Advanced RPG Rewards & Recognition System
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- REWARDS & RECOGNITION SYSTEM | Reward your RPG players in style, not just with more gold and magic items! thedmlair.com/products/coin-c...
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Every game master knows it, and their players do, too: rewards in D&D and other RPGs are often pretty lame. Characters in Dungeons & Dragons get gold, more gold, even more gold, and magic items! From levels 1 to 20...same stuff, just more of it. But what can a dungeon master do when the core books offer few other ways to reward their RPG players? In this video, we discuss 16 advanced ways to reward D&D characters and introduce our new Rewards & Recognition system.
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Luke, which tier on Patreon would get us the Rewards and Recognition system?
Please start bookmarking your videos. You already structure your videos with #1/2/3 etc. Just *let us find the parts we want*
With regards to your idea that mass combat / large battle gaming / RP doesn't "feel" like D&D to you....
Back in 4th edition I had a group that ended up doing quite a bit of mass combat RP as a buildup, breakout, and resolution of a long war was a central backdrop to the story and the PCs found themselves participating in several battles through all three tiers of play when not delving or exploring. The combat system for 4th (which I still love) made for a really easy homebrew conversion to mass combat. Each character represents on the map and in the stats the character plus his or her troops instead of just the character. Each enemy consists of a certain number of that enemy instead of just the single one. Combat is virtually identical to just running a normal encounter as far as dice rolling and all of that. In our system, for "small", "medium", and "large" battles, the forces would have these numbers:
Minion becomes: 4 troops // 12 troops // 24 troops
Standard / PC becomes: 16 troops // 48 troops // 96 troops
Elite becomes: 32 troops // 96 troops // 192 troops
Solo becomes: 80 troops // 240 troops // 480 troops
These numbers and the fighting between them can represent the full size of each army but it will usually represent the fighting on just one wing of a larger battle involving larger forces than the encounter combat shows. In those cases where the action on the battle map only represents part of the overall battle, the players will participate in a skill challenge between each round. Each skill challenge determines the influence the PC's leadership, tactics, and intangibles has on the rest of the battle as it progresses. With just a little effort I had the system set up for complex post-battle results including control of local territory / resources as well as casualty rates for each side and how long (if at all) either army has to wait before it is again capable of going on the offensive. For instance, one of the mid tier battles had the PC's side lose control of a fortified town despite an excellent encounter combat showing and fairly good skill challenge showing from the PC's, yet their casualty rate results were significantly lower, morale was still high, and their resupply & reinforcement situation was better so in a very short time (and a couple of sessions of the PC's leading infiltration and sabotage efforts and recruiting civilian allies to help undermine the enemy's defenses and intel) the PC's army went back on the attack and decisively routed the now fairly raggedy enemy who in the first battle was clearly the superior force.
We did the business thing 3-4 times over the last 20 years. *Definitely not a thing I'd recommend for every campaign,* and most of them were in Star Wars and not D&D, *and it's better when it's kept simple, like more event-based than actuarial stuff, but it is fun.* Heck, one time, one of my friend who was the De Facto leader of our group created a company and designed a droid for us to use. All within' the normal rules, but the droid ended up a super-efficient healer at a banger of a price (tiny droid with hover movement restricted and quadruped movement restricted jam-packed with medpacks it'd use with a mad bonus and droid medic talents).
The design was so cool and well-thought it went viral. We fought groups of NPCs (soldiers, criminals...) that had one. We had a rival team of players, and THEY got one. And, of course, now every one of my campaigns in that universe that take place after that (and it was in the K.O.T.O.R. era). The droid was dubbed Med-Kito, as it buzzed around but had to stop all locomotion to sting you with a medpack, and the company producing it was dubbed Kito-Corp.
It went on producing more models, specialized in other skills like Mechanical repairs, slicing (SW's word for Hacking)... and even a protocol version... but none of them caught on. And it was never stated publicly, but I lowkey had that company fail due to the expenses and logistics of bringing out those other products that did not appeal to the market. But during any era after the Dark Wars, you can find one of those beloved by their masters and kept in top shape.
Then again... that time it wasn't a reward... but as a reward, rebuilding the Thieve's Guild all the PCs were once part of, as part of their theme and taking control of that city's slum and other underworld was also friggin' awesome.
12:00 "Congratulations, you conquered the monster and saved the land. Your reward is responsibility."
So... just like real life! "Congratulations, you crushed that assignment [at work]. We've promoted you. You now get to do your job *and* manage these 7 people's careers, do weekly 1-on-1s, submit performance reviews, handle timesheets.... What? Oh, no, there's no additional pay. You get the prestige of a better title though!"
@@frederickcoen7862 Ah! I wish! *Congratulations, you crushed that assignment [at work]. Now middle management feel threatened by you and will lowkey make your life hell and plot to put you into a bad light so that they can keep their comfy jobs they don't actually deserve.*
There's a reason the Dilbert comic strip is over 20 y.o. and still kicking.
I find it hilarious how Luke felt about Players managing a business because one of the wackiest campaigns I had was basically that. The players invented a an ale they called Shiver Me Timbers which was laced with a drug called Shiver (pathfinder drug) that made the drink very addicting. Basically kinda how Coca Cola used cocaine at one point. Anyways with this craft they were allowed to build up connections with various taverns as well as a crime syndicate that had a great interest in partnership. They became the hand of the syndicate proving their loyalty while factories were built to mass produce Shiver Me Timbers. One of the players ended up dating the boss's daughter and the campaign literally became business decisions to take out other crime groups as well as expand their reach and grow their empire.
I personally like the idea of making characters into a medieval equivalent of a warrant officer. For those who don't have a military background, (at a very basic level) a warrant officer is someone who is commissioned by virtue of expertise. They typically do not have a command under them, but are extremely well respected; when a warrant officer (especially a CW-5) speaks, even generals shut up and listen. And if a warrant officer is ever laughing and then follows that up with "watch this," be very, very afraid.
What if your players don't want to play military roles?
Pah! CWO5 is a mythical creature!
@@odgreen9113 I saw one once! Nobody knew what he did and nobody was willing to ask the questions to find out.
@@theophrastusbombastus1359
“I _personally like_ …”
@@Jessie_Helms He asked a question regarding what to do if the players don't want that. He didn't demean the OP.
My players after rescuing the Queen of a kingdom, after she was Usurped were made Queens knights. Now they are resposible for keeping a large area of the realm (wilds) protected, ensure the taxes reach the kingdom once a year. I see many adventures springing from this.
So their reward is fetch quests and monster hunts? Things they’d have done anyway for gold/rewards?
@@MJ-jd7rs If put into story form they probably love it!
@@MonkeyJedi99 We have very different experiences playing the game. I've never really cared that much about the 'story', nor have I known anyone that really did.
Earning responsibility as a quest reward would be something 8/10 of my PCs would reject on the spot. "You want to make me part of your Queen's knights? cool, what does that mean? Oh... I have to run errands for you? Huh... you want to give me quests and tasks that I'd have done anyway for rewards, the difference is now I just get a steady paycheck instead of the lump sum like normal? But now I'm tied to your service and can't just go off an do what I want like I used to? Yeah, why the hell would I agree to this again?"
@@MJ-jd7rs Different strokes for different folks, true.
@@MJ-jd7rs Folks tend to congregate in circles with similar-minded folk. My gaming circle includes around a dozen other people (not all at the same table, holy crap that would be insane) and all but one of them is 100% all in for story. One game I have right now goes multiple sessions in a row without combat because the story is the more important bit from there.
That said, yes, the idea of being tied to a location or individual instead of having freedom to roam the world doesn't appeal to many folks.
Actually my players become overly attached to little stuff with meaning that i give them as treasures, a simple hand axe +1 flavored as family heirloom, made of ancient animals bones, that the lumberjack's son gave you after killing the beast that took his father's life, can be carried by a player up to lvl 20 just for the sentimental value that it has
Like Bodger Blodger’s grandfather’s hammer?
@@IvanBarsch YES *sheds a tear*
“This is my grandfather’s hammer, and it’s rightfully mine!”
I was at an Larp event once. It was primarily for elves. I participated with a human character. I felt like an union in a fruit salad. The elves took themselves very seriously. Then the first GM of the event annonced in character that there is a festival ongoing were all dishes are served with bacon. Seriously. All the dishes. Oh you should have seen the faces of all the elves :,D
.. I had my dessert with bacon that nigth ..
Ah fat larp lards scarfing pork. Diabeetus.
ngl I use armies in my games. My setting is a low magic setting where the players are super important because they have access to magic or are skilled enough to be on par with magic users! So combats become the players vs the enemy leaders while the army takes on their army. It’s fun background and adds to flavoring the combat with more than just the immediate chopping of heads and slashing or torsos. I find it fun and exciting :)
One thing that I love about the nights of evening star campaign on RUclips is that the dm made it easy to make players excited about stuff that won’t help them in combat. Sure they didn’t get a magic item, but they got something so much better: a new forge, stone walls for there town, and even an elixir that makes tressym big enough to ride!!! Who needs a +1 plate armor when you can make tressym big?
their
I've done most of these things and the players seem to enjoy them. I have given out real estate, knighthoods, ships, business contracts, information, rare spell components, fast travel (teleportation circle network access), divine boons etc. I have stopped giving out magic items almost all together. if the group gets a magic item it usually has some significance to a story line, otherwise I encourage the group to make their own magic items in their downtime assuming they acquire the proper ingredients. I still give out money though, because I want them to invest it in real estate like building castles, forts, temples, (brothels?), etc.
One of our best treasures was a bearer document granting us ownership of an ancient castle and the surrounding lands.
We traded it for the deed to a closer small peninsula with the agreement that we would restore a lighthouse on the land.
And we still have to figure out how to pay annual taxes on the land...
check out OSR domain play systems.
Boring
@@rbrooks1305 oh, your DM lets you drill holes and mine for precious stones and oil? that sounds cool too.
You’ve honestly made me become a better DM and I rewatch your videos and it seems like I’m always learning something new
I'm experimenting with rewarding my players with objects that are high enough quality to be used in the construction of a magic item. For instance, they recently killed a troll that was using a massive ankheg mandible. They collected it as a trophy but were interested in seeing its value. A local artisan offered each player a small amount of money and a well-made trinket. The trinket could be sold for extra gold or can be used as part of the recipe for a magic item (kind of a call back to masterwork quality items in 3.5). It helps reduce the amount of disposable income at hand (unless they straight up sell it) and gives the player something to work toward. Also slightly reduces the time investment in the magic item creation.
My party was once granted an IOU for “anything within reason” from a Dwarven king and it was one of my favorite rewards I ever received, but we argued so much over what to use it on that I don’t think we ever used it.
Thumbnail: Stop giving out gold and magic items!
Me: I'm actually genuinely peeved by this.
So I think the words you were looking for when talking about titles is "granting a peerage" which in
something like a monarchy means the sovereign recognizes a feat granting a title. Sometimes they're hereditary peerage's which are hereditary titles passed on to your children, or they're non-hereditary (like life peerage's) which do not pass down to your children. Some are peerage that might be passed on to your children but if the family fails to do anything of note or of achievement within a few generations they get stripped of their rank or even of their peerage all together. Also, these are some great ideas! They really help the creative juices flow for rewards
I love this, helps me a lot. I rewarded my players with the "haunted" mansion that they visited on our first session and they loved it. It was their reward for saving a contact and for being the heroes of the region.
Ps. It wasn't haunted, just had a lunatic magician held up there.
I love your reward systems!
Problem is as a DM there is no way I have the time to flesh out the systems which employ those things. I'm 100% in favor of providing players keys to more tools instead of the tools themselves that way they're not juggling 50 magic weapons and instead the ability to orchestrate the resources around them into aiding them in their next quest.
4:30 I remember back in like 7th or 8th grade (late 80s, I'm old), without knowing ANY of the history of D&D, I had this BRILLIANT concept of taking all the playable classes and making so rather than just running one character at a time, you could use PC abilities in actual wargames. Like wizards could dig trenches, druids could animate trees, rogues could make assassination attempts on enemy commanders, etc. It was of course something NO ONE had ever done before right? Right? /facepalm
Thanks for this! My players get pretty salty about me not giving them gold and magic items, since I focus more on story development and quest completion, so this gives me ways to reward them or even additional side quests, that don't involve gold and magic items.
I really enjoy adding to the rumors around the adventuring party/ party members. It can be a boon or a detriment to all the different factions in the world and adds to the moral dilemma that observers brings
I feel like two current dms I play with did a good job of giving out some gold, but more importantly unlocking features as we branch out and expand the town more and explore
Thank you for making these tutorial videos. I've been playing D&D sing the early 2000s, but I've been out of the loop for awhile. It's really nice to use these as refreshers on things to do and things not to do.
"Nobody learns to do something proficiently overnight."
(Rey 'Skywalker' has entered the chat 🤪)
That's kind of par for the course. Luke suddenly became a pro X-wing pilot overnight; surviving long term veteran pilots who flew next to him. All he did in his life as showcased by the movie was whine about moisture farming and get shot by a tennis ball shaped droid, lol.
The sequels by contrast imply that Rey was scavenging and junk diving since she was abandoned as a kid. That at least implies a level of self-sufficiency that Luke never got.
Sequels were hardly perfect, but let's not pretend like Rey was the only one guilty of suddenly becoming something overnight, lol.
"Does only for ten minutes count?" Asks the Knowledge domain Cleric of the Moon Goddess.
Lamest, most boring, pandering character ever, enters the asshole of a movie removing any potential for a properly thought out plot.
@@kylegreene1356 the problem with Rey is that most of her abilities aren't explained and unlike Luke suffers no serious setbacks at all.
Luke lost his foster parents, witnessed his mentor killed sacrificing himself for them, learned the truth about his dad losing a hand in the process.
Had to via comics and books learn to wield the force by himself and only succeeded because his father stepped in to save him.
Rey on the other hand through unbelievably bad writing is both the Emperor's granddaughter but takes the name of legacy hero as her own?!
This is why Disney Star Wars is failing Favreau should have given Rodriguez the same leeway he got with the Mandalorian!
I gave my players an invitation to a dinner with the town mayor as a reward for a competition. It's really just a plot hook to a side quest.
I think part of the trick is that material rewards have a more immediately identifiable value to them, which helps them more feel like a reward in a game. It can be hard to shake off the game element of a system like D&D. Rewards that may not have immediate uses may be a harder sell to the players who may not consider the implications, fear its usefulness may never come up again and therefore not have any usable value (like membership in a local organization that circumstances keep them from actually returning to), or just personally fear that they'll never cash in on the perks because by the time an opportunity arises they'll have forgotten they have them because they've gone 10-20 sessions without it ever being mentioned because it wasn't pertinent to the actions of the adventure they were on. They make perfect sense in terms of narrative and RP, being long-term benefits to the players, new avenues of solutions to problems that can't be solved by DPS, and open doors for new plot hooks and types of adventures, but if your mindset leans a touch more towards the game side of things with the RP adding flavor, it can be really hard to appreciate the actual value of most non-material rewards, especially if they weren't things the party was already working towards directly. Unlike gold and magic items which are numbers on a sheet to be referenced, a lot of other rewards are things both the player and the DM needs to remember or have taken notes on (and I've been in more than one group where we had to ask each other "does anyone remember X detail" and look around sheepishly because no one took notes and only vaguely remember something important from several sessions prior).
I think you're fighting a losing battle if your answer is for people to play the role playing game without regard to the 'game' aspect.
Everyone enjoys playing their own way, as a Dm is really on you to recognize what player A considers a reward may be very different than what player B considers a reward and reward them appropriately.
Honestly this is something I see a lot in 'professional DMs'. They Dm for so many different people and in different locations that they developed their system and expect all their players to adapt to it. But the reality for the vast majority of us is anything but. Never expect people to enjoy the 'game' the way you do, everyone has their own unique tastes and desires.
In many ways it's a lot like being a supervisor. If you supervise 4 people at work, chances are they all have different wants and drives. you might have 2 that want extra money, 1 that wants extra time off, and 1 that wants recognition for promotion. If you give them all time off for a job well done you've really only 'rewarded' 1. Sure the other 3 may thank you, but that's not what they wanted or what motivates them.
I recently gave a reward to my players as a "favor" from from what amounts to a local thieves' guild. The most interesting part is going to be seeing how and what they use it for.
My last game had my players make an entire national capital, it took 3 years but by the end they had a castle with a courtyard, 3 major forts a township with people lake farmers and smiths, and a network of alliances. The town basically just gave out quests. Local bandits are easy enough to hold off but we can not depend on knights to kill the bandit lord guy. Players... go do that. Also instead of killing the Gnolls they gave them food and made them an entire new race.
Stop giving your players gold and magical items but give them discounts at shops so they can spend that Gold that they didn't receive got it.
Maybe the loot was the friends we made along the way?
You know, because now I get discounts at stores and advantage on Persuasion rolls.
My players loved being made honorary members of the dark lanterns (eberron) and get discounts on potions within Sharn.
Without knowing I was doing a majority of these things, I did a majority of these things in my campaign that just wrapped up. First was they got to live in the town for free while helping protect and rebuild said town. They had access to the council whenever they wanted. Each player owned their own business, and got underlings to work for them while they were out adventuring. Transportation was readily available at a moments notice. Large debts were forgiven after saving the town for the final time. Deeds to property were given. And the piece de resistance was there is a week long yearly celebration held in their honor, and named after them.
Thanks for your frequent uploads! I really enjoy them :)
Thank you for the advice this is something I have been struggling as a DM personally.
Excellent thoughts - just bought the lair magazine #17. I will 100% use this in my game :)
It is rare to find such good advice. I'm sold on becoming a patron.
Fantastic recommendations, thank you!!
Thanks this came just in time I am working on an Adventure for 2 of my best friends this will help make it a lot more interesting then just gold for rewards
Just fyi…as a DM…you normally just do these because the players deserve them. If you want to buy his lists, go for it. Didn’t know this was a sales pitch!
These are all great ideas! Thank you!
You definitely make some of the best D&D videos I’ve seen.
Great stuff Luke. Thanks for sharing!
Super helpful! Implementing a lot of these ASAP.
One time a party of players got the idea of doing a salvage run on a battlefield they came upon. They were level 3-4 and pretty broke.
Funny thing, one of them said " seriously? about a hundred dead troops?" and in stereo they cheered "salvage!".
I did not see that coming.
I tried some of these ideas and they worked very well. Thanks for the tips!
I've come to realize business and land management in a DnD game is very much a matter of taste...and one I have long since acquired. Had a pretty fun campaign of a dwarf merchant family that ran a prosperous business and had all kinds of hijinks come through the door. It's lower-stakes than a lot of DnD games, but for my group? It was just what we wanted to relax with.
Reputation is key in a campaign.
Love the timestamps, thank you
As Pathfinder player (dnd 3.5 if you want) hearing that gold and magical items are boring is strange. I mean how it can be. Magical items is the most awesome think, and getting it feels like you getting lvl up. How they can break game? And gold. You can do literally everything what you want.
Thanks! Good tips here 😁👍
I decided to put a business in for the characters, realized halfway through I was doing my version of acquisitions Incorporated. Started a smith business for them, the adventures were going on networking mission, where they slay dragons and gain access to new materials. I will see how this will go.
I made gold more uncommon. Odds are underlyings and most enemies will not have gold. Players will find copper and silver much more. I made there be a need to spend money as well.
But the rewards in this video are definitely a must to add in any campaign.
I also run a system where what characters are wearing, the quality and cleanliness of equipment etc effects how you are perceived and possibly treated by NPCs. For instance you arrive into town your clothes visibly distressed and seemingly have the occasional blood stain, you also smell pretty bad. When attempting to get a room at the inn you are told that unfortunately there are no available rooms (there are) and are offered the stables in place.
Short version:
1-12 Renown
13. 1st level of Waterdeep Dragon Heist
14. Optional reward in Ghost of Saltmarsh
15-16 More renown
But in seriousness, while I honestly believe all of these are good, I recommend considering what kind of players you have. There were games where I rewarded the players with all sort of intangible stuff, like recognition and renown-like perks, and while sometimes it worked really well, other times the players were visibly disappointed.
Conversely, I ran more than 1 Waterdeep Dragon Heist and seen it few time in others games, where the players were seriously ready to give up on the main plot of the game in order just to manage the Tavern they got.
Overall, I feel you just need to get a feel on your players and maybe instead of anything like +1 weapons or broken stuff, I recommend you look up common items that allow some creativity.
You’re right, I’m seeing dnd in a whole new light.
From now on, my players will only receive participation medals and I.O.U cards for their efforts
Wtf lol engagement troll
these are great Luke. In many ways these ideas give a reason to give gold. Gotta have gold to pay the staff. Gotta have gold to pay the wages of that merchant ship. thanks Luke.
Old habits die hard. I'm a grognard from the 80s. In BECMI and 1e(and 2e) loot was a major part of XP for players. I admit I'm a little free with loot. I've never allowed it to get to Monty Haul proportions, but my players know I'm somewhat free with loot. I've always followed the philosophy "The good DM can giveth, but he can also taketh away!" PC's have found that money gets used up quickly(especially at higher levels)for training, retainers, and other expenses and items can get broken, stolen, or used up. I do like using alternative treasures like artwork, jewelry, antiques, and other non monetary items. I enjoy watching the PCs try to figure out how to get those items out of a dungeon more or less intact. Then its an adventure in itself for the PCs to get an appraisal and to find a buyer for said treasures. I've even had PCs take a liking to one or two of the items and actually buy them from the rest of the party so they could display it in their home/stronghold.
My main contention with the system is it forgets a lot of spell casters need gold to buy materials, or copy spells. Or let's not forget all those freebies your just throwing around can mostly be bought by gold, then there is living costs and so many roleplay stuff. And yes you should be able to use your military whether that's for errands, and or for taking out other armies and or dungeon mooks you can just have the party focus on the heavy hitters, hero units or act as force multipliers. Heck pathfinder has good systems baked in already for army combat.
I spontaneously came up w in game idea of a Christmas like event…players went out and bought each other gifts in our decent sized city. One guy made gifts for others (I got a spoon that I used for all kinds of things). It really was an amazing experience for our group that had been together for about 6 months and the GM kicked back and let it happen. We had a party, with a glorious feast and passed out our gifts. Few years later another group did the same thing…going secret Santa angle so one gift responsibility. Great way to watch players come up with new items/rewards.
Amazing video - people need to see this! Giving out a wide variety of different rewards adds a lot of fun and believability. Honestly - what is more likely in real life? A) You help out a friend or a relative with packing and moving, and they give you 200 dollars and some 9mm ammo. B) You help them out, they give you some food, beer, and a favor ("I owe you one!")
I just purchased Lair Mag 17. Looking forward to the whole issue, especially the rewards portion.
Heh, "guard rank"... My drow wild mage is an Investigator in the Waterdeep City Watch - Civilar rank - and can *technically* order a lot of the regular watch around. There's no way in the Nine Hells he can order any guards with him to, say, travel to Chult to help repel a Thayvian invasion fleet, but he can easily order the nearest groups of watchmen to evacuate the nearby market square because some magical mayhem is about to be attempted inflicted on the city...
So yeah, office hath its privileges, but only up to a point.
cake, bacon does not make cake better!
I love books.
My girlfriend's Druid is more of a gish than an explorer, so I allowed her to find a book titled "Dungeons & Dragons: An Adventurer's Guide to the Wilderness" that gives the reader proficiency/expertise in Survival and Nature. You must spend a total of one month (30 short rests, limit 1/day) studying the book to gain this benefit.
You can do this for certain skills, languages, tools, etc. It's an easy way to allow low-level characters to spice up their skill set without gaining major benefits during combat.
I just implemented a custom fief system I made into my new group. At 6th level I gave one of my players Lordship over a destroyed Fort. Not only will this be a good gold dump, it also opens the way to get help rebuilding or expanding it as quest rewards. On top of that, they got a cleric of Bahamian as a follower who has the knowledge to craft magic items for them. (In my setting the players have to actually get materials for their magic items and craft them or have them crafted, which adds extra rewards as an option for quests.)
This video influenced me right at the right time :)
I did something like that but you put the whole thing out there...I will use this..I do see some useful stuff I can use from your video
It's clear this is for 5e.
In older versions Gold is XP AND becoming a Baron is one of the Class Features of a Fighter.
DM: you can't use people to fight for you.
PLAYER: Ok.
Player: proceeds to set up peasant Canon.
Canon, as in "in game history"?
or Cannon, as in "Boom! Yeeeeaaaughhh!!!"?
this is really brilliant. Rewards as a way to build a living world and to expand roleplay possibilities. Maybe my favorite video from this channel
I'm definitely using these in my next game!
The opening argument is that monsters having a horde of gold for the players to find is boring. While there is an air of truth to that, player characters have to pay for food and lodging in towns, they need to upkeep and/or buy new equipment, leveling up requires training time and gold cost, and learning new spells requires a gold cost.
Players will always be slave to the grind when it comes to acquiring funds. Now, you wanna make that even harder. This has been my MIKEtalk, because my name isn't TED. Shank you.
But the point isn't to stop giving them gold but to also give them boons when the time is right. If you save the family of the innkeeper, they can let you stay for free. If you save the archpriest's nephew, maybe they'll cast a high level spell for free. Why would you want 500GP if the local church monopolizes the diamonds for Revivify or something?
Let alone half of the stuff listed is the things you do with your gold It's like people dont' realize that building your own fortress is A and option and B expensive as all hell.
Our party is currently hunting a dragon that does not, to our knowledge, have a hoard.
We are hunting it to save farmers' lives, because that's where our food comes from.
And the parts of the dragon (scales, teeth, claws, blood, etc.) ARE going to be our treasure, which we will have to PAY to have made into items like armor, potions, weapons, and other things.
And because of encounters we have already been through on the way to that dragon, we are looking at buying four horses that were loaned to us but are now dead.
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This is going to be an expensive victory if/when we win.
@@MonkeyJedi99 This is a case where public recognition should probably happen. While it wouldn't help the financial burden, becoming folk heroes where the farmers around are like "Those are the guys who killed the dragon that ate our sheep, our cows and our kids." makes a lot of sense and can alleviate some of the trouble (and bring quite some joy).
@@willmena96 - The concept wasn't completely lost on me. I am old enough to actually remember a time in history when a person could travel and be a hired hand for little more than room and board. The Bill Bixby version of the Incredible Hulk was a wonder example of that. I am gonna hope that the person whom you saved was also related to the town jeweler, so you can procure some pearls for Identify!?!
You are so baconally helpful!
Thanks for the tips
I remember how our fighter was once adopted into noble Barefoot family. If only his name wasnt something like "Harlotchaser"... Every npc was like
-iv heard he is this Barefoot Harlotchaser
Should note that giving money is still a thing that needs to happen, I'm in a group that hasn't given a single coin of gold as loot/reward. And I just feel like a beggar.
As a Wizard main, there's nothing I hate more than a DM that's stingy with the gold drops. I don't get access to my full spell list like other casters, so it becomes crucial at higher levels to be able to buy and transcribe spells in addition to any magic items I may want. If I know its going to be a low gold or item campaign, I'd rather bring a druid, since they get full spell list access and aren't especially gear dependent.
Thank you very much!
My Shadowrun players did a series of runs with zero monetary reward whatsoever. They basically hired themselves out pro bono to a gangland strip club owner in return for a controlling stake in the club. they're in the process of turning it into their home base and a new runner bar in its own right.
🤔🤔🤔 I'll work some things in soon Luke. Thanks for the video
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
Great video tbh! ty!!
Great suggestions....veteran DMs should consider these ideas.
You just effectively described OSR domain play.
Every point is handled admirably in many OSR systems.
When hirelings go on adventures, the player only gets a fraction of the loot.
But the player is managing a dozen or more functioning characters.
Introduce yer 5e viewers to domain play.
It solves all the problems with 5e high level play.
thanks for the video
1. Make sure your players would actually want this stuff. I know at least 5 people who would roll their eyes at the thought of their PC getting a medal. And there's truly nothing worse than a disappointing reward.
2. Make sure there's some actual tangible benefit to the reward. "Oh yeah, I have a castle that I have to dump money into for upkeep that we immediately left to go to the other side of the world following the quest chain and haven't been to in 45 sessions... great. Thanks DM... love that."
In short, other than boons/blessings and trainings for languages/skills/feats, all of these have the exact same issue as gold. Without something to obtain with it that your players actually want it has no value and is not a motivating factor. You are, quite literally, simply putting an extra step between the player's feat (defeating the dragon) and the reward (9/10 a magical item to help kill things better).
My rogue is accumulating wealth to rebuild a lighthouse on a peninsula he secured the deed for.
Once the lighthouse is rebuilt (the country's condition for me getting the land), he will 'hire' 3-5 faming families onto the land to pay taxes so that my character does not have to pay the taxes himself.
Makes me wonder why it is all problem needs fixing.
D&D crunch loops go: explore, kill, loot, level, repeat (or some equivalent quest line of seek, handle, profit, grow, repeat). Everything else is fluff and it's okay for players and characters to want it.
The game isn't only the loop and the loop is a fundamental part of the game, I sometimes ask myself what people should expect or if they should play something else
@@hugofontes5708 The loop doesn't need fixing.
Kill sht to gain resources so you can kill sht better.
That is the fundamental game loop of DND.
A character that sleeps outside in the woods and a character that sleeps in a king's bed both have the same benefit: a long rest. There's no tangible reward for the nicer night's sleep. You can RP as much as you want about how "comfortable" your character wants their life, but it's all just narrative flavor.
An adventurer is a highly skilled/trained/chosen by destiny mortal with powers/abilities/training far in excess of what the average person could ever hope to get that goes out and risks their lives for coin and power. Their primary, number one, focus will and should always be to gain/purchase items and equipment that helps keep them alive.
To me the issues come from either:
Magical item dumps during a quest. Your players should never find an armful of magical items at once (unless it's like a dragon's horde or something). Having a single magical item at the end of the quest chain is perfectly acceptable. OR even something along the lines of, "Adventurers, please rescue my daughter. If you can bring her back alive I'll give you this (+1) longbow that's been in my family for generations." Now the quest reward is known before the adventure even begins.
Allowing every single item to be purchased with gold. You've given your players 25,000 gp in the dragon's horde and tell them they can buy anything they can afford, OF COURSE 4 of them are going to purchase cloaks of displacement. DMs do your homework, they're magical stores not magical warehouses. Look through and figure out what items YOU want available for purchases and at what quantity. I also highly suggest you follow guides such as the "sane magical item prices."
Failure to understand/follow the adventuring day. What's that, your BBEG is 4 CR higher than the party and yet they curb stomped him into the ground? And he was the only thing they faced that day? Du'h. DND is a RESOURCE MANAGEMENT GAME. 6-8 encounters over a single day, not 1-2. It is not designed or balanced for the party to face a single powerful monster, ESPECIALLY not at high levels. If your party can dump all their resources into a single fight they're going to own it and punch well above their weight class.
Honestly, I blame module design and milestone leveling for these issues. The most popular way of playing is modules, and the 'easiest' design of a module is milestone leveling (saves money). But in designing them that way, they've all but ignored the adventuring day and they 100% did not design the encounters correctly. They're designed for the story, the story is the focus over anything else. Hence why players can gain a level for doing something as stupid as breaking a mirror.
But therein lies the issue, since the modules are designed for the story, they're in no way 'balanced' for the players. They're not designed to test the PCs over the course of an adventuring day, they're not designed to drain your player's resources, and they're NOT designed to actually challenge the players in life-death fights. They're there for the story.
@@MJ-jd7rs all you said rings true, and I know about it, my question is all about why people keep trying to fix it instead of embracing the loop or trying other games. D&D surely can have narrative and stuff but right now the game engine only cares about numbers
@@hugofontes5708 Partly due to the success of shows like critical role. It made it popular and brought in a ton of people who want the game played 'that way'. But 'that way' is designed to tell a story, to tell "how do the heroes win?" But that's not the fundamental question of an adventuring group, it's not "How do the heroes win?" it's "Do the heroes win?"
In addition "that way" puts combat as the lowest of the three pillars of DnD. It HEAVILY EMPHASIZES the social tier, the 'talky-talky' bits over all others. There are people who would literally rage quit at even the thought of 6-8 encounters between every long rest. "Combat is boring, why are we doing so many fights?!?"
So DMs are trying to adapt, to squeeze 6-8 encounters into 1-2 encounters under the illusion that "If I make them more challenging it's the same thing."
It's like cooking a turkey, 400 degrees for 8 hours. Changing it to 800 degrees for 4 hours is not the same thing. The game isn't balanced for things like that. It's not designed for things like that, and it breaks when you try.
People play dnd because it's the most popular system, but they want to change it to be something it's not because they don't enjoy the 'dungeon crawl' nature of the game. And then, of course, they inevitably cry when things aren't balanced or it's too hard or too easy.
Stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
If you want a challenging adventure and the system to work as designed, then you have to treat is as a resource management game with multiple encounters spread out across a single day. If you want to adjust it to be something 'more fun' than accept that it's either going to be too hard or too easy REGARDLESS how many magical items you gave out.
I'm watching this as a now first-time DM and I'm trying to avoid giving out more magic items to my players like candy on Halloween 😂
Hopefully I can remember these for use later! Thank you.
The concept alone of saying that you had to puke into a Luke because you drank too much is probably overlooked.
Party, on 12% health, still cursed, poisoned, and exhausted from the fight, bleeding out on the Commander's freshly-washed carpets after having just finally killed the lich that threatened the fort: "We have slain the creature and brought you its heart to prove it. And one of its eyeballs, for some reason - no, wait, the sorceress wants that for alchemy. Well you have its heart, anyway. Gruthek died during the encounter, but Cel'ayra managed to revive him. Now, about our reward, and maybe a 500g replacement diamond for our near-death revivification, and also rooms and baths..."
Commander: "Yes! :) Here - your reward is this! Medals to wear to showcase your devotion to our kingdom! :) If you show this to our blacksmith, he might offer you 100g off your next +1 magic weapon purchase!"
Party: "... Medals."
Commander: "Yes! They are very shiny. :) And free stay in our soldiering barracks for the night! And now all the peasants will know to ask for you to handle their missing persons cases! They'll probably pay you many silvers!!! :) Heroes!!!!"
This is a great idea... if you want the party to decide to kill the people who hired them and raid their coffers for a reward that is actually appropriate.
To be clear, I am a fan of nonconventional rewards, but most of this list would just piss off most PCs I've encountered, let alone their players. If you're doing stuff like this to completely avoid handing out magic items and/or coin, you're going to have some very annoyed players yelling at you that your boss encounters are too hard because they aren't outfitted with magic items, potions, spell scrolls, armor, weapons, etc that most adventurers would have when facing off against that CR/class of monster. Especially if you don't give people magic weapons. Your melee combatants are going to be SO frustrated when they start fighting creatures resistant to nonmagical damage, and when your casters can't afford critical spellcasting components, especially ones used up by the spell's cast.
As usual, it comes down to knowing your players and their characters.
Some things that might work are things like training, titles/deeds that come with actual rewards instead of just responsibility and gold sinks (keeps are very expensive to maintain but can offer safe places to rest, train, research, set up arcane workshops/alchemy labs/etc, store important NPCs they want to keep safe, etc). Training things that a PC might otherwise never have access to could be great, especially if you offer nonconventional things that make the PCs more capable or powerful. Not just new weapon profs, languages, feats, etc, but perhaps things like a non-level-dip-required ability that touches on another class ability (maybe a fighter wants to train with a master rogue to pick up a sneak attack dice for a tiny bit of extra damage without going rogue dip, or your level 19 wizard who has been devout to a deity all their life and since level 0 would like a limited-use or restricted Divine Intervention, whatever).
Some other ideas could be Opportunities that aren't strictly responsibilities or aren't quests. Deeds to mines to rake in some smaller-sum but continual revenue. Investment opportunities in their favorite merchants to ensure their shops are always well-stocked with potions and spell scrolls and magic components, especially with items that are higher in rarity and cost that the merchant might not otherwise be able to purchase, potentially held onto just for the party to potentially buy - or perhaps to even expand their shops into franchises in the major cities the PCs frequent. Political influence can be great, but your PCs need to want to have a game with politics in it to really benefit from such a boon.
Language crystal: an ornately faceted and carved gemstone about the size of an egg. An adventurer may hold it to their head, relax their thoughts for a minute, and learn the language encoded within. Roll a d6. The adventurer dies horribly on a roll of 1 or 2, their head burning from the inside out. Language crystals are good for a single use only, after which they become discolored and brittle.
If a player has ridiculously low health compared to everyone else, to the point where its a detriment, I sneak in a fun and flavorful way to give out a ring of health.
Also can give out weapons with specific traits, like acid damage before they face a fire elemental etc.
My 2 'current' D&D (Pathfinder 1e) games BOTH started with the party HAVING and running a business. One was them being a circus, that facilitated travel and put them in positions to help locals for money and influence. They somehow stubbled into a Demi-Plane and have several magic 'debt collectors' and 'hitmen' tracking them down back on the material plane. They also have an 'evil' circus competition that's spreading rumours about them .. normal D&D stuff. :)
The other, was one the characters owning a small bakery/coffeehouse in a 'bad' part of town and they spent the first few levels just cleaning up the area, and starting merchant guilds themselves ... the Bakery building being part of an immortal maiden/mother/crone deity spanning centuries and being connected to the entire timeline, was just something that happened ... wasn't planned ... long story. :)
what level did the circus start at?
At lvl 1, it would be fun to have the player characters recruited, rescued, or kidnapped by the circus.
Great patron / travelling home base. but they shouldn't own or run the circus until mid-game play.
@@vincejester7558 I started them at level 3, 6 characters, and with a magic tent. Story was that the circus was in a ship wreck, and only a few survived, including the Ringmasters apprentice. So he tried to keep the circus, the only life he knew going, but now fearful of boats he had to find a new land town circuit to perform in, collected the other characters in the first year from various hamlets and cities as performers. BUT ... their new circuit was STOLEN by a higher level Circus troop (Evil of course), and the campaign started with them dejectedly heading literally into NEW territory and unknown cities and towns to try to gain wealth and more performers. They have 5 NPCs in the circus, 2 carts w/oxen, and an awakened foul mouthed (probably a sorcerer) parrot. So it's a REAL small circus still.
Seems to be working so far. :)
@@Pipedog42
Sounds like a great set up.
Y'know, it would be a GREAT cover for a heist...
In our Pathfinder campaign, were became lords and given some untamed jungle land in the middle of an island! My character has been spending some of his money buying a secret silent partnership in inns on the different islands, as a source of income and as a bolthole!
I need gold to, train, buy armor, weapons and potions. I need, advance my training and bribe the npc's. I have had DM's that refuse to give much gold. I find that like working all day at a job and not getting paid for a hard days work. Its great if you want to embellish the storyline with trinkets as long as it doesn't stop me from getting the gold. For instance, instead of donating on patron I will give you the virtual bronze cross of freedom, while its a prestigious metal that is rare and special I am sure you would rather have had some nice hard cash.
“Nobody learn how to do something over night” elves: once again we are better then anyone else
+5 Plot Armor in 5e is the most legendary magic item.
Getting people who help you in combat could be a nice reward, when done right.
You could use some people as a distraction. Or you could fill a hole in your party, if there's no tank or healer. Especially in really small groups this is a valid addition to the game.
Some awesome stuff
Bacon makes the world better, agreed. (Take *that*, you Algorithm!)
But also - Thanks for these ideas, Luke. I've had many of these ideas already, but it's always useful to have them all together and noted as their own topic, instead of "oh yeah, I used that idea once... awhile ago... I think..." Recently in my campaign, for example, the party slew a "mutant wolf" for a little *peaceful* goblin village they came across in the wilderness. In exchange they received a couple potions and some herbal remedies; more importantly, they received a safe place to hole up for awhile to recover from lingering damage and exhaustion from past battles *and* two characters were able to gain some specialized training in support of their new level-up powers: one PC multiclassing into druid got training from the village shaman, while the other got a chance to learn some rituals for his new warlock Book of Ancient Secrets invocation before the NPC hobgoblin wizard departed (his Story arc was complete). "#6 - Training", check!
EDIT: I should have given kudos to *my* DM, too. In his campaign, after LMoP, we did a favor "up north" for the Lords' Alliance. Instead of getting "paid", we were made the Lords of Phandelver. We were already rebuilding the manor and investing in the businesses (and the mine!)... now we were also responsible for its safety, and that of the surrounding lands. But it also accomplished one my my character's Goals (become a noble, at any cost!). [In fact, my character also accomplished another "goal", ending up marrying one of the locals, and Retired at level 9 to run the town and provide support - Sending and Teleport - for the party while managing the lands.]
I found this video helpful. Also my groups characters favorite snack is, pocket bacon. Yes. It's just bacon stuffed in your pocket. Pocket bacon.
i like giving out ancient currency that is no longer legal tender but seen as collector's items like Confederacy Money, the players then have to find a place to sell them. Also one time i ran a modified version of Against te Cult of the Reptile God, after defeating the BBEG the town rewarded the players with an old temple in town that they could use as a home base and were named "Protectors of the town" and as they leveled up and gained fame more people moved to the town to work for the players. they had a Blacksmith, Alchemist, Cook, Guards, Tailor, Servants, ect. the town also grew from a small village of a few hundred to a town of a couple thousand due the amount of money the players flooded into the economy