Damage Mechanics Deus Ex GOTY

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  • Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 143

  • @BaconHer0
    @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +119

    Did you know that on Realistic difficulty, a single bullet from an MJ-12 Commando's machine gun to your head or torso can kill you? One bullet!

    • @boilerhousegarage
      @boilerhousegarage 9 месяцев назад +3

      Yes, that was changed in the GMDX mod (which is pretty much all I play now) as it was argued that a cyborg should be able to take at least one headshot "realistically."

    • @fuzzygenius
      @fuzzygenius 9 месяцев назад +5

      I had about a dozen deaths from commandos one-shotting me in my run last weekend. Damn annoying!

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +7

      @@fuzzygenius Oh yeah, those guys are absolute terrors at close range. I usually run as far away as possible when engaging commandos because they'll switch to rockets which are less damaging

    • @Treblaine
      @Treblaine 9 месяцев назад +20

      That is... Quite realistic.

    • @lovecraftcat
      @lovecraftcat 9 месяцев назад +5

      Not if you have ballistic protection

  • @FlymanMS
    @FlymanMS 9 месяцев назад +114

    AI Dentons are uncomfortably sane in this one. Thanks for amazingly complicated info!

  • @rosodudersd260
    @rosodudersd260 9 месяцев назад +44

    Everything in this video checks out based on my experience with the game's code. I will note one important thing that wasn't covered in the video: integer truncation.
    All pawn health values in Deus Ex are stored as integers (i.e. whole numbers), so damage is registered as an integer as well. However, the various multiplicative bonuses are (usually) performed with floating point calculations (i.e. numbers with decimals). In practice, this means damage bonuses from skills/augs have to overcome integer thresholds to have any effect. For instance, the assault rifle deals 3 damage per hit. At Trained Rifles skill, you have a 1.2x damage bonus, so each shot of the rifle should deal 1.2 x 3 = 3.6 damage. However, when the damage is transmitted to the ScriptedPawn TakeDamage() function, it's truncated to an integer, meaning that you lose everything after the decimal point (damage is NOT rounded up to the nearest integer), and you still only deal 3 damage. In order to get any damage bonuses on the assault rifle, your damage bonuses from skills and augs must together add up to thresholds of 33%, 66%, etc. to see any incremental improvement. For higher damage weapons, the effect of truncation is less important.
    The same principle applies to damage reduction multipliers from ballistic protection, but in this case it works in the player's favor. Say you are playing on Hard difficulty and are hit in the torso or head by a rifle bullet from an enemy. With the 2x modifier from Hard difficulty and 2x head/torso modifier, the damage will be 2 x 2 x 3 = 12. If you have the Ballistic Protection aug active at level 1/2/3/4, you will have a damage multiplier of 0.8/0.65/0.5/0.35x, which will reduce the damage to 9.6/7.8/6.0/4.2 before truncation, which will become 9/7/6/4 after truncation. So you get a lot more bang for your buck when resisting chip damage from rifles and shotguns, which is part of why the game has such an inverse difficulty curve -- on Liberty Island, nearly all the enemies carry pistols which can one-shot you on Realistic, while later in the game enemies generally use rifles and shotguns which deal lower damage per-hit and are more susceptible to integer truncation during damage reduction.
    As an aside, fans of Thief and System Shock 2 may be interested to hear that the Dark Engine handles the issue of integer damages much more elegantly, accounting for all "stim" multipliers as floating point numbers until delivering the integer damage to the recipient, and using RNG to account for the final roundoff error. For example, 3.6 damage would have a 60% chance of becoming 4 damage and a 40% chance of staying at 3 damage, so the expected value for multiple hits would average out to 3.6 exactly.
    I hope you do a video in the future on the assbackwards ballistics calculations in Deus Ex for both hitscan and projectile weapons. The targeting reticle display is a total lie (except for the pistol, where it just so happens to be more or less correct) because of the way the game adds a random offset to the max range vector for hitscan weapons, thus making the sniper rifle pinpoint accurate up close at Untrained Rifles skill due to its long range. Furthermore, when the hitscan bullet finds a target that is beyond the weapon's "accurate range", the bullet hit location will be artificially lowered to account for "gravity", so a headshot from afar can become a toe shot that deals much less damage. However, since this only occurs for hitscan shots that would have hit a target, you can't account for it by aiming above an enemy's head, since then you'll just miss the hitscan target check. As for projectile weapons, gravity only affects them after the "accurate range", so the firing angle for maximum distance isn't actually 45° as with a physically-correct projectile arc, but rather a higher angle so you get the maximum benefit from the straight portion of the projectile's flight.

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +7

      Actually, sniper rifles are pinpoint accurate at untrained up to long range... I think I had a snippet of that in my tier list video
      The long range gravity drop hitscan is interesting. I didn't know this mechanic existed and will look more into it. Normally I attach a laser to my pistol and it becomes pinpoint accurate to max range

    • @rosodudersd260
      @rosodudersd260 9 месяцев назад +14

      @@BaconHer0 Given the same accuracy values, the sniper rifle should have the same random perpendicular offset (in raw distance) from the crosshair at its max range as the pistol has at its max range. That is to say, you could walk farther back from the same wall and have the exact same shot distribution for the sniper rifle as with the pistol if both have the same accuracy stat. This means that in practice, yes, the sniper rifle is much more accurate at most ranges, because the angular difference from parallel is much smaller (since the range vector got longer but the perpendicular offset vector stayed the same). I've modded the game to have a fixed maximum offset (no RNG) to test the targeting reticle scaling and this is what happens.
      The "gravity" drop for hitscan weapons occurs regardless of your accuracy or laser mod, it's applied before processing the hit for damage calculations (but only if a valid target would be hit). From TraceFire() in DeusExWeapon.uc:
      if (dist

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +9

      ​@@rosodudersd260that's excellent info. RUclips auto-filtered your message for some reason (I guess length?). So glad I found it in the held for review page

    • @Treblaine
      @Treblaine Месяц назад

      That is such a kooky way of the Dark Engine to handle decimal to integer conversion.

    • @rosodudersd260
      @rosodudersd260 Месяц назад +1

      @@Treblaine It's a design choice, not a technical one. Obviously the engine has normal truncation to cast floats to ints, but they made an intentional choice with stimulus calculations, which are expected to have decimal multiplication steps from several stim "receptrons" along the way (e.g. multipliers from character skills and damage type resistances). It's really a clever solution to the problem, since it leads to no artificial bias up or down and produces the most variance where it's needed (low damage hits) and a proportionally smaller variance where it's not as needed (high damage hits).

  • @togrulhuseynli7600
    @togrulhuseynli7600 9 месяцев назад +79

    Theory: I think BaconHer0 has dissociative identity disorder and each Denton character represents his personalities fighting over control
    And they will all morph into one conciseness in one body becoming one like in Helios ending
    -
    nice analysis though( blink in the next video if you are being held)

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +16

      The lore deepens! 👀

    • @Mentelgen-1337
      @Mentelgen-1337 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@BaconHer0or it could be a simple parody on how stupid modernity became. But to be Frank having a lore on the get go is really nice.

    • @KnoxCarbon
      @KnoxCarbon Месяц назад

      WE. ARE. ONE.
      WE HAVE GROWN BUT THERE IS STILL MUCH TO BE DONE.
      MANY WHO LIVE IN DARKNESS THAT MUST BE SHOWN THE WAY.
      For it is the dawning of a new day.

  • @Rhacman
    @Rhacman 7 месяцев назад +9

    Nuclear waste barrels are also flammable! Normally these barrels are indestructible to explosive, projectile, or melee damage but if lit on fire will begin burning. Amusingly the moment they begin to burn their radioactivity dissipates. The burnt barrels also lose their physical invulnerability meaning you can shatter them with most attacks. This makes burning nuclear waste a safe and effective disposal method in the world of Deus Ex!

  • @emmarossignol4445
    @emmarossignol4445 9 месяцев назад +28

    Can't wait for an Aug tier list video.

  • @CrashGordon94
    @CrashGordon94 6 месяцев назад +9

    Some interesting info here, delivered in a fairly entertaining way.
    The Jagged Alliance 2 music was unexpected, but somehow kinda fitting.

  • @TurbulentEitri
    @TurbulentEitri 9 месяцев назад +12

    Incredible. That's a lot of stuff I really didn't know at all and certainly explains a few things that had me confused on.

  • @mickjaegar2379
    @mickjaegar2379 9 месяцев назад +7

    3:47 I'll stand by sabot out of a sawed off being an economical answer to spider bots. It doesn't start to get noticeably effective until advanced rifle skill, but spider-bots don't start appearing in a way that isn't easily avoidable until the Wall Cloud anyway.

  • @JC_Denton
    @JC_Denton 9 месяцев назад +9

    Great vid, I can't wait till the followup for Invisible War

  • @jai3476
    @jai3476 9 месяцев назад +8

    Love seeing Lay D Denton!

  • @yourbestbro6979
    @yourbestbro6979 9 месяцев назад +5

    I'm glad youtube recommended me your vids. Entertaining, educational content about the best game ever.

  • @joshklaver47
    @joshklaver47 9 месяцев назад +6

    17:03 *MJ12 trooper gets shot right next to him*
    "...just takes one lucky shot." 😂

  • @DarkSamael55
    @DarkSamael55 9 месяцев назад +4

    Thank you bacon her zero for posting this delicious vid
    Bless your simple AI functions

  • @Andriej69
    @Andriej69 9 месяцев назад +5

    Damn, this would've been useful years ago!
    BTW That Jagged Alliance 2 music fits surprisingly well!

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      Time to reinstall and play again!

    • @Andriej69
      @Andriej69 9 месяцев назад

      @@BaconHer0 Looks like it!

  • @soldierorsomething
    @soldierorsomething 9 месяцев назад +8

    19:26 those were some sick moves!

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +4

      I'm pretty proud of 17:21 myself.

  • @TheSuperColonel
    @TheSuperColonel 9 месяцев назад +1

    Wow, I never would have thought about using firearm backstabs.........
    Basically, tranq Xbow can prevent MIB explosion at the cost of 1 ammo making it much stronger.

  • @Odessa0v0
    @Odessa0v0 9 месяцев назад +3

    The two different kind of explosions are really cool.
    Having a 'gradient' aoe and then just an outright more damage here or there.

  • @HootWireless-lr9gm
    @HootWireless-lr9gm 9 месяцев назад +4

    I feel like all the Dentons would be great math teachers.

  • @MM-op6ti
    @MM-op6ti 9 месяцев назад +3

    You deserve billions of views, possibly trillions

  • @unr34L-
    @unr34L- 9 месяцев назад +23

    Black Denton is a real brotha

  • @SU76M
    @SU76M 9 месяцев назад +6

    12:15
    You could mention that "nano-virus" type of damage is called so because DX developers wanted to make this grenade spreading nano-virus to others. The grenade itself is some kind of container similar to large ambrosia and nano-virus containters.

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +6

      The lore and fluff would make a good video actually...

  • @CrookedSkew
    @CrookedSkew 9 месяцев назад +2

    A fun an innovative way of making a dry subject interesting and entertaining. Thanks : )

  • @userunknown545
    @userunknown545 3 месяца назад +1

    Holy shit! is it Jagged Alliance 2 music? :DDDD dude, u know to make me cry :'D

  • @willagrey
    @willagrey 9 месяцев назад +5

    Thank you mommy Denton! :)

  • @lemelon7424
    @lemelon7424 9 месяцев назад +2

    Amazing work, thank you and keep it up

  • @johhny4775
    @johhny4775 9 месяцев назад +4

    ”Ayy-og”

  • @MrSchnorkel
    @MrSchnorkel 9 месяцев назад +2

    Damn, ranged weapon backstabs are really important to know about! I wonder if they were intended to be in the game or not. Hell, I played through this game a bunch of times and never tried shoving my gun into someone's head, because why would I?

  • @Atilolzz
    @Atilolzz 9 месяцев назад +1

    Awesome video, man!

  • @Gaalnr
    @Gaalnr 9 месяцев назад +4

    I never would have thought that you can do extra damage with tranqs by getting into a backstab position... I wonder if it's an oversight

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +4

      I don't think the devs intended for ranged weapons to be used as backstab weapons because of how crazy powerful the effects are. But because this mechanic exists in game, players can easily beat Deus Ex on Realistic without upgrading skills or using augs

  • @mK_Dx
    @mK_Dx 9 месяцев назад +7

    Digging the jagged alliance 2 soundtrack.

  • @kanrakucheese
    @kanrakucheese 9 месяцев назад +8

    4:43 That’s terror
    Deus Ex is very much from the era where devs did not plan out mechanics and just stopped balancing when they reached a point where some basic things worked (even if the how they worked is a mess). On the background music: Jagged Alliance 2 actually has plenty of less than intuitive mechanics itself, though I have no idea if you're as remotely knowledgeable on that front as with DX.

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад

      Nah I didn't even finish JA2 when I was a kid

  • @danielsurvivor1372
    @danielsurvivor1372 9 месяцев назад +10

    0:39 Tbf, Denton is one of the only characters that wouldn't suffer too much from race swap since technically he's RPG character who can be any colour...
    I'm just worry Deus Ex movie by Hollywood would sanitise story so much and remove all nuance from story, aka what made it special

    • @Mentelgen-1337
      @Mentelgen-1337 9 месяцев назад +2

      I prefer his vision being augmented.

    • @Atrahasis7
      @Atrahasis7 9 месяцев назад +1

      Albino Denton best Denton.

  • @AlamarianJ
    @AlamarianJ 9 месяцев назад +2

    You can’t sneak Jagged Alliance 2 music in a video like this! Now I have to reinstall that bad boy.

  • @harizotoh7
    @harizotoh7 9 месяцев назад +1

    Nice to know there is a community butfix mod. Too many mods change too much to become fanfiction.

  • @gunfiredude5903
    @gunfiredude5903 6 месяцев назад

    love the music from silent storm and jagged alliance 2

  • @deusexpert
    @deusexpert 9 месяцев назад +1

    Very good stuff.

  • @danielsurvivor1372
    @danielsurvivor1372 9 месяцев назад +5

    7:02 Wait you telling me it's not even gonna protect JC from Walter's plasma gun?!?
    Damn
    ... Hope revision buffed emp shield to actually protect you from electricity

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      Yeah, plasma guns do burned damage which is blocked by the energy shield aug.
      Energy shield doesn't protect against EMP though, and EMP shield doesn't protect against burned damage.

    • @danielsurvivor1372
      @danielsurvivor1372 9 месяцев назад +1

      ​​@@BaconHer0 Bro how did devs forgoe to make either of those shields block plasma? Are either of those augs even useful for anything? 😂
      I'm waiting for that aug tier list cuz I feel like I'm gonna need it

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      @@danielsurvivor1372 No, energy shield aug does block plasma because it's burned type damage. But plasma only does like 8 damage per bolt so it's not a big deal

  • @kekula69
    @kekula69 9 месяцев назад +1

    16:25 i read "thugmales" as "thighmales"

  • @ghjenbulay6423
    @ghjenbulay6423 5 месяцев назад

    4:56 That some heavy augmentations

  • @daveprime7278
    @daveprime7278 9 месяцев назад

    damn I skipped the original upload and now it reappears, gotta wootch itt

  • @poiumty
    @poiumty 9 месяцев назад

    underrated channel tbh

  • @thomasquwack9503
    @thomasquwack9503 9 месяцев назад +1

    Not a minute in and a reference to the Malkavian mod (or at least when jolly played it but i thibk its to the mod itself). Well done!

    • @magmad1ver
      @magmad1ver 9 месяцев назад

      cops. that's what the sonofabitch uses in operations against black people...

  • @jcdenton274
    @jcdenton274 23 дня назад

    Deus Ex with Jagged Alliance 2 Ambience

  • @Eyetrauma
    @Eyetrauma 9 месяцев назад

    You're welcome, it was a good read.

  • @TheWoodenshark
    @TheWoodenshark 9 месяцев назад +1

    JA2 music brings back memories...

  • @latviandragon2718
    @latviandragon2718 Месяц назад

    0:36 yo yo yo he said the line

  • @amanofnoreputation2164
    @amanofnoreputation2164 9 месяцев назад +2

    Getting a 200% multiplier for hitting someone in the torso with a baton doesn't sound like it would get you the takedown, but the math isn't, 7*(10 + 2) = 84, but actually 7*10*2 = 140.
    I.E your backstab multiplier is itself multiplied by your bonus for not hitting the target in the head.
    Games don't always work like this. You'll often get multipliers that stack, but which don't impact each other: 7*2 + 7*10 = 7*(10+2) = 84.
    Whereas these partiuclar multipliers also multiply each other: 7*10*2 = 7*20 = 140

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      Yup, Deus Ex is unique in this way. The additive stacks are confined to skill and aug bonuses, and technically resistances. Then that's rounded down and multiplied by the conditional, then multiplied once again by body part bonus. It's crazy

  • @imaginarybaron5864
    @imaginarybaron5864 9 месяцев назад +1

    Drinking game, take a shot for every death scream in this video

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      And once more every time the AI pronounces "aug" wrongly

  • @Panceggs
    @Panceggs 9 месяцев назад +7

    black Denton didnt say the n-word -69420/10 but fr good video

  • @mikhailryzhov9419
    @mikhailryzhov9419 9 месяцев назад +1

    The AI voice is almost perfect. At first I thought that was real human's voice, but the it broke down a bit as well.
    Edit: maybe I just forgot how women sound.

  • @kg4boj
    @kg4boj День назад

    Who noticed the jagged alliance 2 music?

  • @CallOfCutie69
    @CallOfCutie69 9 месяцев назад +1

    6:47
    Icarus can’t pronounce “aug”, but wants to rule the world with me, smh. I wish I could pick becoming Page’s lackey instead of Simons…

  • @red_cosplay
    @red_cosplay 9 месяцев назад

    whoa, JA2 music

  • @Yagorkin
    @Yagorkin 8 месяцев назад

    I recalled the JA2 music.

  • @seriousglitch9111
    @seriousglitch9111 9 месяцев назад

    JC Ride from illuminati grips is cool fr fr

  • @ranfan1820
    @ranfan1820 9 месяцев назад +2

    I'll stay 100% black!

  • @ManthonyHiggs
    @ManthonyHiggs 9 месяцев назад +1

    give it to me straight bros. whats the best hud/menu color

  • @deadspace4755
    @deadspace4755 8 месяцев назад

    Finally, l realized the backstab logic, so you go behind someone and enjoy that 10X damage bonus. So crossbow tranq becomes finally useful.
    Does it work on bosses too? If they lost you and you manage to go behind them? Actually, how much time you need to wait to lose you so you can do backstab damage?

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  8 месяцев назад +1

      It works on bosses but most bosses have super high resistance to poison effect damage
      If you want to KO a boss, I suggest whittling down their health before using tranq darts.
      Anna Navarre is completely immune to stun and poison

    • @deadspace4755
      @deadspace4755 8 месяцев назад +1

      Good thing the game lets you skip bosses and avoid them or take care of them earlier. @@BaconHer0

    • @deadspace4755
      @deadspace4755 8 месяцев назад

      If you manage to stun someone and wait until their stun duration goes out, can you backstab?@@BaconHer0

  • @nablahnjr.6728
    @nablahnjr.6728 9 месяцев назад +1

    so for multiple hit weapons is the backstab bonus applied to the first hit only or all of them
    i'm hoping to master LAW backstabbing

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +1

      Only the first instance of damage is applied to the backstab :D
      EDIT: Actually if the target is still alive after the first instance, it'll keep reapplying backstab damage until you run out of instances or until the target runs out of health

  • @arciks11
    @arciks11 7 месяцев назад +1

    7:10 was that AI holding fire to not hit an ally?

  • @x0men0x
    @x0men0x 9 месяцев назад +2

    awesome subs, any reason to not use the RUclips's CC subs?

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +5

      It's just faster to do it in the video editor since I can sub the audio files directly. In RUclips I'll have to manually match the voices times, and there are like over 100 subtitles to make for this vid alone

  • @leviathan2647
    @leviathan2647 9 месяцев назад +1

    Yooo ja2 ost on background

  • @mihaiburloiu367
    @mihaiburloiu367 9 месяцев назад

    that JA2 music tho

  • @jimbo2revengeance
    @jimbo2revengeance 9 месяцев назад

    What OST did you use this time? Sounds mad familiar.

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      Jagged Alliance 2

  • @Jaquagon
    @Jaquagon 3 месяца назад

    Why does lady Denton sound like Ellen degenerous??😂😂❤️❤️❤️

  • @CallOfCutie69
    @CallOfCutie69 9 месяцев назад +1

    I wish this video had explained why exactly do plasma weapons suck. 😢

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +1

      Oh, I explained it in my tier list video already, that's why I didn't want to repeat it here

    • @CallOfCutie69
      @CallOfCutie69 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@BaconHer0 but what if someone wanted to watch this as an ultimate dx damage guide?

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +2

      @@CallOfCutie69 That's a good point. I cut out a bunch of stuff in this vid to keep it around 20 minutes.
      The gist of it is that in the GOTY version of Deus Ex, plasma bolt damage was reduced to 8, but this change isn't reflected in the weapon stats screen. So, a plasma rifle does 8x3 base damage and not 105
      Also, plasma's burned damage is resisted by more enemy types than normal bullets. This makes plasma weapons very weak

    • @CallOfCutie69
      @CallOfCutie69 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@BaconHer0 I don’t think the cutting was justified. It’s a niche fandom anyway, it’s not like 30 minutes of a 24-year old game mechanics is less accessible than 23. Pinsplash has recently made a 50 minute Gauss gun video, and it’s doing okay.

  • @CallOfCutie69
    @CallOfCutie69 9 месяцев назад

    12:37
    The music that starts here really interferes with listening. Subtitles do not help for some reason. Probably it’s that info you better digest by listening.

  • @Khamoryn
    @Khamoryn 2 месяца назад +1

    And remember: stay black

  • @Belisaur
    @Belisaur 9 месяцев назад +4

    Do JA2 voices. Do it.

  • @BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers
    @BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers 2 месяца назад

    20:10 😂

  • @XHeiko
    @XHeiko 9 месяцев назад +1

    All ways to pronounce "aug" speedrun aug%
    What's a 20 bummy-miner?

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +1

      It's the boomy thingy that comes out of a machine gun

  • @arkgaharandan5881
    @arkgaharandan5881 9 месяцев назад

    hahaahaahhaha that intro

  • @lachlank.8270
    @lachlank.8270 Месяц назад

    UNATCO touched my wee-wee 😎

  • @theking5116
    @theking5116 9 месяцев назад +14

    Nice professional racism

  • @danielsurvivor1372
    @danielsurvivor1372 9 месяцев назад

    8:42 Song name? 😅

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +1

      LOL, it's Avril Lavigne - Complicated

  • @Dennis-ud2nh
    @Dennis-ud2nh 9 месяцев назад +9

    Nice casual racism

    • @BaconHer0
      @BaconHer0  9 месяцев назад +9

      I actually made a Populous 3 video that was 1 million times worse than this and decided not to upload it

    • @DarkSamael55
      @DarkSamael55 9 месяцев назад +5

      @@BaconHer0 Do it

  • @dlowfresh
    @dlowfresh 9 месяцев назад +1

    The Lady D mod is just a waste of time tbh