5e D&D Treasure- Is Gold in Dungeons and Dragons Useless?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- 5e D&D Treasure- Is Gold in Dungeons and Dragons Useless?
Nerdarchy has heard one of the problems with 5e D&D is the lack of the things to spend gold and D&D treasure on. The problem isn't lack thing to spend D&D loot on but player perspective.
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Dave where did you get that Shirt. I want one
Are you guys aware of Season 9 and the rules changes for Adventure League? Maybe a good topic so as to inform new and old-school players
Hold the phone! Where did the hands go for when Ted says, "Attune to that notification bell."?
Can I hire a adventurer with magic items, set him up to get killed, and loot his gear?
That's the most evil yet effective thing I've ever heard of
The real question would that be murder or a conspiracy to commit murder?
Nerdarchist Dave
@@Nerdarchy Both.
Why not both! Nah, it'd be more of conspiring to commit murder. BUT, dead men tell no tales... or carry magic items. Unless one of those said dead men happens to be a Death Knight, with a +3 Shortsword of Lifestealing. Or they're a Crypt Lord from AD&D. Meh, I'm just on a tangent again
Nerdarchy Who said you had intent? >;) Maybe I just hoped that brave adventurer could slay the dreaded Alchemist who poisoned the town...Who knew he'd be eaten by a Gelatenous Cube and his equipment would sit alone in the sewer amidst the Oozes being?!?
I'm gonna melt down all my gold pieces and trim my armour like I'm playing Old School Runescape
YES MY FUCKIN HOMIE GET THAT SHIT
"Will trim armor, just 100k per item"
*reported for scamming*
I prefer silver. It'll be cheaper too, and I can be a ghost puncher.
You don't have enough gold to buy a party hat.
Would it also so broken in the sense you can sell it for more than added gold ?
I really like the skits which highlights the problem quickly in the intro, a really nice adition!
Glad you are enjoying they are fun to do.
Nerdarchist Dave
I second this. Entertaining! But, hopefully, the last time we see either of you in a dress. lol.
My group one time set out to rebuild a city we "accidently" burned down, and make in our image. The paladin and priest got their own temples, my fighter became the city guard captain and protector of the area, and our royal wizard/rogue became mayor of the town and got his own wizard's tower, and also was lord of an underground crime syndicate who controlled the city behind the scenes.
You can always hire an army and try to carve yourself an empire. :)
Tywin Lannister: Gold wins wars
Absolutely a thing that can be done.
Nerdarchist Dave
You, sir, have the right idea. But why hire an army when you can raise the bandits that attack your hold as undead? Don't gotta be evil about it, these are bloodthirsty murderers that are now under your command doing good things... Such as protecting your citizens. And killing bandits... To increase their numbers.
Damn now I need to make a wizard...
A Lannister always pays..doesn't have the same ring to it without gold.
20 Soldiers from Zentarim will cost you 80g a day.
A character having goals and ambitions is a key to good RP. Great video, love the comedy skits you've been putting in.
Nice to know our effort is being appreciated. We are having fun with them.
Nerdarchist Dave
THANK YOU FOR NOT SHOWING SAID CLEAVAGE! -The Internet
You know wanted it.
Nerdarchist Dave
Haha. I wasn't here for this video. It was fun to watch
Our DM threw a Dragon at us and forgot the two of us who were there were the ranger and the alchemist, so we harvested the entire dragon after taking one of the more valuable pieces going back to base buying a ship and crew, then using it to transport the rest of the dragon back to base and sell it then we established an independent country on an island after taking over the native tribes and created one of the world's most powerful navies. This is what happens when almost all your rolls are over 20 on checks for harvesting the different pieces of a dragon. If you're wondering what the valuable piece was you don't want to know but think whales.
You took his beluga?!
You took the Dragons blow hole? You monsters!
Every little piece~ ruclips.net/video/Ya7mwQYeICQ/видео.html
@@BeaglzRok1 Ahhh, Pete's Dragon. Literally the very first movie I saw in a movie theatre. (kind of exposing my age here) The 2nd being Star Wars a New Hope.
Happy Memories.
The most valuable ACTUAL part would have been the magical organ that powers the dragon breath and the magic flowing to their wing muscles, though to my understanding harvesting that improperly causes a lot of damage to the one who messes it up too.
Before watching: gold has exactly as much use in your campaign as you give it. There are campaigns where the entire point is to gain and spend money, there are others where you could go the whole campaign without seeing a single coin and be no worse off.
First statement couldn't be truer, but we tackle it from a player buy point of view.
Nerdarchist Dave
I think this excellent point applies to all aspects of the game. No game can retain focus on all the elements available, so we all do this cherry picking to some extent.
To Dave's point, the DM also needs to consider his players wants for their PCs. For example in one of my current games, I didn't plan on gold being important either being an overrun fey wild heavy world, until I saw my Rogue's face fall when i sort of hand waved a numerical value when they did find some coins. Same applies to any part of the game. Alignment is another good example. It may not matter unless someone wants it to.
The problem is when you're rewarded with piles of gold even at a low level, yet farmers can't scrape together a few coins.
it definitely depends on what kind of game you're running. When I dm my players can buy magic items (at reasonable prices. I hate the dms that go "ok, you can buy this +1 longsword but it costs 10,000gp". if you do that you suck.), find trainers to buy stat increases, there are libraries and colleges in several towns that give wizards full access to their spell lists if they have the money. then ofcourse you brought up the buildings, the businesses, and the basic uses for money.
Do the spastic items or categories have suggested retail prices/price ranges? Where do I find it in the DM Guide?
@ToonEzon DMG, right before the magic items, it has a very loose guide.
A +1 sword is suggested to be around 5000gp, so 10k is only twice the suggested price
EDIT: a +1 sword is 500gp in the DMG, not 5000, so 10k would be a huge up charge
ToonEzon the price in the dmg is based off rarity. a rare item costs between 500 and 5000gp. so, a +2 sword should only cost 500.
DM GodComplex no, it's suggested between 500 and 5000. if you charge 5000 you suck ass. +2 is rare, +1 is uncommon. so 100 or less.
@@clericofchaos1 my bad, forgot the prices started at 500, not 5000.
Though, if the DM gives out 10 times the amount of gold you expect, but charges 5k for uncommon, it doesn't make much difference. The value of gold is relative to how much you're given
My problem with the bit about not being able to buy a magic item
You can SELL magic items just fine (there are actually rules for that) - and the rules for that specifically state the reason why it's hard to sell a magic item is because there usually aren't people who want to buy them ... so it sounds to me that BY THE RULEBOOK ITSELF there are more sellers than there are buyers... it should NOT be hard to buy a magic item [maybe find out who/where the poor guy who's trying to sell that thing might be hard but] you should be able to buy magic items if there are intrinsically more people selling then buying...
So if *YOU* can't buy the magic item please explain to me who the heck is buying these magic items that are explicitly not allowed to be bought
I like many others have felt like gold was just dead weight. Once you hit a certain point in a campaign it's hard to buy anything of value to your character. Matt Colville is releasing a supplement for purchasing strongholds and hiring followers. Seems like it will be full of fun stuff and ideas of how to spend all that gold. Worth checking out for anyone who is interested.
i like using advancement by training, so you have to pay for training, the cost of living and downtime to lvl, and am more then happy to sell magic items, knowledge of spells, property (land, vehicles) as well as hirelings and that, mercenaries so forth
Some of my players were granted a ruined keep, they then repaired and upgraded it. I borrowed Crossroad Keep from NWN2 as a guide. The players also built homes to give away to attract villagers and are working to make their area more livable and habitable.
The players are also in the habit of buying gifts for NPCs. Simple things like amber buttons to give a little colour to the npc who always wears black.
Gifts for npcs is an excellent use for gold. Especially because it's a sign they are more immersed in the game world.
Nerdarchist Dave
Eyy fellow NWN2 Player! Been a while since I played it but the whole battle of the keep was basically me yelling "stop touching mah' stuff! I payed more gold for it than your entire former Empire had in its coffers!"
My bard has a roaming band, we build arenas where we play and just leave them there for the next time.
Can I interest you in Dearn's Instant Arena?
Nerdarchist Dave
possibly but then all of my groupies wouldnt have a job lol
Rent them out when you leave, build up the local economy...
Really, I think the main issue is that 5e is a half-finished game. Now, I think its great that 5th edition reduced the overall potential of magic items compared to 3.x, and that characters are meant to be able to feel like complete characters without having magic items. But when you look at the official chart for "variant campaigns" where magic items are able to be purchased from shops? The amount of items it implies a party is supposed to have is absolutely staggering. And to be honest, I'm pretty sure the majority of groups prefer to have magic items as well because of the fun they can bring.
But at some point, wotc decided that they should treat magic items as "DLC" despite the economy still being built around it. They're still actually meant to be part of the game, but they half-assed its inclusion because they weren't "necessary" despite the system originally being balanced around having magic items. After all, even with magic items being used in-game, as long as you don't use homebrewed stuff a lot of previous pitfalls are avoided. +5 longswords are gone, the grand majority of stat increasing items are gone, and most of the powerful items have to be attuned to, so you're never able to stack more than 3 powerful effects at a time.
Now don't get me wrong. The actual balancing of the magic items rarity-wise are absolutely awful, but that's partly due to them being "DLC" that they just half-assedly threw in to let the DM decide how to use. I mean really, a pair of gloves that set your strength to 19 only being worth between 500 and 1000 gold? Are you fucking kidding me, wotc? In the grand scheme of things, I think 5e is well-balanced, but wotc really did just say fuck it to one of the most fun aspects of the game, not bothering to implement it properly and making the DMs have to work it out themselves, and the wonky economy is a direct result of that.
Again, don't get me wrong here. I think it's fine for DMs to be able to change things around to better suit their campaign. But you can't use that as an excuse for an awful baseline to work off of. If the DMs were left to decide everything, there would be no need for different editions of D&D in the first place. If you're fine with homebrewing absolutely everything, I hate to break it to you, but D&D really isn't for you.
The forge domain cleric can change the material of whatever they create. So you could just pump out golden daggers or whatever to increase your wealth by selling them.
Gold matters in my game so I actually had to limit some of the forge clerics abilities for my game. One player wanted to play as one for the one reason of turning cheap iron bars into expensive plate armour and then sell it so I said sorry but no.
@@bluephoenix222 that's a little unfair... It's kinda the main thing that makes the domain worthwhile. That's it's purpose. Making things. Limiting that additionally is like telling a paladin they need to smite less
@@torunsmok5890 Not really the same thing, it takes almost zero effort for the forge cleric to become a millionaire. Just start with proficiency in artisan tools and off you go, buying some iron bars for spare change and turning them into thousands of gold coins worth of plate armour within a few minutes. The other players would leave the table if I just let that happen because they need to work for their gold. That's why I don't allow it.
He can still make things, as long as it doesn't turn cheap items into super expensive armour/weapons within a few minutes.
@@bluephoenix222 you'd have to find a client who wants to buy it first though.
While that is true there is one major problem with that,if all he does is sell a bunch of gold items, eventually,he'll end up flooding the market,and gold will basically useless,what he could do is charge to turn people's normal weapons golden,that way people still get their gold tool fix,but they aren't being flooded,so the people that want it can get it,but the value of gold doesn't just tank almost immediately
I have an idea lads.
-get gold
-save up gold until it reaches critical mass
-buy a plot of land and build a fort on the land
- build a lab
-hire and or kidnap x amount of spell casters until you are satisfied.
-hire and or force them into making magic items for you
-sell the meg their items and keep the op ones
-eventually due to the large amount of magic items circulating in the world and the fact that you have horded all the gold you cause a Great Depression.
-with the world in chaos, you and your party go out and reclaim all the magic items.
-profit
My problem with money in dnd is how worthless bronze/silver is.
I'm currently running the Pathfinder 2.0 beta and they've done much the same thing, gold is the domain of the very wealthy, characters start out with very little money, but almost all the starting gear including weapons and armour is costed in copper or silver, and only the most rare, expensive or magical items are valued in gold.
Heck, a suit of full plate is 300 silver (30 gold).
I use that to bribe NPCs. Or keep it around for exact change. And in some cities I exclusively carry copper in case of pickpockets.
Well I like the story element if bronze and silver because it shows the divide of wealth in a DND setting. In our world most of us deal in one's ten's and twenties but most of the affluent people in our world deal in hundreds like we do our one's. Having silver and bronze apart of the game establishes that same principal while showing the characters that they're very rich
Like anything else in the game they'll have as much value as you give them. In a world where gold is super rare using the other coins would illustrate that.
As others have said commoners may never see or touch a single gold coin their whole lives.
Nerdarchist Dave
Tip your contract employees!
Lets see...have to pay my rent, its easier to pay rent in certain parts of Faerun then buying a home, new bed and sheats, matress, roof needs patching up again as last winter really woore it down, recharge the enchantment on my ring and amulet, fix my armor, new belt and yah that comes arround 850 gold pieces and 84 silvers
Another way to spend that accumulated wealth is having to pay trainers to level up... quality trainers aren't cheap and they definitely have direct benefits to their characters
I was running a campaign where the players wanted to invent canned goods; several sessions, one time skip, and numerous d100 rolls later canned goods are now a million gp business supplying every general store in the land
Just like virtually every "is X broken?" video you guys put up, the answer is "only if the DM makes it / allows it to become so".
My characters got a small tower extremely early that they know they can upgrade for around 7k gold and they are still talking about what to do with it. I've put magic item shops in a small number of towns that they can buy uncommon or low end rare items. Is it perfect? Probably not at all, though it's gotten the players to ask for monetary reward when accepting quests or looting
Yup it's true. The DM and players are usually the best defense against brokenness.
Nerdarchist Dave
I disagree with your premise. The gold economy isn't broken by DM's being negligent. The fact that there's so much gold and costs are so low in comparison, combined with most DMs and players not wanting to complicate their travels with encumbrance and the need to replenish consumables creates the gold bloat. In other words, it's the RAW that are broken, not the DM's negligence.
Blaming a poorly thought-out mechanics on DMs who are inexperienced and trust the system to work is absolutely ridiculous.
Exactly. By the Nerdarchy reply above's logic, there's no such thing as a broken system, only a broken DM.
@@kdolo1887 what's broken about the gold economy? Is it the fault of the rules that the players can't think of what to do with their wealth? It's a role playing game. The gold opens up possibilities for more role playing. If the players can't think beyond what the book specifically puts in front of them that's not a failing of the game.
I would make customized weapons and armors
Why use the ugly plate armor a bandit dropped when you can buy the amazing red plate armor with a black dragon in the chestplate?
That is an amazing design for armor. Although every time you go into the wild and get into a fight it'll get scratched. So you'll have to pay more gold to get it shining. A cool consistent use of gold
The dm could even give it a plus to intimidation or speech depending on how masterfully crafted it is
Dis guy ^ gets it.
Nerdarchist Dave
Sell them a ground-effects package for their armor. Make it change colors or play entry music or have a phantom drink holder. PCs have no sense of what to spend their money on and enchanters and craftsman will see them come into town with that Wagon of Gold and will start elbowing the people who are looking for legitimate investors out of the way so they can sell them magical self-cleaning underwear to help them deal with the 7 week wine binge they've been contemplating all the way back from the Haunted Keep.
Typically plate armor was shiny, almost mirror. Painting over it wouldn't cost much.
Yep, the commonality here the DM gives up a little control of story and let the players drive the story, and this is a good thing, at times.....
Ive never had a problem with gold.... Just always give them something to buy (that they want) but they never have enough to buy all of what they need
Cade Carter till your dm put you in a situation that your supposed to run or some shit and end up pulling some tricks lol.
I think one of the main issues is that adventurers have no issues finding a nice amount of gold at 1st level while most townsfolk barely have a few coppers to rub together. After one adventure, the PCs are already living comfortably. Flipping the bartender a GP for an ale that only costs 2sp is a common occurrence. I have long considered putting a bit more emphasis on the lower denominations if I run another future homebrew campaign. The early levels find a nice amount of CP and SP... as they advance in levels, and dungeons or paid-quests get more challenging, I would move into EP, then GP...
Do it! I'm running a campaign where gold is scarce, and I find that it opens up a lot of interesting opportunities. Even though the party I'm running for is currently 7-8 level, many can't even afford optimal armour or mounts. Furthermore, many of the antagonists have power over the PCs due to their financial superiority and the advantages it brings. Having said that, my campaign is not a typical dungeon-delve type, and thus requires a certain amount of buy-in from the players. For example, we frequently go sessions without combat where the party struggles to work with (or against) NPCs in an effort to get to the bottom of mysteries while attempting to resolve social and political dilemmas.
People actually use EP? My group just ignores that currency.
Yeah you can push your campaign to a "silver standard" if you want it to feel more medieval. Of course, in Medieval Tymes most transactions weren't even in coin, which was pretty rare.
crimfan Yea, most transactions were through trade right?
Actually, I would want to push more towards a silver standard to balance out the players' wealth in relation to the costs of goods in towns and cities. In the early levels of their career, they would still live comfortable, but actually, need to be a bit frugal with their coin.
Looked it up, says 1 gp can get you a goat, which in USD is $75-$300. Averages to about $175, but let's round to $200 for simplicity.
What can $200 buy?
I understand it's a *fantasy* game, however this either can simplify (or overcomplicate) the idea of gold.
Note:
1 gp is also said to buy 50ft if rope...more like rappelling rope costs, honestly.
1 gp is also said to buy a bedroll...that's some pretty nice one, not some pad.
Consider the increased cost of goods before mass production. That rope is hand spun, the bedroll hand woven.
+Alex Bell
Yes! Now you're thinking.
Economics in each area will differ. I believe that's why the example was so ambiguous & generic...
One gold piece (unspecified amount/weight) =
- 1 Goat (or equivalent analog), unspecified size, age, quality, breed, etc.
- 50 feet (~15 1/4 meters) of rope, unspecified material.
- 1 bedroll (unspecified quality).
1000 gold = 1000 goats? I see exp farming :| ....
@@alexbell3034
Yep, handwoven bedroll. In a emulation of a medieval world, when labour was cheaper then in bangladesh.
od&d gold prices were based on a specific medieval price list document and coinage though the name escapes me.
i used that and adjusted for inflation and got $2 to 1sp, which matched up with many other costs well, comparing apples to apples quality-wise and adjusting for mass production. So the goat costs $20. Cheaper than today, but goats were more common and less was spent on their wellbeing, no antibiotics or anything just fed yard grass and that's enough.
MY character, and his group actually re in debt atm. Got tricked by a lender who charges insane interest rates. Weirdly, I don't think he's a human. I think hes a spider that is taking control of human corpses because we have actually seen a spider, who was being commanded BY this guy, take control of a corpse right in front of us.. Even in the world of D&D, you cant' escape payday lenders.
Lol wow that's an amazing story and a great application of wealth and the lack there of
Digging the spider zombie concept.
Nerdarchist Dave
Cancel the debt peacefully...maybe offer to sell some fine silk (from them), tailor-made clothes, linens, etc. They supply, you can own (and maybe just hire staff to manage) the retail and textile part.
@@draxthemsklonst but they are clearly evil... because they are high interest lenders.
@@kekvult3730 Ha, yeah. I figure that depends on if your character is more lawful (follow the laws, even if they're evil/immoral/unethical) or good...or even evil. Also: they may be able to help in a dungeon or underdark or wherever. Spiders are good spy-ders. Also, who says that they aren't going through hard times, or testing the business savviness of you and your crew to see if you know how to barter?
My character Cerro makes quite a bit of gold. He typically uses said gold to purchase healing potions, armor, custom pieces of equipment (that spring activated boot knife holster has yet to come in handy but one day...) but most importantly, Cerro is VERY generous with gold with the town folk, guards, and barkeeps, a good way to build allies is to shell out the coin.
Can't I use gold and money to hire services, not just purchase items? Or maybe bribe a guard etc
Absolutely can.
Nerdarchist Dave
also making magic items costs gold. the more powerful the item the more gold it costs.
I completely agree I have an artificer who I home brewed my own mechanics to give her the ability to make any item she wants it just costs gold and the more powerful the item the more gold to make it
Depends on the campaign. In our games it's super rare for a magic item to be made. Especially by a player character. The making of a magic item would require questing.
Nerdarchist Dave
What ever happened to your guys weekly critical role reviews I liked those
With only doing 3 videos a week we really had to decide what content we wanted to focus. Sadly CR reviews didn't make the cut.
Nerdarchist Dave
Old school d&d required gold to lvl up, not only exp...I like it
I love when DnD players bemoan the fact that there's no mechanics for so many things and then complain about games that have mechanics for too many things.
Yea can be kind of typical.
Nerdarchist Dave
After playing and prepping various systems, I think the largest issue is the balance and how intuitive it is. Haveing to roll on 50 tables just to determine the results of 1 attack is one thing, but having guidlines or tables for the endless situations is another, as long as it doesn't end up bogging down what you do
My Party decided to train a towns children in to an assassins guild.
A bit of a nerd rage here, but you guys are waaaaaaaaaay off on this one. I am going to ask you whether or not you've ever read Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stories (or other similar low fantasy)? If not, get on it. This is the kind of stuff that Gygax built the game on, and the reason why WOTC sucks is because it is clear their people have no grounding in it. The DM needs to let the players feel the friction of the world their characters live in by making them pay bills!!!! Everyone needs a job. Adventurer is a profession that the characters choose to make money to fucking survive!!! Since WOTC wants a video-game-like experience for its players, DMs have to make up that mechanic themselves -- a timekeeping system and a schedule for when the characters pay their bills at regular time intervals (e.g., every month in game time) in order to maintain a social class and/or advance to a higher one (or regress to a lower one if they fail to do so). Then -- after paying the bills -- they roll on a consequence table, with poorer social classes having a greater chance of facing some sort of problem like disease, hunger or being a victim of crime. These consequences would have real game impact -- maybe they lose some constitution or strength while they are sick or hungry, or maybe they get a magic item stolen? This kind of system would drive players to look for adventure work to make ends meet. All this bullshit you guys are talking about is for high level characters who have hit the jackpot on a few hauls, but that should not be the norm. How about making them pay in time and money to level up? Even a Warlock should have to learn the craft from a master or do deeds for the entity with whome a pact is made. Jesus F. Kaboodle, the 5e characters are already comic book superheroes, now they have to be little fucking Trumps too? Why don't they just work for Goldman Sachs? Put some grit in your game: make the players pay for fucking around like they would in any other game. Middle Age life was described as "nasty, brutish and short" but D&D is far too easy on people. Make them pay up or the tax collector comes and beats the shit out of these little spoiled pukes!!! OK, thanks and have a nice day.
The things that bejeweled the paladin's mount are called BAU-bles not Baaaaa-bles
Your best intro yet!
Glad you enjoyed it.
Nerdarchist Dave
I have a monk character who gives away all his gold to orphans and the poor. That's one way to use it.
Currently playing a Fighter whose personal code is to help the poor, so she gives all of her money to the poor side of town so that she can help the orphans and poor kids be well fed and educated.
Edit: as a result, I constantly have no gold to spend on myself to upgrade my own items XD
Hello Nerds.
Gold... Both a problem and a tool.
For most DMs, gold can be a problem. But, that is because they are not encouraging their Players to use that wealth, other than to buy magical items.
In a recent gaming session, I played a female Centaur Ranger, who is one of the daughters of a centaur baron. The character became a Ranger, and seeing that she was not the heir, she left to find her own fortune in the world outside the barony.
This lead to finding a party, going on adventures, and collecting wealth. As a result, she became 'famous' enough that her father 'knighted' her and give her a Fief to control. The fief was basically a ruined village and surrounding land.
Although the place was in 'ruins', it did have a few undamaged, or lightly damaged buildings. The village's original 'keep' was lightly damaged, but the headquarters of a group of raiders that preyed upon local trade caravans.
Clearing out the bandits was not really a problem for the Party, and as a form of thanks from the new knight, she granted them each their own home in the village. Yes, they would have to repair and furnish it, but at least they had a place of their own.
The Knight Centaur spent her funds on rebuilding the village and getting people to inhabit it. Especially farmers for the vacant farms surrounding the village. She brought in Dwarven Smiths to help them rebuild the village's smithy and expand it. Same with the Merchant's buildings, and others.
The Noble Lady Knight Centaur resides in the Keep in the village, and 'rules' her fief from that location. When she goes on further adventures, she places her seneschal in charge, supported by her chief armsman who is the village's sheriff, and another retainer who acts as the village's 'mayor'.
She also built a totally new school building in the village and hired teachers to teach both the young and the adults. Special 'night' classes are held twice a week, for anyone that cannot attend classes due to working hours during the day. By doing so, the Knight hopes to raise literacy in her village above that seen in other villages and most towns.
The village shrine was repaired and rededicated to one of the Party's gods, and that person is the village priestess for the fief.
Another expenditure was actually at the beginning of things, after clearing the bandits. And that was hiring a few craftsmen, and a couple dozen commoners to do the rebuilding of the village's structures. As more funds became available, more people were hired to repair things faster, until after only a year or so, the entire village was reconstructed. Half of the work crews were excused to set up businesses, bring in their wives and children, or to leave the fief if they desired. The rest went to work on the Knight's various projects. Like building a school, a bathhouse, granaries, a mill, a smithy, a forge, and other such improvements to the village.
After many years of improvements, post the repair period, the village was extended and walled in, as well as building better walls for the keep, and expanding it as well. And then turning the river that ran through the village into a moat around the village to add protection.
All of this was being monitored by the lady knight's father, the baron, who had given her the ruined village as a fief to not have to send his guards in every year or so to clear out the bandits, that would return again later. Rebuilding the village and luring in new citizens, as well as being a source of employment for gradually less and less of the overall population of the village, impressed the baron.
Enough so, that he named my character as the heir to the barony upon the baron's death.
So, going from 'too much money' to constantly searching for ever more wealth to fund her dreams, resulted, after a decade or so, in her becoming her father's legal heir to the barony itself.
This answer depends on the individual game.
Are you playing ROLE Playing Game or a ROLL playing game? If you are playing a ROLL PG then all that really matters is the plusses. Allow them to adventure for components and pay someone to make items, buy rune tattoos for stat bonuses. Make them have components.
If you are playing a ROLE PG then building businesses, keeps, armies and etc will matter.
There needs to be understanding of economy. The reality is that the cost for everyday common items is based on a $1 equals 1 copper so a gold piece is worth $100. An import thing is that in a mid-evil world where there is no manufacturing so complex things require enormous labor. Glass, small metal parts are difficult yo make to precise standards is extremely expensive. The costs for these things should increase exponentially compared to modern day prices. The amount of treasure handed out needs to be based on the worth of gold.
I've been running a campaign of the old Mongoose d20 Conan system, where there's literally a rule called "high living" where adventurers who come upon fabulous wealth habitually blow most of it on booze, gambling and sexy fun times. That scene in the first movie where Arnie and co pass out in their soup? That. XD
Money was always rather tight in campaigns when I first started playing D&D in the 80's. It seems like the gold piece that was once worth $100 in real world money is now worth $1 and I think that's just because players never really see the downside of being poor in a high fantasy world that is devoid of real problems. In my campaigns, feudal lords run everything so people must pay for a pass to enter a city and pay a fee to be a resident. A guild might cover such fees, but you need to pay dues every month to be a member. Even Clerics are sent out for the purpose of ministry and collecting money for their temple. When you give everyone bills to pay that gold becomes really important. If a player has no money and gets picked up for vagrancy or even worse unlicensed begging they get to work in a salt mine or other public works project until that fine is paid off. Make poverty something to be feared and people have a reason to risk their lives to go out and slay monsters and players will work hard to improve their social standing as they level up.
All spell casters that have gold cost spells. Sometimes 500-5000 is needed to cast a damn spell sometimes.Horses, lodging and food are more. Sometimes weapons break. Making and buying potions, scrolls and other one use helpful items. Clothes you don't have but need to keep warm or blend in are also helpful. Gold is very important to the game.
In my opinion the players should be able to buy magic items. Maybe not everywhere, but in some sparse, rare shops or even from a lone merchant wandering the lands. The fact that D&D lacks almost completely of a magic item economy to me seems like a lazy decision made by the authors of 5e. They say that magic items are so rare that almost no one wants to sell them and that's why they didn't give us a value for every item, but that's a sad excuse that made them save time and effort. If I buy a tabletop book it should give me all the mechanics for that game, if I have to homebrew half of the content, then what am i paying for?
Used a lot of my money to build my own thieves guild in AD&D.
This has been in the workings for 1 1/2 reallife years. I am excited!
get out of your tiny villages and go to the planes, 10M gp in Sigil wont buy much...LMAO
Here's a problem I've tended to have, unless I've missile it, Is there anything on the suggested retail price for the various magic items from common to legendary and beyond? I haven't really seen it. In fact, it'd have been smattering you have suggested gold prices in the item description, so the gm can adjust if need be, but also, it'd make it much easier to go shopping, especially if you're starting at higher levels where you are to have obtained some magic items
My group of players would of walked out on me if they could not buy magic items . For them that was main reason to get gold and jewels . They could not buy something like say Excalibur or any one of a kind item was off limits but the players could buy a magic weapon or a Flying carpet etc .
I like the use of gold that’s in the Black Hack, where you level up by carousing and have to spend money to party and gain fame for yourself.
At a basic level you have to buy rations and travel supplies all the time and unless you get a huge reward that should keep your total gold down. Then there are all of the down time activities that gold has to be spent on. Going farther, even if your game has minimum or "no" magic there should be potions to represent herbal remedies and + weapons for well made items that you can get as well. There are ships and structures you can buy to start businesses or have safe houses. It is up to both RP and the DM to create gold sinks so that it does not feel like you are swimming in gold. A huge amount of gold could also be a way to switch to a new character if for example your character decides to retire or to get your character training to learn new skills or maybe even gain a level.
So ya on a pure mechanics standpoint gold at some point becomes useless, but it still has its uses. My issue with gold though is the value on some items compared to other items to the point that if you act as if a few gold is a lot for a commoner than some of the items prices are way higher than they should be compared to other items of similar everyday value.
I recommend bills, spell copied into spell book, diamonds and other rare spell components, and Ale. My players will go homeless before they give up ale.
If you're playing at an Adventurer's League table, all that gold is glued to the floor and you'll never get your hands on it anyway! lol
Hmm , if I had coins without limit ... I would simply hire adventurers to fetch me unique things. I would be the quest giver instead of the quest taker.
If my PCs need something like a Restoration Spell or Resurrection they'd better be damn sure they have the coin to pay for it at the Temple, the nuns there have a Dragon Turtle to appease.
Temples? Schools? Merchants? Nah brah I like earning money by giving guys the ole stabby stab.
As a DM part of your job is to make sure that the party has to be concerned about money. Firstly don't hand out massive amounts of coins - in reality most wealth was in forms other than straight metal coinage. Also, if the party wants to maintain a base of any kind, have NPCs to assist them, if they need to obtain rare materials or knowledge, or if they just want a pimping castle, all of that takes money not just to build but to upkeep as well.
My current party needs to adventure into a large area of wilderness that lacked any town or location were they could store things or recover between adventures. So they cleared the monsters out of a old fortress and patched it up. But then they needed a garrison to protect it while they were absent. Then they needed to obtain food and supplies for the garrison. Slowly a small settlement grew up inside the fort's walls. So they hired a retired adventurer to act as the Senechal so they didn't need to worry about keeping the accounts.
But all that requires cash, and although the fort & settlement occasionally makes a small amount from taxes and passing merchant traffic, it is a ritual that whenever the party returns the Senechal will arrive with two men carrying the big coin chest. The Senechal starts reading out the accounts - the players cut him off with "how much this time?" - and the players are soon a bit poorer. If the players baulk at the sum the men rattle the coin chest to show how empty it is.
But the fort will eventually play a major part in the campaign backstory, so the cost will be worth it.
Let’s calculate how much a half million gold pieces would be worth. Assuming they weigh as much as a Spanish Doubloon (.218) Troy ounces that is 109,000 Troy ounces. A Troy ounce is a bit heavier than a standard ounce equaling 14.583 Troy ounces to a pound. So, we are carting around 7,474.5 pounds of gold! The price of gold today is $1,201.90 per ounce. That gives us a dollar value for half a million gps as $131,007,100! I don’t know. I think it’s going to take a while to spend 131 million dollars.
It also depends on the Campaign as Healing Potions can cost Gold, if the Campaign allows for Training as way of advancing in level or earning feats or even proficiency in stuff, could also cost Gold.
In terms of "Spending Gold for Magic Items", that also depends on the Campaign Setting because if it is a setting with low/moderate Magic then you won't be able to buy Magic Items readily as a Player might like. Whereas if the Setting has Moderate/High Magic, then Players could spend Gold/Platinum on Magical Items.
Also, DM's/Players can also throw in needing to spend Gold on "maintenance costs" to upkeep repairs on Armor, Equipment, Weapons, etc. To purchases Material Components for Spells that consumes the Material Components like Find Familiar & Heroes Feasts, replacement equipment, armor, weapons, etc if their stuff breaks or gets stolen, etc.
gold is only as usefull as the DM will allow it to be. I tend to be the type of person who thinks of hirelings, crazy projects, explosives and buildings when I see gold. anything that can turn my gold into something fun really.
It very much depends on the type of campaign being played. As for cost of things, such as building and hiring troops (say for the climatic battle at the end of a long campaign), the older editions can serve as guidelines still. I started with the boxed sets which had levels up to 36. And then Immortals. With that length of time characters were inspired to spend that gold. Many armies and navies fought in my older campaigns. The good part of 5e is the money doesn't count as experience, which, with 20 levels, gives the DM time to put these types of situations or chance of experiences out for his players to bite at. A good hook can help.😏
So technically. Gold is useful only on sessions ran outside adventures league.
Best intro ever
Ya gotta put it in them thar hills!
I love using gold as a way to upgrade my players keep, they find 10,000 good why not build a giant wall or hire a band of mercenaries to defend your keep.
My players take the gold and tranfer it to Silver so they can make stuff (Swords,Bullets,A new arm for the Artificer,Ect)
In our campaign we have barely 200gp at Lvl 12. Most of it went to repairing our ship after we got into a combat with pirates and then swapped ships. Barely any magic items either.
At least spellcasters have material costs and magical item crafting.
nice
Gold to me is always a way of bribing people. I spend a lot of time in games figuring out who to bribe to better my situation.
One of my drow characters stole a tavern by swiping the deed, another character killed a gorgon and we mounted the head on the entrance and renamed it the rusty gorgon inn.
I laughed. Well played gentlemen.
Our pleasure.
Nerdarchist Dave
Coin in 5E still seems to me to have great value. You have to live and that means supplies, material components for spells, animal mounts, healing potions...If you are an adventurer that has no coin...you are going to be run out of town most likely. Gaining the coin is a worthy part of that adventure to me.
My Pathfinder Character has invested in a couple of inns as a silent partner.
Ideas for gold uses:
*Bribe anyone
*Feed the poor or commission the rebuilding of structures to earn town favour
*Commission wizards and other experts to research new technologies
*buy transport
*buy businesses/inns which you can then use to gather information about anyone who spends time there.
*go to the blacksmith to upgrade your weapons (we use home-brewing that allows weapons to deteriorate after being used to parry deady foe strikes. Upgraded weapons also incrementally increase damage to foes.
*commission the building of new dungeons
*commission building fortification of cities or newly established towns
*paying sell swords to protect your stash of already accumulated gold
*establish a BANK
*establish a specialist insurance agency for other adventurers in event of death
* commission exploration across uncharted seas
*smelt down and guild all of your armour in gold, because why not?😂
Given how gold is so common and heavy, items are so expensive, and that other currency is more precious, gold is relatively useless. In real life, the whole point is that it's a a precious, rare metal. Even silver and copper are relatively speaking. Part of thr problem is not grounding your story enough which leads to Dragon Ball Z level exaggeration and levels. The only way to make it so your character can run around naked is gear porn, which after a point, is also unrealistic and rediculous. Pretty soon everyone has an armor class of 38, 200Hp, all weapons are enchanted, and anything less valuable than a gem isn't worth putting in your coin purse. (So basically, no coins)
Dave: He wanted . . . babbles . . . From the context, is it safe to assume that you were going for *baubles*?
Ted: Mighty Fortress is actually a 1/week for permanency package. That doesn't detract from what you said at all; it's just good to keep in mind that it's a weekly spell, which helps to offset its higher spell slot and material cost.
Pretty nice discussion, guys.
+1 subscriber. That intro won me over lol
The whole point of having all those charts and tables for 'Living Expenses' and 'wages' and so on. Moderate Lifestyle is about 1 GP per day. So it's fair to say that you can pay someone that much for many kinds of non-hazardous tasks. Open your own business? Sure. Charity? Sure. Start a school. Found a town. All kinds of things.
Purchasing property or starting organizations can be a great way to put that gold to use, as well as to create the potential for more and varied stories.
-Loot is heavy. If your table really takes Encumbrance seriously, there's going to be a point where the party can't haul around all their wealth. Not unless they have portable holes or bags of holding, and not all parties do. The party could contract hirelings and pack animals to haul their wealth, but that makes them a roaming target for thieves and bandits, and their hirelings may decide to make off with the stuff themselves. So it could be a good idea to invest in property, for no other reason than to have a place to store their stuff. It would also give arcane casters a good use for spells like Arcane Lock, and the various warding magics. Not to mention the party could use it as an excuse to hire guards, or even gain the services of monsters who can watch over the stash. Like, the party finds a dragon egg, and in the process of raising it decide to have it be their "guard dog". Nothing deters thieves quite like a dragon. (Just remember to set aside a part of the gold for the dragon, when she gets old enough to want to start her own hoard somewhere else. It's the duty of parents to provide for their children, and part of any dragon's development is their hoard.)
-If the Cleric founds a temple, that allows them to further the worship of their god. But it also means they'll become a target for Fiends, who don't like the proliferation of goodness in the world. Demons might attack the temple or its worshipers, whereas Devils might try to send agents to infiltrate and undermine it.
-Wizards (and Ritual Casters) love their magic, but not all spells can just be found out in the wild. Some spells might not be recorded on any surviving spell books, or may be found on exactly one spellbook...that is in the private collection of a Lich. Regardless, it can be a difficult or impossible prospect to find a particular spell written down, not even getting into spells the PC might want to _invent_ . So an alternative would be to Research. Xanathar's Guide focuses on Research as a result of finding knowledge that already exists (and paying for the privilege), but one could easily run Research like original experimentation. So if the character needs a spell or the recipe for a magic item, they could hop inside a laboratory or workshop, and grind out Lore (the book's term) that can be used to invent (or re-invent) the spell or recipe. But you need to HAVE a lab or workshop, and preferably one stocked with equipment, reference books, raw materials, and even assistants. Hence, why Wizards build wizard towers; it's an isolated place where they can explore the mysteries of magic in peace. And maybe train some apprentices, who can work as assistants as charge for their magical education.
pay other adventurers to go explore other dungeons and give you the items they find. The world is full of dungeons full of treasure, even if stores that sell magical items don't exist in your campaign, there is little reason why you can't pay someone to explore for you and fetch you items.
Something players need to be taught is that Gold is how you express your player will over the world the DM is trying to create. Like sure you can let the town have its own guards, but what if as a player you dedicate gold and time to hiring out your own Militia and gear for them, and then you hire out commoners to help build or staff an inn of your own, now you have mercs that can bully people during downtime. Then you start getting bigger or better equipped than the town guards, people start relying on your mercs over the town guards, then maybe you BECOME the town guards because the previous guard captain just wasn't working out.
Like make sure my gold does something in game by letting me shape part of the setting the I am in.
Maybe if we travel a lot I hire a posse to team wagons and animals along so we can carry back all the fat stacks of loot. Maybe I hire out guards to stand watch for us because I want to protect the fat stacks of loot from bandits. Sure I can only carry so much, but my teamsters have their wagons and after the cave is cleared out they can go through and loot every individual sword and stool we want.
Maybe as a wizard if we operate out of a town I hire a Scrivener to make scrolls from a replicated version of my spell book and sell some of them to maintain my scroll supply.
Maybe as a rogue I regularly hire Couriers to bring packages across to a network of fences throughout the world who have never met one another nor me, but know I pay well if they are safe for selling information or goods.
This stuff can create mechanical benefits as well, the option of taking downtime actions, or having hooks in towns im not in pop up because I pay these people for work. Heck with the right DM you might even be able to ask "Hey I have been paying gold for couriers to send me information on this town, do I know anything about it?" and that could prompt some sort of Charisma check in place of a Int based check to see if you know about the town or something like that.
Appreciate the little skit you guys did, well done!
We've been trying to have some fun with things. We are by no means master thespian, but it is fun anyway.
Nerdarchist Dave
I like the idea of letting players spend treasure on carousing or lifestyle or donation to the church, and those things giving them some in-game benefit, like status, contacts, luck, inspiration, or whatever. I'm going to try to create a mechanic for that.
In real life, noblemen would be captured and ransomed back to their families for huge sums. I suspect players would rather die. :-)
Another thing you can do is get merchants to convince the heroes to invest in their venture trade company. Then the heroes have a reason to protect shipments from bandits and pirates and monsters and can lose lots of money when a ship sinks in a storm.
I think your close ups are a little jarring because you are both very animated people. Your limbs are usually wiggling in and out of frame and it makes it difficult to watch. Please pull your closeups out a bit more. : p
Thank you for another awesome video. One of the characters I made wanted to buy a boat and maintain it. So all the extra gold went into crew and better cooks. Allowing fun oppurtnity to buy the chefs at Inns we would stop at.
That opening was solid 👌
Gold buys power and influence. My players have started a merchant bank, funded an intel network, commissioned a temple and invested in spell component sales.
84.600 GOLD in one day with the FORGE CLERIC ¿IS THIS LEGAL?
i need help, i dont know if this work .
so i was building a caracter
its a dwarf forge cleric, and i want to know if this money making strategy works
you need a cuple things to this to work:
- be 7 lvls in cleric (forge) to have the spell fabricate
- have a tool proficiency with artisan’s tools (smith’s tools) ( racial as a dwarf)
- have a loot of resources (metal)
-make a ton of full plate armors, becouse is the more expensive one to sell
this is how it works
whit the spell fabricate and supplies you need to fabricate a plate
- the item says
Plate Armor
heavy armor (armor)
AC: 18
Category: Items
Item Rarity: Standard
Stealth: Disadvantage
Weight: 65
so you need to have 65 lb of steel, i was looking for how much cost 1lb of steel and its 4gp
so 65 lbs of metal its 325 gps and now you need to use the fabricate spell, it has illimited uses has a forge domain cleric
the spell says ;
Fabricate
4th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, and clothes from flax or wool.
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material. If you are working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a single 5-foot cube). The quality of objects made by the spell is commensurate with the quality of the raw materials.
Creatures or magic items can’t be created or transmuted by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects.
so its 10 minutes to make a 1.500 gps plate, for only 325 gps, it gives you 1175 gps in ten minutes
in one hour you make 6 plates and you sell it (repet as many times you like)
in one hour is 7050 gp for the six of them, 12 hrs of repeting this spell its 84.600 gps
my question is
¿IS THIS LEGAL? ¿I BROKE THE GAME? PLEASE DONT NERF
I noticed in bigger cities it is much easier to find groups , but in medium cities or suberbs it's a little more difficult . Like I'd look online and find way more players on the east coast or major cities.
Plus, the Group could have Party Funds which they could only use on stuff the entire Party needs, as well as could be saved up to purchase land, (depending on how long a Campaign is to be, both in terms of Sessions & "In-Game Time") purchase a Stronghold, hire people to maintain & upkeep said Stronghold, etc.
More over in terms of the "Magic in the Campaign", if the Magic is prevalent enough, Players could commission Armor, Weapons, etc to get enchanted, which would cost Gold. So the more or stronger the Enchantment, the more it will cost, where a +1 to a set of Armor, would cost (ex) 100 Gold & a couple days. Whereas commissioning the Armor to have (ex) Resistance to Fire or Bludgeoning, that would cost (ex) 500 - 1,000 Gold and ~1 Week - 1 1/2 Week.
Just off the top of my head:
1. Bribe officials/ make friends with important people by inventing in their lives.
2. Buy real estate/ swanky home. Put down roots by buying your own house.
3. Spellcasting services. Why travel two weeks by caravan when you can teleport there instantly?
4. Wizard- learn more spells and buy expensive spell components.
5. Buy a flying mount. You'll have to pay for its training, but having your own drake or griffin would be super cool.
6. Run for office/ marry a noble/ start your own organization. All involve spending money to influence people.
I have never felt like I had too much gold. Dang video gamers. New AL rules really hinder your wealth accumulation. It's like we are all on a salary.
Theres a few solutions for this but the easiest to implement is to level up with gold. Some people hate xp levelling and having xp replaced with gold encourages getting good deals and repeat business over being a murder hobo. Having to decide between that magic item and your next level up really makes gold feel valuable.
Other solutions would be to charge players for magical/medical and repair services. For this homebrew nat1s cause damage to your equipment and going into death saving throw leads to a permanent injury and lowering of max health points, perhaps broken bones. The world is rife with potential diseases and curses and your cleric cant fix them all, not for free anyway.
Make a trip to the doctors, blacksmith or consume potions and/or resources to fix these problems.
Great Video as always, guys!
You know... It might be important to point out that if you DON'T want to encourage this whole "murder people and take their shit" theme, that a relatively consistent Economic Model is probably a good idea. I know the number crunching can kind of suck, but it comes down to some fairly simple in-game math for ratios from one sized economic flow to another (each "flow" being the model of a city or town) and then adjusting for supply and demand principles...
Whenever I committed to a Map overview of the world-settings, I would note economies on towns and cities as proportionate to the "Canon Pricing Guides"... So you'd read "Economic Index" of a town as a multiplier and price stuff accordingly. It could still allow for haggling, because that's a different issue from one Table to the next... BUT even without a mechanical advantage to characters, Gold and money still DEFINITELY has purpose.
If your Players are getting bogged down under the weight and inconvenience of their own treasure troves... then maybe you're just doling out WAY TOO MUCH treasure for no purpose at all. Ever think of that?
Old school GM's have a simple principle.
"Never EVER leave shiny shit just laying around. It's neither realistic nor productive to the game. Just don't do that."
Now, I've quoted it before, and I've carried on (usually) about it's regard to Magic Items and Relics that can break the game, the adventure, or even the Table. It's worth pointing out here with Gold as well. Too much gold (or money in any system) loses the importance of getting around and paying your way. It destroys the themes of struggle since you can just throw gold at everything instead of bothering to buy ammunition. It can go so far as to bugger the mind in trying to conceive of a world where everyone is such a coward as to let any Tom Dick and Hairy Monster pop over to take all the loot and items and treasure and gems and not have so much as a pot to piss in or a window to sling it outta... AND I'd have to wonder (as an adventurer) why bother rescuing such cowards... They may very well just give up to the very next monster who or which so much as says "Boo". ;o)
Play 3.5. If you want to be the best wizard ever, take a crafting feat or 2, charge the party 20% extra on the crafting costs (to cover time spent not producing scrolls, spellglyphs, a robot army), give them trinkets OF MAGICAL POWAAAAH!
Buy a stronghold/castle?
One campaign....we ended up at 7th lvl with more gold than ANY GM would intentionally give players. the wizard started offering rewards for new spells. Brand New 3rd lvl spell? 10000 gold. Significantly new take on old spell? 1000. That's when the player breaks out a bunch adnd and 3.5 splat books....grinning
Bro. Sometimes your DM is a bit stingy with giving away the goods. Having gold on your character is awesome. You can look up items in real life that Internet you and their Average cost, and when exploring a city (almost down time activity) look for the seedy underbelly black market. That’s where you’ll be able to buy your “repeating shot” crossbows or “returning weapon” thrown weapons or your regular +1 magic weapons. Possibly a cape of the mountebank or a periapt of wound closure. But nothing there will be cheap. Go with more gold than you expect to need.