With this video, I decided to take it one step and further, and instead attempt to, hopefully, teach some history as well, and explain why the Legion's look as they do. Yes, I could have made the vid in just 30 seconds, but I felt the other stuff was important to.
It was welcomed🙂 Has anybody (especially you) made a Legion or more to conquer the world historically (instead of overwhelming spear men)? That sounds like a fun campaign with some limitations attached for a Challenge:)
Agreed. It's like he's never actually played the game and heard the units pronounce their names. Eck-whites. Triary. It's like he's never actually played the game and heard the units pronounce their names a million times over.
in multiplayer most of real strategies won't work because it's all matter of morale and not numbers and the number of men in online battles are nowhere near real numbers on the field at the time so it's not about huge number but small numbers and morale... it's not same have 1000 men and have 10000-20000 men
Yeahhh and phalanx is wayyyy easier to get behind then it was in real life. It took cav way longer to try to flank them then in game. Hoplites are severally nerfed in game. In game a urban corhort can easily fight a hoplite head on and route them without any help from the rear flank. Not at all possible in actual battle. In actual battle the urban corhort had 2 options. Lure hoplites to hilly terrain or keep them busy on the front while another unit sneaks up from behind.
Cool video ! As for ratios, there were about 1200 velites, 1200 hastati, 1200 principes, 600 triarii, 300 Roman cavalry (made up of the nobility, and they often came off their horses to fight on foot) + allied cav
I beg to differ on Praetorian cohorts. Historically, Claudius did send some Praetorians during his conquest of Britain. So, that's what I shall be doing....Praetorians gonna bring back that Yorkshire tea
I liked to use 4 Hastati, 4 Principi, 2 Triarii (Its important since the amount of Triarii per manipula was twice less than ordinary manipula of hastati or principi), 3 velites, 2 archers or slingers and other 5 slots - general, 2 shock cav, 2 support cav. To represent allied legio I was creating a bonus army for each legio filled with merc/ regional troops. This is how I played EB. In vanila everything same except I wasnt creating bonus army so often, only sometimes. P.S. Triarii suck in vanilla like any other spearmen its so frustrating after mods...
Great Video! I’ve been reading the “Marius Mules” book series by Simon J A Turney , which I highly recommend to anyone interested in Roman military history, you follow the legions through the start of the Gallic wars all the way to the Roman Civil war. It gives you in depth tactics and strategy which completely backs up every thing you’ve just said in the video. Thanks!
In Rome 1, the Marian reforms kick in so fast that one has rarely the chance to deploy proper Polybian legions. But normally, my pre-Marian legions look like: 5 hastati, 5 principles, 2 triarii, 1 hoplite, 3 velites, 1 samnite, 2 equites, 1 general. Once the reforms have happened, I use the early legionary cohorts for a while, before switching to the Legionary cohorts, so to reflect the historical development in a more accurate way. Anyway, legionary cohorts can handle any enemy troops the player will encounter.... it is just a bit more a challenge if the Roman AI uses a lot of urban or Pretorian cohorts once the civil war has broken out.
@@ViktoriousDead Depends how you define “plenty”.... For some players 30 turns, for others 50 or more... Normally, one has not even time to have triarii in a stack...
Just one small correction. The standart number of Triarii are 1/3 against Hastati and Principes. So instead of 3 units you could have used one. Otherwise very nice video!
True, but I counted the Socci units as representing allied Hestati and Principes. So, there were 5 units of hestati and Principes in that army, even though they did not look it in game - due to appearance limitations. Should have rounded to 2 Triarii.
Equaites.... History buff here, and you did a great job with the structure. The pronunciation tho... Also, the triplex acies was also used by Brutus, Caesar, Pompey ecc. with early cohorts.
Spearman at the back seems really bizarre, they’re good anti-calv and good for hammer and anvil tactics. I mean the roman strategy worked so who am I to question it but still it looks weird in game
Melkor, this "formation with gaps" were used only couple times in recorded roman history... It's seem that they use casual 3 lines structure , because it is already good as it is:)
Had an interesting fight on my Juli campaign against a tough briton army from the north. I had like 7/8 generals at arrinetum going to the scriptorium to be “better” as Roman generals suffer from wealth and corruption worse than say Gaulish generals who get stars like it’s going out of style. so I managed to finally get 16 year old juliuis Caesar as I hit Marius reforms, I thought I’d send the green but extremely well equipped 12 mixed equally early legionaries and leginory cohort with 3 generals that had the best (mostly 1 or 2 star that wasn’t faction leader or heir) and basically had 3 mini army’s. So 3 post Marian Roman armoured generals with 4 centuries of men each plus auxiliary units and missile units means you can send the legions and skirmisher units first and then send the general in to finish off with a charge, and chase them down to level up but with 3 characters that could get elected to the senate! So historically these guys are just Military Tribunes who are Roman citizens climbing the Roman Social Ladder. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_tribune. It’s the most fun I’ve had in Rome levelling up julius Caesar honestly him just getting all the glory is amazing! but you can’t help but feel bad 😅
Just thought I’d mention the book “Rubicon” is brilliant, very easy to read and informative, the author - Tom Holland I think - has released a sequel of sorts that covers the first emperors of Rome - “Dynasty”
MELKOR no hate, but in latin things are largely pronounced hiw they are spelled without english exceptions. So Equites would have the e pronounced, kind of sounding like like “lays”.again, thanks for the content.
@@midshipman8654 They are pronounced how they are spelled in Latin, with Latin pronuncuation. Very different from English phonology, the letters share some similar, but quite different sounds.
Good effort. Historical accuracy is tricky with entertainment. That said, I'd love to play games that were historically accurate, or at-least have an arcade version and a dryly highly restrictive historical campaign. King's and generals is decent food for historical thought. Presented memorably.
You didn't talk about the scorpions and the onagers ... By the way in some occasions the pretprian guards were used on the battlefield as an elite forces... altho only if really necessary and a really few times...
XD you spelt it wrong twice, but anyway, true they did. I did not include them because usually they did'nt. As for onagers and scorpions, I beleive they were in the same catagory as Balistas, but came much later as a frequent part of a standard legion
Melkor, Splendid video! Sorry it took me about 6 months to find it. Is there any chance of getting more videos like this for later armies, such as the Late Roman Army and medieval Roman (Byzantine) armies and their formations?
Is there a way to postpone the Marius reform or give it a set date like 100 BC? After 50 or 60 years in the game I get the announcement that the reform takes places. Just about when I would get some Triarii in the game...I feel that the time to play the pre-Marian period is too short.
Now I’m not exactly expecting a response, but if Anyone is here, please respond and tell me how to get the first cohort in campaign. I can’t figure out how to do it!
Let's not kid ourselves: Rome 2 Divide et Impera gives the best results for Historic Campaigns. (Added roster, polybian units, romanized regional units, specific traits etc)
5:00 I don't wanna sound like an asshole but you're marian legion isn't a marian legion but rather an imperial one.(You're legionaries are using Lorica Segmentata which was available on imperial troops) The imoerial legion had to go through the imperial augustus reforms. Instead the marian republican legion should contain early legionary cohorts(Marian legionaries look very similiar to principes with some differences) The early legionary cohorts would use Lorica Hamata(chainmail) for armor. DEI does this even more accurately with 3 reforms(Polybian, Marian, and jmlerial) instead of rome 1's marian reforms. Other than that, great video. :)
Yep, that was just to show the next level of them, I said they come later, but yes, I should have made that clearer. 3:55 - 4:30 was meant to be the Marian Reform one.
@MELKOR Ah i dont like to be that guy but if i heard you said marian reform happened 17 bc... It was 107 bc (i believe you know this and that was just unintentional mistake)
Possibly, depends how well this one does, although there was one suggestion to look into Barbarian Invasion and other factions. Don't know yet, although this could be a very interesting series.
I really enjoy your vids man, but I always cringe at these Latin names. I don't want to be that person, writing these kinda comments, but today I will. Aaarh! Ive got problems, I'm sorry 😅 Aren't you in university or something? Don't you learn somewhat proper pronunciation? And again. I'm sorry. Don't answer if you will. Ive just got problems
You need to brush up on your English, your pronunciation of regular English words is abysmal . That's not even mention your butchering of the Roman unit names.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
With this video, I decided to take it one step and further, and instead attempt to, hopefully, teach some history as well, and explain why the Legion's look as they do.
Yes, I could have made the vid in just 30 seconds, but I felt the other stuff was important to.
I Loved It
how I can get
early Legionary First Cohort
or the first legionary cohort
in campaign please
It was welcomed🙂
Has anybody (especially you) made a Legion or more to conquer the world historically (instead of overwhelming spear men)?
That sounds like a fun campaign with some limitations attached for a Challenge:)
"triari didn't have spears the length of hoplites... that said neither did the hoplites"
😂😂😂 LOL!!!
Hoplites spear length change when necessary, especially after the Greeks encounter the Persians and later the Macedonians.
Must admit it’s the weirdest way Ive heard someone pronounce the various unit names
Agreed. It's like he's never actually played the game and heard the units pronounce their names.
Eck-whites.
Triary.
It's like he's never actually played the game and heard the units pronounce their names a million times over.
Yeah, this guy pronounces latin words extremely strangely.
the real question is whether the historically accurate legion is effective in total war multiplayer
It kind of is, depending on the opponent. But there's better ways.
URBAN SPAM FTW
in multiplayer most of real strategies won't work because it's all matter of morale and not numbers and the number of men in online battles are nowhere near real numbers on the field at the time so it's not about huge number but small numbers and morale... it's not same have 1000 men and have 10000-20000 men
It works, just change legionaries to urbans, make little more archers without auxilia spearmen and profit.
Yeahhh and phalanx is wayyyy easier to get behind then it was in real life. It took cav way longer to try to flank them then in game. Hoplites are severally nerfed in game. In game a urban corhort can easily fight a hoplite head on and route them without any help from the rear flank. Not at all possible in actual battle. In actual battle the urban corhort had 2 options. Lure hoplites to hilly terrain or keep them busy on the front while another unit sneaks up from behind.
Urbans also fought some battle in the field
True, but as said, this is just the typical legion. Usually they didn't so they were not included.
Cool video ! As for ratios, there were about 1200 velites, 1200 hastati, 1200 principes, 600 triarii, 300 Roman cavalry (made up of the nobility, and they often came off their horses to fight on foot) + allied cav
I beg to differ on Praetorian cohorts. Historically, Claudius did send some Praetorians during his conquest of Britain. So, that's what I shall be doing....Praetorians gonna bring back that Yorkshire tea
Equi-Tes.
More of these videos, good work Melkor 👍🏻
I liked to use 4 Hastati, 4 Principi, 2 Triarii (Its important since the amount of Triarii per manipula was twice less than ordinary manipula of hastati or principi), 3 velites, 2 archers or slingers and other 5 slots - general, 2 shock cav, 2 support cav.
To represent allied legio I was creating a bonus army for each legio filled with merc/ regional troops. This is how I played EB. In vanila everything same except I wasnt creating bonus army so often, only sometimes.
P.S. Triarii suck in vanilla like any other spearmen its so frustrating after mods...
After I learned that the war dogs can chase units outside the map I immediately started using them lol
could you do this for barbarian invasion
Probably. Depends how well this one does
Great Video! I’ve been reading the “Marius Mules” book series by Simon J A Turney , which I highly recommend to anyone interested in Roman military history, you follow the legions through the start of the Gallic wars all the way to the Roman Civil war. It gives you in depth tactics and strategy which completely backs up every thing you’ve just said in the video. Thanks!
In Rome 1, the Marian reforms kick in so fast that one has rarely the chance to deploy proper Polybian legions. But normally, my pre-Marian legions look like: 5 hastati, 5 principles, 2 triarii, 1 hoplite, 3 velites, 1 samnite, 2 equites, 1 general. Once the reforms have happened, I use the early legionary cohorts for a while, before switching to the Legionary cohorts, so to reflect the historical development in a more accurate way. Anyway, legionary cohorts can handle any enemy troops the player will encounter.... it is just a bit more a challenge if the Roman AI uses a lot of urban or Pretorian cohorts once the civil war has broken out.
BS, you have PLENTY of time to use pre Marian armies:...
@@ViktoriousDead Depends how you define “plenty”.... For some players 30 turns, for others 50 or more... Normally, one has not even time to have triarii in a stack...
Just one small correction. The standart number of Triarii are 1/3 against Hastati and Principes. So instead of 3 units you could have used one. Otherwise very nice video!
True, but I counted the Socci units as representing allied Hestati and Principes. So, there were 5 units of hestati and Principes in that army, even though they did not look it in game - due to appearance limitations.
Should have rounded to 2 Triarii.
Equaites....
History buff here, and you did a great job with the structure. The pronunciation tho...
Also, the triplex acies was also used by Brutus, Caesar, Pompey ecc. with early cohorts.
You could ramble on for one more minute, but you didn't. You're very cool thanks
Spearman at the back seems really bizarre, they’re good anti-calv and good for hammer and anvil tactics. I mean the roman strategy worked so who am I to question it but still it looks weird in game
I agree. I don't see the point in it at all. XD
Because the threat of cav charge to a normal legion is sides and back. The legions had spears they threw as well
I see that you also watch Emperortigerstar
Yeah, I always steal screenshots of his maps XD
I always love your historical videos
bought this game when first came out. LOVED it. Might just do it again from steam.
Praetorians were used in battles though, especially by Augustus in the wars after the death of caesar
Will you do These Kind of Videos for Other factions too ?
Never thought about that, but I do like the idea, so maybe I will. Carthage could be a really interesting one : )
@@MelkorGG carthage yes please man
MELKOR please after that do macedon or any order phalanx factions
@@MelkorGG For Seleucids, check parade at Daphne (166 BC).
@@lestecz6700 Seconded. Bomilkar the Conqueror demands it!
Melkor, this "formation with gaps" were used only couple times in recorded roman history... It's seem that they use casual 3 lines structure , because it is already good as it is:)
Had an interesting fight on my Juli campaign against a tough briton army from the north. I had like 7/8 generals at arrinetum going to the scriptorium to be “better” as Roman generals suffer from wealth and corruption worse than say Gaulish generals who get stars like it’s going out of style. so I managed to finally get 16 year old juliuis Caesar as I hit Marius reforms, I thought I’d send the green but extremely well equipped 12 mixed equally early legionaries and leginory cohort with 3 generals that had the best (mostly 1 or 2 star that wasn’t faction leader or heir) and basically had 3 mini army’s. So 3 post Marian Roman armoured generals with 4 centuries of men each plus auxiliary units and missile units means you can send the legions and skirmisher units first and then send the general in to finish off with a charge, and chase them down to level up but with 3 characters that could get elected to the senate! So historically these guys are just Military Tribunes who are Roman citizens climbing the Roman Social Ladder. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_tribune. It’s the most fun I’ve had in Rome levelling up julius Caesar honestly him just getting all the glory is amazing! but you can’t help but feel bad 😅
Just thought I’d mention the book “Rubicon” is brilliant, very easy to read and informative, the author - Tom Holland I think - has released a sequel of sorts that covers the first emperors of Rome - “Dynasty”
Love the graphics of Rome 1
You just Butchered Socci,It's actually Sokki as in correct Pronounce.
Trust me, for me, I got close enough. XD
MELKOR no hate, but in latin things are largely pronounced hiw they are spelled without english exceptions. So Equites would have the e pronounced, kind of sounding like like “lays”.again, thanks for the content.
@@midshipman8654 They are pronounced how they are spelled in Latin, with Latin pronuncuation. Very different from English phonology, the letters share some similar, but quite different sounds.
Good effort. Historical accuracy is tricky with entertainment. That said, I'd love to play games that were historically accurate, or at-least have an arcade version and a dryly highly restrictive historical campaign. King's and generals is decent food for historical thought. Presented memorably.
U can just edit the files into allowing phalanx formation on triarii
Been watching you for awhile. Finally subscribed. Oof. Great channel.
GIVE HIM MONEY!
You didn't talk about the scorpions and the onagers ... By the way in some occasions the pretprian guards were used on the battlefield as an elite forces... altho only if really necessary and a really few times...
*pretorian
XD you spelt it wrong twice, but anyway, true they did. I did not include them because usually they did'nt.
As for onagers and scorpions, I beleive they were in the same catagory as Balistas, but came much later as a frequent part of a standard legion
@@MelkorGG XD- What is the correct spelling then?
@@gaborholotajr.4427 praetorian
I don't know it either, I had to google it. : )
@@MelkorGG Thank you. Now spell it in literal Yorkshire pronounceiation, please. XD
Melkor,
Splendid video! Sorry it took me about 6 months to find it.
Is there any chance of getting more videos like this for later armies, such as the Late Roman Army and medieval Roman (Byzantine) armies and their formations?
6:11 "However the chances are you've already beaten the game by that point."
Jokes on you, I'm shit at this game!
In Rome you will find it hard to find the difference between pikemen and hoplites
Length of the pike
forgive my ignorance, maybe someone has asked before, but what's with the fez? :D
XD Been a meme on the chanell for about 4 years now.
Just for comedy : )
0:38 I thought they were pronounced in a different way. And the triarii
I'm just copying other youtubers with my pronunciation, it may or may not be right.
@@MelkorGG I have nothing against it, I was just quoting it.
@@MelkorGG ur pronunciation is right
Is there a way to postpone the Marius reform or give it a set date like 100 BC?
After 50 or 60 years in the game I get the announcement that the reform takes places. Just about when I would get some Triarii in the game...I feel that the time to play the pre-Marian period is too short.
Bro your voice sounded in mind like you were 40+ years old LOL
Can you make accurate armies for all the factions
He’ll yeah
* Socii ~ /so-kee-ee/
* No such thing as an 'urban cohort'
The Saucy!
Very cool.
The next stream is this friday on your second channel, right ?
Saturday.
Turns out I cannot do Friday this week
Shame we didn't conquer Rome
@@george52066 I have a son !!! My successor ! You shall conquer Rome, when my time has come, you will have a strong state capable of such a task.
Can you do this in rome 2
how I can get
early Legionary First Cohort
or the first legionary cohort
in campaign please
Your city’s have to reach a certain size
Nice fez.
Now I’m not exactly expecting a response, but if Anyone is here, please respond and tell me how to get the first cohort in campaign. I can’t figure out how to do it!
You need the city of Rome and an urban barrack in it to train first cohort bestay ☺️
@@mate5571 ah! Thank you so much! I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to this. 🙂
Let's not kid ourselves: Rome 2 Divide et Impera gives the best results for Historic Campaigns. (Added roster, polybian units, romanized regional units, specific traits etc)
True, no one can really deny it I don't think
Eb does it too
Do it for rome 2
Do macedon one
Whats ur accent from
Hey can you do Rome 2 ones ? Thanks
They will be coming. : )
Don't know when, but they will come up eventually
rome 2 is better suited for that because it allows 40 units per army vs the 20 of RTW. Not to mention the highest variety of units
Not to mention Rome 2 sucks complete ass
5:00 I don't wanna sound like an asshole but you're marian legion isn't a marian legion but rather an imperial one.(You're legionaries are using Lorica Segmentata which was available on imperial troops) The imoerial legion had to go through the imperial augustus reforms. Instead the marian republican legion should contain early legionary cohorts(Marian legionaries look very similiar to principes with some differences) The early legionary cohorts would use Lorica Hamata(chainmail) for armor. DEI does this even more accurately with 3 reforms(Polybian, Marian, and jmlerial) instead of rome 1's marian reforms. Other than that, great video. :)
Yep, that was just to show the next level of them, I said they come later, but yes, I should have made that clearer.
3:55 - 4:30 was meant to be the Marian Reform one.
@MELKOR Ah i dont like to be that guy but if i heard you said marian reform happened 17 bc... It was 107 bc (i believe you know this and that was just unintentional mistake)
I think that's what happened
He was going to say one-oh-seven BC, and it came out in the video as one-seven BC, I think
next tutorial is for rome 2 right?
Possibly, depends how well this one does, although there was one suggestion to look into Barbarian Invasion and other factions. Don't know yet, although this could be a very interesting series.
sudden face reveal is ... jarring.
Socii pronounce more like So-key-i
Or So-key-eye
I love your channel and content but at least google the pronounciation of the latin words (i.e. Equites - E-Kwee-Tess, Socii - SO-Kee-Ee)
Have you been pronouncing equites wrong for 20 years?
XD Nah, no idea why I got them wrong in this vid.
That is usually one that I can pronounce.
The way you pronounce Latin words makes my ears crawl inside my head
Good vid tho
I really enjoy your vids man, but I always cringe at these Latin names. I don't want to be that person, writing these kinda comments, but today I will. Aaarh! Ive got problems, I'm sorry 😅 Aren't you in university or something? Don't you learn somewhat proper pronunciation? And again. I'm sorry. Don't answer if you will. Ive just got problems
I mean you didnt have to butcher EVERY WORD. They basically say it in game. Just listen and copy
speech issues
You need to brush up on your English, your pronunciation of regular English words is abysmal . That's not even mention your butchering of the Roman unit names.