Thanks for making this. I've always wondered if it was actually different but never looked it up until today. It just looks like a curveball to me but this confirms it's just a comfort thing and is basically the same pitch
I’ve always hated the name “ knuckle curve” because it was and oxymoron. Knuckle ball isn’t supposed to spin and a curve is supposed to spin. Never knew you was just because of the grip
3 года назад+6
I find that having my index finger pointing up and out of the way let's me focus on the rest of the pitch better. I taught myself how to throw it in an afternoon just throwing straight down at the ground till the ball started to run away from me. I assumed that meant there was enough forward spin. Then when I threw it for real it broke heaps though it was more of a slurve. I found that until I threw it going from pronation to supination I couldn't get the forward spin, but also that going for a 100% supination 'snap' didn't feel as good as just going for an easy 90%. The real challenge personally is making sure it's a proper 12 6 when I throw it hard, too easy to throw a slurve by accident and that's no good. Watching good folk like yourself who took the ever prevalent mysticism out of breaking pitches really helped, I would have just kept thinking it was beyond me otherwise.
I never paid attention to the spin or grip of a pitch as a hitter. It's the forearm position at the release point I picked up on. The curveball is the same as a knucklecurve. Maybe more spin rate but same pitch.
I never heard that much about it....seems like its no different than a actual 12-6 curve with less stability because of the finger placement. Now a regular knuckle ball is downright nasty.
Mike Mussina! 😁 that's all I can think of when I hear the knuckle curve, good info bro. Mike had a great pre game conversation demonstration with the Orioles broadcasters on how he gripped and let it go I wonder if I can find it.
On the flicking of the index finger, I have to say that it does in fact work. I hold it differently than what you show. I hold it like a four seam, with the horseshoe pointing inside. I tuck my index finger and have the ball rest on my cuticle. I throw it like a mix between throwing a curve and fastball, and flick my finger just before flicking my wrist. I find that "pointing" where I want it to go helps with control, and the break I get when I throw it right is insane. so sharp and last minute
without slow motion video evidence, I don't believe your flicking adds any benefit. Lots of people are misinformed about what their grips or high speed movements actually do in a game. Plus your description doesnt make much sense.
@@DanBlewett This makes sense when talking about a traditional 12-6 and a high arm slot guy. For a low 3/4 and below arm slot, a traditional curveball grip is going to give more lateral slurve type movement. In this case, slightly changing your wrist position and flicking the finger forward can add more depth/downward break without compromising pronation and putting additional strain on the elbow or having to change your arm slot altogether.
@@juliandavis2143 my knucklecurve is visibly better when I flick with my index finger. I'm throwing at 3/4 arm slot and it slurves nicely. If I raise my armslot to overhead it absolutely does NOT do anything to flick my index finger and my knucklecurve doesn't do much at all to be honest (just me personally, it's a poor 12/6 curve for me). I'd love to get a spinrate on it with and without the flick, we're likely not talking much additional spin, but from the catchers POV I've been told the difference with versus without a flick, is quite noticeable.
my knuckle curve moves like slurve/slider and its also a lot easier to command the ball than a slider-like grip. Honestly i think the thing about knucklecurve is just better control,
when I was taught a "knuckle curve" I was told I didn't even need to get on top of it, that was the part that made me want to throw it at the age most people started developing curves. Now seeing that no matter what to throw an effective curve you need the correct spin, I wonder what the pitch was was throwing was called especially because it was working lol. I used the full knuckle on the ball grip and just threw it like a fastball, it got some break to it but it was more of a dropping curve.
That sounds like a slider or an inefficient curve. If you look up Slider and Curveball Variations Driveline, you might be able to figure out what bucket your “knuckle curve” falls into.
The knuckle curve grip should not be thrown with the intention of creating spin with your wrist. It should be thrown straight like a fastball. Because when the ball starts to roll off the two fingers it gets uneven pressure by the time the fingers are off the ball. The knuckled finger loses contact first, significantly longer than the middle finger. This causes the middle finger contact to push the ball into a 90 degree spin and the middle finger ends up losing contact on the outline of the ball rather than the vertical line. I prefer to call it the Aye-Aye pitch because your hand looks like that monkey that has the really long middle finger.
It is sooooooo true Coach. Great a lot times masters think they know but have no clue why they are so great. That’s why so many masters are horrible teachers. Jordan was a horrible owner of basketball team. So many players just were not good coaches because they think they understand why they great but actually don’t want to admit that a lot of their greatness is simply instinctive. Some of the best masters/teachers are the ones who got there purely by hard work and had less talent. They had to grind to get minutes and playing time and earn everything. They were forced to improve and refine their game because they failed so much because didn’t come naturally for them.
Damn I always thought a knuckle curve was a pitch with the properties of a curve, and knuckle ball. Like a curveball with some zig zag added to it. I feel like I've been lied to for half my life believing in some super natural pitch that never really existed.😄The even worse thing is that I was a big Mussina fan😬
A few days ago, I threw a slider with that grip, because that's what gave sense to the index knuckle for me, and then it acted like a slurve. Is that how you use it?
I’ve always used my knuckle as a spin contributor… I get good movement, but I’m curious, if I brought my knuckle off the seam and didn’t “flick” the ball, would I get better movement? >_>
I was throwing a 1-7 curve without kunckle, but 12-6 with my knuckle, dont know why but thats the difference it made for me. The knuckle made it easier for me to control my pitch too. again dont know why but that does the job for me. So I guess rather than a spin contributor, the knuckle acts more like a control contributor for me? I mean if knuckle doenst work or doesnt contribute anything, why would MLB players use Knuckle curve?
my friend thinks that the knuckle curve doesn't curve as much but i throw a 12/6 knuckle curve and i can throw a 12/6 "normal" curve. there is no difference
Good video, I guess the name is misleading, we all know a true "Knuckleball" has almost zero rotation, this should be named something different since there is obviously spin on the ball
i have just started learning how to throw curveballs and i have found that if i hold the knuckle curve it will move a lot more than just a traditional grip
Isn't it weird there are 100 other videos on the knuckle curve that are talking about an entirely different pitch. For youth pitchers the knuckle curve can be used to get the curve ball break without the arm and wrist motion needed for a traditional curve ball. But if you are interested in the knuckle curve, look at other videos, not this one; this describes a curve ball grip while bitching about someone holding it slightly different.
The Knuckle-Curve should be thrown with a fast ball release. You are showing it thrown with a tradition curve ball release which is the wrong release for a true Knuckle-Curve pitch.
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Thanks for making this. I've always wondered if it was actually different but never looked it up until today. It just looks like a curveball to me but this confirms it's just a comfort thing and is basically the same pitch
“A lot of athletes don’t know why they’re good …” 🤣
I’ve always hated the name “ knuckle curve” because it was and oxymoron. Knuckle ball isn’t supposed to spin and a curve is supposed to spin. Never knew you was just because of the grip
I find that having my index finger pointing up and out of the way let's me focus on the rest of the pitch better. I taught myself how to throw it in an afternoon just throwing straight down at the ground till the ball started to run away from me. I assumed that meant there was enough forward spin. Then when I threw it for real it broke heaps though it was more of a slurve. I found that until I threw it going from pronation to supination I couldn't get the forward spin, but also that going for a 100% supination 'snap' didn't feel as good as just going for an easy 90%.
The real challenge personally is making sure it's a proper 12 6 when I throw it hard, too easy to throw a slurve by accident and that's no good. Watching good folk like yourself who took the ever prevalent mysticism out of breaking pitches really helped, I would have just kept thinking it was beyond me otherwise.
I never paid attention to the spin or grip of a pitch as a hitter. It's the forearm position at the release point I picked up on. The curveball is the same as a knucklecurve. Maybe more spin rate but same pitch.
Lol. You must not have been a good hitter if you couldn't read spin and rotation
I never heard that much about it....seems like its no different than a actual 12-6 curve with less stability because of the finger placement. Now a regular knuckle ball is downright nasty.
Mike Mussina! 😁 that's all I can think of when I hear the knuckle curve, good info bro. Mike had a great pre game conversation demonstration with the Orioles broadcasters on how he gripped and let it go I wonder if I can find it.
On the flicking of the index finger, I have to say that it does in fact work. I hold it differently than what you show. I hold it like a four seam, with the horseshoe pointing inside. I tuck my index finger and have the ball rest on my cuticle. I throw it like a mix between throwing a curve and fastball, and flick my finger just before flicking my wrist. I find that "pointing" where I want it to go helps with control, and the break I get when I throw it right is insane. so sharp and last minute
without slow motion video evidence, I don't believe your flicking adds any benefit. Lots of people are misinformed about what their grips or high speed movements actually do in a game. Plus your description doesnt make much sense.
@@DanBlewett This makes sense when talking about a traditional 12-6 and a high arm slot guy. For a low 3/4 and below arm slot, a traditional curveball grip is going to give more lateral slurve type movement. In this case, slightly changing your wrist position and flicking the finger forward can add more depth/downward break without compromising pronation and putting additional strain on the elbow or having to change your arm slot altogether.
@@juliandavis2143 my knucklecurve is visibly better when I flick with my index finger. I'm throwing at 3/4 arm slot and it slurves nicely. If I raise my armslot to overhead it absolutely does NOT do anything to flick my index finger and my knucklecurve doesn't do much at all to be honest (just me personally, it's a poor 12/6 curve for me).
I'd love to get a spinrate on it with and without the flick, we're likely not talking much additional spin, but from the catchers POV I've been told the difference with versus without a flick, is quite noticeable.
my knuckle curve moves like slurve/slider and its also a lot easier to command the ball than a slider-like grip.
Honestly i think the thing about knucklecurve is just better control,
I loved my knuckle-curve for that reason. I threw a KCV and Slider as my breaking balls. Eventually end up using my KCV more.
Thanks - it is nothing like a knuckle ball it is a variety of a curve ball
when I was taught a "knuckle curve" I was told I didn't even need to get on top of it, that was the part that made me want to throw it at the age most people started developing curves. Now seeing that no matter what to throw an effective curve you need the correct spin, I wonder what the pitch was was throwing was called especially because it was working lol. I used the full knuckle on the ball grip and just threw it like a fastball, it got some break to it but it was more of a dropping curve.
That sounds like a slider or an inefficient curve. If you look up Slider and Curveball Variations Driveline, you might be able to figure out what bucket your “knuckle curve” falls into.
The knuckle curve grip should not be thrown with the intention of creating spin with your wrist. It should be thrown straight like a fastball. Because when the ball starts to roll off the two fingers it gets uneven pressure by the time the fingers are off the ball. The knuckled finger loses contact first, significantly longer than the middle finger. This causes the middle finger contact to push the ball into a 90 degree spin and the middle finger ends up losing contact on the outline of the ball rather than the vertical line. I prefer to call it the Aye-Aye pitch because your hand looks like that monkey that has the really long middle finger.
倪福德 was your former teammate!! I liked him when I was young haha
Yep! Fu Te Ni is HILARIOUS. He was a great guy to have on the team.
@@DanBlewett Ni's strange posture really hides his release point well and helps confuse the batter.
It is sooooooo true Coach. Great a lot times masters think they know but have no clue why they are so great. That’s why so many masters are horrible teachers. Jordan was a horrible owner of basketball team. So many players just were not good coaches because they think they understand why they great but actually don’t want to admit that a lot of their greatness is simply instinctive. Some of the best masters/teachers are the ones who got there purely by hard work and had less talent. They had to grind to get minutes and playing time and earn everything. They were forced to improve and refine their game because they failed so much because didn’t come naturally for them.
Friction from the knuckle slows it down(cliff lee) I threw a lazy index so nobody could see my middle finger pointing.
theres no way that's true at all. Just speculation.
If you throw a four seamer, but tuck your index finger and flick it won't it create forward down spin like a curveball?
no
Damn I always thought a knuckle curve was a pitch with the properties of a curve, and knuckle ball. Like a curveball with some zig zag added to it. I feel like I've been lied to for half my life believing in some super natural pitch that never really existed.😄The even worse thing is that I was a big Mussina fan😬
haha, yeah, unfortunately the pitch is not some mythical creature
I always hoped it was a curveball that didn't have any spin. How cool would that be.
@@brahemedays2914 how would that work 🤣
A few days ago, I threw a slider with that grip, because that's what gave sense to the index knuckle for me, and then it acted like a slurve. Is that how you use it?
no
Coach im a 14 year old pitcher . What pitches do you recommend me to have
fastball and a changeup is my general recommendation
Excellent description and demonstration!
Thank you kindly!
It’s Ni’s signature,I’m also from Taiwan.Great Video 🎉
I always wondered what the difference was, turns out there isn't any lol
yup. its just weird that it's got it's somewhat separate name, when really its just a grip variation
I grip mine from the side of the top of the horseshoe. It gives it the exact opposite of a fastball spin so the hitter can’t read that it’s a curve
That's Fu-De Ni(倪福德）happy to see this as a Taiwanese fan!
He was my teammate. Love Fu-Te. What a great guy.
Thanks for the video coach Dan . I realize youngsters should not throw the curve yet . What is your opinion of the splitter for a 12 year old ?
god no. thats a terrible pitch for almost anyone to learn, especially a youngster. changeup.
@@DanBlewett Thank you coach, did not want to make that boo 😒 boo
Not many throw the Knuckle Curve.
But there's a lot of Knuckle Heads out there.
I’ve always used my knuckle as a spin contributor… I get good movement, but I’m curious, if I brought my knuckle off the seam and didn’t “flick” the ball, would I get better movement? >_>
the knuckle doesnt contribute anything to spinning the ball.
I was throwing a 1-7 curve without kunckle, but 12-6 with my knuckle, dont know why but thats the difference it made for me. The knuckle made it easier for me to control my pitch too. again dont know why but that does the job for me. So I guess rather than a spin contributor, the knuckle acts more like a control contributor for me? I mean if knuckle doenst work or doesnt contribute anything, why would MLB players use Knuckle curve?
comfort, the way you described it is a valid reason to throw it.
my friend thinks that the knuckle curve doesn't curve as much but i throw a 12/6 knuckle curve and i can throw a 12/6 "normal" curve. there is no difference
yup
What about a slurve hows that work
slurve is a junk pitch. I explain here: ruclips.net/video/cFnnfKOHbpI/видео.html
Should I (12) use this pitch, or keep to a change up till later
change til later.
Also idk why but when I throw curves if I throw 12-6 I put my finger up if I throw 1-7 I put my finger down
One of my teammates has a nasty knuckle curve
I taught myself how to throw a knuckle curve when I was 10
Good video, I guess the name is misleading, we all know a true "Knuckleball" has almost zero rotation, this should be named something different since there is obviously spin on the ball
i have just started learning how to throw curveballs and i have found that if i hold the knuckle curve it will move a lot more than just a traditional grip
Sheeeeeeesh
Isn't it weird there are 100 other videos on the knuckle curve that are talking about an entirely different pitch. For youth pitchers the knuckle curve can be used to get the curve ball break without the arm and wrist motion needed for a traditional curve ball. But if you are interested in the knuckle curve, look at other videos, not this one; this describes a curve ball grip while bitching about someone holding it slightly different.
no, actually the difference is that you don't know what you're talking about (as well as 100 other junk videos)
The Knuckle-Curve should be thrown with a fast ball release. You are showing it thrown with a tradition curve ball release which is the wrong release for a true Knuckle-Curve pitch.
BS!