I'm totally with Shane on "responsive" apps. Most of the apps I build are based on the user experience the clients define. I carefully choose the controls and layouts that provide that experience. Trying to make that flex and work in a different format is going to compromise the experience.
Also.. responsivness: containers fail to load for me when editing, they display controls edit brackets way off the actual control sometimes, some features dont work in them :/ i always end up using just the whatever container for the dropshadow feature 😅
Hi Shane and Matthew, I have problems with uploading data. How can I avoid or make sure all data are submitted to Sharepoint when I use the Patch function? Example: I have 100 records, but when just 50 records upload, the connection on the user's mobile is broken, and now my data is inconsistent. :( Please give me some advice. Thanks so much.
I appreciate your comments about Dataverse but it's frustrating because the cost for this "premium" connector is just too high to make it a realistic option for most end user areas.
You talk about file storage and you say that Blob storage is your preference. Do you consider dataverse file type as blob storage, or is that a separate storage medium in your mind?
I don't like storing files in Dataverse. They are too hard to get them in and out. Azure Blob is my favorite if premium. SharePoint if free. Random note - Under the hood when you store a file in DV they offload it to Azure Blob. You can't see it there but it is there.
Love these guys! Learned most of my trade from them (and Reza). I always make a desktop and mobile app. So easy to change a few things and replicate. Keep it up both guys. Thanks so much for your contributions.
+ Containers + Slowly moving all of my groups over to containers - in retrospect would have used them instead of groups! +Copilot and ChatGPT+ Forbidden from using these by IT because they say the company information goes to the cloud outside of company control which may expose proprietary information - is this really a concern or are they being overly cautious?
Even if we didn't get a custom theme builder, at least being able to change the defaults for fonts would be nice. And the ability to upload additional fonts. The option to change other defaults would be cool too like always turning off Focused Borders! I kinda hate those. Great content from both of you!
Yes, changing the font manually over and over again is a horror. I use variables like Set(varMainFont, "Futura") and write it in every font-"field". Pain. Real need: Themes and REAL multilanguage settings. And something like „Call Notification Success“ (or similar, with conditions and language). - And no "experimental" (PDF) for years ;)
Hey! Have you ever tried template that was build for building apps? There you can define any colors you like onstart property and that's it. Haven't developed an app on this template yet, but seems quite useful stuff
Very useful, thx to Both of You. I didn't get the Teams part though. The THING with Teams is that this is where I get at least some Dataverse functionality included with a M365 subscription. I've found it tough to get my boss to spend thousands of $ a year extra for a 50+ person team. But then I have those security issues with SP, i.e. I need to give edit access to everyone in order to be able to use it with Power apps. Do you maybe have a better idea for safely storing and using e.g. contracts and cross-reference them with invoices other than Power apps for Teams (w/o additional licence)? Everything else is premium... 😞
I talk a lot about locking down things in this 3 part series where I made a banking app. ruclips.net/video/vkGzU2f0CWU/видео.html BUT if D4T is working for you and you are happy then don't change because of us. Nothing wrong with using it if your needs are being met. 🙂
Hi Shane and Matt! Thank you!! I use Sharepoint exclusively as a datasource, as I am not sure where to begin with all of the default tables in Dataverse. Do you commonly use the default tables or do you start from scratch (custom tables) in Dataverse when creating an app? In one sense, it might be less intimidating for there to be no tables, and create from sctach, instead of trying to understand how the tables are to be applied. Alot of them seem logical to a point, but not exactly sure.
Great work Shane and Matthew, some really great insights on some key topics from two of the greats. Hope you guys get together for some more collaborations.
I go on holiday for a week and come back to find my two favourite Power Apps People have teamed up....Its like Spiderman joining the Fantastic Four when I was a kid...wait that didn't work out...Its like all my birthdays and Christmases all at once!!! You are both awesome and I could not do what I do without what you already done...Thank You!!
@@ShanesCows : it's just hard to explain doubling of effort to design for responsiveness in power apps as many might think it is very simple and minimum changes it is easy and don't realise it might involve calculation of control's position, height and width as well additional controls like containers..
Regarding dataverse for teams, the product comes from just after the license shitstorm (that put SQL to premium). MS : "OK, you want a free database, here dataverse for teams aka Oakdale...". But in fact it's useless
The security model is very constrained. The apps must be ran from inside of Teams. And overall we just seems to trip over little thins along the way when using it. 😐 I don't have a smoking gun, just a bunch of UGH experiences when trying to use it.
@@DataisKing . I agree. When 100 people use an app, the Premium fee adds up, so it's a great option when the App can run without Premium connectors. But there are a lot of constraints, no doubt.
@@georgeellis5237 I agree. You just have to design your app based on those constraints. I find that Sharepoint Lists have way more constraints, though. Not having a relationship, very limited on delegation, having to share the entire list revealing the structure of the rows for the user(s), etc. TBH, I do not understand Matthew's point (why not then just use the full Dataverse) - kind of neglects the fact that you need a premium license. Obviously if full Dataverse was included in E3/E5, that would be the only thing I'd use. Paying 5 eur/month for a per app plan is way too expensive when the user count goes up. To the point that why would I not use traditional software development means then, with e.g. a PostgreSQL database? The entire appeal of Power Apps for our company is the fact that it is included in our Microsoft licenses. For me, Dataverse/SQL, Dataverse for Teams, Sharepoint. I don't consider Excel as a proper datasource for anything else than one-time imports or as exports, or for some constants required in the app.
haha was almost holding my breath if you all would suggest anything other than what i used to call a lookup table, containing the many to many relationship between tables. I'm old school but some things dont change
SOS ****************** HELP Hey Shane I have a Screen that has a form Control in Tab 1 & An Excel-like grid View in Tab 2. I have two Sharepoint lists - List 1 & List 2, I am saving data to List 1 using form control from Tab 1 And using Collection & then Patching the data to List 2 from Tab 2. I am making the Relation Between these 2 lists using the Master ID., It seems Pretty and working perfectly. Now I am creating an Amend Request, which means creating a New Request from Existing Request. So when the user clicks on the button he can see all the data of the existing ID, & he made some changes & once he finally saves it, it creates a new ID in List so what I did is, I made the column ID as Blank for Form Control, & once the user clicks on Submit form button, Power apps it self save it with a new ID. till here everything works fine, Now Here the Problem Comes : But, when I click on the button to patch the data of the second list it Says Error, -"Network error when using Patch Fnction, Field ID is Required". I have Collection which has Data from List 2, which means it has an ID column also, which Value of Last Saved ID, I tried making the ID column is Blank in Collection & then Patching, so the Power app can generate a new one by itself, but still, it gives error. Please Help.
I'm totally with Shane on "responsive" apps. Most of the apps I build are based on the user experience the clients define. I carefully choose the controls and layouts that provide that experience. Trying to make that flex and work in a different format is going to compromise the experience.
😀
2 of my favorite Power Apps legends! 😁👍👍
Mine too. 🤣
I hope to be on the Power Apps Mount Rushmore with these guys
Also.. responsivness: containers fail to load for me when editing, they display controls edit brackets way off the actual control sometimes, some features dont work in them :/ i always end up using just the whatever container for the dropshadow feature 😅
Totally agree, not entirely easy to work with containers.
Containers have so many challenges.
Custom themes! Absolutely! I spend an inordinate amount of time formatting/styling/branding my Power Apps!
Same!
Hi Shane and Matthew, I have problems with uploading data.
How can I avoid or make sure all data are submitted to Sharepoint when I use the Patch function?
Example: I have 100 records, but when just 50 records upload, the connection on the user's mobile is broken, and now my data is inconsistent. :(
Please give me some advice. Thanks so much.
I appreciate your comments about Dataverse but it's frustrating because the cost for this "premium" connector is just too high to make it a realistic option for most end user areas.
Yeah, I wish I could help on price but I cannot. So I just help on what is possible. Have a great day David 🤩
You talk about file storage and you say that Blob storage is your preference. Do you consider dataverse file type as blob storage, or is that a separate storage medium in your mind?
I don't like storing files in Dataverse. They are too hard to get them in and out. Azure Blob is my favorite if premium. SharePoint if free.
Random note - Under the hood when you store a file in DV they offload it to Azure Blob. You can't see it there but it is there.
Love these guys! Learned most of my trade from them (and Reza). I always make a desktop and mobile app. So easy to change a few things and replicate. Keep it up both guys. Thanks so much for your contributions.
Will do. Thanks for the kind words.
+ Containers +
Slowly moving all of my groups over to containers - in retrospect would have used them instead of groups!
+Copilot and ChatGPT+
Forbidden from using these by IT because they say the company information goes to the cloud outside of company control which may expose proprietary information - is this really a concern or are they being overly cautious?
Even if we didn't get a custom theme builder, at least being able to change the defaults for fonts would be nice. And the ability to upload additional fonts. The option to change other defaults would be cool too like always turning off Focused Borders! I kinda hate those. Great content from both of you!
Thanks Nate. Yeah, your changes would be nice steps forward.
Yes, changing the font manually over and over again is a horror. I use variables like Set(varMainFont, "Futura") and write it in every font-"field". Pain. Real need: Themes and REAL multilanguage settings. And something like „Call Notification Success“ (or similar, with conditions and language). - And no "experimental" (PDF) for years ;)
Hey! Have you ever tried template that was build for building apps? There you can define any colors you like onstart property and that's it. Haven't developed an app on this template yet, but seems quite useful stuff
Very useful, thx to Both of You. I didn't get the Teams part though. The THING with Teams is that this is where I get at least some Dataverse functionality included with a M365 subscription. I've found it tough to get my boss to spend thousands of $ a year extra for a 50+ person team. But then I have those security issues with SP, i.e. I need to give edit access to everyone in order to be able to use it with Power apps. Do you maybe have a better idea for safely storing and using e.g. contracts and cross-reference them with invoices other than Power apps for Teams (w/o additional licence)? Everything else is premium... 😞
I talk a lot about locking down things in this 3 part series where I made a banking app. ruclips.net/video/vkGzU2f0CWU/видео.html
BUT if D4T is working for you and you are happy then don't change because of us. Nothing wrong with using it if your needs are being met. 🙂
@@ShanesCows Thanks! I've missed these somehow. But now!!!
Hi Shane and Matt! Thank you!!
I use Sharepoint exclusively as a datasource, as I am not sure where to begin with all of the default tables in Dataverse.
Do you commonly use the default tables or do you start from scratch (custom tables) in Dataverse when creating an app?
In one sense, it might be less intimidating for there to be no tables, and create from sctach, instead of trying to understand how the tables are to be applied. Alot of them seem logical to a point, but not exactly sure.
another hour of this please
It was a lot of fun. Hopefully we get a chance to do it again. 😎
Great work Shane and Matthew, some really great insights on some key topics from two of the greats. Hope you guys get together for some more collaborations.
I go on holiday for a week and come back to find my two favourite Power Apps People have teamed up....Its like Spiderman joining the Fantastic Four when I was a kid...wait that didn't work out...Its like all my birthdays and Christmases all at once!!! You are both awesome and I could not do what I do without what you already done...Thank You!!
Awe. Thanks. I really appreciate the kind words. Hope your holiday was AWESOME! 😎
Great session--thank you both. 👍
Our pleasure!
Thank you guys, for this great session.
It's always great to have an opportunity to listen to what you have to say about any Power Apps subject.
Our pleasure! Have a great day!
17:50 yes! The default app is ugly. There’s a lot of work to make it look nice so people enjoy using it.
You and Matt are awesome. Thanks for all the videos and docs
Thanks for watching! 🤩
Thanks for the awesome video, I agree it is difficult to design for responsiveness and there are loads of factors to consider.
Glad it was helpful!
@@ShanesCows : it's just hard to explain doubling of effort to design for responsiveness in power apps as many might think it is very simple and minimum changes it is easy and don't realise it might involve calculation of control's position, height and width as well additional controls like containers..
Regarding dataverse for teams, the product comes from just after the license shitstorm (that put SQL to premium). MS : "OK, you want a free database, here dataverse for teams aka Oakdale...". But in fact it's useless
What are the key things that Dataverse for Teams is missing?
The security model is very constrained. The apps must be ran from inside of Teams. And overall we just seems to trip over little thins along the way when using it. 😐 I don't have a smoking gun, just a bunch of UGH experiences when trying to use it.
@@ShanesCows Well Dataverse for Teams is our best option since our company does not want to pay for a license.
@@DataisKing . I agree. When 100 people use an app, the Premium fee adds up, so it's a great option when the App can run without Premium connectors. But there are a lot of constraints, no doubt.
@@georgeellis5237 I agree. You just have to design your app based on those constraints.
I find that Sharepoint Lists have way more constraints, though. Not having a relationship, very limited on delegation, having to share the entire list revealing the structure of the rows for the user(s), etc.
TBH, I do not understand Matthew's point (why not then just use the full Dataverse) - kind of neglects the fact that you need a premium license. Obviously if full Dataverse was included in E3/E5, that would be the only thing I'd use. Paying 5 eur/month for a per app plan is way too expensive when the user count goes up. To the point that why would I not use traditional software development means then, with e.g. a PostgreSQL database? The entire appeal of Power Apps for our company is the fact that it is included in our Microsoft licenses.
For me, Dataverse/SQL, Dataverse for Teams, Sharepoint. I don't consider Excel as a proper datasource for anything else than one-time imports or as exports, or for some constants required in the app.
I just want super simple thing: let me create god damn folders or some other ways to organize flows
Better way to organize content is a great suggestion.
haha was almost holding my breath if you all would suggest anything other than what i used to call a lookup table, containing the many to many relationship between tables. I'm old school but some things dont change
ha - i was horrified how ugly my first app was so i focused a lot on making the 2nd one pretty. ok the data entry forms are still ugly tho
Ugly apps are the best. 😂
I like that you killed the intro-much easier to watch
Thanks Joel. Truth be told I did it for you. 🤩
@@ShanesCows I'm definitely going to take credit for this
SOS ****************** HELP
Hey Shane
I have a Screen that has a form Control in Tab 1 & An Excel-like grid View in Tab 2.
I have two Sharepoint lists - List 1 & List 2, I am saving data to List 1 using form control from Tab 1
And using Collection & then Patching the data to List 2 from Tab 2.
I am making the Relation Between these 2 lists using the Master ID., It seems Pretty and working perfectly.
Now
I am creating an Amend Request, which means creating a New Request from Existing Request.
So when the user clicks on the button he can see all the data of the existing ID, & he made some changes & once he finally saves it, it creates a new ID in List
so what I did is, I made the column ID as Blank for Form Control, & once the user clicks on Submit form button, Power apps it self save it with a new ID.
till here everything works fine,
Now Here the Problem Comes :
But, when I click on the button to patch the data of the second list it Says Error, -"Network error when using Patch Fnction, Field ID is Required".
I have Collection which has Data from List 2, which means it has an ID column also, which Value of Last Saved ID, I tried making the ID column is Blank in Collection & then Patching, so the Power app can generate a new one by itself, but still, it gives error.
Please Help.
Hello
Make sure that all require columns is in your patch
Otherwise make it optional, your patch should work