Why Kieran Doesn't Deserve his Bad Rep
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- #pokemonscarletandviolet #kieran
Kieran gets a bad rep for acting entitled, acting like a crybaby, trying to take Ogerpon's choice of trainer away from her, and trying to steal the Terapagos away from us.
But people honestly need to look at the story from 'his' perspective, and understand, that there is 'reason' behind him and his actions. There is more to him then what meets the eyes.
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The one thing Carmine had right, is how Kieran is just lost in teen angst. He started with good intentions, he wanted to become stronger to the point people rely on him, that's a lovely sentiment! Just like his sister, he gets lost on how to get there. Carmine is far too harsh, even shrugging off her grandpa's scolding for being mean to Kieran, so he wasn't in the best place mentally just from depending exclusively her. Then he meet us, and he is delighted to see! At the begining he must have felt that we being his age meant all he wanted was achievable! He puts the effort! But it doesn't payout, he doesn't even recognize his crits or better type match ups against us until he is at the snapping point.
After being lied, had the two closest people to him be doing stuff for Ogerpon behind him because "he wouldn't handle well", and being used to Carmine mocking him, no surprised he snaped, he had one, single, good day with a friend that didn't mistreat him, and the next one this friend is with Carmine and her words are even more biting. That doesn't excuse how he proceeded to mistreat the league club, but certainly explains. We and Carmine just shattered his faith in humanity, he was giving back in kind to all now.
Overall, we don't talk enough how he came around very well! The moment he saw he put the group in danger, enabled by Briar (proving she shouldn't be a teacher), he was stunned, understandably, Terapagos aimed for his head! Then he faced the worst of his insecurities, remembered he wanted to be dependable and stepped up to it. I was proud of him! He didn't even pointed fingers. Overall Kieran is a example of what even a good teen can become under poor treatment, and how that doesn't make them unredeemable.
Indeed, Kieran was a good kid at heart with a great goal, but what eventually motivated him to become the strong trainer he desired to be was essentially betrayal and rejection. No-one was there for him when he needed it which resulted in him going crazy and obsessing over strength, and if him rising to the prestigious rank of champion in such a short time is any indication he’s always had insane potential and hidden strength that wasn’t fostered in a healthy environment causing him to lash out at everyone and stop properly taking care of himself
*THIS!* This has been my ultimate defense for Kieran for the longest time now! Yes he fucked up, yes he was a complete yandere for Ogerpon, but who's really the root source of it all? Who's been the one cultivating the weeds? Who was the one who caused him to be so emotionally shut in to the point where it only took one bad week of her astonishingly piss-poor decisions to make him snap?
*FREAKING CARMINE!*
@@ProfessionalNamielleLewder69 Did the ‘‘I was kind! it's not like I hit him or anything’’ line not raise red flags for some people?
@ I mean, that’s just sibling stuff. But yeah, she was far too overprotective and hostile, which she learns at the end of the DLC.
@ Read that line, and all I wanted to do was smack Carmine, and bring Kieran back to tell him the truth
As someone who was basically a sociopath during my teenage years myself I relate to Kieran. The way he reacted to all these events is simply human nature and doesn’t mean he’s irredeemable
I mean heck he’s working for redemption by the end of the game realizing what he’d been doing has wrong
Nah sociopaths can be seemingly do some redeeming stuffs.Part of their manipulations tactics. Because thats what they do. I will never ever trust them because they can switch just like that and do some crazy stuffs.
There's a reason sociopaths should be avoided in society once they're outed.
A kid being a little rude and edgy has absolutely nothing to do with sociopathy, lmfao
That’s called acting sociopathic, not being a sociopath.
Nah not the way the replies are treating sociopathy like "The Evil Disorder" c'mon now.
I have a friend who absolutely despises Kieran and keeps insisting that he's a terrible and bratty edge lord.
The moment I saw this video, I sent it to them.
Kieran may be acting like an edge lord, but that doesn't mean he IS one. The boy was having a full-on mental crisis that we accidentally sent him down.
I'm glad he gets better at the end of Indigo Disk, and he's shown he's doing better during the epilogue.
I ADORE Kieran. I havent even watched this video fully yet I'll edit my comment when I do- but Kieran deserved to be understood way more. I dont understand how people can't see the things that caused him to get so upset and have his mental health decline the way it did.
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finally someone who looks at Kieran PROPERLY. I dont get it people hating him screaming that he's a psycho, selfish, school shooter vibes. I was EXACTLY like Kieran as a teenager. I know how he feels. and of course I wouldnt act like that NOW as a 27 year old but that doesnt change that I relate to him heavily. I swear people dont remember being a teenager. if pokemon was real, and I was his age, and I lost my only friend I just made/crush, sister and the only pokemon I felt I related to in like 3 days I would snap too. Kieran just wanted to prove he could do things for himself, and wanted to feel IMPORTANT to others, mainly the player. he started to feel like if he couldnt beat us, he was nothing. the lack of choice in this story infuriated me bc I know the turning points and how if things where done differently, Kieran would have been very different by the end of part 1. something that REALLY bothers me, is when you see Ogerpon in part 1, the cut scene ends and you can actually turn back to talk to Kieran. so WHY couldnt we tell him? PC is written/forced in this story to be a jerk. WE are the jerk rival. not Kieran. I wanted to hug him so badly, I wanted to tell him I saw Ogerpon, wanted to tell him when Carmine tells us to shut up, wanted to tell him outside peaches, wanted to have HIM with me getting the masks ect. the lack of choice was the first time I truely felt heart break from a pokemon game. like yeah im a softy, and I cried for Bede when he got disqualified from the league. but this doesnt even compare. Kieran needed a much more supportive friend. the fact that he LET IT GO and even apologized at the end while recieving no apology from us or his sister, that alone is a sign he is maturing. people really just dont get that. Ive also already seen the epilogue but I wont get into that here obviously.
Yeah at some point you just gotta feel bad for the guy
its really disheartening to see how so many people in this community have such god awful media literacy. after so long we finally get great stories and a lot of people cant even understand them
I honestly never hated him and the poor guy needs to be protected.
I don't understand where people are coming from when they hate him. I don't usually like (real) people anyway but gamefreak made this fictional character one of my favourites alongside Arven and many others. This is a great video.
Honestly Kieran has a lot of traits similar to our friends in Paldea. Though once we get to Indigo Disk he definitely has released more of his inner Nemona
Agreed. It's funny that the people who hate Kieran would probably react similarly if they experienced what he has gone through. In reality, they don't hate him, they hate that, deep down, they would feel the same way. By proxy, they would hate themselves and can't deal with that revelation and, thus, hate Kieran with the justification that he was a "creepy, emo weirdo" when they aren't that different deep down
Yup, its crazy how they see kids like this i wanted to hug him, they love Carmine, but hates him
Eh, Self-righteous neurotypical types who are unironic elitists and ableists.Nothing new.
Glad I'm not the only one that saw Kieran's outbursts as not being just out of nowhere. Honestly, if there was anyone that should have had the finger pointed to them as the cause, it's Carmine. She's the one that tells us to keep quiet bout Ogerpon, she's the one that snaps at Keiran for dumb reasons, and in the Indigo Disk she... basically does jack shit to help get Keiran back to normal because 'he scares her' now. Her words on that one, not mine.
But yeah, it's basically up to us to fix something she's the main culprit of causing. Keiran might have issues with self-confidence and anxiety, but Carmine's got serious anger issues. I mean their grandpa gets onto her for how she talked to Keiran and her response was basically 'it's not like I hit him' showing she only thinks she'd actually be too mean to him if she was physically hurting him. I don't know about anyone else, but that's NOT a good sign to me of her being all that good an influence on Keiran let long a good sister.
That's also why I feel the ending of the DLC, where Keiran asks for us to start over with him, is exactly the ending that should be given to him. While I still feel the initial cause is Carmine's admittedly sound reasoning of wanting to keep us seeing Ogerpon a secret from him, like you said we still are part of why he became so fixated on strength. Because we had to keep quiet, Keiran grew to be jealous of our luck and strength instead of likely staying in awe like at the beginning of the Teal Mask. Us doing our part to try snapping him out of this state is us being what he honestly was really wanting. A friend. It's why I like the fact that with Amarys, Drayton, and I think Lacey, we get the option to call Keiran just that, our friend. Maybe not the intentional reasoning why, but in my head I feel this is to show we a the player knew the reason reason why he was so upset about not getting to stay with Ogerpon. It was his last chance to get a friend he could relate to, rely on, be more himself around. The kind of friend we needed to step up to be for him at the end.
Yeah. Like, it does make sense that Kieran idolizes the strength of Ogerpon, and initially idolizes you for your strength to stand up to his sister... once you realise his relationship with Carmine might be well-intentioned on her part, but it is absolutely shown to have a pretty firmly one-sided power imbalance. His family loves him, yet also treats him like he's a fragile toddler whose life has to be carefully supervised, despite being of the same age you are and in direct contrast to a world where kids regularly are trusted to go on adventures alone at young ages.
I feel like if he didn't feel so restrained, his backlash to the events wouldn't have been nearly so severe.
@@GarlyleWilds Oh absolutely. He'd still have every right to be mad at us and Carmine for keeping Ogerpon a secret, but he definitely wouldn't have lashed out as badly. As for their grandpa, yeah he probably should have trusted Keiran a bit more when it came to the true story, but he probably also knew fully well that Keiran would more than likely go right back up the mountain to find Ogerpon afterwards if not try telling the truth to the whole town. Which he did do both anyways and both times it turned out fine.
Though it's obvious his attitude in Indigo Disk wouldn't have been a thing if he'd just been treated better. I'm honestly excited to see how he'll interact with Penny, Nemona, and Arven.
This was an interesting watch; I'll give my two cents about Kieran as a character.
(This will be Long, sorry...)
First of all, I don't think he is the worst nor that he is some-type of inc*l &/or sch**l-shtr. People who "see" or interpret him in that way, have missed the point of the story.
In Teal Mask; I felt sympathetic towards him, I understand the whole "Sometimes you can't have your dreams come true" message. But as I kept re-watching footage and overall reading other people's inputs... I've realized that while I feel bad for Kieran, it's best if he didn't ended up with Ogerpon after-all. While we get to meet & see the "best" side of Ogerpon, we gotta remember that pkmn are still animals and can sometimes lash-out. Not saying that Ogerpon is evil or a bad pkmn but in the wrong hands or even in the hands of someone inexperienced, it can be dangerous.
I also disagree with the motion that Carmine is x*nophobic- to me, she was always trying to protect her home from becoming a "spectacle". She is supposed to follow the trope of the big-sis, but she does come off a bit too rough... I don't think she is abusive but she has accidentally been overprotecting her brother and not allowing him to properly "walk-n-fall" to learn from his own mistakes.
In Indigo Disk; I still feel for both siblings but I won't turn away my eye-sight from the glaring problems.
I didn't like how Carmine tried to hide us from her little brother; specially with everything that happened in Teal Mask... While she is still firey, I appreciate that she is a bit softer now. But something that I've seen a few folks point out are the pictures found in her room.
It speculated that Carmine & Kieran might either be orphans or at least one of their parents has passed away while the other one is devoted to work. Most pictures seem to present Carmine but lack Kieran, which some have suggested that Kieran might have been really young when the parents passed away. I find it curious because at least with Arven, Penny & Nemona, we either meet their parents or get a mention of them existing for the best or for the worst. Maybe ppl will gloss over this possible detail but a "home-upbringing" can really define a person's personality, self-esteem and over stability... that can explain why Carmine & Kieran behave the way they do.
Now for Kieran- GF pulled a very risky move, when making him the bully. It had really brought a lot of discourse for the better or the worst... I don't think that Kieran's bullying should be "ignored" or "justified". What he did was clearly wrong and he has to atone for it. And yet, we can see it didn't came from a place of pure "malice" but rather his own instability and self-loathe. Again, to make it clear- this is not a justification but a explanation to understand why these things happen! Understanding something, doesn't mean you are Agreeing or Justifying the aspect!
Something that ppl don't often talk about is how Kieran is the antithesis of what PKMN has always been; working together, friendships & self-acceptance. What do we see him do? He is often working alone, he pushes anyone that tries to help him (in Indigo Disk) & he ofc despises himself.
What I take from Kieran is that he is a cautionary tale. There is nothing wrong with relating & sympathizing with him because some have been in his shoes but we have to remember the "caution" in the tale. We don't have to shut people away, we don't have to work alone and we shouldn't hate ourselves... These are not easy tasks and sometimes we do wind up alone but don't give up.
Sadly, I think the story was a bit rushed and while I understood what GF tried to do- not many ppl have the understanding and/or "empathy" when it comes to the final scene. And I honestly, don't blame them either... the idea of "forgiving a bully" is not easy and not everyone can do it.
As for me, I chose to forgive Kieran for these reasons; (1) He had the realization of how dangerous is the role the protagonist, while we are the "chosen"- we also have to carry the burden of knowledge and responsibilities. (2) He does acknowledges his wrong-doings and properly apologizes to us but he also states that he will apologize to the League Club for his poor behavior, (3) He has removed himself from the League Club; this is something interesting that ppl don't talk about. Instead of clinging to what he has worked hard for in the past, he has decided to remove himself and possibly maybe start from zero again as his true self.
Also, it's very clear that regardless of Kieran's bullying- everyone was very concern for him. The Elite 4 members all had something to share and appreciate about Kieran; Lacey says that Kieran's personality took a nose-dive when he changed his "look" but was optimistic of him in the end, Amarys is the one who shows compassion and care for the siblings, Crispin while he doesn't understand "clearly" what happened- is shown he admired the fierce determination that both Kieran and the player had in their battle and is what has motivated him to get better. And as for Drayton, he clearly loves and cares for Kieran- the only thing I didn't like was his "goated" moment with the "ex-champion".
Was it uncalled for? No. But was it necessary? To me, Not really. I don't like beating "dead horses".
If anything what made me a bit sad is how GF clearly is writing Kieran as this flawed character that still has a "bright-future" up ahead. Kieran is still a hard-working kid, who clearly has intelligence presented by the constant evolution of his pkmn team. He can be understanding as he has the initial "intuitive" to see that there was something not right with Ogerpon's story (btw this is stated by Carmine & Grandpa's dialogue). He is also willing to break from his "comfort-zone" and talk to a village full of adults and challenge their way of thinking... So, while GF wrote Kieran as an antagonist for these DLCs- he is also meant to represent "hope". While you make mistakes and fall off grace, you can always stand up.
There will be those that will never forgive you which understandable. But there will be those that will and help you to move forward- and in the long run meet new folks whom you can be a positive change to them.
Is kinda sad cuz it's a meaningful story being told...
Kieran was indeed a bully, though it would also seem like (from what I’ve seen) no-one was trying to help him. As far as I’m aware Carmine just gave up cause he “scares” her now, the Elite 4 while definitely being concerned for him all seem like they did nothing to try and reason with him. Well except Draydon who said that he preferred when Kieran was meek and scared, which to me kinda sounds like he’s on some pure salt from Kieran beating him which is than supported by the “Ex-Champion” line which he said to a Kieran already having a mental breakdown and entirely unnecessary.
Pretty much from what I’ve seen, Kieran was all alone having to deal with his insecurities and unstable personality, and no-one seemed to lift a finger to help. Though like you I’m not justifying him being a bully just explaining the reason behind why he got so far with it.
@@hyperdreamer9483 I agree! Most of the Elite Four seemed concerned for both Kieran & Carmine but were unsure how to handle the situation since it was something that "abruptly" happened. In the story is shown that the ones who were going to take action were Amarys & Drayton. The steel type specialist has a close relationship with both Carmine and Kieran but it's also shown that she has romantic feelings for Kieran. Based on Amarys dialogue, she is the one that shows more compassion upon the situation. Meanwhile Drayton, he is a very interesting character.
Drayton is the grandson of Unova's Gym leader Drayden. Which has led to a lot of theories that the reason why Drayton runs from his responsibilities is due to being the shadow of the Unova's Champion Iris- whom Drayden had taken under his wing. In other words, Drayton is constantly "under-pressure" when thinking of home and now in BB Academy he is dealing with a "mirror" which is reflected upon Kieran. Which makes me feel a lot for him too.
Yet not many ppl discuss that while Drayton has some disadvantages, he also got some advantages- having a family that basically taught him the "ropes" on how to properly care and treat pkmn. Compared to Carmine & Kieran who don't seem to have any "parental figures" in their lives except for their grandparents. That said, I agree that I didn't like how Drayton handled the situation after the protagonist defeats Kieran... Many cheer on him for doing so, which is fine- everyone is entitled to their own feelings with this scene. But personally, I was always taught to never beat a "dead horse". We already beat him, what's the need to continue the humiliations?
But that is also what makes Drayton interesting- a lot people are arguing that he is not manipulative at all and seems transparent. Thing is, we are forgetting that we are being manipulated by him... You see it at the start when you are given the options to say "No" - he twists your words to say that you're on board to join the League Club. Also, another thing is that we feel motivated to help Drayton; either if it's to beat Kieran or to safe Kieran... so his "manipulation" tactic won't feel as forced nor uncomfortable. But we do get some characters showing Drayton's deceptive nature towards others, by Lacey's & Crispin's dialogues with him... Just because "we" (the player) do not feel manipulated by Drayton- doesn't mean he isn't trying or being somewhat like that with others, which is something people seem to be missing.
Drayton is a very "gray-area" character similar to Kieran. He can be a chill friend, someone who can share wisdom and a great trainer but also he has flaws like being lazy, grudgeful and someone who doesn't think on the consequences of his actions. Enhance why Hassel warns Drayton to take consideration of his own decisions, as he doesn't want him to feel pressure but also doesn't want him to regret later on his actions.
As for Kieran being alone- I was slightly sad we never got too approach him and try to have a proper dialogue. But this is the story that GF wanted to tell us. We also have to remember that Kieran was pushing everyone away... not wanting anyone near him. Which makes sense as he didn't want ppl to see his vulnerable side. He was not in the right "head-space" and well sometimes life hits you really hard, to shake you up. I don't think Kieran is as "irredeemable" and I believe he will change for the better.
In the end, they are just kids that are still learning about life and are bound to make mistakes.
@@mikaiink Yeah I agree with you there Drayton is a chill guy, but that chillness can also make him hard to read you never know what he true intentions are which is definitely an interesting trait for an Elite 4 member.
Now I do agree that Kieran was pushing people away, but still it would’ve been nice to at least hear from them that they at least tried to talk to him and snap him out of it, but they just didn’t have the strength to reach him. Like you could have Carmine tell us that she tried to talk to him to get him to stop his madness but she just couldn’t get through to him, have her scared that she’s losing her brother and that he’s destroying himself to be stronger. Now I get we should appreciate the story we got and not what could’ve been, but still this is just my opinion.
@@hyperdreamer9483 Drayton's chill but hard to read nature- makes me think a bit of Grimmsley who was someone from the Unova Elite Four but like compared to the others- he seemed a very "gray area" character.
And true! Tbh, I did wished that Carmine would have recognize and apologized for being a tad-bit too harsh on Kieran. Personally, I don't think she was "evil" or abusive as some other folks argue but she was a bit rough with him... Plus, like you said- would've been nice seeing more interactions. And no worries! It's nice to have a dialogue and see other ppl perspectives!
Honestly I wholeheartedly agree. Kieran is at a young and vulnerable age where he’s just starting to really put himself together, he’s had wants and needs that went ignored by everyone around him and no one was really trying to help him (in his eyes anyway). Than suddenly we pull up and out of nowhere got everything he’s ever wanted from other’s friendship and aspiration to the pokemon he’s loved since he’d heard about it by, his is mind, unfair means since we lied to him to win Ogrepon’s favour over himself (that’s likely what he thinks anyway).
To me Kieran is good representation of how us being “The Main” can have a negative effect on people, we get everything we could ever want that other trains could only dream of and (depending on how you play the game) accomplish them with ease leaving nothing left for anyone else since you effectively set the bar to an unattainable level for anyone else.
Agreed. It's funny that the people who hate Kieran would probably react similarly if they experienced what he has gone through. In reality, they don't hate him, they hate that, deep down, they would feel the same way. By proxy, they would hate themselves and can't deal with that revelation and, thus, hate Kieran with the justification that he was a "creepy, emo weirdo" when they aren't that different deep down
@@bradleychan5684 Very true, I mean I can accept the fact that he definitely took it a bit too far, but’s he’s still young and considering how aggressive his sister is it makes sense he’d pick up on and likely internalize some of that behaviour since he’s around her almost all the time
@bradleychan5684 Exactly, im so confused when people hate him for not accepting loss. It's human, u work hard, lose, and get mad is a human reaction.
kieran is my favourite character from this dlc, and watching this was the point in time that i realised hes supposed to be an antagonist
*Finally! Someone else who respects Kieran!!*
i respect him too, mate.
@aureliamastergoomba1278 Same here!
Kieran is so sweet and innocent, he just went through a tough time, and I relate... I go through rough times in life (Also, no joke, someone on DeviantArt is planning on making Kieran a emotionless heartless rapist in thier shitty mid fanfiction)
As an avid member of the Deviantart fanfiction community, I don’t claim that one. I don’t claim most of them to be honest.
@@jacksonvoet8312 Oh same. I make fanfics on that site, and that person is the worst
Who was it? I might know who it is.
Sorry- He has Bad rep??? (눈∀눈;)
He has a whole very *_clear_* character arc I felt like his behaviour was super self-explanatory honestly
Either way I loved having a... _Passionate_ competitor ♪(´▽｀)
In the past years of Pokemon games since S&M Keiran is one of the few charcters that stood out to me as well as my favorite. He is an example of how our role as a charcter effects people. It shows that in life some of us share the same dream. And with that we can kill the dreams of others wether it is inadvertently or purposely. And for them to get mad at losing their dream is human and we have no right to make them hold back their feelings. Cuz if u were the hard working loser who spent their life training, would u smile?
Agreed. It's funny that the people who hate Kieran would probably react similarly if they experienced what he has gone through. In reality, they don't hate him, they hate that, deep down, they would feel the same way. By proxy, they would hate themselves and can't deal with that revelation and, thus, hate Kieran with the justification that he was a "creepy, emo weirdo" when they aren't that different deep down.
i didn't play many of the old games and a few i have played as a child i don't fully remember the story and caracters of, so that might not be objectively true, but i think kieran is one of the best caracters ever introduced in the pokemon universe, his caracter is so deeply written and thats been missing that whole time in pokemon, hop was already nearly on that level, but he was like, nah whatever imma do something else and stopped battling, but kieran was driven mad by the fact he couldn't win against his new friend, so he became stronger, loosing that original intention to just be a good trainer, he wanted to be and then became the best, was defeated and finally realized that winning is not everything and became friends with everyone again, thats just a perfect story of a "villain"/"friend" who wasn't evil, just broken and the mc, being a good friend rescued him
sorry for writing an essay btw
I don’t think it was his defeat that showed him that, but more the fact that he realized his obsession with being strong had consequences. His desire to be like us had nearly destroyed the world, and almost killed him which truly showed him that he’d taken this too far
I don't feel like writing my own long essay right now (I totally would if I were more awake haha), but I definitely agree that Kieran is one of the best Pokemon characters/rivals out of all the games.
Amazingly written storyline, which was a huge twist for me at least with what happened in Teal Mask!
So well done for Pokemon. I couldn't stop playing Indigo Disk ever since starting it because I wanted to see more of Kieran lol
I like keiran, but my favorite character is Natural harmonia gropius (AKA N)
Some people will change their opinion with Keiran after Pecharunt event were he battles alongside you against brainwashed residents.
Ps. If you are wondering Nemona is stronger than Kieran (it was confirmed in the Pecharunt event that some players hacked, and posted on youtube videos).
*"Kieran isn't a child. He's a 14-year-old teenager."*
... Still a kid, dude... That aside, great video
I feel like the people who dont like Kieran dont understand the story correctly or dont care much about the story. Of course there are just characters people dont like but i had several friends who saw or played the DLC and when i asked them about Kieran and what they thought, some said they found him annoying and some said they found him as an interesting character. Those who said they liked him knew the story and understood what was being told and the others just cared about playing the game or other stuff. Just something I feel like plays a factor into whether someone might like Kieran or not.
As for me hes my favorite character and i love his story. I completely relate to him and it all makes sense. It was sort of rushed and some details may be a little weird but being honest it is sometimes hard to put a story into a game and this was a short (sort of) DLC. Thats where I say that the DLC has anime potential and I hope to god some sort of spinoff is made based around the DLC and Kieran.
With the Mythical Pecha Berry now out, there is another thing - When Kieran punches the monument to the Loyal Three, there is a blink and you'll miss it flash of purple that looks EXACTLY like the purple light that surrounds Arven and Penny when they eat the mochi - the same light that spreads from their hands. On top of that, Kieran going down that path has the shot of him at Peachy's ALSO frame Pecharunt
Teen with angst that gets amplified by a manipulative Pokemon = Kieran goes nuts
You know, when I first met Kieran when he was shy and always thought he was too weak to do anything, I immediately felt bad for him since his life became so tragic when we (the main protagonists) came into his life. Now that I watched this video, I fully understand Kieran's character on how went from a shy teen to a champion obsessed with becoming stronger.
And the fact that he had to go through having a big sister who yells at him and pushes him away, a close friend who lies to him, and a Pokemon that he really looks up to but soon gets taken away from him makes you feel that Kieran could've deserved better if we told him the truth about the oger. And because of this, he became such a tragic antagonist of the DLC of Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.
Honestly with everything he does. I can relate on several levels. Feeling shy and not feeling up to talking to people but wanting to be friends. It can be hard especially if you have something like anxiety or autism (least on my side but Kieran may be on the spectrum).
He wants to make friends and has hyper fixations. Like Ogrepon and you as the player who he quickly becomes fixated on. Somwthing else I've done. I go through periods of hyper fixation with games and such. Currently on one with Pokemon thanks to this little guy.
And if he has trouble making friends and his sister, the only person it seems he really talks to. Keeps snacking him down when he already has self esteem and confidence issues. You can understand why he's like a turtle hiding in its shell. Plus being 14 and according to his grandparents your his first friend. Going 14 years without a friend can be very emotionally stunting for him. He clearly wants friends but is too scared or unconfined in doing so. So when the player turns up, he gets fascinated. You beat his sister. You seem nice. You're so cool. If you believe it or not he seems to develop a crush on the player.
And given how much he opens up and tells you. Look at the pictures. When you get to the second sign board he's more confident and smiling. Then you get to see the Ogres Den and afterwards he nervously invites you to the festival. This could be a kid simply. Nervous to invite a friend or he really does have a crush. So when you say yes he's hyper. Then at the his place you say you're his friend. He gets happily flustered and giddy. Offering you his mask cause he doesn't want you to miss out and puts himself second.
Then at the festival he buys you the candy apple with his pocket money. But then when covering up Ogrepon that excitement and joy is replaced with insecurity. He thinks you're mocking and teasing him. Which if you were his first friend that would cut deep. He sulks and goes home but come the morning shakes it off and feels excited to see you again.
Then with the lies about the story and Ogre. He's potentially been bullied. Maybe even people pretended to be his friend before just to tease him. So to have you lie to him his insecurities are on full display. Especially since it seems his sister is stealing you. To feel like you opened up to someone. You trusted them. You cared for them. Then they betray you. That would cut. So he latches onto the one thing he thinks he could push for. Power.
Come Indigo Disk he still has feelings for you. He sees you and his facade breaks. He gets flustered and caught off. Then when you beat him his hurt again. This strong persona he made is shattered. The people he thought respected him immediately leave him. He's so used to be left alone and again by you. He feels he will never compete.
Then with Terapagos he let's it all out. You're perfect and his jealous. He's envious of you and feels unable to do anything. So when his mistake (granted a lot flamed on by Briar) almost gets you all killed his distraught. Shaking it off when you tell him you need him. He still trusts and cares for you. His idol. So when you show a need and want for him he comes in to help. Finally breaking down after coming out of his shell over this adventure.
Then you get back and still want to be with him. You say you want to be his friend still and he has the first, emotionally true smile he has had in ages. Honestly he seems like he does have some depression which I can relate to. He pushes himself to try and avoid confronting it cause he's scared.
'I don't need you'
But he needs someone. Honestly if pokemon was a darker serious and you had the option to turn him down and not be his friend. It seems like he may have taken 'final action'. Grim but when you look at him he's in desperate need for help. Therapy and frankly having a friend who will listen is what he needs.
There hasn't been a Pokémon character I find that hits so close to home. He's anxious, scared and lonely but soesnt want to be. Then despite all his flaws you stick by him and he is willing to be vulnerable and not get bullied by you. He really needed to catch a break and I do hope we can see him improving and being happy in the epilogue. The good boy and his player BF will be happy damn it!
I didn't really hate Kieran, it's more like I got more scared of him. Not because he is evil, but because he was a pretty shy kid who seemed to be very nice, but then a series of events quickly caused him to become power hungry and unhinged. The sudden descent of his mental stability just freaked and worried the heck out of me. I was worried about his well being along with Carmine. I wanted to help him so badly because his mentality at the begining of Indigo Disk was clearly not good for him long term (neglecting his sleep and borderline bullying), but his aggression caused my emotionally sensitive nerves to waver.
I liked Kieran. He reminds me of me in the beginning.
When the snap happened. I felt bad that he was going down a spiral to try and win.
I love his arc, it's much better than the main game imo.
Not to mention, his battle themes are great!
Battling against him when he was the BB champion, got me cornered!
He's my favorite character. When he apologized for his big mistake before.
it made me happy ☺️
He is still passing through puberty, give him a break.
I can relate to him on this perspective, i am just too lazy to execute things like he does, he doesn't deserve the bad rep he gets.
Part of me wonders if we had told Kieran the truth, would he have immediately tried to find Ogrepon himself, prompting us to chase him and he takes it as an insult that we think he’s weak, triggering a battle and we get the exact same story going forward.
Kinda like what happened with Syndrome in the Incredibles, where Mr. Incredible ends up causing a train accident trying to stop a kid Syndrome on his jet boots.
Honestly, I don't think he is a bad person. I mean, I felt quite sorry seeing him spiral into such a self-destructive way. The one I'll admit I really hated with a burning passion was Drayton. I mean, he put everything into motion in order to put Kieran against his worst fears, and even though in that moment, he wasn't acting exactly well, at least when Kieran had that meltdown, I would've expected some sort of regret or empathy for the poor guy, not putting salt on the wound with that "ex-champion" line.
I love Kieran!!!
caw caw I'm a reshiram
*sees profile is a scream tail, says they're a reshiram*
seems legit~!
Too many people don’t get him I still relate to him I love Kieran’s writing and if I was about to lose a second legendary I would have twitched my eyes and used the master ball too.
I am more interested in this DLC now. This dark and bittersweet story of the corruption, the revenge and the return of a rival. 🙂
If Kieran is more like me, he would’ve smashed all his Pokeballs and tries to ragequit completely. 😅
Ive said this before but Kieran is basically the Pokemon version of Kevin 11. Both felt like outcasts due to who they are, with Kieran being shy and Kevin being considered a freak due to his powers. Both became friends with the main characters for a short time before going against them and once they became stronger (Kieran by training obsessively and Kevin by absorbing the energy of the Omnitrix) dedicated their lives to beating the main characters out of spite. After they are beaten, they both redeem themselves and become best friends with the main characters later on. The only difference is that Kevin went on a psychotic crime spree when he was evil and teamed up with Ben’s other arch-enemy, Vilgax.
Thank you for taking the time to actually talk about this.
With the prologue coming out soon, there is a question I had wondered about: knowing you can trade Pokemon with people in the Indigo Disk, if the game allows it, how many would be willing to give him Ogerpon with no strings attached?
I’d try to, though I don’t think at that point he’d accept it nor would Ogerpon be happy about it since they chose us, and Kieran would rather prove himself superior so Ogerpon would choose him willingly
He's my favourite character, I love this smol bean and I'll protect him u_u I highly doubt those people who hate him or his story are so empathetic irl, they most likely would act like Carmine, who tries to pull an Asuka but fail miserably because even Asuka had more depth than her. Carmine imo was the main reason behind Kieran being what he is. She has always been a narcisist with anger issues, she's used to put Kieran down her whole life, and when MC shows up and brings a bit of joy to Kieran's life and Carmine realizes she's not the center of Kieran's universe anymore, Carmine even without noticing does her best to steal the spotlight (and his only friend) forcing MC to shut up so she can remain as "big sister" and protector of Kieran when he had nothing to be protected from, except from her suffocating behavior. The boy snapped not because of not seeing the ogre, but because he thought his only friend had betrayed him and hid things from him, thanks to Carmine! He had all the reasons in the world to snap, having someone like her as a sister didn't help him have a sense of self because it was all about HER. He didn't know how to deal with his feelings, be it good or bad, and Carmine still refused to take accountability, he snaps and she suddenly starts acting all innocent and naive as if she were the younger sister.
Till this day I don't understand why the hell we were forced to shut up and obey Carmine when she wasn't even our friend, Kieran was! (actually I know it's because it was the laziest and easiest way they could come up with to create a rival for us and take us to Unova, but still). We could and should have told him, we absolutely had no reason to obey this pathetic excuse of tsundere. Carmine criticized his "teen angst" and kept putting herself on a pedestal saying that unlike him, she didn't allow her teen angst get the best of her or something, but I will never forget how I was all "oh really, but curiously you still get angry and overreacts for no reason, just like a teen you a**hole :)" reading the scene. The game tried really hard to paint her in a good light throughtout the story but sorry, didn't convince me. AT ALL. What they tell us and what we see are two different things, "show don't tell" don't match here.
Kieran was a great character, his journey was so interesting, a fresh breeze after having to deal with Hau and Hop, ugh! I'm glad I've found more people who like him as well!
MUNCHES I OVE THUS EXLAIN SOMUCH IT MAKES SO MUCH
It makes so much sence!! :o
Another thing that one has to consider is that, when Terapagos pops out of his shell, what's the first thing he sees? The player character, not Kieran. If he saw Kieran first, he might have walked up to him instead
i started the dlc thinking meh, i kinda sped past the 1st part of it, my only regret is such an amazing character arc being locked behind another paywall
This poor guy, I wouldn't have even wanted to hurt him, he was clearly someone who wanted to find his place as well as not being treated like a little kid. Oh and it dosn't make much sense as to why we were the ones to connect with Ogrepon, despite us showing up a day ago. It's just weird. But from what's in the latest DLC, I won't spoil, it's good to see that Kieran coming back to his more friendly self, who does help. Just, want to give this boy a hug, he didn't deserve to be treated like a black sheep.
5:55
Someone need to notice the purple mist
Kieran honestly is a character I feel many demonise due to autistic traits. As an autistic person I relate to him a lot and a lot of the charges levied against him are often leaning into ableism.
As well as this, he’s insecure due to a toxic mixture of overprotectiveness and violence from Carmine, and other bullying back at school.
He deserved so much better than what the game and the fanbase gave him.
I never hated Kieran. I just figured he was in a jerk phase.
I think that it's projection. Some people can't stand seeing characters with flaws because it reminds them of themselves, and they rather have a character that they can IDOLIZE (like Red and Cynthia), so it feels "good" to put them down because it's like an act of "killing your weakness" because of their own insecurity. This type of sentiment is rather common with developing kids or adults with arrested development. Because it feels good, trying to live through the life of somebody successful; and it feels too "pathetic", to accept somebody with flaws.
Thats just one perspective. Some people dislike him because it actually reminds them of somebody with similar flaws that has hurt them in the past.
Honestly I don't blame Kieran for chasing strength at any cost, given his experiences. Because I've had those experiences too. If you were bullied by your sister, and by everyone at school, if you were (heavily implied to be beyond the point of deniability) autistic, and pretty much misunderstood by everyone and either demonized or treated like a baby, and then SUDDENLY one person, one good person wants to be your friend. They don't infantilise you or demonize you. They treat you like an equal, they *want* to talk to you. Then suddenly this person, the only person ever in your life that has ever appreciated you, and treated you right, lies to you. They lie to you to stop you from seeing a hyperfixation of yours, and not only that, accept your grandparent's instructions to infantilise you. Suddenly, they're just like the rest. The ogre, who they stopped you from seeing and befriending, now wants to be caught by them. This point I want to emphasise above the rest, because everyone assumes that Kieran does it all over the ogre. No. He doesn't. It's the fact that he was lied to, that he was shut out, and he was treated by his first ever friend just like how everyone treats him.
Then you'd believe that since everyone before them bullied you for being weak, then they're no different, and that's the way the world works, and if you ever want to stop being bullied and get your friend back, you'll have to get stronger and stronger and stronger. Anything to have friends. Anything to stop the bullies. And it works for a while. You skip meals and sleep to train, but it's worth it. It has to be. You snap out at people and enforce harsh standards on the club. You close your mind to friendship. You'll never have friends while you are weak, so why try? You'll be able to make friends when you are strong. You take no joy in doing this, but it's worth it. It has to be. Then you have an opportunity to challenge that person. If you win, then you'll finally be respected, they'll finally be your friend again! Then... you lose. You're sent into a mental breakdown, and your defeat is rubbed in your face by someone who just wants to see you dragged through the dirt (from Kieran's perspective, I personally think Drayton does care about Kieran, but just didn't understand that tough love in this situation was just cruel and would not do anything to help him), and you come to the depressing conclusion. You'll never have friends.
Then, you get another chance. Terapagos. You lose again. You're manipulated into terrastalising it by an overzealous scientist, and then the ball breaks, just like you. Your flash of hope to beat them and make them treat you right, and have them as a friend again, gone in a moment.
it's only when Kieran's friend uplifts him, tells him that he's needed, that he realises his own worth, that he's already strong, that those that tormented him did not do so because he was weak, but because they misunderstood him, they didn't like him, they found him an easy target.
If you experienced those experiences (and I have) you'd believe all people treated you horrible and wrongly because something was wrong with the way you are, and you'd stop at nothing to want to change that about yourself, only to find out it is the way you are, fall into despair, until someone uplifted you, as someone did with me, and the player did with Kieran.
Seeing people demonise him breaks my heart, because they're honestly making the same mistakes Drayton and Carmine made. You cannot torment and bully someone into loving themselves.
sorry for the rant, it's just I relate to him so much in my own self-hatred, troubles at school, his troubles at home (to a decent extent), his friends not really understanding him, and how demonised autistic people really are.
Kieran is more like a Autism teenager
For me, is very more accurate in my opinion
Like some have said already, I just wish we got to see more of Kieran’s and by extension the other dlc characters on a similar level to what we got with the rivals in the main story. At the very least what we did get wasn’t bad, pretty good even, and feels like step up from the last generation’s dlc (though my memory of the last dlc is a little rusty so my opinion on that might require a revisit to say for sure.)
5:04 Um… is there something you want to admit to us?
He first appeared in the Holiday Special.
I admit 'nothing' Poggers
iuno what am i admitting to lol?
@@FedoraReshiramGamingLet’s just say the Holiday Special was so bad, even the actors and creators on set would deny involvement.
The thing that makes this even better is that Kieran when pulling out Terapagos called both us and Carmine out for our actions that made him this way, if anything WE were the villain of both DLCs in a way.
Finally, someone had to say it. Especially after watching Drogane's review of The Indigo Disk and the epilogue. Like, people just don't get Kieran
Technically, "teenager" falls under the definition of "child".
But that's besides the point. I never personally thought Kieran had a bad rep in the first place, just that he was handed a bad card in life. And unfortunately, you, as the player character, was that bad card.
I really wished we could’ve just told him tbh. But we wouldn’t have at least some of the story elements If we did tell him
What makes Kieran scary is how he's*very* close to a realistic depiction of shy bullied pushed over the edge where he goes from a nobody to a nightmare.
If that's not a scary example enough, think about the kids who got pushed around in school to the point they become the single most dangerous force on the campus.
Kieran is not a psycho. He has emotions. One could more easily compare him to people who work themselves out into their graves. He is heavily autistically coded, and he doesn’t want revenge per se on the player, only the players respect, and wanting respect one doesn’t get is very common among autistic people. Much of the demonisations of him as a psychopath honestly lean into ableism.
Dude, Kieran wasn't even going to pull a Teutonic Pogrom on his class. I like the analogy but I feel it too strong this case.
My favourite words from my favourite fictional character: “Wowzers! +Awe man”
Sheeesh! No wonder why I like him so much! He is me when I was a teenager but less explosive since I wasn't able to do it since I was too afraid of consequences because I was abused mentally in my childhood....
I'm playing Pokémons since Red and Blue and I never liked a character in that franchise that excessively...
Yo my guy I already made my opinion about him here it is take your time to read it all:
To me, kieran is not suppose to be the victim and the villain from all of the trauma from both the teal mask and the indigo disk.
The dismissive of our characters is so awful all they can do is to just make those dumb expressions whenever her low life jerk of a sister carmine wants to be a selfish person as a way to keep her brother safe from “danger”.
I am not a fan of his sister I hate her and she should be the one who gets punished much worse instead of her brother.
Carmine is so annoying, selfish, egotistical, naive, short-tempered, somewhat hypocritical, etc. She also knows that her brother is a huge fan of ogerpon and when us and her saw it at night we were going to explain to him but she stupidly stops us from spilling the beans to him about it like are you for real he deserves the truth and I know for a fact that this will go south from then on for us and Kieran all because of a “overprotective selfish of a sister” carmine.
In the indigo disk was to me some what more worse. Kieran still despise us and it so nauseating to see carmine again like I really do not care about her and all I was very concern about is Kieran.
I do not mind of kieran for giving us a cold shoulder her sister is still being dumb for the fact that she’s the reason why her brother hates her for keeping the secret of ogerpon from him. And the word “shut up/shut it” is what she honestly deserves from him.
Drayton the grandson of drayden from unova is somewhat alright but he’s somewhat annoyingly ignorant to Kieran after we beat him the the champion battle like dude he’s suffer enough, shut up already man!
I can go on talking about Kieran but for those that have already watch or played the teal mask and the indigo disk already know the whole story. And the indigo disk is somewhat fine.
There are two Pokémon battle music of Kieran from a RUclipsr named Juno Songs who make lyrics about kieran and his feeling and it’s very touching and helps us understand more about the pain and sorrow that Kieran has to endure. He deserves to be happy with ogerpon😢
I’m not sure if the same RUclipsr will make more about him in the indigo but the lyrics sounds super great and Kieran is awesome character to have as a rival along with nemona.
This is what I want people to know about why Kieran is the way it is from the beginning to the end.
His sister constantly comments he is at that age, dismissing whatever was the true reason he changed. I think Dokutaro had something to do with it. There is the purple stuff that comes out when he punches the shrine.
I know we're just dealing with a fictional video game character and I probably shouldn't read so deep into it, but heck it, I've hidden my feelings from everyone for long enough, so I hope we don't mind long comments. I feel the general reactions and feedback many fans have given on Kieran are definitive proof to and show that not only no matter what Game Freak does with their characters, it'll always be impossible to satisfy everyone, but also just how gosh darn low a lot people's EQ can be.
For the first point, it's relatively straightforward; the main storyline of the base game featured a happy natured and personal-growth encouraging rival being Nemona; Hop from SwSh also sharing some characteristics. Many were mad complaining about how older rivals like Blue that were just genuine jerks were much better. And now we get a jerkish and cold Kieran in the Indigo Disk who wanted nothing but to defeat you, and yet people are still hating. Not to mention, literally so many people were talking about how they wanted to see Kieran go through a villain arc after finishing The Teal Mask's story, which was exactly what we got, but for some people are, yet again, still hating on that.
As for the second point, I think you did a pretty great job summarizing quite a few major points (all of which can easily be missed by those who don't deal well with in-depth emotional consideration and analysis), but also the fact so many people forget that not only are young teens most susceptible to mental damage and breakdowns because that's literally when the human brain is changing the most rapidly, causing it to be very unstable. Doesn't straight up justify his irrational choices throughout the storyline, BUT it gives reason. People seem to forget all the irrational choice they made as teens. I'm also a bit taken back by how many people gloss past how big of a role we (the protag) and carmine hiding the secret about seeing ogerpon and lying to Kieran affected him. I would admit that back when I was 14, being a lonely person, I would probably snap too if people lied to me and hid me from the one entity I felt relation to. To put salt on the wound, one of the people (yet again, the protag) who betrayed Kieran's trust also keeps besting him in battle, explaining what drove him into the insanity of the "winning is everything" mindset. And it doesn't help that we, the one who lied to him, was also the one to catch ogerpon in front of him. I'm willing to bet that without the lie but even still catching ogerpon in front of him, things would have turned out very differently.
I'm by no means saying that being a disliker or even a hater of Kieran is automatically a sign of low EQ, after all, there can be simpler reasons such as just personality type, character arc, storyline, or even design not fitting one's tastes in fiction. However, from what I'm seeing, quite a few Kieran haters have reasons that reach quite a bit further than said simple aspects. But overall, I think all the feelings Kieran's story were quite well crafted and I respect him as a character for maturing so quickly after the events of the Indigo Disk, because back in my early teen years, I doubt I would've been able to completely get over such things for a while.
Alright, i eagerly away my piers cruely~
All I'm going to say is that people are way too blind to genuine character growth these days
Great video and I wholeheartedly agree. As you were listing all the things we did to gain Ogerpon's favor, one thought kept going through my mind. We gained that favor by denying him the opportunity through lying to him. I don’t blame him one bit
I couldn’t take bro seriously💀 the “he thinks he’s him” meme is the best example of how I felt 🤣 I wish we could’ve gone with carmine because she was so much more fun to be around even if she was a jerk but jerk characters tend to do well in pokemon
Wait, people see him as a bad guy? He hasn't done anything illegal. He's just being an angsty teenager.
He’s still meant to be an antagonist. Its like Miguel from ATSV, he’s definitely not the bad guy like The Spot is, but he’s still an antagonist at the end of the day.
Kieran just became no more toxic than Silver and everyone is acting like his ahh was going to shoot up Blueberry Academy with Mewtwo. That's how you can tell who in the comment section/forum is Americ*n.
Nemona stalker video
Are the people who give kieran a bad rep in the room with us?
I love kieran because i can feel the pain of being the third wheel so i want to win to be first. Also it's the first rival who is bad with losing against you
That's kind of one of the things I mentioned in my original comment, too, that Kieran is having a temper tantrum.
I don't think I hate him, I realized I don't. As a young teenager, he's pretty on point- but people are also used to "angry characters" being along the lines of Green (Blue) or Silver. Both characters who, honestly, have a higher fanbase than they deserve ngl.
Since I often play through these games lately in perspective of the character I'm playing, after Indigo Disk dropped things went from [Lucius] being angry and infuriated by Kieran's behavior (Lucius is also 14, mind you) to being incredibly worried at the moment of hearing A) He's gotten almost no sleep, you can see the bags under his eyes and B) seeing the way he's acting. Fighting Kieran went from emotional, pretty exciting and fun when [Lucius] was backed into a corner down to an Umbreon who only stayed alive due to friendship mechanics to "Hold me back before I personally deck Drayton upside the head" when he antagonized Kieran for losing.
You bring up a good point with people expecting characters of this age group to behave like rational or edgy adults. Another example I like to bring up is with people comparing Yusei- a hardened 18 year old with a poor upbringing and was homeless for a long period of time to Yuya - a naive 14 year old who looks up to his father, an entertainer, has both a loving family and people who would defend him and his family if bullied and expecting character B (Yuya) to act like character A (Yusei) and belittling the 14 year old for acting like a 14 year old. Idk, people just don't understand story writing and with things like Pokemon or Yugioh (the example I used) its pretty common.
honest to god
we need to be allowed to say it was our fault and make it right
cuz if u don't want to be exactly as the story says u are, it just straight up invalidates u as a player and forces u to be awful for no reason
kieran is nice at the end
i have beaten the elite 4, all my stuff is level 100 and my dude sends out a furret... HE OFFENDED ME! he desrves every bit of bad rep, not for his actions in the story, but for that furret!
Sir you have earned yourself a new sub. Thank you for understanding Kiki. :3
I had to look around to get a TON of opinions and examine him from every angle to understand his character~
Finally, someone who doesn't outright hate him! Cause his character arc is awesome and I think he's cool.
I knew i wasnt the Only One
it felt like we were told to Hate this guy but eeeeh
Can we agree that the kid needs another haircut tho?
Carmine is mentally abusive and it caused Kieran to repress his emotions. There was gonna be a moment where these repressed emotions were gonna explode, and we see it happen in the Indigo Disk.
And then Carmine learns her lesson, and it all ends well. If she was a real world person, she would be way worse. But no, Pokémon humans can almost always be redeemed.
@@jacksonvoet8312 She didn't learn anything. If she did, she would have apologized to him.
@@Oceane1803 The fact that they even get along now, and Carmine confiding in us in League Club dialogue shows that she’s trying to do better. She also dropped her facade at the end of the Indigo Disk and revealed she was just as torn up and heartbroken.
@@jacksonvoet8312 Well the first step would be to apologize but she still didn't do it.
@@Oceane1803 I admit that we didn’t see her apologize, but based on how much better terms they are now, it probably happened off screen, when they took that break from Blueberry. Just because we didn’t see it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. You seem to be projecting your feelings about your abusive family onto a Pokémon character, and while I understand, projection is ill-advised as a way to cope with trauma.
I’ll save my full critique of him for whatever story is released next week. Maybe he’ll get a redemption arc. But I can give my current assessment of him.
I thought I couldn’t hate a rival more than I could Bede. The guy who bullied kids so hard they abandon their starter and partner for half the gym challenge.
But Kieran came close.
He started off as the weak, shy, slightly rebellious, emo kid whose interests were repressed (for different reasons) by the townsfolk, his sister, and his grandparents.
We came into his xeno-wary hometown, and within days won everybody’s trust and friendship. He never saw us being friendly to Ogerpon, his sister, or anyone else; so he associated our presence and results with power.
So when he learned just how untrustworthy he is from his own grandparents, and how weak during the crisis he caused, he dedicated himself to becoming stronger. He lost the weak and shy personality traits, as well as his love for anything, and dedicated himself to power.
That’s when we came to his school, gave him PTSD flashbacks like Cynthia/Volo’s piano, and he allowed our challenge to squash his final weakness.
And when we beat him, he doesn’t learn, like Bede did. He instead doubled down, and caught Terapagos for power while ignoring how we bonded to it in friendship.
So after proving himself unworthy, he resolves himself to a lesser position, and lets us catch Terapagos. Still without properly addressing his issues.
Maybe he was being possessed by the Momotaro leader shown in the flashback, and it released him when he touched the shrine while holding the empowered Mask, thereby reviving the Loyal Three. But if he’s not being controlled during or since then, that doesn’t excuse his choices and behavior before and after that 12 hour period.
Edit: if you send out Ogerpon against him, not only does he get furious, but his AI will try to take it out first. Yep, he has lost it completely. Imagine trying to knock out your idol out of spite.
Lotta stuff i never considered, and i spent a long time thinking 'before' i made this video trying to cover every angle~
@@FedoraReshiramGaming Just in case you ever make a part 2, or talk about it on a stream; is there any aspect of my comment that you want me to elaborate on?
For example, my Bede comment.
Watch the Twilight Wings episode that follows Wooloo, and you’ll hear Hop promise “it has to be you, we’ll become champions together.” And then, between gyms 3 to 7, Hop abandoned Wooloo after Bede crushed him physically and emotionally, replaced by more meta relevant Pokémon.
@fedorareshiramgaming , It's been proven already by many players that have tested out the AI- and is not true that Kieran attacks primarily Ogerpon.
@@mikaiink My bad. It came up in two shorts I saw…
@@LocalMaple No worries! ^^
Better jerk rival than Temtem Max. You supposed to hate him but later on the evil team push him off a cliff because he doesn't want do evil things for him. then you know what I suggest you should look up gameplay of Temtem and see why he's the worst character and yes he's worse than Hop.
uhm, 'okay'~
@@FedoraReshiramGaming Max is like Kieran arc in reverse
Worse than Hop?
Thats a Pretty bold Claim
@@Mr.Brothybear look up gameplay of Temtem
I’m going to be honest right now I actually hate Kieran since day one of the first dlc because he want ogerpon to be his partner but he didn’t help me & carmine to find the three mask from the three evil pokemon & he want his dumb ass way to tell everyone about the true story about ogerpon & that got me so mad at him so as a payback for him I keep ogerpon & wipe his hold team again & I’ll do the same thing with the 2nd dlc because that what he get for not helping me & carmine & not to tell everyone about the true story about ogerpon so champion get revenge & payback by full power
The reason he didn’t help is because we didn’t really let him help, we hide everything from him. Also why wouldn’t he tell everyone the true story, he’s believed Ogerpon was good for a long time and now he’s proven right. Why wouldn’t he tell people?
@@hyperdreamer9483 well he should keep his mouth shut the hold field trip then he won’t go evil on me & his big sister
@@LuigiFunTime7665 But also if we’d told him about Ogerpon from the start he could’ve been helping us and things could’ve turned out differently
@@hyperdreamer9483 well if we are player in this game then the game told us to lie to Kieran not tell him the true because that how the game goes because the game force us to lie to Kieran & destroyed him completely because that is what the Pokémon scarlet & Pokémon violet dlc is completely all about in the very first place
Yeah he does lol he’s horrible