If Oswald did not shoot Tippit, he has to have been framed. The people framing him would have had to know, all in advance: - Oswald would immediately flee the TSBD - Oswald would successfully escape the plaza - Oswald would definitely go specifically to Oak Cliff - Oswald owned a revolver - exactly where the revolver was - Oswald would obtain the revolver - Oswald would retain the revolver - an imposter who looks so much like Oswald he can fool witnesses (including the one he exchanged words with) needs to be hanging around 10th and Patton - the imposter can be certain Oswald is nearby - the imposter needs to be wearing a jacket just as Oswald decides to put one on at the last minute - a cop will be driving at 10th and Patton at exactly the right moment for Oswald's known movements to make it possible to plausibly place him at the crime scene - the cop won't simply outdraw and capture the imposter - nobody will ever see the imposter again - nobody will ever see Oswald anywhere else during the shooting - every witness in this quiet suburb can be counted on to lie about what they saw as long as they live - the way to deal with those who can't is to threaten and coerce them, thus confirming a conspiracy exists to each one of them - they can safely count on exactly the right ballistics experts on the FBI and Dallas PD to obey illegal orders to falsify the evidence and make themselves loyal accessories to murder - they can safely count on every cop who is among the first to arrive at the theater to perjure himself - they can safely count on scores of Dallas PD officers to be onboard for helping in the successful execution-style murder of a brother officer with a wife and three children - there is any point in risking everything killing a cop at all when Kennedy is already dead, Oswald is already on the run and if anything goes wrong here they've just gone to a lot of trouble to end up confirming a conspiracy exists....
This is exactly right. But believing in conspiracies is way more interesting however implausibly impossible. This is why the conspiracy theories get more outlandish as time passes.
@@dropway9108 You ever notice conspiracy theorists never explain why it wouldn't have been safer and more practical to just use a marksman who can peel off his disguise and disappear instead of approaching and recruiting scores of police, FBI, Secret Service, military personnel, Oswald family members, staffs at embassies in another country, x-ray technicians, ballistics experts, shoe store clerks, housewives, reporters, whole commissions, and persuading them all to obey illegal orders to commit crimes and make themselves all loyal accessories to murder and treason?
I don’t think Oswald shot Tippit and that the Tippit murder is due to some conflict Tippit had with the killer. On the Dallas Police tapes another cop asks if they think the Tippit shooting had anything to do with the presidential assassination and the answer was “we don’t know”. I think the Dallas police wanted to get someone for the murder of a fellow policeman. The number of events needed to be coordinated to frame Oswald for the Tippit killing as indicated by the current narrative needed so many things to go right that the overall success has about the same probability or less than if the Tippit killing has nothing to do with the JFK assassination.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot So if it was not Oswald who killed Tippit then we are back to someone who looks shockingly like Oswald. If there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, and the killing of Tippit has nothing to do with the JFK shooter(s) is it simply mere coincidence the shooter bore a striking resemblance to LHO? Also, we know Oswald was in the movie theater when apprehended. So where was he when the Tippit murder took place if he is not the shooter? He must have been in the vicinity, unless he teleported from his boarding house room to the theatre after the lookalike Oswald was spotted acting very suspiciously (hiding in doorways, hiding in stores as sirens wailed by in response the to Tippit shooting), and this coincidental doppelganger just happened to go into the same theatre where LHO was already sitting.
@@dropway9108 - He could have gone directly to the theater from the rooming house. I’m not too impressed with the eyewitnesses especially given how the lineups were conducted. Why would Oswald walk almost a mile to where the Tippit murder happened and not continue in that general direction? I think Oswald was involved in some way in the assassination but not the Tippit murder.
I moved to Dallas 5 years ago. Being fascinated with the JFK murder, I started asking questions and visiting all these places on weekends. Soon after, I got mysterious calls threatening me and to quit asking questions. Another time, I parked at the open lot across from this house on a sunny Saturday afternoon. A black SUV drove past behind me and someone threw a big rock breaking my rear window. A few weeks later, I visited the Egyptian on Mockingbird and was asking about Jack Ruby. Some old guy in his 70’s got up from bar and told me “best you stop digging around boy” and left. Soon after I left the restaurant and crossed the street to my car parked at DART station. I noticed 2 grown men in a dark car near my car staring at me. I got so scared that I walked past the car. They got off their car and followed me. I managed to hop on the train and home to Richardson. The next day, I took an Uber to the station to pick up my car. Anyway, I stopped asking around or visiting these places. I believe this murder was a conspiracy including many powerful people in Dallas and living members of those involved are still scared of the truth coming out.
@@amberjean1107 Not anymore. I believe it was s well orchestrated assassination involving LBJ, Oil Barrons, Dallas PD, CIA. And all because they couldn’t stand a young, handsome, smart liberal who was making waves.
having lived in Dallas all my life I never really put much thought into this, so thanks for putting the work into a genuinely interesting experiment. admittedly I've never really taken an interest in the Kenedy assassination outside of bringing out of town friends to the museum but now I might start looking into it
Thanks. It’s really fascinating. There is unfortunately so much bad and/or purposefully misleading information about it (on both sides). I like sticking to the incontrovertible facts and then creating if-then bits of analysis. Like here... given the facts, if Oswald killed J.D. Tippit then he (apparently) had to run.
JD Tippet wasn’t shot dead at 1:15pm. he was declared dead at 1:15pm @ nearby Methodist Hospital. Tippit was shot approximately 1:06PM. Further, a man fitting Oswalds description was seen briskly walking west on E. 10th at the intersection with N. Marseilles minutes before the shooting.
As I said in the video, the point was to establish how quickly he would have had to have travelled on foot to get there on time. People who identified Oswald as being at the scene of the shooting would be completely unaware of how he got there (car). The official investigations have always maintained he could have walked, “at a brisk pace.” I did not find that to be true in actually trying it.
You have the shooting at 1:15? Is there a particular source you use for that? If you back track it, and take the witness evidence from those on hand, that's a little bit later than those witnesses called it. . The WC placed it at 1:16 as that was the time the call came in on the police radio dispatch, and he "walked briskly" after leaving "around 1:00pm" in order to give him over quarter of an hour to cover the distance. But... Helen Markham (who saw the shooter "walking" prior to the shooting) placed the shots at around 1:06/1:07 having left her home a few minutes earlier at "Just after 1PM" Domingo Benavides waited for the shooter to leave, then waited "another 2 minutes" then came out to try and help Tippit when he realised that was a no-go he tried to use the Police radio but couldn;t get it working. Around that time TF Bowley drives up and sees what's going on. He diligently checks his watch and notices that it is 1:10pm and goes over to help Tippit. After he realises that this is in vain, he takes over from Benavides on the police radio in Tippits cruiser, and makes a call to the Dispatch which is logged by the Police at coming in at 1:16 (The time the WC has as the time of the shooting...) I'm no runner... I probaly could do to be, but... as someone who does know what they are talking about, and has run the route, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. IF the witnesses (Earlene Roberts had Oswald outside the house around 1:03) were right and the shooting happened no earlier than the two minute gap between Benavides hiding and Bowley checking his watch, or 1:08... heck, lets say Bowleys watch was out by a couple of minutes and call 1:10PM for the shooting... what sort of pace would Oswald (not nown to be a "runner") have needed to hit, and how likely would it be that wearing normal work shoes and three upper layers of clothing that he would not be a physical wreck by the time he covered the distance in under 7 minutes? I'm not going to insult you and ask if he could have done it in the circa 5 minutes the witnesses have it at.
@andrewtomlinson5237 Markham is a horrible witness but she did reveal one important fact. She said she was waiting for a bus to come at 1:06 PM and she said the shooting happened before the bus got there. Two other witnesses said they clocked it at 1:06 also. The Ambulance got there very fast and Jeana Davis said that Officer Croy was on the scene before Oswald turned the corner on Patton. Croy said he only saw Tippit as he was being placed in the ambulance but also stated he spoke to several witnesses and police officers but could not remember any of their names.
@@DavidArbuckle-sc8zc With witnesses like Markham, I think you have to apply common sense. From the moment bullets start flying, she is all over the place in her ecollections. But, the trip she made to the bus was part of her daily routine, the chances of her being off her timing by enough to contradict her is one hell of a coincidence. If someone wants to argue that "She may have been running late that day" it's their responsibility to show that she was wrong, and explain why its more likely to be that rather her being early or on time. There is "good reason" to at least doubt her recollection of the fine details of the shooting; Fear, Adrenalin, Shock will all do that... but no reason to doubt her timimng of leaving the house or what happened before the shooting started, beyond needing to doubt it to suit an opinion.
ok now you seem to be doing an honest video which is good . i mean you are starting the clock between 1.103 and 1.05 which is a fair and honest assessment of the time based on what we know . however you mention taking 10 minutes to travel a route ? just to clarify this is the official route that i know takes 16 minutes plus ? or the shorter route that gary mack tried to use that takes over 12 minutes , and which as i said is not the route the warren commission said oswald took . this is important . also what route did you take given that part of 10th street that was a street is no longer a street ? . meaning you had to have taken an alternate route . it seems having watched the video that you took the shorter route which is not the official route but a route that gary mack of the 6th floor museum came up with when he realized the official route did not work time wise . and he started his guy moving at 1pm and made no allowances for oswald being outside at the bus stop and being inside changing his shirt and slacks . and he barely got there at a very brisk pace in just over 12 minutes . but thank you for the video its interesting .
Unless a reliable witness said they saw Oswald and he was walking you can't conclude just because "no one saw a man running" that he wasn't. And even if someone said they saw him and he was walking that wouldn't mean he walked the whole way.
@@9Ballr Where was he running to? He was supposedly on his way to the theater. And he had a free transfer ticket in his pocket. Why didn't he just take the bus to the theater where he bought a movie ticket and popcorn?
Of course it was Oswald, he was seen by two dozen witnesses and police shooting Tippit, fleeing, reloading, exchanging words with one of them, hiding out, ducking into the theater and being caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the same gun.
He probably never waited long for a bus before starting to walk instead - arrives at home 12:58pm, leaves at 1pm, waits for bus 2 minutes, starts walking 1:02pm, cop shot 1:15pm, so means 13 minutes for 0.72 miles, so gives 3.5 mph or a WALK- a fast walk is 5 mph, so not a jog. Few folk would be on the streets as it was lunchtime or they were glued to TV or radio from 1pm.
You know, some time ago i was gifted a small fish priest,standard Fishing Ghost,of aluminium i think. I thought that it was to small to be useful but i decided not to discard it because it seemed a little heavier than my other one,made of cheap wood. After discovering this channel,all the types of saps,blackjacks and coshes,and of how effective they are,i stumbled upon it again. Really! This would destroy someone if used with purpose. I was always very skeptical of such short weapons because i have memory them not being able to accellerate enough to create reasonable momentum, and i was so sure it because when i was little i had such tought when wielding branches! Only 105 grams for 24 cm,baseball bat shape,yet is already powerful. I also found out the top can be screwed off ,to pour inside lead for 4cm of lenght and 1,5 cm of diameter. If i come around to do it,i believe it would be devastating. Do you believe that a solid body and striking surface is more effective than an elastic body and soft surface such as a sap?
Did the same thing myself some years back. Walked it at a brisk pace. Took about thirteen minutes, and assuming those times were approximate, seemed about right. There was no plaque at 10th and Patton at that time. No idea when that went up.
Me neither. The plaque should not tell people LHO was guilty of the crime when he would never have been convicted in a court of law of that murder (IMO) but it's there now.
@@ObjectHistory "Never would have been convicted..." He was seen doing it. He locked eyes with one witness. He smiled at one witness. He exchanged words with one witness. He was caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the same gun used on Tippit. Etc.
@@aaronz7056 Helen Markam----She is the only one time-stamped in the Warren report. Google her story as she is a nut yet the only witness who picked Oswald out of a lineup ( after 3 attempts)took the bus at 1:18 each day. Tippit's death certificate stated 1:09 then crossed out and 1:15 written. That's the official time of death. Oswald left his house around 1:00 PM.
It has recently been debunked on the ROKC forum that Oswald never lived at the Rooming House at 1026 North Beckley. The “O H Lee” in the House Register referred to Room 0, Herbert Lee (who was a real tenant in the House). They’ve also worked out that Oswald always lived with the Paines at Irving, and got a lift to work every day with Buell Wesley Frazier. The D.P.D. invented the Rooming House address so they could pretend he went home to get a pistol. Oswald was in the Theatre at the time Tippit was shot. Several witnesses in the Theatre (including the popcorn guy) have confirmed this. The pistol was a (faulty) standard issue police gun, planted on Oswald in the Theatre.
How much taller and heavier than Oswald are you? He was physically quite fit also and only 24. I don’t know, but I would be willing to bet that those factors play a part on the time expended.
I agree. I'm not making a strong case with this video, it was just an experiment and I think the most interesting and overlooked aspect is that we should question why he was going there at such a brisk pace (assuming he could have walked quickly there). As DA Henry Wade said back then (going off memory here but this is close to verbatim), "It doesn't make any sense. His movements make no sense unless he was on his way to meet someone." Again, not an exact quote.
Oswald was not randomly walking. he had an exit plan, whatch the History channels JFK Declassified: Tracking Oswald, if nothing else, it gives an interesting perspective.
The best and most extensive book on the Tippit killing is "Into the Nightmare" by Joseph McBride. Lots of reading but by far the most informative and detailed.
That book is a travesty, and pure character assassination of JD Tippit.. Come on?!.. His theory is another cop that we don’t know, told Marie Tippit he was in cahoots to kill Oswald with Tippit, but he was late because of a car accident?.. And Marie supposedly tells Tippit’s father, and neither of them speak about again for almost 40 years, until the senior Tippit relates it to McBride?.. Then McBride finds a traffic accident 11 blocks away, but doesn’t know who’s involved, but he claims that’s proof all of this is true?!.. Because there was an auto accident within an 11 block radius of the Tippit scene?!.. At 1pm on a Friday afternoon, in Oak Cliff?!.. As if that’s unusual?!.. Are you insane?.. It’s a 4th hand statement about ghosts, dude.. It’s nonsense..
Nevermind the fact Oswald is connected to both the shooting scene and the Texaco parking lot by physical evidence removed from his person when arrested, and multiple witnesses at each location.. Or that he definitely discarded a jacket and tried to kill cops when he resisted arrest?.. Which are pretty telling actions if you ask me?..
@@jacobjones5269 a revolver that mise fired? You really think a US marine from all his training . Would not have practiced shooting that revolver before put to use? Brother, I was in the Marines. And I would not only test fire, but would have been practicing firing in quick draw, reloading and even concealing walking into a movie theatre!
@@MissionaryForMexico To further explain.. Lee tried to kill the officer standing in front of him at the theatre.. The officer grabbed Lee’s pistol hand, and Lee pulled the trigger, and the hammer pinched the hand of the Officer, between the thumb and index finger.. And at that point the officer wrenched the pistol from his hand, basically by the hammer.. Which left the hammer out of line with the firing pin.. It only took a few seconds to realign it and it fired test bullets every time..
No, they had a dozen witnesses. Some witnessed Oswald actually shoot Tippett, and some saw him run from the scene. Later, a half dozen identified him in a line up. That's pretty darn conclusive. Conspiracy theorists will claim that all these random people were in on the conspiracy. That's crazy talk in and of itself. Also, when captured only blocks away, he pulled out his pistol and tried to shoot Officer McDonald. If you were innocent of a crime (not to mention oblivious of said crime), and an officer of the law asked you to stand up from your seat at the movies, you probably aren't going to pull a gun on said officer. Bad idea! Innocent people don't ordinarily do that unless they are complete wackos. The bullets from Tippett were matched to Oswald's gun, although they had odd markings because the bullets used were of a fractionaly smaller caliber than the pistol's chamber. He's definitely in the area and he's carrying. Looks bad for Oswald any way you cut it. Also, many have tried this distance including CBS News back in 1967. They were able to do it. This was settled years ago. Oswald was a crazy ass jerk; one man with a gun (not unlike 95% of all the other assassins or attempted assassins), and it pains me that so many try to give this loser a free pass. He killed two people that day, nearly killed another and attempted to kill another, not to mention his attempt on General Walker's life only months before which we know to be true because he told his wife and wrote and account of it. Hair splitting won't stand up in court and after a while just looks silly.
The point of the video was to, for the first time as far as I can tell, give a 100% unedited video of the path and how fast you have to walk/jog to make it. As far as the rest of your comments, they're a little all over the map. I'll just respectfully point out your logic is flawed in that Oswald resisting arrest and/or possibly killing Tippit in no way precludes the existence of a plan to kill the president, but that's the unspoken and flawed assumption you go with. "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.” LBJ, President of the United States, possessing something you and I have never had and will never have, the highest security clearance in the nation, and during the investigation of the crime.
"Conspiracy theorists will claim that all these random people were in on the conspiracy " norobbery if you say that then you have no idea what "conspiracy theorists " claim . your claim is nowhere near true . ONLY ONE warren commission witness , only one official witness claimed to see the shooting . that is helen markham . benavides was ducked down in his vehicle and never identified oswald . everyone else (of the official witnesses ) were either inside their homes or a distance away on patton . as for the line ups , they had oswald who was 24 but looked about 30 in one line up with TEEN BOYS one of whom was hisspanic DARK SKINNED . they had oswald wearing a torn teen shirt in a line up with detectives etc who were ll well dressed . one was taller , one was blonde , should i go on ? . william whalley cab driver saw one line up , he testified that oswald was angry that the line ups were UNFAIR . he said that OSWALD WAS BEING RAILROADED , THAT ANYONE WOULD HAVE PICKED OSWALD . the line ups were unfair and probably illegal . they had oswald speak and give his real name and place of work . so he said lee oswald , tesxas school book depository . this at a time when the whole word knew that the news reported shots from that building . all others gave fake names and places of work . stevie wonder could have picked oswald . no one has walked the official rout in less than 16 minutes . officially the call for help on tippits radio was made at 1.15 , the shooting was atleast 3 minutes prior to that , t f bowley arrived and looked at his watch , it said 1.10 and tippit was already shot and down . oswald was still outside his rooming house on beckley at 1.04 or 1.05 at the bus stop . that allows him only 6 or 7 minutes to travel a distance on foot that takes over 16 . other than the say so of marina oswald , and an undated , unsigned note now called the walker note , which never even mentions walker there is zero proof that oswald shot at walker . in fact the only witness walter coleman saw two men leave in two cars . remember marina also said he tried to kill nixon and nixon was not even in texas .
If Oswald took Patton to get to 10th street, he would have been seen by either Hellen Markham or William Scoggins. That’s why the Warren Commission had him take Crawford to 10th and then east to the intersection of Patton. However, the earliest police reports had Oswald approaching the intersection from the east which means Oswald would have had to have travelled much further than the WC route, going past the site of the murder and then turning around to encounter Tippit. Researcher Dale Myers believes that what got Tippit’s attention was that Oswald spotted Tippit and suddenly turned around. Again, this adds at least 2-3 minutes to Oswald’s travel time. Plus, why would Oswald walk/run at a rapid pace in a generally eastern direction and then turn around all of the sudden to encounter Tippit. Someone walking/running has a specific destination in mind. Yet after the shooting, Oswald heads in the opposite direction towards the theater. Makes absolutely no sense. Whoever encountered and shot Tippit had started as far east as Marsalis St. (based on witnesses), shot Tippit and continued going in the same direction towards the theater. That doesn’t mean the killer actually went to the theater. Couldn’t have been Oswald unless he actually stayed on the bus which would have passed Marsalis and 10th. While Oswald still had his bus transfer (unwrinkled despite being in his pants pocket following a mile long walk and a theater scuffle?), the bus driver said he exited the bus. Or Oswald got a ride. My suspicion is that Tippit’s killer had some kind of personal problem with Tippit, either a previous arrest, unfriendly encounter during one of Tippit’s moonlighting jobs or something involving money or a woman.
For decades, you conspiracy clowns have being speculating, guessing and inferring without any grain of evidence to substantiate your stupid claims. Try as you may, the evidence still leads nowhere else but to Oswald
1.0 mile walk straight there, (bus stop is the complete opposite direction of the theatre) cutting through yards and stuff at least 0.7 miles from 10th street to Theatre land lady says a cop car went toot toot and drove by. He probably got dropped off at 1:05 at the Theatre thinking he was meeting someone because he has CIA intel and tippit murder probably Husband Stephen Thompson who wife was Johnnie Maxi who had relationship with JD Tippit, and got back with husband to cover up the baby Susan “Susie” Marie Thompson later Thornton born June of 64 was JD. Waitress a Cook BBQ said Susie has JD’s eyes. Tippit was 6’3”’ladies man. Marie, Tippits widow made a huge scene a week later becauseJohnnie put flowers on JD’s grave. Stephen says its JD thus he and Johnnie got a divorce. Officer said Stephen constantly followed JD around. Usually #1 suspect is jealous spouse. not claiming that . just wondering if it was ever investigated. Not sure what Stephen looked like in 1963. Some officers believe it was Stephen and the murder was un related to JFK. Weird coincidence JD favored JFK and nicknamed Jack by the force
@@ch3blazinggospel669 So the husband of Tippit's mistress drives to 10th and Patton to kill Tippit? That was supposedly her house Tippit was parked in front of. What did he just walk out and shoot him, wave at Oswald and go back inside? I think I could make a better case for Tippit's wife to shoot him. LOL. That doesn't explain the extra cop car. Someone has to account for that. Westbrook and Croy are the only logical alternatives.
You were not running, you were walking fast. A running camera would bounce up and down not side to side. So your timing is correct to meet one possible scenario. Oswald was walking fast in order to make his meeting with his ride. Someone who plans a murder, logically will also plan his escape route. So the steps he was taking were part of his pre-planned escape route. If you review the path of Tippit that day he was parked in the Gloco Gas Station at 12:45pm which is the time a description of Oswald was broadcast on the police radio. Tippit possibly realized the description of the shooter was the same description of an individual he had agreed to meet and provide a ride to ?. Tippet was seen leaving the gas station at a high rate of speed and shortly thereafter arrived at the record store where he used the phone, did not get an answer to his call and left quickly. It is possible his was trying to call someone to cancel his agreed pickup now that he was aware of who he had agreed to transport. Tippit does go to the meeting place, confronts Oswald and knows he must take Oswald into custody instead of giving him a ride. Oswald sees this and kills Officer Tippit.
I disagree as someone who runs a fair amount. I've done various half-marathons and a full one. I would definitely describe my motion as jogging or running. I would never see someone moving along as I was and then describe them as, "walking." I'm not sure camera motion is a reliable indicator of the dividing line between what a reasonable person would call walking vs jogging. In my opinion (and it's just that, an opinion), anyone travelling the distance within the allotted time would look very conspicuous. That's what I arrived at anyway by conducting the experiment but that of course doesn't prove or disprove anything about Oswald killing Tippit or not.
You have to start at 1:04 PM and then remember the death certificate is @ 1:15 PM. However, two of the witnesses stated that the shooting took place at 1:06 PM. The Housekeeper states that a cop car stopped in front of the boarding house at the same time Oswald was waiting outside at the bus station and honked twice. Is it possible that Oswald got a ride to the Tippit location from the police? Two witnesses stated that there was a 2nd cop car in the alley blocked by Tippit's car. Capt. Westbrook and Officer Cray were both there. Both are linked to key evidence including the 2nd wallet the 2nd revolver, and the Jacket.
"You have to start at 1:04 PM and then remember the death certificate is @ 1:15 PM." No, you do not "have to" start at 1:04 pm since it has never been proven that that is the exact time when Oswald left the rooming house. The one and only witness to Oswald arriving at the house and then leaving, Earlene Roberts, never said that he left at exactly 1:04. In her affidavit of December 5, 1963, thirteen days after the assassination, she said: "On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:OOpm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President’s assassination when a man I knew as 0. H. Lee, but who has since been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, came into the front door and went to his room." "Approximately" 1 pm is not an exact time. Many people would agree that anywhere from five minutes before 1 pm to five minutes after 1 pm could be considered "approximately," meaning that Oswald could have arrived as late as 1:05 or as early as 12:55. She then said, "Oswald went to his room and was only there a very few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a dark color and it was the type that zips up the front. He was zipping the jacket up as he left. Oswald went out the front door. A moment later I looked out the window. I saw Lee Oswald standing on the curb at the bus stop just to the right, and on the same side of the street as our house. I just glanced out the window that once." A "few" minutes is not a specific number of minutes. Many people would agree that a "few" minutes could be as little as three minutes or as much as ten minutes. Roberts's claims to the Warren Commission on April 8, 1964, were quite similar: ********** Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in? Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say because-- Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ? Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it. ********** She said he came in "around" 1 pm or a little after. "Around" one o'clocks, as most people who speak English know perfectly well, does not mean the same thing as "exactly" one o'clock. And "maybe" a little after does not mean the same thing as "definitely" a little after. Also she never said how she knew what time it was. She never mentioned looking at a clock. She merely said that it was after JFK had been shot, but that was already on the news at least as early as 12:45. And see how she also said, "what time I wouldn't want to say," as if she wasn't all that certain?
@@Caeruleo Of course. When you're an apologist you have to disregard inconvenient testimony. Remember she said, the notice had just come on about Kennedy's DEATH. ( I think that was in the Mark Lane interview) So easy enough to check, when it first came on the radio or TV. Okay, so twisting yourself into a pretzel isn't easy when you are promoting the big WR lie, what is your estimate of when Oswald was there and when he left? So you are saying 12:45? So now we have Oswald, shooting Kennedy at 12:30 or so, calmly drinking a coke in the break room minutes after that, and leaving shortly after. Then he gets on a bus and gets out because of the traffic, and takes a Cab. Then he goes past his house, gets out, and walks back to the house, but gets there by 12:45? We have another time check also. Markham said she witnessed the shooting, and she was waiting for the bus, and it picked up for her at 1:06 and it had not come yet. Yikes. Oswald is some kind of superhero in the minds of the Apologists.
Anyone work out where he was heading from boarding house and why ?? Would it be a bus depot out of town as he had no transport - but that might be watched by cops.
@@merylstreep6278 t f bowley was on scene in his car and he arrived and saw tippit already down and dead . he looked at hi s watch and it said 1.10pm . markham having left home at her usual time for work , walked her usual route to get her 1.12 bus on jefferson . she walked one block and said she wouldnt mind betting that it was about 1.07 when tippit was shot . which ties in with bowley arriving a few minutes after . the 1.15 time is only the logged time of a call made from tippits radio .
@@fobrien1 No, the logged time of the call on Tippit's radio was 1.16pm. As I said, the time of the shooting was 1.15pm. You say, "ONLY the logged time"?! That is the only fixed time we have. Everything else is subordinate to that. Are you claiming that other people's perceptions are more accurate than the police radio log?! You are right in saying that Bowley said his watch said 1.10pm, but you are missing the point of that wording. This is 15 years before the arrival of digital watches. I don't know if you are old enough to remember those days but I am. Bowley is not saying that it was 1.10pm. He's saying that his watch said it was 1.10pm. The same is true of all the others. The timings are all subjective, including the time that Oswald left the boarding house. The only fixed times are the radio logs and phone logs. We know at what time the Tippit shooting was reported on his police radio and we know what time Julia Postal called the police. Those are logged. Everything else is subjective. Barbara Davis, Virginia Davis, Scoggins, Callaway, Guinyard and Markham positively identified Oswald in police line ups. Reynolds, Russell and Patterson positively identified Oswald from a photo. Even Tatum identified Oswald well over a decade later. The shells found at the scene were all expelled from Oswald's revolver, to the exclusion of all other weapons. Oswald was arrested with the same revolver, which he used to try to kill the officers who arrested him. His hands both had powder residue and the test results specifically said that his right hand had deposits "typical of the patterns produced in firing a revolver". So, in order for you to present a coherent alternative account of how Tippit was killed without Oswald being there, you need to say how someone else, who looked exactly like Oswald, had Oswald's revolver, fired the shots with his revolver and then gave it to him, carefully smearing powder residue onto Oswald's hands in a pattern which made it look as if he had fired a revolver and then disappeared before Oswald was arrested. You then have to explain why Oswald didn't tell his interrogators that someone had approached him in the street and given him a still warm revolver, smearing powder residue on his hands in a pattern which made it look as if he had recently fired a revolver.
@@merylstreep6278 "Bowley is not saying that it was 1.10pm. He's saying that his watch said it was 1.10pm." And this is a crucial point that anyone who wants to think rationally about the assassination has to understand. You always have to epistemically justify the move from "So-and-so said X," or "So-and-so saw X," to "Therefore, X is true."
@@dustyflair - Can’t remember the names but they are identified in Dale Myers “With Malice” which is a good book on the case even if I don’t agree with many of his conclusions. Myers believes that what got Tippits attention was Oswald approaching Tippit and suddenly turn around to avoid him. But if Oswald was initially going east, away from the rooming house, why did he suddenly turn back to encounter Tippit? And what of the several minutes added to the Oswald travel time between the rooming house and the murder?
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug! Of course Oswald could have made that walk. He had just killed the president. He had no idea where he was going except that he had to keep moving.
Oh I think he knew where he was going. I think he was looking for his pickup. As LBJ said himself, "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.”
- But he was as cool as a cucumber when a cop stopped him at gunpoint in the TSBD, calmly offered his cab to a woman. How could a 20 second conversation draw Tippit out of the car and why didn’t Tippit radio that he was stopping a suspect? During that time, police were announcing over the radio that they were arresting drunks, handling car accidents and minor shit. Yet Tippit stops who he supposedly thinks is involved in the presidential assassination and does not tell the dispatcher or ask for backup?
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot He was a deer in the headlights in the lunchroom. He let the woman have the cab because he didn't want to waste time or make a scene arguing with her. You'd have to ask Tippit why he didn't call it in, but he's dead so that will forever remain a mystery... but the evidence still points to Oswald panicking and shooting him.
@@ObjectHistory I can't remember. I've seen so many.over the decades. Got a guy built like Oswald. Wearing same clothes. Starts in TSBD and retraced LHO steps and times them. It was production grade doc. Maybe history channel or NatGeo.
Thanks! Wow, I haven’t seen Gary Mack in years. Well the only way to say for certain is to keep the camera rolling as I did so there’s no question about the pace slackening or speeding up. Like I said in my video, we can’t know for certain when he left but they seemed to have given him the longest portion of time possible. If you shave that down, the man’s brisk walk has to turn into a trot IMO and take way more effort than we saw in that video. I’ll try again sometime when I’m fresh and not in the middle of a running day.
You have the time wrong that Tippet was killed. You are allowing more time. The Warren commission did that as well to make sure they allowed enough time for Oswald.
It would be interesting to learn what happened to the shell casings of the bullets used in this crime. I've heard Oswald dumped them in the bushes and I've heard Tippit was shot with semiauto rounds.
Police would have shown up in the afternoon. -His boss Roy Truly had noticed Oswald missing, and he gave Oswalds adress in Irving to the police. -Police would have shown up in Irving at Ruth Paine and found out, that he lives in that boarding house. And now my question: What would have happened, if Oswald -had worn gloves, when handling his rifle. -had removed the serial number from his rifle. -had not left the TSBD after the assassination.
Deputy sheriff was a witnessed that a blue station wagon picked him up at the book depository and left with him after the shooting. He didn’t run. He was taken.
a number of things are wrong with this summary. First there is no mention of the police car that stopped at the boarding house and honked twice. I mention that because it is possible that Oswald was driven to the murder scene. As there was also a 2nd police car in the alley that TIppit's car blocked. The murder did NOT happen at 1:15 PM. That is what is on the Death Certificate. (actually it was typed over the original time of death @ 1:09 PM.
@@aaronz7056 Unlike you, I do not deal in absolutes when we don't really know because the crimes were not investigated. So unlike you I am open to the idea that Oswald may have been involved. ( I do not have a dog in the race) I think it is highly unlikely, but I have to consider the fact that the housekeeper gave the number of the car and stated there were two cops in it. I believe Oswald took the bus to the theater and met his contact in the theater. Both were arrested. Oswald in the front and his contact in the back. I think the murder of Tippit was done by the cops in the Police Car in the alley, and it was not the original plan but it became necessary when Oswald had escaped Captain Westbrook on the bus and then later at his boarding house. Westbrook or Tippit was sujpposed to murder Oswald, but Tippit was killed instead, and he,(Westbrook or Croy did it with the help of a Jack Ruby friend. Larry Cawfard.
@@DavidArbuckle-sc8zc No, here's what you do: a) give your middle finger to the family of a decorated police officer slain in the line of duty, and to the families of Westbrook and Croy, as you opine away without evidence these men were conspirators, murderers and traitors so long as it suits your crackpot "theories" b) give that same middle finger to Ruth Paine as you libel her dozens of times over as a conspirator without evidence when not despicably posting about such things as how "interesting" it is she is "maybe gay" c) summarily dismiss evidence wholesale without comment and replace it all in your narrative with uncorroborated speculation (eg., your ridiculous "theater contact" story above) d) tell one demonstrable crackpot lie after another, then double down on them when called out on them e) flatly refuse to explain how anybody framing Oswald could possibly have known all the things they would have had to know in order to do so, then just keep insisting he was framed again and fully expect to be accorded full credibility for that claim f) dodge direct questions put to you with one hilarious excuse after another to not answer them, like "I don't respond to WC shills" like that settles the matter...
@rockshox08 Bingo. He had already been cleared by the police officer and the building manager at the Book Depository. Why would he be frantic? He stuck around long enough to drink a coke.
how do people know the exact minute oswald started walking? The land lady had it right to the exact minute? What if it was 3 mins sooner or 4 mins sooner? Lol Right?
He had less time to get there than acknowledged by the Warren Commission. Earlene Roberts' testimony has him waiting at a bus stop at about 1.05 p.m. and Domingo Benavides' testimony precludes the shooting taking place later than 1.12 p.m. Oswald could not have walked there in seven minutes. He could not have got here by bus, either. Benavides' description of the man's hair and jacket do not fit Oswald's, either.
He shot Tippit, he was seen doing it, he was seen fleeing, he exchanged words with one witness, he was caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the gun used on Tippit, etc.
@@aaronz7056 There's often a great difference between what a witness saw and actually what the witness says they saw, but if you're going rest your case on what witnesses say they saw then you'll have to accept that there was a shooter on the grassy knoll.
@@tonyoliver2750 Oswald arrived at the rooming house at approx. one o'clock and Tippit was shot fifteen minutes later, and that walk between the two locations has been recreated (heck, anybody could recreate it now, and many have filmed themselves doing it) successfully enough to demonstrate Oswald could be at both locations just fine. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable but before we let Oswald off the hook for the killing based on Benavides' words nearly a dozen people ID'd Oswald after he was in custody: Markham, V. Davis, B. Davis, Callaway, Guinyard, Reynolds, Russell, Patterson, Lewis. This is pretty damning stuff...
Like a cult or religion, those who were taught at a much younger age by the authority figures in their lives that indeed there was a conspiracy and LHO wasn't the shooter are most likely to keep defending that position even in adulthood, due to their emotional attachment to the story.
Right, like LBJ who believed there was a conspiracy. Which authority figure told him to believe that exactly? Or Robert Kennedy, who was the head of all law enforcement during the investigation and believed the same. Let's see, there's also J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI at the time. I could keep going. I don't mind someone challenging the concept that there was a conspiracy but that is a very flimsy charge you made. Important people at the highest levels of government during the investigation privately believed others were involved in the crime. That is historical fact. They probably based their opinion on more than a cult-like mentality.
- Exactly. Even Dale Myers agrees with this. Plus it is consistent with Tippit’s killer continuing west after killing Tippit. Problem is, this adds several minutes to Oswald’s travel time and doesn’t explain the change in direction. I think Tippit had some past unfriendly encounter with his killer and this was just a chance encounter.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Chance encounter my eye, multiple witnesses ID'd Oswald and what the heck are the odds some unidentified guy with a grudge against Tippit (even though there is no evidence of one existing) would happen to run into him at 10th and Patton in Oak Cliff at that moment... and then decided to go completely insane gun him down on a public street in broad daylight with people nearby....
@@aaronz7056 Why would the killer be insane? Why would Oswald feel the need to shoot Tippit, after all the handgun in his possession wasn't used to kill JFK and Tippit would have had no other reason to suspect Oswald.
@@tonyoliver2750 You haven't done ANY reading on this case, have you? lol Possibly because he knew he had killed Kennedy, he had left his own rifle behind, he knew he had fled the plaza and that fact would soon be noticed, quite probably already. You're letting him off the hook for this, then weirdly insisting I provide you with alternate explanations for his actions other than him being guilty of the assassination! You know full well an APB was out for the man seen in the window and Tippit would have heard it and only blocks away would have noticed this slender young white guy walking down the street and turning on his heel and walk away on seeing him. Of course he was suspicious enough to want a closer look at him.
@@aaronz7056 How would I know whether an APB was out if I haven't done "...any reading on this case..."? Make your mind up Aaron Z. And I'm not letting anyone off the hook (even you), I merely asking you, politely. a few questions, which you seem reluctant to answer. A slender young white guy? Well that narrows the search. How many slender young white guys were there in Dallas in 1963? If the description of Oswald was based on what some people observed looking up at the sixth floor window of the TSBD how could they know he was slender, or what height he was or what he was wearing? And good luck estimating someone's age from a brief glimpse looking up from Dealey Plaza at a sixth floor window. Even if Oswald closely fitted a more detailed description, he had nothing on him to connect him with the assassination of JFK, so I'll ask you once again, what motive would Oswald have to shoot Tippit? NB You don't know that Oswald had left his rifle behind, perhaps someone else had put it there. Is that an impossibility, especially if you needed a patsy? I've seen a lot of your replies to other people and it's clear you've swallowed the narrative of the WC, hook, line and sinker. I on the other hand, am reluctant to assume the honesty of anyone in a position of power so I will continue to ask questions.
Excellent video. But the verbal exchange between Tippit and Oswald did not last 2 minutes- more like 30 seconds. The shooting likely occurred at 1:15 pm. The first call on the radio was made by a witness at 1:17 pm. Several people have done the same thing you have using someone of Oswald’s height and build. Walking at a brisk pace, not jogging, it can be done in less than 11 minutes if you use the Crawford route, presumably faster if they took your Patton route. So that puts Oswald at the scene in time to shoot Tippit. But with little time to spare. Regardless of how Oswald got there, we know that he did. We know that Tippit was shot with Oswald’s .38 revolver because the firing pin markings on the ejected shells match up to the exclusion of all other guns. Numerous witnesses saw Oswald do it and picked him out of a line up. Oswald discarded his jacket behind the Texaco service station. He was seen evading the police by turning his back to the street whenever a police car went by on Jefferson Ave. And of course, the most telling fact is that he sneaked into the Texaco Theater and when police tried to apprehend Oswald, he tried to shoot the arresting officer with the same .38 that was used to kill Tippit. Does it really make sense that if Oswald were innocent he would take a gun to the movie theater, enter without paying and then try to shoot a police officer in the theater? It does make sense if you are a fugitive and running away after shooting a policeman in front of multiple witnesses.
Well I disagree on the certainty that Oswald did it or most especially did it alone. The bullets and shells not matching up seems highly suspicious to me, as does the incredibly convenient ‘wallet’ drop. The most interesting part to me is the why of this spot if you will... a spot frequented by JDT so much that a homeowner thought he lived there. And Oswald just happens to walk with a serious purpose to end up there of all places? Thanks for watching! Just a spur of the moment decision really as mentioned in the video.
Object History Actually the bullets and the shells match up perfectly. They were .38 specials. In 1963, ballistics could not make a legally positive identification on the bullets, because Oswald had purchased a Smith & Wesson that was designed for British .38 caliber bullets which are slightly larger than .38 specials. This prevented the bullet from making complete contact with the barrel and thus not enough markings in 1963 to make a positive ID. However, even in 1963, most ballistics experts opined that it was highly likely that the bullets recovered from Tippit matched Oswald’s revolver. Subsequently, advances in forensic science have enabled today’s experts to make a 100 percent match to Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all other guns. Were it not for the enormity of Oswald’s shocking crimes, most people would not waste time arguing Oswald’s innocence. This was an ironclad case of murder. The evidence against Oswald is simply overwhelming. A jury wouldn’t have had to deliberate more than 30 minutes to deliver a guilty verdict.
@@spudrain Who has confirmed in modern times that the bullets were fired from Oswald's gun to the exclusion of all other weapons with 100% certainty? I'll be happy to look that up if you have a citation. Regardless, as I assume you know, the cartridges and slugs do not match up in terms of manufacturers. From the Warren Commission, "Three of the bullets recovered from Tippit's body were manufactured by Winchester-Western, and the fourth bullet by Remington-Peters, but only two of the four discarded cartridge cases found on the lawn at 10th Street and Patton Avenue were of Winchester-Western manufacture." As an article from the School of Law, University of Georgia concluded, "Even accepting that Oswald owned and possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the FBI had been fired from that weapon, therefore, the ballistics evidence is questionable." Overall though you misunderstand me as I'm willing to believe Oswald was a party to the assassination but that there were others involved and he was exactly what he said he was, a patsy, the fall guy. Again, 'Oswald' dropping his wallet at the murder site is highly suspicious to me. 1) No eye witness had Oswald or whoever approached the squad car take out a wallet. 2) I'm the only one I've ever seen point this out... so Oswald didn't keep his money in his wallet? I mean, after all he was found in the Texas Theater with something like $100 in terms of today's cash (I plugged it into an inflation calculator a long time ago out of curiosity, it was something like that) on him but he just happened to leave the wallet at the murder scene but take the cash? 3) As I've said, Tippit is at this favorite, quiet spot of his and Oswald just happens to haul ass from the boarding house fast enough to get there for that fateful meeting. Why? Was it really just coincidence? Could have been. 4) But, we also know Tippit rushed to get to that spot for no apparent reason. Minutes before his death and 6/10's of a mile away, he rushed into a store to use their phone, didn't get an answer to whoever he was calling and then drove off quickly, also making it in the nick of time for the fateful encounter at his usual hangout spot.
Object History The books by Bugliosi, Posner and Dale Myers are all very sound. Myers, a former conspiracy believer, does a good job of debunking the wallet mystery as well as some of the other lore surrounding Tippit. From the start, the shell casings were tied to Oswald’s .38 based upon the firing pin indentations. Initially, the bullets recovered from Tippit’s body could not be matched to Oswald’s gun with absolute legal certainty, though most said it was likely a match. Dale Myers goes into recent advancements in ballistics technology that have now made it possible to make a 100% match. In every case, there are strange anomalies and coincidences. The conspiracy theorists seize upon these anomalies to claim there was a conspiracy. They are not proof of Oswald’s innocence or of a conspiracy. You have to look at the bigger picture, the eyewitnesses, Oswald’s actions after the assassination, and his behavior in the Texas Theater. The conspiracy theorists remind me of the old parable of the elephant and a group of blind men who had never encountered an elephant. They each feel different parts of the elephant and think it’s something other than an elephant. For example, one blind man feels the Elephant’s trunk and believes it to be a thick snake. Another feels the elephant’s leg and thinks it’s a tree. But if you are able to see the whole elephant and you know for a fact that it is an elephant, the fact that there is evidence that might indicate that it’s a snake or a tree doesn’t mean it’s not an elephant. The fundamental flaw of conspiracy thinking, and not just JFK conspiracy thinking, is there is too much focus upon the minutia and anomalies and not enough attention to the facts and the big picture.
@@spudrain OK, I ask you to bear with me as I try to make this as concise as possible. You have to be just as careful with conmen trying to convince you of one side (lone gunman) as you do of the other (conspiracy). LBJ, "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.” Did you know he said that? It's a fact. Did you know that the president, the head of the FBI and the Attorney General (Bobby Kennedy of course) all disbelieved the lone gunman theory? I challenge you to really think about that new (to you) data point... the president and the two men over all of the U.S. investigative bodies, all with the highest level of security clearance possible... and not even one of out of the three believed the lone gunman theory Posner, et al push. You find Bugliosi and Posner credible? Posner is a certified liar and plagiarizer... Google it. Did you know that? Meanwhile, Bugliosi was a former prosecutor. Is a prosecutor's job to give both sides a fair chance? No, it's to convince the jury that the defendant is guilty at all costs. I could go on forever with the omissions and misrepresentations in both of those books. And then there's Meyers. He created the famous computer animation that was used in the even more famous Peter Jennings special (40th anniversary). That animation is a lie and I can easily, easily, prove that to you if you like. I'm not joking. Anyway, convincing someone of one side by omitting conflicting data instead of dealing with it, etc. is not a real attempt to solve a case. All three of those books are intellectually dishonest. I wrote a history book praised by multiple people with doctorates in history, I have some skill in seeing real vs faux historical research. Back to the bullets, you still haven't addressed the basic fact I listed, that the slugs and casings do not match up in terms of manufacturer. They just don't, this is an uncontested fact and always has been. Meanwhile, I do not believe you can cite a scientifically validated, peer reviewed experiment, etc. that proves what you claimed, that the bullets have been matched to Oswald's gun with 100% certainty. Google that claim and tell me what credible scientific journal is making this claim, or has the FBI officially concurred? Did any major media outlet claim this? I'm sure you know science works, a claim has to be verified by other scientists working independently. Only then is the theory considered valid, right? Has this happened with Meyer's claims? I humbly submit that you've let yourself be convinced by one-sided, prosecutorial briefs. Those are the only kinds of sources you mentioned. Can you imagine what the conviction rate in this country would be if defendant's didn't have lawyers to counter the prosecutor's case in court, to question it, to poke the holes (if any) in their claims? Go ahead and ask any prosecutor how easy their job would be if only they could make their case to the jury. Then think about how 'convincing' the three sources you mentioned were.
If Oswald did not shoot Tippit, he has to have been framed. The people framing him would have had to know, all in advance:
- Oswald would immediately flee the TSBD
- Oswald would successfully escape the plaza
- Oswald would definitely go specifically to Oak Cliff
- Oswald owned a revolver
- exactly where the revolver was
- Oswald would obtain the revolver
- Oswald would retain the revolver
- an imposter who looks so much like Oswald he can fool witnesses (including the one he exchanged words with) needs to be hanging around 10th and Patton
- the imposter can be certain Oswald is nearby
- the imposter needs to be wearing a jacket just as Oswald decides to put one on at the last minute
- a cop will be driving at 10th and Patton at exactly the right moment for Oswald's known movements to make it possible to plausibly place him at the crime scene
- the cop won't simply outdraw and capture the imposter
- nobody will ever see the imposter again
- nobody will ever see Oswald anywhere else during the shooting
- every witness in this quiet suburb can be counted on to lie about what they saw as long as they live
- the way to deal with those who can't is to threaten and coerce them, thus confirming a conspiracy exists to each one of them
- they can safely count on exactly the right ballistics experts on the FBI and Dallas PD to obey illegal orders to falsify the evidence and make themselves loyal accessories to murder
- they can safely count on every cop who is among the first to arrive at the theater to perjure himself
- they can safely count on scores of Dallas PD officers to be onboard for helping in the successful execution-style murder of a brother officer with a wife and three children
- there is any point in risking everything killing a cop at all when Kennedy is already dead, Oswald is already on the run and if anything goes wrong here they've just gone to a lot of trouble to end up confirming a conspiracy exists....
This is exactly right. But believing in conspiracies is way more interesting however implausibly impossible. This is why the conspiracy theories get more outlandish as time passes.
@@dropway9108 You ever notice conspiracy theorists never explain why it wouldn't have been safer and more practical to just use a marksman who can peel off his disguise and disappear instead of approaching and recruiting scores of police, FBI, Secret Service, military personnel, Oswald family members, staffs at embassies in another country, x-ray technicians, ballistics experts, shoe store clerks, housewives, reporters, whole commissions, and persuading them all to obey illegal orders to commit crimes and make themselves all loyal accessories to murder and treason?
I don’t think Oswald shot Tippit and that the Tippit murder is due to some conflict Tippit had with the killer. On the Dallas Police tapes another cop asks if they think the Tippit shooting had anything to do with the presidential assassination and the answer was “we don’t know”. I think the Dallas police wanted to get someone for the murder of a fellow policeman. The number of events needed to be coordinated to frame Oswald for the Tippit killing as indicated by the current narrative needed so many things to go right that the overall success has about the same probability or less than if the Tippit killing has nothing to do with the JFK assassination.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot So if it was not Oswald who killed Tippit then we are back to someone who looks shockingly like Oswald. If there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, and the killing of Tippit has nothing to do with the JFK shooter(s) is it simply mere coincidence the shooter bore a striking resemblance to LHO? Also, we know Oswald was in the movie theater when apprehended. So where was he when the Tippit murder took place if he is not the shooter? He must have been in the vicinity, unless he teleported from his boarding house room to the theatre after the lookalike Oswald was spotted acting very suspiciously (hiding in doorways, hiding in stores as sirens wailed by in response the to Tippit shooting), and this coincidental doppelganger just happened to go into the same theatre where LHO was already sitting.
@@dropway9108 - He could have gone directly to the theater from the rooming house. I’m not too impressed with the eyewitnesses especially given how the lineups were conducted. Why would Oswald walk almost a mile to where the Tippit murder happened and not continue in that general direction? I think Oswald was involved in some way in the assassination but not the Tippit murder.
I moved to Dallas 5 years ago. Being fascinated with the JFK murder, I started asking questions and visiting all these places on weekends. Soon after, I got mysterious calls threatening me and to quit asking questions. Another time, I parked at the open lot across from this house on a sunny Saturday afternoon. A black SUV drove past behind me and someone threw a big rock breaking my rear window. A few weeks later, I visited the Egyptian on Mockingbird and was asking about Jack Ruby. Some old guy in his 70’s got up from bar and told me “best you stop digging around boy” and left. Soon after I left the restaurant and crossed the street to my car parked at DART station. I noticed 2 grown men in a dark car near my car staring at me. I got so scared that I walked past the car. They got off their car and followed me. I managed to hop on the train and home to Richardson. The next day, I took an Uber to the station to pick up my car. Anyway, I stopped asking around or visiting these places. I believe this murder was a conspiracy including many powerful people in Dallas and living members of those involved are still scared of the truth coming out.
That's very strange but also interesting. Have you asked any questions since then.
@@amberjean1107 Not anymore. I believe it was s well orchestrated assassination involving LBJ, Oil Barrons, Dallas PD, CIA. And all because they couldn’t stand a young, handsome, smart liberal who was making waves.
Lol
Oswald did it alone, huh?
You have some serious issues with paranoia.
having lived in Dallas all my life I never really put much thought into this, so thanks for putting the work into a genuinely interesting experiment. admittedly I've never really taken an interest in the Kenedy assassination outside of bringing out of town friends to the museum but now I might start looking into it
Thanks. It’s really fascinating. There is unfortunately so much bad and/or purposefully misleading information about it (on both sides). I like sticking to the incontrovertible facts and then creating if-then bits of analysis. Like here... given the facts, if Oswald killed J.D. Tippit then he (apparently) had to run.
JD Tippet wasn’t shot dead at 1:15pm. he was declared dead at 1:15pm @ nearby Methodist Hospital. Tippit was shot approximately 1:06PM. Further, a man fitting Oswalds description was seen briskly walking west on E. 10th at the intersection with N. Marseilles minutes before the shooting.
Half a dozen witnesses said Oswald made it there in time...
As I said in the video, the point was to establish how quickly he would have had to have travelled on foot to get there on time. People who identified Oswald as being at the scene of the shooting would be completely unaware of how he got there (car). The official investigations have always maintained he could have walked, “at a brisk pace.” I did not find that to be true in actually trying it.
You have the shooting at 1:15?
Is there a particular source you use for that?
If you back track it, and take the witness evidence from those on hand, that's a little bit later than those witnesses called it.
.
The WC placed it at 1:16 as that was the time the call came in on the police radio dispatch, and he "walked briskly" after leaving "around 1:00pm" in order to give him over quarter of an hour to cover the distance.
But...
Helen Markham (who saw the shooter "walking" prior to the shooting) placed the shots at around 1:06/1:07 having left her home a few minutes earlier at "Just after 1PM"
Domingo Benavides waited for the shooter to leave, then waited "another 2 minutes" then came out to try and help Tippit when he realised that was a no-go he tried to use the Police radio but couldn;t get it working.
Around that time TF Bowley drives up and sees what's going on. He diligently checks his watch and notices that it is 1:10pm and goes over to help Tippit. After he realises that this is in vain, he takes over from Benavides on the police radio in Tippits cruiser, and makes a call to the Dispatch which is logged by the Police at coming in at 1:16 (The time the WC has as the time of the shooting...)
I'm no runner... I probaly could do to be, but... as someone who does know what they are talking about, and has run the route, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
IF the witnesses (Earlene Roberts had Oswald outside the house around 1:03) were right and the shooting happened no earlier than the two minute gap between Benavides hiding and Bowley checking his watch, or 1:08... heck, lets say Bowleys watch was out by a couple of minutes and call 1:10PM for the shooting... what sort of pace would Oswald (not nown to be a "runner") have needed to hit, and how likely would it be that wearing normal work shoes and three upper layers of clothing that he would not be a physical wreck by the time he covered the distance in under 7 minutes? I'm not going to insult you and ask if he could have done it in the circa 5 minutes the witnesses have it at.
@andrewtomlinson5237 Markham is a horrible witness but she did reveal one important fact. She said she was waiting for a bus to come at 1:06 PM and she said the shooting happened before the bus got there. Two other witnesses said they clocked it at 1:06 also. The Ambulance got there very fast and Jeana Davis said that Officer Croy was on the scene before Oswald turned the corner on Patton. Croy said he only saw Tippit as he was being placed in the ambulance but also stated he spoke to several witnesses and police officers but could not remember any of their names.
@@DavidArbuckle-sc8zc With witnesses like Markham, I think you have to apply common sense. From the moment bullets start flying, she is all over the place in her ecollections. But, the trip she made to the bus was part of her daily routine, the chances of her being off her timing by enough to contradict her is one hell of a coincidence.
If someone wants to argue that "She may have been running late that day" it's their responsibility to show that she was wrong, and explain why its more likely to be that rather her being early or on time.
There is "good reason" to at least doubt her recollection of the fine details of the shooting; Fear, Adrenalin, Shock will all do that... but no reason to doubt her timimng of leaving the house or what happened before the shooting started, beyond needing to doubt it to suit an opinion.
ok now you seem to be doing an honest video which is good . i mean you are starting the clock between 1.103 and 1.05 which is a fair and honest assessment of the time based on what we know .
however you mention taking 10 minutes to travel a route ? just to clarify this is the official route that i know takes 16 minutes plus ? or the shorter route that gary mack tried to use that takes over 12 minutes , and which as i said is not the route the warren commission said oswald took . this is important . also what route did you take given that part of 10th street that was a street is no longer a street ? . meaning you had to have taken an alternate route .
it seems having watched the video that you took the shorter route which is not the official route but a route that gary mack of the 6th floor museum came up with when he realized the official route did not work time wise . and he started his guy moving at 1pm and made no allowances for oswald being outside at the bus stop and being inside changing his shirt and slacks . and he barely got there at a very brisk pace in just over 12 minutes .
but thank you for the video its interesting .
This got DARK!
For a matter of life and death, someone could walk that whole distance in 5 mins without breaking a sweat.
"That which is submitted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
I almost went to Dallas on the same day you did and try the same thing.. I would have run into you! lol!
No one saw a man running.... so you must walk
Unless a reliable witness said they saw Oswald and he was walking you can't conclude just because "no one saw a man running" that he wasn't. And even if someone said they saw him and he was walking that wouldn't mean he walked the whole way.
@@9Ballr Where was he running to? He was supposedly on his way to the theater. And he had a free transfer ticket in his pocket. Why didn't he just take the bus to the theater where he bought a movie ticket and popcorn?
There's no way Oswald could have done that route in time to kill tippit and make it to the Texas theater
Of course it was Oswald, he was seen by two dozen witnesses and police shooting Tippit, fleeing, reloading, exchanging words with one of them, hiding out, ducking into the theater and being caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the same gun.
@@aaronz7056 Santa Claus is coming to town was playing on the screen too....
@@dustyflair Who the heck do you *think* shot Tippit for crying out loud? Much less "why?"
Wrong.
Conclusions of a simpleton? In a situation of abject desperation like Oswald was, you will cover that distance in 5 mins and won't break a sweat
There were 12 people who saw Oswald shooting Tippet and/or running from the area with a gun. This is not disputed.
He probably never waited long for a bus before starting to walk instead - arrives at home 12:58pm, leaves at 1pm, waits for bus 2 minutes, starts walking 1:02pm, cop shot 1:15pm, so means 13 minutes for 0.72 miles, so gives 3.5 mph or a WALK- a fast walk is 5 mph, so not a jog.
Few folk would be on the streets as it was lunchtime or they were glued to TV or radio from 1pm.
You know, some time ago i was gifted a small fish priest,standard Fishing Ghost,of aluminium i think. I thought that it was to small to be useful but i decided not to discard it because it seemed a little heavier than my other one,made of cheap wood. After discovering this channel,all the types of saps,blackjacks and coshes,and of how effective they are,i stumbled upon it again. Really! This would destroy someone if used with purpose. I was always very skeptical of such short weapons because i have memory them not being able to accellerate enough to create reasonable momentum, and i was so sure it because when i was little i had such tought when wielding branches! Only 105 grams for 24 cm,baseball bat shape,yet is already powerful. I also found out the top can be screwed off ,to pour inside lead for 4cm of lenght and 1,5 cm of diameter. If i come around to do it,i believe it would be devastating.
Do you believe that a solid body and striking surface is more effective than an elastic body and soft surface such as a sap?
Did the same thing myself some years back. Walked it at a brisk pace. Took about thirteen minutes, and assuming those times were approximate, seemed about right. There was no plaque at 10th and Patton at that time. No idea when that went up.
Me neither. The plaque should not tell people LHO was guilty of the crime when he would never have been convicted in a court of law of that murder (IMO) but it's there now.
@@ObjectHistory "Never would have been convicted..."
He was seen doing it.
He locked eyes with one witness.
He smiled at one witness.
He exchanged words with one witness.
He was caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the same gun used on Tippit.
Etc.
@@aaronz7056 Helen Markam----She is the only one time-stamped in the Warren report. Google her story as she is a nut yet the only witness who picked Oswald out of a lineup ( after 3 attempts)took the bus at 1:18 each day. Tippit's death certificate stated 1:09 then crossed out and 1:15 written. That's the official time of death. Oswald left his house around 1:00 PM.
The sign says "war is hell" was that really there on the sign in 2020?
Every year on the anniversary they change the marquee to match the way it was on November 22, 1963.
It has recently been debunked on the ROKC forum that Oswald never lived at the Rooming House at 1026 North Beckley. The “O H Lee” in the House Register referred to Room 0, Herbert Lee (who was a real tenant in the House).
They’ve also worked out that Oswald always lived with the Paines at Irving, and got a lift to work every day with Buell Wesley Frazier.
The D.P.D. invented the Rooming House address so they could pretend he went home to get a pistol.
Oswald was in the Theatre at the time Tippit was shot. Several witnesses in the Theatre (including the popcorn guy) have confirmed this.
The pistol was a (faulty) standard issue police gun, planted on Oswald in the Theatre.
All of that comment was complete nonsense
Spumkflaps, head on back to the bar, bro.
How much taller and heavier than Oswald are you? He was physically quite fit also and only 24. I don’t know, but I would be willing to bet that those factors play a part on the time expended.
I agree. I'm not making a strong case with this video, it was just an experiment and I think the most interesting and overlooked aspect is that we should question why he was going there at such a brisk pace (assuming he could have walked quickly there). As DA Henry Wade said back then (going off memory here but this is close to verbatim), "It doesn't make any sense. His movements make no sense unless he was on his way to meet someone." Again, not an exact quote.
Having been an ex marine he was very likely quite fit
@@michaelmartin5467 and great with guns too?
Oswald was not randomly walking. he had an exit plan, whatch the History channels JFK Declassified: Tracking Oswald, if nothing else, it gives an interesting perspective.
I believe there was a woman across the street who witnessed and identified Oswald as the one who shot Tippit.
yea she was a drunk.
@@dustyflair Oswald was ID'd by several witnesses and he was caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the gun used on Tippit.
The best and most extensive book on the Tippit killing is "Into the Nightmare" by Joseph McBride. Lots of reading but by far the most informative and detailed.
That book is a travesty, and pure character assassination of JD Tippit..
Come on?!.. His theory is another cop that we don’t know, told Marie Tippit he was in cahoots to kill Oswald with Tippit, but he was late because of a car accident?..
And Marie supposedly tells Tippit’s father, and neither of them speak about again for almost 40 years, until the senior Tippit relates it to McBride?..
Then McBride finds a traffic accident 11 blocks away, but doesn’t know who’s involved, but he claims that’s proof all of this is true?!.. Because there was an auto accident within an 11 block radius of the Tippit scene?!.. At 1pm on a Friday afternoon, in Oak Cliff?!.. As if that’s unusual?!..
Are you insane?.. It’s a 4th hand statement about ghosts, dude.. It’s nonsense..
Nevermind the fact Oswald is connected to both the shooting scene and the Texaco parking lot by physical evidence removed from his person when arrested, and multiple witnesses at each location.. Or that he definitely discarded a jacket and tried to kill cops when he resisted arrest?.. Which are pretty telling actions if you ask me?..
@@jacobjones5269 a revolver that mise fired? You really think a US marine from all his training . Would not have practiced shooting that revolver before put to use? Brother, I was in the Marines. And I would not only test fire, but would have been practicing firing in quick draw, reloading and even concealing walking into a movie theatre!
@@MissionaryForMexico
The gun was wrenched from his hand, which bent the hammer a bit.. It was quickly repaired and fired test bullets without issue..
@@MissionaryForMexico
To further explain.. Lee tried to kill the officer standing in front of him at the theatre.. The officer grabbed Lee’s pistol hand, and Lee pulled the trigger, and the hammer pinched the hand of the Officer, between the thumb and index finger.. And at that point the officer wrenched the pistol from his hand, basically by the hammer.. Which left the hammer out of line with the firing pin.. It only took a few seconds to realign it and it fired test bullets every time..
No, they had a dozen witnesses. Some witnessed Oswald actually shoot Tippett, and some saw him run from the scene. Later, a half dozen identified him in a line up. That's pretty darn conclusive. Conspiracy theorists will claim that all these random people were in on the conspiracy. That's crazy talk in and of itself. Also, when captured only blocks away, he pulled out his pistol and tried to shoot Officer McDonald. If you were innocent of a crime (not to mention oblivious of said crime), and an officer of the law asked you to stand up from your seat at the movies, you probably aren't going to pull a gun on said officer. Bad idea! Innocent people don't ordinarily do that unless they are complete wackos. The bullets from Tippett were matched to Oswald's gun, although they had odd markings because the bullets used were of a fractionaly smaller caliber than the pistol's chamber. He's definitely in the area and he's carrying. Looks bad for Oswald any way you cut it.
Also, many have tried this distance including CBS News back in 1967. They were able to do it. This was settled years ago.
Oswald was a crazy ass jerk; one man with a gun (not unlike 95% of all the other assassins or attempted assassins), and it pains me that so many try to give this loser a free pass. He killed two people that day, nearly killed another and attempted to kill another, not to mention his attempt on General Walker's life only months before which we know to be true because he told his wife and wrote and account of it. Hair splitting won't stand up in court and after a while just looks silly.
The point of the video was to, for the first time as far as I can tell, give a 100% unedited video of the path and how fast you have to walk/jog to make it. As far as the rest of your comments, they're a little all over the map. I'll just respectfully point out your logic is flawed in that Oswald resisting arrest and/or possibly killing Tippit in no way precludes the existence of a plan to kill the president, but that's the unspoken and flawed assumption you go with.
"I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.” LBJ, President of the United States, possessing something you and I have never had and will never have, the highest security clearance in the nation, and during the investigation of the crime.
"Conspiracy theorists will claim that all these random people were in on the conspiracy " norobbery
if you say that then you have no idea what "conspiracy theorists " claim . your claim is nowhere near true .
ONLY ONE warren commission witness , only one official witness claimed to see the shooting . that is helen markham . benavides was ducked down in his vehicle and never identified oswald . everyone else (of the official witnesses ) were either inside their homes or a distance away on patton .
as for the line ups , they had oswald who was 24 but looked about 30 in one line up with TEEN BOYS one of whom was hisspanic DARK SKINNED . they had oswald wearing a torn teen shirt in a line up with detectives etc who were ll well dressed . one was taller , one was blonde , should i go on ? . william whalley cab driver saw one line up , he testified that oswald was angry that the line ups were UNFAIR . he said that OSWALD WAS BEING RAILROADED , THAT ANYONE WOULD HAVE PICKED OSWALD . the line ups were unfair and probably illegal . they had oswald speak and give his real name and place of work . so he said lee oswald , tesxas school book depository . this at a time when the whole word knew that the news reported shots from that building . all others gave fake names and places of work . stevie wonder could have picked oswald .
no one has walked the official rout in less than 16 minutes . officially the call for help on tippits radio was made at 1.15 , the shooting was atleast 3 minutes prior to that , t f bowley arrived and looked at his watch , it said 1.10 and tippit was already shot and down . oswald was still outside his rooming house on beckley at 1.04 or 1.05 at the bus stop . that allows him only 6 or 7 minutes to travel a distance on foot that takes over 16 .
other than the say so of marina oswald , and an undated , unsigned note now called the walker note , which never even mentions walker there is zero proof that oswald shot at walker . in fact the only witness walter coleman saw two men leave in two cars . remember marina also said he tried to kill nixon and nixon was not even in texas .
If Oswald took Patton to get to 10th street, he would have been seen by either Hellen Markham or William Scoggins. That’s why the Warren Commission had him take Crawford to 10th and then east to the intersection of Patton. However, the earliest police reports had Oswald approaching the intersection from the east which means Oswald would have had to have travelled much further than the WC route, going past the site of the murder and then turning around to encounter Tippit. Researcher Dale Myers believes that what got Tippit’s attention was that Oswald spotted Tippit and suddenly turned around. Again, this adds at least 2-3 minutes to Oswald’s travel time.
Plus, why would Oswald walk/run at a rapid pace in a generally eastern direction and then turn around all of the sudden to encounter Tippit. Someone walking/running has a specific destination in mind. Yet after the shooting, Oswald heads in the opposite direction towards the theater. Makes absolutely no sense.
Whoever encountered and shot Tippit had started as far east as Marsalis St. (based on witnesses), shot Tippit and continued going in the same direction towards the theater. That doesn’t mean the killer actually went to the theater.
Couldn’t have been Oswald unless he actually stayed on the bus which would have passed Marsalis and 10th. While Oswald still had his bus transfer (unwrinkled despite being in his pants pocket following a mile long walk and a theater scuffle?), the bus driver said he exited the bus. Or Oswald got a ride.
My suspicion is that Tippit’s killer had some kind of personal problem with Tippit, either a previous arrest, unfriendly encounter during one of Tippit’s moonlighting jobs or something involving money or a woman.
Suspicions are not evidence.
For decades, you conspiracy clowns have being speculating, guessing and inferring without any grain of evidence to substantiate your stupid claims. Try as you may, the evidence still leads nowhere else but to Oswald
How long would it have taken Lee Oswald to walk from his boarding house to the theatre ?
1.0 mile walk straight there, (bus stop is the complete opposite direction of the theatre) cutting through yards and stuff at least 0.7 miles from 10th street to Theatre land lady says a cop car went toot toot and drove by. He probably got dropped off at 1:05 at the Theatre thinking he was meeting someone because he has CIA intel and
tippit murder probably Husband Stephen Thompson who wife was Johnnie Maxi who had relationship with JD Tippit, and got back with husband to cover up the baby Susan “Susie” Marie Thompson later Thornton born June of 64 was JD.
Waitress a Cook BBQ said Susie has JD’s eyes. Tippit was 6’3”’ladies man.
Marie,
Tippits widow made a huge scene a week later becauseJohnnie put flowers on JD’s grave. Stephen says its JD thus he and Johnnie got a divorce.
Officer said Stephen constantly followed JD around.
Usually #1 suspect is jealous spouse.
not claiming that .
just wondering if it was ever investigated. Not sure what Stephen looked like in 1963.
Some officers believe it was Stephen and the murder was un related to JFK.
Weird coincidence JD favored JFK and nicknamed Jack by the force
@@ch3blazinggospel669 So the husband of Tippit's mistress drives to 10th and Patton to kill Tippit? That was supposedly her house Tippit was parked in front of. What did he just walk out and shoot him, wave at Oswald and go back inside? I think I could make a better case for Tippit's wife to shoot him. LOL. That doesn't explain the extra cop car. Someone has to account for that. Westbrook and Croy are the only logical alternatives.
@@DavidArbuckle-sc8zc said not likely because police auto .38 just saying it’s plausible motive that should have been investigated
You were not running, you were walking fast. A running camera would bounce up and down not side to side. So your timing is correct to meet one possible scenario. Oswald was walking fast in order to make his meeting with his ride. Someone who plans a murder, logically will also plan his escape route. So the steps he was taking were part of his pre-planned escape route.
If you review the path of Tippit that day he was parked in the Gloco Gas Station at 12:45pm which is the time a description of Oswald was broadcast on the police radio. Tippit possibly realized the description of the shooter was the same description of an individual he had agreed to meet and provide a ride to ?. Tippet was seen leaving the gas station at a high rate of speed and shortly thereafter arrived at the record store where he used the phone, did not get an answer to his call and left quickly. It is possible his was trying to call someone to cancel his agreed pickup now that he was aware of who he had agreed to transport. Tippit does go to the meeting place, confronts Oswald and knows he must take Oswald into custody instead of giving him a ride. Oswald sees this and kills Officer Tippit.
I disagree as someone who runs a fair amount. I've done various half-marathons and a full one. I would definitely describe my motion as jogging or running. I would never see someone moving along as I was and then describe them as, "walking." I'm not sure camera motion is a reliable indicator of the dividing line between what a reasonable person would call walking vs jogging. In my opinion (and it's just that, an opinion), anyone travelling the distance within the allotted time would look very conspicuous. That's what I arrived at anyway by conducting the experiment but that of course doesn't prove or disprove anything about Oswald killing Tippit or not.
You have to start at 1:04 PM and then remember the death certificate is @ 1:15 PM. However, two of the witnesses stated that the shooting took place at 1:06 PM. The Housekeeper states that a cop car stopped in front of the boarding house at the same time Oswald was waiting outside at the bus station and honked twice. Is it possible that Oswald got a ride to the Tippit location from the police? Two witnesses stated that there was a 2nd cop car in the alley blocked by Tippit's car. Capt. Westbrook and Officer Cray were both there. Both are linked to key evidence including the 2nd wallet the 2nd revolver, and the Jacket.
"You have to start at 1:04 PM and then remember the death certificate is @ 1:15 PM."
No, you do not "have to" start at 1:04 pm since it has never been proven that that is the exact time when Oswald left the rooming house. The one and only witness to Oswald arriving at the house and then leaving, Earlene Roberts, never said that he left at exactly 1:04. In her affidavit of December 5, 1963, thirteen days after the assassination, she said:
"On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:OOpm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President’s assassination when a man I knew as 0. H. Lee, but who has since been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, came into the front door and went to his room."
"Approximately" 1 pm is not an exact time. Many people would agree that anywhere from five minutes before 1 pm to five minutes after 1 pm could be considered "approximately," meaning that Oswald could have arrived as late as 1:05 or as early as 12:55. She then said,
"Oswald went to his room and was only there a very few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a dark color and it was the type that zips up the front. He was zipping the jacket up as he left. Oswald went out the front door. A moment later I looked out the window. I saw Lee Oswald standing on the curb at the bus stop just to the right, and on the same side of the street as our house. I just glanced out the window that once."
A "few" minutes is not a specific number of minutes. Many people would agree that a "few" minutes could be as little as three minutes or as much as ten minutes.
Roberts's claims to the Warren Commission on April 8, 1964, were quite similar:
**********
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say because--
Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it.
**********
She said he came in "around" 1 pm or a little after. "Around" one o'clocks, as most people who speak English know perfectly well, does not mean the same thing as "exactly" one o'clock. And "maybe" a little after does not mean the same thing as "definitely" a little after. Also she never said how she knew what time it was. She never mentioned looking at a clock. She merely said that it was after JFK had been shot, but that was already on the news at least as early as 12:45. And see how she also said, "what time I wouldn't want to say," as if she wasn't all that certain?
@@Caeruleo Of course. When you're an apologist you have to disregard inconvenient testimony. Remember she said, the notice had just come on about Kennedy's DEATH. ( I think that was in the Mark Lane interview) So easy enough to check, when it first came on the radio or TV. Okay, so twisting yourself into a pretzel isn't easy when you are promoting the big WR lie, what is your estimate of when Oswald was there and when he left? So you are saying 12:45? So now we have Oswald, shooting Kennedy at 12:30 or so, calmly drinking a coke in the break room minutes after that, and leaving shortly after. Then he gets on a bus and gets out because of the traffic, and takes a Cab. Then he goes past his house, gets out, and walks back to the house, but gets there by 12:45? We have another time check also. Markham said she witnessed the shooting, and she was waiting for the bus, and it picked up for her at 1:06 and it had not come yet. Yikes. Oswald is some kind of superhero in the minds of the Apologists.
Actually the original death certificate said 1:07PM and it was typed over 1:15PM Several Witnesses said they heard shots at 1:06PM.
Anyone work out where he was heading from boarding house and why ??
Would it be a bus depot out of town as he had no transport - but that might be watched by cops.
It’s my opinion that Oswald was headed to Jack Ruby’s apartment which was just a few blocks south of 10th and Patton.
I agree he was definitely headed to meet up with someone and it could have been Ruby.
@@ObjectHistory What evidence shows that Oswald was headed to meet up with someone?
Opinions are not evidence. Do you agree?
J.D.Tippit was pronounced dead at 1:15pm at Methodist Hospital which means he was shot between 1-1:05pm. There is no way Oswald could have killed him.
And it's interesting that Oswald's revolver worked just fine when he shot Tippit but, it had a bent firing pin when he tried to use it at the theater.
No
Tppit was shot at about 1.15pm and pronounced dead at 1.25pm.
@@merylstreep6278 t f bowley was on scene in his car and he arrived and saw tippit already down and dead . he looked at hi s watch and it said 1.10pm . markham having left home at her usual time for work , walked her usual route to get her 1.12 bus on jefferson . she walked one block and said she wouldnt mind betting that it was about 1.07 when tippit was shot . which ties in with bowley arriving a few minutes after .
the 1.15 time is only the logged time of a call made from tippits radio .
@@fobrien1 No, the logged time of the call on Tippit's radio was 1.16pm. As I said, the time of the shooting was 1.15pm.
You say, "ONLY the logged time"?!
That is the only fixed time we have.
Everything else is subordinate to that.
Are you claiming that other people's perceptions are more accurate than the police radio log?!
You are right in saying that Bowley said his watch said 1.10pm, but you are missing the point of that wording. This is 15 years before the arrival of digital watches. I don't know if you are old enough to remember those days but I am. Bowley is not saying that it was 1.10pm. He's saying that his watch said it was 1.10pm.
The same is true of all the others. The timings are all subjective, including the time that Oswald left the boarding house.
The only fixed times are the radio logs and phone logs. We know at what time the Tippit shooting was reported on his police radio and we know what time Julia Postal called the police. Those are logged. Everything else is subjective.
Barbara Davis, Virginia Davis, Scoggins, Callaway, Guinyard and Markham positively identified Oswald in police line ups.
Reynolds, Russell and Patterson positively identified Oswald from a photo.
Even Tatum identified Oswald well over a decade later.
The shells found at the scene were all expelled from Oswald's revolver, to the exclusion of all other weapons. Oswald was arrested with the same revolver, which he used to try to kill the officers who arrested him.
His hands both had powder residue and the test results specifically said that his right hand had deposits "typical of the patterns produced in firing a revolver".
So, in order for you to present a coherent alternative account of how Tippit was killed without Oswald being there, you need to say how someone else, who looked exactly like Oswald, had Oswald's revolver, fired the shots with his revolver and then gave it to him, carefully smearing powder residue onto Oswald's hands in a pattern which made it look as if he had fired a revolver and then disappeared before Oswald was arrested. You then have to explain why Oswald didn't tell his interrogators that someone had approached him in the street and given him a still warm revolver, smearing powder residue on his hands in a pattern which made it look as if he had recently fired a revolver.
@@merylstreep6278 "Bowley is not saying that it was 1.10pm. He's saying that his watch said it was 1.10pm."
And this is a crucial point that anyone who wants to think rationally about the assassination has to understand. You always have to epistemically justify the move from "So-and-so said X," or "So-and-so saw X," to "Therefore, X is true."
Witnesses stated he was walking towards J. D. Tippets' car not away from it. He was headed in the direction of the Movie theater.
who were they?
@@dustyflair - Can’t remember the names but they are identified in Dale Myers “With Malice” which is a good book on the case even if I don’t agree with many of his conclusions. Myers believes that what got Tippits attention was Oswald approaching Tippit and suddenly turn around to avoid him. But if Oswald was initially going east, away from the rooming house, why did he suddenly turn back to encounter Tippit? And what of the several minutes added to the Oswald travel time between the rooming house and the murder?
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Alpha 66 safe house just in the area.
@@dustyflair Run by the Shriners, no doubt....lol
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug! Of course Oswald could have made that walk. He had just killed the president. He had no idea where he was going except that he had to keep moving.
Oh I think he knew where he was going. I think he was looking for his pickup. As LBJ said himself, "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.”
- But he was as cool as a cucumber when a cop stopped him at gunpoint in the TSBD, calmly offered his cab to a woman. How could a 20 second conversation draw Tippit out of the car and why didn’t Tippit radio that he was stopping a suspect? During that time, police were announcing over the radio that they were arresting drunks, handling car accidents and minor shit. Yet Tippit stops who he supposedly thinks is involved in the presidential assassination and does not tell the dispatcher or ask for backup?
Jerry....LHO was well rested too....Afterall he had just gotten off the bus.....
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot He was a deer in the headlights in the lunchroom.
He let the woman have the cab because he didn't want to waste time or make a scene arguing with her.
You'd have to ask Tippit why he didn't call it in, but he's dead so that will forever remain a mystery... but the evidence still points to Oswald panicking and shooting him.
@@dustyflairReally? Who would rest even if he takes a plane after shooting a president?
You ever see that documentary they had done retracing Oswalds steps and timing it?
Over the years I’ve seen just about every doc on the assassination but don’t recall that. Do you know what it’s called?
@@ObjectHistory I can't remember. I've seen so many.over the decades. Got a guy built like Oswald. Wearing same clothes. Starts in TSBD and retraced LHO steps and times them. It was production grade doc. Maybe history channel or NatGeo.
@@ObjectHistory here it is
ruclips.net/video/swMcCNvf-EY/видео.html
Thanks! Wow, I haven’t seen Gary Mack in years. Well the only way to say for certain is to keep the camera rolling as I did so there’s no question about the pace slackening or speeding up. Like I said in my video, we can’t know for certain when he left but they seemed to have given him the longest portion of time possible. If you shave that down, the man’s brisk walk has to turn into a trot IMO and take way more effort than we saw in that video. I’ll try again sometime when I’m fresh and not in the middle of a running day.
@@ObjectHistory you're a good man. The truth is all we strive for
You have the time wrong that Tippet was killed. You are allowing more time. The Warren commission did that as well to make sure they allowed enough time for Oswald.
Lee harvey oswald did not say he was not coming back to rooming house and he did not take everything with him and he did not take any clothes
It would be interesting to learn what happened to the shell casings of the bullets used in this crime. I've heard Oswald dumped them in the bushes and I've heard Tippit was shot with semiauto rounds.
The casings were all matched to Oswald's revolver.
The bus never shows up on time. What would have happened if Oswald stayed in his room? just tell his land lady he became sick after Kennedy was shot.
Police would have shown up in the afternoon.
-His boss Roy Truly had noticed Oswald missing, and he gave Oswalds adress in Irving to the police.
-Police would have shown up in Irving at Ruth Paine and found out, that he lives in that boarding house.
And now my question:
What would have happened, if Oswald
-had worn gloves, when handling his rifle.
-had removed the serial number from his rifle.
-had not left the TSBD after the assassination.
You need to view the video mark lane interviewed a black woman that seen two men at tippet's shooting!
Deputy sheriff was a witnessed that a blue station wagon picked him up at the book depository and left with him after the shooting. He didn’t run. He was taken.
Lol, no.
You stopped on the corner. You still have to get to the house where TIppit's car was parked.
a number of things are wrong with this summary. First there is no mention of the police car that stopped at the boarding house and honked twice. I mention that because it is possible that Oswald was driven to the murder scene. As there was also a 2nd police car in the alley that TIppit's car blocked. The murder did NOT happen at 1:15 PM. That is what is on the Death Certificate. (actually it was typed over the original time of death @ 1:09 PM.
And the point of "driving Oswald to the murder scene" was WHAT, exactly???
@@aaronz7056 Unlike you, I do not deal in absolutes when we don't really know because the crimes were not investigated. So unlike you I am open to the idea that Oswald may have been involved. ( I do not have a dog in the race) I think it is highly unlikely, but I have to consider the fact that the housekeeper gave the number of the car and stated there were two cops in it. I believe Oswald took the bus to the theater and met his contact in the theater. Both were arrested. Oswald in the front and his contact in the back. I think the murder of Tippit was done by the cops in the Police Car in the alley, and it was not the original plan but it became necessary when Oswald had escaped Captain Westbrook on the bus and then later at his boarding house. Westbrook or Tippit was sujpposed to murder Oswald, but Tippit was killed instead, and he,(Westbrook or Croy did it with the help of a Jack Ruby friend. Larry Cawfard.
@@DavidArbuckle-sc8zc No, here's what you do:
a) give your middle finger to the family of a decorated police officer slain in the line of duty, and to the families of Westbrook and Croy, as you opine away without evidence these men were conspirators, murderers and traitors so long as it suits your crackpot "theories"
b) give that same middle finger to Ruth Paine as you libel her dozens of times over as a conspirator without evidence when not despicably posting about such things as how "interesting" it is she is "maybe gay"
c) summarily dismiss evidence wholesale without comment and replace it all in your narrative with uncorroborated speculation (eg., your ridiculous "theater contact" story above)
d) tell one demonstrable crackpot lie after another, then double down on them when called out on them
e) flatly refuse to explain how anybody framing Oswald could possibly have known all the things they would have had to know in order to do so, then just keep insisting he was framed again and fully expect to be accorded full credibility for that claim
f) dodge direct questions put to you with one hilarious excuse after another to not answer them, like "I don't respond to WC shills" like that settles the matter...
Why would Oswald or anybody for that matter be running and not walking ?
The only people who run are runners who are training
@rockshox08 Bingo. He had already been cleared by the police officer and the building manager at the Book Depository. Why would he be frantic? He stuck around long enough to drink a coke.
Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy,
and may not have shot Tippit.
how do people know the exact minute oswald started walking? The land lady had it right to the exact minute? What if it was 3 mins sooner or 4 mins sooner? Lol Right?
He had less time to get there than acknowledged by the Warren Commission.
Earlene Roberts' testimony has him waiting at a bus stop at about 1.05 p.m. and Domingo Benavides' testimony precludes the shooting taking place later than 1.12 p.m.
Oswald could not have walked there in seven minutes.
He could not have got here by bus, either.
Benavides' description of the man's hair and jacket do not fit Oswald's, either.
He shot Tippit, he was seen doing it, he was seen fleeing, he exchanged words with one witness, he was caught red-handed trying to shoot a second cop minutes later with the gun used on Tippit, etc.
@@aaronz7056 You haven't addressed the points made by Philip Skalla.
@@aaronz7056 There's often a great difference between what a witness saw and actually what the witness says they saw, but if you're going rest your case on what witnesses say they saw then you'll have to accept that there was a shooter on the grassy knoll.
@@tonyoliver2750 Oswald arrived at the rooming house at approx. one o'clock and Tippit was shot fifteen minutes later, and that walk between the two locations has been recreated (heck, anybody could recreate it now, and many have filmed themselves doing it) successfully enough to demonstrate Oswald could be at both locations just fine.
Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable but before we let Oswald off the hook for the killing based on Benavides' words nearly a dozen people ID'd Oswald after he was in custody: Markham, V. Davis, B. Davis, Callaway, Guinyard, Reynolds, Russell, Patterson, Lewis. This is pretty damning stuff...
@@tonyoliver2750 How about also resting my case on ballistics evidence, logic, Oswald's own damning actions and words?
Like a cult or religion, those who were taught at a much younger age by the authority figures in their lives that indeed there was a conspiracy and LHO wasn't the shooter are most likely to keep defending that position even in adulthood, due to their emotional attachment to the story.
Right, like LBJ who believed there was a conspiracy. Which authority figure told him to believe that exactly? Or Robert Kennedy, who was the head of all law enforcement during the investigation and believed the same. Let's see, there's also J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI at the time. I could keep going. I don't mind someone challenging the concept that there was a conspiracy but that is a very flimsy charge you made. Important people at the highest levels of government during the investigation privately believed others were involved in the crime. That is historical fact. They probably based their opinion on more than a cult-like mentality.
Many people believe there was a conspiracy solely due to the Oliver Stone movie JFK and without exploring it for accuracy.
That route going East is IMPOSSIBLE because the witnesses in the neighborhood (Smith, Burt, Smith, Archer, Brewer) all saw the man walking WEST!!!!
- Exactly. Even Dale Myers agrees with this. Plus it is consistent with Tippit’s killer continuing west after killing Tippit. Problem is, this adds several minutes to Oswald’s travel time and doesn’t explain the change in direction. I think Tippit had some past unfriendly encounter with his killer and this was just a chance encounter.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Chance encounter my eye, multiple witnesses ID'd Oswald and what the heck are the odds some unidentified guy with a grudge against Tippit (even though there is no evidence of one existing) would happen to run into him at 10th and Patton in Oak Cliff at that moment... and then decided to go completely insane gun him down on a public street in broad daylight with people nearby....
@@aaronz7056 Why would the killer be insane? Why would Oswald feel the need to shoot Tippit, after all the handgun in his possession wasn't used to kill JFK and Tippit would have had no other reason to suspect Oswald.
@@tonyoliver2750 You haven't done ANY reading on this case, have you? lol
Possibly because he knew he had killed Kennedy, he had left his own rifle behind, he knew he had fled the plaza and that fact would soon be noticed, quite probably already.
You're letting him off the hook for this, then weirdly insisting I provide you with alternate explanations for his actions other than him being guilty of the assassination!
You know full well an APB was out for the man seen in the window and Tippit would have heard it and only blocks away would have noticed this slender young white guy walking down the street and turning on his heel and walk away on seeing him. Of course he was suspicious enough to want a closer look at him.
@@aaronz7056 How would I know whether an APB was out if I haven't done "...any reading on this case..."? Make your mind up Aaron Z.
And I'm not letting anyone off the hook (even you), I merely asking you, politely. a few questions, which you seem reluctant to answer. A slender young white guy? Well that narrows the search. How many slender young white guys were there in Dallas in 1963? If the description of Oswald was based on what some people observed looking up at the sixth floor window of the TSBD how could they know he was slender, or what height he was or what he was wearing? And good luck estimating someone's age from a brief glimpse looking up from Dealey Plaza at a sixth floor window. Even if Oswald closely fitted a more detailed description, he had nothing on him to connect him with the assassination of JFK, so I'll ask you once again, what motive would Oswald have to shoot Tippit?
NB You don't know that Oswald had left his rifle behind, perhaps someone else had put it there. Is that an impossibility, especially if you needed a patsy?
I've seen a lot of your replies to other people and it's clear you've swallowed the narrative of the WC, hook, line and sinker. I on the other hand, am reluctant to assume the honesty of anyone in a position of power so I will continue to ask questions.
Excellent video. But the verbal exchange between Tippit and Oswald did not last 2 minutes- more like 30 seconds. The shooting likely occurred at 1:15 pm. The first call on the radio was made by a witness at 1:17 pm. Several people have done the same thing you have using someone of Oswald’s height and build. Walking at a brisk pace, not jogging, it can be done in less than 11 minutes if you use the Crawford route, presumably faster if they took your Patton route. So that puts Oswald at the scene in time to shoot Tippit. But with little time to spare. Regardless of how Oswald got there, we know that he did. We know that Tippit was shot with Oswald’s .38 revolver because the firing pin markings on the ejected shells match up to the exclusion of all other guns. Numerous witnesses saw Oswald do it and picked him out of a line up. Oswald discarded his jacket behind the Texaco service station. He was seen evading the police by turning his back to the street whenever a police car went by on Jefferson Ave. And of course, the most telling fact is that he sneaked into the Texaco Theater and when police tried to apprehend Oswald, he tried to shoot the arresting officer with the same .38 that was used to kill Tippit. Does it really make sense that if Oswald were innocent he would take a gun to the movie theater, enter without paying and then try to shoot a police officer in the theater? It does make sense if you are a fugitive and running away after shooting a policeman in front of multiple witnesses.
Well I disagree on the certainty that Oswald did it or most especially did it alone. The bullets and shells not matching up seems highly suspicious to me, as does the incredibly convenient ‘wallet’ drop. The most interesting part to me is the why of this spot if you will... a spot frequented by JDT so much that a homeowner thought he lived there. And Oswald just happens to walk with a serious purpose to end up there of all places? Thanks for watching! Just a spur of the moment decision really as mentioned in the video.
Object History Actually the bullets and the shells match up perfectly. They were .38 specials. In 1963, ballistics could not make a legally positive identification on the bullets, because Oswald had purchased a Smith & Wesson that was designed for British .38 caliber bullets which are slightly larger than .38 specials. This prevented the bullet from making complete contact with the barrel and thus not enough markings in 1963 to make a positive ID. However, even in 1963, most ballistics experts opined that it was highly likely that the bullets recovered from Tippit matched Oswald’s revolver. Subsequently, advances in forensic science have enabled today’s experts to make a 100 percent match to Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all other guns. Were it not for the enormity of Oswald’s shocking crimes, most people would not waste time arguing Oswald’s innocence. This was an ironclad case of murder. The evidence against Oswald is simply overwhelming. A jury wouldn’t have had to deliberate more than 30 minutes to deliver a guilty verdict.
@@spudrain Who has confirmed in modern times that the bullets were fired from Oswald's gun to the exclusion of all other weapons with 100% certainty? I'll be happy to look that up if you have a citation. Regardless, as I assume you know, the cartridges and slugs do not match up in terms of manufacturers. From the Warren Commission, "Three of the bullets recovered from Tippit's body were manufactured by Winchester-Western, and the fourth bullet by Remington-Peters, but only two of the four discarded cartridge cases found on the lawn at 10th Street and Patton Avenue were of Winchester-Western manufacture." As an article from the School of Law, University of Georgia concluded, "Even accepting that Oswald owned and possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the FBI had been fired from that weapon, therefore, the ballistics evidence is questionable."
Overall though you misunderstand me as I'm willing to believe Oswald was a party to the assassination but that there were others involved and he was exactly what he said he was, a patsy, the fall guy.
Again, 'Oswald' dropping his wallet at the murder site is highly suspicious to me. 1) No eye witness had Oswald or whoever approached the squad car take out a wallet. 2) I'm the only one I've ever seen point this out... so Oswald didn't keep his money in his wallet? I mean, after all he was found in the Texas Theater with something like $100 in terms of today's cash (I plugged it into an inflation calculator a long time ago out of curiosity, it was something like that) on him but he just happened to leave the wallet at the murder scene but take the cash? 3) As I've said, Tippit is at this favorite, quiet spot of his and Oswald just happens to haul ass from the boarding house fast enough to get there for that fateful meeting. Why? Was it really just coincidence? Could have been. 4) But, we also know Tippit rushed to get to that spot for no apparent reason. Minutes before his death and 6/10's of a mile away, he rushed into a store to use their phone, didn't get an answer to whoever he was calling and then drove off quickly, also making it in the nick of time for the fateful encounter at his usual hangout spot.
Object History The books by Bugliosi, Posner and Dale Myers are all very sound. Myers, a former conspiracy believer, does a good job of debunking the wallet mystery as well as some of the other lore surrounding Tippit. From the start, the shell casings were tied to Oswald’s .38 based upon the firing pin indentations. Initially, the bullets recovered from Tippit’s body could not be matched to Oswald’s gun with absolute legal certainty, though most said it was likely a match. Dale Myers goes into recent advancements in ballistics technology that have now made it possible to make a 100% match.
In every case, there are strange anomalies and coincidences. The conspiracy theorists seize upon these anomalies to claim there was a conspiracy. They are not proof of Oswald’s innocence or of a conspiracy. You have to look at the bigger picture, the eyewitnesses, Oswald’s actions after the assassination, and his behavior in the Texas Theater.
The conspiracy theorists remind me of the old parable of the elephant and a group of blind men who had never encountered an elephant. They each feel different parts of the elephant and think it’s something other than an elephant. For example, one blind man feels the Elephant’s trunk and believes it to be a thick snake. Another feels the elephant’s leg and thinks it’s a tree. But if you are able to see the whole elephant and you know for a fact that it is an elephant, the fact that there is evidence that might indicate that it’s a snake or a tree doesn’t mean it’s not an elephant.
The fundamental flaw of conspiracy thinking, and not just JFK conspiracy thinking, is there is too much focus upon the minutia and anomalies and not enough attention to the facts and the big picture.
@@spudrain OK, I ask you to bear with me as I try to make this as concise as possible.
You have to be just as careful with conmen trying to convince you of one side (lone gunman) as you do of the other (conspiracy).
LBJ, "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.” Did you know he said that? It's a fact. Did you know that the president, the head of the FBI and the Attorney General (Bobby Kennedy of course) all disbelieved the lone gunman theory? I challenge you to really think about that new (to you) data point... the president and the two men over all of the U.S. investigative bodies, all with the highest level of security clearance possible... and not even one of out of the three believed the lone gunman theory Posner, et al push.
You find Bugliosi and Posner credible? Posner is a certified liar and plagiarizer... Google it. Did you know that? Meanwhile, Bugliosi was a former prosecutor. Is a prosecutor's job to give both sides a fair chance? No, it's to convince the jury that the defendant is guilty at all costs. I could go on forever with the omissions and misrepresentations in both of those books. And then there's Meyers. He created the famous computer animation that was used in the even more famous Peter Jennings special (40th anniversary). That animation is a lie and I can easily, easily, prove that to you if you like. I'm not joking. Anyway, convincing someone of one side by omitting conflicting data instead of dealing with it, etc. is not a real attempt to solve a case. All three of those books are intellectually dishonest. I wrote a history book praised by multiple people with doctorates in history, I have some skill in seeing real vs faux historical research.
Back to the bullets, you still haven't addressed the basic fact I listed, that the slugs and casings do not match up in terms of manufacturer. They just don't, this is an uncontested fact and always has been. Meanwhile, I do not believe you can cite a scientifically validated, peer reviewed experiment, etc. that proves what you claimed, that the bullets have been matched to Oswald's gun with 100% certainty. Google that claim and tell me what credible scientific journal is making this claim, or has the FBI officially concurred? Did any major media outlet claim this? I'm sure you know science works, a claim has to be verified by other scientists working independently. Only then is the theory considered valid, right? Has this happened with Meyer's claims?
I humbly submit that you've let yourself be convinced by one-sided, prosecutorial briefs. Those are the only kinds of sources you mentioned. Can you imagine what the conviction rate in this country would be if defendant's didn't have lawyers to counter the prosecutor's case in court, to question it, to poke the holes (if any) in their claims? Go ahead and ask any prosecutor how easy their job would be if only they could make their case to the jury. Then think about how 'convincing' the three sources you mentioned were.
If he was going to the Texas theatre. Why did he end up on 10th and Patton?
That is the opposite way of the theater?
He probably had no idea where he was going.
At 115 jd tippit was pronounced dead at the hospital