Harmonic Atheist - Interview with Susan
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Today I spoke with Susan, a friend whom I have known for over 30 years. We met in kindergarten, and remained good friends for many years as we attended Christian school together, where part of our indoctrination occurred. We were also heavily involved in Bible quizzing, when we memorized hundreds of verses.
We discussed Susan's deconversion from Christianity, including the ways that the Christian worldview--especially the fundamentalist Christian one--hurts and emotionally scars people who grow up in it. We talked about the cracks that appear early in life, which are painful to work through, but which ultimately help people to think more rationally, to realize that Christianity is mythology and that the Christian god is not actually real, and to truly begin to live their lives for the first time.
Thanks to Susan for her vulnerability, realness, wisdom, sensitivity, and love for life.
______________________________________
Your support for my channel, Harmonic Atheist, is very appreciated.
/ harmonicatheist
The more support I receive, the sooner I can do this full time!
--Tim
I’m willing to be interviewed, if you’re interested. I’m a Mom of 12 who raised my kids in a Christian cult, and ruined their lives. It will forever break my heart. I deconverted several years ago. Though it was really rough for a few years, it’s the best decision I’ve ever made. Thank you for sharing your story and doing this work. It’s so important.
That sounds interesting. Did you manage to get in contact with him?
I think you need to send an email
@@jolantakolder1574 we’re working on it. Our schedules have been crazy, but it will happen. Lol
Yes, I want to hear this.
I'm 47 and I left christianity last year and feel free for the first time in my life. I'm glad you started this channel your doing a great job. Peace
Thank you very much Craig! Let me know if you'd be interested in an interview. --Tim
The 'peace that passes all understanding' (freedom too) is discovered WHEN you leave Christianity!
@@warrenbim7204 Hi. I like to call the Exegesis of scriptures..... wait for it.....the ExitJesus‼️😬
Great interview. I was never deeply religious, but just a passive bystander to this evil mind control cults. When I understood that not speaking up was just as bad, I finally came out as Atheist. Never been happier.
Thanks, Henry! I appreciate your sharing that.
Yes Us Atheists need to.be heard and we wont be ignored and im not gonna let my family just let my questions go unanswered anymore
Susan, thank you so VERY MUCH, for sharing. I feel guilty about the way I’ve raised my eldest who is now 22😢. My youngest 5 children are not going to get this world view from this day forth. My start of doubt and questioning has been years!!!! But my AHHA is just recent. My ‘good enough’ has NEVER existed😢. Just knew at the end I wasn’t ‘chosen’ Oh boy I just appreciate being able to relate to this your upbringing.
Met more beautiful people who seemed ‘better than’ the Christians I’d ever met.
My father was the ‘walking encyclopaedia’ beloved Pastor and awesome mind.
That girl, sacrificed by her father ’yes’ my start of questioning!!!???!!!
Thank you so very much ❤😊
Such a powerful and touching story articulately told by a woman of both grace and intelligence.
To listen to Susan speak about her upbringing and how the religious indoctrination was so hard on her really enforces the fact that religion is just downright emotional abuse. To make matters worse is that in her case it was emotional child abuse. Many kids suffer through this and many innocent lives are destroyed as a result of this sadistic mentality. What struck a chord with me though was how she said that she had thoughts of whether or not to revisit Christianity when she was faced with a terminal illness. I did exactly that, I did return to Christianity after many years away from it when doctors told me I would die as a result of health issues. Thankfully though, the fact that I began researching the origin of Christianity eventually led me out of it for good. I'm looking forward to Tim's next chat with Susan! :-)
Tim, I’ve listened to a few of your conversations now. You are a really good interviewer. You have a natural knack for knowing when to listen attentively and when to add a question or comment at just the right time to improve the conversation. I hope you keep this up.
Thank you, I really appreciate that feedback!
Oh my god that doesn’t exist at all, Tim, you’re an exceptional host. Thank you.
Thanks to all the people courageously sharing their stories.
Thank you Susan for sharing your story ! 💗
Hoping to hear more from you.
I’m only about 2/3 of the way through. Glued to both of yours stories. I have to say the pain from childhood you experienced is palpable. I was raised in a hit and miss Lutheran background, then later in HS had a conversion experience. I can empathize with the on going pain. It took probably 20yrs for me to emotionally heal from my trauma from my experience. Healing from childhood trauma is so hard. Thanks for sharing. Two beautiful people.
Thank you, Susan, for sharing your story. I’m so sorry for the trauma you’ve endured. I did the same to mine and I wish I could undo the damage I did to the, for believing such horrible things.
I could totally relate to her when she said she jumped ship to be with the masses. That's exactly how it felt when I walked away.
I hope you do part 2 to this conversation. I’m free from Christianity for about three years but I’m still processing and dealing with the damage I caused my children by indoctrinating them. I’d love to hear a testimony about how people have dealt with that aspect of deconversion.
Thanks, Katy, I think that's a great topic. I will try to make that happen as I set up future interviews. --Tim
When I was Christian I was scared to question God. when I lost my grandson by his on hands he was only 18 he was a unbeliever. I had to know was god going to send my beautiful grandson to hell. I study the Bible my Journey began god isn’t real if he was I would hate him because in that Bible he hates women and children . I’m so free it’s good to be free my husband is unbeliever too now .love your channel
That is so great to here youve got the blinders off me too my family believes the bible is extremely literal even my gay sister for the most part i wish they had the sense to question things but they wont and they wont even answer my questions about the bible cause they are afraid its so sick that any religion has to resort to fear
Such a terrible loss. I met someone who lost their son like that. I saw them constantly pick through scripture for hope that their son wasn't in hell.
Poor Susan...what a horrible daily torture..thank you for telling your story..
Thank you for sharing this Susan! You have greatly helped me. At 28:00- that is exactly how i prayed all my childhood. Same. I had forgotten. Thank you Tim for what your doing here. It is healing.
This interview was great. Thanks for the "testimony". :)
Thank you!
When human beings insist upon constant adulation and praise we identify them as narcissists.
Allen, please expound on your thoughts here.
Are you meaning 'adulation' found in religion (specifically Christendom)?
Ops, sorry, 'Alien Baby' 😊
You prolly dont care but if you're bored like me atm you can stream all the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. Have been watching with my brother for the last weeks xD
@Decker Jadiel definitely, have been using instaflixxer for since december myself :)
Like Trump demands from his ignorant little sheep.
Powerful interview, thank you Susan for your vulnerability and honesty!
Thanks, Cindy! Agreed! Susan is awesome, and her story is inspiring.
Wow, what a extraordinary interview.👍
Great interview with Susan Tim …..keep up this important work ! best wishes !
The story that still messes me up is the story where Lot relinquishes his daughters to be raped by a mob of “sexual deviants”. I mean...where did the writer come up with THAT story? 🙄
It must have been an important message however, because it was repeated in Judges 19.
Thank you so much for making these interviews! And thanks to Susan for sharing her painful story!
I am a black costarrican. Still a believer but like to hear this type of stories because I have also had questions about christianity
Good keep questioning don't let apologists blind you to how awful god really is
@@atheistechoes9594 I could never swallow the darwin thing. I think the gnostics had it right man. The creator was an abusive stepfather.
@@jacksonmiller6679 You mean evolution? It's just a fact. Supported by all the evidence and the overwhelming majority of biologists and people who spend their lives studying the subject and writing papers on it.
I grew up with both of you, and I converted to Catholicism when I turned 32. I look forward to listening to this when I get a chance. Tim, say hello to your dad for me. Loved his shop class. I was convinced I would pursue a career in carpentry but ended up in the IT field. I remember you would be in your dads office learning Latin durning his classes.
Hi, PabstOban, feel free to reach out privately if you want to - timlovesatlanta@yahoo.com.
Thanks.
@@HarmonicAtheist Will do!
Christianity, and especially Calvinism, is the perfect sadomasochist relationship, just as Christopher Hitchens had insisted
Is he the guy that wrote Gods not Great
@@atheistechoes9594 yes, a mammoth intelect
@@billkeon880 im actually reading that book on chapter 5
@@billkeon880 i really like how the man writes
He died a painful death, bravely. Never gave an inch. One of my heroes.
"... oh well, she's DECIDED to go to hell ..."
Sounds familiar.
About a year ago, was when l learned, from a Christian, that there were "levels of hell", they said, maybe 6. (?!)
The best way I can understand their reasons for telling me this, was for their own fear of me going there.
Just the fact that they think I decided to go there is mind bogging.
That same Christian, around that same time, held up their Bible to me and said, "I'm not really supposed to have fellowship with you."
(That's what religion does to a person.)
OMG - what a great conversation ! thank you both
Thank you Susan.
Susan's story sounds so much like mine. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for your comment. Susan is amazing!
If you've deconverted as well and want to consider an interview, please feel free to reach out on FB: facebook.com/timandjuliemills/
or by email: harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
--Tim
@@HarmonicAtheist Thank you, Tim. I really enjoy your conversations and think you do a great job! I may consider your offer at some point in the future.
Only 28 min in and I say Susan is a lovely human. I relate to some of the thoughts and feelings shes sharing. I was a Calvinist Christian for years. I couldn't even see how much at the time my beliefs compounded my severe depression. It was hell. Look forward to the rest.
The reason some of us were "saved" numerous times is bc we held an expectation of a greater reality. We measured ourselves against what the book said, "godlier" figures in history, or people we may have known. Everytime that crashed we figured we didn't get it that time and were merely deceived. But the reality never comes. Only as much as each individual is capable of convincing themselves. But for how long? You get to a point where you except the fact that you can never know for certain. "Many are called but few are chosen". "The way is narrow and FEW there be that find it". You always have fear despite the many promises of peace. You could live all your days in sincere devotion and still experience the most horrific surprise; to find you are one of those saying "Lord; Lord" and hearing "depart from me I never knew you". It's just psychological torment. Plain and simple.
I was always questioning why I never heard from Jesus personally. When I finally concluded nobody else was either, they were just looking to their emotions and pretending that was the voice of God, I decided to investigate what was going on.
Tim, I loved your question at 1:11:00…. about morality. I will use this in the future in my debates. Loved Susan’s story and the conversation. Just a bit of info for Susan… the word atheist just means “without a belief in god”. The atheist might think they know there’s no god (gnostic atheist) or may think that there’s no way to know this (agnostic atheist) but currently has no belief in god.
I’ve only just watched this interview are there any more with friend I’d love to hear more from her
It was nice to hear about the young kid, Tim. I've gathered he was a brain from the get-go. Great he's come to the light to show the way to people who need a bit of a boost in the right direction.
And none of this has anything to do with me, personally.
The intriguing algorithm.
I learned a bit of valuable about how religious fundamentalists think about morality from Scott Burdick’s documentary about Dan Barker. He interviewed a bunch about what they would do if god spoke to them to kill their child like in the bible, would they do it and would they think it’s moral to do it. Most everyone said they didn’t think it was a question of morality…it was more about obedience. And that’s how the people think who live in a dictatorship
Everytime i bring up a question to my family about the bible they do everything in their power not to answer it
Same here.
23:50 I see his terrible suffering in a different light after being told that the average man's DEFAULT suffering will be INFINITELY worst that his was. Also knowing that he was the AGENT of all creation, who had set this whole story in motion in the first place. And having had the blessed assurance during his relatively brief suffering that he would soon return to the infinite paradise that he himself created.
I just went and read that story (at 51:00) from the book of Judges 11:29-40. Crazy stuff!
If there is a heaven, it would be a truly wrong universe if it did not include this dear sweet person.
First I love your guests courage for telling her story. I am 44 and have completely left christianity, spent a lot of time as an agnostic atheist, and now I am converting to Judaism. I love to see your journey.
Jesus!! What?? LoL
The Abrahamic god isn't real.
*In Reference to Deuteronomy 32:8-9*
"I should add here that it is very clear from the grammar that the noun nachalah in v. 9 should be translated “inheritance.” *Yahweh receives Israel as his “inheritance” (nachalah), just as the other sons of El received their nations as their inheritance (nachal, v. 8).* With this verb, especially in the Hiphil, the object is always what is being given as an inheritance. Thus, Israel is given to Yahweh as his inheritance.6 It would make no sense for Elyon to give himself an inheritance. *Moreover, as I’ve argued elsewhere, it is not just the Gentile nations that are divided up according to the number of the sons of El.* It is all of humankind, i.e., “the sons of Adam.” This clearly includes Israel. And the sons of Adam are not divided up according to the number of the sons of El, plus one (i.e., plus Elyon). *They are divided up, according to the text, solely according to the number of the sons of El.* ***Thus, that Yahweh receives Israel as his inheritance makes Yahweh one of the sons of El mentioned in v. 8. Any other construal of the text would constitute its rewriting."***
Google *"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Canaanite pantheon was conceived as a divine clan, headed by the *supreme god El;* the gods collectively made up the *Elohim.* Through the centuries, the pantheon of Canaanite gods evolved, so that *El and Asherah* were more important in earlier times, while *Baal* and his consorts came to fore in later years.
*Asherah* - early semitic Mother goddess, "Lady of the sea," *consort of El,* also called Athirat, *the mother of 70 male gods*
*El* - the *chief deity,* god of the sky, *father of many lesser gods* and ruler of the divine assembly, *also worshiped by the Israelites*
*El Elyon* -Special title of El as *"God most High"*
The Book of Genesis itself describes the *patriarch Abraham* as a worshiper of El-also called El Shaddai and *El Elyon* -- building altars, offering sacrifices, and paying tithes to him.
------------------------------------------------------------------
*Deuteronomy 32:8*
*When Elyon (El) gave to the nations their allotted inheritances,* when he divided the sons of Adam, he established the boundaries of the peoples *according to the number of the sons of El* (El and Asherah had *70* sons and in line with the Table of Nations in Genesis 10 *(70 nations)* each son *(Elohim)* received a particular territory or people like the Canaanite god Chemosh in Numbers 21:29)
Yahweh’s portion was his people,
Jacob, the lot of his allotted inheritance *(Yahweh was given Israel by his father, the chief Canaanite god El).*
*Psalm 82*
*’Elohim (Yahweh)* stands in the *council of ’El (chief Canaanite god)*
In the midst of the gods *(Elohim)* he holds judgment.
“How long will you judge unjustly,
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
Render justice to the weak and the fatherless;
vindicate the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
They have neither knowledge nor understanding;
they walk around in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I said, “You are gods (Elohim),
sons of Elyon (El), all of you;
nevertheless, you shall die like mortals,
and fall like any prince.”
Rise up, O *’Elohim (Yahweh),* judge the earth;
for you shall inherit the nations!
Watch Dr Christine Hayes who lectures on the Hebrew Bible at Yale University. Watch lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards and lecture 8 from 12:00 to 19:00 minutes.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Google *"Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites - Biblical Archaeology Society."*
Google *"The Canaanites weren't annihilated, they just 'moved' to Lebanon - The Times of Israel."*
Google *"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopaedia."*
Google *"Canaanite Religion - **Realhistoryww.com**"*
Google *"Canaanite Phoenician Origin of the God of the Israelites."*
Google *"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."*
Google *"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."*
Google *"Married Deities: Asherah and Yahweh in Early Israelite Religion - Yahweh Elohim."*
Google *"Seminary - Hebrew Goddess; Asherah, the Shekinah, consort of Yahweh."*
Google *"The Gates of Ishtar - Anath in the Elephantine Papyri."*
Google *"How the Jews Invented God and Made Him Great- Archaeology - Haaretz."*
Google *"Yahweh - **WorldHistory.Org.**"*
Google *"The Invention of God - Maclean's"*
Google *"The Boundaries of the Nations - Yahweh Elohim."*
Google *"How Did the Bible’s Editors Conceal Evidence of Israelite Polytheism - Evolution of God by Robert Wright."*
Google *"A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 - Ancient Hebrew Poetry."*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #3: Which God is the Creator of the Heavens and Earth: Yahweh or El?"*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #27. Are Yahweh and El the Same God or Not?"*
Google *"Mark Smith: "Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh's Ascendancy - Lehi's Library."*
Google *"Quartz Hill School of Theology - B425 Ugarit and the Bible."*
Google *"The Origins of Yahweh and the Revived Kenite Hypothesis - Is That in the Bible?"*
Google *"Yahweh, god of metallurgy - Fewer Lacunae."*
Google *"Polytheistic Roots of Israelite Religion - Fewer Lacunae."*
Google *"Biblical Polytheism - Bob Seidensticker."*
Google *"Combat Myth: The Curious Story of Yahweh and the Gods Who Preceded Him - Bob Seidensticker."*
Google *"Religious Studies: El, Yahweh and the Development of Monotheism in Ancient Israel."*
Google *"Decoupling YHWH and El - Daniel O. McClellan."*
Google *"Yhwh, God of Edom - Daniel O. McClellan."*
This is quite hard to listen to. I have enough difficulty letting go of much of the baggage religion has left me burdened with. And I didn't grown up in a way that involved religious indoctrination. It's just stuff I've picked up because religion unfortunately is still such a big part of our culture. I really admire your courage and strength of character in facing up to the bullying and abuse you have had to deal with in your life.
Is there any way I can talk with you and Susan please. I'm also having a hard time and I'm. 72 years old and ready to give up with everything.
Hi, John, feel free to reach out to me if you'd like - harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
For those groups of people who believe "Armenian" doctrine, it is not so bad I think. I was raised in the United Pentecostal Church and taught that if you do certain things you will be saved. These things being: repent, be baptized in Jesus name (no other way) and receive the holy ghost speaking in tongues, and then, following all their rules. It is totally a freewill thing though, if you do it, you will for sure be saved. Of course, for someone like me who doesn't believe in that anymore, well, to them, I am not saved. I never fully understood the difference between Calvin vs Armenian till listening to your videos. If I had been raised Calvinist, I am pretty sure I would not believe in God either.
Repent for WHAT? Being born human?
My husband was raised pentecostal and they constantly feared they had lost their salvation over an unrepentant sin, and focused on hell fire all the time. If he couldn't show proof of the spirit, he thought he was unworthy. I was raised in a calvanist sect and believed once saved always saved, and learned little of hell. I always thought I would never have made it in his sect 😂
Tim, your lengthy prologues impede the narrative flow. Let the subject talk, then add your epilogue.
You call 2.5 minutes lengthy? Huh? I mean it IS his channel after all!
It's his channel. He can do whatever he wants.
Is there a part 2 yet?
It's in the works! Apologies for the super long delay -- life got in the way! :) Hoping to catch up this Fall.
Religion:: "How can I get the money from her pocket into mine?" fawns
😄😄😄
You are persistently consistent.
Maybe Susan’s parent doubt and lack of confidence in her just reflects their own doubt. Psychologically I wonder if all the zealousness of her father in writing all those books is just an expression of his fear and doubt, and perhaps it’s his way seeking self approval from god. I just find it hard that her father would express such doubt in her faith, when it wasn’t on her radar. I think it’s just way of expressing his doubt in his own faith.
I'm sorry that you have been hurt by calvinism. I don't believe it's a correct interpretation of the bible. I'm a commited Christian and I'm sorry for anyone who has been hurt by careless Unchristlike Christians.
Everyone is entitled to their options, praying for you all. I hold to the fact that without God there's no hope especially in this scary unpredictable world.
Jesus suffered so much for our sins to give us the free gift of eternal life and is patient with us and wants us all to be saved 💖✝️🙏
Calvinism may have biblical justification, but it is not logical! Free will is not compatible with predestination. Alll the convoluted thinking does not make it so.
Where is Part 2?
Hi, Joshua, sorry, it had to be delayed for several reasons ... if it doesn't happen before long, I'll change the thumbnail to not say Part 1 ... I am hopeful though that Susan and I can connect for it soon. Sorry!
@@HarmonicAtheist thanks for the reply. I enjoyed the interaction between the 2 of you and if it can happen again, that would be fun to see. :-)
Tim, if you see this, please forward this comment to Susan. I'm not a Christian any longer, but i'm still a bible student. It gets old having to explain some of this stuff.
Jepthah's daughter was not killed. She was 'offered' to Yahweh. Here's why we know this: when she went to mourn, it was not for her life - it was for her permanent virginity!! I wish people would not incriminate the bible more than we should. Let's not OVER-prosecute, because doing so will give the cultists the excuse to dismiss us.
While you study the bible yet aren't a Christian you apparently still hold some of the self-deceitful mind set.
The daughter is killed. There are no 2 ways about it. Offerings , as you call it are all killed. The attempt at semantic shifting from killing to offerings is simply the propaganda of indoctrinating lies.
There is no God to offer anything. There is no God to sacrifice sheep, goats chickens, lambs, carpenters, Isaacs, or sons of gods to. There is only superstious folks deluding themselves from their act of killing.
@@bellezavudd Miss, I'm simply asking you to please use common sense. This is best done by removing your emotions from any religious past and any abhorrence of the bible. I get it, okay? We don't like the bible for a myriad of reasons, and those reasons are going to be different for everyone.
But this text makes zero fuckin sense in the narrative that she's murdered...
She's about to die a brutal death and she is upset that she's not going to have sex?? Come on, Belleza Vudd, you're intelligent enough to know that that doesn't even make good non-sense.
Look, I get it... obviously it's more incriminating if she was murdered and if we want the bible dismissed, then we tend to want to amass as many charges against it as possible. But a prosecutor who takes the moral high ground knows NOT to double down on things that aren't air tight.
In this court room situation analogy, the jury are on-the-fence churched believers that we are trying to unconvert, and these people already have an affinity for the defendant (the christian faith).
So, very naturally, what are they going to respond with if you, the prosecutor, try to double down on "Jepthah was offered, and offered can ONLY mean killed" ? The defense (church establishment) is going to provide mitigating evidence:
First of all, no girl that is about to have her throat cut and bled to death mourns her virginity. I actually have a virgin daughter and I'm right certain that if I approached her with a knife and told her she was about to die she wouldn't be thinking about sex.
Second, Jepthah was actually given time to go away and mourn her virginity. Hmmm... she had a chance to escape with her life and chose not to??? #stupidretardedbitch I guess?
Third, Yahwism does not actually endorse ritual human sacrifice, and even condemns it (as found in various passages in the Pentateuch and in Jeremiah).
So, here's what happens in this situation to a christian believer who's sitting on this jury having doubts and maybe teetering on the morality of the bible's god... they see you (the prosecutor) making a point to which the defense can now raise thrice the amount of mitigating factors than your insistence that "offering in every case must mean killed" - which, let's not forget, you can't prove in the first place.
This has a psychological effect. It gives the defense (christian establishment) a major victory. The jury (christians who are on the fence) have now witnessed you try to make a case that you can't and it pushes them back toward the defendant.
@@jacksonmiller6679 What asinine nonsense, are seriously expecting people to believe that if a chicken had walked out of the house there wouldn't have been the ancient equivalent of Chick-fil-A.
@@jacksonmiller6679 No Jephthah's daughter was sacrificed. I wish people would stop with the mental gymnastics.
@@LM-jz9vh okay, I'll walk you through it, little one.
Over WHAT did Jepthah's daughter mourn?
See it? Good job!!!
So who is doing mental gymnastics here? You're so eager to get a ritual death out of this story that you are willing to rape the entire narrative to do it.