You nailed this perfectly. Great observation and reminded me of my journey with doing vocals over the last six years with Planet COOL! . Your are 100 percent right about just doing it. After 100 songs recorded in the last 6 years, you learn a lot about songwriting, vocals recording etc. And YES, doing it live is critical. I do live streams and as for what people way, who cares...Lemmy didn't give a crap what everyone thought either, that's my motto. You are nailing this and exposing the whole singing thing online.
I have a theory. And it kinda comes from something Bruce Dickinson said once. My theory is “sing like a baby. “ straight away babies come out crying . They aren’t. “Trying” to do it.. and yet listen to their range? And when people say “yeah but their throats etc are smaller so of course it’s high ..” I ask them to go Wahhh like a baby. And now to sustain that do the next thing babies do. Most baby’s have mum as their first word or mama or some varient.. it’s basically the same in every country. Why? Saying mum is basically going mmm with a supported sound in the middle the sound in the middle changes changes pitch But the mm stays the same .. there’s your support for the higher notes. If you want to go higher make the mm higher .. anyway I’m trying to type this on a small iPhone with thumbs like shovels do I’m probably not being clear.. but it’s helped me a bunch with my singing.
You're definitely on to something. The way rock in particular is presented to us - Layne Staley grabbing the mic stand, Dio pulling a warrior pose, Dickinson wielding a sword, Cornell hanging upside down from the rafters; all gives you the illusion that they're doing something superhuman that isn't available to us mere mortals; so, we push, shout, strain and struggle trying to reach their greatness, when in fact the key is to sing naturally and without force. Best - K
This is a great pep talk and your openness is inspiring and refreshing. I do wonder how many of the so-called natural singers got some informal "training" in the church. I cant imagine that Aretha or Ray Charles or Elvis or even George Jones didn't get some off the cuff advice from a sage old timer that opened things up for them they were adolescents.
My buddy and singer extraordinairre Danny Formica and I have had this discussion a few times. 60's singing was closer to Gospel, and most of 70's rock came from that background somewhat. However, 80's and onwards was less and less influenced by soul and gospel - so it's gotten further and further from what the voice does in a natural and visceral sense. So, you're kinda onto something there. No church for me though, thanks. K
It’s a high dimensional space that is taking shape over time as the muscles and muscle memory develop. Once we learn one path through we can learn others.
Everything is linked! Yes I always hated hearing all this head, chest, etc voice, for me they were qualities of one voice, and hen you learn to access the different qualities they sound a certain way, but there’s no real gap anywhere. If the voice breaks it simply means the quality in that range of your voice is not developed correctly, but it’s not a different voice as such.
The first singer that came to mind when you talked about confidence was Bon Jovi. It makes me feel so sad... Even Chris Cornell. I try to check the vowels that singers are doing live, and whenever I've searched Show Me How To Live, I feel pain in my throat just by hearing the notes. Maybe not being a natural singer is gonna help me preserve my voice for longer, because I found out what to do to reach those notes safely. Silver lining to everything.
The bit about vowels is sooooo true! My 30 minute session with you opened up my voice after YEARS of struggling, and now I think of my voice as one instead of chest vs head. P.S: Motörhead!! 🔥 Got myself an Ace of Spades tshirt very recently 🤘🏻
One of my favourites - obviously the 70's stuff, but also Shades of Two Worlds is a gem. I'm moving all of my coaching over to Instagram, so, you're welcome to leave a comment on one of the videos there about a song or line you're struggling with and I'll go through it for you. K
I've been singing since 2020, and posting singing videos almost the whole time. I agree that confidence is super important and that you can grow it by putting yourself out there. I'm not the best singer, but I am very confident in how much I've improved. It's funny looking back at some of the old videos that I felt pretty good about at the time and seeing just how bad I was😆. At the time though, the videos were the best I could do, and better than I could do before so I've never regretted posting them. I've always embraced that this is a process and have been confident that I will continue to improve until I'm good, so far the progress has been steady and my confidence has been growing steadily with it.🤘Also recently realized that my usable singing range has improved by more than 9 semitones by getting more adept with vowel modification and other linked singing processes, that has also boosted my confidence quite a bit👍. Still plenty of progress to made tho, digging the new channel Kegan
I think it's honestly probably a similar journey in some ways for them back then than we realize. By that i mean their just very practiced. Some probably just started really fooling with their voice younger too like Layne. So maybe they didn't go to a teacher maybe they didn't have RUclips but they obviously had records and listened to music with a passion which is probably the most important thing. They practiced with their bands. Probably helps to have a good ear for music sure. They practiced their signing to these songs and played for years likely before even getting fame. So just like for us these days it's just practice practice in a different way until finding their sound. So even if some sound a bit better from go or some learn faster they all sang and practiced plenty.
Nice for Voivod, they are from my home country. Like me they are native French Québecois. The Rose Tattoo you are mentioning is the band that sings nice boys ? I love that song.
I love that trio of records in the late 80's - Killing Technology, Dimension Hatross and Nothingface - the 90's stuff with snake was cool too, Angel Rat. I love their new stuff too, SUPER heavy and wild. Snake sounds 25 when he sings, but has to be at least late 50's - great singer.
@BVS - Foundation Vocal Have you thought about going back to singing closer to your natural spoken-voice and projecting it, utilising your knowledge to get that tone & that character. I really like your speaking voice, currently less so your singing voice. One is much more full, well rounded and one is characteristically flat by comparison. I am not a voice teacher of any kind, just a humble musician and your technical vocal abilities may far surpass my own. Even if this reads as a negative message, my intentions good and the results of this perspective may yield good results for you too. Thank you for this video, I love the topic. All the best, MJB in Liverpool, in Great Britain
Obviously. However, that 'character' and tone (aka Baritone) runs between E2 and E4 in my voice (the E4 has become more difficult past 40). Ergo, with that tone, it's physically not possible to sing with that 'character' beyond an E4, maybe pushed a little higher. That means no Alice in Chains, no Soundgarden, no Free or Bad Company - nothing I actually enjoy singing or want to sing, other than a few choice cuts by Type O Negative and Mark Lanegan and some goth rock I enjoy - hence the vocal technique channel rather than "look at my great singing voice" type channel. Tone is part of the reason WHY a singer is stuck in a certain range, or with a certain style, or certain limitations to their voice. If you hear a singer using a thicker tone in their higher range, say Danzig - they're likely a Tenor and would have no hope in hell of actually singing with that tone within the specified baritone range, hence the pointless fach classifications. Being that I'm not a tenor, I don't have the tone of one in my higher range - I'm in a different register to Bon Jovi when he is singing "low" for his voice, as an obvious example. Simply put, you don't like my singing voice - and that's completely fine, I believe I'll sleep well tonight. Perhaps you would enjoy this more than the coaching videos - ruclips.net/video/yoBAbLUM2ss/видео.htmlsi=A6ZB01ekDykBvFXN&t=46
Opinions and perspectives are never obvious. You never know what they are until a person choses reveal them. Opening your message "Obviously." is patronising and invalidating to me, why be disrespectful? Along with other comments unmentioned and being defensive saying, "I believe I'll sleep well tonight." This is disappointing and passive aggressive. Ironically I wrote the above message for your benefit. It is regarding vocal character and vocal tone(not pitch) or range so I don't know why you felt compelled to go off-topic and talk about all that. Your message implies to me that you have taken offence and message as if it were a personal attack. Respect is the keystone of communication.I believe I was respectful to you but you did not return that respect. @@FoundationVocalStudio
Explaining how my speech and lower tone is tied to register and range gives context to WHY I sing in a specific way when I'm singing outside this specific range, such as this video - it's absolutely on topic. Unless of course you just wanted to make the comment that my singing is "thin and characteristically flat", put a full stop on the conversation, then not actually discuss it with me because you know it's not actually a respectful way to speak to someone, no matter how you preface it? It's not a guitar tone, or a type of piano, I am literally the instrument - you're literally talking about me on a personal level, whether you realise that or not. I answered in the way I speak in these videos - I have returned your blunt honesty with as much respect as it was given, and the way I would respond if we were face to face after a live show. It's funny that online the commenter can be as honest and blunt as they like, but the responder is expected to temper their response with dignity and poise no matter what and how something is said, and accept it as a gift. When someone says something to the effect of "hey, no offence" - it's always followed by something they're aware is likely to cause some level of offence, they just don't want a response. Perhaps you could have asked me a question about my lower tone, or even why the tone shifts relate to the range, or if I have any videos singing in my lower range, or just about any question you could muster around this discussion - but no, it was simply the comment that my singing voice is "thin and flat" - which you expect me to take no offense to. I've been working at this professionally for almost 25 years now - you can understand how some offence may be taken when you make such a statement. Hence, why I followed it up by accepting you don't like my voice, and further explaining that it doesn't bother me/I actually take no offence despite how it came across. You're completely welcome to not like my singing - however, your comment is not a gift like you imply. Your comment is akin to a friend of mine who often says "you'd be so attractive if you'd just cut that hair off and wore normal stuff instead of the band shirts" or a comment my Wife once had about a dress she was wearing "that dress is SO lovely, it would really look great on someone taller" - no offense though, right? I'm sorry you've taken my response to heart, it's simply a direct reflection of how I perceive your comment, which is obviously all on me. Best - K
@@FoundationVocalStudio You’re not only misquoting and misunderstanding me but distorting my words to justify yourself behaving like this. Now emoting and being very melodramatic too. None of my messages to you imply they a gift. You seem devoid of empathy. Maybe just don’t reply next time or give a thumbs down. Save yourself the stress. In all sincerity sounds like you need some down time to relax. Take care.
" I really like your speaking voice, currently less so your singing voice. One is much more full, well rounded and one is characteristically flat by comparison." - definitely not misquoting you - my singing voice is flat, thin and not well rounded, going by this statement, yes @@darkhorse1985? You obviously just wanted to make the comment and not have a real conversation. Best - K
i have a question regarding a vowel🫥, in the song 'burning heart' by survivor he sings the word 'darkest' and it goes from E4 to C5 on the 'est' part....yet he's able to keep his voice thick, how is he doing that? ruclips.net/video/Kc71KZG87X4/видео.html around 2:50 mark
'Thick' isn't really how I'd describe it - there's a touch of screech on the high note, it's upper mix/head with some grind on it. Great singer, but, searching for 'weight' while trying to do this isn't going to get you there. Look at cry, support and your vowels for that sound. -K
@FoundationVocalStudio I hear that in a lot of singers like James Brown and African decent singers. 1 voice all the way up. Hence their hi screams are just their high every day voice with no breaks. You have achieved this now as I've noticed. I sometimes can other times cant
@@FoundationVocalStudio I have the impression that people from the USAmerican deep south tend to have easier access to the mix voice... Layne Staley had a bit of a "southern accent" thing going on when talking, which he brings in to his singing. I also noted Chris Cornell in interviews speaks naturally with focused vowell sounds and slight twangy nasality, and even Eddie Vedder has that boxy sound to his way of talking. Its like those natural singers just bring in peculiar elements of their talking maneurisms into their singing and it just works well in context.
@@rafaeljannotti3002 they're all northern accents - so, closer to Canada, meaning closer to French = naturally narrowed vowel in their accent = natural mid to upper mid range vowel colours.
I have someone in my family who is a fine opera singer. She sings without showing any effort. She seems to just inflate her lower body and let it deflate like a balloon. That is what I see. She probably does more like using her belly and muscles in that area.
![dying on high notes? AY is the way! [AH is NOT the LAW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LUnzjOHVu5o/mqdefault.jpg)
Great job communicating such a nuanced topic!
You nailed this perfectly. Great observation and reminded me of my journey with doing vocals over the last six years with Planet COOL! . Your are 100 percent right about just doing it. After 100 songs recorded in the last 6 years, you learn a lot about songwriting, vocals recording etc. And YES, doing it live is critical. I do live streams and as for what people way, who cares...Lemmy didn't give a crap what everyone thought either, that's my motto. You are nailing this and exposing the whole singing thing online.
Thank you so much, really appreciate your perspective and guidance. I am in the process of finding my own voice and this is very applicable. Cheers!
I have a theory. And it kinda comes from something Bruce Dickinson said once. My theory is “sing like a baby. “ straight away babies come out crying . They aren’t. “Trying” to do it.. and yet listen to their range?
And when people say “yeah but their throats etc are smaller so of course it’s high ..” I ask them to go Wahhh like a baby. And now to sustain that do the next thing babies do. Most baby’s have mum as their first word or mama or some varient.. it’s basically the same in every country. Why? Saying mum is basically going mmm with a supported sound in the middle the sound in the middle changes changes pitch But the mm stays the same .. there’s your support for the higher notes. If you want to go higher make the mm higher .. anyway I’m trying to type this on a small iPhone with thumbs like shovels do I’m probably not being clear.. but it’s helped me a bunch with my singing.
You're definitely on to something. The way rock in particular is presented to us - Layne Staley grabbing the mic stand, Dio pulling a warrior pose, Dickinson wielding a sword, Cornell hanging upside down from the rafters; all gives you the illusion that they're doing something superhuman that isn't available to us mere mortals; so, we push, shout, strain and struggle trying to reach their greatness, when in fact the key is to sing naturally and without force. Best - K
This worked wtf
Very informative and relatable!
This is a great pep talk and your openness is inspiring and refreshing. I do wonder how many of the so-called natural singers got some informal "training" in the church. I cant imagine that Aretha or Ray Charles or Elvis or even George Jones didn't get some off the cuff advice from a sage old timer that opened things up for them they were adolescents.
My buddy and singer extraordinairre Danny Formica and I have had this discussion a few times. 60's singing was closer to Gospel, and most of 70's rock came from that background somewhat. However, 80's and onwards was less and less influenced by soul and gospel - so it's gotten further and further from what the voice does in a natural and visceral sense. So, you're kinda onto something there. No church for me though, thanks. K
It’s a high dimensional space that is taking shape over time as the muscles and muscle memory develop. Once we learn one path through we can learn others.
Everything is linked! Yes I always hated hearing all this head, chest, etc voice, for me they were qualities of one voice, and hen you learn to access the different qualities they sound a certain way, but there’s no real gap anywhere. If the voice breaks it simply means the quality in that range of your voice is not developed correctly, but it’s not a different voice as such.
The first singer that came to mind when you talked about confidence was Bon Jovi. It makes me feel so sad...
Even Chris Cornell. I try to check the vowels that singers are doing live, and whenever I've searched Show Me How To Live, I feel pain in my throat just by hearing the notes.
Maybe not being a natural singer is gonna help me preserve my voice for longer, because I found out what to do to reach those notes safely. Silver lining to everything.
YES! It's a huge silver lining to struggle... but discover a better way.
The bit about vowels is sooooo true! My 30 minute session with you opened up my voice after YEARS of struggling, and now I think of my voice as one instead of chest vs head.
P.S: Motörhead!! 🔥
Got myself an Ace of Spades tshirt very recently 🤘🏻
If you dig Motorhead, check out my buddy from the UK - ruclips.net/video/lMPWljpr8hI/видео.html&ab_channel=ASOMVEL
@@FoundationVocalStudio subbed! I freaking love Motörhead 🔥
Would you consider doing a video on Gregg Allman's vocal? It would be great tobhear your assessment of his blues-rock approach.
One of my favourites - obviously the 70's stuff, but also Shades of Two Worlds is a gem. I'm moving all of my coaching over to Instagram, so, you're welcome to leave a comment on one of the videos there about a song or line you're struggling with and I'll go through it for you. K
I've been singing since 2020, and posting singing videos almost the whole time. I agree that confidence is super important and that you can grow it by putting yourself out there. I'm not the best singer, but I am very confident in how much I've improved. It's funny looking back at some of the old videos that I felt pretty good about at the time and seeing just how bad I was😆. At the time though, the videos were the best I could do, and better than I could do before so I've never regretted posting them. I've always embraced that this is a process and have been confident that I will continue to improve until I'm good, so far the progress has been steady and my confidence has been growing steadily with it.🤘Also recently realized that my usable singing range has improved by more than 9 semitones by getting more adept with vowel modification and other linked singing processes, that has also boosted my confidence quite a bit👍. Still plenty of progress to made tho, digging the new channel Kegan
Keep at it man!!
Thank You!! I love your channel!!
You continue to amaze me Kegan…great insightful perspectives, thanks!
Love your content. Always on point.
Amazing content as always man
Appreciate you!
I think it's honestly probably a similar journey in some ways for them back then than we realize. By that i mean their just very practiced. Some probably just started really fooling with their voice younger too like Layne. So maybe they didn't go to a teacher maybe they didn't have RUclips but they obviously had records and listened to music with a passion which is probably the most important thing. They practiced with their bands. Probably helps to have a good ear for music sure. They practiced their signing to these songs and played for years likely before even getting fame. So just like for us these days it's just practice practice in a different way until finding their sound. So even if some sound a bit better from go or some learn faster they all sang and practiced plenty.
"Tired of Man in a Box" lol 😂
You can use Audioslave - Gasoline to give the example of using vowels x mixed voice to reach those notes from now on 😎
I'm thinking weirder, Voivod, Pentagram, Warrior Soul and Trapeze ;) ha
@@FoundationVocalStudio imma check all of them out 🔥
I spent lots of time singing along to Wasp and Iron Maiden, now I'm learning how to do it without the bloody feel...
Nice for Voivod, they are from my home country. Like me they are native French Québecois.
The Rose Tattoo you are mentioning is the band that sings nice boys ? I love that song.
I'm working on a Voivod cover currently - Snake is one of my favourite singers!
@@FoundationVocalStudio
Cool. That guy has the same French accent then me.
Honestly I didn’t listen to Voivod since early 90s. Shame on me 😂.
I love that trio of records in the late 80's - Killing Technology, Dimension Hatross and Nothingface - the 90's stuff with snake was cool too, Angel Rat. I love their new stuff too, SUPER heavy and wild. Snake sounds 25 when he sings, but has to be at least late 50's - great singer.
@@FoundationVocalStudio back then I had war and pain, dimension hatross, and nothing face. Pretty old stuff. He’s 59 😜
War and Pain is brutal right! I love all the early 80's thrash/death stuff. We're not THAT far behind him ha
@BVS - Foundation Vocal
Have you thought about going back to singing closer to your natural spoken-voice and projecting it, utilising your knowledge to get that tone & that character. I really like your speaking voice, currently less so your singing voice. One is much more full, well rounded and one is characteristically flat by comparison. I am not a voice teacher of any kind, just a humble musician and your technical vocal abilities may far surpass my own. Even if this reads as a negative message, my intentions good and the results of this perspective may yield good results for you too.
Thank you for this video, I love the topic.
All the best,
MJB in Liverpool, in Great Britain
Obviously. However, that 'character' and tone (aka Baritone) runs between E2 and E4 in my voice (the E4 has become more difficult past 40). Ergo, with that tone, it's physically not possible to sing with that 'character' beyond an E4, maybe pushed a little higher. That means no Alice in Chains, no Soundgarden, no Free or Bad Company - nothing I actually enjoy singing or want to sing, other than a few choice cuts by Type O Negative and Mark Lanegan and some goth rock I enjoy - hence the vocal technique channel rather than "look at my great singing voice" type channel. Tone is part of the reason WHY a singer is stuck in a certain range, or with a certain style, or certain limitations to their voice. If you hear a singer using a thicker tone in their higher range, say Danzig - they're likely a Tenor and would have no hope in hell of actually singing with that tone within the specified baritone range, hence the pointless fach classifications. Being that I'm not a tenor, I don't have the tone of one in my higher range - I'm in a different register to Bon Jovi when he is singing "low" for his voice, as an obvious example. Simply put, you don't like my singing voice - and that's completely fine, I believe I'll sleep well tonight. Perhaps you would enjoy this more than the coaching videos - ruclips.net/video/yoBAbLUM2ss/видео.htmlsi=A6ZB01ekDykBvFXN&t=46
Opinions and perspectives are never obvious. You never know what they are until a person choses reveal them. Opening your message "Obviously." is patronising and invalidating to me, why be disrespectful? Along with other comments unmentioned and being defensive saying, "I believe I'll sleep well tonight." This is disappointing and passive aggressive.
Ironically I wrote the above message for your benefit. It is regarding vocal character and vocal tone(not pitch) or range so I don't know why you felt compelled to go off-topic and talk about all that.
Your message implies to me that you have taken offence and message as if it were a personal attack. Respect is the keystone of communication.I believe I was respectful to you but you did not return that respect.
@@FoundationVocalStudio
Explaining how my speech and lower tone is tied to register and range gives context to WHY I sing in a specific way when I'm singing outside this specific range, such as this video - it's absolutely on topic. Unless of course you just wanted to make the comment that my singing is "thin and characteristically flat", put a full stop on the conversation, then not actually discuss it with me because you know it's not actually a respectful way to speak to someone, no matter how you preface it?
It's not a guitar tone, or a type of piano, I am literally the instrument - you're literally talking about me on a personal level, whether you realise that or not.
I answered in the way I speak in these videos - I have returned your blunt honesty with as much respect as it was given, and the way I would respond if we were face to face after a live show. It's funny that online the commenter can be as honest and blunt as they like, but the responder is expected to temper their response with dignity and poise no matter what and how something is said, and accept it as a gift. When someone says something to the effect of "hey, no offence" - it's always followed by something they're aware is likely to cause some level of offence, they just don't want a response. Perhaps you could have asked me a question about my lower tone, or even why the tone shifts relate to the range, or if I have any videos singing in my lower range, or just about any question you could muster around this discussion - but no, it was simply the comment that my singing voice is "thin and flat" - which you expect me to take no offense to.
I've been working at this professionally for almost 25 years now - you can understand how some offence may be taken when you make such a statement. Hence, why I followed it up by accepting you don't like my voice, and further explaining that it doesn't bother me/I actually take no offence despite how it came across. You're completely welcome to not like my singing - however, your comment is not a gift like you imply. Your comment is akin to a friend of mine who often says "you'd be so attractive if you'd just cut that hair off and wore normal stuff instead of the band shirts" or a comment my Wife once had about a dress she was wearing "that dress is SO lovely, it would really look great on someone taller" - no offense though, right?
I'm sorry you've taken my response to heart, it's simply a direct reflection of how I perceive your comment, which is obviously all on me. Best - K
@@FoundationVocalStudio You’re not only misquoting and misunderstanding me but distorting my words to justify yourself behaving like this. Now emoting and being very melodramatic too. None of my messages to you imply they a gift. You seem devoid of empathy. Maybe just don’t reply next time or give a thumbs down. Save yourself the stress.
In all sincerity sounds like you need some down time to relax.
Take care.
" I really like your speaking voice, currently less so your singing voice. One is much more full, well rounded and one is characteristically flat by comparison." - definitely not misquoting you - my singing voice is flat, thin and not well rounded, going by this statement, yes @@darkhorse1985? You obviously just wanted to make the comment and not have a real conversation. Best - K
i have a question regarding a vowel🫥, in the song 'burning heart' by survivor he sings the word 'darkest' and it goes from E4 to C5 on the 'est' part....yet he's able to keep his voice thick, how is he doing that?
ruclips.net/video/Kc71KZG87X4/видео.html around 2:50 mark
'Thick' isn't really how I'd describe it - there's a touch of screech on the high note, it's upper mix/head with some grind on it. Great singer, but, searching for 'weight' while trying to do this isn't going to get you there. Look at cry, support and your vowels for that sound. -K
@@FoundationVocalStudio i look into it, thanks
Maybe some people learn to speak in that whole voice or mix voice from a baby learning to speak.
Yes, agreed - there's some people who naturally sit right in the middle, some body and some edge - they're what I'd call natural singers.
@FoundationVocalStudio I hear that in a lot of singers like James Brown and African decent singers. 1 voice all the way up. Hence their hi screams are just their high every day voice with no breaks.
You have achieved this now as I've noticed. I sometimes can other times cant
@@FoundationVocalStudio I have the impression that people from the USAmerican deep south tend to have easier access to the mix voice... Layne Staley had a bit of a "southern accent" thing going on when talking, which he brings in to his singing. I also noted Chris Cornell in interviews speaks naturally with focused vowell sounds and slight twangy nasality, and even Eddie Vedder has that boxy sound to his way of talking. Its like those natural singers just bring in peculiar elements of their talking maneurisms into their singing and it just works well in context.
@@rafaeljannotti3002 they're all northern accents - so, closer to Canada, meaning closer to French = naturally narrowed vowel in their accent = natural mid to upper mid range vowel colours.
I have someone in my family who is a fine opera singer. She sings without showing any effort. She seems to just inflate her lower body and let it deflate like a balloon. That is what I see. She probably does more like using her belly and muscles in that area.