Great eye for detail! This could perhaps explain why we see George using the ES-345 for the December 10, 1965 show at the Hammersmith Odeon, although perhaps he might have wanted to bring it out for the 1965 UK tour anyways given he was playing it on the November 20 rehearsals. There's got to be more photos from the 9 shows of the tour out there somewhere that would help provide further evidence!
Thanks for that mattiboo! I’m hoping eventually some more photos will surface and answer many more of these questions. But till then, the mystery & wonder is just as entertaining!
@@guitargearconnection Agreed - love a good new Beatles theory! I am wondering if you have any extra detail on how why the common knowledge is that the County Gent was destroyed? George's quote just mentioned a Gretsch (albeit only one being destroyed, you'd think he'd notice if two were gone by the time they unloaded everything), but not which model. Totally plausible that if one guitar was destroyed that it was the Tennessean given your reporting, but then make you wonder what happened to the supposedly destroyed Country Gent!
@@mattibooan article at the time mentioned, “a Gretsch Countryman.” Also, the truck driver saying “banjo” made some people think Gent due to the leather backpad on the back of the Gent.
@s2seltaeb Yeah but mind you, folks commonly use 'banjo' as a catch-all colloquially. I'm persuaded the Tennessee and was destroyed and cannobalised, but that leaves the CG to question - simply can't believe George wouldn't have noticed it missing. 60 years on and mysteries still arise!
Wow! what a great video! The butterbean tuner from the tenny is pretty compelling evidence that it was actually the Tenny that got destroyed, Mal making the connection between the accident and the tuner on the Hofner is an amazing detail that you noticed. Friggin fantastic , Paul! Great job! I wonder if eventually we'll find out that the story of Harrison giving away the Country Gentleman is true . Maybe THAT guitar will be tracked down too! After all this time it's amazing that truths are still being uncovered breaking the myths and shaping a new understanding of Beatle history! Again really great work, Paul!
Thanks Perry! I too am hoping the flip Gent might possibly show up one day. But I really was hoping the Tenny would come up eventually, but that thing is definitely gone!
I remember reading this account years ago; they were driving at night and a truck flashed his lights at them from behind. They pulled off the road and the trucker said that one of those banjo looking things fell off the back of their vehicle. In the headlights they examined the remains and Ringo determined it to be Georges' spare Gretsch. Singular, one guitar. I don't remember what book that was in.
Paul this is legitimately the coolest Beatles discovery I’ve ever learned about!! Incredible work and undoubtedly an important finding in the Beatles’ musical evolution!
Great job! An important consequence of this discovery is that this guitar was never used for recording again. There is also pictures of Beatles gear from the backstage (The Gamount, Sheffield 8th December, Beatles Book Monthly# 116, 2:28 on this video) where no any Gretsch guitars are visible.
Great eye on the pick up selector on Lucy too. It's clear that the ring was missing but I've never looked closely enough to see the switch was a Gretsch.
That was all 5_Oh_Guitars on instagram! I had never noticed it either. He pointed it out months ago, then when the tuning key surfaced, I had remembered the switch tip!
Absolutely amazing work Paul! I might have to get my hands on Mal's biography some day, it sounds fantastic!! I'm not sure if you've seen the video, but a youtuber called Nick Martellaro recently unearthed George's serial number for the Tennessean by enhancing original negatives! If only the Tenny was still around to BE found. Again, fantastic work Paul! :)
I never noticed the odd tuner on the first Hofner. Such a shame that George lost both Gretsches, most accounts only mention the Gent. Well done as usual Paul!👍👍
Ooh I think it hurts more to learn that both the country gent and tenssean were both destroyed. Tbh it makes so much sense why George ended up switching to the es-345 and later casino/sg for his main gigging guitars with the Beatles. Wise if he still had one gretsch (tenssean or country gent) I believed he would’ve been more likely to use them for the remaining tour of 65. Incredible find as always Paul.
I once spoke with a guy who worked at Gretsch in the 60's. He said that after the Beatles hit, they made George a CG and the workers all signed the underneath of the top before it was completed.
It was a pleasure to listen to such a well written and presented piece. Facts were presented with equal clarity irrespective of whether they originated 60 years or 6 days ago and the speculation was intelligently conceived, the human factors respectfully considered. We can't confirm, possibly no one ever will but that's not the point. I've often thought about how I would have tied those guitars on the trunk of the car. I'd have put the Rickenbacker on first because it's a flat case and then the Gretsch(s). Does anyone know what happened to John's Framus Hootennany from Help?
More fascinating guitarchaeology! Seems like we can be pretty confident the Tennessean didn't survive, though it end up a little too far in the realm of speculation to say the Country Gentleman joined it (George would've noticed 2 missing guitars even if Mal tried to pass it off as one).
Me being a Beatle gear head since the 80's, this is some very intriguing stuff! I always thought it was the Gent that got smashed and the Tennessean was stolen along with his second 360-12.
I had wondered if it was the Tenny. You confirmed my suspicions. Thinking about it, I wonder if the first Gent might’ve been stolen before the Beatles’ ‘63 Christmas shows, as we don’t hear of it after that. The Tenny had been bought as a replacement for that Gent. Finally, George gave a Gretsch away to Brian O’Hara of The Fourmost. I think this was the second Gent. Once again, knocked it right outta the park with your fact checks, Paul! I’d like to see you tackle what happened to John’s blue Strat next!
Great video! Amazing that we are still finding little clues even today. There’s a story somewhere where someone went to Ringo’s house and played the Rickenbacker 1996 and - they claim - George’s Country Gent. Maybe Ringo still has it? Regarding John’s Strat, there’s a compelling rumor that he had it refinished to black with a matching headstock. The photos of that black Strat show that it doesn’t seem to have a Fender logo. Also, in the photos of John holding a Strat in ‘67, he’s using George’s strap. Maybe the subject of another video!
I think that was Mark Hudson commenting about those guitars on the Choose Love album circa 2005. I think it was the 1996 and the ‘62 Tennessean that the Harrison Estate gifted Ringo. (So not the ‘63 Beatle Tennessean). I agree about the black strat having no logo on the headstock. I also believe it has wide fret dot spacing at the 12th fret, and is therefore not a ‘64 as some believe. I think John’s strat got refinished. Possibly crudely, in advance of this tour.
According to Beatles Gear the black Strat was given to John by Ivan Arbitor because he knew they liked black instruments. The only photos of him playing it were from a rehearsal session for their '65 UK tour, where George was using his new ES-345.
@@ARWest-bp4yb True but the black Strat was amongst the band's instruments on tour too. Do you have the page reference in Babiuk for Arbitor giving John the black Strat?
@@andrewkemp1882 Sure, page 328 in the Ultimate edition. The only pix of him actually playing it are from a rehearsal session for their '65 UK tour, with George playing his new ES-345.
@@ARWest-bp4ybThank you. I have the first edition with no page 328! I wonder if the story about Arbiter giving it to John in the ultimate edition leaves room for it to have been John’s blue Strat refinished. It’s interesting how John is shown using it so much in the rehearsal (though it could just have been one day) and took it on tour and his blue Strat is not seen again. He also had in the studio for Revolver, but he never used it on stage as far as we know. He must have liked it and we know he liked the blue one. I suspect it’s the same guitar…
Back in the day if gear wasn’t stolen, left behind or destroyed by the band (see Jimi Hendrix) then they probably weren’t worth listening to. Sometimes ending a guitars life can be a blessing, but in George’s case it is a fitting tribute to an amazing artist.
George said he gave his Country Gent to Brian O'Hara of the Fourmost, and Brian O'Hara says he got a Country Gentleman from George and then later sold it to a guitar shop in Australia. There are pictures of Brian O'Hara playing a flip mute 63 Country Gent in the Fourmost. I think your theory about the destroyed Gretsch being the Tennessean makes a lot of sense, but it was probably just the one Gretsch that was destroyed.
Yup! George gave the dial mute Gent to Brian. Tons of pictures of Brian with his own flip mute Gent, then a few pics pop up with him using the dial Gent George gave him. I’m not 100% on the flip mute Gent being destroyed along with the Tenny, but makes sense why we never see the Gent again. And of course the Tenny is definitely bye bye lol. Interesting about him selling it to a guitar shop in Australia. That would be a cool guitar to find!
Great story. And i am thinking that I have a 1963 Tennessean. I have changed the tuning keys for blocking keys a few years ago but, of course, kept the original ones. And I have an Hofner bass too. As a true Beatles fan, maybe I have to put one of the Gretsch keys on my bass now 🙂
Great video. Im truly baffled at how little we know about the gent's. Clearly theres at least one still in existence. Apparently ringo has one...but i cant see him not sharing knowledge of it.if george fid give one away it seems it would be the dial up mutes version. Strange
Thanks for this excellent video. Amazing detective work by those involved. It is hard to fathom how Paul's '61 Hofner would end up with a Tennessean tuner and that Lucy would end up with a Tennessean switch tip but for the Tennessean being destroyed. The evidence is compelling and we know the Tennessean was never seen again after '65. I wonder if the thinking around the Country Gents is right. The history of those is key. The last time the first Country Gent is seen is late '63. The first time the Tennessean is seen is pretty much straight after that - late '63. The last time the second Country Gent is seen is...when? It was present during the '65 US tour (there are several photos attributed to 21 August '65 showing George playing it, for example). Is the Country Gent seen after that? During the Rubber Soul sessions? During the promo films in November '65? During the rehearsals for the '65 UK tour? The story about George giving a Gent away is very particular. O'Hara specifically referred to a Gent. Babiuk refers to it being the second Gent that was given away and refers to the first Gent as being the one run over (he also attributes it to months earlier which seems to be accepted as wrong). Do we actually know which Gent O'Hara received? What are the odds that George's first Gent was being taken out on tour as a spare two years after it was last seen, when George already had an ES-345, the Tennessean, his second 360/12 and access to a 160E? What are the odds that two Gretsches were destroyed despite all accounts being that a single Gretsch was destroyed? If we accept that the first Gent wasn't seen for two years by the time of the incident and that the Tennessean was destroyed and we know there is a story that a Gent was given away...surely a likely scenario is that the first Gent was no longer George's by late '65, that he had decided to move on from the second Gent and gave it to O'Hara at some point during September-November ''65 and that the Tennessean, perhaps the backup for the ES-345 (since George played the latter during the rehearsals), was the only guitar destroyed? Of course, it's also feasible that the Country Gent that O'Hara got was the first (and maybe it's more probable George would give away a Gent he hadn't used on stage since late '63, plus O'Hara supposedly is shown in photos with a dial mute Gent), that George really did still have the second Gent come late '65 and it was also destroyed. As far as I can tell, the Fourmost did a long season at the Palladium in '64 so do we even know that O'Hara received a Gent in '65? I think we need to determine when the second Gent was last seen. That might answer a lot of the uncertainty.
@@guitargearconnectionSo far I have not been able to I find a single photo showing any Gent in George’s possession from after the August ‘65 US tour - not in the Soul sessions, not in the November promo filming and not in the November tour rehearsals. Incidentally I have not yet found any photos of Tennessean post-dating the August US tour either. Clearly George had moved onto the ES-345 by the time of the promos and rehearsals. He used it exclusively and it and the second 360/12 are the only guitars in his hands in the rehearsal and December UK tour photos. I just don’t buy that the first Gent was anywhere near their touring rig by December ‘65 and I’m sceptical that the second Gent was too. Why would George have needed the ES-345, Tennessean, second Gent and 160E? That would have been unprecedented for him. He only ever had a main 6-string, a backup 6-string and a single 12-string, which he ultimately did on the tour (345, 160E and 360-12). I reckon the second Gent was gone by not long after the August US tour. Kind of hard to prove though. Is there any quote from George ever referring to losing two Gretchen’s that night? Or ever saying specifically that he lost a Gent that night? As far as I know, George only ever referred to losing a Gretsch that he liked. Even if the guys didn’t realise on the dark, wet road that night what was busted, I can’t believe that George didn’t know exactly what he lost and if we can pretty much prove that the Tennessean was destroyed, I think there’s very little evidence that a Gent also bought the farm. So, next question - do we know for sure which Gent O’Hara got? It is reported that photos depict O’Hara with both a screw down mute and flip up mute Gent at different times.
Ok, nice catch and connecting the dots - or bits- as it were 😀 but yeah, new mystery: what about the CG "#1"??? Knowing George’s thing for Gretsch/his guitars, I can't believe its absence went unnoticed - mind-altering substances notwithstanding 😉
I wonder after the tuning key change did Paul have tuning issues it looks like its held in place by one screw. This is a total tangent on the night of Eddie Cochran's fatal car accident his gretsch was ejected from the ford consul taxi and recovered from the scene . Dave Dee from Dave Dee, Dozie, Beaky, Mick and Tich was one of the first on the scene as a police cadet. The guitar was taken to the police station and was there for about a month before returning to the USA
Probably both like you said. But most say just the one fell off the car that night. If I lived around there now I would try to find the spot, maybe after 60 years, just maybe you might find some left over parts still there.
Don't forget Paul's Rosetti Solid 7 that he had in Hamburg in 1960 and one day the three Beatles and Pete Best with probably a few beers in them, decided on smashing the guitar by jumping up and down on it! lol
Yup! Ringo was gifted a 62’ Tennessean that George’s estate had. His wife and son gave it to Ringo as a thanks for playing in the Concert For George. No picutes have come up with George actually playing it. I think it was just a spare he was given or came across.
I think it was one of George's Country Gentlemens that was strapped to the back of his car that fell off and got crushed. I know the feeling. I had a 1954 Stratocaster go out the back of my brother's station wagon when we forgot to run it up. Right, on that tuning key difference.
So then....if it was the tenny that was smashed, then are both Gents out there floating around? He gave one away to Foremost...which went to some store..and where is the other one that we thought was smashed? Does the estate still have that one?
Sir Paul McCartney likes to tell the story of Elvis' bass player Bill Black had the big standup bass that Paul now owns that when Elvis, Scotty, and Bill would be flying down the road with that big bass strapped to the roof of the car. lol
Wow. I'd always read the Tennessean was stolen, possibly at the same time as Paul's Hofner (at Twickenham) which we now know to be incorrect. Sad to think it may have been destroyed.
Strange that in 65 with all their Money by that point that they were still strapping guitars on the outside of vehicles. What I would like to know is where did george harrison's gibson 345es go to, it was used real short time on tour supposedly, and a couple promo videos. Then seemed to disappear. I had also heard some story that it was on Loan from Sounds incorporated BAND who they toured with at the time. That is a detective story in itself for sure. Given their money, George could have replaced them at any time he wanted. They would just be Rock and Roll hall of fame guitars now anyways.
George had the ES-345 before the tour as it’s in the promo films made on 23 November. There’s some sonic evidence of the ES-345 being on some Rubber Soul-period recordings. George could not have got the ES-345 to replace the lost Gretsch. Do we know when George gave away the Gent? When was the Gent last seen? Perhaps he gave away the Gent, got the 345 then the Tennessean was destroyed, hence him sticking to the 345 on the British tour.
@@andrewkemp1882 Any particular songs etc on Rubber Soul. I will be glad if Niles Martin does what he did with Revolver for Soul, and does some of the earlier songs too. Even though I felt Taxman was a Bit BASS heavy, all the rest sounded pretty good, for sure.
@@ksharpe10It can’t be proved as I don’t think there are ant photos of the sessions but, for an example of a good argument in favour, there’s a great breakdown on RUclips about the guitars on Day Tripper. The 345 seems to be there.
@@andrewkemp1882 I saw that it really is a compelling Awakening video. Surprised no one has asked Paul or Ringo while they are still alive about which guitars were lost/gretschs, and what happened to the es345. Guess Gear/FAB junkies never think of this stuff. Or that fellow that did the GEAR BOOK.
Yeah it was a 62’. I don’t know how it sold for what it did at auction. Not much history behind it besides Harrison family gifting it to him. Just a random guitar George had in his collection, or something they could have bought for Ringo in honor of his participation of The Concert For George. Regardless, it wasn’t a “Beatle”instrument.
Indeed! @@BMeanies Thinking about it now, it's most likely that Tennessean was a replacement for the one that got smashed. George was really fond of that guitar, started using it exclusively until they got their Casinos.
Interesting story, again I'm impressed by the investigation work you've done here. When I thought there was nothing more about the Beatles I hadn't heard about at some point, twice you've surprised me. It's been like watching Dr. Mark Felton's WWII stories. You have a new subscriber, then I'll check out your other videos little by little. So which guitar(s) was/ were destroyed? I believe the Tennessean was. It's unlikely that George would give Paul a tuning key from his perfectly fine condition Tennessean as a permanent replacement (or at all). And the other guitar too? Maybe. Do any photo/ footage exist of George playing the other one after this? If not, I guess both were destroyed. If not, I find it likely that both were destroyed.
Glad you enjoyed it! No unfortunately no other pictures past November 1965 exists of George’s flip mute Gent or the Tenny. But I’ve heard some more pictures have surfaced at auction that might solve some answers we are all looking for!!!
@@guitargearconnectionCan you direct me to the photos of the second Gent in November '65? I've not been able to find any so far. Are they from the Rubber Soul sessions or the tour rehearsals or somewhere else?
That was given to George someone time in the late 80’s. Olivia & Dhani gave it to Ringo as a thanks gift for playing Concert For George. It’s a 62’ & of course a whole different serial.
It all depends on how hard it would be to get replacements for the guitars at the time but as big as the band was you would think that they could afford a proper vehicle to transport equipment... lol and I do wonder if they cherished their equipment or thought of them as tools.
It's hard to imagine today how disorganized the Beatles organization was in that era. By the time of this event, they were a huge worldwide act. To think they would strap the guitars to the roof of a vehicle is incomprehensible today. And the people working for them were mostly incompetent barflys from Liverpool. Why didn't they use a truck or a van? They had the money.
Really unfortunate that the Country Gentleman was destroyed. Those guitars were never cheap. Why did Bicknell think strapping them to the back of the car on a dark, stormy night was a good idea?
lol when I first was reading the stories, the whole thing didn’t add up. I agree, why the hell would anyone strap a guitar outside of a car in December? Let alone everyone says it was raining lol. 😂 Either these people just make up whatever stories they wanted to, or the Beatles just so happened to surround themselves with so real smart people lol
@@guitargearconnection someone must have been high that night. I mean, who knows what they had inside the trunk if they had to strap those guitars to the outside of the van? Also, i have to confess, I hadn't yet watched the whole video when I posted this comment. I really hope the Tennessean wasn't the one destroyed that night. Nothing against the Country Gentleman. I just like the way the Tenny sounds better.
The story I always have heard about George's country gentleman was that after they w were on ed sullivan was everybody thought it was black and everyone was wanting a black one when in fact it was walnut. And after that his country gentleman was stolen. Gretch made him a black one with gold hardware and two baffles instead of one. The Tennessean was bought before he got the black country gentleman.
Great eye for detail! This could perhaps explain why we see George using the ES-345 for the December 10, 1965 show at the Hammersmith Odeon, although perhaps he might have wanted to bring it out for the 1965 UK tour anyways given he was playing it on the November 20 rehearsals. There's got to be more photos from the 9 shows of the tour out there somewhere that would help provide further evidence!
Thanks for that mattiboo! I’m hoping eventually some more photos will surface and answer many more of these questions. But till then, the mystery & wonder is just as entertaining!
mattiboo i miss your covers
@@guitargearconnection Agreed - love a good new Beatles theory! I am wondering if you have any extra detail on how why the common knowledge is that the County Gent was destroyed? George's quote just mentioned a Gretsch (albeit only one being destroyed, you'd think he'd notice if two were gone by the time they unloaded everything), but not which model. Totally plausible that if one guitar was destroyed that it was the Tennessean given your reporting, but then make you wonder what happened to the supposedly destroyed Country Gent!
@@mattibooan article at the time mentioned, “a Gretsch Countryman.” Also, the truck driver saying “banjo” made some people think Gent due to the leather backpad on the back of the Gent.
@s2seltaeb Yeah but mind you, folks commonly use 'banjo' as a catch-all colloquially. I'm persuaded the Tennessee and was destroyed and cannobalised, but that leaves the CG to question - simply can't believe George wouldn't have noticed it missing.
60 years on and mysteries still arise!
Wow! what a great video! The butterbean tuner from the tenny is pretty compelling evidence that it was actually the Tenny that got destroyed, Mal making the connection between the accident and the tuner on the Hofner is an amazing detail that you noticed. Friggin fantastic , Paul! Great job! I wonder if eventually we'll find out that the story of Harrison giving away the Country Gentleman is true . Maybe THAT guitar will be tracked down too! After all this time it's amazing that truths are still being uncovered breaking the myths and shaping a new understanding of Beatle history! Again really great work, Paul!
Thanks Perry! I too am hoping the flip Gent might possibly show up one day. But I really was hoping the Tenny would come up eventually, but that thing is definitely gone!
Concur, Perry!
I remember reading this account years ago; they were driving at night and a truck flashed his lights at them from behind. They pulled off the road and the trucker said that one of those banjo looking things fell off the back of their vehicle. In the headlights they examined the remains and Ringo determined it to be Georges' spare Gretsch. Singular, one guitar. I don't remember what book that was in.
Paul this is legitimately the coolest Beatles discovery I’ve ever learned about!! Incredible work and undoubtedly an important finding in the Beatles’ musical evolution!
Thanks Liam!!!!
Great job! An important consequence of this discovery is that this guitar was never used for recording again. There is also pictures of Beatles gear from the backstage (The Gamount, Sheffield 8th December, Beatles Book Monthly# 116, 2:28 on this video) where no any Gretsch guitars are visible.
Great eye on the pick up selector on Lucy too. It's clear that the ring was missing but I've never looked closely enough to see the switch was a Gretsch.
That was all 5_Oh_Guitars on instagram! I had never noticed it either. He pointed it out months ago, then when the tuning key surfaced, I had remembered the switch tip!
Absolutely amazing work Paul! I might have to get my hands on Mal's biography some day, it sounds fantastic!! I'm not sure if you've seen the video, but a youtuber called Nick Martellaro recently unearthed George's serial number for the Tennessean by enhancing original negatives! If only the Tenny was still around to BE found. Again, fantastic work Paul! :)
Thanks Luca! I was hoping for a lost Gretsch project too 🤣
Nick has some great content!👍
@@guitargearconnection Imagine what a year it would be with 2 new Beatle instruments being unearthed!
I never noticed the odd tuner on the first Hofner. Such a shame that George lost both Gretsches, most accounts only mention the Gent. Well done as usual Paul!👍👍
I honestly never noticed it much until recently.
And thank you!!!
That's a very strong argument and this Hofner discovery is answering even more questions. Excellent analysis and video Paul!
Thanks Brian!!!
Ooh I think it hurts more to learn that both the country gent and tenssean were both destroyed. Tbh it makes so much sense why George ended up switching to the es-345 and later casino/sg for his main gigging guitars with the Beatles. Wise if he still had one gretsch (tenssean or country gent) I believed he would’ve been more likely to use them for the remaining tour of 65. Incredible find as always Paul.
Thanks as always Luke! Ugh I know it pains me too. I honestly was hoping the Tenny would surface with some kind of lost Gretsch project hahaha
The ES-345 belonged to the Moody Blues
I think you might be right! You’re incredible at finding those little details!
I once spoke with a guy who worked at Gretsch in the 60's. He said that after the Beatles hit, they made George a CG and the workers all signed the underneath of the top before it was completed.
That’s awesome!
I don't know why but I just love these rabbit holes!
Thank you!!
Glad you like them!
@@guitargearconnection 🕳️🐇
It was a pleasure to listen to such a well written and presented piece. Facts were presented with equal clarity irrespective of whether they originated 60 years or 6 days ago and the speculation was intelligently conceived, the human factors respectfully considered. We can't confirm, possibly no one ever will but that's not the point. I've often thought about how I would have tied those guitars on the trunk of the car. I'd have put the Rickenbacker on first because it's a flat case and then the Gretsch(s). Does anyone know what happened to John's Framus Hootennany from Help?
I have the same doubt, the Framus whereabouts!
Awesome video and well researched as always Paul!
Thanks Gio!!!
More fascinating guitarchaeology! Seems like we can be pretty confident the Tennessean didn't survive, though it end up a little too far in the realm of speculation to say the Country Gentleman joined it (George would've noticed 2 missing guitars even if Mal tried to pass it off as one).
Great vid. I’m learning new stuff every day! TYFP!
Awesome! Thank you!
Gotta be both; always knew about the first Country Gentleman but this video with evidence makes perfect sense. Thank you!
Me being a Beatle gear head since the 80's, this is some very intriguing stuff! I always thought it was the Gent that got smashed and the Tennessean was stolen along with his second 360-12.
I had wondered if it was the Tenny. You confirmed my suspicions. Thinking about it, I wonder if the first Gent might’ve been stolen before the Beatles’ ‘63 Christmas shows, as we don’t hear of it after that. The Tenny had been bought as a replacement for that Gent. Finally, George gave a Gretsch away to Brian O’Hara of The Fourmost. I think this was the second Gent. Once again, knocked it right outta the park with your fact checks, Paul! I’d like to see you tackle what happened to John’s blue Strat next!
Thanks Jacob! Kills me too it was the Tenny. Small chance the flip Gent still exists! Lost Gretsch project hahaha
The Lennon’s Strat became the black Strat, showed in photos from Hammersmith Odeon In Dec/65 and inside Revolver Sessions in Apr/66. Right Paul?
Great video! Amazing that we are still finding little clues even today.
There’s a story somewhere where someone went to Ringo’s house and played the Rickenbacker 1996 and - they claim - George’s Country Gent. Maybe Ringo still has it?
Regarding John’s Strat, there’s a compelling rumor that he had it refinished to black with a matching headstock. The photos of that black Strat show that it doesn’t seem to have a Fender logo. Also, in the photos of John holding a Strat in ‘67, he’s using George’s strap. Maybe the subject of another video!
I think that was Mark Hudson commenting about those guitars on the Choose Love album circa 2005. I think it was the 1996 and the ‘62 Tennessean that the Harrison Estate gifted Ringo. (So not the ‘63 Beatle Tennessean).
I agree about the black strat having no logo on the headstock. I also believe it has wide fret dot spacing at the 12th fret, and is therefore not a ‘64 as some believe. I think John’s strat got refinished. Possibly crudely, in advance of this tour.
According to Beatles Gear the black Strat was given to John by Ivan Arbitor because he knew they liked black instruments. The only photos of him playing it were from a rehearsal session for their '65 UK tour, where George was using his new ES-345.
@@ARWest-bp4yb True but the black Strat was amongst the band's instruments on tour too. Do you have the page reference in Babiuk for Arbitor giving John the black Strat?
@@andrewkemp1882 Sure, page 328 in the Ultimate edition. The only pix of him actually playing it are from a rehearsal session for their '65 UK tour, with George playing his new ES-345.
@@ARWest-bp4ybThank you. I have the first edition with no page 328! I wonder if the story about Arbiter giving it to John in the ultimate edition leaves room for it to have been John’s blue Strat refinished. It’s interesting how John is shown using it so much in the rehearsal (though it could just have been one day) and took it on tour and his blue Strat is not seen again. He also had in the studio for Revolver, but he never used it on stage as far as we know. He must have liked it and we know he liked the blue one. I suspect it’s the same guitar…
Holy crap! Detective Paul!
Back in the day if gear wasn’t stolen, left behind or destroyed by the band (see Jimi Hendrix)
then they probably weren’t worth listening to. Sometimes ending a guitars life can be a blessing, but in George’s case it is a fitting tribute to an amazing artist.
George said he gave his Country Gent to Brian O'Hara of the Fourmost, and Brian O'Hara says he got a Country Gentleman from George and then later sold it to a guitar shop in Australia. There are pictures of Brian O'Hara playing a flip mute 63 Country Gent in the Fourmost. I think your theory about the destroyed Gretsch being the Tennessean makes a lot of sense, but it was probably just the one Gretsch that was destroyed.
Yup! George gave the dial mute Gent to Brian. Tons of pictures of Brian with his own flip mute Gent, then a few pics pop up with him using the dial Gent George gave him. I’m not 100% on the flip mute Gent being destroyed along with the Tenny, but makes sense why we never see the Gent again. And of course the Tenny is definitely bye bye lol. Interesting about him selling it to a guitar shop in Australia. That would be a cool guitar to find!
Great story. And i am thinking that I have a 1963 Tennessean. I have changed the tuning keys for blocking keys a few years ago but, of course, kept the original ones. And I have an Hofner bass too. As a true Beatles fan, maybe I have to put one of the Gretsch keys on my bass now 🙂
Great video. Im truly baffled at how little we know about the gent's. Clearly theres at least one still in existence. Apparently ringo has one...but i cant see him not sharing knowledge of it.if george fid give one away it seems it would be the dial up mutes version. Strange
Crazy after all these years and we are still learning new things!
Oh boy...... Rip Tennessean
5:00 - incidentally it was Johns acoustic that was taken ...he fibbed to George that it was Georges was gone!
It was most likely both the Tennessean, because of the tuning key and selector switch.
Thanks for this excellent video. Amazing detective work by those involved. It is hard to fathom how Paul's '61 Hofner would end up with a Tennessean tuner and that Lucy would end up with a Tennessean switch tip but for the Tennessean being destroyed. The evidence is compelling and we know the Tennessean was never seen again after '65. I wonder if the thinking around the Country Gents is right. The history of those is key. The last time the first Country Gent is seen is late '63. The first time the Tennessean is seen is pretty much straight after that - late '63. The last time the second Country Gent is seen is...when? It was present during the '65 US tour (there are several photos attributed to 21 August '65 showing George playing it, for example). Is the Country Gent seen after that? During the Rubber Soul sessions? During the promo films in November '65? During the rehearsals for the '65 UK tour? The story about George giving a Gent away is very particular. O'Hara specifically referred to a Gent. Babiuk refers to it being the second Gent that was given away and refers to the first Gent as being the one run over (he also attributes it to months earlier which seems to be accepted as wrong). Do we actually know which Gent O'Hara received? What are the odds that George's first Gent was being taken out on tour as a spare two years after it was last seen, when George already had an ES-345, the Tennessean, his second 360/12 and access to a 160E? What are the odds that two Gretsches were destroyed despite all accounts being that a single Gretsch was destroyed? If we accept that the first Gent wasn't seen for two years by the time of the incident and that the Tennessean was destroyed and we know there is a story that a Gent was given away...surely a likely scenario is that the first Gent was no longer George's by late '65, that he had decided to move on from the second Gent and gave it to O'Hara at some point during September-November ''65 and that the Tennessean, perhaps the backup for the ES-345 (since George played the latter during the rehearsals), was the only guitar destroyed? Of course, it's also feasible that the Country Gent that O'Hara got was the first (and maybe it's more probable George would give away a Gent he hadn't used on stage since late '63, plus O'Hara supposedly is shown in photos with a dial mute Gent), that George really did still have the second Gent come late '65 and it was also destroyed. As far as I can tell, the Fourmost did a long season at the Palladium in '64 so do we even know that O'Hara received a Gent in '65? I think we need to determine when the second Gent was last seen. That might answer a lot of the uncertainty.
Thank you appreciate that!
@@guitargearconnectionSo far I have not been able to I find a single photo showing any Gent in George’s possession from after the August ‘65 US tour - not in the Soul sessions, not in the November promo filming and not in the November tour rehearsals. Incidentally I have not yet found any photos of Tennessean post-dating the August US tour either. Clearly George had moved onto the ES-345 by the time of the promos and rehearsals. He used it exclusively and it and the second 360/12 are the only guitars in his hands in the rehearsal and December UK tour photos. I just don’t buy that the first Gent was anywhere near their touring rig by December ‘65 and I’m sceptical that the second Gent was too. Why would George have needed the ES-345, Tennessean, second Gent and 160E? That would have been unprecedented for him. He only ever had a main 6-string, a backup 6-string and a single 12-string, which he ultimately did on the tour (345, 160E and 360-12). I reckon the second Gent was gone by not long after the August US tour. Kind of hard to prove though. Is there any quote from George ever referring to losing two Gretchen’s that night? Or ever saying specifically that he lost a Gent that night? As far as I know, George only ever referred to losing a Gretsch that he liked. Even if the guys didn’t realise on the dark, wet road that night what was busted, I can’t believe that George didn’t know exactly what he lost and if we can pretty much prove that the Tennessean was destroyed, I think there’s very little evidence that a Gent also bought the farm. So, next question - do we know for sure which Gent O’Hara got? It is reported that photos depict O’Hara with both a screw down mute and flip up mute Gent at different times.
The silver shiny metal tuning key was from the Gretsch Tennessean? And it was used on the 61 Hofner since 1965?
Yup!
Ok, nice catch and connecting the dots - or bits- as it were 😀 but yeah, new mystery: what about the CG "#1"??? Knowing George’s thing for Gretsch/his guitars, I can't believe its absence went unnoticed - mind-altering substances notwithstanding 😉
Thank you!
George ended up giving his first Dial-Up CG to Brian O’Hara from The Fourmost.
@@guitargearconnection thanks! Can sleep tonight :-)
I wonder after the tuning key change did Paul have tuning issues it looks like its held in place by one screw. This is a total tangent on the night of Eddie Cochran's fatal car accident his gretsch was ejected from the ford consul taxi and recovered from the scene . Dave Dee from Dave Dee, Dozie, Beaky, Mick and Tich was one of the first on the scene as a police cadet. The guitar was taken to the police station and was there for about a month before returning to the USA
Great Sherlock! Very cool info Paul.
Thanks!😊
GREAT VIDEO!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!!
Probably both like you said. But most say just the one fell off the car that night. If I lived around there now I would try to find the spot, maybe after 60 years, just maybe you might find some left over parts still there.
Don't forget Paul's Rosetti Solid 7 that he had in Hamburg in 1960 and one day the three Beatles and Pete Best with probably a few beers in them, decided on smashing the guitar by jumping up and down on it! lol
I read somewhere Ringo has one ofGeorges Gretschs and a Rickenbacker of Johns.
Yup! Ringo was gifted a 62’ Tennessean that George’s estate had. His wife and son gave it to Ringo as a thanks for playing in the Concert For George. No picutes have come up with George actually playing it. I think it was just a spare he was given or came across.
@@guitargearconnectionI wonder if George got the ‘62 at some stage to replace his missing - and, it seems, destroyed - Tennessean.
I think it was one of George's Country Gentlemens that was strapped to the back of his car that fell off and got crushed. I know the feeling. I had a 1954 Stratocaster go out the back of my brother's station wagon when we forgot to run it up. Right, on that tuning key difference.
I remember hearing it was one guitar that fell and with all the evidence you presented, it leads me to believe it was in fact the Tennesseean.
So then....if it was the tenny that was smashed, then are both Gents out there floating around? He gave one away to Foremost...which went to some store..and where is the other one that we thought was smashed? Does the estate still have that one?
Nope! His flip mute Gent is never seen again!
@@guitargearconnection so, both of the Gents are 'out there' then?
Wow I always thought george had just took the pickup selector cover off his les paul, i didnt know he put the gretch one on it
Interesting update. Definitely unfortunate fate for the Gretschs. But I wonder where his Duo Jet went?
His estate still has it! Though GH had given it to Klaus Voorman, who had it for a number of years.
It's amazing that you would strap a guitar to the outside of a vehicle. It doesn't sound too smart.
And in December in the rain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sir Paul McCartney likes to tell the story of Elvis' bass player Bill Black had the big standup bass that Paul now owns that when Elvis, Scotty, and Bill would be flying down the road with that big bass strapped to the roof of the car. lol
Great video! Those guitars weren’t seen again!
An American pronunciation of Glasgow is always worth a thumbs up 😂
Wow. I'd always read the Tennessean was stolen, possibly at the same time as Paul's Hofner (at Twickenham) which we now know to be incorrect. Sad to think it may have been destroyed.
Yes but the guitar was seen in the studio during the white album rehearsals in 1968. It is said that it was stolen from EMI in 1968 or 1969 😮
Unfortunately no evidence of it being at EMI. There are no pictures or mention of it past December 1965.
Strange that in 65 with all their Money by that point that they were still strapping guitars on the outside of vehicles. What I would like to know is where did george harrison's gibson 345es go to, it was used real short time on tour supposedly, and a couple promo videos. Then seemed to disappear. I had also heard some story that it was on Loan from Sounds incorporated BAND who they toured with at the time. That is a detective story in itself for sure. Given their money, George could have replaced them at any time he wanted. They would just be Rock and Roll hall of fame guitars now anyways.
George had the ES-345 before the tour as it’s in the promo films made on 23 November. There’s some sonic evidence of the ES-345 being on some Rubber Soul-period recordings. George could not have got the ES-345 to replace the lost Gretsch. Do we know when George gave away the Gent? When was the Gent last seen? Perhaps he gave away the Gent, got the 345 then the Tennessean was destroyed, hence him sticking to the 345 on the British tour.
@@andrewkemp1882 Any particular songs etc on Rubber Soul. I will be glad if Niles Martin does what he did with Revolver for Soul, and does some of the earlier songs too. Even though I felt Taxman was a Bit BASS heavy, all the rest sounded pretty good, for sure.
@@ksharpe10It can’t be proved as I don’t think there are ant photos of the sessions but, for an example of a good argument in favour, there’s a great breakdown on RUclips about the guitars on Day Tripper. The 345 seems to be there.
@@andrewkemp1882 I saw that it really is a compelling Awakening video. Surprised no one has asked Paul or Ringo while they are still alive about which guitars were lost/gretschs, and what happened to the es345. Guess Gear/FAB junkies never think of this stuff. Or that fellow that did the GEAR BOOK.
What about the Tennessean that showed up in Ringo’s auction a few years ago??
That one did not have white outlines on the painted f holes, and was therefore an earlier model. (I think 1962.)
Yeah it was a 62’. I don’t know how it sold for what it did at auction. Not much history behind it besides Harrison family gifting it to him. Just a random guitar George had in his collection, or something they could have bought for Ringo in honor of his participation of The Concert For George. Regardless, it wasn’t a “Beatle”instrument.
@@guitargearconnectionhmmmmm…the plot thickens! Thanks
Indeed! @@BMeanies Thinking about it now, it's most likely that Tennessean was a replacement for the one that got smashed. George was really fond of that guitar, started using it exclusively until they got their Casinos.
@@jsullivan2112Never noticed the different sound holes…I’m a self described Beatle guitar geek too! Thanks very much
What a fantastic video have a wonderful day Paul also what is your favorite year from the 2010s ❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊
Interesting story, again I'm impressed by the investigation work you've done here. When I thought there was nothing more about the Beatles I hadn't heard about at some point, twice you've surprised me. It's been like watching Dr. Mark Felton's WWII stories. You have a new subscriber, then I'll check out your other videos little by little. So which guitar(s) was/ were destroyed? I believe the Tennessean was. It's unlikely that George would give Paul a tuning key from his perfectly fine condition Tennessean as a permanent replacement (or at all). And the other guitar too? Maybe. Do any photo/ footage exist of George playing the other one after this? If not, I guess both were destroyed. If not, I find it likely that both were destroyed.
Glad you enjoyed it!
No unfortunately no other pictures past November 1965 exists of George’s flip mute Gent or the Tenny. But I’ve heard some more pictures have surfaced at auction that might solve some answers we are all looking for!!!
@@guitargearconnection That's interesting news. I hope those pictures (if they exist) will be published so we can all see them.
@@guitargearconnectionCan you direct me to the photos of the second Gent in November '65? I've not been able to find any so far. Are they from the Rubber Soul sessions or the tour rehearsals or somewhere else?
Brilliant super sleuth work ' sounds like the Tennessean definitely fell off too '
Thank you!
Which one did he buy in Benton illinois when he visited his sister Louise in the summer of 63
That was his Rickenbacker 425!
@@guitargearconnection thanks,i wasnt sure
Is it possible that the ‘65 Rick 12 was destroyed?
No he was using it during those shows. But I wouldn’t doubt that one got destroyed at the hands of Mal too lol
No, that guitar was used throughout the ‘66 tours. It’s the two Gretsches that we literally never see again after December 2, 1965.
So what did George play on that Scottish gig?
The ES-345! And his 360/12
wait so they were both destroyed ?
That’s what I believe!
Now let’s find out what happened to his 2nd 12 string.
Agree!!!
What about the Tennessean Ringo auctioned off??
That was given to George someone time in the late 80’s. Olivia & Dhani gave it to Ringo as a thanks gift for playing Concert For George. It’s a 62’ & of course a whole different serial.
It all depends on how hard it would be to get replacements for the guitars at the time but as big as the band was you would think that they could afford a proper vehicle to transport equipment... lol and I do wonder if they cherished their equipment or thought of them as tools.
It was a different time. I read once that the international rock trucking industry started the moment The Beatles stopped touring.
It's hard to imagine today how disorganized the Beatles organization was in that era. By the time of this event, they were a huge worldwide act. To think they would strap the guitars to the roof of a vehicle is incomprehensible today. And the people working for them were mostly incompetent barflys from Liverpool. Why didn't they use a truck or a van? They had the money.
Having lived in the 60's it all makes sense to me. I read somewhere that the rock touring industry started the day after The Beatles stopped touring.
Ringo has the Country Gentleman, George specifically said he gave it away.
George gave away the dial up mute. No record of him giving away the flip mute & no record of Ringo having that guitar.
That’s not the case
Just FYI the Flip up Gent serial number is 60740
Really unfortunate that the Country Gentleman was destroyed. Those guitars were never cheap. Why did Bicknell think strapping them to the back of the car on a dark, stormy night was a good idea?
lol when I first was reading the stories, the whole thing didn’t add up. I agree, why the hell would anyone strap a guitar outside of a car in December? Let alone everyone says it was raining lol. 😂
Either these people just make up whatever stories they wanted to, or the Beatles just so happened to surround themselves with so real smart people lol
@@guitargearconnection someone must have been high that night. I mean, who knows what they had inside the trunk if they had to strap those guitars to the outside of the van? Also, i have to confess, I hadn't yet watched the whole video when I posted this comment. I really hope the Tennessean wasn't the one destroyed that night. Nothing against the Country Gentleman. I just like the way the Tenny sounds better.
I heard it was only the Tennesseean Gretsch that was destroyed, not both.
Have to correct myself. I’ve never heard anyone call a tuner, or tuning peg, a tuning “key” before.
The story I always have heard about George's country gentleman was that after they w were on ed sullivan was everybody thought it was black and everyone was wanting a black one when in fact it was walnut. And after that his country gentleman was stolen. Gretch made him a black one with gold hardware and two baffles instead of one. The Tennessean was bought before he got the black country gentleman.
it must of been amazing feeling to be playing shit guitars to having any guitar u wanted
Who cares I don’t