Thunder Lizards should be allowed to use a Monstrous Action more than once. My biggest issue with TL is that I'm actively penalized for doing the exact thing the subfaction is designed to do... Bring a bunch of monsters.
One rule that could be funnier might just be a "+1 to all dices involved for monstrous rampages". So all the the monstrous rampages can be used and are better. And you can still put a limit like "a 1 is still a failed roll" if you think that stomp and odious roar (the buff of the -1 hit trog range) are too op if always done And yeah, the Basildon could fail more time its rampage, but also giving it more punch ! (And wet dream of eating a 5 wound model on a 5+ with the carno 😂)
I think some changes to the subfaction rules might help as well. I'd love to see Scaly Skin be more universally useful. Not sure what the right balance there is, maybe -1 to wound. I'd love to see the +1 to wound on charges for Koatl's Claw changed to just +1 to wound. For Thunder Lizards I think it's reasonable to let different monsters repeat monstrous rampages that other monsters used.
Yes i also find it frusterating that skinks get 0 benefit in coalest. I love my raptadons and terradons but its almost always better to pick something else. Like skinks living on the ground must have developed something the starbourne dont have. And also skink heros dont get any artefacts or command traits which blows my mind, makes the stagadon chief even worse
I think it'd be wise if CPP were tied to actual units points cost, so for every 10pts of unit cost it costs 1 CPP. That way it dynamically changes along with any other points updates they make in the future. Agree with all your point changes, one other I think they should make is to make Raptadon Hunters -20 down to 130pts so it makes sense to bring them along with the Chargers. I want that synergy to be worthwhile.
Great vid as usual! I like the changes I hate to see the slann being so damn expensive. I know he's far to strong in Starborn, but he's just so ridiculously bad in Coalesced that's it's sad. He's got really poor warscrolls spells which mean in coalesced it doesn't do much, and paying 300pts for a big slow wizard that will just cast shield all the time and mostl likely +1 Rend on some warrior is just a no go. But on the other side, he's the only one getting access to those spells, so you'll never see the "fun" spell, even in casual.
Yeah if Earth Trembles could be a straight line to any board edge, that would help. Itzl's Invigoration should have something like 24" range, Slann shouldn't be getting that close to battle. Would be great if Telepathic Summons had a further range also.
The Spawn of Chotec has been a surprisingly good screening unit for my saurus in Koatl’s Claw. Because you’re getting in close you get to use the shorter ranged ability (which is also very nice for an Unleash Hell) Way better than skinks or something similar for screening imho. At 100pts it would be bonkers
Yes!!! The 12” flamethrower is epic and probably underutilized. It’s a cheap summon (I like Starborne) that poses a huge threat to reinforced battleline units. 😎👍🏻🔥🔥🔥
I agree that 3d6 on the Engine of the Gods would be a great change. It would make it relevant. But my prediction is that they just drop it to 260 points. Making it the same as a current stegadon. That would put the Engine as a direct comparison to the Bow on the Stegadon, which feels like a fair comparison.
I'd would go and say that the Chotec should be 90 points. I know that the steam tank is going up in points in Cities, but it is literally a better salamander and stegadon, even if it jumps up in points. Why bother taking a unit that can only use one shooting option and hits on fours versus the allied unit that has two shooting options, and an ability that can make one of those weapons be more potent. Not to mention the better save stat the steam tank has.
I like your idea on the engine, it really needs a change in its rules to be playable. I would be happy if they either do this or give him back the priest keyword.
Instead of Points dropping Stegs and Solar Engine, give Thunder Lizard +1A with missile weapons for monsters. Returns it to the same playstyle as the last book and makes it way more interesting as a subfaction. My wishlist: Scaly Skin changed to -1 to wound Aggradons and Carnosaurs given Bite Rolls The above thunder lizard change Your same idea for Celestial Resonance Raise Astrolith and Kroak points, leave Slann alone Change Throne of the Lost Gods to 3+ save instead of +1W. 10 wounds is bad.
We need mount traits back, no idea why they weren't in the last book and why they took them out again after finally giving us some in a White Dwarf. Thunder Lizard needs a rework of their monstrous rampage rule and all the monsters need to be cheaper. We also need priests back. Again, no idea why priests were removed in an army that has always had them before. The Skink side of the army is fine, it's just Starborne's allegiance traits with the summoning and teleporting remaining essentially the same makes them very strong, while the Coalesced side got nerfed hard after Thunder Lizards brutalized people in 2nd edition. Slann don't need to be more expensive, we need to be able to run a Slann in Coalesced. What they need to generate slightly less CCP in Starborne. Engine of the Gods needs a complete ability rework, but if not the changes you suggested are good. Scaly Skin needs to be either a ward save or something else that's useful against all armies but not a hard counter to certain armies. The biggest thing holding our army back is the major unbalance between what are essentially two separate armies using the same units. What would work best would be different point costs between the two factions. But since that doesn't seem to be likely, I hope GW doesn't continue to just nerf what gets used the most without looking at why it gets used the most...
New Seraphon player here. While fangs is winning I feel like it’s not fun to play and wholesale nerfs only adjusts one playstyle. What’s your take on rewarding more interactive types of gameplay? For instance, I would like to see some more Skink/Kroxigor interactions and Oracle style debuffs. Thoughts?
Scar Veteran on Aggradons cannot always work on everything, it would be too overpowered. What they should change is to delete once per battle, but work only on him and one other unit
starborne summoning needs tuning down. u can’t keep up with 20 skinks coming in a turn as screens. and u just get nuked from kroak no matter what. 30 more points and 2 less summoning points per turn is an absurd suggestion to balance them out.
How do you summon 20 skinks a turn? The "Summon Seraphon" battle trait can only be used once a battle round. You can summon 10 skinks for 8 CPP. I' not seeing anyway to summon 20.
@CalebHastings I belong to a game club, we will be starting our aos tournament league this month and I am done painting ten out of 12 aggradons. Just mettalics left on the 2 unfinished.
![[3rd Edition] Battlescroll - Seraphon Updates!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V3Sns79cK6g/mqdefault.jpg)
![[3rd Edition] Battlescroll - Seraphon Updates!](/img/tr.png)
I miss Monster mash Thunder Lizards. "Oh, you brought an army? Here are my 8 Dinosaurs."
Me too!
Thunder Lizards should be allowed to use a Monstrous Action more than once. My biggest issue with TL is that I'm actively penalized for doing the exact thing the subfaction is designed to do... Bring a bunch of monsters.
One rule that could be funnier might just be a "+1 to all dices involved for monstrous rampages".
So all the the monstrous rampages can be used and are better. And you can still put a limit like "a 1 is still a failed roll" if you think that stomp and odious roar (the buff of the -1 hit trog range) are too op if always done
And yeah, the Basildon could fail more time its rampage, but also giving it more punch !
(And wet dream of eating a 5 wound model on a 5+ with the carno 😂)
I think some changes to the subfaction rules might help as well. I'd love to see Scaly Skin be more universally useful. Not sure what the right balance there is, maybe -1 to wound. I'd love to see the +1 to wound on charges for Koatl's Claw changed to just +1 to wound. For Thunder Lizards I think it's reasonable to let different monsters repeat monstrous rampages that other monsters used.
Yes i also find it frusterating that skinks get 0 benefit in coalest. I love my raptadons and terradons but its almost always better to pick something else. Like skinks living on the ground must have developed something the starbourne dont have. And also skink heros dont get any artefacts or command traits which blows my mind, makes the stagadon chief even worse
I like that idea for Thunderlizard!!
I think it'd be wise if CPP were tied to actual units points cost, so for every 10pts of unit cost it costs 1 CPP. That way it dynamically changes along with any other points updates they make in the future.
Agree with all your point changes, one other I think they should make is to make Raptadon Hunters -20 down to 130pts so it makes sense to bring them along with the Chargers. I want that synergy to be worthwhile.
Great vid as usual! I like the changes
I hate to see the slann being so damn expensive. I know he's far to strong in Starborn, but he's just so ridiculously bad in Coalesced that's it's sad. He's got really poor warscrolls spells which mean in coalesced it doesn't do much, and paying 300pts for a big slow wizard that will just cast shield all the time and mostl likely +1 Rend on some warrior is just a no go. But on the other side, he's the only one getting access to those spells, so you'll never see the "fun" spell, even in casual.
Yep, exactly!!!
Yeah if Earth Trembles could be a straight line to any board edge, that would help. Itzl's Invigoration should have something like 24" range, Slann shouldn't be getting that close to battle. Would be great if Telepathic Summons had a further range also.
The Spawn of Chotec has been a surprisingly good screening unit for my saurus in Koatl’s Claw. Because you’re getting in close you get to use the shorter ranged ability (which is also very nice for an Unleash Hell)
Way better than skinks or something similar for screening imho. At 100pts it would be bonkers
Yes!!! The 12” flamethrower is epic and probably underutilized. It’s a cheap summon (I like Starborne) that poses a huge threat to reinforced battleline units. 😎👍🏻🔥🔥🔥
The changes in points is what I think the army needs. Since coalesced are not especially good at anything, we need to at least be cheaper.
I agree that 3d6 on the Engine of the Gods would be a great change. It would make it relevant. But my prediction is that they just drop it to 260 points. Making it the same as a current stegadon. That would put the Engine as a direct comparison to the Bow on the Stegadon, which feels like a fair comparison.
I'd would go and say that the Chotec should be 90 points. I know that the steam tank is going up in points in Cities, but it is literally a better salamander and stegadon, even if it jumps up in points.
Why bother taking a unit that can only use one shooting option and hits on fours versus the allied unit that has two shooting options, and an ability that can make one of those weapons be more potent. Not to mention the better save stat the steam tank has.
I like your idea on the engine, it really needs a change in its rules to be playable. I would be happy if they either do this or give him back the priest keyword.
If the Stegadon goes down by (-10) to 250 I'll be extremely happy
Instead of Points dropping Stegs and Solar Engine, give Thunder Lizard +1A with missile weapons for monsters. Returns it to the same playstyle as the last book and makes it way more interesting as a subfaction.
My wishlist:
Scaly Skin changed to -1 to wound
Aggradons and Carnosaurs given Bite Rolls
The above thunder lizard change
Your same idea for Celestial Resonance
Raise Astrolith and Kroak points, leave Slann alone
Change Throne of the Lost Gods to 3+ save instead of +1W. 10 wounds is bad.
I would like that!!
And YES! Aggradons and Carnos need bite rolls!!
I‘d love if they allocated separate points to Star Born and Coalesced
We need mount traits back, no idea why they weren't in the last book and why they took them out again after finally giving us some in a White Dwarf.
Thunder Lizard needs a rework of their monstrous rampage rule and all the monsters need to be cheaper. We also need priests back. Again, no idea why priests were removed in an army that has always had them before.
The Skink side of the army is fine, it's just Starborne's allegiance traits with the summoning and teleporting remaining essentially the same makes them very strong, while the Coalesced side got nerfed hard after Thunder Lizards brutalized people in 2nd edition. Slann don't need to be more expensive, we need to be able to run a Slann in Coalesced. What they need to generate slightly less CCP in Starborne.
Engine of the Gods needs a complete ability rework, but if not the changes you suggested are good. Scaly Skin needs to be either a ward save or something else that's useful against all armies but not a hard counter to certain armies.
The biggest thing holding our army back is the major unbalance between what are essentially two separate armies using the same units. What would work best would be different point costs between the two factions. But since that doesn't seem to be likely, I hope GW doesn't continue to just nerf what gets used the most without looking at why it gets used the most...
New Seraphon player here. While fangs is winning I feel like it’s not fun to play and wholesale nerfs only adjusts one playstyle. What’s your take on rewarding more interactive types of gameplay? For instance, I would like to see some more Skink/Kroxigor interactions and Oracle style debuffs. Thoughts?
That would be ideal! I'd love to see a more varied play style in Starborne
@@CalebHastingsI think Starborne should be primarily a movement/positioning faction supplemented with summoning rather than just going all out on CCP
You miss the kroxigor. They need a lower point cost. 160 and 170 compared to aggradon. Or saurus warrior. Nop!
Scar Veteran on Aggradons cannot always work on everything, it would be too overpowered. What they should change is to delete once per battle, but work only on him and one other unit
And kroak need à 20 points up
Definitely buffs to anything but the terrible Kroak/Slann lists
What they are going to do is see that illegal? thunder lizard list and assume the saurus side is fine.
starborne summoning needs tuning down. u can’t keep up with 20 skinks coming in a turn as screens. and u just get nuked from kroak no matter what. 30 more points and 2 less summoning points per turn is an absurd suggestion to balance them out.
How do you summon 20 skinks a turn? The "Summon Seraphon" battle trait can only be used once a battle round. You can summon 10 skinks for 8 CPP. I' not seeing anyway to summon 20.
Its gonna hurt Starborne
Wish my father shared the same interests as me
I just hope they do not nerf my aggradons
I sure hope not!
@CalebHastings I belong to a game club, we will be starting our aos tournament league this month and I am done painting ten out of 12 aggradons. Just mettalics left on the 2 unfinished.
@@dances4980 nice! Aggradons are so fun!
Also the starblood stalkers are one of the worst units ive ever seen
Yep! They need an entire rewrite of their warscroll!