Alternate universe: Shilpa and Colin are NOT perfect logicians. The Host continues to ask "Do you know now?", continuing to get the same response of deafening silence for infinity.
I managed to figure it out in my head in under a minute but if somebody was asking "do you know now?" I would literally not even be able to figure out the first elimination.
You will be contacted. Our agent will ask for directions on the street and show you a map with a red hexagon. You will reply "Three blocks west, and I recommend the fish chowder." Bring nothing, the training facility will supply all your needs.
Does “...the initial setup is common knowledge” mean that both Shilpa and Colin know that the other was told the value of the opposite characteristic of shape or color from what they themself were told? Or does the setup refer to the shapes and colors of the objects only? This is not explicitly mentioned and is crucial to the ability to solve the problem by Shilpa and Colin, and therefore to our ability to be sure whether the responses by them are given with certainty or not. If the meaning of the quoted phrase does not mean this, the problem as presented is incomplete because it requires us to assume each person knew what characteristic-though not the value-the other was told or even whether their counterpart was told anything. All we know that they know is that they knew what they themself were told privately. There is no mention of anything with which either-much less both-of them could have deduced what, if any, information the other was told, so this would require each of them to make an assumption about what the other did or did not know. Therefore the problem would be unsolvable with certainty by either of them and the information we are given regarding their responses cannot be assumed to be correct and without uncertainty, therefore the problem is unsolvable with certainty by us. So we can make an assumption and solve for the green triangle, or go with only the known information and conclude there is not enough information given to arrive at a solution with certainty. This is the complete solution to this problem as stated. Sloppy statements in a setup for a problem of logic lead to problematic solutions.
This little tidbit here is not to be underestimated; as soon as I saw your comment before I had solved it, I knew I was looking at it wrong and was then able to figure it out pretty easily. Nice looking out.
didn't seem like a hard question at all. depending on how much time you got. if you have all the time you need, a child can solve it. if you got 5 minutes most adults should be able to solve it.
Three logicians walked into a bar. The bartender asked, "Do y'all want beer?". None of them replied. When the bartender repeated the question, they said in unison, "Yes".
I tell the version where they’re asked “do any of you want beer?” and the first one says “I don’t know”, the second one says “I don’t know”, and then the third one says “no”. Sort of the reverse joke.
It feels good at first but I'm conflicted. On one hand, this is presented as a difficult problem. On the other hand, I found it very easy, and I don't know if that means I'm really smart, or I've fallen for the kind of trick used by fake online IQ tests where they ask an easy question and praise you for it.
The real test is actually solving it with another person and a host asking you the questions. Recognizing the logical solution is the beginning, conveying that to someone else is what matters. Source: definitely didn't get into Oxford, but I'm still trying really hard.
@@bonecag3 assuming these people know that the girl focuses on the shape, and the girl knows the guy focuses on the color. Then they just sort them and know what color and shape to elimimate from both color and shape.
i solved it also and im certainly not overly smart. I did however assume (coz we were not told) that each knew the other had been given a different clue
That was really interesting. I've never been able to understand that sort of logic puzzle as my mind just goes blank. It was great hearing the explanation as it actually made sense and gives me hope that one day I'll actually be able to work one out.
I like to think of these kinds of puzzles as exercising a different brain ‘muscle’ than we’re used to using. If you think of it like that, it’s easy to understand that ‘mind going blank’ response. If you put me in front of a set of dumbbells, I would stand there like “uhhhhhh….” and probably just leave. I completely get it. I totally believe in you!!!! 💜 Work those logic muscles and show yourself how awesome you are!!
@@sally8708 Thanks Sally. I shall replay your words of encouragement in my head from now on whenever l see a similar puzzle. It's not very objective, l know, but I normally consider myself quite intelligent. Lol. These sorts of puzzles have defeated and frustrated me all my life. I think that's why l enjoyed the explanation so much 'cos for the first time ever l could see some sort of logical process.
@@nikiTricoteuse Eh he's probably not wrong. It stands to reason that a person who is more likely to put themselves in the shoes of the people described in the problem (i.e. someone exercising empathy) is more likely to solve the problem.
@@DiogenesNephew, yep but the defense mechanism will not allow to accept the truth and think reasonably. Some problems in life are solved naturally when got the right attitude
Reminds me of a joke: Three logicians walk into a bar. The barman says "would you all like a drink?", The first logician says "I don't know", the second says "I don't know", and the third says "yes".
@@syupdengixx The first logician wants a drink, because if they didn't they would already know that not all of them wanted a drink. However, they can't be sure that the logicians after them also want a drink. The second logician wants a drink, because if they didn't they would already know that not all of them wanted a drink. However, they can't be sure that the logician next in line also wants a drink. The third logician knows that neither of the two before them has declined a drink, and knows that they themselves also wants a drink, so therefore all three must want a drink.
Honestly, it's a gap in how this this puzzle is written. I assumed it meant "No", but like you said, silence could mean they're still thinking or something, and probably throws a lot of people off.
+Looks at interviewer+: _"Dude, I'm going to law school, we deal with firm tangible evidence that we must explain to people who in some instances can't read or write."_ 🙄
The fallacy of this contrived scenario is that silence is neither a denial nor a confirmation. It is a non-response. The presumption that silence has a consistent and shared meaning is outside of the bounds of logic. It is more of a canard than a puzzle.
I'm an accountant, so this was easy for me. MY 'EASY' ANSWER WAS: _"I don't have a freakin CLUE which object the prize is under... but _*_let's talk about the tax implications on the value of whatever the prize is, and I can tell you about the special pricing we're having for our tax prep services."_*
I went into this riddle thinking that Shilpa and Collin didnt know what the other knew. I had too rewatch this vid to read “The initial setup is common knowledge” I missed what that meant at first 🤦♀️
Or that "initial setup" includes the questions each was asked, which is more doubtful when they are 'asked quietly'. Janky - trying to hide the premise.
The initial setup is the 5 colored shapes you see on screen and the fact that one knows color while the other knows shape. Each "silence" is a "no", eliminating two places it could be under for both people. Like, say it were yellow, then one who knows what color would've immediately said yes the first time, and the only single color on the board was yellow. Since they both stayed silent, it was eliminated as a possibility. Same goes for the square being a one of a kind shape.
@@mariolanz4187 ...what does that have to do with anything? The puzzle'w answer is contingent on shape, color, and the same question being asked thrice, not what shape can be hidden under another. The shapes and colors are just the setup, the logic portion is in the question.
@@MyNameJeff00 that’s not true at all. I paused the video and literally went “okay square is impossible, yellow is impossible” etc. until I got the answer
1. their initial silence confirms it is not the yellow circle or the blue square as these two objects are unique to the rest and if either of them were told square or yellow they would instantly know it is either or. 2.their silence on the second question confirms that Colin has not been told blue as the triangle is the only blue shape left and Shilpa has not been told circle as their is only one circle left. 3. this leaves the green triangle as the answer :) i didnt actually watch the video this is just my method of solving it so i dont know if it is similar to Presh's soultion.
@@michaelmcgregor7374 "asinine", and this problem was broken down in much the same way a computer program would need to be written to solve it, so yes, "logical".
I came to the correct answer but not the same way, after the first silence I knew it couldn't be the square or yellow but I didn't remove them, then I ask what other colors would give more options my figuring blue triangle and the green circle, being that triangle & blue were already represented and circle & green were already represented then actually removed them from contemplation. This left me with three unique shapes w unique colors two which I were TOO unique to be correct as color(yellow) and shape(square), leaving me with the only option of Green Triangle. Hope this was interesting and not a total waste of your time 🙂.
@@subhajit1128 Colin knows the color. Shilpa can deduce that the color is not yellow from Colin's silence during the first instance of "Do you know," because if Colin WAS told yellow he'd immediately have an answer.
@@subhajit1128 Exactly! The initial conditions are totally confusing. I got it that one only knows the shapes and the other one - only colors. But no, they know both. It's only the shape or the color of "the object" what was told privately. And this "object" is actually "the prize". I don't know, maybe it's me not being native English speaker, but from my point the conditions are formulated ridiculously unclear.
@@valentinap2432 Shilpa is told the shape, Conor is told the color, and they deduce information about what the other person was told based on their respective responses to a third party asking "Do you know where the thing is?"
I do not equate silence to "I don't know." I initially read silence as "I know, but don't want to give the answer away," which cost me a few moments before I managed to solve the puzzle.
Happy to say I did figure it out, and it does definitely take a certain kind of thinking. The kind that actually feels good and like a small revelation when you finally know for sure. Nice puzzle!
@4Runner telling someone what they thought is a lie doesn't make logical sense. It was easy for him, he is asking others if it was easy. That is a subjective statement, there is no possibility for it to be a lie for that singular person because it is based on his/her point of view.
This would have made more sense to me, if instead of remaining silent after the first two rounds they said "not yet". Because I didn't interpret the silence as a no.
@@sean-mo9gf No, they are not, assuming you would give one answer and lock that in. Imagine one of them WOULD'VE known first round (i. e. Colin was told "yellow" or Shilpa was told "square"). Shilpa cannot answer "no" until she knows Colin's answer. Because if Colin's answer is "Yes", then she can deduce that color alone can identify the object, so she knows it's the yellow circle as well. So her definitive answer depends on Colin's answer - if it is "yes", then her answer is "yes" as well. If his answer is "no", then her answer is "no" as well. Colin has the same problem - he doesn't know either what answer to lock in for this round, until he knows if Shilpa says Yes or No. So both their answers are dependent on the other person to answer first. This is a deadlock, and both cannot answer first. This of course only makes sense if you can only say "yes" or "no", and your first answer is also immediately considered your final answer for this round and has to be correct to win the prize.
Same. Once you get it you realize it's quite simple and it follows the same mechanic three times. It was fun to imagine Shilpa and Colin intensely staring at each other while making deductions lol
I'm glad that I had time to study this over and over. I am surprised at how satisfying it feels, but I also realize that I could not have figured it out on my own (i.e. without the video's help). That sort of frustrates me, but it is what it is.
The trick to wining at clue is to ask yes or no questions with OR conditions -- does the person have glasses OR is bald? If no, you can eliminate more. If yes, you can eliminate more.
You should really clarify that they both are told what information the other has. Otherwise, to solve this you need to make the assumption that Shilpa has been informed that Colin knows the shape, and that Colin has been informed that Shilpa knows the colour (you state that they have been privately told, which could easily mean that they haven't been told what the other knows)
@@Headless_Hessian initial setup is the whole setup in this instance, there is no additional setup beyond the initial setup... in fact it was redundant to refer to the setup as the initial setup. "And the setup is common knowledge." is how they should've said it.
Not gonna lie, when it was said that “the initial setup is common knowledge,” that kinda just flew over my head. Had I known that this actually meant that Shilpa was told that Colin knew the color, and Colin was told that Shilpa knew the shape, I probably would’ve been able to deduce the answer better. It wasn’t until I watched through the second step of the solution that I realized they both knew that they had a different piece of information. This would’ve made solving it so much easier.
I also misunderstood that phrase. I thought it was meant to clarify that common knowledge dictates the names of the shapes and colors in the puzzle. I just assumed, they have to know about each other's knowledge for the puzzle to make sense :D
@@BenBike Same. In my head. How can they know where the prize is if the other only knows the color but not the shape while the other person know the shape but not the color. There are 2 pairs if identical colors and 1 unique color. Same with the shape, 2 identical pairs of shapes and 1 unique shape.
I went through the entire process in my head in about 10 seconds, while having tea and a Choco Pie, without even realising the logic of what I was doing. It was just: "OK, it clearly can't be these two". I only had to think about it at the last step, when the two triangles and a circle were left. And even then I only did it after arriving at the obviously correct answer during the initial 10 seconds, just to double-check myself and ask: "But why?". Funny thing is, even after double-checking myself I still couldn't lay out the entire logical chain. That's heuristical thinking/Kahneman's System 1 for you.
@@oddities-whatnot The relevance is that System 1 is highly efficient and works in the background, so that you can be slurping tea and chomping on a Choco Pie while solving these kinds of problems, whereas you can't do that with System 2, because it's highly inefficient. But you'll have to use that system if you're looking for the logical chain answer. Or you could use a computer, which was made to be a much better System 2 than us humans ^_^
Can't wait to get my Oxford admission in the mail because I did this easy puzzle. I knew that my Mom doing my homework throughout high-school would make me very smart!
@@joshuazatarain7967 I think yes, for the most part. My thought process was sort of "Well, I don't know what it is, so is there anything that it can't be?" and "okay, then what's the significance of it being 3 times?"
Wow. I just finished watching TED Ed riddles, and this is child's play. I got it before he even finished reading the question. At the end of the second clue, it was obviously under the green triangle. I know, without watching the rest of the video or finding the answer in any other way, because when neither say anything in the first round, you can eliminate the blue square and the yellow circle. Then, when no one says anything, you can eliminate the blue triangle and green circle. That leaves you with just the green triangle.
I learned two things about myself. According to this puzzle I do not immediately think logically and I could not do this in my head but would require pen and paper. Thanks for this. This was fun. You may have set me on a road to understand more.
There are 2 ways to solve this puzzle. One is by deduction, which is probably explained (but i didnt look at that to be honest): None of what is said is relevant, from the very first question "do either of you know.." You have all you need to know before that starts. 1 knows color, 1 knows shape. And both know that each has gotten that information. There is only 1 yellow and there is only 1 square. Both need to be discarded and both people would know that they should be discarded, bc none of them can have been given the correct answer. That would destroy the logic puzzle, which would be illogical. So thats not valid. Then they would both be left with green triangle, blue triangle and green circle. Same thing again. It cant be blue, bc there is only 1 blue. It cant be circle, bc there is only one circle. So its green triangle. Which they both would know. The other is by understanding the puzzle (ill explain) and then quickly going over it visually, excluding. This method is faster, but requires training in understanding the problem given and where the answer must be. So, it requires you to listen carefully to what information is given. at start stage they say 'common knowledge', 5 objects, with 3 variations in color and 3 variations in shape. Both get ONE exclusion criterium. What you should quickly understand from that is that the prize will be under the one that has most common traits, colorwise, and shapewise. That means you can exclude all outlyers! yellow - gone square - gone left is green circle, gren triangle and blue triangle circle - gone blue - gone Green triangle left. Above 6 lines are about 1 second or less of looking at it and discarding. bc you eliminate all outlyers without having to think about it. You can train this sort of logic and understanding very well and will get better and faster at it all the time. Its fun ;]
This one is fairly intuitive. When they're both silent after the first question. we know it's not yellow or a square. and when they're both silent after the second question, we know that another iteration is required. and since the green triangle is 2 iterations from both the yellow object and the square object then that must be the answer
@@TheRealSimeon I know my mental limits. One big limit for me is my working memory, I can't hold enough information in my head. Also I don't have the greatest IQ, it's around average. IQ tests actually are correct, even if people don't want to admit it. You notice the step where you can't process the pattern anymore.
The blue □ and the yellow ◯ are unique in shape or color. So they are eliminated in the first round. Then the blue △ and the green ◯ become unique and eliminated in the 2nd round. Now, only the green △ is left.
Why though? We cant assume what silence means. Maybe one knew what it was and didnt say. And while we only knew they were silent, we dont know if they used non verbal communication either. Riddle relies on making assumptions.
@@phalcon23 It was said they use perfect logical reasoning. So they're basically like "computer code". They are silent because they both knew the other won't have the solution yet. That's part of the puzzle. And when they knew, they told so, as that's what they have to due to the perfect logical reasoning. Also, non verbal communication is communication too.
@@gargaduk well as someone who writes computer code, that is not perfectly logical. If you ask a yes or no question, you expect to get an answer back, never silence.
@@phalcon23 Not really. The question is "Do either of you know where the prize is". Logically, they don't know what the *other* one knows. So they can't say either yes or no. Therefore, silence.
@@gargaduk well they cant lie, so if one person knows it, they would say yes, and the other one could also then say yes as well. you could also add 3rd opttion "unknonwn, or not sure" logic doesn't have to be binary.
This is such a simple problem as long as you understand what it’s asking of you. I misunderstood the setup, thinking that Colin only knew the colors and shilpa only knew the shapes, but they in fact both knew the colors and shapes of all five, but each was told info on what the prize was.
I think you guys misunderstand the problem. The problem isn't simple at all. Colin did only know the correct color and Shilpa only knew the correct shape. It doesn't make sense to say that Colin knew the colors of all objects. I can also tell you that it's extremely hard to do this in your head for anyone because of how our brain works. Our brain can only handle 3-4 short-term facts at once. And, given that there are so many different pieces of information here, it's really hard to figure this problem out instantaneously. You'll need at least several minutes to think it over and over again until the short-term details become strengthened into long-term memory.
@@morninglift1253 no, they both know the shape and color of all of the objects, one just knows the color of the prize while the other knows the shape. It’s impossible to solve otherwise, since neither person would be able to rule anything out
I was able to get this puzzle correct on the first try; however, this puzzle makes the assumption that Shilpa was told that they told Colin color, and Colin was told that they told Shilpa shape. If one didn't know what the other was told, this puzzle would not be solvable.
The video says “Shilpa knows the shape” and “Colin knows the color”, then says “the initial setup is common knowledge.” So yes, it would not work if they didn’t know that-but the puzzle states at the outset that they did.
@@celts3760 The wording is vague, but Bart is correct: it’s common knowledge that Shilpa knows the shape and Colin knows the color. The information that was communicated privately is *exactly which* shape Shilpa was told and *exactly which* color Colin was told.
@@notanetdeck5264 "Shilpa and Colin are mathematicians who use perfect logical reasoning, and the initial setup is common knowledge." For a "given" to be valid in perfect logical reasoning, it has has to be explicit and clear; not some vague implicit assumption. No where in the video do they explicitly state that Colin knows that Shilpa was told shape and Shilpa knows that Colin was told color. The initial setup could be nothing more than them knowing the shapes and colors used. That alone is not enough for people who use "perfect logical reasoning" to know that the other was told. If you can, provide a time stamp where it is explicitly stated that one knows that the other was told, but I couldn't find one!
Good one! With 69.5 Sun circuits... I can easily say, that those who've came out of Oxford know only what they are told. And MYD, had proven it by the use of those two words ''Tell & Told'' to total ad nausea. ''I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run. Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned. In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.'' ~ Sam Adams
The puzzle itself was pretty simple, but the "Do you know now" control part of it was rather ambiguous. If they were both equally fast at processing the logic, that part would be redundant. If they were not, there would be no way for them to know if the other's silence is an indication of choice or simply the fact that they didn't finish the "stage" yet, which is what the explanation and the question itself assumes. Maybe if the puzzle added something like "They were both given 10 seconds before I ask for an answer... and so on" would make it more clear. I hope they're not seriously using this to filter out applicants.
I mean instead of staying silent they could just have responded "no" which indicates they're finished accessing and have decided that they don't know. The problem is that the first to answer gives the second more information so instead, they remain silent and we're asked to assume if they needed more time they would have said so lol
You forgot to mention the fact that Shilpa and Colin can both hear/see each other, that is a HUGE determining factor when they base their next answer off of the others response.
Exactly. I was figuring out it couldn't be the yellow cirlcle or the square, otherwise on the first try either of them would have found the object. But I assumed they were figuring out the problem together by talking.
How else is this supposed to work? Magic? Obviously they have to be able to observe each others reactions, otherwise the "Yes" at the third stage wouldn't make any sense.
I didn't pause the video to try to solve it, but after I watched the video I don't think I would've got it anyways. But I need to watch more videosof this guy so I can learn this kind of rational thinking! :)
I mean...if he's asking them both at the same time, this becomes ten times easier. "Do you know now?" Shilpa: "Well, what color is it?" Collin: " Green. What shape?" S: "Triangle." Both: "Yeah, we know." Solved The puzzle never specified that the participants couldn't ask each other for further information XD
I'm so amazed at both Shilpa and Colin who, in total silence, managed to use a process of deduction without communicating with one another. I bow to them both.
well think of it like this, they are told that each other has another piece of information. which means they can start ruling out the likelihood that the other person would have been given a clue that was basically a direct answer. So then start by eliminating what is not a direct answer. i.e. yellow and square. this leaves green triangle as the only thing remaining with a pair for both color and shape.
Unfortunately you are *not* getting this right. You ASSUME a lot of things, the video makes the same mistake though. E.g. you assume: - Both persons see/hear each others reactions - it is not said they can do - both persons are not allowed to lie - it is not said they can't do and most important: - "silence" is the same as saying "no" - it is not said it is, and in REAL LIFE it usually isn't! (there are even more, these 3 only to illustrate how sloppy the test actually is) Only with this additional assumptions your solution (and of course the one in the video) is correct.
@@Slazlo-Brovnik not necessarily. Yes, although not said directly you have to go by percentage and psychological theory. EX: chances are people (group) would choose a particular color vs a random color. Also assuming on that concept, if you take a closer look the percentile of green and triangle to come up is alot higher. Which can be seen after second assumption. Although you do make some good points in your logic.
@@TheBlackWOLFofDeath1 Basically you are adding information based on (valid) assumptions - not information which is in the test … thus OUTSIDE Information. That is something you usually do not do in mathematics and logic. But let's assume you are right. Then e.g. the fact remains, that most people would probably just answer the question with "no" instead of being silent it they do not know. So IF we permit outside information such as psychological theory, then the test still does not work. So either we ONLY take the information which is given in the wording of the test - then it does not work, as there are some important things we ASSUME but do not know (e.g. do they need to answer correctly?). OR we accept that assumptions are okay to aid the phrasing of the test, but then an assumption most people would do ist that silence is something different from answering with no ... and the test again does not work. Deadlock. The test just does not work as presented in the Video.
Here is the real Oxford Entry Exam How many alums are in your family? If more than 2, go to step 2. Does at least one of them have a bank account in excess of 10 million pounds? If yes, congrats and welcome to Oxford!
I graduated Oxford last May. I landed my first post-graduate job interview two weeks later. Things seemed to go well and at the end of the interview I asked, "Do I supply my own green, blue and yellow geometric shapes...or does the company supply those?"
This problem does not work at all. What is the justification for claiming that silence means the same as "No"? Silence could mean "Yes, but I am not telling." or "No, but I am not telling." or even something else.
@@urfinjuice1437 That's why Both Shilpa and Colin are said to be perfect logicians, and there is no indication that they are antagonistic towards each other. The basis of this problem is what is known as "Common Knowledge", meaning that you gain knowledge from knowing what others with different information know. If both Shilpa and Colins refuse to speak on the grounds of competition (which were not established) then logically they would never say anything since they gain no new information (and it would benefit their competitor) and thus cannot solve the puzzle.
@@williamschwarer2463 Thank you for your answer. It is not logical though. There is not reason to claim that Shilpa and Colin do not answer because they are antagonitic or competitive. They just do not answer. Noone knows the reason. As a result, noone except each one for themselves can know what they know. So "Common Knowledge" does not help. It is just a flaw in the puzzle. It is not properly thought through.
I love these purely logic problems that have nothing to do with math. They were my favourite problems during my logic courses in my undergrad because I more often than not got them correct unlike the higher level math problems haha.
I will say, I had no idea how to approach this at all, so I waited for you to start explaining the answer. But as soon as you started listing out the information given I knew what had happened. I need to remember that sometimes just listing the facts can help you solve a problem.
For those who are stumped ur going off based on assumptions of how the two answers should overlap. U can cross out answers based on the information the two ppl are given, e.g the lone blue square and yellow circle stick out and you’re going to continue to weed out the choices until you get to a point where the choices can match up for both ppl asked the question.
I followed backwards reasoning to attempt to get a solution to this. From the get-go, I knew that if either knew it was a unique shape, that the shape would be first, so that left three options. However, my brain got wrapped around one person knowing what the other doesn't and etc. so instead I had to make an educated guess. Since I knew that uniqueness would be a factor, I choose the least unique, the Green Triangle, since it neither had a unique shape nor a unique color, nor share such with a unique shape or color. This meant that they both had to arrive at the answer at the same time.
I can see why you made that your educated guess, but you could have known 100% from when both of them were unsure still and there was two greens and two triangles. That mean it had to be set green, and had to be a triangle. You shouldn't really need an educated guess but your thinking is amazing too.
@@unifiedmongoose7915 blue is unique color there when there is only 2 triangle and 1 green circle. their answer won't arrive at the same time if it was the unique color or shape when there is only 2 triangle and 1 green circle left
A lot of quiz/puzzle channels just pander for clicks. People not smart enough to realise that solving a mildly difficult puzzle (this was quite easy in my opinion) doesn’t make them a genius, get validation for their delusion of being incredibly smarter than everyone else
got it, but it was explained pretty ambiguously. i made the assumption that they knew the other was told the shape/color (otherwise it would have been impossible). but in the video you said they're told privately - should probably make clear that though they don't know *what* shape/color the other is told, they know *that* the other is told what shape/color it is.
It says the initial setup is common knowledge. So both know that they were told the shape and color privately. I missed that part of the video and waited for the shapes to move around or something.
@@olebergst.5828 Indeed, not only reading but perhaps hearing as well. I chose the square one because it hides a present the best and it's the largest one out of all the shapes. I didn't understand the problem either until he showed it in a list. I'm doomed am i? 😬
The fact they remained silent instead of saying "no" was really confusing to me - so much that I convinced myself that it couldn't be the green triangle, which is what you would conclude as if they had said "no." I thought there must be more to it since they remain silent. I guess overthinkers are going to overthink 🤣
@@steveaustin4013 ...mmm, maybe the "Oxford university" selects people prone to assume things in order to get a result when they're stuck in a logical loop... ok, I'm overthinking! :-)
Yeah, I figured it out within a few seconds of thinking about each stage. That's not always the case though, especially in the puzzles that do a good job of putting the forest in front of the trees and throwing you off the scent. Those are the ones that make me slap my head when I miss them.
They also need to answer simultaneously. It's not a big deal for the first time the host asks the question. But for the second time, the last person that would have said "no" instead will say "yes", because that last piece of enough is enough to solve the problem. Then the host wouldn't ask the question a third time.
Incorrect sir. The initial question was “do either of you know where the prize is?” not “do you know where the prize is?”. Neither of them know where the prize is, but they do not know if the other person knows or not. Therefore neither can answer “no” on the first question.
_"For this to actually be logically sound, they need to answer "No" to the first two questions, not simply remain silent."_ Negative. Q1: Colin, do you know where is the prize? Q2: Colin, do either you OR Shilpa know where is the prize? Colin must remain perfectly logical. To answer "no" to Q1 is logical. To answer "no" to Q2 is illogical, because Colin has no idea whether Shilpa knows.
@@seankennedy4284 Not sure what you are trying to say here. But the first time they are asked, they both are using only their own information. They can and should, therefore, both answer "No". Remaining silent gives no information. This is problematic because the second time they are asked, they must use information from the other's previous negative response to deduce further. If both had simply remained silent, then they would each have to assume that the other's silence can be construed as a negative. This act of assumption is very far indeed from remaining perfectly logical. If they both remain silent at all times, then it would be an infinite loop because no further information is entered into the system.
Much hangs on the interpretation of “Silence”. Silence is not that same as “No”, it is a refusal to answer a question and leaves the other parties without any further information. An unambiguous “No” actually gives the information required to solve the puzzle.
![FendiDa Rappa - Clock Dat ft. Shamar Marco [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3NBU8KHdxYY/mqdefault.jpg)
Alternate universe: Shilpa and Colin are NOT perfect logicians. The Host continues to ask "Do you know now?", continuing to get the same response of deafening silence for infinity.
😂😂
We call that universe “reality”
I managed to figure it out in my head in under a minute but if somebody was asking "do you know now?" I would literally not even be able to figure out the first elimination.
@@austinbentley4604 you would have to know the person you are with and know they think logically.
@@williammeek4078 hahaha imagine if only one of them was, third time : Yes! *Looks at the other who doesn't know*... Well nevermind...
It’s also necessary to let the viewer know that Shilpa knows that Colin knows the color and that Colin knows that Shilpa knows the shape.
This comment needs more likes.
That is the "the setup of the game is common knowledge" part.
That is part of the setup, which is stated to be common knowledge
literally one of the first things mentioned
Yes yes yes yes
I guessed red hexagon.
Same.
These shows always have their trick
Same
You will be contacted. Our agent will ask for directions on the street and show you a map with a red hexagon. You will reply "Three blocks west, and I recommend the fish chowder." Bring nothing, the training facility will supply all your needs.
Does “...the initial setup is common knowledge” mean that both Shilpa and Colin know that the other was told the value of the opposite characteristic of shape or color from what they themself were told? Or does the setup refer to the shapes and colors of the objects only? This is not explicitly mentioned and is crucial to the ability to solve the problem by Shilpa and Colin, and therefore to our ability to be sure whether the responses by them are given with certainty or not.
If the meaning of the quoted phrase does not mean this, the problem as presented is incomplete because it requires us to assume each person knew what characteristic-though not the value-the other was told or even whether their counterpart was told anything. All we know that they know is that they knew what they themself were told privately. There is no mention of anything with which either-much less both-of them could have deduced what, if any, information the other was told, so this would require each of them to make an assumption about what the other did or did not know. Therefore the problem would be unsolvable with certainty by either of them and the information we are given regarding their responses cannot be assumed to be correct and without uncertainty, therefore the problem is unsolvable with certainty by us.
So we can make an assumption and solve for the green triangle, or go with only the known information and conclude there is not enough information given to arrive at a solution with certainty. This is the complete solution to this problem as stated.
Sloppy statements in a setup for a problem of logic lead to problematic solutions.
Colin knew it was under the yellow circle from the beginning, but remained silent trying to confuse Shilpa. Such a smart*ss Colin is!
When you realize that the lack of knowledge is actually a piece of knowledge in itself.
This little tidbit here is not to be underestimated; as soon as I saw your comment before I had solved it, I knew I was looking at it wrong and was then able to figure it out pretty easily. Nice looking out.
Ridiculously underrated comment 👏🏻
Yess
Yes, elimination methods are always fun
That’s how military intelligence works, sweetheart.
Finally a problem i could solve on my own before watching Presh' answer. I'm so proud of myself rn
this one is kinda easy tho.
good job!
@@midfidelity7180 :(
@@midfidelity7180 c'mon atleast they tried ...
Well pack up you’re going to Oxford!
I know it's not hard at all but I felt so happy getting it so quick
Us bro us
Sem
Me too!
Me 2
@@Γιώργος-ε6τ πάμε ρε Γιώργο
2023 Computer Science A level students know what's up (it was a question in the exam)
didn't seem like a hard question at all. depending on how much time you got.
if you have all the time you need, a child can solve it. if you got 5 minutes most adults should be able to solve it.
Three logicians walked into a bar. The bartender asked, "Do y'all want beer?". None of them replied. When the bartender repeated the question, they said in unison, "Yes".
A beautiful simplification of the same riddle. Common knowledge and deduction.
I've heard this one before but phrased in the context of a joke
@@NevaehBeatezlooks like a joke to me
I tell the version where they’re asked “do any of you want beer?” and the first one says “I don’t know”, the second one says “I don’t know”, and then the third one says “no”. Sort of the reverse joke.
genius!!
Figuring this out beforehand feels so validating, i realise that i finally grew some braincells🥺
hahah same
Fr i dunno how but i figured it out before the explanation
wait someone actually understood this fkin thing?
It feels good at first but I'm conflicted. On one hand, this is presented as a difficult problem. On the other hand, I found it very easy, and I don't know if that means I'm really smart, or I've fallen for the kind of trick used by fake online IQ tests where they ask an easy question and praise you for it.
@@gilliann.9579 you did not have to go that hard on an online test for funsies😭😭😭😭
Having taken a Cambridge admissions test this week, I can confidently say they’d never be this easy.
Ok good, also good luck
@@JohnMarston1876 too late for that. F
@@seastilton7912 F 😐
WHAT
@Username Didn’t get an interview, the test is part of what decides if you get one
I love me some AqA computer science
Me, a 21 year old who’s going to graduate *NOT* from Oxford University: Yes, I’ll definitely keep this in mind for my interview.
Good Luck !
How did it went?
Army
😂 Right? Me also who doesn't have kids, but watches mommy channels
Literally me 😅 though i graduated July
So the moral of the story is:
- always ask mathematicians your question at least 3 times
Can you tell me some other channels where I can find these types of mathematical riddles 🥺
@@ThatAsianGuyExplains
ruclips.net/channel/UC6jM0RFkr4eSkzT5Gx0HOAw
"Who does #2 work for???" -- Austin Powers.
@@ThatAsianGuyExplains ruclips.net/user/MathsIsLife
Maybe this is the logic that Asian parents use to teach their kids math? 😂😂
Oxford's real life admissions question: "Would daddy be paying cash or credit card?"
💀
Truth
Amen!
That is clearly the more important question. Ha, ha.
All that matterzzz baybay!!
The real test is actually solving it with another person and a host asking you the questions. Recognizing the logical solution is the beginning, conveying that to someone else is what matters. Source: definitely didn't get into Oxford, but I'm still trying really hard.
i love how everyone says 'this is so easy!!' and here i am just like 👁👄👁?
same, I don’t understand the explanation lmao
People lie
@@Dark_Tesla I belirve alot of people just know rational thinking more than others, it's one of those chanels and it would attract similiar minds.
@@bonecag3 assuming these people know that the girl focuses on the shape, and the girl knows the guy focuses on the color. Then they just sort them and know what color and shape to elimimate from both color and shape.
@@222MovieMan people love to stroke their egos too. This is the internet, I’ve seen what people do for a like.
Neat, wasn't sure how the silence played a part but once I heard that it was a part of eliminating possibilities I got it
Same
the silent is used to decide what it cannot be.
Same, the more you know i guess
Always pay attention to detail.
Not mentioning the elimination steps is a fault of the test. IMO. Remaining silent to me means they were just refusing to reveal what they knew.
Yes! I managed to reason through it all on my own. That’s quite a satisfying feeling.
i solved it also and im certainly not overly smart. I did however assume (coz we were not told) that each knew the other had been given a different clue
Same here …solved on my own …yayy
@@ExplodingPiggy you good bro?
Me too....that feels good
@@ExplodingPiggy ironic
Plot twist: - it was the yellow circle but Colin is deaf.
That was really interesting. I've never been able to understand that sort of logic puzzle as my mind just goes blank. It was great hearing the explanation as it actually made sense and gives me hope that one day I'll actually be able to work one out.
I like to think of these kinds of puzzles as exercising a different brain ‘muscle’ than we’re used to using. If you think of it like that, it’s easy to understand that ‘mind going blank’ response. If you put me in front of a set of dumbbells, I would stand there like “uhhhhhh….” and probably just leave. I completely get it.
I totally believe in you!!!! 💜 Work those logic muscles and show yourself how awesome you are!!
@@TBadalov Seriously did you just say that because l don't understand logic puzzles l lack empathy? Go find a mirror bro.
@@sally8708 Thanks Sally. I shall replay your words of encouragement in my head from now on whenever l see a similar puzzle. It's not very objective, l know, but I normally consider myself quite intelligent. Lol. These sorts of puzzles have defeated and frustrated me all my life. I think that's why l enjoyed the explanation so much 'cos for the first time ever l could see some sort of logical process.
@@nikiTricoteuse Eh he's probably not wrong. It stands to reason that a person who is more likely to put themselves in the shoes of the people described in the problem (i.e. someone exercising empathy) is more likely to solve the problem.
@@DiogenesNephew, yep but the defense mechanism will not allow to accept the truth and think reasonably. Some problems in life are solved naturally when got the right attitude
Reminds me of a joke:
Three logicians walk into a bar. The barman says "would you all like a drink?", The first logician says "I don't know", the second says "I don't know", and the third says "yes".
please explain 😭
@@syupdengixx The first logician wants a drink, because if they didn't they would already know that not all of them wanted a drink. However, they can't be sure that the logicians after them also want a drink.
The second logician wants a drink, because if they didn't they would already know that not all of them wanted a drink. However, they can't be sure that the logician next in line also wants a drink.
The third logician knows that neither of the two before them has declined a drink, and knows that they themselves also wants a drink, so therefore all three must want a drink.
As someone who is currently studying for the LSAT, this joke both makes me laugh and bothers me 😂
@@thecookieeater oh ok!! thank you so much for taking your time to explain it
I don’t know!
me: "Damn I found the right answer"
me: "Mom I'm going to Oxford!"
also me: *keeps pulling a door which says push
😆
😁😁😁
?
@@sorenstamify
What's confusing you?
I, too, attended Midvale School for the Gifted.
You: should delete the first two sentences to make your comment true.
I actually got stumped on a simple assumption; silence could mean anything.
Honestly, it's a gap in how this this puzzle is written. I assumed it meant "No", but like you said, silence could mean they're still thinking or something, and probably throws a lot of people off.
This was a simple one, but really fun! It almost sounds like those ones in the Professor Layton series
I heavily recommend anyone who enjoys these videos to get those games - they're quality
Can someone tell me some other channels where I can find these types of mathematical riddles 🥺
I LOVE THOSE GAMES.
Whoa, I solved it while the question was narrated. Really like this type of puzzles
@@ThatAsianGuyExplains Look up TED-Ed Riddles :)
I get the logic.. But the yellow circle was still my favorite, and I feel it should have gotten the prize
Exactly.
yellow curcle was robbed ;(
Green triangle made me feel offended therefore i insist that it is the wrong answer
We'll give you a participation trophy.
Yellow circle was the red herring.
oxford interviewers: **ask this question**
me: **walks out of the room** frick I'm going to community college
I went to community college and having gotten the answer right I now want to apply to transfer to Oxford.
+Looks at interviewer+: _"Dude, I'm going to law school, we deal with firm tangible evidence that we must explain to people who in some instances can't read or write."_ 🙄
The fallacy of this contrived scenario is that silence is neither a denial nor a confirmation. It is a non-response. The presumption that silence has a consistent and shared meaning is outside of the bounds of logic. It is more of a canard than a puzzle.
Well done, I agree, most of the commentors to this post are idiots!
I'm an accountant, so this was easy for me.
MY 'EASY' ANSWER WAS: _"I don't have a freakin CLUE which object the prize is under... but _*_let's talk about the tax implications on the value of whatever the prize is, and I can tell you about the special pricing we're having for our tax prep services."_*
You spend way too much time in the office lol.
Lol
Haha ROFL!!
666 likes
I didn't know a green triangle was taxable.
I went into this riddle thinking that Shilpa and Collin didnt know what the other knew. I had too rewatch this vid to read “The initial setup is common knowledge”
I missed what that meant at first 🤦♀️
Or that "initial setup" includes the questions each was asked, which is more doubtful when they are 'asked quietly'. Janky - trying to hide the premise.
The initial setup is the 5 colored shapes you see on screen and the fact that one knows color while the other knows shape. Each "silence" is a "no", eliminating two places it could be under for both people. Like, say it were yellow, then one who knows what color would've immediately said yes the first time, and the only single color on the board was yellow. Since they both stayed silent, it was eliminated as a possibility. Same goes for the square being a one of a kind shape.
But since the circle shape object can easily fit under the square this is not a logical puzzle..
@@mariolanz4187 ...what does that have to do with anything? The puzzle'w answer is contingent on shape, color, and the same question being asked thrice, not what shape can be hidden under another. The shapes and colors are just the setup, the logic portion is in the question.
same, i thought the initial setup meant the order he set them uo
It was much easier for me to mentally cross out which choices were impossible, rather than make a list of all possible choices.
Same! Very logical and easy.
figuring out is always easier and less time consuming than explaining the process to a mass of people.
@@mohamadrezahesan881 sure, but they explained a slightly different process
You wouldn't know the "impossible" choices without the whole information ;) something to tink on
@@MyNameJeff00 that’s not true at all. I paused the video and literally went “okay square is impossible, yellow is impossible” etc. until I got the answer
1. their initial silence confirms it is not the yellow circle or the blue square as these two objects are unique to the rest and if either of them were told square or yellow they would instantly know it is either or.
2.their silence on the second question confirms that Colin has not been told blue as the triangle is the only blue shape left and Shilpa has not been told circle as their is only one circle left.
3. this leaves the green triangle as the answer :)
i didnt actually watch the video this is just my method of solving it so i dont know if it is similar to Presh's soultion.
I reached the same conclusion with the same reasoning.
Love this kind of pure logical reasoning.
This way too easy though for a real admissions test though
Logical(?) reasoning???? totally assinine!!!
I'd give you a like, but I don't want to disturb the count.
@@jimsvideos7201 Lol. It's gone up now, though, so you can if you want. 👍
@@michaelmcgregor7374 "asinine", and this problem was broken down in much the same way a computer program would need to be written to solve it, so yes, "logical".
getting this in my head is one of the proudest achievements in my life
Same lol
I came to the correct answer but not the same way, after the first silence I knew it couldn't be the square or yellow but I didn't remove them, then I ask what other colors would give more options my figuring blue triangle and the green circle, being that triangle & blue were already represented and circle & green were already represented then actually removed them from contemplation. This left me with three unique shapes w unique colors two which I were TOO unique to be correct as color(yellow) and shape(square), leaving me with the only option of Green Triangle. Hope this was interesting and not a total waste of your time 🙂.
@@indebtfolife same
It's not hard
Yea, is this really an oxford admission puzzle? It seemed surprisingly easy. :/
This test becomes a lot easier when you realize the two of them are gathering information from the other's responses😅
That’s the whole point of including the fact that they were silent.
jus wait a minute, how does shilpa knows, that which one is yellow, she hadn't been told the colors? (after the 2nd question)
@@subhajit1128 Colin knows the color. Shilpa can deduce that the color is not yellow from Colin's silence during the first instance of "Do you know," because if Colin WAS told yellow he'd immediately have an answer.
@@subhajit1128 Exactly! The initial conditions are totally confusing. I got it that one only knows the shapes and the other one - only colors. But no, they know both. It's only the shape or the color of "the object" what was told privately. And this "object" is actually "the prize". I don't know, maybe it's me not being native English speaker, but from my point the conditions are formulated ridiculously unclear.
@@valentinap2432 Shilpa is told the shape, Conor is told the color, and they deduce information about what the other person was told based on their respective responses to a third party asking "Do you know where the thing is?"
I do not equate silence to "I don't know." I initially read silence as "I know, but don't want to give the answer away," which cost me a few moments before I managed to solve the puzzle.
Close, but no cigar. Silence means neither yes or no in this context.
Happy to say I did figure it out, and it does definitely take a certain kind of thinking. The kind that actually feels good and like a small revelation when you finally know for sure. Nice puzzle!
Couldn’t relate more. Definitely feels like a superpower and super fun to train your brain!
Dude I did it too! Rather rapidly I might add. But I've done similar withheld info logic puzzles before
Did it relatively easily, 5 minutes. Just had to think of "what do they figure out from each other every time?". Pretty darn cool puzzle.
I thought it was extremely easy, wasn't it?
@4Runner telling someone what they thought is a lie doesn't make logical sense. It was easy for him, he is asking others if it was easy. That is a subjective statement, there is no possibility for it to be a lie for that singular person because it is based on his/her point of view.
This would have made more sense to me, if instead of remaining silent after the first two rounds they said "not yet". Because I didn't interpret the silence as a no.
Silence is complicity... to admitting that Oxford is bollocks.
I assumed the silence was just a third state in a three state situation Yes/No/I don't know.
@@thelazy0ne but in the situation “no” and “I don’t know” are the same right?
@@sean-mo9gf No, they are not, assuming you would give one answer and lock that in.
Imagine one of them WOULD'VE known first round (i. e. Colin was told "yellow" or Shilpa was told "square").
Shilpa cannot answer "no" until she knows Colin's answer. Because if Colin's answer is "Yes", then she can deduce that color alone can identify the object, so she knows it's the yellow circle as well. So her definitive answer depends on Colin's answer - if it is "yes", then her answer is "yes" as well. If his answer is "no", then her answer is "no" as well.
Colin has the same problem - he doesn't know either what answer to lock in for this round, until he knows if Shilpa says Yes or No.
So both their answers are dependent on the other person to answer first. This is a deadlock, and both cannot answer first.
This of course only makes sense if you can only say "yes" or "no", and your first answer is also immediately considered your final answer for this round and has to be correct to win the prize.
i thought they were silent because they didn't want to reveal the answer to the other person
I love solving these kinds of logic puzzles. And am a little bit proud of myself for pausing, thinking it through, and getting it right.
Try thinking with portals:)
Same. Once you get it you realize it's quite simple and it follows the same mechanic three times. It was fun to imagine Shilpa and Colin intensely staring at each other while making deductions lol
Fr i feel so smart as someone who’s actually still in middle school but still could solve a freakin “oxford puzzle” like bish what does this meann
@@youssefrahou7990 I know exactly what you mean xD
@@youssefrahou7990 means you are listening in school keep up the good work and become somebody someday or do whatever you want
I'm glad that I had time to study this over and over. I am surprised at how satisfying it feels, but I also realize that I could not have figured it out on my own (i.e. without the video's help). That sort of frustrates me, but it is what it is.
This is how I always win at Clue. I make a huge grid and every single guess someone else makes I record and work backwards!!
The trick to wining at clue is to ask yes or no questions with OR conditions -- does the person have glasses OR is bald? If no, you can eliminate more. If yes, you can eliminate more.
@@buffordbutters6284 that's not clue that's guess who. . .
Ive tried this but I always get beat out by someone willing to make wild guesses rather than waiting till they've actually solved the logic puzzle
@@averywallace6677 Oh yeah, brain fart! 🤣
I ask cluedo questions with cards I have just to mess with others trying to glean information from my questions.
You should really clarify that they both are told what information the other has. Otherwise, to solve this you need to make the assumption that Shilpa has been informed that Colin knows the shape, and that Colin has been informed that Shilpa knows the colour (you state that they have been privately told, which could easily mean that they haven't been told what the other knows)
It says at the beginning that the initial setup is common knowledge.
@@Headless_Hessian Yes, I agree with your comment and the first comment in this thread.
'Common knowledge' was super vague to me in this context.
@@Headless_Hessian initial setup is the whole setup in this instance, there is no additional setup beyond the initial setup... in fact it was redundant to refer to the setup as the initial setup. "And the setup is common knowledge." is how they should've said it.
It was pretty said pretty clearly, but ig the term initial setup did leave room for confusion.
@@5eater551 That's also ambiguous: intitial setup could mean the colors and shapes available
Not gonna lie, when it was said that “the initial setup is common knowledge,” that kinda just flew over my head. Had I known that this actually meant that Shilpa was told that Colin knew the color, and Colin was told that Shilpa knew the shape, I probably would’ve been able to deduce the answer better. It wasn’t until I watched through the second step of the solution that I realized they both knew that they had a different piece of information. This would’ve made solving it so much easier.
I also misunderstood that phrase. I thought it was meant to clarify that common knowledge dictates the names of the shapes and colors in the puzzle. I just assumed, they have to know about each other's knowledge for the puzzle to make sense :D
Haha I thought he meant that Shilpa only knew the shapes and Colin only knew the colors.
Same XD
I thought he meant the initial set-up of the question is common knowledge.
@@BenBike
Same. In my head. How can they know where the prize is if the other only knows the color but not the shape while the other person know the shape but not the color. There are 2 pairs if identical colors and 1 unique color. Same with the shape, 2 identical pairs of shapes and 1 unique shape.
I went through the entire process in my head in about 10 seconds, while having tea and a Choco Pie, without even realising the logic of what I was doing. It was just: "OK, it clearly can't be these two". I only had to think about it at the last step, when the two triangles and a circle were left. And even then I only did it after arriving at the obviously correct answer during the initial 10 seconds, just to double-check myself and ask: "But why?". Funny thing is, even after double-checking myself I still couldn't lay out the entire logical chain. That's heuristical thinking/Kahneman's System 1 for you.
Guess there is a relevance for us to know what you were slurping and chomping.
@@oddities-whatnot The relevance is that System 1 is highly efficient and works in the background, so that you can be slurping tea and chomping on a Choco Pie while solving these kinds of problems, whereas you can't do that with System 2, because it's highly inefficient. But you'll have to use that system if you're looking for the logical chain answer. Or you could use a computer, which was made to be a much better System 2 than us humans ^_^
One of the few problems that I actually managed to solve on my own wow
Lol same
Me too
Same here
Me too. So proud
Easy pisy
Can't wait to get my Oxford admission in the mail because I did this easy puzzle. I knew that my Mom doing my homework throughout high-school would make me very smart!
i am dead 💀
Lol 😂
Haha same
It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be
@@ophalox8406 That’s what she said!
I am so bad at these but I actually got this one. I needed that boost today.
Was your process the same as that in the video? I got it too but I my reasoning was completely different. More of a educated guess than reasoning lol
@@joshuazatarain7967 I think yes, for the most part. My thought process was sort of "Well, I don't know what it is, so is there anything that it can't be?" and "okay, then what's the significance of it being 3 times?"
Wow. I just finished watching TED Ed riddles, and this is child's play. I got it before he even finished reading the question. At the end of the second clue, it was obviously under the green triangle. I know, without watching the rest of the video or finding the answer in any other way, because when neither say anything in the first round, you can eliminate the blue square and the yellow circle. Then, when no one says anything, you can eliminate the blue triangle and green circle. That leaves you with just the green triangle.
Struggled for ten minutes on this one but I'm so happy I managed to solve it!
Glad I wasn’t the only one
Exalted, you guys could join me
OMG....you have 15 lakhs subscribes but still don't have verification tick 🤔❓❓
Ayy i solved this in no time! Thanks for the ego boost. I’m gonna watch another video to get gravity working as normal again
Some seconds
I am still trying to understand the question. That explains why I was too good for school.
I learned two things about myself. According to this puzzle I do not immediately think logically and I could not do this in my head but would require pen and paper. Thanks for this. This was fun. You may have set me on a road to understand more.
There are 2 ways to solve this puzzle.
One is by deduction, which is probably explained (but i didnt look at that to be honest):
None of what is said is relevant, from the very first question "do either of you know.."
You have all you need to know before that starts.
1 knows color, 1 knows shape. And both know that each has gotten that information.
There is only 1 yellow and there is only 1 square. Both need to be discarded and both people would know that they should be discarded, bc none of them can have been given the correct answer. That would destroy the logic puzzle, which would be illogical. So thats not valid.
Then they would both be left with green triangle, blue triangle and green circle.
Same thing again. It cant be blue, bc there is only 1 blue. It cant be circle, bc there is only one circle. So its green triangle. Which they both would know.
The other is by understanding the puzzle (ill explain) and then quickly going over it visually, excluding. This method is faster, but requires training in understanding the problem given and where the answer must be.
So, it requires you to listen carefully to what information is given. at start stage they say 'common knowledge', 5 objects, with 3 variations in color and 3 variations in shape. Both get ONE exclusion criterium.
What you should quickly understand from that is that the prize will be under the one that has most common traits, colorwise, and shapewise. That means you can exclude all outlyers!
yellow - gone
square - gone
left is green circle, gren triangle and blue triangle
circle - gone
blue - gone
Green triangle left.
Above 6 lines are about 1 second or less of looking at it and discarding. bc you eliminate all outlyers without having to think about it.
You can train this sort of logic and understanding very well and will get better and faster at it all the time. Its fun ;]
@@StofStuiver thanks. This is keeper information. I appreciate your time. And it was fun anyway.
@@r.j.powers381 You are welcome sir ;]
This is something that one has to really concentrate and think about the two people and what they were told and their responses! It's great.
Not really its just process off elimination its not really hard
This one is fairly intuitive. When they're both silent after the first question. we know it's not yellow or a square. and when they're both silent after the second question, we know that another iteration is required. and since the green triangle is 2 iterations from both the yellow object and the square object then that must be the answer
Yes
@@odar9729 yeh pretty straight forward...
ikr can i go to oxford now or what
Yep! That’s exactly what I thought as well.
Yeah.. the video JUST TOLD YOU that. Why are you just repeating the logic?
"They say if you can solve this in your head, you are a genius ;)"
Really? It wasn't that hard and I can assure you I'm not a genius.
FR! The explanation was 10x harder to understand than figuring out where the prize was. 🤣
Whatever you say, genius 😂
@@TheRealSimeon I know my mental limits. One big limit for me is my working memory, I can't hold enough information in my head. Also I don't have the greatest IQ, it's around average. IQ tests actually are correct, even if people don't want to admit it. You notice the step where you can't process the pattern anymore.
@@grafdp I think cognitive ability lies on a broad spectrum
@@grafdp "even if people don't want to admit it" reminds me those who can say "God is everything and here,
The blue □ and the yellow ◯ are unique in shape or color. So they are eliminated in the first round. Then the blue △ and the green ◯ become unique and eliminated in the 2nd round. Now, only the green △ is left.
Why though? We cant assume what silence means. Maybe one knew what it was and didnt say. And while we only knew they were silent, we dont know if they used non verbal communication either.
Riddle relies on making assumptions.
@@phalcon23 It was said they use perfect logical reasoning. So they're basically like "computer code". They are silent because they both knew the other won't have the solution yet. That's part of the puzzle. And when they knew, they told so, as that's what they have to due to the perfect logical reasoning.
Also, non verbal communication is communication too.
@@gargaduk well as someone who writes computer code, that is not perfectly logical. If you ask a yes or no question, you expect to get an answer back, never silence.
@@phalcon23 Not really. The question is "Do either of you know where the prize is". Logically, they don't know what the *other* one knows. So they can't say either yes or no. Therefore, silence.
@@gargaduk well they cant lie, so if one person knows it, they would say yes, and the other one could also then say yes as well.
you could also add 3rd opttion "unknonwn, or not sure"
logic doesn't have to be binary.
I am surprised they would ask such an easy puzzle at Oxford, I expected something way more complex and/or difficult
keep in mind this is only one "interview question" as stated by the channel, and you don't need to be a genius to get into Oxford anyway.
😔
Always remember sometimes we can't slove easy question because of our overthinking .🙃🙂
Questions are always easier when it's not asked under pressure.
Saem
"What a fun puzzle"
Me after 56 hours of brain-wracking thinking time :
Yeah. Very Fun
This is such a simple problem as long as you understand what it’s asking of you. I misunderstood the setup, thinking that Colin only knew the colors and shilpa only knew the shapes, but they in fact both knew the colors and shapes of all five, but each was told info on what the prize was.
Yeah same thing was for me also.
I made the same translation mistake 😂
I think you guys misunderstand the problem. The problem isn't simple at all. Colin did only know the correct color and Shilpa only knew the correct shape. It doesn't make sense to say that Colin knew the colors of all objects. I can also tell you that it's extremely hard to do this in your head for anyone because of how our brain works. Our brain can only handle 3-4 short-term facts at once. And, given that there are so many different pieces of information here, it's really hard to figure this problem out instantaneously. You'll need at least several minutes to think it over and over again until the short-term details become strengthened into long-term memory.
@pearlwhite21 The object is indeed under one of the weird containers. (Or, you can think of it like this.)
@@morninglift1253 no, they both know the shape and color of all of the objects, one just knows the color of the prize while the other knows the shape. It’s impossible to solve otherwise, since neither person would be able to rule anything out
I was able to get this puzzle correct on the first try; however, this puzzle makes the assumption that Shilpa was told that they told Colin color, and Colin was told that they told Shilpa shape. If one didn't know what the other was told, this puzzle would not be solvable.
The video says “Shilpa knows the shape” and “Colin knows the color”, then says “the initial setup is common knowledge.”
So yes, it would not work if they didn’t know that-but the puzzle states at the outset that they did.
@@12mountain 0:16
They were both privately told, so there would be no way one would know that the other was told, and the puzzle states that.
@@celts3760 The wording is vague, but Bart is correct: it’s common knowledge that Shilpa knows the shape and Colin knows the color. The information that was communicated privately is *exactly which* shape Shilpa was told and *exactly which* color Colin was told.
@@notanetdeck5264 "Shilpa and Colin are mathematicians who use perfect logical reasoning, and the initial setup is common knowledge."
For a "given" to be valid in perfect logical reasoning, it has has to be explicit and clear; not some vague implicit assumption. No where in the video do they explicitly state that Colin knows that Shilpa was told shape and Shilpa knows that Colin was told color. The initial setup could be nothing more than them knowing the shapes and colors used. That alone is not enough for people who use "perfect logical reasoning" to know that the other was told.
If you can, provide a time stamp where it is explicitly stated that one knows that the other was told, but I couldn't find one!
@@notanetdeck5264 oh, i thought initial setup meant the setup of the shapes
Heh, this was the second ever question on your channel that I was intuitively able to solve without pausing
Thanks for the cool problem
Got it, took about 3 mins.
If I'm genuinely a genius then humanity is setting the bar pretty freaikin' low..
maybe you are a logical genius...trying be a genius in the other 7 intelligence departments as well
Alternate universe : Shilpa and Colin are so genius that they know how to communicate through sign language.
Ha,ha, ha!
Thanks for the first comment
...or they blinked via morse code to communicate
....or use telepathy.
Good one!
With 69.5 Sun circuits... I can easily say, that those who've came out of Oxford know only what they are told. And MYD, had proven it by the use of those two words ''Tell & Told'' to total ad nausea.
''I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run. Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned. In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.'' ~ Sam Adams
The puzzle itself was pretty simple, but the "Do you know now" control part of it was rather ambiguous. If they were both equally fast at processing the logic, that part would be redundant. If they were not, there would be no way for them to know if the other's silence is an indication of choice or simply the fact that they didn't finish the "stage" yet, which is what the explanation and the question itself assumes.
Maybe if the puzzle added something like "They were both given 10 seconds before I ask for an answer... and so on" would make it more clear.
I hope they're not seriously using this to filter out applicants.
It was implied. Could have been explicit, though!
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe Various implications would make it ambiguous
Yeh, unnecessarily confusing setup for sure.
I mean instead of staying silent they could just have responded "no" which indicates they're finished accessing and have decided that they don't know. The problem is that the first to answer gives the second more information so instead, they remain silent and we're asked to assume if they needed more time they would have said so lol
I was not even thinking about that part and I still solved it.
I think is moré like a guide on how many discard steps there was(???
Is this click/subscribe bait? -__-
Why is it so easy? To make people feel good about themselves and give you free ad money?
RUclips has fallen.
You forgot to mention the fact that Shilpa and Colin can both hear/see each other, that is a HUGE determining factor when they base their next answer off of the others response.
and that they both know that Shilpa knows the shape and Colin the color.
Exactly. I was figuring out it couldn't be the yellow cirlcle or the square, otherwise on the first try either of them would have found the object.
But I assumed they were figuring out the problem together by talking.
How else is this supposed to work? Magic? Obviously they have to be able to observe each others reactions, otherwise the "Yes" at the third stage wouldn't make any sense.
Thanks for admitting that you got it wrong
Exactly! I thought they were both told privately. Knowing that it's pretty simple.
I am absolutely not a genius but still solved it in my head immediately. It's not difficult logic to follow at all
Now assume that they don't know each other's answers.
To Oxford you go!
Lies
I didn't pause the video to try to solve it, but after I watched the video I don't think I would've got it anyways. But I need to watch more videosof this guy so I can learn this kind of rational thinking! :)
Thats how idiots like Imran Khan went to Oxford and Sonia Gandhi & Rajiv Gandhi went to Cambridge.
I LOVE how this work. It seems so impossible at a glance, but is fun and fairly simple to work through once you realize the process of elimination.
I got it but I am smart enough to know I would flunk out of Oxford the first semester, ... Unless I was a business major.
I mean...if he's asking them both at the same time, this becomes ten times easier. "Do you know now?"
Shilpa: "Well, what color is it?"
Collin: " Green. What shape?"
S: "Triangle."
Both: "Yeah, we know."
Solved
The puzzle never specified that the participants couldn't ask each other for further information XD
Ha ! Why specify when it is common knowledge. How often do you see two mathematicians talk to each other ?
@Rebecca They talk ciphers ! And one doesn't get the other.
The point of the puzzle is that you have to figure it out based on their two "silent" responses and one final "yes" response. So it makes sense.
@@Waterbug1591 Hence Proved "Silence is Golden"
I'm so amazed at both Shilpa and Colin who, in total silence, managed to use a process of deduction without communicating with one another. I bow to them both.
Exactly!!!!
The process of elimination. It's not that hard. based on the reaction of the other person it becomes easier and easier to eliminate
well think of it like this, they are told that each other has another piece of information. which means they can start ruling out the likelihood that the other person would have been given a clue that was basically a direct answer. So then start by eliminating what is not a direct answer. i.e. yellow and square. this leaves green triangle as the only thing remaining with a pair for both color and shape.
But they never said they did NOT know the answer. They chose not to answer either way.
"process of deduction without communicating with one another."
Oh, but they DID communicate!
I can’t tell you how proud of myself I am right now for getting this right 😂
that makes two of us. although I figured it out back at stage 2 :-P
Unfortunately you are *not* getting this right.
You ASSUME a lot of things, the video makes the same mistake though.
E.g. you assume:
- Both persons see/hear each others reactions - it is not said they can do
- both persons are not allowed to lie - it is not said they can't do
and most important:
- "silence" is the same as saying "no" - it is not said it is, and in REAL LIFE it usually isn't!
(there are even more, these 3 only to illustrate how sloppy the test actually is)
Only with this additional assumptions your solution (and of course the one in the video) is correct.
@@Slazlo-Brovnik not necessarily. Yes, although not said directly you have to go by percentage and psychological theory. EX: chances are people (group) would choose a particular color vs a random color. Also assuming on that concept, if you take a closer look the percentile of green and triangle to come up is alot higher. Which can be seen after second assumption. Although you do make some good points in your logic.
You should try joining Oxford👍
@@TheBlackWOLFofDeath1 Basically you are adding information based on (valid) assumptions - not information which is in the test … thus OUTSIDE Information. That is something you usually do not do in mathematics and logic.
But let's assume you are right. Then e.g. the fact remains, that most people would probably just answer the question with "no" instead of being silent it they do not know.
So IF we permit outside information such as psychological theory, then the test still does not work.
So either we ONLY take the information which is given in the wording of the test - then it does not work, as there are some important things we ASSUME but do not know (e.g. do they need to answer correctly?).
OR we accept that assumptions are okay to aid the phrasing of the test, but then an assumption most people would do ist that silence is something different from answering with no ... and the test again does not work.
Deadlock.
The test just does not work as presented in the Video.
Here is the real Oxford Entry Exam
How many alums are in your family?
If more than 2, go to step 2.
Does at least one of them have a bank account in excess of 10 million pounds?
If yes, congrats and welcome to Oxford!
I graduated Oxford last May. I landed my first post-graduate job interview two weeks later.
Things seemed to go well and at the end of the interview I asked, "Do I supply my own green, blue and yellow geometric shapes...or does the company supply those?"
(silence)
@@BixbyConsequence "Excuse me. Sir!" (raises hand as the man walks out of the room)
@@BixbyConsequence 😂😂😂😂😂this needs more attention... I'm wheezing
@@BixbyConsequence do you know now?
Yes!!!
This proves a point, it's important to have an eye on not only your own move but also on the move of the competitors.
They are not competitors, your point is not valid.
This problem does not work at all. What is the justification for claiming that silence means the same as "No"? Silence could mean "Yes, but I am not telling." or "No, but I am not telling." or even something else.
That's what Game Theory is
@@urfinjuice1437 That's why Both Shilpa and Colin are said to be perfect logicians, and there is no indication that they are antagonistic towards each other. The basis of this problem is what is known as "Common Knowledge", meaning that you gain knowledge from knowing what others with different information know. If both Shilpa and Colins refuse to speak on the grounds of competition (which were not established) then logically they would never say anything since they gain no new information (and it would benefit their competitor) and thus cannot solve the puzzle.
@@williamschwarer2463 Thank you for your answer. It is not logical though. There is not reason to claim that Shilpa and Colin do not answer because they are antagonitic or competitive. They just do not answer. Noone knows the reason. As a result, noone except each one for themselves can know what they know. So "Common Knowledge" does not help. It is just a flaw in the puzzle. It is not properly thought through.
Presh: "Pause to give the puzzle a try."
Me: Try what? With what information? Is it scratch and sniff?
Agreed, it assumes too much. It would have been fun if it wasn't made for such a specific context.
Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg , Clinton, Trump, Bush, SnoopDogg all didn't go to Oxford :D
I love these purely logic problems that have nothing to do with math. They were my favourite problems during my logic courses in my undergrad because I more often than not got them correct unlike the higher level math problems haha.
What's your definition of "math"?
@@davidknipe4113 axb73828/628≈*]+]
I will say, I had no idea how to approach this at all, so I waited for you to start explaining the answer. But as soon as you started listing out the information given I knew what had happened. I need to remember that sometimes just listing the facts can help you solve a problem.
For those who are stumped ur going off based on assumptions of how the two answers should overlap. U can cross out answers based on the information the two ppl are given, e.g the lone blue square and yellow circle stick out and you’re going to continue to weed out the choices until you get to a point where the choices can match up for both ppl asked the question.
It was common knowledge between both of them so it wasn't really an assumption
The feeling of getting it right is unmatched
Truly
Sorry to be a party pooper but the puzzle is in fact unsolvable!
I followed backwards reasoning to attempt to get a solution to this. From the get-go, I knew that if either knew it was a unique shape, that the shape would be first, so that left three options. However, my brain got wrapped around one person knowing what the other doesn't and etc. so instead I had to make an educated guess. Since I knew that uniqueness would be a factor, I choose the least unique, the Green Triangle, since it neither had a unique shape nor a unique color, nor share such with a unique shape or color. This meant that they both had to arrive at the answer at the same time.
Yeah. Thats what i did too.
that’s what i did
I can see why you made that your educated guess, but you could have known 100% from when both of them were unsure still and there was two greens and two triangles. That mean it had to be set green, and had to be a triangle. You shouldn't really need an educated guess but your thinking is amazing too.
I dont get it? wouldn't that mean it couldve been blue triangle aswell?
@@unifiedmongoose7915 blue is unique color there when there is only 2 triangle and 1 green circle. their answer won't arrive at the same time if it was the unique color or shape when there is only 2 triangle and 1 green circle left
This was surprisingly really easy, figured it out in 10 seconds or so, or maybe I just got extremely lucky with my logical path here
You’re a wizard harry
Where did you lose the first 9 seconds on?
Yeah it was fairly easy to assume it was the one which wasn't unique or unique-adjacent
Yes, i mean i expected something much harder
I guess Oxford has pretty low standards.
Sick of this guys lies. "Solve this puzzle to get into Oxford" He makes untrue titles up all the time!
The fact that I solved it in my head proves that this puzzle does not determine if one is a genius.
Exactly ;)
Everyone here must be a genius or I’m just a retard
@@prod.steezey883 lmao
I got it wrong 😑 and I have an iq of 139
@@CrAzZyTheCodingBoss then i don't think you have an iq of 139 buddy
I was so confused what the silence part decided. I would have never guessed that it was a part of eliminating the objects.
No worries, I’m not a brainiac either 🤣
LOL SAME
“If you can solve this in your head you’re a genius” yeah right, I’m not a genius 😂
So you didn't solve it.
@@themacocko6311 but I did solve it in my head and I’m smart maybe slightly above average iq but nowhere near genius
@@that1panther105 same
A lot of quiz/puzzle channels just pander for clicks. People not smart enough to realise that solving a mildly difficult puzzle (this was quite easy in my opinion) doesn’t make them a genius, get validation for their delusion of being incredibly smarter than everyone else
some of the smartest people always think they arent smart
Such an easy problem for an Oxford interview...? Took me 30s to solve it...
Legends say that the host is still asking"do you know now"😂😂
"Solve this logic puzzle to get into Oxford"
me after solving this, in front of the Oxford Universtiy:
*LET ME IIIIIN*
got it, but it was explained pretty ambiguously. i made the assumption that they knew the other was told the shape/color (otherwise it would have been impossible). but in the video you said they're told privately - should probably make clear that though they don't know *what* shape/color the other is told, they know *that* the other is told what shape/color it is.
It says the initial setup is common knowledge. So both know that they were told the shape and color privately. I missed that part of the video and waited for the shapes to move around or something.
@@dizzydial8081 Tbh after reading some comments I suspect that reading comprehension was the actual task, not pure mathematical logical deduction.
@@dizzydial8081 ah that makes sense. i interpreted that as the arrangements of the shapes and thought it was just included to throw people off.
which is why we have math symbols. to avoid this unfairAMBIGUITY. which is why purely english word problems are inherently unfair.
@@olebergst.5828 Indeed, not only reading but perhaps hearing as well. I chose the square one because it hides a present the best and it's the largest one out of all the shapes. I didn't understand the problem either until he showed it in a list. I'm doomed am i? 😬
Nice riddle, but I highly doubt this is what getting into Harvard is based on.
The fact they remained silent instead of saying "no" was really confusing to me - so much that I convinced myself that it couldn't be the green triangle, which is what you would conclude as if they had said "no." I thought there must be more to it since they remain silent. I guess overthinkers are going to overthink 🤣
Indeed, that's the only trick part, to interpret the silence as "no".
I agree that it would have been easier if it said "no." In retrospect, I could have taken it that way since they eventually said yes.
It’s not just a trick part, it’s a piece of logic that’s left out of this logic game. Silence does not equal “no.”
@@steveaustin4013 agree
@@steveaustin4013 ...mmm, maybe the "Oxford university" selects people prone to assume things in order to get a result when they're stuck in a logical loop... ok, I'm overthinking! :-)
This was genuinely one of the only ones I got very easily. It’s an obvious question if you think from both perspectives of Shilpa and Colin
Yeah, I figured it out within a few seconds of thinking about each stage. That's not always the case though, especially in the puzzles that do a good job of putting the forest in front of the trees and throwing you off the scent. Those are the ones that make me slap my head when I miss them.
Yea. I'm ashamed it took me two tries. 😅 It took a while to figure out how to figure it out 😭
@@sophiliamajestign9303 wdym i couldn't solve it at the first place, i am fully ashamed of myself.
I’m pleased that I got it correct! This was a fun puzzle.
I guess I could have gotten into Oxford.
As someone who isn't very good with riddles, but loves logic, I'm super excited that I have figured this out
Nini Um Pequeno Gamer
After having it explained to you?
@@quabledistocficklepo3597 do you even know what "figure it out" means, or are you gonna need it explained to you ^^?
Took me about 15 minutes to figure it out myself (and after having a couple of drinks).
Yep, anything involving math problems makes my eyes glaze over and my nose bleed but this one was insta-quick to solve.
@@vivisimonvi i thought there was gonna be a trick or something, it took me even more lol
Simple yet fun puzzle, one of the few I could solve. Awesome
Me too
For this to actually be logically sound, they need to answer "No" to the first two questions, not simply remain silent.
They also need to answer simultaneously. It's not a big deal for the first time the host asks the question. But for the second time, the last person that would have said "no" instead will say "yes", because that last piece of enough is enough to solve the problem. Then the host wouldn't ask the question a third time.
Exactly that's what threw me off, is it logical to assume their silence is a negative answer? I would say no. Badly worded problem.
Incorrect sir. The initial question was “do either of you know where the prize is?” not “do you know where the prize is?”. Neither of them know where the prize is, but they do not know if the other person knows or not. Therefore neither can answer “no” on the first question.
_"For this to actually be logically sound, they need to answer "No" to the first two questions, not simply remain silent."_
Negative.
Q1: Colin, do you know where is the prize?
Q2: Colin, do either you OR Shilpa know where is the prize?
Colin must remain perfectly logical.
To answer "no" to Q1 is logical.
To answer "no" to Q2 is illogical, because Colin has no idea whether Shilpa knows.
@@seankennedy4284 Not sure what you are trying to say here. But the first time they are asked, they both are using only their own information. They can and should, therefore, both answer "No". Remaining silent gives no information. This is problematic because the second time they are asked, they must use information from the other's previous negative response to deduce further. If both had simply remained silent, then they would each have to assume that the other's silence can be construed as a negative. This act of assumption is very far indeed from remaining perfectly logical. If they both remain silent at all times, then it would be an infinite loop because no further information is entered into the system.
Much hangs on the interpretation of “Silence”.
Silence is not that same as “No”, it is a refusal to answer a question and leaves the other parties without any further information.
An unambiguous “No” actually gives the information required to solve the puzzle.
This was fun. Once explained the answer is obvious and I almost got there. I SUBSCRIBED because it seemed the logical conclusion. Thanks.
After the first logic of Shilpa's part was explained , I gave a thought again and voila ! I did get it. It's really fun to solve them. 😊