Use code "TOMMO" for $5 off your first #Sakuraco box through my link: team.sakura.co/MrTommo2304 or your first #TokyoTreat box through my link: team.tokyotreat.com/MrTommo2304 Did the Soul Society Arc have a stronger version of the Gotei 13 than TBTP, TYBW, or any other time in Bleach? Let me know your thoughts and opinions down in the comments!
I think its strong enough to call it the strongest we know ... yet. The original Gotei 13 should have a massiv power div to the soul society Arc Gotei 13. Each original captain should be able to defeat several captains of the Soul society arc by their own. That would be very awesome
Completely disagree. Most of these characters are at their weakest at this stage. And multiple are so weak as to be killed by future threats or less (lookin at you cricket dude killed by vice hisagi) In fact, the only cap/vice team that's at their strongest is the 1st and maybe 2nd.
I think it's often underrated how powerful Gin was. The guy toyed with a hollow ask, bankai Ichigo who had just received yet ANOTHER powerup. Plus his Shikai and Bankai while simple are deceptively powerful. Even without the one shot poison. It's a shame we didn't get to see how much stronger Gin would have gotten in the TYBW.
He's strong. Even aizen stopped bankai ichigo sword with his bare hands. And people saying aizens avoiding zaraki. They forgot zaraki was beaten by shikai ichigo. Aizen doesn't recruit weakling, only the strong.
@@jasonrelech1020 zaraki is defo not weaker than shikai ichigo despite losing to it. But still, zaraki would lose to aizen pretty easily like everyone else.
Gin Ichimaru is my favorite character. Honestly I think Gin would've THRIVED in Shisui's Soul Society, Gin with his sneaky nature and ability to put morals aside for the sake of pragmatism and efficiency in completing the mission would've done well with Shisui's "Win at any cost." Mentality. I honestly think Soul Society suffered under Shisui without Ukitake to balance him out, they could've done with allot less deaths and TYBWA would've been a perfect opportunity to showcase squad 2 taking a counter stealth invasion of the Wandenreich with Gin and Soi-fon being the generals on that front I could see them taking Quincy territory.
@@BlackChapters He didn't hate the Gotei. He hated Aizen for what he did to Matsumoto and he wanted to be close to Aizen to kill him so he used the Gotei 13 as a means to an end to kill Aizen. If Aizen was written to have turned traitor after Ywach was defeated he would've went with him then too. Gin wasn't going to leave Soul Society as long as Aizen was in it.
You should do a create your own Gotei 13. Like pick the person you'd want to be captain, lieutenant, and third seat out of every person that's ever been in that division.
The Gotei 13 had multiple shifts in power from pre timeskip to TYBW around No breaths from hell. I however am glad to see that they move into the next generation with new Shinigami captains and vice captains.
Hey, I just wanted to say y'all had the best Sakuraco segment. I like seeing content creators try the boxes out and I actually love the idea, but sometimes it comes off really cheesy or forced. You guys did great and made a wholesome moment out of the segment!
"If tomorrow you were to turn into a snake began devouring humans, if with that mouth you said, "I love you", would I be able to say, "I love you" the same way I do now?"
Idk if it's fair to count Gin and Aizen into the Gotei strength, since it's clearly implied (at least in Aizens case and by association Gins too) that they where sandbaging their combat skills and its unlikely that they would go full out when fighting for the Soul Society
I would think that if they were put in a "show Your full power or die" situation, they would most certainly go all out on their opponents. Of course I'm well aware that for Aizen to go 100% the danger would have to be almost incomprehensible.
Really curious what Aizen would have done if the Quincy invasion happened before his betrayal. Would he have tipped his hand about the truth of his zanpaktou?
The final battle indicates that Aizen never gained the ability to stop his own hypnosis so it's doubtful he would have revealed the truth while using shikai. It would become a relevant point if an opponent attempted to steal his 'bankai' when he wasn't using one (or we would discover that Aizen is a compulsive liar and was using bankai the whole time he was chiding people who were wondering when he would activate shikai).
He would have kept the facade and even used his defence of the Soul Society to, - Assuming Ichigo would have his presence there... Imagine Yhwach's invasion interrupting Rukia's planned execution, coming in before Aizen pretends he's dead and Ichigo drops in on the mess.- take up arms against the Quincies and use that has an excuse to actually get to the Reio's palace!
@@LadyMorgaine1976I don’t think that would have been smart for him to go to the royal palace at that point. He would have been beaten quickly. Think about it. By that point, he wouldn’t have gone through the metamorphosis with the hogyoku which means he would have been vastly outclassed
@@gammafrost But by then he might have had the unwilling help of other Shinigami, even if through the use of his Zanpakuto to somehow trick them into going up there with him. Or he could just wait for Yhwach to kill the Reio, present himself as the saviour of Soul Society and "offer" himself to take on its place. Anything is possible really...
Not sure if it’s fair to say nemu has the same capabilities during the ss arc, since the whole point of her character arc in tybw was to show that she had evolved over time and gained the capabilities as she grew, even if she technically did possess the same power inside all along (honestly kinda like kenpachi)
Talking about the different iterations of the Gotei 13 made me think, how many large scale threats have they faced between their original war against the Quincy and the start of the series? It seems like the relatively short amount of time from the Soul Society arc to the end of the series accelerated the strength growth of so many captains/vice captains compared to their predecessors who spent centuries to be as strong (or not even as strong) as the EoS captains
I'd say between the constant Hollow fighting and obsessive training they did become formidable but complacent. More importantly the last confrontations with the Quincies where one sided slaughters of mostly non combatants, this also explains why many Shinigami are either fight obsessed or alcoholics. The Quincies learned from the last experiences and prepared accordingly.
Ultimately they were strong but in the end the Quincies showed that it was a facade. However now in the postwar era Shunsui has initiated a series of reforms that make it far easier to join Gotei 13 including removing the old exclusionary, highly selective recruitment policies while installing a fast track internship first step to join program alongside prioritizing true skills over origins.
@@mystic1360 They put them near collapse. A significant majority of Shinigami foots soldiers and officers were wiped out, thus forcing Shunsui to initiate these flexible, fast track recruitment and training policies. WDKALY confirmed that something like 50% of their total strength was wiped out in the fighting with extensive damage to Seiritei.
@@mystic1360 Indeed. They also suffered heavy casualties at the Academy, many new recruits and instructors were massacred and only the timely arrival and stand by Mashahiro alongside others preventing a 100% casualty count.
@@manuelacosta9463 50% of their total strength, or 50% or their total soldiers? Because I think that 50% of their total strength was wiped out when Yamamoto died.
You are so correct on the ’turn back the pendulu-arc'! just imagine If it was Shinjn & Aizen that went rogue together! How the f**k do you beat that combo? Everything is upside down and reversed… and when you realize it… you still have no clue that you are still in a illusion!! Thats f**ked up! 🤯🤯🤯😂😂😂
While it didn't get much focus, I feel that the fifth division under Aizen/Gin could potentially be stronger than under Shinji/Aizen but it's hard to say for sure
The one thing i think was missed on is the cohesiveness of the Gotei 13. The Gotei from the Soul Society arch is one who will not work together in almost any way, as we see in the Anime, where almost every captain has a totally different goal than another, and often are in direct conflict with one another, even to the point where many of the captains do not follow commands from their Leader Old Man Yama. And so i actually struggle to see this group of highly powered, but fragmented Gotei doing much better, if not even worse in the TYBW than the one we saw go through that event.
@@SylvisNuvara but thats assuming those two, or Tosin, actually fight on the side of the soul society instead of using the invasion as their own chance to rebel, as they did in the first arch. And if three of the thirteen captains arent fighting on the side of the Soul Society, that is going to be much weaker. If you think of the TYBW happening before ichigo got his powers, which is how im thinking of it, i think the Gotei does undeniably worse in almost every way.
I think another point to consider is the Gotei 20 years prior with Isshin may have also had Kaien alive at the time which would further bolster that version‘s strength
I really think it depends on what you value more. If you want a more balanced Gotei 13, I would say SS or EBTR is the best iteration. But, if you think having characters like Kenpachi, Toshiro, Byakuya, Renji and Mayuri at a way higher level makes up for some of the new untested Captains and Lieutenants, I could see why you would rather pick the Hell arc version. I think a big point is that while Ukitake is supposed to be very powerful, we never really get a good idea of how strong he really is. Especially when compared to Yama, Unohana and Shunsui, who are all clearly shown to be absolute powerhouses. So until we get to see Ukitake's full potential, I would say Rukia makes for a more impressive 13th Division Captain, especially when she has had 12 years to master her Bankai.
I'd say from a military standpoint, the Gotei under Shunsui is vastly superior to any iteration that Yama would have. Shunsui would do everything he can, use any tactic to win. Yama would never have unleashed Aizen against the Quincy.
Shunsui's the scarier type of general. He may not rival Yama's raw power but his cunning and military prowess makes me look at him as this type of leader who thinks "let's try my crazy idea, I think it works" and this approach is just unnerving both for the allies and enemies
Honestly, Yama does not do well when on the backfoot. That said his immense power means he normally is at worst on equal footing or the one to be overcome.
6:22 kenpachi’s katana always bothered me here, I get his blade is supposed to be battle worn and chipped down. But how are some parts poking out wider than the habaki?
You could chalk that up to leaking reiastu. Kenpachi obviously isn't going full blast, but at least some of his constantly leaking reiastu would be leaking out of the sword blade making it grow.
When you were talking about the tenth squad I thought you were gonna mention the fact rangiku didn't have a large or significant portion of her power which would render he weaker or temper her potential, which is a crazy thing to think about since shes a lieutenant
Tough for me to really say 100%. Yamamoto having his bankai where it was, presumably, and Aizen even pre-hogyoku very likely puts the SS arc at their peak...but Yoruichi and Kisuke were very much far superior to their replacements and that loss in power should be taken into account. Then Isshin leaving. I would like to think that SS Aizen wasn't enough to make up for their loss even with Gin being stronger than most probably gave him credit for back then too. Byakuya seems like he could be stronger than Ginrei but we don't really know I guess. I'd say it's close between SS arc and TBTP's team. Yama, Unohana, Shunsui, and maybe Ukitake (who just gets weaker as the years go) are the only constants in power. The revolving cast is what decides this and I think Yoruichi and Kisuke are just overall stronger than a majority, if not all, of those that came after barring Aizen 1v1 and Kenpachi at the end.
@@samanasukesamada Yoruichi maybe in "certain department" but not Kisuke as he is literally one of the 5 war potential and contribute overall the most in the war beside pure fighting power
@@samanasukesamada we've seen what both captains can do. Kisuke likely bodies everyone besides the 4 constants and EoS Byakuya and Kenpachi most likely. And for the latter you just have to outlast him until he beats himself for now. Yoruichi literally just owns people bare handed without the use of even shikai. It'd be pretty stupid to think her sword skills are anything less than equal but that's my biggest gripe with how Kubo did her character. We'll never know the true extent of her ability.
Honestly, I think SS arc wins the top 3 pure shinigami in the series that we have seen so far I think in order of strongest to weakest Yama Aizen Gin you can say a lot about Gins strengths and weaknesses but unless u can stop a one shot abilty or be like yama and just out perform in all categories i think you lose to gin in most situations so that mean SS arc has the 3 strongest shinigami even considering EOS captains while i do think Yoruichi is a big improvement over soifon I dont think she developed her shunko yet and idk where her zanpakto is im go with the theory its a secret of her family and for kisuke Im really big fan and in a 1 v 1 he is stronger then Mayuri but tbh he can never actually beat Mayuri hes too slippery man made himself near immortal without a hogyoku and no matter what anyone in the series says Mayuri is the smartest character in the series yeah Kisuke created half of the hogyoku but got to remember it was never compelte without aizen but Mayuri did something no one else in the series has done he found a way to create a soul which no others have shown the abilty to do so purely from a scientific stand point i dont think its a downgrade and he can make up his combat ability with his weird shit.
@@matthewsmith4483 I don't think even under the influence of the hardest of drugs on the planet would you see me say Gin is above Unohana, Shunsui, or Ukitake. (who I guess doesn't count as pure shinigami maybe?) I can respect your opinion on Mayuri but I can't put him above Kisuke in any regard. Especially here where it's strength/power based and Mayuri doesn't rival him there imo.
I think we need some new characters or more abilities because I seem to notice that enemies have that bit of a ridiculous none physical, there are some that's why I like mayuri, less physical but takes the intelligence to out wit. Kenpachi will always be my favourite.
This video makes me want a follow up of what batch of vice captains are the strongest. Anyways, I think the TBTP era Gotei is the strongest. It has every single major powerhouse (albeit some weaker back then) that everything in the future has, as well as some others. Despite what was later said about the original Gotei 13, the TBTP era has Urahara, Aizen, Yoruichi, Gin, Sasakibe, Yamamoto, Shunsui, Ukitake, Hikifune, and Unohana in their ranks although not all at captains. 5 of these characters are from the original Gotei 13 era, 1 is zero division worthy, and all should be with little argument on par with the original captains. If you figure that some of the weaker original Gotei and at quite the same level as these characters there's probably a good argument that just before TBTP the Gotei 13 are as strong as they've ever been.
This was a great video. I have a potential video idea, what if instead of just ranking the soul society captains, you rank all of the capital s in their strongest versions, apart from maybe Individuals we know close to nothing about such as iba, or kiganjo.
Mr Tommo while i agree with you about the tybw ending captains being the weakest form of the gotei 13. We also have to consider the partners they have now. Nel, grimmjow, the fullbringers, some quincy which are captain level, an overpowered Ichigo, also relaible guys like kisuke and yoruichi. So they have powerful partners that can rival the SS captains.
I think soul society gotei 13 was the strongest overall including the first set 1000 years ago. Azien and Yammato are outliers and tip the scale, I also think old Yammato is stronger than his previous self. Yuhawch stated his bankai has evolved. Also I don't see the old captains eclipising Ukitaka, Shunsui and Unohnana(consider her on par with her old self).
The strongest was right before the Hollowification incident. You still get Aizen and Yama and the old guard. But you replace Mayuri+Nemu with Urahara+Mayuri, essentially Hinamori with Hirako, Soifon with Yoruichi, and just gain the Kido Corps back. Losing Byakuya and getting a weaker Gin hurts, but the rest should be fine.
@@aidanklobuchar1798 nice analysis, if one compares just captains before and after, its one thing, but taking into account Aizen and Mayuri were in there in turn back the pendulum is really not a minor factor. Id still choose the soul society arc version I guess, because probably Mayuri and Aizen have gotten considerably stronger in those 100 years; also I'd say Kenpachi is stronger that his counterpart. But it's a though decision.
@@Ligatmarping I'm sort of assuming that Aizen hasn't gotten much stronger. Him feeling capped out was his stated motivation for developing his Hougyoku, which was a bit before TBTP. And even then he easily stopped some of Tessai's spells. Mayuri is certainly much weaker/less developed, but I'd take early Mayuri over SS Akon and/or Nemu..
@@aidanklobuchar1798 yeah youre probably right. I thought of Aizen fearing that limit as his motivation, not having reached the limit, but I'll take your point.
@LigatMarping I believe he was dead, but I would need to double check. I believed he died around a similar time to when Renji and Co were overwhelmed by Hollows during their time in the academy.
@@RFDN0 yes probably, with Ichimaru yet being lieutenant, but I dont know if Kaien event was stated to be in that moment, Rukia has a time in his squad before it happened; I guess its unknown but probably he already died, yeah.
Soi fon did manage to discover a technique that may have existed previously, but obviously she was never shown it nor had it explained to her or she wouldn’t think she’d created it. It also turns out that it’s basically the ultimate technique for someone in her position (nobody else in the division nor soul society as a whole use it or again she’d know what it was) that nobody bothered to explain. It’s played as she’s naive and inexperienced but tbh that’s pretty damn impressive.
That cast in particular, each all of their powers revealed in and leading up to TYBW, it's a pretty scary group. Just Yamamoto with both arms in Bankai simply isn't beatable. It doesn't matter what powers someone else has if they cant even exist anywhere near you without being erased from said existence.
@MrTommo... Please do a video of what would the 13Gotei look like if Toshiro was an old men leader of the 1st division, and Yamamoto was a child prodigy like Toshiro...
I think Aizen, Gin and Tousen has a similar type of dilema to them as Unohana. Yes they are strong, but would they actually fight for the Soul Society? At the time they were planning to betray the SS, and I think it very unlikely that, in case of some enemy attacking SS, they would react in a way that was actually beneficial to the SS. They might pretend to help, but really use the situation to weaken the Gotei or something... I think that much more likely than Unohana not using her fighting ability in a crisis tbh. She has just put her violent ways aside, she hasn't actually forgotten who she were or has a split personality or something
Thoughts on the vid. BTW, I'd love for you to possibly rank captains by Spiritual pressure, because I had a recent revelation from rereading TYBWA that Ukitake had the most Spiritual pressure in the SOUL SOCIETY. Look up him referencing his "sickness" to avoid spoilers on my comment. I wonder if the stealth force would actually try to kill yoruichi since I thought shes still a princess and their job is to keep her safe? the one negative thing I had about the arrancar arc is there was a perfectly good opportunity to kill off Omaeda and they didn't do it... what a shame. "with two of the three smartest people as captains in this arc"... Me - so inferior to the prior gotei's level of intelligence as Kisuke was able to accomplish much more advanced things without either of them running anything lol While I agree that there are a ton of unknowns with the final Gotei, I still think they are the strongest. Why? In short, they may have the most Hax of them all. Two comparable Ice Bankai are busted. Who needs Ryu Jin Jakka, when you can have two opposites that can be utilized together or separately? shunsui is looking more like his bankai than ever, and I'd argue that he would have better tactics than Yama as he (to me) is the most merciless of them all once pushed to that end. Nozerashi and the ability to cut literally anything by a guy who can fight for weeks it seems. Byakuya post Soul Palace training boosted his power significantly (whatever this really means in practice however. are is petals now bigger? unbreakable? what? ) while his Shikai got an upgrade closer to his old bankai. additional bankai that exist after this period vs the SS arc is significant so it's interesting to me to see the SS arc being claimed to be the strongest since I am assuming that also means the extra bankai achieved here by the VC are not significant? Ikkaku, Renji, etc. Downsides to this arc Gotei Soifon is still sadly in charge of a squad yet can't kill one main opponent without assistance ( Barragon box, Urahara "Black pill") but that's a negative to every arch she's a captain. she does get stronger in the shunpo though? Unknowns Of course, Aizen isn't out of the muken.. Yet, but in around 18,799 years he apparently will be, and if there were a threat during this time, I assume he'd probably assist. I don't recall this but did Central 46 take time off his sentence for assisting the SS in killing Ywach? Captains Lisa, Isane, and Tetsuzaemon both obviously have bankai (since they are captains and it's a requirement for all who gain a position outside of squad 11) but I don't want to add them as a weight just yet. also.. would Ichigo just become a captain when he dies? will he die or age in any significant way, or will he just stop living in the meat suit and go be a future Gotei Captain at some point with orihime? I mean, Orihime doesn't ever have to die if she doesn't want to lol. she can just reverse time when she wants lol.
Yeah, idk if I agree with this, end of war arc goteis pretty cracked. The like only question is... is it cracked enough to deal with Aizen and Yamamoto being gone? I'd say yes. Aizen in the SS arc wasn't evolved yet, and he legit didn't wanna fight Kenpachi til he was. So I'd argue end of series Kenpachi with his powers unlocked alone probably over powers base aizen. And then add on shikai and bankai? Yeah. Aizen seems to consider Kenny a tier above himself. Just like Yamamoto. And then add on Byakuya, and Adult Toshiro? I think the trio that fought Girard are strong enough to compensate for Aizen and Yamamoto. And then look at how basically every other captain and vice captain got stronger too.
I pray that kubo not only continues and finishes the hell arc .. but I hope that gin gets major appearances . A few battles . All of that jazz. I couldn’t help but think of how ulquiorra and gin would’ve wrecked the sternritter . Perhaps not wrecked but they would’ve aided tremendously . Ulquiorra with his intelligence , cold calculations , and hollow reishi to combat the power craze of the sternritter . Gin would’ve gave almost all of them except jugram and Lille a fight for their money .
Soifon's ruthlessness and strict/potentially lethal discipline in this time certainly compromised Squad 2's effectiveness, not just that they were facing Yoruichi. They showed no real initiative and where visibly stiff. Undoubtedly they subconsciously did not want to displease and risk the wrath of Soifon. That's the main problem with such a harsh authoritarian environment. I'm sure Yoruichi had a frank talk with Soifon afterwards showing her that it's far better to have actual comrades rather than expendable pawns, a reflection of her old command.
3:40, to be fair to squad 11, you should consider Zaraki and Ikaku, not Yachiru ;) Yachiru being lieutenant is more just because "Zaraki said that", not because of her power level. But apart from that :)
While overall I'd agree with your assessment, I still think the massive boosts in power of some characters by the end of the series can alone make the last version comparable if not more powerful. But as a whole this group is definitely more well rounded and understood in scaling, so I can't argue your logic behind it
As for everything but the rain, youd gain Isshin as captain, but lose a lot with Kira, Momo, Toshiro, and Renji. At that point, Renji is still a seated officer in 11th division and likely still a bit weaker than Ikkaku. Unsure when Kira and Momo became lieutenants, or if they were even seated officers at that point. Kira might even be 4th division, as he spend time there as well. So gain a powerful captain, but lose Renji's bankai, and possibly Toshiro's as well...as he was a third seat at the time, having been a shinigami only 10-15 years.
I don't know if you'll see this but,I just had a thought what would an interaction look like with aizen and the former members of his espada look like in the 1000 year blood war🤔
"So for fairness' sake...we're not counting those guys. Gettem outta here!" That line is hilarious. Also, I really love this idea being thrown around the comments of seeing your ultimate Gotei 13 lineup, and I'm including captains and vice captains as well in that. I think each captain is complimented very well by their second in command, and they wouldnt be the captains they are without those vice captains
Idk. I wouldn't put Tousen under Soifon or Hitsugaya pre TYBW. Hitsugaya was struggling against Grimmjaws lackeys to even cut him[i know, the limiters], while Tousen cuttin Grimmjaws hand off and putting him in his place. He took down Kensei before even becoming a captain while Soifon at the time was fangirling over Yoroichi. She did good against Baragan but that was mostly Hachi in my opinion whereas Tousen fought komomora and Hisagi and had them on the ropes
Tosen imo was stronger than ss hitsugaya ( could more easily defeat the same opponent ) but would lose to him because 1 the difference is not humongous and 2 hitsugaya can attack in all directions and doesn t need to see to do so ( same with byakuya for example)
I mean two of your 3 examples were of Tosen blind siding his opponents not really a great measure of his power. The only times we see him fight a proper battle he looses to Kenpachi badly (although he was possibly surpassing himself) and then Kamamura + Hisagi. The second of which kills Tosen by getting the jump on him despite being much weaker. Also there is a pretty good case that most of Grimmjaws Fraccion being some of the strongest of the Espada subordinate. All of them were long lived adjuchas previous to being made arrancar and of them 3 required Bankai to defeat. Barragan is the only other Espada with notable fraccion that can take on captain level fighters. Harribels are individually weak and only a real threat If they can summon their pet as a team. Personally I’d put Tosen in SS arc as the weakest of the captains and just before his death maybe on par with Histugiya. Which is pretty high praise as he is the only Captain to beat one of the top 3 Espada on his own as Harribel is saved by Wounderwiess. Tosen might claim to be stronger than all the Espada but his feats during the fight don’t back that up and he seems to overestimate his power after becoming an arrancar.
@marionarda2790 I like that take on it. I think bankai vs bankai, Hit got it in the bag. But maturity, being level headed, as well as (in my opinion) shikai vs shikai tousen could have the slighter upper hand with his unexplained abilities he used if used strategically. But you're kinda making me rethink my previous opinion 👍🏾
@BigHeadClan I agree of some of the points you made. Not much feats to go off of and we've seen way more feats from Hit then most Captains honestly. But for example, not once did I think Unohana or Ukitake were weakest Captains during SS arc because I didn't see feats from them. There's a way ppl carry themselves, talk, act, make judgments, experience etc that add into what makes a character and I just always felt Tousen had more experience and intellect then Hit, especially keeping his emotions in check bar the weird way Kubo made him just switch up when he hollowfied. Like i think Tousen would have done a better job against Gin if he was in Hits place due to him not letting his emotions get to him(i forgot, i cant blame him for going crazy for finally getting eyesight for the first time, i would have went nutts lol). But I can't remember if this was based off just prowess rather than overall, been a while and kinda don't feel like rewatching the vid, forgive me Tommo 🙏🏾. I honestly liked everything about Tousen bar the Hollowfied part. But I appreciate the point of view, I like to try to look at things at as much angles as possible and def didn't think about the stuff you mentioned when first posting
@@mr.otakubaka4169 well it also depends on where this 1vs1 happens . Hitsugaya cannot use his powers (tenso jurin ) in the world of the living for fear of freezing up the place . Which is why he performed way less well against Shawlong or Luppi than against the much stronger Hallibel or Gin when he could use his powers.
FYI, prodigal and prodigy mean very different things. Prodigal means ‘to squander, drive away’. Usually used in reference to the biblical parable of the prodigal son, so someone once lost returning home and being forgiven. Prodigy is meant as the antonym of Prodigal in many ways. A prodigal wastes, a prodigy has something in abundance (usually talent). Prodigy is what you’re looking for for Toshiro and Gin.
Like this video, my dude!! but uhh, on a different note, I was wondering what your thoughts are on who would fill in for squad zero if they all suddenly died. Like, who do you think replace them. Which captains would be asked to join such a squad i wonder.? I have no idea if you have done a video on that. If you have, please direct me to that!! 😮
Start doing blood lines in bleach and explain how they may inherent or be weaker compared to their parents !!!!! I would love that video. Imagine a Chad blood line where his son would be weak with a human, but with soifon, an assassin with skills is born. Example
The everything but the rain gotei also doesn't have Renji as byakuya's vice captain, im pretty sure he just got promoted when rukia left for the world of the living.
I think Unohana would have gone all out against Aizen if she wasn't aware of his Shikai's ability, especially when Yamamoto got trapped [if she was in fake Karakura town instead of Hueco Mundo]
If we are taking just the Gotei 13, id say EBTR. However the current Gotei 13 has more resources in that of allies. They got 3 very strong Espada which is kind of like another squad and also Yoruichi and Kisuke still around. Id say the biggest downside is that with Unohana gone, their healing capabilities went down the drain because I doubt Isane is anywhere near her. Yama is a major loss too but his way of running things was getting very stagnant compared to Shuisui.
Seeing that Isshin was able to fight down Aizen, one with him would probably be quite strong. He himself could raise the overall combat power of the gotei 13.
What about a switch were you create a Gotei out of Quincy and Sternritten with Shinigami characters. If you want you can give Gotei Zanapktou to Quincy characters and all the known Shfifts to Gotei characters
I think the end of the story Gotei is lot stronger that people get them credit for. Yeah, they lost some heavy hiters, but the upgrades that a lot of captain's and vice captains get in TYBW makes up for that easly.
I think EoS Gotei goes to extremes with some really strong (Zaraki, Shunsui, Hitsugaya, Byakuya, Renji) and some really weak per now (Isane, Iba, Kensei, Rose, Lisa Soi-fon). Other Goteis seem more balanced.
I wonder what happened to Yaemada’s father from the previous group of captains? Shocking to see Yoruichi was his LT at the time, also is a captain allowed to step down from their position and pass it onto their LT or do they have to be removed by that joke central 46 or killed? Also It’s obvious the original 13 captains from so long ago was the strongest because back then it was the Wild West and only the strongest survive. They probably had a lot more problems and shit to deal with and not to mention they were all bloodthirsty heartless killers who were probably strict on those under them. Another thing I think that wasn’t mentioned was that Sasakibe (squad 1 LT) was one of the people back then killing Ywach people so he too was among the strongest although he haven’t been fighting for that long obviously lost his edge. Any group who acts the way they did with no regard for others living in a time like that would have to be that way in order to survive
Other way around. Omaeda's father was Yoruichi's VC. As for Captain's stepping down to let their VC take over, Ukitake was planning on doing exactly that with Kaien, going as far as to commission a haori for Kaien (that Rukia would eventually get).
In terms of individuals then yes, but in terms of progression and what not, byakuya and tikka after the royal palace solo half of the soul society arc 13.
i would sey shiba makes up for any differences in the vice captains. sure he is a lazy captain simularly to the captain of the 8th devision. but he is strong, not to the same lvl as the 8th devison captain but defenitly stronger than captains like soy fon (in my oppinion atleast) and hitsugaia at this point of the story. and he recognices that hitsugaia is a realy powerfull shinigami planing for him to take over the division once he retiers, dies or something else happens. and when it comes to the fight we see, shiba got wounded by aisen and company just before the battle startet with a sneak attack just to make the battle field more even. i would think the hollo would have been killed with a single swipe or close to that if he wasent wounded just before. we do see some of his strenght when he kills the grand fisher in one stroke once the fisher is starting to transform. and shiba dident have his power back for that long of a time at this point. (afther a period of 20 years!) he is also able to hold back the goo in that coridor with the cleaner etc for a long period of time showig he have massive amount of raishu so its not like he is weak there either. he would defenitly be stronger than hitsugaia and any changes of vice captains unless one was a hiden monster like the vice captain of the first devison.
It’d be cool to do some speculation on how the story would’ve progressed if Orihime actually betrayed Ichigo and the others to be with the Espada, I feel like it’d alter the course of the story drastically
Also thought about what it’d look like if Yamamoto died earlier in the story, preferably in the Arrancar arc. Who’d take the mantle? I feel like Shunsui wouldn’t accept it and it’d either go to Unohana, Ukitake, or Chojiro would step up. I’d like Ukitake or Chojiro just to see them do more, but Unohana being Captain Commander would also be insane and interesting
Was aizen a vice captain back when Yoroichi and Kiske were also captains. Cause if he's also still in as a VC with those 2 aswell thats arguably the strongest
I say EBTR is the strongest, i confused it with TBTP for a second. Even above the og Gotei mainly because of Aizen, Kenpachi, and Kisuke being in it.(3 of the 5 war potentials) Unohana was one of the strongest back then and she's weaker than possibly all 3 of them. I do believe the og's were more ruthless but being ruthless doesn't make you stronger. Aizen and Gin weren't shown as ruthless when they were captains(because they were undercover) but if they wanted to be they obviously could've been.
The point is that we don't know too much of TBTP Gotei (and previous ones), while we can't fully speak of end series Gotei. Overall SS Gotei is more explored and balanced, especially with lieutenants, even if most of captains were way weaker than in their final versions. Some were better than predecessors, not all, but we got the full picture and this asset was solid. TBTP Gotei is more or less in the same league, or could be even above, but in this case, we don't know all. Yamamoto, Unohana, Kyoraku and Ukitake were the same, Sasakibe too, Aizen was here as lieutenant, and have Urahara and Yoruichi was a huge bonus. Surely, Gin better than Rose, SS Zaraki than Kiganjo, while we can't say for Ginrei and SS Byakuya, and 10th captain was dead. These are the minus, aside of most of lieutenants capacity unknown, that make this version uncertain. As for end series Gotei, I can agree it could be the weakest one, even if we don't know all. Leaving aside Kyoraku, a good part of them heavily powerupped (Zaraki, Byakuya, Toshiro, Renji, Rukia, Mayuri, in some measure even Soifon), but losing Yamamoto, Unohana and Ukitake was a big blow (even Sasakibe), also not have Aizen, Urahara or Yoruichi in anymore marks a difference. Then, if half army is pretty strong, the rest not that much, and well... we don't expect Iba, Lisa and Isane to be monsters, same for a couple of lieutenants.
I think it's fair to say that Iba is at least as strong as Ikkaku throughout the series. They are good friends who spar together often. Iba's fighting ability is probably on par with Ikkaku (in order to have that level of respect from Madarame) while he is almost assuredly stronger in the other areas like Kido.
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Did the Soul Society Arc have a stronger version of the Gotei 13 than TBTP, TYBW, or any other time in Bleach? Let me know your thoughts and opinions down in the comments!
I think its strong enough to call it the strongest we know ... yet. The original Gotei 13 should have a massiv power div to the soul society Arc Gotei 13. Each original captain should be able to defeat several captains of the Soul society arc by their own. That would be very awesome
Completely disagree. Most of these characters are at their weakest at this stage. And multiple are so weak as to be killed by future threats or less (lookin at you cricket dude killed by vice hisagi)
In fact, the only cap/vice team that's at their strongest is the 1st and maybe 2nd.
I thought rukia is the vice captain of the 13th
Maybe after this, you'll make a gotei 13 with the 13 captains who you think are the strongest
The ultimate Gotei?
This would be sickk
It’s hard to compare without any feats of the OG captains outside of Unohana and Yama
@@harbinger794 he could still do it. All you have to do is exclude everyone who didn't have a proper battle in the manga or light novels.
Yes ! A great idea
I think it's often underrated how powerful Gin was. The guy toyed with a hollow ask, bankai Ichigo who had just received yet ANOTHER powerup. Plus his Shikai and Bankai while simple are deceptively powerful. Even without the one shot poison.
It's a shame we didn't get to see how much stronger Gin would have gotten in the TYBW.
He's strong. Even aizen stopped bankai ichigo sword with his bare hands. And people saying aizens avoiding zaraki. They forgot zaraki was beaten by shikai ichigo. Aizen doesn't recruit weakling, only the strong.
@@jasonrelech1020 zaraki is defo not weaker than shikai ichigo despite losing to it. But still, zaraki would lose to aizen pretty easily like everyone else.
Gin Ichimaru is my favorite character. Honestly I think Gin would've THRIVED in Shisui's Soul Society, Gin with his sneaky nature and ability to put morals aside for the sake of pragmatism and efficiency in completing the mission would've done well with Shisui's "Win at any cost." Mentality. I honestly think Soul Society suffered under Shisui without Ukitake to balance him out, they could've done with allot less deaths and TYBWA would've been a perfect opportunity to showcase squad 2 taking a counter stealth invasion of the Wandenreich with Gin and Soi-fon being the generals on that front I could see them taking Quincy territory.
except Gin hated the Gotei 13
he likely would've left had he survived.
@@BlackChapters He didn't hate the Gotei. He hated Aizen for what he did to Matsumoto and he wanted to be close to Aizen to kill him so he used the Gotei 13 as a means to an end to kill Aizen. If Aizen was written to have turned traitor after Ywach was defeated he would've went with him then too. Gin wasn't going to leave Soul Society as long as Aizen was in it.
@@SeviathTheHumanDrago Nah look again in the flashback for him
He hated the whole of the Soul Society
@@BlackChapters Nah, nothing in his Wiki says anything about him hating Soul Society, just Aizen for making Rangiku cry.
@@SeviathTheHumanDrago but the gotei now hates him for what he did . No way could Hitsugaya shinji or byakuya leave him alive
This wait for TYBW Part 2 feels longer than the 10 years I waited for part 1
You know this is coming. The previous you had written off as never happening.
@@RFDN0I never gave up
You should do a create your own Gotei 13. Like pick the person you'd want to be captain, lieutenant, and third seat out of every person that's ever been in that division.
I really like this idea!
The Gotei 13 had multiple shifts in power from pre timeskip to TYBW around No breaths from hell. I however am glad to see that they move into the next generation with new Shinigami captains and vice captains.
Hey, I just wanted to say y'all had the best Sakuraco segment. I like seeing content creators try the boxes out and I actually love the idea, but sometimes it comes off really cheesy or forced. You guys did great and made a wholesome moment out of the segment!
I love the sponsorship sections when both of you do the questions. 🎉
You're near 200k! So proud of you.
I've been waiting for another video like this
Loved the food arc with your special guest. Tokyo Treat and Sakura Co.
"If tomorrow you were to turn into a snake began devouring humans, if with that mouth you said, "I love you", would I be able to say, "I love you" the same way I do now?"
Idk if it's fair to count Gin and Aizen into the Gotei strength, since it's clearly implied (at least in Aizens case and by association Gins too) that they where sandbaging their combat skills and its unlikely that they would go full out when fighting for the Soul Society
I would think that if they were put in a "show Your full power or die" situation, they would most certainly go all out on their opponents. Of course I'm well aware that for Aizen to go 100% the danger would have to be almost incomprehensible.
@maciejgodzisz788 yeah the tybw would have had to happen early for aizen to fight seriously
well you could bribe this version of aizen with Kisuke's Hogyoku, he'll def put in the effort for that
Really curious what Aizen would have done if the Quincy invasion happened before his betrayal. Would he have tipped his hand about the truth of his zanpaktou?
The final battle indicates that Aizen never gained the ability to stop his own hypnosis so it's doubtful he would have revealed the truth while using shikai. It would become a relevant point if an opponent attempted to steal his 'bankai' when he wasn't using one (or we would discover that Aizen is a compulsive liar and was using bankai the whole time he was chiding people who were wondering when he would activate shikai).
He would have kept the facade and even used his defence of the Soul Society to, - Assuming Ichigo would have his presence there... Imagine Yhwach's invasion interrupting Rukia's planned execution, coming in before Aizen pretends he's dead and Ichigo drops in on the mess.- take up arms against the Quincies and use that has an excuse to actually get to the Reio's palace!
@@LadyMorgaine1976I don’t think that would have been smart for him to go to the royal palace at that point. He would have been beaten quickly. Think about it. By that point, he wouldn’t have gone through the metamorphosis with the hogyoku which means he would have been vastly outclassed
@@gammafrost But by then he might have had the unwilling help of other Shinigami, even if through the use of his Zanpakuto to somehow trick them into going up there with him.
Or he could just wait for Yhwach to kill the Reio, present himself as the saviour of Soul Society and "offer" himself to take on its place.
Anything is possible really...
@@gammafrost outclassed by who he beats everyone except ywach
Remembering that scene after the fight against Szayel Aporro... 5:33
Not sure if it’s fair to say nemu has the same capabilities during the ss arc, since the whole point of her character arc in tybw was to show that she had evolved over time and gained the capabilities as she grew, even if she technically did possess the same power inside all along (honestly kinda like kenpachi)
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Talking about the different iterations of the Gotei 13 made me think, how many large scale threats have they faced between their original war against the Quincy and the start of the series? It seems like the relatively short amount of time from the Soul Society arc to the end of the series accelerated the strength growth of so many captains/vice captains compared to their predecessors who spent centuries to be as strong (or not even as strong) as the EoS captains
I'd say between the constant Hollow fighting and obsessive training they did become formidable but complacent. More importantly the last confrontations with the Quincies where one sided slaughters of mostly non combatants, this also explains why many Shinigami are either fight obsessed or alcoholics. The Quincies learned from the last experiences and prepared accordingly.
Ultimately they were strong but in the end the Quincies showed that it was a facade. However now in the postwar era Shunsui has initiated a series of reforms that make it far easier to join Gotei 13 including removing the old exclusionary, highly selective recruitment policies while installing a fast track internship first step to join program alongside prioritizing true skills over origins.
How did the Quinces show it was a facade?
@@mystic1360 They put them near collapse. A significant majority of Shinigami foots soldiers and officers were wiped out, thus forcing Shunsui to initiate these flexible, fast track recruitment and training policies. WDKALY confirmed that something like 50% of their total strength was wiped out in the fighting with extensive damage to Seiritei.
@@manuelacosta9463 Damn, that has got to be the most brutal damage they have suffered in their History
@@mystic1360 Indeed. They also suffered heavy casualties at the Academy, many new recruits and instructors were massacred and only the timely arrival and stand by Mashahiro alongside others preventing a 100% casualty count.
@@manuelacosta9463 50% of their total strength, or 50% or their total soldiers? Because I think that 50% of their total strength was wiped out when Yamamoto died.
You are so correct on the ’turn back the pendulu-arc'! just imagine If it was Shinjn & Aizen that went rogue together! How the f**k do you beat that combo? Everything is upside down and reversed… and when you realize it… you still have no clue that you are still in a illusion!! Thats f**ked up! 🤯🤯🤯😂😂😂
I just feel like the level of power that captains have at the end of the series outclasses everyone, like the power scaling goes crazy
Don't forget the 11th one of the only divisions to have multiple roughly lieutenant level individuals
And 13th has rukia
The turn back the pendulum grump is insanely strong
which one is the grump? 😂
@@Jackraiden500 group*
While it didn't get much focus, I feel that the fifth division under Aizen/Gin could potentially be stronger than under Shinji/Aizen but it's hard to say for sure
The one thing i think was missed on is the cohesiveness of the Gotei 13. The Gotei from the Soul Society arch is one who will not work together in almost any way, as we see in the Anime, where almost every captain has a totally different goal than another, and often are in direct conflict with one another, even to the point where many of the captains do not follow commands from their Leader Old Man Yama.
And so i actually struggle to see this group of highly powered, but fragmented Gotei doing much better, if not even worse in the TYBW than the one we saw go through that event.
the thing is, most of the strongest quincy fighters in the TYBW would be trivialized by gin and aizen, anyways.
@@SylvisNuvara but thats assuming those two, or Tosin, actually fight on the side of the soul society instead of using the invasion as their own chance to rebel, as they did in the first arch. And if three of the thirteen captains arent fighting on the side of the Soul Society, that is going to be much weaker.
If you think of the TYBW happening before ichigo got his powers, which is how im thinking of it, i think the Gotei does undeniably worse in almost every way.
I think another point to consider is the Gotei 20 years prior with Isshin may have also had Kaien alive at the time which would further bolster that version‘s strength
Kaien died 30 years before that
Kaien wasn't that strong ha
Your wife sounds like she should be doing ads in the radio. Truly a great asset.
I really think it depends on what you value more. If you want a more balanced Gotei 13, I would say SS or EBTR is the best iteration.
But, if you think having characters like Kenpachi, Toshiro, Byakuya, Renji and Mayuri at a way higher level makes up for some of the new untested Captains and Lieutenants, I could see why you would rather pick the Hell arc version.
I think a big point is that while Ukitake is supposed to be very powerful, we never really get a good idea of how strong he really is. Especially when compared to Yama, Unohana and Shunsui, who are all clearly shown to be absolute powerhouses. So until we get to see Ukitake's full potential, I would say Rukia makes for a more impressive 13th Division Captain, especially when she has had 12 years to master her Bankai.
Excellent point . Off topic think the fifth Royal rules hell or is apart off it would neat and story expanding though.
I'd say from a military standpoint, the Gotei under Shunsui is vastly superior to any iteration that Yama would have. Shunsui would do everything he can, use any tactic to win. Yama would never have unleashed Aizen against the Quincy.
Shunsui's the scarier type of general. He may not rival Yama's raw power but his cunning and military prowess makes me look at him as this type of leader who thinks "let's try my crazy idea, I think it works" and this approach is just unnerving both for the allies and enemies
Honestly, Yama does not do well when on the backfoot. That said his immense power means he normally is at worst on equal footing or the one to be overcome.
Are we not talking pure DC and AP? Not narratives and theories
6:22 kenpachi’s katana always bothered me here, I get his blade is supposed to be battle worn and chipped down. But how are some parts poking out wider than the habaki?
You could chalk that up to leaking reiastu. Kenpachi obviously isn't going full blast, but at least some of his constantly leaking reiastu would be leaking out of the sword blade making it grow.
When you were talking about the tenth squad I thought you were gonna mention the fact rangiku didn't have a large or significant portion of her power which would render he weaker or temper her potential, which is a crazy thing to think about since shes a lieutenant
Love the videos
Tough for me to really say 100%. Yamamoto having his bankai where it was, presumably, and Aizen even pre-hogyoku very likely puts the SS arc at their peak...but Yoruichi and Kisuke were very much far superior to their replacements and that loss in power should be taken into account. Then Isshin leaving. I would like to think that SS Aizen wasn't enough to make up for their loss even with Gin being stronger than most probably gave him credit for back then too. Byakuya seems like he could be stronger than Ginrei but we don't really know I guess. I'd say it's close between SS arc and TBTP's team. Yama, Unohana, Shunsui, and maybe Ukitake (who just gets weaker as the years go) are the only constants in power. The revolving cast is what decides this and I think Yoruichi and Kisuke are just overall stronger than a majority, if not all, of those that came after barring Aizen 1v1 and Kenpachi at the end.
Yoroichi n Kisuke are the most overrated captains. Ppl Give them battle IQ while their fight r are actually extremely lame.
@@samanasukesamada Yoruichi maybe in "certain department" but not Kisuke as he is literally one of the 5 war potential and contribute overall the most in the war beside pure fighting power
@@samanasukesamada we've seen what both captains can do. Kisuke likely bodies everyone besides the 4 constants and EoS Byakuya and Kenpachi most likely. And for the latter you just have to outlast him until he beats himself for now. Yoruichi literally just owns people bare handed without the use of even shikai. It'd be pretty stupid to think her sword skills are anything less than equal but that's my biggest gripe with how Kubo did her character. We'll never know the true extent of her ability.
Honestly, I think SS arc wins the top 3 pure shinigami in the series that we have seen so far I think in order of strongest to weakest Yama Aizen Gin you can say a lot about Gins strengths and weaknesses but unless u can stop a one shot abilty or be like yama and just out perform in all categories i think you lose to gin in most situations so that mean SS arc has the 3 strongest shinigami even considering EOS captains while i do think Yoruichi is a big improvement over soifon I dont think she developed her shunko yet and idk where her zanpakto is im go with the theory its a secret of her family and for kisuke Im really big fan and in a 1 v 1 he is stronger then Mayuri but tbh he can never actually beat Mayuri hes too slippery man made himself near immortal without a hogyoku and no matter what anyone in the series says Mayuri is the smartest character in the series yeah Kisuke created half of the hogyoku but got to remember it was never compelte without aizen but Mayuri did something no one else in the series has done he found a way to create a soul which no others have shown the abilty to do so purely from a scientific stand point i dont think its a downgrade and he can make up his combat ability with his weird shit.
@@matthewsmith4483 I don't think even under the influence of the hardest of drugs on the planet would you see me say Gin is above Unohana, Shunsui, or Ukitake. (who I guess doesn't count as pure shinigami maybe?) I can respect your opinion on Mayuri but I can't put him above Kisuke in any regard. Especially here where it's strength/power based and Mayuri doesn't rival him there imo.
If you count Mr. Head Captain and Azien it is by far the strongest Gotei 13 ^^
I think we need some new characters or more abilities because I seem to notice that enemies have that bit of a ridiculous none physical, there are some that's why I like mayuri, less physical but takes the intelligence to out wit. Kenpachi will always be my favourite.
She didn't seem too incredibly pleased that you immediately knew Rangiku's zanpakuto release call 😂
This video makes me want a follow up of what batch of vice captains are the strongest. Anyways, I think the TBTP era Gotei is the strongest. It has every single major powerhouse (albeit some weaker back then) that everything in the future has, as well as some others. Despite what was later said about the original Gotei 13, the TBTP era has Urahara, Aizen, Yoruichi, Gin, Sasakibe, Yamamoto, Shunsui, Ukitake, Hikifune, and Unohana in their ranks although not all at captains. 5 of these characters are from the original Gotei 13 era, 1 is zero division worthy, and all should be with little argument on par with the original captains. If you figure that some of the weaker original Gotei and at quite the same level as these characters there's probably a good argument that just before TBTP the Gotei 13 are as strong as they've ever been.
This was a great video. I have a potential video idea, what if instead of just ranking the soul society captains, you rank all of the capital s in their strongest versions, apart from maybe Individuals we know close to nothing about such as iba, or kiganjo.
Mr Tommo while i agree with you about the tybw ending captains being the weakest form of the gotei 13. We also have to consider the partners they have now. Nel, grimmjow, the fullbringers, some quincy which are captain level, an overpowered Ichigo, also relaible guys like kisuke and yoruichi. So they have powerful partners that can rival the SS captains.
I think soul society gotei 13 was the strongest overall including the first set 1000 years ago. Azien and Yammato are outliers and tip the scale, I also think old Yammato is stronger than his previous self. Yuhawch stated his bankai has evolved. Also I don't see the old captains eclipising Ukitaka, Shunsui and Unohnana(consider her on par with her old self).
The strongest was right before the Hollowification incident. You still get Aizen and Yama and the old guard. But you replace Mayuri+Nemu with Urahara+Mayuri, essentially Hinamori with Hirako, Soifon with Yoruichi, and just gain the Kido Corps back. Losing Byakuya and getting a weaker Gin hurts, but the rest should be fine.
@@aidanklobuchar1798 nice analysis, if one compares just captains before and after, its one thing, but taking into account Aizen and Mayuri were in there in turn back the pendulum is really not a minor factor. Id still choose the soul society arc version I guess, because probably Mayuri and Aizen have gotten considerably stronger in those 100 years; also I'd say Kenpachi is stronger that his counterpart. But it's a though decision.
@@Ligatmarping I'm sort of assuming that Aizen hasn't gotten much stronger. Him feeling capped out was his stated motivation for developing his Hougyoku, which was a bit before TBTP. And even then he easily stopped some of Tessai's spells. Mayuri is certainly much weaker/less developed, but I'd take early Mayuri over SS Akon and/or Nemu..
@@aidanklobuchar1798 yeah youre probably right. I thought of Aizen fearing that limit as his motivation, not having reached the limit, but I'll take your point.
This looks so delicious… I’ll definitely try it and offer my feedback bro
I'd love to see a theory craft as to If/When Ichigo joins the Gotei 13, and if so, how strong would they look
Renji only got promoted a month before the series start. So Renji was probably still with the 11th division back when Isshin was Captain.
We know Reji wasn't vice captian during everything but the rain. We know in the subsitute soul reaper arc that he was just promoted.
We also don't know if Kaien dono was still around, do we?
@LigatMarping I believe he was dead, but I would need to double check. I believed he died around a similar time to when Renji and Co were overwhelmed by Hollows during their time in the academy.
@@RFDN0 yes probably, with Ichimaru yet being lieutenant, but I dont know if Kaien event was stated to be in that moment, Rukia has a time in his squad before it happened; I guess its unknown but probably he already died, yeah.
You two are adorable as always ! Jade cameo always approves
Also, when Kaien was alive this was the only time all the three known prodigies were active as higher ranking officers in SS.
Soi fon did manage to discover a technique that may have existed previously, but obviously she was never shown it nor had it explained to her or she wouldn’t think she’d created it. It also turns out that it’s basically the ultimate technique for someone in her position (nobody else in the division nor soul society as a whole use it or again she’d know what it was) that nobody bothered to explain.
It’s played as she’s naive and inexperienced but tbh that’s pretty damn impressive.
the more you look at the thumbnail.. idk those captains are pretty Вⷡuͧff
That cast in particular, each all of their powers revealed in and leading up to TYBW, it's a pretty scary group.
Just Yamamoto with both arms in Bankai simply isn't beatable. It doesn't matter what powers someone else has if they cant even exist anywhere near you without being erased from said existence.
@MrTommo... Please do a video of what would the 13Gotei look like if Toshiro was an old men leader of the 1st division, and Yamamoto was a child prodigy like Toshiro...
I think Aizen, Gin and Tousen has a similar type of dilema to them as Unohana. Yes they are strong, but would they actually fight for the Soul Society? At the time they were planning to betray the SS, and I think it very unlikely that, in case of some enemy attacking SS, they would react in a way that was actually beneficial to the SS. They might pretend to help, but really use the situation to weaken the Gotei or something...
I think that much more likely than Unohana not using her fighting ability in a crisis tbh. She has just put her violent ways aside, she hasn't actually forgotten who she were or has a split personality or something
He said Gotei 13 sooooo many times. It’s stuck in my head!
Deamn now I want to see a ranking of all the divisions throughout the years.
How about the best designed Captains or the ones with the most Drip
Thoughts on the vid. BTW, I'd love for you to possibly rank captains by Spiritual pressure, because I had a recent revelation from rereading TYBWA that Ukitake had the most Spiritual pressure in the SOUL SOCIETY. Look up him referencing his "sickness" to avoid spoilers on my comment.
I wonder if the stealth force would actually try to kill yoruichi since I thought shes still a princess and their job is to keep her safe?
the one negative thing I had about the arrancar arc is there was a perfectly good opportunity to kill off Omaeda and they didn't do it... what a shame.
"with two of the three smartest people as captains in this arc"... Me - so inferior to the prior gotei's level of intelligence as Kisuke was able to accomplish much more advanced things without either of them running anything lol
While I agree that there are a ton of unknowns with the final Gotei, I still think they are the strongest. Why? In short, they may have the most Hax of them all.
Two comparable Ice Bankai are busted. Who needs Ryu Jin Jakka, when you can have two opposites that can be utilized together or separately?
shunsui is looking more like his bankai than ever, and I'd argue that he would have better tactics than Yama as he (to me) is the most merciless of them all once pushed to that end.
Nozerashi and the ability to cut literally anything by a guy who can fight for weeks it seems.
Byakuya post Soul Palace training boosted his power significantly (whatever this really means in practice however. are is petals now bigger? unbreakable? what? ) while his Shikai got an upgrade closer to his old bankai.
additional bankai that exist after this period vs the SS arc is significant so it's interesting to me to see the SS arc being claimed to be the strongest since I am assuming that also means the extra bankai achieved here by the VC are not significant? Ikkaku, Renji, etc.
Downsides to this arc Gotei
Soifon is still sadly in charge of a squad yet can't kill one main opponent without assistance ( Barragon box, Urahara "Black pill") but that's a negative to every arch she's a captain. she does get stronger in the shunpo though?
Unknowns
Of course, Aizen isn't out of the muken.. Yet, but in around 18,799 years he apparently will be, and if there were a threat during this time, I assume he'd probably assist. I don't recall this but did Central 46 take time off his sentence for assisting the SS in killing Ywach?
Captains Lisa, Isane, and Tetsuzaemon both obviously have bankai (since they are captains and it's a requirement for all who gain a position outside of squad 11) but I don't want to add them as a weight just yet.
also.. would Ichigo just become a captain when he dies? will he die or age in any significant way, or will he just stop living in the meat suit and go be a future Gotei Captain at some point with orihime? I mean, Orihime doesn't ever have to die if she doesn't want to lol. she can just reverse time when she wants lol.
Yeah, idk if I agree with this, end of war arc goteis pretty cracked.
The like only question is... is it cracked enough to deal with Aizen and Yamamoto being gone?
I'd say yes. Aizen in the SS arc wasn't evolved yet, and he legit didn't wanna fight Kenpachi til he was. So I'd argue end of series Kenpachi with his powers unlocked alone probably over powers base aizen. And then add on shikai and bankai? Yeah.
Aizen seems to consider Kenny a tier above himself. Just like Yamamoto. And then add on Byakuya, and Adult Toshiro? I think the trio that fought Girard are strong enough to compensate for Aizen and Yamamoto.
And then look at how basically every other captain and vice captain got stronger too.
Ngl Yama with his bankai is soloing that trio.
@@br5073 Oh he definitely is. But, I still think that they're definitely comparable to him in overall strength. But Yama's bankai is just busted.
Well done Sir ;)
I pray that kubo not only continues and finishes the hell arc .. but I hope that gin gets major appearances . A few battles . All of that jazz. I couldn’t help but think of how ulquiorra and gin would’ve wrecked the sternritter . Perhaps not wrecked but they would’ve aided tremendously . Ulquiorra with his intelligence , cold calculations , and hollow reishi to combat the power craze of the sternritter . Gin would’ve gave almost all of them except jugram and Lille a fight for their money .
37:15 I am wondering, about the vice captains, is Kaien Shiba alive at this point ? If yes it would be another point for 'everything but the rain'...
Soifon's ruthlessness and strict/potentially lethal discipline in this time certainly compromised Squad 2's effectiveness, not just that they were facing Yoruichi. They showed no real initiative and where visibly stiff. Undoubtedly they subconsciously did not want to displease and risk the wrath of Soifon. That's the main problem with such a harsh authoritarian environment. I'm sure Yoruichi had a frank talk with Soifon afterwards showing her that it's far better to have actual comrades rather than expendable pawns, a reflection of her old command.
How rare it is that ruthlessness and strict discipline is actually a detriment...
3:40, to be fair to squad 11, you should consider Zaraki and Ikaku, not Yachiru ;)
Yachiru being lieutenant is more just because "Zaraki said that", not because of her power level.
But apart from that :)
While overall I'd agree with your assessment, I still think the massive boosts in power of some characters by the end of the series can alone make the last version comparable if not more powerful. But as a whole this group is definitely more well rounded and understood in scaling, so I can't argue your logic behind it
As for everything but the rain, youd gain Isshin as captain, but lose a lot with Kira, Momo, Toshiro, and Renji. At that point, Renji is still a seated officer in 11th division and likely still a bit weaker than Ikkaku. Unsure when Kira and Momo became lieutenants, or if they were even seated officers at that point. Kira might even be 4th division, as he spend time there as well. So gain a powerful captain, but lose Renji's bankai, and possibly Toshiro's as well...as he was a third seat at the time, having been a shinigami only 10-15 years.
You should do a video about Soul Society arc Gotei vs the first Quincy invasion
I don't know if you'll see this but,I just had a thought what would an interaction look like with aizen and the former members of his espada look like in the 1000 year blood war🤔
"So for fairness' sake...we're not counting those guys. Gettem outta here!" That line is hilarious. Also, I really love this idea being thrown around the comments of seeing your ultimate Gotei 13 lineup, and I'm including captains and vice captains as well in that. I think each captain is complimented very well by their second in command, and they wouldnt be the captains they are without those vice captains
Idk. I wouldn't put Tousen under Soifon or Hitsugaya pre TYBW. Hitsugaya was struggling against Grimmjaws lackeys to even cut him[i know, the limiters], while Tousen cuttin Grimmjaws hand off and putting him in his place. He took down Kensei before even becoming a captain while Soifon at the time was fangirling over Yoroichi. She did good against Baragan but that was mostly Hachi in my opinion whereas Tousen fought komomora and Hisagi and had them on the ropes
Tosen imo was stronger than ss hitsugaya ( could more easily defeat the same opponent ) but would lose to him because 1 the difference is not humongous and 2 hitsugaya can attack in all directions and doesn t need to see to do so ( same with byakuya for example)
I mean two of your 3 examples were of Tosen blind siding his opponents not really a great measure of his power.
The only times we see him fight a proper battle he looses to Kenpachi badly (although he was possibly surpassing himself) and then Kamamura + Hisagi. The second of which kills Tosen by getting the jump on him despite being much weaker.
Also there is a pretty good case that most of Grimmjaws Fraccion being some of the strongest of the Espada subordinate.
All of them were long lived adjuchas previous to being made arrancar and of them 3 required Bankai to defeat.
Barragan is the only other Espada with notable fraccion that can take on captain level fighters.
Harribels are individually weak and only a real threat If they can summon their pet as a team.
Personally I’d put Tosen in SS arc as the weakest of the captains and just before his death maybe on par with Histugiya.
Which is pretty high praise as he is the only Captain to beat one of the top 3 Espada on his own as Harribel is saved by Wounderwiess.
Tosen might claim to be stronger than all the Espada but his feats during the fight don’t back that up and he seems to overestimate his power after becoming an arrancar.
@marionarda2790 I like that take on it. I think bankai vs bankai, Hit got it in the bag. But maturity, being level headed, as well as (in my opinion) shikai vs shikai tousen could have the slighter upper hand with his unexplained abilities he used if used strategically. But you're kinda making me rethink my previous opinion 👍🏾
@BigHeadClan I agree of some of the points you made. Not much feats to go off of and we've seen way more feats from Hit then most Captains honestly. But for example, not once did I think Unohana or Ukitake were weakest Captains during SS arc because I didn't see feats from them. There's a way ppl carry themselves, talk, act, make judgments, experience etc that add into what makes a character and I just always felt Tousen had more experience and intellect then Hit, especially keeping his emotions in check bar the weird way Kubo made him just switch up when he hollowfied. Like i think Tousen would have done a better job against Gin if he was in Hits place due to him not letting his emotions get to him(i forgot, i cant blame him for going crazy for finally getting eyesight for the first time, i would have went nutts lol). But I can't remember if this was based off just prowess rather than overall, been a while and kinda don't feel like rewatching the vid, forgive me Tommo 🙏🏾. I honestly liked everything about Tousen bar the Hollowfied part. But I appreciate the point of view, I like to try to look at things at as much angles as possible and def didn't think about the stuff you mentioned when first posting
@@mr.otakubaka4169 well it also depends on where this 1vs1 happens . Hitsugaya cannot use his powers (tenso jurin ) in the world of the living for fear of freezing up the place . Which is why he performed way less well against Shawlong or Luppi than against the much stronger Hallibel or Gin when he could use his powers.
Seeing as we haven't seen enough about the 1st iteration (said to be strongest), then yes. Due to having Aizen and Gin alone.
I wouldn't say it's the strongest but it's the most well-rounded and balanced.
FYI, prodigal and prodigy mean very different things. Prodigal means ‘to squander, drive away’. Usually used in reference to the biblical parable of the prodigal son, so someone once lost returning home and being forgiven. Prodigy is meant as the antonym of Prodigal in many ways. A prodigal wastes, a prodigy has something in abundance (usually talent).
Prodigy is what you’re looking for for Toshiro and Gin.
Like this video, my dude!! but uhh, on a different note, I was wondering what your thoughts are on who would fill in for squad zero if they all suddenly died. Like, who do you think replace them. Which captains would be asked to join such a squad i wonder.? I have no idea if you have done a video on that. If you have, please direct me to that!! 😮
A fan idea would be what if 0 Division stayed dead and 5 Captains/Prior Captains would need to be chosen as the new Royal Guard.
I would match a vid of tommo& his fiance playing this eating game
Oafish right after boarish was such a funny drag. 💀
Completely forgot Iba was promoted into a captain lol
just before turn back the clock you had hikifune which is well above captain level too
Great video You're! I think You're giving gin too much credit hes definitely not dwarfing byakuya and kenpachi but rather on the same level
Start doing blood lines in bleach and explain how they may inherent or be weaker compared to their parents !!!!! I would love that video. Imagine a Chad blood line where his son would be weak with a human, but with soifon, an assassin with skills is born. Example
The sponsor section was unironically lit. The quiz was super fun!
Please make a what if the quincy invaded during this gotei lineup aizen included
The everything but the rain gotei also doesn't have Renji as byakuya's vice captain, im pretty sure he just got promoted when rukia left for the world of the living.
Ill point it put since i think no one has he casually has a $450 hollow Ichigo funko pop behind him, thats cools asf
Did you guys know that Sajin Komamura is actually the strongets Captain because he's my favorite and I love him.
I think Unohana would have gone all out against Aizen if she wasn't aware of his Shikai's ability, especially when Yamamoto got trapped [if she was in fake Karakura town instead of Hueco Mundo]
If we are taking just the Gotei 13, id say EBTR. However the current Gotei 13 has more resources in that of allies. They got 3 very strong Espada which is kind of like another squad and also Yoruichi and Kisuke still around. Id say the biggest downside is that with Unohana gone, their healing capabilities went down the drain because I doubt Isane is anywhere near her. Yama is a major loss too but his way of running things was getting very stagnant compared to Shuisui.
Seeing that Isshin was able to fight down Aizen, one with him would probably be quite strong. He himself could raise the overall combat power of the gotei 13.
Aizen stomps
@@Filialbertogarcia🤡
What about a switch were you create a Gotei out of Quincy and Sternritten with Shinigami characters. If you want you can give Gotei Zanapktou to Quincy characters and all the known Shfifts to Gotei characters
I think Renji wasn't a vice captain 20 years ago, but Isshin might still make up for it depending on the abilities of Renji's predecessor.
I think the end of the story Gotei is lot stronger that people get them credit for. Yeah, they lost some heavy hiters, but the upgrades that a lot of captain's and vice captains get in TYBW makes up for that easly.
I think EoS Gotei goes to extremes with some really strong (Zaraki, Shunsui, Hitsugaya, Byakuya, Renji) and some really weak per now (Isane, Iba, Kensei, Rose, Lisa Soi-fon). Other Goteis seem more balanced.
They aren't weak, it's just that Yama, Aizen, and Unohana were THAT strong.
Losing gin was the biggest blow of all
I wonder what happened to Yaemada’s father from the previous group of captains? Shocking to see Yoruichi was his LT at the time, also is a captain allowed to step down from their position and pass it onto their LT or do they have to be removed by that joke central 46 or killed?
Also It’s obvious the original 13 captains from so long ago was the strongest because back then it was the Wild West and only the strongest survive. They probably had a lot more problems and shit to deal with and not to mention they were all bloodthirsty heartless killers who were probably strict on those under them. Another thing I think that wasn’t mentioned was that Sasakibe (squad 1 LT) was one of the people back then killing Ywach people so he too was among the strongest although he haven’t been fighting for that long obviously lost his edge. Any group who acts the way they did with no regard for others living in a time like that would have to be that way in order to survive
Other way around. Omaeda's father was Yoruichi's VC.
As for Captain's stepping down to let their VC take over, Ukitake was planning on doing exactly that with Kaien, going as far as to commission a haori for Kaien (that Rukia would eventually get).
Had me nervous when he hadn't talked about Isshin.
In terms of individuals then yes, but in terms of progression and what not, byakuya and tikka after the royal palace solo half of the soul society arc 13.
i would sey shiba makes up for any differences in the vice captains. sure he is a lazy captain simularly to the captain of the 8th devision. but he is strong, not to the same lvl as the 8th devison captain but defenitly stronger than captains like soy fon (in my oppinion atleast) and hitsugaia at this point of the story. and he recognices that hitsugaia is a realy powerfull shinigami planing for him to take over the division once he retiers, dies or something else happens. and when it comes to the fight we see, shiba got wounded by aisen and company just before the battle startet with a sneak attack just to make the battle field more even. i would think the hollo would have been killed with a single swipe or close to that if he wasent wounded just before.
we do see some of his strenght when he kills the grand fisher in one stroke once the fisher is starting to transform. and shiba dident have his power back for that long of a time at this point. (afther a period of 20 years!) he is also able to hold back the goo in that coridor with the cleaner etc for a long period of time showig he have massive amount of raishu so its not like he is weak there either. he would defenitly be stronger than hitsugaia and any changes of vice captains unless one was a hiden monster like the vice captain of the first devison.
It’d be cool to do some speculation on how the story would’ve progressed if Orihime actually betrayed Ichigo and the others to be with the Espada, I feel like it’d alter the course of the story drastically
Also thought about what it’d look like if Yamamoto died earlier in the story, preferably in the Arrancar arc. Who’d take the mantle? I feel like Shunsui wouldn’t accept it and it’d either go to Unohana, Ukitake, or Chojiro would step up. I’d like Ukitake or Chojiro just to see them do more, but Unohana being Captain Commander would also be insane and interesting
Was aizen a vice captain back when Yoroichi and Kiske were also captains. Cause if he's also still in as a VC with those 2 aswell thats arguably the strongest
Oh and what about the version of the Gotei with the Kenpachi with the broken bankai? Not sure if it was canon tho
I say EBTR is the strongest, i confused it with TBTP for a second. Even above the og Gotei mainly because of Aizen, Kenpachi, and Kisuke being in it.(3 of the 5 war potentials) Unohana was one of the strongest back then and she's weaker than possibly all 3 of them. I do believe the og's were more ruthless but being ruthless doesn't make you stronger. Aizen and Gin weren't shown as ruthless when they were captains(because they were undercover) but if they wanted to be they obviously could've been.
The point is that we don't know too much of TBTP Gotei (and previous ones), while we can't fully speak of end series Gotei.
Overall SS Gotei is more explored and balanced, especially with lieutenants, even if most of captains were way weaker than in their final versions. Some were better than predecessors, not all, but we got the full picture and this asset was solid.
TBTP Gotei is more or less in the same league, or could be even above, but in this case, we don't know all. Yamamoto, Unohana, Kyoraku and Ukitake were the same, Sasakibe too, Aizen was here as lieutenant, and have Urahara and Yoruichi was a huge bonus. Surely, Gin better than Rose, SS Zaraki than Kiganjo, while we can't say for Ginrei and SS Byakuya, and 10th captain was dead. These are the minus, aside of most of lieutenants capacity unknown, that make this version uncertain.
As for end series Gotei, I can agree it could be the weakest one, even if we don't know all. Leaving aside Kyoraku, a good part of them heavily powerupped (Zaraki, Byakuya, Toshiro, Renji, Rukia, Mayuri, in some measure even Soifon), but losing Yamamoto, Unohana and Ukitake was a big blow (even Sasakibe), also not have Aizen, Urahara or Yoruichi in anymore marks a difference. Then, if half army is pretty strong, the rest not that much, and well... we don't expect Iba, Lisa and Isane to be monsters, same for a couple of lieutenants.
I think it's fair to say that Iba is at least as strong as Ikkaku throughout the series. They are good friends who spar together often. Iba's fighting ability is probably on par with Ikkaku (in order to have that level of respect from Madarame) while he is almost assuredly stronger in the other areas like Kido.