett has 230ER with aquila favonia and XQ has 220ER with 65/170 ratio. i don't even need to do some crazy things. just burst burst burst before raiden starts her thing. even with just NA no CA can refill their burst nonstop. its Xiangling that has to do damage with XQ vaping 50k++ nonstop. XL and Raiden are additional damage. on top of it. players without skill issues has been continuously destroying abyss with that team.
@@lsnexus2080 It's not skill issue, you're not even responding to what I was saying. You keep bringing Rational up as if it was the pinnacle of Raiden teams. It's not. It is very easy to play, but it's in part because Raiden's damage is less impactful. You're punished less for making mistakes. The thing is you can play teams that are just as easy to play and not only have higher ST damage, but also infinitely better AoE. Or do we ignore Neuvillette, Alhaitham in Quickbloom, Yae in Aggravate or even Taser teams with Furina? These teams include on-field combos that are easy to do, have more flexible rotations and higher floor and ceiling. They reward investment more than Rational does. Raiden's battery potential isn't all that. You can just bring better batteries instead. Those do exist, in fact. So you're left with her damage and, at C0, while good, it isn't giving her peers much competition. At the moment, her flexibility is her main claim to fame.
I got ayaka but her damage feels bad if you miss her burst or all attacks dont connect, then there's the issue of building her burst up again and what happens inbetween
@@divinesan7786 that's not true, even in freeze sometimes enemies have high mobility but can't be grouped like the rifthound, it's so dependant on getting the right timing which makes you press the retry button. it's up to you tho, hope you still have your hair
Then learn positioning ? People are so much focusing on her burst that they forget that her autos exist to make sure you can get enough time to group enemies .
Ayaka has a special place for me cause I started playing Genshin around 2.6 when we got the eternal ayaka banner. While she wasn't my first 5 star (I got Diluc in my pulls on the Noelle banner) she was the first 5 star I purposefully went for. I have built her "main" team with Shenhe, Kokomi, and Kazuha + built her well. I plan on getting Mistplitter eventually also. That being said it has been a little annoying playing her recently, could be a skill issue but she just doesn't feel as good to play as other characters right now. Hopefully something will happen that makes it a little better to play her in future Abyss cycles
Unfortunately the next abyss lineup seems like not designed for Ayaka. If the leak is true, then 3rd chamber first half is Hydro Tulpa, which pretty hard to kill even in overworld due to Kazuha unable to swirl cryo. First chamber second half is Thunder Manifestation, a boss that move around, this is the only possible place to put Ayaka but, hyperbloom will be much smoother to play without waiting for boss to stand still.
Sad to see my fav character from 2.6 when I started playing and has been 36* since then (first 36* reached only after 135 days playing GI), my only C2 limited character, is very situational to use
They made Inazuma characters to expensive to build and to have balanced damage, but with Fontaine they just went like whaterever just put a lot of damage so they can be built with whatever and they are good to go
they only went like that with neuvillette tho? wriothesley & furina has some weird hp mechanics. lyney is a better ganyu but pyro. navia? is surely not gonna be at neuvi's level. so nah they only did that to neuvillette.
@masrgym8355 no, it's definitely how they made fontaine. Alot of Fontaine characters can be more flexible in teams in terms of building and be consistant in dmg while not having to rely on super tight rotations like alot of inazuma characters. The hp mechanics are a buff to the characters and can be gained back using healers and their own skills.
Can confirm. As a C4R1 Ayaya haver with her best team of Shenhe, Kokomi and Kazuha, she's still my go to for slapping anything that I feel too lazy to use something else. The damage is so good even against stuff that can't be frozen!
@@Laziotanot even lol. Only reason this one kinda sucks is cuz of pyro lectors but if you have a good boss build you can kill all of chamber 2 in one or two rotations.
i dont know, ayaka is still okay solely because of her infinite cryo infusion. but she still good in this abyss atleast because they expect us to play hydro and pyro in this version of abyss imo
Ayaka’s strength can really depend on the level of investment. Though for ayaka it’s much easier to stack crit damage because of blizzard strayer. For me, she’s strong enough to kill any non boss enemies in Abyss 12 in 5 seconds. That’s why I think she’s still top tier.
if strong enough to kill non boss enemies on f12 make character top tier, every character is toptier then lmao. even barbara bloom and amber melt pass abyss full star.
Pretty much my thoughts on ayaka as well. Funnily enough i got blasted in zajeff daily's comment section for saying exactly this. People need to update their opinions on characters more often. I have C2R1 ayaka, and i often just choose to run some quickbloom keqing team instead, or klee with furina. Not because ayaka is bad, she actually often clears much faster than my other teams, but because the inconsistency is annoying af, especially against garbage enemies like seahorse.
Ayaka rotation execution with Shenhe, Kazuha, Mona is almost exactly 12 seconds since from Shenhe E to Ayaka ultimate. That mean right after Ayaka using ultimate, you can swap to Shenhe and E again then swap to kazuha and E again to reapply all of their buff and effect. If you strip that, you lose the Shenhe E boosts for Ayaka ultimate which is a big multiplier with all of the other buff stuff the team has. The team is even more demanding of perfect execution than Childe national and relies on Prototype Amber Mona as the healing source (if you are casual and takes damage somehow). However the ceiling is still unmatched to this day and she is still the premium character for speed run along side Hutao. Ayaka, Hutao and Nilou are also operate in different team support entirely so speed runner never have issue overlapping these characters. My ayaka usually 1 rotation a boss when I planned well after some reset of the pattern. She is so well made and well balanced. If you get good you also get better reward for playing her. Genshin player nowadays cater to more casual so the all the hard rotation is no more but only remains with the infinite up time but moderate buff and field damage.
I really don't think she's that much worse than she used to be, but admittedly I haven't been paying much attention lol. Lately "Meta" has come to mean "most recent tactic available" rather than "most effective tactic available." Alot of these older units/teams from before Dendro still work, but people have mainly focused on Dendro and the HP manipulation characters Fontaine has brought and with good reason; they're what's on rateup right now.
9:27 Well since you showed this (debatably infamous 😋) tier list, how about a new video on Raiden since she will rerun soon too. I see Raiden is put in the highest tier, but only at C2, and as a MainDps. So how much value does c0 Raiden bring to a f2p account? Ive got Kuki and Ive got Childe, so both hyperbloom and national are covered for me. What else can a c0 Raiden provide?
People forget that abyss is literally fixed to promote character pulls. Ayaka will return to dominance whenever Hoyo wants to sell Ayaka. It’s that simple. For all Neuvilette’s strength he’ll be little more than a teapot ornament if Hoyo brings chambers with hydro immunity on both sides.
This sounds like the silliest objection. Hoyo does not introduce hard counters like that, they simply make soft counters to incentivize you into playing the newer meta characters. And from looking at the past Neuvillette seems like he will be good for another region after Fontaine before Hoyo will promote a team that can handle newly designed enemies and mechanics better than him. Ayaka's dominance? It is a thing of the past, she will only resurge in some usage rate clinging on to the abyss that Hoyo creates to sell their next cryo characters.
Yeah except that actual top tier characters dont need abyss to be designed just for them to be good (Neuv, Haitham, even Xiangling). Ayaka is just a niche character nowaday: heavily rely on abyss matchups to be at least "decent", and even then her premium full limited 5-star teams cant compete with f2p Neuv and Haitham teams. And before ppl brought up "c4r1 Ayaka c61 Shenhe" into this, Neuv teams and Haitham teams also have much higher and better ceiling with more investments too (c2+ Nahida, c2+ Furina etc).
Basically, be a slave to Alhaitham and Neuvillette. I have both and both are benched. I now prefer to use Tighnari's team and whatever I can do without those two. Neuvillette has one of the most boring and anticlimatic gameplay aka charge and rotate. Alhaitham is good but it gets boring to play with him. They are strong but where's the fun in all of this? I considered getting Ayaka because I want a freeze team buuuut I'm going to feed my queen Raiden with c2 instead. I just wished that Ayaka was good with hyperfridge because I really like hyperfriedge. It's getting tiring all these "not worthy when you have Alhaitham and Neuvillette".
Lol same I have both and I clear abyss with childe on one half and cyno on the other always will since those are my fav ones and honestly speaking meta wise too childe international is comparable to neuvill and cyno with furina baizhu can compete with alhaitham in single targets specifically so yea just play with fav chars
It's a repeating cycle. Ayaka was at top in past and she also was described as anticlimatic braindead and boring because she was too strong. Just wait until wait for natlan and nuev will be the underdog 😂
Agreed 100%, the idea of comparing literally any unit to Alhaitham & Neuvillette is ridiculous. Like yes, they have better scalings than the majority of this game's characters. But so what? Why is that information treated as some kind of forbidden knowledge? Is there like a literal ban on pulling anyone but them now, and if you don't abide by that, you get banned from the Mickey Mouse Club? Actual delusion, man.
This isn't "Who's the most fun character/gameplay" but "Who's the meta". Mathematics back it up. If you're doing great with Tighnari and whatever then enjoy it because you're clearly already know what you're doing. From a META (Most Efficient Tactic Available) perspective, it's not worth your time and investment right now. Sure maybe in the future it will be but that's the future, not right now. As for fun, yeah I enjoy Ayaka a lot and one of my go to characters in the abyss because it matches my play style. Same as mono geo with Noelle as the carry. Those play styles are fun to me but maybe for you it isn't and that's okay. Charged attack focus characters like Ganyu, Tighnari and Lyney aren't fun for me. Since you like Tighnari then it's fun for you and it's okay to keep enjoying it. No need to seek validation and just disagree with this video because you don't want to be a slave with Al Haitham and Neuvillette.
As a f2p, Ayaka can feel pretty underwhelming. Not being able to reach the damage threshold feels really bad. Hence why i like the furina team more, i definitely feel its more f2p friendly and casual friendly than her pre-furina premium nuke teams
@@sanadye1861 thats with shenhe kazuha and kokomi/mona, without one of them her dmg goes down by 130k each, And also 1M dpr is trash for having an all 5 star team
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz Bad? A 1 million burst rotation clears everything outside of bosses but she has a boss variant team that does more damage than that. Your team comp you said can easily reach a 2 million damage rotation. C0r1 Ayaka with shenhe, Mona/koko/c2 furina, and kazu comfortably hits between 50-60k ticks and this isn’t even accounting her 100k+ charged attacks and 60-80k skills. Her burst alone is 1 million plus, use the rest of her kit and she becomes a menace. A c2 ayaka melt boss comp when the 3 hit idc functions properly works can go up to a 3-5 million rotation depending on investment. She’s still extremely strong dps and just because cryo isn’t as desirable rn doesn’t take away from the insane dmg capabilities she has.
@@sanadye1861 c2 furina lul imagine needing c2 furina, kazuha, shenhe and mistsplitter just to deal 1M dpr, also u arent gonna be charge atking on ayaka much since you will spend her downtime batterying her and 3M dpr is massive stretch the most she does is 1.2M
Cryo never fell off, it was always "just fine", the best cryo characters has been Kaeya only at C6 and only between 1.0 and 1.3, on 1.4 Rosaria was better Kaeya but its a role you dont really value in a teamcomp, but she could carry Melt playstyle for a little more, then we got Ayaka on 2.0 but she didnt bloom until 2.4 with Shenhe and they both are tailored together since then, but the output of the team was very equal at that time with other good teams, the impact was only that she was Burst focused so you see more big number in little time window, and cryo stoped get any improvement until Wriothesley that is in some way another Ayaka but you change Frontload DMG for Sustained DMG what synergize better with more modern units and playstyles, he can carry melt better and all but his output is just fine too, nothing have powercreeped Cryo itself for a while, and it haven't changed playtyles too much neither, Cryo need more tailored units for specific gameplays with good upsides and downsides, is just has been a very plain element for a while
Bro forgot about Ganyu. For over a year after she was released the game was basically Ganyu impact. Even if you don't like her playstyle you had to admit she was absolutely one of the strongest carries in the game for a good amount of time.
@@saskia6148 oh true mb there, she was good bc of the abyss lineup only and bc Venti was snergystic with her both for lineup and burst similarities, the moment venti died on 2.0 also did she died with it, and they released a more synergystic cryo carry at the same time on 2.0, while ganyu freeze was never actually over the line by herself but due to what happen around her (venti, abyss lineup, lower HP cealing of enemies that were also easier to kill for her), melt also existed with moderate impact, but also a DMG output in line with other options at the time, same as Ayaka. she was never "one of the strongest carries" but she was part of "one of the best teamcomps" for a while context changed for Ganyu/Venti and she deflated harder than Ayaka.
What are you even struggling with? Most Fontaine enemies aren’t even freeze-resistant. Only the local legends are, but they have an actual hydro aura. If you can’t even freeze them, then I can only assume that you haven’t discovered the buttons which activate the characters’ skills & bursts, you should probably work on that.
Like, in terms of investment, ayaka r1 shenhe kokomi kazuha is just as expensive as cyno r1 nahida furina baizhu. Not the best thing to compare ayaka with cyno, but the meta changed definitely
o.o? Ayaka still op. Fontaines enemys are so darn easy to beat with her lol Mine use just a perfect(means no useless substats)gladiator set and Jade Sword. Both no dupes upgrades. I pick alot Ayaka if I want to beat most world bosses or annoying enemys quick.
As a long time Ayaka enjoyer I have to say she is absolutely amazing in farming domains, exploring and slaying in the abyss, provided there are no cryo resistant mobs. And this is the main isssue - lately, there are many cryo resistant mobs in the abyss. Also regarding missing her burst. Honestly? It's not that difficult NOT to miss it. Like seriously, I if this is the thing that prevents you from pulling you can safely stop worring about it. I have Shenhe but at the moment my favourite Ayaka team is with Furina, Kokomi and Kazuha - absolutely slaying.
@@Sable813 Sucrose is fine, she just needs a bit more skill to group up the enemies which Ayaka appreciates. Kazuha is like an easy one whoosh and done kinda guy.
@@Sable813 without kazuha is fine. but you'd want shenhe if you want good team. Shenhe makes any cryo strong. don't listen to clowns saying you need blablabla and premium team to do good. any teams needs a certain comps. a lot of them uses 5stars too. specially kazuha and archons having a total of 3 5star in a team. all 5star at times. for example, my current team for Hutao is HuTao Yelan Furina Jean - all 5stars. even other dendro 5stars. main dps of 5star + nahida and probably baizu.
Honestly though, maybe it's just my luck but I experienced so many instances where her burst misses. I have triple crowned C0R1 Ayaka, but it's so easy lose a lot of damage because either: 1) unfreezable boss enemies moves/dodges, or 2) cluster of mobs are not grouped enough. Given that her damage falls off after her burst, it's really frustrating.
Oh how mighty have fallen. Abyss contain more and more bosses and some enemies resist freezing. When it works it works, but if not its not only inefficient but also boring to play freeze
The thing with Ayaka is that one of the only characters that use all of her kit, you can use burst, people don’t talk about her skill but she does 100 -150k hits sometimes and her normal attack being infused with cryo make her so fun to play, but I must agree if you want a most simple and powerful unit then go for neuvillete
those people probably did not pull for Shenhe wherein all teams in genshin needs certain team comp. some of them even uses 5star supports. some ven use all 5star team.
@@lsnexus2080 yeah, that’s why I said always focus on the characters you like and their best teams, don’t pull like crazy and save for constellations, cuz is funny some people on videos says for example Ayaka is expensive, but at the same time they tell you Alhaitham good dps and cyno good dps (skipping the part you need full 5 supports as well), Ayaka on F2P can do 30k ticks, while in premium teams can go to 60k ticks, Neuvillete is good, but people need to realise that current abyss is hydro favoured, I solod it with furina
@@nunaneto yep they failed to realize that other teams also have premium teams xD and abyss keeps changing. its not like an element is falling off. more of the how abyss floors favors the element(depending on what banner we have)
@@lsnexus2080 yup current abyss is always related to current characters, when natlan comes it will be for pyro, when cryo archon comes it will be for cryo
@@lsnexus2080 Honestly I lost 2 50/50 early pity on Alhaitham banners. I like him but not enough to spend everything and grind for him. But the thing is I can't get one copy of Kuki and she is on his best team. Even now I don't want Cyno and Ayato. I al garantee so I want to spend my garantee on a 5 stars I want. So I can say, it can be even worse to get Alhaitham best team.
She is only top tier in very high investiments, if you have her with 4 star weapon, no Shenhe etc the damage diff will be HUGE, very low F2P potential on this character, and most of the negative commentes about her are very accurate
I actually benched Neuvillette a few days after I was done building him specifically because he's just too simple and too strong for my liking. Ayaka requiring strategy and positioning makes her way more interesting to play imo. That said, I understand why from a performance and comfort standpoint most people would prefer more modern carries over her.
I still use her and never stopped using her in abyss 😂 now after Furina she's more fun to play She nowhere fell off but enemies now have too many varieties and some need specific type of characters to be defeated in time.
Ayaka needs some effort to play and some investment. Landing a full burst is a really satisfying moment in recent abyss cycles. I play her often but it's a reset fiesta and I can't really recommend her nowadays to new players.
Ayaka won't be making a comeback with freeze, melt, or mono-cryo teams. Freeze and mono-cryo are unreliable by nature and Ayaka has no synergy with melt teams whether forward or reverse. The chance of her becoming a burst sub dps for a future superconduct team is unlikely, but its at least not impossible. The most plausible resurgence for Ayaka is she ends up working well somehow with a new element in a few years.
I’m pretty biased when it comes to her because she literally carried me for three years straight even when some bosses weren’t freezable. Of course, it’s been harder and harder nowadays to use her but she’s still good, to me
@@Forakus, that's why content creators release C6 showcases, right? Because no one cares. Get over yourself. There are many opinions in this world beyond your own.
I think she's got a lot of use and I don't regret pulling for her ... but I admin, I've never bothered to finalise her artifacts and though levelled and equipped, by the smith, I've never actually used her outside event trials. I just kept using Mona.
I want her cons BUT after playing Genshin for a year, I am picking up on how strong supports cons are over main/hypers cons. AKA Furina, Yelan, Shenhe, Raiden (battery wise) I know the Tsaritsa will be here in like 2 years, which is a ways off, and maybe I will change my mind about Ayaka's cons, but I see Shenhe's cons more valuable than Ayaka's for future Cryo carries, especially the Cryo Archon. Looking at Ayaka's cons, like c1, c2, you would have to have Shenhe's c1 at least because her c2 will eat Shenhe's icy quills at c0 quick. Plus Shenhe gives Ayaka 15% CD on her burst at c2. Yes Ayaka's c2 gives more tics on her mini Snowstorms, BUT Shenhe's cons buffing that would make it even stronger. Maybe I will feel comfortable pulling cons on Ayaka once I have more on Shenhe, but Shenhe to me is future proof, considering we haven't made it to the land of Cryo yet. IMO, I often wonder if thats why HoYo gave us Ayaka and Hu Tao, two very strong carries, early on because their visions' nations were so far off? IDK just a theory. Regardless, I love Ayaka. Freeze is my favorite team comp because I LOVE crowd control. We'll see what happens, for now at least, I am waiting for Shenhe's cons 1st. ty 4 the vid!
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz different element though. and yes its comparable not weaker. out of 3, alhaitham hyperbloom will be weakest against a boss (this is ofc high investment teams that has been playing since day 1) HuTao being the strongest on single target. Ayaka stands at the middle ground. on AOE, if enemies can be grouped and you know what you are doing, Ayaka will clear fastest against these 3. otherwise you're not playing long enough as an end game player. a good Ayaka mains have been hitting 50-60k per tick of her burst and can spam her burst over and over. (this is with shenhe and Mistsplitter with a bit of ER and high crit damage). if you factor in constellations then it will be even worst. that cryo comp will surpass alhaitham and hutao teams. that Shenhe Ayaka combo is just deleting anything without burst.
@@lsnexus2080 lol alhaitham destroys hutao or ayaka even with 3star weap at c0, mine already hits for 50k per spread on a special 2-hit icd, while having hyperblooms to back him up, Also 55k per tick fully buffed ayaka is not out dmging alhaitham or hu tao lmao and shenhe buffs run out after 5-10 hits depending on if u know how to use her so after 10 hits your dmg buff is halved.
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz im not talking about 3star weapon but 5star weapon. again i'm not talking about low investment teams. HuTao is not better for AOE and AL isn't either.you probably only rely on dendro comps because your teams haven't been fully invested. and yes that 50k is not Shenhe's icyquills. that's her average with high invested ayaka. your ayaka must be weak then. you should see ayaka players doing 50k consistently with shenhe's burst, kazuha and kokomi if your team has good investment. and yes it can outdamage AL since AL's damage takes longer time than Ayaka who dealt 20hits of burst in 5s. also against boss AL wouln't be clearing faster. its HuTao who wins in ST. or are you talking about AL with C2 Nahida? then ofc that team will be better xD there's no archon yet to support cryo comps as of the moment. we will have to wait for Cryo archon and see how Cryo will do again if you are comparing with C2 Nahida ofc. and i repeat, dendro comps are good for low investment characters. but the same thing cannot be said for high investment teams. factoring constellations way up to C6 then AL will even get destroyed with AYA Shenhe combo. -we've seen every speedruns for this and always has been a thing
Still clearing every Abyss with her. Don't pull for her if she's gonna be one of your 5 carries. She requires investment. A lot of it. On another note, Is she "now competing with Neuvillette and Alhaitham"? Seriously? For what? It's like saying that F1 pilots are competing on who can finish a lap in less than 30 minutes. There's no "competing" for anything in this game, except competing for attention.
I know Ayaka is strong, but even back then I have so much difficulty using her to the point where my "non-meta" units are clearing the abyss faster than her. Her playstyle is clunky, slow, and requires a lot of steps. Her best teams usually doesn't have strong shielder which leaves her vulnerable to knockback. And in single target, her burst can easily miss unfreezable boss enemies if they move, or even in AoE it can miss a huge portion of the enemies despite being frozen, which becomes really frustrating and not fun to me at all.
Strange thing is there is lots is solo Ayaka vs Kenki video . I think it’s more like playstyle issue from your side . Well not that everyone can play Ayaka . It’s what x character mains are there .
I’ve considered pulling her, but I fear not using her because the abyss doesn’t favor her. I’ve had a similar situation with Ganyu, but Ganyu has been a really good sub dps for Furina double hydro. Ayaka can’t really be played as sub dps so I struggle to justify pulling for a slightly stronger freeze character.
Been using mono cryo Shenhe/ayaka since Shenhe first release. Mostly always on the second half they are boss slayers. Can always 36 star. Layla/ Kazuha/Shenhe/ayaka I think is the most all around strongest Ayaka team works for mobs and bosses. Layla shield allow you to do a lot more Ayaka charge attacks without interruption. Lmao I even managed to use them against the cryo resistant boss in recent abyss ( got c2 r1 from reruns )
Hey man, great vid A question, if you had to choose between Mistsplitter and engulfing for the upcoming patch, for someone who has, Ayaka, Shenhe and Raiden C2, which one would you choose?
The interaction works as far as I know, the issue is there isn't a reason to use it over Marechausse, especially with how much lower value the vermillion domain is since it's a worse set and echoes is also a generally bad set. Strongbox wise you'll nearly always be better off getting Virdescent, emblem, or specific dps sets like crimson witch or Blizzard strayer. The atk on Vermillion is less valuable than the damage % and crit on Marechaussue and Vermillion requires the character to start the rotation with burst.
@twigz3214 look I don't care about resin efficiency or all that. I'm just wondering what characters are good with it not named xiao not that furina is here
@@adeekfaizal5068 I don't think any on-fielder that could use the attack want to start with burst. Alhaithamn starts with burst but heavily prefers em, dmg% and crit and you could probably make it work on Raiden but doubt it would be better than Emblem. Ayato and Cyno could both also make it work but highly prefer Marechausse, and Ayato doesn't have much synergy with Furina anyway.
depends on a team but my c0 ayaka with r5 inazuma sword does around 12k ticks unbuffed and it goes upto 44k with buffs. I use her premium team and she does enough damage to clear worst abyss like wenut one.
wrio is the strongest c6 cryo as of the moment. but only 1% have him at c6.at c0 Ganyu and ayaka are both stronger than wrio. but sure if you are playing C6 level. though for c6 players that doesn't really mean a lot due to C6 characters are way powerful for the game to handle. even a C6 dehya can beat the hardest content anyday. this is why those meta usually is being focused around c0 teams.
Nowadays her value lies in the massive amount of cryo ticks she deals. it erases hydro and electro shields and still works to a lesser degree against pyro shields. she's the natural predator of hydro heralds.
Shield breaking is really the only justification I have to make getting her not feel like a total waste. I wish she was made electro instead. She would be a ridiculous aggravate dps.
@@Elrog3 its not just justification. strong ayaka players also have damage. this is because of shenhe's existence. and the more you are invested in cryo teams, the more they are deadly. and we will have Snezhnaya soon FYI
@@lsnexus2080 That damage is contingent on having specific enemies and it drops off massively for some others. Its just not worth investing in on its own. There's is no elemental shielded or elemental immune enemy that an electro-charged or aggravate team can't do decently against. But freeze and mono cryo hit a wall against a cryo shield. Its a luxury team composition, not something to rely on. Snezhnaya is more likely to give Ayaka more competition than to boost her.
@@Elrog3 usually archon buffs other characters as well so she gets buff at the same time even if there are better ones. and powercreep only is at C6 lately. Wrio at C0 is not better than ayaka C0 fyi. if i have to play melt, then Ganyu melt is powerful than Wrio melt. the key there is having Shenhe for damage. but against shields, Cryo only shreds if you know what you are doing. Kazuha needs to be infused with Shenhe's burst add in Ayaka wherein the 3 hit rule of element in ICD should be applied. Dendro against shields is easier. so if shields are your concern then sure play other teams.this can be applied in any element anyway. like who in the right way would use a cryo to cryo? or even pyro to pyro. its always a counter element. as far as damage is concerned, Ayaka is fine. a premium team can deal 50-60k each tick ofc where her ult is 20 ticks in 5sec. now its not like dendro comps are way better, dendro comps are just better at low investments. this is why team comps against a boss where hutao and ayaka can beat enemies faster than hyperbloom comps for high investment teams. i'm not talking about new players ofc since the majority players are OLD players. new players wouldn't even touch abyss floors anyway. also electro charge and aggrevate is not effective in cryo shields. that's one. abyss keeps changing. elements did not fall but rather it depends on what type of abyss we have. its not like the game is hard. its way too easy tbh where theorycrafting doesn't even matter any longer.
@@lsnexus2080 "usually archon buffs other characters as well so she gets buff at the same time even if there are better ones." - A boost only matters when it is compared against what other characters do and what the abyss dmg requirement has been inflated to. Its very unlikely Snezhnaya characters are going to boost Ayaka's place in the meta. "and powercreep only is at C6 lately." - That's definitely not true. Furina is the strongest c2 character in the game. Nuevillette did not raise the ceiling for single target damage, but he did bring down the skill level required to do a good amount of damage and he brought up the potential for aoe damage. "Dendro against shields is easier." - Uh, ok? Dendro is hardly the most notable shield breaking element. Electro, Pyro, and Hydro all are better off than it. Dendro just happens to counter the shields that electro (the most versatile shield breaking element) misses while also having a good reaction with electro so your team damage doesn't suffer for trying to get shield breaking (in the way that it would if you try to pair cryo with electro). "like who in the right way would use a cryo to cryo?" - You missed the point. Who in their right mind would build a team that requires you to build other teams to handle its weaknesses when you can build other teams that just don't have glaring weaknesses? I understand players that starting a long time ago having built up these characters. But for newer players (post dendro) it doesn't make sense. "also electro charge and aggrevate is not effective in cryo shields. that's one." - Both of those team archetypes typically use two electro characters. Electro characters break cryo shields. They are effective against cryo shields. They just aren't the most effective against cryo shields. "its way too easy tbh where theorycrafting doesn't even matter any longer." - If you have a well built account after playing for a long time, sure. Not everyone is there.
Ok! An advice from AR60 player if you are veteran or new to the game don't make a mistake of going for characters you don't actually want because they are in meta just pull who you want the most all characters are good i don't have ayaka but i am pulling for her cause I don't give a shit about what people say about her if she is still in meta or not, if there are better dps or not she is cute i always wanted her from the movement she was released and my Raiden and hu tao can clap abyss i also pulled for few characters at the beginning just for that meta and damage and THEY ARE ROTTING IN MY CHARACTER LIST I NEVER USE THEM just go for ayaka if you actually want her because of her looks or playstyle.
There is. Ayaka is strong at c0 but the problem still is what is explained. She has no flexibility. The moment you miss any enemies or the burst as a whole you've lost alot of dmg potential. Not to mention her high ER% requirements. Wriothesley Is more flexible in team comps, consistant dmg and has easier time gaining his burst back even for freeze team reactions. He surpasses ayaka at c1.
I think the biggest problem with Ayaka is strangely enough.. Shenhe. For a character that was meant to really help her, she actually doesn't do very much in practice.
for real unless you have her c1 that's still just half of the entirety of ayaka's burst tick, funny how even variations of ganyu's best team doesn't even require shenhe
Shes gonna be the last abyss team i build, but when i do, would usung LoFI for the insane crit damage substat be equal to or better than R5 Amenoma Kageuchi? Of course thats only if im not using Alhaitham in that abyss fir whatever reason
lofi passive is useless and it has low base atk so stacking too much crit dmg will diminish quickly, while amenoma r5 is equivalent to about 40% er at 2 stacks so it's always better and finale of the deep is even higher
Is it true that genshin devs will give a free ayaka just like how hsr devs will give a free Dr. Ratio (+free 10pulls)? Or is genshin really that greedy?
9:18 what? I have found it to be the exaxt opposite in my play. Where if I don't want to bother learning an emeies attack patterns i just freeze them. (Concentrated beasts abyss is a good example). There are so many enemies that i just don't know the attack patterns for because freeze. I know that abyss has a lot of bosses but a well built ayaka can just nuke them. I'm just confused on how you consider a freeze unit to not be braindead
Not quite equal as everyone always rejected Keqing for Ayaka only. Along with the next patch (4.3) featuring Ayaka visiting Fontaine to making a new shows
I've seen some niche builds for Ayaka with emblem and I kind of want to do that because I mainly only use ayaka against bosses so the 4pc blizzard is kinda wasted
ayaka was my first limited 5 star, and as a f2p with a pretty good ayaka and no shenhe and mistsplitter, ive been able to clear most abysses with some form of aoe with her just fine. however, gotta emphasize what you said abt skill expression. with ayaka, especially in this 4.2 abyss, i have to actively think abt grouping the enemies, and the wolves can be a real pain. i also have to not accidently infuse kazuha's burst with pyro, or it'll mess up my freezes and the enemies will ungroup. i personally like this skill expression, i find thinking abt whether or not to burst more engaging than doing the same rotation over and over. also, it's really satisfying when her burst just obliderates everything. but yeah, def not a must pull
Ayaka isnt a top tier Meta DPS anymore but she is still plenty strong. As a freshly new owner of C0R1 Ayaya I can confirm she's still pretty good if you want her to be.
After calculating my ayaka damage I can say Mitsplitter- 100% Jade cutter - 93% Finale of the deep (R5) - 91% Amenoma (R5) - 80% With furina, kazuha and Charlotte And R5 finale of deep one burst hits around 560k. Remember this is not speed running and without any external buffs just FREEZE.
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How value Ayaka getting low doesn't mean best against multi wave enemies time challenge or best against highest set score difficult, she best Cryo playstyle before Wriothesley than Ganyu for fast paced timer
The subtitles were perfect this video, imo
She got nerfed the same way Venti did. They keep introducing mobs that don't freeze well or bosses that don't stand still much. And it will probably get worse. You can still use Venti and her but it's not as easy as it was. Get Shenhe's C1 before you get Ayaka's cons - neither need cons but Shenhe's feels nice and makes the rotation easier.
It will get worse until Cryo archon is introduced.
i'd agree with this one. Shenhe is the key on cryo comps. C1 Shenhe is where the experience different in any Cryo comps. for players who made it to C6 Shenhe, hurray. zero issues on ANY cryo teams xD even Qiqi main dps will be possible
@@lsnexus2080How does it shape up with Wriothesley? Quick swapping causes Wrio to lose his E state
@@milosaga5450 thing is you don't have to rely on Icyquill stacks completely. she has her buff for NA/CA, Cryo damage and Cryo shred without her Icyquill stacks. this is what makes her necessary at the current state of cryo. without shenhe, cryo teams will be a lot weaker.
@@lsnexus2080 Yeah but without Icy Quills, Kazuha just does a lot more right? 40% def shred and 40% damage boost is massive. Yes I can use both, but I don't have both and I gotta pick one
Ganyu: First time?
😂😂
ganyu at least is still good in mobbing combat events
Im shocked by the novelty bias in this vid honestly, he didnt mention ganyu's name once in the video, thinking ayaka was objectively better and now that they release a new cryo he instantly doomposts his own main
(All the three are tied and each individually have flaws that the others cover)
I do consider Ayaka a costly unit because of my own experience with a C0R0 Ayaka with Kazuha, Kokomi, Rosaria. Pretty much any time Kazuha can't group the enemies or enemies can't be frozen, other teams I have with lower 5 star cost will clear faster. I understand the argument that you should just use her where she excels, but personally, I would like my 5 stars to do their job anywhere. That's all my experience though, and if people have different experiences, that's good. I just like to give the caveat of her being expensive based on my own experience to people considering pulling for her.
Yep i also use her with kokomi and kazuha, i still dont have rosaria, she is the only unit i dont have so i replaced her with diona and i must say that ayaka is not great most of the time
costly units are vertical invesstment character units
😢I just pulled her recently and I seem to be regretting it now cause I can’t seem to fit her in with Bennett, furina, and Jean
@@ajjosh3548 perhaps you could replace Jean with Charlotte and Bennett with Shenhe or Rosaria?
@@ajjosh3548Part of the problem is that team. Bennett certainly isn’t terrible with her but not ideal. Especially if he’s C6 then just remove him. Jean provides no grouping which Ayaka really wants. Her ideal teams right now are Kokomi, Shenhe, Kazuha or Furina, Charlotte Kazuha. Sucrose with Ttds can be swapped with Kazuha and you can use rosaria as your cryo alternative if no shenhe.
As a C2R1 Ayaka player, I completely agree. Ayaka isn't by any means a weak character, but she simply doesn't have the same value she once did. I'd say for any players seeking the most optimal DPS route, just skip Ayaka and pull Neuvillette when he reruns. Ayaka requires higher awareness for proper play and investment (in terms of team comps and weapons) than some of the more recent powerful DPS options. Again, she isn't a bad character by any means, I just wouldn't recommend someone who isn't willing to really focus on Ayaka investment-wise to pull her.
I have C4/R1 Ayaka with shenhe , I think the reason her skill buffs her attack so technically you are supposed to freeze the target before her burst
C0R1 Ayaka, completely agree. freeze just isn't relevant anymore (you could play freeze in some chambers but still), and melt... well there are better options
I didnt see the whole video yet, but ignoring Neuvilette, isnt Wrio also a direct upgrade over her?
I only got diluc right now. Who should i go for?
@@modt2002raiden
Cryo as a element fell off hard sadly. It used to be on the top of the meta back in morgana days and now its one of the worst.
True. It has no good reactions except freeze which offers no damage boost and is becoming more and more neiche. At least pyro got burgeon and burning and now chevruse is *SPOILERS*
Is gonna buff overload alot
Geo and physical mains would like to complain too
Cryo didn't fall off , its just the carries aren't exactly top tier like alhaitham or neuvellite
C6 your shenhe so now your Cryo Dps can work all the way to the Tsaritsa :D
Geo is better then cryo at this point. At least they have petra.
Cryo has no support except superconduct which sucks and their reliant on a vv anemo to do damage unlike geo and a whole artifacts set (blizzard strayer) that doesn't even work half the time. (Freeze fell off)
Ayaka players are learning Ganyu player's agony the hard way.
And I see it only getting worse, Hoyo will prolly drop SSS tiers Cryo characters in Shneznaya or maybe even natlan(or not)
Ganyu remained quite stable.....
Bcuz of here use case in both
1) freeze and melt.
2) xiangling pure er and new sets
3) benny and morax the usual
4) her ult is 15 sec lasting and 15 second cooldown
Making her quite versatile than ayaya.
But there is no doubt ayaya generally tends to be more comfy
I think the way they're going to do that is moving Cryo carries away from Freeze.
Blizzard Strayer is really hard to be topped in that archetype, and they will definitely add a pair of good sets at 6.0. What they did to Wriothesley is a hint to that: sure he still works like the old-school Freeze carry, but MH is more consistent and the Melt team has a competitive damage ceiling (even higher if using Furina + Burning iirc)
shenhe will have more value if that's the case soon :)
What on earth are you even talking about, an «agony»? Ganyu is still perfectly fine, there are a ton of Ganyu clears with good enough clear time even in her freeze teams. People like you really like to exaggerate the older characters’ falling usage rates for absolutely zero reason. All the while it’s all caused by a completely mundane fact - people tend to get tired from playing the same exact characters over and over, and they simply move to newer units when they accumulate enough funds - it’s not like you get banned from getting primogems after pulling your first five star. There literally aren’t any limited five stars that aren’t capable of clearing abyss, which is the only form of endgame content. Stop doomposting no reason whatsoever.
@@vladdyrufair point bro, but you should take your own advice as well.
Honestly you should have talked about her reliance on kazuha in much more depth, its true she's not the only character who benefits greatly from grouping, but missing one or two enemies with ayaka's burst is a much bigger damage loss than not having shenhe, its imperative for making sure your burst opportunities arent wasted and making it so you dont have to reset the chamber as often, other anemo characters just dont compare in any measure, and the difference in ease of use between having and not having kazuha is night and day
Ya the whole difficulty of placing her burst is trivialized with kazu
She relies on groupers for sure, but I talked about 5* reliance more in the light of "you need to pull this unit for this other unit". Having to pull kazuha for ayaka is not bad to me because you want a Kazuha on the account in general.
While it's true that you really want kazuha on the team if you use ayaka and that locks you out of using him with other units, I don't feel like reliance of this kind to another contested unit is exclusive to ayaka
pretty much. since there are only 2 real groupers in this game anyway. venti has no buff and keeps small enemies out of reach so kazuha really is the only option. but yep if you dont have kazuha or even venti, using her ult which is the bulk of her dmg will always be a gamble.
I only use sucrose & it still works
I think you need to learn positioning a lot
No way we are getting ayaka at AR 42 . NOWAYING
?
Og player ic 😂😂
Dude it's 2023, you got click baited back then /j
@@loreyxillumina the commenter knows, they're being sarcastic about it
@@duckpotatoes I know, I was joking but I guess I should have added a tone indicator
Ayaka fallen off is just result of Freeze teams being not META anymore.
She works best if you can maximize hitting the enemies with her burst but feels really bad if you dont.
No worries, SURELY Cryo element will have time to shine during Snezhnaya.
As a Keqing and Ayaka main, I totally agree. She’s super meta defined and inflexible
keqing however gets to be in agg, with some of the most flexible comps and rotations in the gam
She's strong alright yet expensive, specifically her teams as a main carry, but alas Hyperfridge is my best option for her and god its a weird team but it works too well.
Yup same as cyno all 5 star team and 5 star weapon to be great
@@sudiptaday7875 not really, in his new team, he is the only electro so Kitain with the energy refund is actually more useful now.
Lyney better than both@@fenrirtheashenwolf7627
ayaya still tops the dps
@@potatopcgamer739 and by top, you mean pretty much worse than 95% of 5 star on-fielders that were released after her initial banner
Agree. Enemy pattern and their placement in abyss room can really affect Ayaka performance. Not that she won't clear the abyss, but to get significant better time her 5s nuke must be planned really well.
I also felt really bad at my gameplay when I have to use 3 bursts for 3 waves enemies. And to reduce 3 bursts to 2 or even 1 I have to use 100% power of my brain only to be ruined by enemy attack rng.
Her burst is overkill tbh.
QEN2CA is well over a million damage, and most freezable enemies don't have that much hp.
@@el7284 yeah, that's the thing. It's overkill for one wave. And on the next wave the enemy is too far from burst position. That's why I said planning her burst is needed to not waste it. Most popular solution is to lure the enemy to next wave spawn position and burst there.
I assume you are confused that I need 3 burst for 3 waves. Not that I don't meet the dps req, my dps is fine, but the enemy waves placement is scattered and I wasn't playing optimally. Like the enemy waves is scattered enough so half duration of her burst is hitting the air.
@@Moos__ no, I was just adding to what you said. I have a bad habit of not continuing my train of thought, sorry.
@@el7284 Oh, I see. Thanks for the addition. Sorry for my wild assumption.
It really depends honestly. If you have Shenhe and Mistsplitter you can clear smaller waves in one or two charged attacks. That’s the case for me. Though I don’t know about others because my ayaka has really cracked artifacts that I still can’t find a reason to pull for another hypercarry.
Thank you for the update
I generally agree with all the points.
I believe the game has reached the point that the more you spend in time and resources on a team archetype you'll see the result you want. All pre dendro team are still clearing the abyss 36 star and the RUclips videos are clear evidence of this.
So pull for a character you want.
p.s: a Eula or Ganyu video next. Please 🙏
I thinks she's fallen into the same category as venti. Either really really good or really really bad completely depending on the enemy lineup/mechanics. It's not a great position for a character to be in unfortunately. When she works it's awesome and very satisfying, but when she doesn't it's honestly pretty frustrating - much more than any other unit I can remember playing. You really have to know what you are doing to get good results from her, otherwise she feels clunky and has low damage. Now that there are so many other strong carries it's much more of a personal choice to get her and less of a "she's so good you have to pull her" type of character.
There isn’t a single «so good you must pull» main DPS character in the entire game. Not a single one, not even Neuvillette. All of them are preference picks. Concerning enemy lineups / mechanics - what are you even talking about? If the enemies come in waves, then just use Shenhe’s icy quills to buff Ayaka’s charged attacks & finish them off with Kazuha, leaving her burst for the harder enemies, that’s literally it. Concerning «enemy mechanics» - there’s absolutely none worthy of discussion. There aren’t any unfreezable enemies, not a single one, there’s only «freeze-resistance», which is easily overtaken by her fast-hitting burst. Bosses have always been unfreezable, but why would you even play Ayaka against them in the first place? And even if there’s an occasional boss chamber on the AoE side, you can still frontload her burst in just 5 seconds. And even by not playing perfectly, her damage is still far from being low.
@@vladdyru average ayaka simp clown
@@vladdyru Yes of course you can play whoever you want, but can you genuinely recommend Ayaka over Neuvillette in terms of all around ease of gameplay? I do recognize that a must pull is an outdated term, but when she came out she was pretty damn close to one, although I think this also had to do with the more limited DPS roster compared to what we have now. I disagree with your point about enemies being taken out with the fast hitting burst, as in my experience they will just move out of the way if they cannot be frozen for long enough periods of time. Also idk how saying if you don't play a character right you're not going to do great damage is slander lol.
@@saskia6148There’s no such thing as a must pull, so I wouldn’t recommend any main DPS at all, it’s a matter of personal preference. Neuvillette is objectively the best one scaling-wise, but that doesn’t matter one bit - the current abyss can be cleared with any limited five star, without their respective best team, and even at extremely bad investment. This discussion is essentially pointless, especially considering that it only generates unnecessary hate & attracts basement dwellers like this other guy above. I mainly wanted to point out that comparing completely different characters is a worthless endeavour, nothing more to it.
@@vladdyru idk I feel like the entire point of this video is to have discussions like these - but also i can't see the other comment for some reason and now I'm super curious, could you tell me what it says?
A character you actually have to play, unlike neuv who is relatively speaking a baby handholder. I'll pick Ayaka and even Mistsplitter over him any day of the week
simp caught in 4k
@@satosoujirouwhat’s your point?
Ah so that’s why Ayaka has a gun now.
Since you mentioned Ayaka’s reliance on upgrades, I think this video lacks a comment on Ayaka’s performance at different levels of investment outside of freeze teams, specifically in situations like bosses. It’s night and day, many players say Ayaka is perfect for bosses and I agree… if you have tools like Shenhe, Misplitter or Kazuha, but without any of those or only one her monocryo or hypercarry performance in such scenarios drops down significantly compared to freeze AoE ones, to the point that other Ayaka teams like melt with Xiangling and hyperfridge do far better until you reach a certain threshold in terms of not only artifacts quality, but also upgrades like R1 or Shenhe. This is ridiculous if you think about how much those teams (melt, hyperfridge) are despised by the community, you often hear “Ayaka doesn’t work with melt”, “she performs the best in freeze and monocryo, everything else is just bad for her”… but this is simply not true if you can’t freeze and you lack certain upgrades. My very first Abyss clear was with Ayaka melt after trying other teams with her, and it took me a lot to comfortably clear a boss in F12 Abyss with Ayaka (and it was after getting Kazuha).
Same
With newer units being easier to play, I've started to notice that the design of 2.X units was never as player-friendly as people make it out to be. I agree that Ayaka is difficult to play, but I think even characters like Raiden and Itto, which are known to be easy to pilot, can get pretty strict with combos and timings when you decide to optimize their gameplay. Ayato would be the only exception here, really.
Regarding Ayaka, I remember that, after her first rerun (in 2.6 iirc?), the 2.7 Abyss came with lots of Cryo enemies. Things were never the same for her after that. I find it sad, since she was my first 5*, but without primo investment she's bound to be one of the worst performing teams in any account. And pulling that many 5* just to make her competitive isn't exactly appealing (farms for Mistplitter anyway).
why is Raiden there? Raiden is basically a powerhouse in her teams. easy to perform, hard to counter since Raiden National contains all types of elements to counter abyss. its an ungabunga team. just burst burst burst rotate and repeat xD -this is c0 anyway. if Raiden is on C2, man that's totally absurd. raiden hyper carry can deal easy 80-100k slashes on infusion. with initial hit of 400k++ (not crit fishing)
not to mention Raiden can be in hyperbloom teams xD
Yoimiya is the easiest to play among the 2.x characters, even more than Ayato.
@@lsnexus2080 That hasn't been my experience with my C0 Raiden lately, and it's not like I've invested less into her compared to my other characters. She just performs consistently worse, even if it's not as bad as Ayaka's case. And she's definitely not easier to manage than someone like Alhaitham. As I said, her combos have pretty strict timings. Failing to do a charged attack because her burst just ended is common with her. There's a reason why her 3N3C N1C combo that was usually recommended as her go to for most players no longer is.
@@untipocualquiera635 that's what you call skill issue.there's no strict rotations for raiden teams as long as you have good amount of investment specially if they are well built. all raiden needs to do is to continuously hit enemies and all your teams should get their burst back. Raiden national team should have burst nonstop. if you fail to do that then your builds are not really good. in every Raiden comps that has 250 - 270ER - you should already be able to battery your teams non stop. my xiangling has 240 ER with 241EM 165Cdamage and 60 critrate. bennett has 230ER with aquila favonia and XQ has 220ER with 65/170 ratio. i don't even need to do some crazy things. just burst burst burst before raiden starts her thing. even with just NA no CA can refill their burst nonstop. its Xiangling that has to do damage with XQ vaping 50k++ nonstop. XL and Raiden are additional damage. on top of it. players without skill issues has been continuously destroying abyss with that team.
@@lsnexus2080 It's not skill issue, you're not even responding to what I was saying. You keep bringing Rational up as if it was the pinnacle of Raiden teams. It's not. It is very easy to play, but it's in part because Raiden's damage is less impactful. You're punished less for making mistakes. The thing is you can play teams that are just as easy to play and not only have higher ST damage, but also infinitely better AoE. Or do we ignore Neuvillette, Alhaitham in Quickbloom, Yae in Aggravate or even Taser teams with Furina? These teams include on-field combos that are easy to do, have more flexible rotations and higher floor and ceiling. They reward investment more than Rational does.
Raiden's battery potential isn't all that. You can just bring better batteries instead. Those do exist, in fact. So you're left with her damage and, at C0, while good, it isn't giving her peers much competition. At the moment, her flexibility is her main claim to fame.
I got ayaka but her damage feels bad if you miss her burst or all attacks dont connect, then there's the issue of building her burst up again and what happens inbetween
You play freeze will fix your missing burst issue, playing with support that can use fav weapon will help her get ER
you build her with enough ER. 30 is minimum and add a support battery xD you shouldn't have issues if you build your characters well.
@@divinesan7786 that's not true, even in freeze sometimes enemies have high mobility but can't be grouped like the rifthound, it's so dependant on getting the right timing which makes you press the retry button. it's up to you tho, hope you still have your hair
@@shazaki1134 I literally don’t have any issue with the rifthound. And they automatically group to you so
Then learn positioning ?
People are so much focusing on her burst that they forget that her autos exist to make sure you can get enough time to group enemies .
Ayaka has a special place for me cause I started playing Genshin around 2.6 when we got the eternal ayaka banner. While she wasn't my first 5 star (I got Diluc in my pulls on the Noelle banner) she was the first 5 star I purposefully went for. I have built her "main" team with Shenhe, Kokomi, and Kazuha + built her well. I plan on getting Mistplitter eventually also. That being said it has been a little annoying playing her recently, could be a skill issue but she just doesn't feel as good to play as other characters right now. Hopefully something will happen that makes it a little better to play her in future Abyss cycles
Then we should bring Wenut back cause her team is the only one at that time who can clear it very easily as compared to other teams
Unfortunately the next abyss lineup seems like not designed for Ayaka. If the leak is true, then 3rd chamber first half is Hydro Tulpa, which pretty hard to kill even in overworld due to Kazuha unable to swirl cryo.
First chamber second half is Thunder Manifestation, a boss that move around, this is the only possible place to put Ayaka but, hyperbloom will be much smoother to play without waiting for boss to stand still.
Sad to see my fav character from 2.6 when I started playing and has been 36* since then (first 36* reached only after 135 days playing GI), my only C2 limited character, is very situational to use
@@andyzhang9110 That’s subjective
which part is subjective@@sentience3033
They made Inazuma characters to expensive to build and to have balanced damage, but with Fontaine they just went like whaterever just put a lot of damage so they can be built with whatever and they are good to go
they only went like that with neuvillette tho?
wriothesley & furina has some weird hp mechanics. lyney is a better ganyu but pyro. navia? is surely not gonna be at neuvi's level.
so nah they only did that to neuvillette.
@masrgym8355 no, it's definitely how they made fontaine. Alot of Fontaine characters can be more flexible in teams in terms of building and be consistant in dmg while not having to rely on super tight rotations like alot of inazuma characters. The hp mechanics are a buff to the characters and can be gained back using healers and their own skills.
@@nobody-xh6ii lyney with mono pyro tho 😭
It's not about being balanced, it's that abyss hp was less than half than post-dendro. The power of the dendro core
mostly thanks to cryo falling down in meta since freeze is mostly useless in abyss thanks to tons of bosses
Ayaka is strong enough to ignore any specific situation. Hasn't failed me yet
Not really lol. Most abysses she struggles to do one side. She's not that consistent in terms of clearing
Not when if u don't have very high investment both primo and artifact wise
Only if you have shenhe. Shenhe is basically carrying cryo as an element rn.
Can confirm. As a C4R1 Ayaya haver with her best team of Shenhe, Kokomi and Kazuha, she's still my go to for slapping anything that I feel too lazy to use something else. The damage is so good even against stuff that can't be frozen!
@@Laziotanot even lol. Only reason this one kinda sucks is cuz of pyro lectors but if you have a good boss build you can kill all of chamber 2 in one or two rotations.
i dont know, ayaka is still okay solely because of her infinite cryo infusion. but she still good in this abyss atleast because they expect us to play hydro and pyro in this version of abyss imo
Ayaka’s strength can really depend on the level of investment. Though for ayaka it’s much easier to stack crit damage because of blizzard strayer. For me, she’s strong enough to kill any non boss enemies in Abyss 12 in 5 seconds. That’s why I think she’s still top tier.
if strong enough to kill non boss enemies on f12 make character top tier, every character is toptier then lmao. even barbara bloom and amber melt pass abyss full star.
@@satosoujirou but not as fast as Ayaka's burst.
Oh dang, I can't believe I got featured in one of your videos! Keep up the good work.
Pretty much my thoughts on ayaka as well. Funnily enough i got blasted in zajeff daily's comment section for saying exactly this. People need to update their opinions on characters more often.
I have C2R1 ayaka, and i often just choose to run some quickbloom keqing team instead, or klee with furina. Not because ayaka is bad, she actually often clears much faster than my other teams, but because the inconsistency is annoying af, especially against garbage enemies like seahorse.
Ayaka rotation execution with Shenhe, Kazuha, Mona is almost exactly 12 seconds since from Shenhe E to Ayaka ultimate. That mean right after Ayaka using ultimate, you can swap to Shenhe and E again then swap to kazuha and E again to reapply all of their buff and effect. If you strip that, you lose the Shenhe E boosts for Ayaka ultimate which is a big multiplier with all of the other buff stuff the team has. The team is even more demanding of perfect execution than Childe national and relies on Prototype Amber Mona as the healing source (if you are casual and takes damage somehow). However the ceiling is still unmatched to this day and she is still the premium character for speed run along side Hutao. Ayaka, Hutao and Nilou are also operate in different team support entirely so speed runner never have issue overlapping these characters. My ayaka usually 1 rotation a boss when I planned well after some reset of the pattern. She is so well made and well balanced. If you get good you also get better reward for playing her.
Genshin player nowadays cater to more casual so the all the hard rotation is no more but only remains with the infinite up time but moderate buff and field damage.
My friend is an Ayaka main.
As a Nilou main I like to think that both of them are equally as good.
Just makes me feel nice
I feel like i haven't seen anyone bring up that she might be really useful in the schneznaya meta eventually
As someone without a Kazuha, I can confirm she relies on him ALOT
I really don't think she's that much worse than she used to be, but admittedly I haven't been paying much attention lol.
Lately "Meta" has come to mean "most recent tactic available" rather than "most effective tactic available." Alot of these older units/teams from before Dendro still work, but people have mainly focused on Dendro and the HP manipulation characters Fontaine has brought and with good reason; they're what's on rateup right now.
9:27
Well since you showed this (debatably infamous 😋) tier list, how about a new video on Raiden since she will rerun soon too. I see Raiden is put in the highest tier, but only at C2, and as a MainDps.
So how much value does c0 Raiden bring to a f2p account? Ive got Kuki and Ive got Childe, so both hyperbloom and national are covered for me. What else can a c0 Raiden provide?
If you got Kuki? Raiden's value is 0. She's not a real character until C2 sadly.
I agree on everything but I'm a simple person: I like Freeze, I play Ayaka, she slaps.
People forget that abyss is literally fixed to promote character pulls. Ayaka will return to dominance whenever Hoyo wants to sell Ayaka. It’s that simple. For all Neuvilette’s strength he’ll be little more than a teapot ornament if Hoyo brings chambers with hydro immunity on both sides.
Have they ever done that? Placing enemies with immune to certain element to both sides of abyss. I doubt it, and why would they even do that
yea lol that would be insane. I cannot imagine them ever doing something like that
Abyss 4.3 so far doesn't looks good for her imo
This sounds like the silliest objection. Hoyo does not introduce hard counters like that, they simply make soft counters to incentivize you into playing the newer meta characters. And from looking at the past Neuvillette seems like he will be good for another region after Fontaine before Hoyo will promote a team that can handle newly designed enemies and mechanics better than him.
Ayaka's dominance? It is a thing of the past, she will only resurge in some usage rate clinging on to the abyss that Hoyo creates to sell their next cryo characters.
Yeah except that actual top tier characters dont need abyss to be designed just for them to be good (Neuv, Haitham, even Xiangling). Ayaka is just a niche character nowaday: heavily rely on abyss matchups to be at least "decent", and even then her premium full limited 5-star teams cant compete with f2p Neuv and Haitham teams. And before ppl brought up "c4r1 Ayaka c61 Shenhe" into this, Neuv teams and Haitham teams also have much higher and better ceiling with more investments too (c2+ Nahida, c2+ Furina etc).
Basically, be a slave to Alhaitham and Neuvillette. I have both and both are benched. I now prefer to use Tighnari's team and whatever I can do without those two. Neuvillette has one of the most boring and anticlimatic gameplay aka charge and rotate. Alhaitham is good but it gets boring to play with him. They are strong but where's the fun in all of this?
I considered getting Ayaka because I want a freeze team buuuut I'm going to feed my queen Raiden with c2 instead. I just wished that Ayaka was good with hyperfridge because I really like hyperfriedge.
It's getting tiring all these "not worthy when you have Alhaitham and Neuvillette".
Lol same I have both and I clear abyss with childe on one half and cyno on the other always will since those are my fav ones and honestly speaking meta wise too childe international is comparable to neuvill and cyno with furina baizhu can compete with alhaitham in single targets specifically so yea just play with fav chars
It's a repeating cycle. Ayaka was at top in past and she also was described as anticlimatic braindead and boring because she was too strong. Just wait until wait for natlan and nuev will be the underdog 😂
Agreed 100%, the idea of comparing literally any unit to Alhaitham & Neuvillette is ridiculous. Like yes, they have better scalings than the majority of this game's characters. But so what? Why is that information treated as some kind of forbidden knowledge? Is there like a literal ban on pulling anyone but them now, and if you don't abide by that, you get banned from the Mickey Mouse Club? Actual delusion, man.
This isn't "Who's the most fun character/gameplay" but "Who's the meta". Mathematics back it up. If you're doing great with Tighnari and whatever then enjoy it because you're clearly already know what you're doing. From a META (Most Efficient Tactic Available) perspective, it's not worth your time and investment right now. Sure maybe in the future it will be but that's the future, not right now.
As for fun, yeah I enjoy Ayaka a lot and one of my go to characters in the abyss because it matches my play style. Same as mono geo with Noelle as the carry. Those play styles are fun to me but maybe for you it isn't and that's okay. Charged attack focus characters like Ganyu, Tighnari and Lyney aren't fun for me. Since you like Tighnari then it's fun for you and it's okay to keep enjoying it. No need to seek validation and just disagree with this video because you don't want to be a slave with Al Haitham and Neuvillette.
@@pyronado4320alhaitham has been out for a year now and he's still meta so what's your point? so does hutao & childe international.
As a f2p, Ayaka can feel pretty underwhelming. Not being able to reach the damage threshold feels really bad. Hence why i like the furina team more, i definitely feel its more f2p friendly and casual friendly than her pre-furina premium nuke teams
How much dmg is your ayaka doing bc she easily has 1 million dmg rotations even with an ftp weapon?
@@sanadye1861 thats with shenhe kazuha and kokomi/mona, without one of them her dmg goes down by 130k each,
And also 1M dpr is trash for having an all 5 star team
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz Bad? A 1 million burst rotation clears everything outside of bosses but she has a boss variant team that does more damage than that. Your team comp you said can easily reach a 2 million damage rotation. C0r1 Ayaka with shenhe, Mona/koko/c2 furina, and kazu comfortably hits between 50-60k ticks and this isn’t even accounting her 100k+ charged attacks and 60-80k skills. Her burst alone is 1 million plus, use the rest of her kit and she becomes a menace. A c2 ayaka melt boss comp when the 3 hit idc functions properly works can go up to a 3-5 million rotation depending on investment. She’s still extremely strong dps and just because cryo isn’t as desirable rn doesn’t take away from the insane dmg capabilities she has.
@@sanadye1861 c2 furina lul imagine needing c2 furina, kazuha, shenhe and mistsplitter just to deal 1M dpr,
also u arent gonna be charge atking on ayaka much since you will spend her downtime batterying her and 3M dpr is massive stretch the most she does is 1.2M
@@sanadye1861 also u r delusional if u think ayaka can do 100k CA, she does 40k at most and the buffs will run out soon after
I've been LOVING your drawings in recent videos - they are hilarious and actually really helpful at the same time!
Cryo never fell off, it was always "just fine", the best cryo characters has been Kaeya only at C6 and only between 1.0 and 1.3, on 1.4 Rosaria was better Kaeya but its a role you dont really value in a teamcomp, but she could carry Melt playstyle for a little more, then we got Ayaka on 2.0 but she didnt bloom until 2.4 with Shenhe and they both are tailored together since then, but the output of the team was very equal at that time with other good teams, the impact was only that she was Burst focused so you see more big number in little time window, and cryo stoped get any improvement until Wriothesley that is in some way another Ayaka but you change Frontload DMG for Sustained DMG what synergize better with more modern units and playstyles, he can carry melt better and all but his output is just fine too, nothing have powercreeped Cryo itself for a while, and it haven't changed playtyles too much neither, Cryo need more tailored units for specific gameplays with good upsides and downsides, is just has been a very plain element for a while
prepare for Snezhnaya :)
Bro forgot about Ganyu. For over a year after she was released the game was basically Ganyu impact. Even if you don't like her playstyle you had to admit she was absolutely one of the strongest carries in the game for a good amount of time.
@@saskia6148 oh true mb there, she was good bc of the abyss lineup only and bc Venti was snergystic with her both for lineup and burst similarities, the moment venti died on 2.0 also did she died with it, and they released a more synergystic cryo carry at the same time on 2.0, while ganyu freeze was never actually over the line by herself but due to what happen around her (venti, abyss lineup, lower HP cealing of enemies that were also easier to kill for her), melt also existed with moderate impact, but also a DMG output in line with other options at the time, same as Ayaka. she was never "one of the strongest carries" but she was part of "one of the best teamcomps" for a while context changed for Ganyu/Venti and she deflated harder than Ayaka.
I was hoping Ayaka would demolish Fontaine mobs and bosses since it's the nation of Hydro where she should spam perma-freeze and win.
But NOPE -
What are you even struggling with? Most Fontaine enemies aren’t even freeze-resistant. Only the local legends are, but they have an actual hydro aura. If you can’t even freeze them, then I can only assume that you haven’t discovered the buttons which activate the characters’ skills & bursts, you should probably work on that.
@@vladdyru You just mentioned the mobs that has freeze resistance, Dendro easily kills any legends in Fontaine while Ayaka struggles
Good review, I have C0 Ayaka R3 Jade, but sadly she's replaced by C1 R1 Rizzley boy :)
Like, in terms of investment, ayaka r1 shenhe kokomi kazuha is just as expensive as cyno r1 nahida furina baizhu. Not the best thing to compare ayaka with cyno, but the meta changed definitely
o.o? Ayaka still op. Fontaines enemys are so darn easy to beat with her lol
Mine use just a perfect(means no useless substats)gladiator set and Jade Sword. Both no dupes upgrades.
I pick alot Ayaka if I want to beat most world bosses or annoying enemys quick.
As a long time Ayaka enjoyer I have to say she is absolutely amazing in farming domains, exploring and slaying in the abyss, provided there are no cryo resistant mobs. And this is the main isssue - lately, there are many cryo resistant mobs in the abyss.
Also regarding missing her burst. Honestly? It's not that difficult NOT to miss it. Like seriously, I if this is the thing that prevents you from pulling you can safely stop worring about it.
I have Shenhe but at the moment my favourite Ayaka team is with Furina, Kokomi and Kazuha - absolutely slaying.
I dont have kazuha but want to pull ayaka. Is she too reliant on kazuha? My only cc is sucrose, at c0.
I was using Jean for the longest time, if you know how to manipulate enemies so they group themself it's not so bad@@Sable813
@@Sable813 Sucrose is fine, she just needs a bit more skill to group up the enemies which Ayaka appreciates. Kazuha is like an easy one whoosh and done kinda guy.
@@Sable813 without kazuha is fine. but you'd want shenhe if you want good team. Shenhe makes any cryo strong. don't listen to clowns saying you need blablabla and premium team to do good. any teams needs a certain comps. a lot of them uses 5stars too. specially kazuha and archons having a total of 3 5star in a team. all 5star at times. for example, my current team for Hutao is HuTao Yelan Furina Jean - all 5stars. even other dendro 5stars. main dps of 5star + nahida and probably baizu.
Honestly though, maybe it's just my luck but I experienced so many instances where her burst misses. I have triple crowned C0R1 Ayaka, but it's so easy lose a lot of damage because either: 1) unfreezable boss enemies moves/dodges, or 2) cluster of mobs are not grouped enough. Given that her damage falls off after her burst, it's really frustrating.
Oh how mighty have fallen. Abyss contain more and more bosses and some enemies resist freezing. When it works it works, but if not its not only inefficient but also boring to play freeze
Correction: Ayaka only gets 55% CritRate for Free in *Freeze* teams ;).
CritRate weapons are great for her in Melt or Mono-Cryo comps.
I will pull for Ayaka because then she'll be C4
:D
The thing with Ayaka is that one of the only characters that use all of her kit, you can use burst, people don’t talk about her skill but she does 100 -150k hits sometimes and her normal attack being infused with cryo make her so fun to play, but I must agree if you want a most simple and powerful unit then go for neuvillete
those people probably did not pull for Shenhe wherein all teams in genshin needs certain team comp. some of them even uses 5star supports. some ven use all 5star team.
@@lsnexus2080 yeah, that’s why I said always focus on the characters you like and their best teams, don’t pull like crazy and save for constellations, cuz is funny some people on videos says for example Ayaka is expensive, but at the same time they tell you Alhaitham good dps and cyno good dps (skipping the part you need full 5 supports as well), Ayaka on F2P can do 30k ticks, while in premium teams can go to 60k ticks, Neuvillete is good, but people need to realise that current abyss is hydro favoured, I solod it with furina
@@nunaneto yep they failed to realize that other teams also have premium teams xD and abyss keeps changing. its not like an element is falling off. more of the how abyss floors favors the element(depending on what banner we have)
@@lsnexus2080 yup current abyss is always related to current characters, when natlan comes it will be for pyro, when cryo archon comes it will be for cryo
@@lsnexus2080 Honestly I lost 2 50/50 early pity on Alhaitham banners. I like him but not enough to spend everything and grind for him.
But the thing is I can't get one copy of Kuki and she is on his best team.
Even now I don't want Cyno and Ayato. I al garantee so I want to spend my garantee on a 5 stars I want.
So I can say, it can be even worse to get Alhaitham best team.
Nah, Ayaka is GOATed and beautiful.
Lol, what is that tier list? Sara is better than Sucrose? On what planet?
Yoo TGS, is that Aquatic Ambience from Donkey Kong in the background?
Yes
hmmm… ayaka is still very good. i don’t get why so many are saying she’s bad or something. 🤔
She is only top tier in very high investiments, if you have her with 4 star weapon, no Shenhe etc the damage diff will be HUGE, very low F2P potential on this character, and most of the negative commentes about her are very accurate
Lie.
I actually benched Neuvillette a few days after I was done building him specifically because he's just too simple and too strong for my liking. Ayaka requiring strategy and positioning makes her way more interesting to play imo. That said, I understand why from a performance and comfort standpoint most people would prefer more modern carries over her.
I still use her and never stopped using her in abyss 😂 now after Furina she's more fun to play
She nowhere fell off but enemies now have too many varieties and some need specific type of characters to be defeated in time.
I didnt pull Shenhe to play with Ayaka, i pulled Ayaka to be able to play Shenhe)))
Do u think Venti would be the best Archon if he could group and float large enemies?
If he could at least pull them for sure. Imagine if he could cc anything that isn't a boss
Ayaka needs some effort to play and some investment. Landing a full burst is a really satisfying moment in recent abyss cycles. I play her often but it's a reset fiesta and I can't really recommend her nowadays to new players.
Ayaka won't be making a comeback with freeze, melt, or mono-cryo teams. Freeze and mono-cryo are unreliable by nature and Ayaka has no synergy with melt teams whether forward or reverse. The chance of her becoming a burst sub dps for a future superconduct team is unlikely, but its at least not impossible. The most plausible resurgence for Ayaka is she ends up working well somehow with a new element in a few years.
I’m pretty biased when it comes to her because she literally carried me for three years straight even when some bosses weren’t freezable. Of course, it’s been harder and harder nowadays to use her but she’s still good, to me
Fell, but can brute force content even if it is not frozen.
Edit: 4:41 this is important
If you consider ceiling, how would a C6 Furina, Shenhe, and Kazuha team perform? Wouldn't that be a higher cap than Thrilling Tales Kokomi?
No one cares about C6 teams as they are all beyond broken and far outpace any content Genshin has
@@Forakus, that's why content creators release C6 showcases, right? Because no one cares. Get over yourself. There are many opinions in this world beyond your own.
The gen 4 night pokemon center theme was goated for the intro
I would like to see a "underrated characters in terms of meta" tier list from theorycrafter's perspective.
I think she's got a lot of use and I don't regret pulling for her ... but I admin, I've never bothered to finalise her artifacts and though levelled and equipped, by the smith, I've never actually used her outside event trials.
I just kept using Mona.
I want her cons BUT after playing Genshin for a year, I am picking up on how strong supports cons are over main/hypers cons. AKA Furina, Yelan, Shenhe, Raiden (battery wise) I know the Tsaritsa will be here in like 2 years, which is a ways off, and maybe I will change my mind about Ayaka's cons, but I see Shenhe's cons more valuable than Ayaka's for future Cryo carries, especially the Cryo Archon. Looking at Ayaka's cons, like c1, c2, you would have to have Shenhe's c1 at least because her c2 will eat Shenhe's icy quills at c0 quick. Plus Shenhe gives Ayaka 15% CD on her burst at c2. Yes Ayaka's c2 gives more tics on her mini Snowstorms, BUT Shenhe's cons buffing that would make it even stronger. Maybe I will feel comfortable pulling cons on Ayaka once I have more on Shenhe, but Shenhe to me is future proof, considering we haven't made it to the land of Cryo yet. IMO, I often wonder if thats why HoYo gave us Ayaka and Hu Tao, two very strong carries, early on because their visions' nations were so far off? IDK just a theory. Regardless, I love Ayaka. Freeze is my favorite team comp because I LOVE crowd control. We'll see what happens, for now at least, I am waiting for Shenhe's cons 1st. ty 4 the vid!
Just get C6 Shenhe and then normal/charge attacking on Ayaka feels godly xdd
U guys remember when tenten gave Ayaka a 4/5 pull ranting?
Ayaka is one thing ayaka with shen is a completely different monster
this is because other players didn't invest in shenhe :) cryo mains have shenhe for sure.
Still weaker than any f2p alhaitham or neuv or hutao
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz different element though. and yes its comparable not weaker. out of 3, alhaitham hyperbloom will be weakest against a boss (this is ofc high investment teams that has been playing since day 1) HuTao being the strongest on single target. Ayaka stands at the middle ground. on AOE, if enemies can be grouped and you know what you are doing, Ayaka will clear fastest against these 3. otherwise you're not playing long enough as an end game player. a good Ayaka mains have been hitting 50-60k per tick of her burst and can spam her burst over and over. (this is with shenhe and Mistsplitter with a bit of ER and high crit damage). if you factor in constellations then it will be even worst. that cryo comp will surpass alhaitham and hutao teams. that Shenhe Ayaka combo is just deleting anything without burst.
@@lsnexus2080 lol alhaitham destroys hutao or ayaka even with 3star weap at c0, mine already hits for 50k per spread on a special 2-hit icd, while having hyperblooms to back him up,
Also 55k per tick fully buffed ayaka is not out dmging alhaitham or hu tao lmao and shenhe buffs run out after 5-10 hits depending on if u know how to use her so after 10 hits your dmg buff is halved.
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz im not talking about 3star weapon but 5star weapon. again i'm not talking about low investment teams. HuTao is not better for AOE and AL isn't either.you probably only rely on dendro comps because your teams haven't been fully invested. and yes that 50k is not Shenhe's icyquills. that's her average with high invested ayaka. your ayaka must be weak then. you should see ayaka players doing 50k consistently with shenhe's burst, kazuha and kokomi if your team has good investment.
and yes it can outdamage AL since AL's damage takes longer time than Ayaka who dealt 20hits of burst in 5s. also against boss AL wouln't be clearing faster. its HuTao who wins in ST. or are you talking about AL with C2 Nahida? then ofc that team will be better xD there's no archon yet to support cryo comps as of the moment. we will have to wait for Cryo archon and see how Cryo will do again if you are comparing with C2 Nahida ofc. and i repeat, dendro comps are good for low investment characters. but the same thing cannot be said for high investment teams. factoring constellations way up to C6 then AL will even get destroyed with AYA Shenhe combo. -we've seen every speedruns for this and always has been a thing
grouping is kinda a need in ayaka teams or she falls of quite a bit ( except bosses)
Game is easy anyway what makes a char bad is how clunky it is
who knew the character with the simplest kit requires the most strategy
All i understood was: Dont pull ayaka, pull for raiden c2 and chev
lmao
Bruh
Still clearing every Abyss with her. Don't pull for her if she's gonna be one of your 5 carries. She requires investment. A lot of it.
On another note, Is she "now competing with Neuvillette and Alhaitham"? Seriously? For what? It's like saying that F1 pilots are competing on who can finish a lap in less than 30 minutes. There's no "competing" for anything in this game, except competing for attention.
I know Ayaka is strong, but even back then I have so much difficulty using her to the point where my "non-meta" units are clearing the abyss faster than her. Her playstyle is clunky, slow, and requires a lot of steps. Her best teams usually doesn't have strong shielder which leaves her vulnerable to knockback. And in single target, her burst can easily miss unfreezable boss enemies if they move, or even in AoE it can miss a huge portion of the enemies despite being frozen, which becomes really frustrating and not fun to me at all.
Strange thing is there is lots is solo Ayaka vs Kenki video .
I think it’s more like playstyle issue from your side .
Well not that everyone can play Ayaka . It’s what x character mains are there .
@@sentience3033 only with mistsplitter and 1min clear on otherside, try it on abyss with amenoma you will need 4-5 bursts
I’ve considered pulling her, but I fear not using her because the abyss doesn’t favor her. I’ve had a similar situation with Ganyu, but Ganyu has been a really good sub dps for Furina double hydro. Ayaka can’t really be played as sub dps so I struggle to justify pulling for a slightly stronger freeze character.
Considering all the crazy c0 r1 speedruns that feature her in this abyss I think she’d be fine
Been using mono cryo Shenhe/ayaka since Shenhe first release. Mostly always on the second half they are boss slayers. Can always 36 star. Layla/ Kazuha/Shenhe/ayaka I think is the most all around strongest Ayaka team works for mobs and bosses. Layla shield allow you to do a lot more Ayaka charge attacks without interruption. Lmao I even managed to use them against the cryo resistant boss in recent abyss ( got c2 r1 from reruns )
Hey man, great vid
A question, if you had to choose between Mistsplitter and engulfing for the upcoming patch, for someone who has, Ayaka, Shenhe and Raiden C2, which one would you choose?
Can you do a video about vermillion artifact and furina? If that interaction works
Edit: no I'm not asking about xiao lmaoo.
The interaction works as far as I know, the issue is there isn't a reason to use it over Marechausse, especially with how much lower value the vermillion domain is since it's a worse set and echoes is also a generally bad set. Strongbox wise you'll nearly always be better off getting Virdescent, emblem, or specific dps sets like crimson witch or Blizzard strayer. The atk on Vermillion is less valuable than the damage % and crit on Marechaussue and Vermillion requires the character to start the rotation with burst.
Is this Zy0x burner account??
@twigz3214 look I don't care about resin efficiency or all that. I'm just wondering what characters are good with it not named xiao not that furina is here
@@adeekfaizal5068 I don't think any on-fielder that could use the attack want to start with burst. Alhaithamn starts with burst but heavily prefers em, dmg% and crit and you could probably make it work on Raiden but doubt it would be better than Emblem. Ayato and Cyno could both also make it work but highly prefer Marechausse, and Ayato doesn't have much synergy with Furina anyway.
LAMENT
My question is - at C0 zero and a 4 star weapon, whose DPS is higher, Ayaka or Navia?
I've always wanted Ayaka, but Navia just looks so cool.
depends on a team but my c0 ayaka with r5 inazuma sword does around 12k ticks unbuffed and it goes upto 44k with buffs. I use her premium team and she does enough damage to clear worst abyss like wenut one.
It depends. Ayaka needs at least 2-3 other 5 stars characters. Navia needs no other 5 stars to do her damage.
i would say xiangling...
what was the question again?
Probably Navia, her damage is more independent (doesn't rely a lot on supports) and she's more flexible with teambuilding
the worst thing is she also fell off at ceiling investment cos c6 shenhe buffs c6 wrio more esp when he can melt
wrio is the strongest c6 cryo as of the moment. but only 1% have him at c6.at c0 Ganyu and ayaka are both stronger than wrio. but sure if you are playing C6 level. though for c6 players that doesn't really mean a lot due to C6 characters are way powerful for the game to handle. even a C6 dehya can beat the hardest content anyday. this is why those meta usually is being focused around c0 teams.
@@lsnexus2080 all calc ive seen is wrio 10k dps higher than ayaka ganyu, plus veryyy ez to play. idk what feelscrafting u follow.
Nowadays her value lies in the massive amount of cryo ticks she deals.
it erases hydro and electro shields and still works to a lesser degree against pyro shields.
she's the natural predator of hydro heralds.
Shield breaking is really the only justification I have to make getting her not feel like a total waste. I wish she was made electro instead. She would be a ridiculous aggravate dps.
@@Elrog3 its not just justification. strong ayaka players also have damage. this is because of shenhe's existence. and the more you are invested in cryo teams, the more they are deadly. and we will have Snezhnaya soon FYI
@@lsnexus2080 That damage is contingent on having specific enemies and it drops off massively for some others. Its just not worth investing in on its own. There's is no elemental shielded or elemental immune enemy that an electro-charged or aggravate team can't do decently against. But freeze and mono cryo hit a wall against a cryo shield. Its a luxury team composition, not something to rely on.
Snezhnaya is more likely to give Ayaka more competition than to boost her.
@@Elrog3 usually archon buffs other characters as well so she gets buff at the same time even if there are better ones. and powercreep only is at C6 lately. Wrio at C0 is not better than ayaka C0 fyi. if i have to play melt, then Ganyu melt is powerful than Wrio melt. the key there is having Shenhe for damage. but against shields, Cryo only shreds if you know what you are doing. Kazuha needs to be infused with Shenhe's burst add in Ayaka wherein the 3 hit rule of element in ICD should be applied. Dendro against shields is easier. so if shields are your concern then sure play other teams.this can be applied in any element anyway. like who in the right way would use a cryo to cryo? or even pyro to pyro. its always a counter element. as far as damage is concerned, Ayaka is fine. a premium team can deal 50-60k each tick ofc where her ult is 20 ticks in 5sec.
now its not like dendro comps are way better, dendro comps are just better at low investments. this is why team comps against a boss where hutao and ayaka can beat enemies faster than hyperbloom comps for high investment teams. i'm not talking about new players ofc since the majority players are OLD players. new players wouldn't even touch abyss floors anyway. also electro charge and aggrevate is not effective in cryo shields. that's one.
abyss keeps changing. elements did not fall but rather it depends on what type of abyss we have. its not like the game is hard. its way too easy tbh where theorycrafting doesn't even matter any longer.
@@lsnexus2080 "usually archon buffs other characters as well so she gets buff at the same time even if there are better ones."
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A boost only matters when it is compared against what other characters do and what the abyss dmg requirement has been inflated to. Its very unlikely Snezhnaya characters are going to boost Ayaka's place in the meta.
"and powercreep only is at C6 lately."
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That's definitely not true. Furina is the strongest c2 character in the game. Nuevillette did not raise the ceiling for single target damage, but he did bring down the skill level required to do a good amount of damage and he brought up the potential for aoe damage.
"Dendro against shields is easier."
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Uh, ok? Dendro is hardly the most notable shield breaking element. Electro, Pyro, and Hydro all are better off than it. Dendro just happens to counter the shields that electro (the most versatile shield breaking element) misses while also having a good reaction with electro so your team damage doesn't suffer for trying to get shield breaking (in the way that it would if you try to pair cryo with electro).
"like who in the right way would use a cryo to cryo?"
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You missed the point. Who in their right mind would build a team that requires you to build other teams to handle its weaknesses when you can build other teams that just don't have glaring weaknesses? I understand players that starting a long time ago having built up these characters. But for newer players (post dendro) it doesn't make sense.
"also electro charge and aggrevate is not effective in cryo shields. that's one."
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Both of those team archetypes typically use two electro characters. Electro characters break cryo shields. They are effective against cryo shields. They just aren't the most effective against cryo shields.
"its way too easy tbh where theorycrafting doesn't even matter any longer."
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If you have a well built account after playing for a long time, sure. Not everyone is there.
If only her burst had a slight turn rate homing feature to it, she would be way better.
Ok! An advice from AR60 player if you are veteran or new to the game don't make a mistake of going for characters you don't actually want because they are in meta just pull who you want the most all characters are good i don't have ayaka but i am pulling for her cause I don't give a shit about what people say about her if she is still in meta or not, if there are better dps or not she is cute i always wanted her from the movement she was released and my Raiden and hu tao can clap abyss i also pulled for few characters at the beginning just for that meta and damage and THEY ARE ROTTING IN MY CHARACTER LIST I NEVER USE THEM just go for ayaka if you actually want her because of her looks or playstyle.
make a comparison video of Ayaka vs Wriothsley (maybe include c1 comparisons) please!!!
There is. Ayaka is strong at c0 but the problem still is what is explained. She has no flexibility. The moment you miss any enemies or the burst as a whole you've lost alot of dmg potential. Not to mention her high ER% requirements. Wriothesley Is more flexible in team comps, consistant dmg and has easier time gaining his burst back even for freeze team reactions. He surpasses ayaka at c1.
I think the biggest problem with Ayaka is strangely enough.. Shenhe. For a character that was meant to really help her, she actually doesn't do very much in practice.
for real unless you have her c1 that's still just half of the entirety of ayaka's burst tick, funny how even variations of ganyu's best team doesn't even require shenhe
Cryo will rise again in Snezhnaya.
truly a genshin character of all time
Aware
i sadly got her like ten minutes ago
im still sad i won two 50/50 in a row and shes now c1
Shes gonna be the last abyss team i build, but when i do, would usung LoFI for the insane crit damage substat be equal to or better than R5 Amenoma Kageuchi? Of course thats only if im not using Alhaitham in that abyss fir whatever reason
lofi passive is useless and it has low base atk so stacking too much crit dmg will diminish quickly, while amenoma r5 is equivalent to about 40% er at 2 stacks so it's always better and finale of the deep is even higher
Lofi is better than amenoma by a decent margin but you'd have to adjust your build ofc since you lose the energy passive.
pretty sure your alhaitham won't be having his vacation next abyss yet.
@@masrgym8355 well I still can't 36 star abyss and I'm building a Hu Tao team, a Freminet team, and then an Ayaka team so it's fine
I even prefer Rizzley nowadays if i want to do cryo stuffs because he is just much easier to use. Just ora ora😊
Is it true that genshin devs will give a free ayaka just like how hsr devs will give a free Dr. Ratio (+free 10pulls)? Or is genshin really that greedy?
9:18 what? I have found it to be the exaxt opposite in my play. Where if I don't want to bother learning an emeies attack patterns i just freeze them. (Concentrated beasts abyss is a good example). There are so many enemies that i just don't know the attack patterns for because freeze. I know that abyss has a lot of bosses but a well built ayaka can just nuke them. I'm just confused on how you consider a freeze unit to not be braindead
Not quite equal as everyone always rejected Keqing for Ayaka only. Along with the next patch (4.3) featuring Ayaka visiting Fontaine to making a new shows
I've seen some niche builds for Ayaka with emblem and I kind of want to do that because I mainly only use ayaka against bosses so the 4pc blizzard is kinda wasted
ayaka was my first limited 5 star, and as a f2p with a pretty good ayaka and no shenhe and mistsplitter, ive been able to clear most abysses with some form of aoe with her just fine. however, gotta emphasize what you said abt skill expression. with ayaka, especially in this 4.2 abyss, i have to actively think abt grouping the enemies, and the wolves can be a real pain. i also have to not accidently infuse kazuha's burst with pyro, or it'll mess up my freezes and the enemies will ungroup. i personally like this skill expression, i find thinking abt whether or not to burst more engaging than doing the same rotation over and over. also, it's really satisfying when her burst just obliderates everything. but yeah, def not a must pull
How much damage loss is if I am not using ShenheC0+CalamityR1 and using GanyuC2+AquaR1 instead? I have noticed Ganyu C2 is good for energy (coping)
The real question is how much of a dmg loss not using fav on shenhe is
honestly not an issue because even my f2p ayaka with a well built rosaria can do abyss quite easily for freeze chambers
@@mickysaif I have wanderer c6 so idc about spiral abyss much... I just wanted to know damage loss
@@molinj.7174 I don't think so there is dmg loss if artifacts are good
Ayaka isnt a top tier Meta DPS anymore but she is still plenty strong.
As a freshly new owner of C0R1 Ayaya I can confirm she's still pretty good if you want her to be.
After calculating my ayaka damage I can say
Mitsplitter- 100%
Jade cutter - 93%
Finale of the deep (R5) - 91%
Amenoma (R5) - 80%
With furina, kazuha and Charlotte And R5 finale of deep one burst hits around 560k. Remember this is not speed running and without any external buffs just FREEZE.