Dr Phil Maffetone on MAF Training with Low Heart Rate, Low Carb, Intervals, Ketosis, Fasting & more
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Dr. Phil Maffetone has written over 20 books and 200 articles on the topics of endurance training, racing, nutrition, health and fitness. He has made a huge impact on me, my family and my friends.
In today's follow up interview, we dive deep into contradicting views in nutrition, healthy vs unhealthy meats, ketosis, intermittent fasting, experimenting with nutrition during training and how to overcome frustrations with low HR training, best type of interval training and much more.
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I learned a lot during this conversation and hope you will as well.
What is your favorite takeaway from this conversation? Please let me know in the comments.
Show notes
• Improvements after training with a Heart Rate Monitor [3:30]
• More awareness about health, but more unhealthy people than ever, huge disconnect [4:58]
• Why so many people are addicted to sugars without realizing it and what you can do about this [10:45]
• Why weening off Junk Food does not work. [14:12]
• How the 2-week Test can help identify Carbohydrate Intolerance [14:12]
• Dr. Maffetone's thoughts about the strong need for specific nutrients that come from animals [15.55]
• Chicken is the worse meat you can eat but highest selling [18:33]
• Healthy meat vs unhealthy meat [19:25]
• Listening to your body, to how you really feel [22.45]
• Dr. Maffetone's thoughts on ketosis and fasting [24.48]
• Training your fat burning abilities [33.20]
• Importance of experimenting with nutrition during training for race day [34:50]
• Benefits of low heart training [42:20]
• Why many athletes struggle with low heart rate training and what to do about this [46:00]
• The social component of running apps like Strava [48.30]
• How to create your own training schedule with self health management [50:15]
• The type of speedwork and intervals Maffetone likes [54:25]
• Importance of having fun during training and racing [58:10]
• Listening to your body instead of to music [1:00:03]
• Setting aside time to be disconnected and think [1:01:00]
• Becoming aware of different types of stress and ways to lower your stress [1:03:20]
• Dr. Maffetone's books about Training, Racing, Health and Fitness [1:06:40]
• Improvements with MAF and marathon times by Floris [1:11:30]
Full Transcript of the video available at extramilest.com...
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Thank you Floris, my name is Kevin for California. I have been watching most of your interviews on MAF training. I have done 3 marathons in LA, recently getting a PR of 3:56. I will now implement low heart rate training for the next year for my BQ race in LA 2024. Keep you posted! Have a great day 😀
Perfect video. I am not following MAF training, and got known about it just few days ago, but looks like it is my natural training way (regarding fasting, diet and training philosophy). I don't train so scientifically and running more by feel (HR about 145-150 BPM most of the days, and my formula is 180-30).Most important point was, that if You are training differently and You don't have problems making PR's don't stop doing it. I am in endurance sport +5 Years and my recent PR in second marathon is 3:19 form 4:06 couple Years ago. As few other marathoners have been summarizing higher mileage they was training, faster marathons they run (up to a point of course). I think for beginners this is the best training way to run injury free.
Man, you should have Amazon links to the books listed as well...could be a nice commission for you and your work.
Great Interview!
I became fully fat-adapted after 8 months, so I'd say it was too short for you. I'm now 18 months into it, and I've never felt better. I've ran 3 ultras without any food and only water and salt, and my timings have improved by over 3 minutes per mile. My resting heart rate is very low compared to when I was sugar-depended runner. I sleep better, I have been concentration, and even my mood has increased. So for me keto is magic, but real magic; and it will work for most people, but you need patience.
Did you increase your fat consumption ?
Thank you for the interview. I don't run regularly but every year or two do a medium distance event like a 1/2 marathon. I usually use Starting Strength methods for strength training, those methods work very well for strength but part of getting stronger is gaining fat and the endurance / running suffers. I recently started using Maffertone's method for a race I'm training for and the programs work fantastic together. I strength train 2 days per week and do 2 long slow cardio events per week (1 to 1.5 hours mostly running). I use intermittent fasting and always do endurance training fasted. I eat "paleo" oriented with quality fats and lots of protein. I structure my carbs around strength training and after long runs. Carbs are vital for anaerobic strength and help recovery. This method of training / eating allows me to continue to strength train while also building a great endurance base.
Great discussion. I have started to apply this to my training and been promising so far.
Glad you enjoyed the episode David! This can take some time to get used to, but worth it in the long term. Have fun with your training!
Floris Gierman I would like to know his MAF training pace at his age? Mine is around 15-16 minute mile at 120-125 BPM age 57. I feel good at 140 pace and 11 minute miles. Can I train at that heart rate instead?
Agreed with the low heart rate training 100%. No so much with nutrition. Just we need to have a look at the cultures that do endurance training all are carb based like the raramuris. Just to have a look at all the top level athletes they eat carb based. I think that independent of the diet that tipe of low heart training eventually will burn fat as fuel also. It is not the industry most whole foods are carb based nature has not biased anything. Great content my friend
"Why should meat have an ingredient list?" 😄
Kristine Cheyne cuz they need to list all this antibiotics and other goodies 😜
Lovely interview...
im gonna do it. Ive experienced the other way and the pain and burnout from going too hard early! 3 months of easy runs sounds fun!
what a smart men!
awesome.
Sorry I respect Dr. Phill but
High vitamin A foods include sweet potatoes, carrots, winter squashes, dark leafy greens, cantaloupe, lettuce, bell peppers, broccoli, and grapefruit.
Those foods contain Provitamin A. However, according the Healthline.com 45% of people carry a genetic mutation that significantly reduces their ability to convert provitamin A into Vitamin A. Vitamin A is fat soluble and found in meats, liver, cheeses and some fish and eggs.
Run at night. CHECK. I do that almost exclusively. So relaxing. I'm always afraid of what people think looking at me going slow. I speed up to get away from people. Thanks for the humble pie
Excellent Floris and Dr. Maffetone..thank you for your commitment to the sport and providing us with stellar information
Happy to help spread the word Michael, thanks!
I'm 6 month into the modern ketoish low carb high fat life style. It saved me and my wifes lives. I'm glad you guys and others have been preaching/talking about this for years. Please keep these up. Many more still don't understand what it's doing to them. Or how LCHF can help reverse lots of problems. I'm so happy. I have started to run some. But not too much. I hated running before.
Sorry 180 minus age does not account for the bell curve in HRs. My wife's max HR and Hr at 2mmol of lactic acid(aerobic zone) is significantly higher than mine. We are same age. So while 180 minus age is a good generaliztion it is not scientific in the least.
You are barking to a cult unfortunately.
@@aroundandround yup..never seen a group that misinterprets the "science' as bad and ignores the latest trends like 80/20 plans vs their pyramidal. Oh well they are good salesfolk I guess.
I find your content fantastic! I already saw a lot of videos that I found on the internet and I learned a lot form them. I have one question. I run for a few years now. Always within theory ‘no pain no gain’ …and almost killing myself. I got to run 10 km with an average of 5 minutes per km. Gradually my friends gave up but somehow I continued running. I found your videos about two months ago and I tried to run at the heart rate of 180-45 = 135 and I found it , what many others think, that it is too easy. I have difficulties running with the heartbeat less than 140. I am practically walking. I am very motivated and I would like to continue to run and get better. My question is, how many kilometres should I run in this pace, since I was running about 6 to 7 km with the heart beat 180? I would like to thank you in advance for your answer.
Hi David, great our paths crossed. Changing from a high hr training routine with No Pain No Gain, to a low hr training takes time and patience. A lot of athletes experience having to practically walk first. Here is a blog post that might help overcoming some initial struggles with low HR training: extramilest.com/blog/overcoming-frustrations-maf-low-heart-rate-training/
Re - how many km you should run at this pace, all depends on your available time to train, race goals, etc. All up to you, when you increase your aerobic training to more days a week and longer, you typically see faster progress.
You might find the Extramilest Facebook Group helpful, with runners from all around the world training with HR: facebook.com/groups/209003219602686/
Have fun on your runs! Thanks and cheers, Flo
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Where am I going to find time to do a high intensity work out? Ummm generally those runs are a lot shorter in duration than your slow steady pace runs. I don't know, some of this info is good, but some just doesn't make any sense.
Hello, Florian!
First of all... Merry Christmas!
Look, I've just re-watched this video and got a little confused...
Dr. Maffatone mentioned that "the brain likes to rehearse"...but the thing I don't get is the following (and I am pretty close to this moment...):
If I've been training exclusively at my MAF HR target for the last 4 months, how can I know what my pace should be on my 21K Race Day (or, what HR can I stand)?
I've been looking for such a piece of information, but could not find.
Could you help me please?
Thanks
maffetone overgeneralized yoghurt. by yoghurt he meant processed, sugared yoghurts whereas home-made yoghurt is just the opposite and one of the best things to consume ever. (you can add oat and bananas)
I am SUPER interested in exploring this concept of heart rate and integrating this. I've never been able to hit 3:30, but 3:32. Stuck, and the pandemic hasn't helped either. At 58 years old, I'm thinking that it may be unrealistic to still want that 8min/mile pace? Help!
For fasting, check out the work of Sachinanda Panda. Ideal is 12 hours no eating between dinner and breakfast the next day, including tea or coffee. There’s a sweet spot in endurance and lean muscle mass when your eating window is between 8-9 hrs.
Also for fasting, check out Valter Longo. He’s done extensive work with fasting and fasting mimicking. Watch out for too much protein and sugar, both of which trigger aging pathways. His work might also explain why Phil Maffetone did well as a vegetarian for years but now does better eating more protein now. After about age 60, our protein requirements increase.
Appreciate it Jeremy, will dive in. Cheers
I'm only able to watch 20 mins right now. But mind blown at the amount of awesome information. Come for the MAF training stay for the life changing! Subbed. thanks.
Happy to hear that Maxyshadow. There are about 36 more interviews on this channel that you might enjoy. All the best on your running journey!
@@FlorisGierman Thank you. Looking forward to them.
@@Maxyshadow 👍
Hai Floris, would you explore the training for kids, especially for K7-K12?
Thanks
Great interview, I have seen improvements in my running each week since I implemented these practices. The only thing that I disagree with is Dr. Maffetone says runners are getting slower. Well, they may be listening and changing the way they run because Boston Qualifier just dropped the qualifying times by 5min. Nooooo
Nice work on your weekly improvements Kevin! I think Dr. Maffetone is referring to overall finishing times of races becoming slower. Now compared to 5 or 10 years ago, there are a lot more runners of races in any distance. So automatically more faster runners will quality for Boston (one of the faster qualifiers). If you have 1000 people run a qualifying race and 10% qualifies = 100 people within qualifying times. If you have 2000 people run a qualifying race and 10% qualifies = 200 people within qualifying time. If there are only 100 spots, the qualifying time automatically becomes faster with more people starting a race. Hope that clarifies
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Not all refined carbs are just "like sugar" - there's a difference between glucose and fructose. They could be as bad, but they're not the same.
Thank you so much Floris for the important advices you give…you have convinced me to train with the much more enjoyable training method (The MAF)…I need an advice from you regarding the best running watch ti use…I haven’t got any…I think the most important thing to have is the accuracy of the heart rate monitoring…but I would like some king of accuracy for the gps mode too…I think I will get the strap and I don’t wanna go over 300 euros…any raccomandation? Polar…Garmin or something else? I was gonna go for the pacer pro…please help me🤗 Thank you Floris
Thats really interesting what Dr Maffetone said about refined sugar... (we have a diabetic in my family) and cereals and all the food she eats might have to be updated.... or she might have to eat it if she's on a low sugar reading
Type 2 diabetes can be reversed in most cases by a keto/carnivore diet, type 1 can be managed much better and by needing less insulin live longer with less chronic diseases.
While running a race, we still have to run in aerobic zone? Or its ok to run with higher HR in races?
Will be able to train our hear to be in aerobic zone even in race pace?
Look at Tanda race predictor to get an idea of the pace for your race
Yes even long races will use higher HR than MAF, though each person has to experiment with how much they can increase it by 10 or 15 or more etc.
Was wondering if the books are translated to Polish language and available in Poland. I’d love to buy few for my family.
Not sure if they are, maybe check on Google or with the author
Hi Floris, after the race... around off season is it ok to continue running via MAF just to keep consistency?
Our cells need protein, lipid, Glucose and oxygen. There are differences b/w Glucose and Fructose
I take sugarcane juice nearly everyday, the glucose in sugarcane is called Polysaccharide.
The cells do not need glucose which is in fruits, starch, Cab....they are called
Fructose, Lactose, Mantose, Galactose. It is called Monosaccharide.
Glucose, Lipid, protein, oxygen produce three different chemical reactions.
1/ Glucose + Protein = Glycoprotein produce blood
2/ Glucose + Lipid = Glycolipid
Glycolipids are substances that make cell membranes so that cells do not tear.
3/ Protein + Lipid
It is a reserve food to fight the aging of cells.
He’s a little disingenuous when he implies that you have to eat meat to acquire glutamine in the diet. There are lots of vegetarian sources of glutamine.
I found nearly everything he said to be disingenuous... I'm a believer in low heart rate training (not necessarily MAF method), but if this is the guru that people are following then it provides a way to discredit the practice by people with a different viewpoint.
ya maffetone can tell that to scott jurek
Floris, I'm a long time runner, 10+ years. Im 50, I find that it's hard for me to maintain an average 130 bpm on my trail long run. It turns out to be 122 bpm. Any suggestions?
what if just walking (12 min/km) already reach MAF HR ? Continue to walk 6 days a week, an hour for each walk for 6 months ?
The RDI recommended daily intake is based on a standard high carb diet. If you cut carbs then those numbers dont make sense. As well as high vegetable intake can skew what you actually get. Just the concept that the water intake recommendation was based on not much as tim nokes tells. Makes it easy to ignore what most have said in the past. Do what feels good
How important is weight in relation to increasing speed over longer distances. Me currently at 100-102kg , 188cm tall , at 16% BF.. 39yrs of age.
When I was 23-24yrs old playing sports 4 days a week, was roughly 86-88kgs and felt like running was so effortless. Now obviously packed on some size from gym and its become much harder to maintain longer durations at steady state pace.
However, I was 111-112kg 6 Months ago, so its getting better to run longer an faster at track sessions. IDK if this is ideal but I set my goal weight to be 92kg, next 4-5months..
Any tips or suggestions thanks?
I've done 2 days. 48 hours dry fasting, no water. If you know you know. If you don't try you may not know if you can do it. I felt no ill effects or cravings of anything. Very cool. Try it if you can. Do not force it. It was like nothing happened and felt no different than normal days. I tell that to others and they say you cant do that
The additives in the processed food are very bad too. Emulsifiers that open your gut lining for the trans fats or other compounds in general is very inflammatory and nutrient disrupting
Actually Doc, elite times are lower by 5 to 10 secs on average over the last 20 yrs. Non elite are lower but that can be attributed to a lot of things other than diet. It could be thatas simple as there has been an expansion relative in novice entries. It is very hard to connect the dots on diet on this one.
I believe the higher resting heart rate during the keto adaptation phase you experienced has to do with the body retaining less sodium and thus the need to increase salt intake. Lower sodium during keto leads to lower blood volume which the body compensates by increasing the heart rate. Usually when I notice my resting heart rate above my usual levels, I take some salt and lemon water and it pretty much corrects itself back to base levels.
That could indeed be part of it. I also strongly believe Keto works better for some people than for others. There are several studies that discuss this in further detail as well. Glad you found what's working well for you. Thanks!
Floris Gierman I agree one size does not fit all and we should do what feels right for our bodies
Awesome interview.
Life changing concepts.
Thx for sharing.
Great interview! I agree that MAF training is important for developing the slow twitch muscles and building that aerobic base. But the same is important for anaerobic threshold or interval runs for the fast twitch muscles. It’s a balance between the two. I like the 80/20 idea for race training. I completed my first marathon yesterday (Charleston Marathon) with a 4:45 pace group. It was a walk in the park. I’m injury free but a little sore due to not doing any marathon training (signed up the day before). Also I am Keto (two weeks now) and ran fasted other than a cup of coffee with a spoon of butter. However, I did drink the Gatorade for electrolytes at the stations but no gel packs. I think experimenting is key. I have the Myrtle Beach marathon on May 2nd. I will dedicate at least one day a week for speed training and continue with the Keto Diet. My resting heart rate has increased by 10 bpm and I think I will give it a go for a few more weeks before incorporating healthy carbs if needed to drop the heart rate and/or improve speed.
Justin, how many months of base training do you recomend before starting speed training?
I actaully believe buteyko breathing maf and keto, all go hand in hand together!
Fantastic Dr Maffetone and you video thanks Sergio runner veteran in Brasil congrats
Nice discussion, thanks!
I don't know, I am a bit skeptical with regards to low carb diets. But then, I am not a doctor. What makes me think low carb is not bad at all, is the diet that Kenyan runners have which I believe is low fat - high carb, lots of starch, infrequent meat... I think it is not about high vs low carb, but more about junk vs non junk food.
Same here. Ketosis for me is not something marathon runner should aim for...
Kenyan runners live very active lives since a very young age... and well, they run an awful lot obviously. Does their diet work for your typical amateur, office worker runner? I bet the kenyan runners are extremely insulin-sensitive despite their high carb diet. "Normal" people? The CDC estimates 1 of 3 americans is now prediabetic... which is a fancy way of saying they're essentially diabetic.
I remember watching an Ironman back in the day...and the commentator stating Paula Newby Fraser was on a high protein low carb diet.
Question: if every run is essentially a maf test, what’s different about the test format?
"over-fat runner" sounds like a good band-name
Awesome!
The question I'd like answered is ... based on age/sex what actually constitutes a "solid base". I would expect there to be some sort of range. Even if it was a 2-3 min/mile spread. Someone must have complied that data right?!?!? It wasn't in his books either. I ask this as a MAF and 80/20 advocate.
Hi Brian, I'd say this depends on many variables, such as age, MAF starting point, running goals, training volume, etc. Then again, additional layers of complexity such as max heart rate, temperatures, altitude, humidity, elevation etc.
Fantastic. Thanks Floris!
Glad you liked it!
20:00min you could hunt
as a cyclist I used to train low heart rate for years, and could ride moderately fast for short periods, and have ridden across entire continents riding >6 hirs every day for weeks, carrying all my equipemnt come mountain range or river delta, thing is, to ride really competitively fast you have to train fast, there is no getting away from it, the principle of specificity. Now I rarely do long slow rides, unless I'm touring across countries. Enjoyed the talk non the less.
Hi Floris Gierman. Great interview again! Dr. Maffetone is wonderful. Can you help me to understand when you say biofeedback? I'm from Brazil I couldn't find a good translation to this term, and you used it a lot! Thank you.
Hi Ricardo...he is referring to the heart rate monitor. I'm sure it refers to biological feedback....feedback (information) that is happening in your body (bio). When you look down at the Heart Rate monitor you are getting instant biological feedback to how high your Heart Rate is....which will tell you which zone your body is working at - aerobic vs anaerobic (burning fat vs burning sugar). So looking down at the HR monitor as you exercise gives you instant bio feedback. I hope this helps my friend.
What happens if we eat carbs eg honey before MAF training? Do we still burn fat for aerobic fuel? Just not body fat?
Or if we haven't eaten any fat and can't burn bodyfat because of raised insulin are we unable to work aerobically altogether? Or can we burn carbs aerobically?
Sure you can eat some honey before MAF training, just don't overdo it. We all have plenty of stored body fat available that can be used as energy source, as long as it gets accessed. Working out at a low intensity, proper nutrition and stress management all play important roles here.
@@FlorisGierman Thank you for replying. The reason I asked this is that expert nutritionists say we cannot burn bodyfat whilst our insulin levels are raised which is for about 3hrs after eating carbohydrates. I'll also ask the nutritionists.. I'll update if I can get any more info.
FANTASTIC!
Thank you Floris and Dr Maffetone. Extremely helpful in my journey of slow running.
Happy to help!
Refined carbohydrates such as white flour does not metabolize to sugar. Its metabolizes to glucose which is used as energy in the whole body. Sugar is 50% fructose and 50% glucose. It’s fructose that’s over consumed and causes metabolic syndrome. The overfat obesity problem is sugar and high fructose corn syrup.
Hi Floris, found your channel recently. Awesome content, thank you.
Thanks Q, happy to hear that. Many videos for you to catch up on haha
Is junk food bad? Junk food may be bad, but it sure tastes good. So how can it all be bad?
🤷♂️
Much of the discussion of food uses moralistic terms. The Puritan heritage of our culture overshadows everything. It’s unfortunate that this discussion follows that model. It’s not helpful.
Very informative. Thank you
Way too many ads on this video
thanks for letting me know, I had no idea, YT auto put these in there and I just removed most of them. appreciate your comment
A varied, vegan diet rich in colourful fruit and vegetables provides a safe supply of all the vitamin A you need. The body converts just the right amount that it needs and no more. Whereas if obtained from meat the body does not have control over the amount taken in, and can then be toxic to varying degrees.
I train with the MAF system and it is remarkable if not obvious when you think about it, but I totally disagree with the doctor about meat consumption being ok.
Videos promoting the MAF method should include a disclaimer that its benefits touted by Maffetone have not been validated by peer-reviewed scientific research articles, not even a single article. There is probably not much harm done for most people, but know that the MAF method is more like The South Beach diet rather than like getting advice from a physiotherapist or medically trained doctor.
Sometimes what works isn’t peer reviewed. Do you realize how much junk science is peer reviewed? Look up the replication crisis in science.
I saw 1:13 and said WTF. 1:13 min later..oh I saw it 😮
🤷♂️
I am still amazed that athletes struggle with low heart rate training - this is the easiest, and safest type of training. How it works biologically that very good runners sometimes struggle with low heart rate - I do not understand...
I think it has to do with the amount of stress in society and the way we seek instant gratification. I find it takes awhile to warm up then theres a kind of zone about 15km in where theres a flow with low heart rate. Whereas with a tempo run will get a nice hit of endorphins like 5 minutes in.
@@danzacjones I agree with your psychological explanation - people want to run fast and asap. But they do not understand how amazing it feels to run EASILY - and u can run easily and quite fast. But it takes time. But i don't agree that getting into rhythm on low HR takes so much time - I think that u may need to warm up like 500 m od a 1km or sth. But not 15km...
Why bother looking for organic meat or buying a fuckload of eggs when you can solve all your protein problems simply by switching to legumes or taking a multivitamin every day? Go figure... That's all a matter of putting your taste buds before animal suffering to me. I'm plant-based and as soon as I switched I ran a PR of 1:43 in the half marathon (previous was 1:51), running so well I couldn't believe. And that was literally just a month after I stopped eating meat.
@@zed5129 My reaction was - jesus christ!
Awesome interview. My question is, if the purpose of the MAF method is to adapt the body to use fat for energy, if I'm in ketosis already (meaning my body is already using fat for energy) do I need to train on low heart rate? Regardless of how high my heart rate is, if my body is on ketosis already, it means it's using fat. I'm confused about it. Do both methods have the same goal, or does MAF have some different benefits other than running on fat? Thanks
Dr Maffetone should stick to running and don't talk about things he has no idea about, never hear so much wrong info about intermittent fasting in one video.
Second day of running at Maff hr. It is frustrating for my ego, I hate it when my times slip to above 6min/km but I am going to stick with it until at least the end of 2019 and see where I am in three months.
Need to read more into the low carb thing. I have my doubts but I don’t know enough to decide either way. Maybe it’s time to go thru Ketosis and try it for myself...
Here is a post that can help with your frustrations: extramilest.com/blog/overcoming-frustrations-maf-low-heart-rate-training/
Maffetone = cult.
You win stupidest comment ever, been using MAF since 1987 ,now at age 62 healthy and fit 34yrs doing triathlons, plus now having a GF with 25 old school yrs as a cardio othro rehab Rn who is even more conservative than Dr Maffetone , which means to protect the heart go even slower . Cult keep that relating to religion not health , once is a science that changes and adapts over time, religion is not facts, but feelings .
Making statements of fact without supporting arguments = cult
You’re mad mad.
Meat consumption is strongly correlated to higher mortality from all causes. The science has been in for a long, long time. Only low fat vegan diets have been shown to reverse heart disease-Ornish did the early research decades ago and it has only been confirmed over and over since. In the Blue Zones people do eat animal products-about 5% of calories or less. I respect Maffetone as a coach but in regards to nutrition he wouldn’t stand a chance in a debate with someone like Neal Barnard. Without a doubt eating organic meat is better than eating commercial meat. But heavy meat eating from any source is going to greatly increase your risk of heart disease, cancer and dementia. At minimum keep intake low.
The Japanese eat anything that comes from the sea. The meat consumption includes junk meat as he specifically mentioned.
Lost me when he stated on meat...meat is not healthy...he is taking nonsense...sat fat etc all bad
Cool story.